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Author Topic: well engineered motion into electricity device  (Read 21232 times)

gravityblock

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2016, 08:24:21 AM »
Well, I suppose that I can play Darth Vader too just for the psychotic MIB agent role playing fun of it.

Pasting my posting on Revolution Green here:

It is interesting but don't count your chickens yet.  It doesn't make sense to put one on a truck because the energy it would harvest would come from the diesel fuel you put into the truck.


...
.......

Tell that to the dead trout that adopted a swaying movement in the vortex street and was drawn upstream while it was tethered on a line to an object flowing in water.  Put this concept on a truck, and the truck could be propelled forward by the vortices created by a vortex structure as it encounters an increase in air resistance until the velocity is reached at which synchronicity of the system is possible.  The energy it harvests to further propel the truck comes from the creation of vortices as it moves past the air, and not from the diesel fuel put into the truck.  The  energy to propel the trout upstream didn't come from the dead trout itself.  Same thing should be for the truck example.  Only a small amount of energy is required for huge accelerations and to maintain a uniform motion or constant velocity.  This is almost a self-sustaining system.  This phenomenon naturally occurs throughout nature and doesn't break any laws of physics.

Gravock

conradelektro

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2016, 08:35:51 AM »
Vortex bladeless turbines wobble to generate energy.  The Vortex bladeless turbine supposedly takes advantage of the wind's swirling motion, which generates energy from the repeating pattern of vortices, known as the Kármán vortex street, and are generated as the air separates to pass by a blunt body, such as the Vortex structure itself (see image below).  Incorporate the WITT gear into the bladeless vortex turbine, or into other similar devices.

http://www.vortexbladeless.com/index.php the web site of Vortex Bladeless

May be the blade-less Vortex tube inventors can come up with a special alternator a bit less mechanically involved than the WITT gear.

http://www.vortexbladeless.com/blog.php
From this web page:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the last months we have been optimizing Vortex in many different ways:
 
 1.- The tuning system to change the natural frequency of oscillation through magnet repulsion.
 2.- We optimized the generation system through different alternator designs... now we have a good one that we can't share it because the IP process.
 3.- We changed a bit the geometry to harvest as much energy as possible.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like the blade-less Vortex inventors need more time to optimise the design of the tube and especially the design of the alternator. Two different skills, one is material science for the tube and the second is electrical engineering for the alternator, are required. Not an easy task.

It is a great idea and could be in the end a wind generator with a reasonable cost. A three meter high tube with an output of 100 Watt would be a great device charging a big 12 V battery (200 Ah) every 24 hours if there is some wind. Enough for a trailer home or a cabin in the wilderness with a few LED lamps, portable (satellite) phone charging and a tablet PC.

Greetings, Conrad

gravityblock

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2016, 11:18:50 AM »
Imagine a building on the seashore.  You have solar panels on the roof and a WITT wave power installation on the shore.  Which system gives you more bang for your buck?  Obviously this is an over simplified example but my nose is leading me towards the solar panel installation on the roof.  For example, the solar panel installation, just the installation costs, might be 1/100th the cost of the wave power installation if not more than that.  No moving parts vs. these big gyrating floats and huge gears and clutches and power couplings to generators, and on and on.  That sounds like very low maintenance vs. high maintenance and relatively low cost to relatively high cost to me (No matter what they are claiming about the low maintenance.)

There's no need for big gyrating floats.  An array of Vivace converters can be placed on the floor of rivers and oceans.  Below is an artist's illustration, by Omar Jamil, depicting an array of VIVACE converters on the ocean floor.  Vortex power is a form of hydro power which generates energy by placing obstacles in rivers/oceans in order to cause the formation of vortices which can then be tapped to a usable form of energy such as electricity. This method is pioneered by a team at the University of Michigan who call the technology VIVACE which stands for Vortex Induced Vibrations Aquatic Clean Energy (patent pending through the University of Michigan).  The company Vortex Hydro Power has been created to commercialize the technology. This technology has 10–20 years life span which meets life cycle cost targets.  The vortex hydro can generate power 24/7, unlike solar.  Integrate WITT into the Vivace converters.

Gravock

lancaIV

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2016, 02:18:58 PM »

.......[/size]It is a great idea and could be in the end a wind generator with a reasonable cost. A three meter high tube with an output of 100 Watt would be a great device charging a big 12 V battery (200 Ah) every 24 hours if there is some wind. Enough for a trailer home or a cabin in the wilderness with a few LED lamps, portable (satellite) phone charging and a tablet PC.[/size]Greetings, Conrad

                                                                     low-e equipment

LED: http://www.osmatech.net/led.html
fridge: Kenmore 30 W  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHN6iTMtvM  alternatively: http://mtbest.net/chest_fridge.html
power saving idea functional : ?
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20070201&CC=JP&NR=2007028879A&KC=A


warmwater: induction heater/collector


http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20140331&CC=CH&NR=707010A2&KC=A2
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?CC=CH&NR=707010A2&KC=A2&FT=D&ND=3&date=20140331&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
page 7/16 LESAR description: ...... input 4,7W output 9,4W


https://es-la.facebook.com/manueljose.baqueromenendez
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP2144298A2.pdf
real world demonstration ?
http://www.inpama.com/index.php?content=invention&id=660
In a house of 100 m / 2, fully electrified (hot water, heating, appliances, lighting, air conditioning, etc..) Eight 240 W photovoltaic panels, each producing 1296 Kw., A month, is enough energy to meet the needs of the house described in the example.
The Unit with all its elements, occupies an area of one meter square.

MileHigh

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2016, 04:30:36 PM »
There's no need for big gyrating floats.  An array of Vivace converters can be placed on the floor of rivers and oceans.  Below is an artist's illustration, by Omar Jamil, depicting an array of VIVACE converters on the ocean floor.  Vortex power is a form of hydro power which generates energy by placing obstacles in rivers/oceans in order to cause the formation of vortices which can then be tapped to a usable form of energy such as electricity. This method is pioneered by a team at the University of Michigan who call the technology VIVACE which stands for Vortex Induced Vibrations Aquatic Clean Energy (patent pending through the University of Michigan).  The company Vortex Hydro Power has been created to commercialize the technology. This technology has 10–20 years life span which meets life cycle cost targets.  The vortex hydro can generate power 24/7, unlike solar.  Integrate WITT into the Vivace converters.

Gravock

Are you sure about this?  Why don't you try doing some due diligence research and see what results you get.

memoryman

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2016, 04:59:45 PM »
"In a house of 100 m / 2, fully electrified (hot water, heating, appliances, lighting, air conditioning, etc..) Eight 240 W photovoltaic panels, each producing 1296 Kw., A month, is enough energy to meet the needs of the house described in the example.
The Unit with all its elements, occupies an area of one meter square." check you math.

gravityblock

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2016, 05:52:45 PM »
Are you sure about this?  Why don't you try doing some due diligence research and see what results you get.

This isn't a scientific or mathematical rebuttal.  No references to back up your position.  Am I sure about what?  Be more specific!

Gravock

gravityblock

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2016, 07:12:16 PM »
Well, I suppose that I can play Darth Vader too just for the psychotic MIB agent role playing fun of it.

Pasting my posting on Revolution Green here:

It is interesting but don't count your chickens yet.  It doesn't make sense to put one on a truck because the energy it would harvest would come from the diesel fuel you put into the truck.  It's a fancy arrangement of clutches.  Making something like that cost-effective and seaworthy that will not need maintenance and will have a decent ROI is a huge challenge.  It will have to have moveable seals that have sea water splashing against the seals all the time.  I am no mechanical engineer so I can't say but that might be a challenge.  Notice there is no demo box driving a small incandescent light bulb because a load would slow down the flywheel and take all of the "fun" out of it.  I am smelling a very decent possibility that you are in Solar Freaking Roadways territory here. This is all pure gut feel.

Imagine a building on the seashore.  You have solar panels on the roof and a WITT wave power installation on the shore.  Which system gives you more bang for your buck?  Obviously this is an over simplified example but my nose is leading me towards the solar panel installation on the roof.  For example, the solar panel installation, just the installation costs, might be 1/100th the cost of the wave power installation if not more than that.  No moving parts vs. these big gyrating floats and huge gears and clutches and power couplings to generators, and on and on.  That sounds like very low maintenance vs. high maintenance and relatively low cost to relatively high cost to me (No matter what they are claiming about the low maintenance.)

Tell that to the dead trout that adopted a swaying movement in the vortex street and was drawn upstream while it was tethered on a line to an object flowing in water.  Put this concept on a truck, and the truck could be propelled forward by the vortices created by a vortex structure as it encounters an increase in air resistance until the velocity is reached at which synchronicity of the system is possible.  The energy it harvests to further propel the truck comes from the creation of vortices as it moves past the air, and not from the diesel fuel put into the truck.  The  energy to propel the trout upstream didn't come from the dead trout itself.  Same thing should be for the truck example.  Only a small amount of energy is required for huge accelerations and to maintain a uniform motion or constant velocity.  This is almost a self-sustaining system.  This phenomenon naturally occurs throughout nature and doesn't break any laws of physics.

Gravock

No comment MileHigh?  No scientific or mathematical rebuttal?  No references or empirical evidence showing a dead fish supplies it's own energy to move upstream?  Of course not, for your a student of the government's successful disinformation program.  If I didn't know better, I would tell you to go blow your on sail.  However, I do know better, for blowing your own sail is possible according to empirical evidence.  Once again, what is taught is contrary to the empirical evidence.

Gravock

lancaIV

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2016, 07:34:03 PM »
"In a house of 100 m / 2, fully electrified (hot water, heating, appliances, lighting, air conditioning, etc..) Eight 240 W photovoltaic panels, each producing 1296 Kw., A month, is enough energy to meet the needs of the house described in the example.
The Unit with all its elements, occupies an area of one meter square." check you math.
Checking his math,not mine,I would estimate that the area occupied will become  one square meter,but not one cubic meter.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP2144298A2.pdf
8 x 240W= 1920W per hour x (8766/12) = ? KWh

memoryman

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2016, 07:45:27 PM »
but you quoted it without using cautions about its content. Do you endorse the content?

MileHigh

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2016, 08:55:02 PM »


No comment MileHigh?  No scientific or mathematical rebuttal?  No references or empirical evidence showing a dead fish supplies it's own energy to move upstream?  Of course not, for your a student of the government's successful disinformation program.  If I didn't know better, I would tell you to go blow your on sail.  However, I do know better, for blowing your own sail is possible according to empirical evidence.  Once again, what is taught is contrary to the empirical evidence.

Gravock

Stop the silly MIB nonsense.

How about a business rebuttal?  Why don't you go take a look, and next time you post a "solution" check the business angle also.

lancaIV

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2016, 09:08:46 PM »
but you quoted it without using cautions about its content. Do you endorse the content?


The spanish patent office endorsed the content : http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20110429&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=ES&NR=2341161B1&KC=B1&ND=4
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/inpadoc?CC=ES&NR=2341161B1&KC=B1&FT=D&ND=4&date=20110429&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
                                                              +   DEFINITIVE PROTECTION

memoryman

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2016, 09:48:53 PM »
I don't read Spanish; will have Google translate.

gravityblock

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2016, 05:28:43 AM »
Stop the silly MIB nonsense.

How about a business rebuttal?  Why don't you go take a look, and next time you post a "solution" check the business angle also.

Your reply is a red herring.  A business rebuttal has nothing to do with a dead trout moving upstream, and without the dead trout expending any energy to do so.  The dead trout is a slap in the face for your proposed solution that the harvested energy would come from the diesel fuel put into the truck.  It is you who needs to stop the "so-called" silly MIB agent role playing for the fun of it, and not me.  However, as long as you subscribe to the teachings of mankind that is contrary to what really is, then the "so-called" silly MIB nonsense will continue due to your willful ignorance.

Gravock

MileHigh

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Re: well engineered motion into electricity device
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2016, 05:56:19 AM »
There is no company and there is no proven technology.  All that happened was that they got some government grants to do some small pilot systems.  That was already a few years ago.  They do not show any credibility for doing the conversion from mechanical energy to electrical energy.  The company now consists of a web site and a college professor, that's it.  You cannot order a working system, they don't have a working system or the resources to deliver a working system.  There is no real product.  For all practical intents and purposes, the company exists on paper only.

And that's what due diligence is, making sure that what you are suggesting is real and deliverable, a real working product backed up by a real company, and not just an artist's conception drawing.

You are on an energy research web site, and if you cannot figure out for yourself that putting one of these "on paper only" devices inside a truck will draw its energy from the diesel fuel that makes the truck move forward down the highway then you need to put your thinking cap on.