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Author Topic: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...  (Read 20252 times)

PaulLowrance

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2005, 10:00:38 PM »
Where did the PE go if no dam?

Into KE in the form of heat.


Did it light Las Vegas?

No, the flowing water heated the environment.



By your reasoning Paul:
Say a 5 HP gasoline engine turning a generator.
Drawing a larger current off the generator cools the motor?
After all , the PE must come from somewhere.

No, you do not understand.? Drawing more current creates a strong back-force on the generator. If the gasoline motor is to maintain the same rpm then it must increase the gas flow to generate more power.
The PE game from the gasoline.



Time IS energy!

Incorrect. I clarified all your above points.? Time is not in energy units.? In your dam example the energy came from the PE of the water.? In the gas motor it came from the PE in gas.

People, there are a few in the FE community that have a deep understanding of physics.? IMHO they are our only hope to success.? As for the rest, please do every one a favor and study.

Paul

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2005, 12:09:47 AM »
Imagine that the 2 balls would be circle ball magnets.
Now the ball magnet which runs faster would be able to induce
bigger voltages in pickup coils.
Now we only need to find out, how also we don?t have
any drag back while the current in the coils flows.
If the faster magnet ball will have more drag back then all the
bigger voltage induction is also lost.

Regards, Stefan.

PaulLowrance

  • Guest
Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2005, 12:29:02 AM »
Now the ball magnet which runs faster would be able to induce bigger voltages in pickup coils.

The balls are traveling at the same speed.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2005, 02:30:23 AM »
No Paul,
the lower ball is travelling faster as it has more speed !

PaulLowrance

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2005, 03:23:47 AM »
No Paul,
the lower ball is travelling faster as it has more speed !

I looked at frame by frame and measured it with calipers.  They are traveling the SAME speed.

Offline terry5732

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2005, 03:26:06 AM »
The water behind the dam goes nowhere unless you release it.
Does it really have PE then?
It certainly has no KE while held.
When you generate electricity by releasing it, it has KE and the PE is released.
If you hold it , there is only theoretical energy.
While releasing flow from dam, ENTIRE water of resevoir IS MOVING - just SLOWER per cross section.
All the dam changes is time/rate behind it.



If you burn a given amount of gasoline, you get a certain amount of heat.
Burn same amount in motor and get same heat plus rotation.

PaulLowrance

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2005, 03:55:18 AM »
The water behind the dam goes nowhere unless you release it.
Does it really have PE then?

Yes.


It certainly has no KE while held.

Not on a macroscale.  I have no idea where you are going with this but there is energy in all matter-- E = mc^2


When you generate electricity by releasing it, it has KE and the PE is released.
If you hold it , there is only theoretical energy.

Yes there is.  It is called PE and it very real.  It is a cause from the gravitational force pulling on the water.  That is the PE.



While releasing flow from dam, ENTIRE water of resevoir IS MOVING - just SLOWER per cross section.
All the dam changes is time/rate behind it.

The energy does not come from the time dimension.  By means of time the water may flow and generate energy.  Just as by means of the ground / floor the water may flow over the ground and generate energy, but that does not mean the energy came from the floor.  The energy did not come time.  It came from the PE-- the distance and the force of gravity on the water.



If you burn a given amount of gasoline, you get a certain amount of heat.
Burn same amount in motor and get same heat plus rotation.

No offense but I can only suggest to you that you study a lot more.  You are passing around incorrect information to people and that has a consequence.  To clarify your problem I hope you study this ->

If you burn the gas in motor and prohibit the motor from turning then the motor will get a lot hotter than if you allow the motor to turn.  So right off the bat you are incorrect.  When gas burns in a motor, the cylinder chamber volume expands by magnitudes.  As you know, this is caused by the piston moving up and creating more volume.  In basic thermodynamics they clearly teach and should demonstrate that as gas expands it gets colder.  Additionally, after the cylinder chamber has expanded to a certain degree, then the exhaust valves opens and the gas expands a lot more to escape and then the piston pushes the rest of the remaining gas out of the chamber.

Truly I hope that helps in some way, eventually.

Sincerely,
Paul

Offline rensseak

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2005, 02:55:08 PM »
You look at this one. I hope it make more clear!

http://www.hcrs.at/VIDEOS/KUGELA.MPG

PaulLowrance

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2005, 03:41:55 PM »
Dear rensseak,

Thanks for posting that.  I hope Stefan will now see that both balls are moving the same speed at the end.

Sincerely,
Paul

Offline rensseak

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2005, 05:20:32 PM »
But the way through the hollow is longer and nevertheless the ball is faster at the aim. :o

PaulLowrance

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2005, 06:38:42 PM »
But the way through the hollow is longer and nevertheless the ball is faster at the aim. :o

That video just confirms it.? All that matters is the ball travels at same speed while at the same height.? The ball is faster when it falls because it gains KE but loses PE.? To loop it then the ball needs to end at the same height it started.? So when the ball goes back up it loses its KE and gains back the PE resulting in ~same velocity.

Sorry, no FE or OU.? This is as clear as it gets in physics.? For the people who cannot get this either need to seriously seriously study basic physics or I say you are trying to cause noise in the FE community to distract and delay any possible legitimate FE machine.

Offline rensseak

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2005, 08:52:41 AM »
For me it seems that the Ball with longer way is accumulating the gravity, thats why he is faster at the end.

So what is wrong with it? If you build it so that both balls are at same time at the end one ball will be in higher position. And if you repeat it, slowly one ball comes further more highly.




Offline hartiberlin

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2005, 10:58:33 AM »
Dear rensseak,

Thanks for posting that. I hope Stefan will now see that both balls are moving the same speed at the end.

Sincerely,
Paul

Yes, the same speed, but the first ball is first at the end, cause there is a time shift
won through the faster speed when it went down.

Offline rensseak

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2005, 01:36:46 PM »
Quote
Yes, the same speed, but the first ball is first at the end, cause there is a time shift
won through the faster speed when it went down.

Right, but the other question is, why the ball dont lose the time shift again, against the gravitiy, when it went up?

rensseak

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: 2 Balls on slope, one is faster...
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2005, 01:50:18 PM »
Well. it just is braked to the same speed again, but as it was already faster during one
time the offset of the location is still there.

Regards, Stefan.