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Author Topic: Quad Pancake Coil  (Read 628 times)

Offline ALVARO_CS

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Quad Pancake Coil
« on: February 12, 2023, 06:01:25 PM »
hello F
As you invited me to post here, here I go.

First of all the context:
you posted in the thread "Anonimous Schematic" reply #5 : So I wound 2 pancake coil layers like the diagram shows with some scrap coaxial cable.    Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj0UUSLB59E
All in reference of diagram posted by Tomd in post #1.

Your video and the diagram swarmed in my brain  and I at last draw somethig to clarify myself (and I hope yourself too)
As I see it would be almost impossible to build it in such a way. - Fig3 is an enlargement of the central drawing of Fig 1

In this post only the diagram will be analyzed
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 01:35:09 AM by floodrod »

Offline ALVARO_CS

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Quad Pancake Coil
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2023, 07:04:01 PM »
hello F
This post is also to clarify the previus.

I think that a pankake coil made with two wires (type Tesla bifilar) is a different thing than made with coaxial wire.

This is not to criticize your video, which has its own merit, but to clarify the subject.
As well a pankake coil made with a double wire (like the speaker wire winded in vertical)  ::::::::  :::::::

I bring your attention to a diagram showing the Tesla series bifilar pankake coil  as it would be of benefit for all


Thank you

Cheers
Alvaro
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 01:35:32 AM by floodrod »

Offline floodrod

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Re: quad pancake coil
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2023, 07:49:03 PM »
Thank you for bringing this up. I am intrigued to learn more about this coil. You are right coaxial cable is not the same at all, the wires aren't side by side. And furthermore the coaxial cable has steel inside of it which adds all types of magnetic forces.

I did wind about four other of these pancakes trying to replicate exactly as the drawing shows. I will post some pictures tonight when I get home.

These pancakes seem like they do not buck, and they could certainly run a pulse motor pretty easily. They exhibit a North and a south when powered with direct current.

It seems these pancakes cause the magnetic field to grow from the outside in on one side, then from the inside out on the other side. Then it loops back into itself and repeats.

I am not sure what the benefit of it is yet, but The scope show some peculiar behaviors.

I will try to get some basic videos up later demonstrating some of it.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2023, 01:35:57 AM by floodrod »

Offline floodrod

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Re: Quad Pancake Coil
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2023, 02:53:23 AM »
Thanks for your patience..  I can not get a picture of mine because I have 2 taped together, and un-taping may ruin them.

here's how mine are.

Lets reference your Tesla bi pancake pic.  Where the red and black wires are extended in the center, lets pretend those are still solid and once they reach the center, they just keep coiling in the same direction.  Just on the 2nd layer, they go from inside out.  Now we have 4 outside wires only.  So we tone them, and black to red.

Another way to look at it, lets take the quad pancake and extend it out like a Slinkey.  We now have 2 cones like the image- attached at the apexes.  Red goes from outside to inside, then when it reaches the center the red starts the 2nd layer going from inside to outside. Once complete, it loops back and starts the process again.

It is possible I am viewing it incorrectly, but this is how I sorted it.  I can't say for certain, but I think when a magnetic field grows from outside in and inducts into an identical coil, the other coil will induct from inside out to try to block and counteract the flux change.  So my brain gets twisted a little trying to figure out the advantage of inducting out to in then in to out all in 1 coil.  I think something interesting is happening between the layers also.  I think between we have 2 opposite poles together affecting each other, but growing from opposite directions.

Maybe something like---  First pancake energizes and establishes a magnetic field. Current enters second pancake and starts growing.  First pancake sees 2nd pancake magnetic field grow so inducts from 2nd pancake as it grows, but since 2nd pancake is growing from inside out, first inducts from outside in, which happens to be the same direction that current was input. So the very act of the coil trying to stifle out the flux change results in the the coil self-amplifying.

I am probably not correct on my theories, but my twisted mind sometimes has twisted logic.

Online ovun987

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Re: quad pancake coil
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2023, 03:16:22 AM »
Thank you for bringing this up. I am intrigued to learn more about this coil.

When you get time check out Master Ivo's work with the bifilar pancake coil

https://www.youtube.com/@MasterIvo/videos