Author Topic: Rosemary Ainslie Circuit Demonstration, June 1 2013 (Read 219415 times)

TinselKoala · « **Reply #210 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:51:04 AM »

Here are some real numbers:

Frequency of oscillations in the NERD circuit: around 1.43 MHz
reference: Ainslie Paper 1, Figure 4

Intrinsic input capacitance of a _single_ IRFPG50 mosfet: 2800 pF to well over 4000 pF depending on D-S voltage, but at Ainslie voltages 2800 pF
reference: IRFPG50 data sheet, Figure 5: Typical Capacitance vs. Drain-to-Source voltage

Capacitances in parallel _add_, so 4 mosfets in parallel could easily have 16000 pF, or 16nF, or 0.016 uF, input capacitance or even more if the supply voltage is low, but at the Ainslie voltages it will be 2800 pF x 4 or a little over 11000 pF.
reference: any bright tenth-grader
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/capacitor/cap_6.html

TinselKoala · « **Reply #211 on:** June 19, 2013, 03:08:52 AM »

Quote from: MileHigh on June 19, 2013, 02:00:12 AM

I have to jump in to point this out.

Guess who:

Oh my God the sleaze factor is so gross. How things can get so topsy-turvy in the creepy little world of Rosie Posie is beyond me. I have seen her trash good skilled people over and over again. It's simply disgusting.

Then we have a kind of concession juxtaposed with Club Wackadoo oozing more woo:
Quote
even a blown MOSFET at Q1 should be investigated as a possible source of energy.

And this woman claims that she has a "team" behind her backing her up, "They're professionals and - to a man - rely on their skills to earn their living."

She's apparently amazed that people actually do earn their living by relying on their skills, rather than by sitting on their asses spouting ignorant BS all day like she does.

Quote

Well, I hope that they are reading here. I hope over the next few weeks this nonsense gets swatted like a bug and never comes back. I am so sick of it.

Unlikely.... non-existent people don't read forums or blogs, they are too busy relying on their skills to earn a living.

Quote

MileHigh

Quoting Genesis (the musical group):

There's something solid forming in the air,
The wall of death is lowered in Times Square.
No-one seems to care,
They carry on as if nothing was there.
The wind is blowing harder now,
Blowing dust into my eyes.
The dust settles on my skin,
Making a crust I cannot move in
And I'm hovering like a fly............. waiting for the windshield on the freeway.

Where does she find these "professionals" who "to a man - rely on their skills to earn their living"? Could anyone else find a single knowledgeable person who could read her daft manuscripts and not see all the problems, even without knowing the history and the "back story" told in her blog and forum posts?

It's hilarious the way she demands to know personal identities of people like me, PW and so on, when she's so afraid of anyone finding out who "her professionals" are.

She still cannot produce a single qualified individual to stand beside her and state that her experimental results, like Figure 3, are correct and valid.

------------------------------------
"A Joule is a Watt, the terms are interchangeable."
"There is no such animal as inductive reactance."
"Even a blown MOSFET at Q1 should be investigated as a possible source of energy." -- Rosemary Ainslie

picowatt · « **Reply #212 on:** June 19, 2013, 03:48:24 AM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on June 19, 2013, 02:51:04 AM

Here are some real numbers:

Frequency of oscillations in the NERD circuit: around 1.43 MHz
reference: Ainslie Paper 1, Figure 4

Intrinsic input capacitance of a _single_ IRFPG50 mosfet: 2800 pF to well over 4000 pF depending on D-S voltage, but at Ainslie voltages 2800 pF
reference: IRFPG50 data sheet, Figure 5: Typical Capacitance vs. Drain-to-Source voltage

Capacitances in parallel _add_, so 4 mosfets in parallel could easily have 16000 pF, or 16nF, or 0.016 uF, input capacitance or even more if the supply voltage is low, but at the Ainslie voltages it will be 2800 pF x 4 or a little over 11000 pF.
reference: any bright tenth-grader
http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/capacitor/cap_6.html

TK,

Keep in mind that the 1.43MHz you cite is merely the trigger frequency. The waveforms are not pure sine waves and therefore contain additional harmonics. This was brought up when the proper correction factors for the CSR inductance were being discussed. Recall that I mentioned that she could switch her scope to an FFT display of her waveforms to show their true frequency content when she scoffed at the idea that there was energy contained within the waveforms out to several megacycles or more.

Also keep in mind that the MOSFET capacitances are dynamic and vary with Vds. When Vds approaches zero during the oscillations,which it does, the MOSFET capacitances increase dramatically. As well, when Vgs is at its greatest, the MOSFET capacitances are at their lowest.

The values you cite are likely a fair average. But just as your video and the math involved shows, there is a sufficiently low impedance path through the MOSFET capacitances at the frequencies involved to pass the observed AC current.

PW

poynt99 · « **Reply #213 on:** June 19, 2013, 04:02:16 AM »

Have finished the build and ran a few preliminary tests. Will post results over the next several days.

Here are a few pics of the setup. It ain't pretty, but that's what makes it work so good.

picowatt · « **Reply #214 on:** June 19, 2013, 06:04:44 AM »

Quote from: poynt99 on June 19, 2013, 04:02:16 AM

Have finished the build and ran a few preliminary tests. Will post results over the next several days.

Here are a few pics of the setup. It ain't pretty, but that's what makes it work so good.

Looking good. I can still smell the "new" on your scope!

PW

TinselKoala · « **Reply #215 on:** June 19, 2013, 06:30:42 AM »

Yes, very nice indeed.

But.... with only one Q2 you have, of course, only 1/4 the total Ciss capacitance, so your oscillation frequency (the fundamental or "base" frequency, thanks PW) will likely be a bit higher than Ainslie's.

Also... with both your Q1 and Q2 on the same heatsink, it will be more difficult for you to monitor the mosfet temperatures to see, for example, that in the high heat mode of the conditions leading up to the Figure 3 failure, the Q1 mosfet heats rapidly and the Q2 heats much less.

What kind of container are you going to use when you "bring water to boil"? And ..... How Are You Going To Demonstrate that your mosfets are still completely functional after you reproduce the Figure 3 scopeshot?

Your pulse generator is worth more than my house. Or at least it was when it was new. And your scope is worth more than my car and my housemate's car combined.

ETA: I see that the 8161A has an output of -5 v to +5 v. Or is that an 8160A? How do you intend to manage the offset range that Ainslie's circuit requires?

TinselKoala · « **Reply #216 on:** June 19, 2013, 07:02:06 AM »

You've got Ainslie all hot and excited now, "poynty poynt". But tell me something, please..... not to detract from your present work of course but other than your use of fewer mosfets and a digital scope, just how exactly is your present construction different from the work I did with Tar Baby over the past two years? What will you be able to do with it that I haven't already done, and demonstrated on a video? Please tell me, so I can try to keep up. I have Tar Baby set up on my bench right now, just waiting for something new to do with it.

Oh.... yes.... I see now. Your batteries are 7 A-H and mine are only 5. And you are using a pulse generator instead of a function generator. Well, I do have the DP-101.....

poynt99 · « **Reply #217 on:** June 19, 2013, 02:55:25 PM »

Quote from: TinselKoala on June 19, 2013, 06:30:42 AM

ETA: I see that the 8161A has an output of -5 v to +5 v. Or is that an 8160A? How do you intend to manage the offset range that Ainslie's circuit requires?

I have a few 8160A's. The output spec is into 50 Ohms, so the output is actually +/- 10V.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #218 on:** June 19, 2013, 04:45:36 PM »

Quote from: poynt99 on June 19, 2013, 02:55:25 PM

I have a few 8160A's. The output spec is into 50 Ohms, so the output is actually +/- 10V.

That's good..... you may need them. Because it is possible (just barely) to experience a failure mode involving the Q2(s) that will pop the final output stage of your generator. Mark E has warned about this in his circuit analysis, and both Ainslie and I have experienced it. I was able to repair the discrete components in the output of my F43, and Ainslie simply replaced the cheapo FG that she was using. I've not seen the inside of an 8160A but other HP instruments of that vintage are.... shall we say..... rather tightly constructed inside.

Have you managed the negative-going integral yet?

(Scopeshot below is unrelated to the failure mode)

poynt99 · « **Reply #219 on:** June 19, 2013, 05:58:02 PM »

With a 38V supply, I am not too concerned, as the output devices should tolerate a dead short of Q2 in such case. However, I am concerned to go higher, and therefore plan on building an external drive to buffer the 8160A.

picowatt · « **Reply #220 on:** June 19, 2013, 06:19:46 PM »

.99,

TK's warning about a Q2 failure damaging your pulse generator's output is a valid one. As well, a stray cliplead inadvertantly contacting the drain or +rail could do similar damage. You might want to at least slip a piece of heat shrink over that 'gator clip on the FG out lead.

A couple of back to back 10V zeners directly across the PG output and a 100-150ma inline fuse between the PG output and circuit would offer some degree of protection. At the very least, even without the zeners, the use of the inline fuse at the PG output might be better than nothing!

Using that very nice PG in this application is kind of like using a sports car to haul wood...

It appears your Q1 is turning on and passing current similar to FIG5. Hopefully it will be OK with TK to just remove Q1 or swap its gate and source leads to duplicate FIG3, as opposed to actually having to blow a MOSFET!

However, I am assuming your primary investigation is with regard to the neg pwr measurement.

PW

picowatt · « **Reply #221 on:** June 19, 2013, 06:27:57 PM »

Quote from: poynt99 on June 19, 2013, 05:58:02 PM

With a 38V supply, I am not too concerned, as the output devices should tolerate a dead short of Q2 in such case. However, I am concerned to go higher, and therefore plan on building an external drive to buffer the 8160A.

.99,

I would not count on the 8160A being able to handle a Q2 short at 38V.

The buffer is a good idea but sounds like a bit more work. No old FG's laying around?

PW

poynt99 · « **Reply #222 on:** June 19, 2013, 07:00:12 PM »

Quote from: picowatt on June 19, 2013, 06:27:57 PM

.99,

I would not count on the 8160A being able to handle a Q2 short at 38V.

The buffer is a good idea but sounds like a bit more work. No old FG's laying around?

PW

I don't have anything cheap and/or old that has duty cycle adjust.

I'll be looking at a whole lot more than just the negative battery power.

TinselKoala · « **Reply #223 on:** June 19, 2013, 07:24:43 PM »

@.99:

Ainslie said, on the 3rd of June, sixteen days ago:

Quote

And while you're at it PLEASE, make that waveform for our 'ickle pickle'. I'll post it hereunder. It's no good my demonstrating this - even in a live broadcast. He'll somehow find cause to contradict it. And it's very easy to replicate. If you struggle - then get hold of me. I'll guide you through the required settings. But they're simple enough.

As I've demonstrated, it is indeed very easy to replicate.

But not in the way she has claimed. That's a bit more of a struggle. Has she guided you through the required settings yet?

After all, they are simple enough. The only settings available are on the Function Generator (once you've got your 72 volt source hooked up.) The period of 160 seconds with a 10 percent duty cycle is very plain to see. I don't know if the 8160A can match that but I've got the manual here so I'll check.
All that's left is the FG amplitude and offset settings. It should be possible to specify those in a sentence or two, or a scopetrace of the FG alone with nothing else hooked up.

poynt99 · « **Reply #224 on:** June 19, 2013, 08:33:48 PM »

On second thought, I think a 250mA fuse will be a lot easier.

TK, I'm not particularly interested in performing the long period tests, so I won't be pursuing that, at least not right now.

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Author Topic: Rosemary Ainslie Circuit Demonstration, June 1 2013 (Read 219415 times)

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