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Author Topic: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE  (Read 2358012 times)

shadow119g

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1695 on: October 15, 2014, 09:02:06 PM »
I think everyone is interested.
I am.


antijon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1696 on: October 15, 2014, 09:50:13 PM »
Thanks Shadow.

Okay, the schematic, as pictured in the first image, is simply two transformers driven in parallel. They must be identical. To describe it, when they are both driven positive, one outputs a positive current, but the other is blocked by the diode. When the positive voltage reaches it's peak, then begins to drop, the second transformer begins to drive a positive current. This is similar to a clamper circuit.

The second schematic shows the driver properly attached to the Figuera generator. I know it appears to be the same as a center-tapped transformer with diodes at both sides, but because of the way the transformers are connected, it produces two separate currents. While one current is increasing, the other is decreasing.

I'm still running tests on it, but with two inducers, same poles facing each other, it works well.

I want to point out, when one transformer is positive, the back voltage created in one of the inducing coils directly opposes the incoming current. Referring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximum_power_transfer_theorem , I've been doing tests on cancelling reactance, but it's a two-edged sword. When we cancel reactance, we increase power transfer, but we also decrease efficiency. Anyway, a lot more research needs to be done, but I have to leave for work now.

hanon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1697 on: October 15, 2014, 11:48:12 PM »
Thanks antijon for the schematics!!  I will test it. I think it is important to avoid reaching zero voltage in order to avoid breaking the swinging of both fields.

Also I wonder if this this circuit match perfectly the mechanical conmutator: Figuera´s conmutator has the current and the voltage in phase, because it comes from an original modulated DC current. I wonder if circuits based on AC may get the same results. I don´t know..

If you want to know my personal opinion I think that Figuera also kept secret the correct placement of the induced coil. Therefore, we should test any possilbe coil placement

Regards

antijon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1698 on: October 16, 2014, 01:09:32 AM »
Thanks Hanon. Honestly, I can't say that the action is exactly the same as a commutator. Because a commutator and resistor set may have some imperfections that don't produce a smooth current. It's possible that it can even produce a pulsating current as the brush moves. But I can say it produces the current he describes in the patent.. well it should, I don't have a scope to be sure.

Remember, as frequency increases, so does reactance. I originally thought the voltage and current were in phase, but that must not be so. As the rate of current change increases, back voltage increases. I did make a setup that canceled reactance, but it actually drew over 4 amps with only a 6 volt input. But that just proves Jacobi's theorem- as reactance decreases, power transfer increases but efficiency decreases. In this case, I think the back voltage decreases input current similar to a motor back emf, or a transformer- efficiency decreases as the load increases.

You're right, if you change the coil placements you can change the polarity. I imagine, if all the coils are side by side, like the last part of your video with the induced perpendicular to the inducers, then the polarity should be N-S.

bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1699 on: October 16, 2014, 02:53:27 PM »
Alvaro,
 
How is the test of the generator going? I previously commented that I was concerned with the orientation of the permanent magnets. I found an article written by John Denham, which was read before the Cape Town local section of the institution of Electrical Engineers in August 1898. I agreed with the majority of his statements, especially the ones related to the polarity and pitch of the electromagnets with respect to the coils. Mr. Denham describes the design of the excitation coils and induced coils for disc armature generators but his concept may apply to any rotating generators using Faraday's induction law. The article titled "SOME NOTES ON ALTERNATOR DESIGN"  is found on page 514 of the ELECTRICAL REVIEW journal in 1902. In this article, Fig. 1 shows the configuration of the Ferranti alternators that use magnets of alternating signs and the number of exciting poles must be the same as the number of armature coils. Fig. 2 shows the configuration of the Mordey alternators that use magnets of same polarity (like the one shown in the Alvaro's photos of reply #1513 in page 101) and the number of exciting poles must be half of the armature coils.
 
Quotes for the Ferranti's alternators:
 
"Fig. 1 is a diagram of a six-coil disc armature machine, with six revolving poles alternately north and south. An equal number of poles of opposite sign would, of course, be immediately behind."
 
"...it is obvious that the coils in Fig. 1 cut twice the number of magnetic lines at the same speed of revolution as do those in Fig. 2. Assuming the magnetic leakage to be the same in both cases, the first machine [Ferranti's] would give double the output of the second [Mordey's],"
Quotes for the Mordey alternators:
 
"Fig. 2 shows a disc armature machine with the same number of coils as that in the direction, in which case there must be twice as many coils as polar projections, as the amount generated is due to the difference in the number of lines passing through the coils and not in their direction, therefore, three poles only are shown, those of opposite sign being behind."
 
"On the other hand, in certain positions the coils in Fig. 2 are not merely not being usually acted upon, but are in reality so much, idle resistance in series with the working coils. Practically only half of the coils are doing actual work in any period of the revolution, and part of the generated pressure [voltage] is consequently absorbed in the passage of the current through the remaining half of the armature."
 
"Furthermore, those coils not being usefully acted upon, would be as so many chocking coils in the circuit, which would reduce the effective voltage of the machine considerably."
 
As you can see from the above quotes, having the magnets with the same polarity is a less efficient design than the one having the magnets with alternate polarities. This was exactly my concern in my reply #1557.

ALVARO_CS

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1700 on: October 16, 2014, 08:11:35 PM »
bajac
sorry to say, but when manipulating the rotors, a couple of magnets went loose and crashed together (hopelessly broken)
For the moment no funds available for replacement.

Anyway  insisting in my previous observations, Lorenz force (and Lenz effect) are present when loadding.

Have you visited the qantamagnetics page ? http://quantamagnetics.com/
There device uses a simmilar design (last version with 3 rotors 2 stators)

bajac

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1701 on: October 17, 2014, 01:55:10 AM »
bajac
sorry to say, but when manipulating the rotors, a couple of magnets went loose and crashed together (hopelessly broken)
For the moment no funds available for replacement.


I am sorry to hear that. I hope things turn around for you.

Quote
Anyway  insisting in my previous observations, Lorenz force (and Lenz effect) are present when loadding.


It is true for all coil currents induced by magnetic fields! The real issue and question are, how much? And the historical records show that the 10MW Ferranti's disc armature alternators were really especial and different from the iron core drum alternators.

Quote
Have you visited the qantamagnetics page ? http://quantamagnetics.com/
There device uses a simmilar design (last version with 3 rotors 2 stators)


I saw this video and I think it is way too complicated! The persons building these machines know that somehow using the ironless induction coils is a way for obtaining overunity. However, it is too complicated and inefficient because the operating principle for overunity is not clearly understood. Note that the magnetic circuit is similar to the wind ironless generator winding and equally inefficient.


Do you really understand the principle of operation of this machine or whatever is being explained?
My philosophy is "the learning process in a classroom consists of 90% responsibility of the teacher or professor for explaining the subject and 10% responsibility of the students or audience for paying attention." In other words, if you do not understand what is being taught, it is more likely the person explaining it does not understand it either. If the person really knows the subject, he/she must be capable of finding a way to bring it to your level. I have experiences with professors that gave the impression of knowledge and wisdom, but in reality it was all memorization and repetition. They just memorize the books in a mechanical manner. Like in the advertisement business, if it is repeated often people tend to believe that it is true.


What I proposed in the published paper is something simple. A method that was tested with alternators sized for 10MW without complicated electronics. True they did not say overunity was obtained, but there is enough information that directly refer to extraordinary performances of these machines. I am moving ahead with a construction and testing of a prototype.

ALVARO_CS

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1702 on: October 18, 2014, 01:40:10 PM »
Hello all
@ hanon:Forgive me if this is out of topic (I thought to use this as input for a Figuera setup)

@ Bajac: thanks for your comments
here attached the setup I am testing now. It is similar to the previous one,but simplified


motor Input idle: 0.01A @ 4 V idle
motor Input in setup: 0.1A @4V (no load)
motor input in setup loaded: 0.3A@4v (load 100 Ohm 1/2W)

coil out rectified no load:DC 37V
coil out rectified loaded: less than 0.01A

edit:magnets are 10 mm diam. x 20 mm length (typo)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 06:24:46 PM by ALVARO_CS »

Fernandez

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1703 on: October 18, 2014, 07:42:29 PM »
What was it about the late 1800's that spawned so many self-exciting generators? What did they know that we today don't know or forgot. Even if the ideas didn't work what possessed  them to patent the concept. One can argue that Figuera's device can be classified as a "Self exciting electric generator" would anyone challenge that from his patents?

Having said that my post does not look to derail any currently working projects but to add to the knowledge OR better yet enhance the knowledge of the team. Some time ago I researched self-exciting generators, attached to this post are some very informative patents that should provide critical data to the Figuera device. Please take the time and review the devices they all have a lot in common with Figuera's device. Maybe they even fill in the missing data in his device.

.........FYI my personal favorite is the Moses device I had always suspected that a secondary coil could be omitted and energy extracted out of the iron core material.

Good reading:
 

Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1704 on: October 19, 2014, 04:15:06 PM »
Fernendez

  What makes you think these concepts dont work? The purpose of a patent is secure a persons idea so they can reap the rewards for their hard work. To prevent some conglomerate from capitalizing off it by way of theft. Even in a world of safe guards some thieves have the resources to get away with it in spite of the laws. Particularly those industries which have a monopoly in reality. 10 companies owned by one person or one family is hardly in moral compliance with anti monopoly laws. Then again morals are a abstract concept in themselves. The less a person is moral the more abstract becomes the concept.
   As to what you don't know, well that's hard to figure with out knowing what you do know to compare the two. What is or should be self evident is the foundation upon which modern knowledge is based is absent.People went the way of specialization so each person would become more dependent on each other for the sake of economics. You only need to know what is required for you to do your job. To learn for the sake,,,,, well nothing is socially unacceptable Every time you do more then you need to you make the people around you look bad. You need only compete with the people your surrounded by, your peers. It s a sliding scale  and doing less is rewarded by job security. It has crept into every corner of life and every way. If you go back into history into the time of B.C. we are pretty stupid today. Flawed in virtually everything of importance, so lazy that it would not be outside the realm of thinking that we would not survive in the past. Modern man would be the village idiot.
  Why would a person with a slide rule need a computer? Do you think a person from 100 yrs ago or more would spend so much money on a computer or the time to learn to operate it when they could just as easily go out and get a slide rule which requires no electricity and fits into a shirt pocket. Can go through washing process in ones pocket with out damage can be used in the rain.If cared for can last for ever and never need updating or become subject to hacking or viruses.
  How many people even know what a slide rule is? Everything is sold on the pretense of making things more easy and faster so people can be more productive.All they ended up with is more stupid and fat and less appreciative of everything because they did not have to work very hard for it and never have time enjoy it. They just think they are working hard because someone told them they are so they would continue to follow the prescribed path of an economic model. Why do something if you don't have to? Maybe you should be considering the source of that question. Would not a thief ask the same of looking your doors?

Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1705 on: October 19, 2014, 05:29:29 PM »
As an example of being intelligent but senseless.
So far the focus has been on the power supply to the device to get even a meager reaction from two inducers sandwiched with a output coil between.

  Since the device is said to be able to self run once started. The start up is not as important as the continuation of operation after the supply is removed. Hell you could just plug into a mains supply through the output coil for as long as it takes to power up the process at which point running a load would not register from amp meter out of the mains it would come from the device.
 Any other device could be reworked to function on the same principles. Which would save a lot of work. How you start it is of little importance. Even if you get a reaction using known induction rules you are only left with a motor or a transformer and you dont need to do that. So wasting large amounts of time and effort toward making motors and transformers from scratch still will not yield anything useful in the end. There will still be the problem of getting it to self run which if it was solved would render the efficiency to not important either.

Doug1

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1706 on: October 19, 2014, 05:55:50 PM »
For as long as I can remember people have said the output will always be less then the input because losses are unavoidable. The losses are man made which serve a purpose to some people. The industry of manufacturing builds into the product a life expectancy with sole intent of limiting the time something will last before needing to be replaced. If it lasts for ever your business will not. Conspiracies to some are simple good business practices to others. How would free energy be a good business practice? In fact it is bad business practice, it would be like making a car that could last forever. What part of society would support such a thing as it's own demise.

forest

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1707 on: October 19, 2014, 06:20:10 PM »
Society must change . Labour is required for producing things , today it is known from producing money (which is nothing more then a piece of paper or electronic variable)  Money should be depreciated to the position it can still be usable but do not limit humanity. For example of radical change , if there is 100 electrical engineers in town but only 30 have job in their proffession then hire them all , to produce/ repair things faster and better. They would work just 4 hours a day not 8 and they would have plenty time for hobby/education/experimenting. Except, it require the reality change, when the real limitation is the natural resources limit, not just stupid economics. Consume less, produce better longlasting things, have more free time just productively used.


If Figuera/Blasberg/Buforn were right then maybe every generator on Earth is producing free energy but the construction is limited in such way that mechanical force applied is wasted for limiting the power production by creating not necessary drag.
We only need a proof....

Cadman

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1708 on: October 19, 2014, 08:08:39 PM »
I keep going back to the design of a dynamo and trying to identify the differences between a dynamo (which works) and the Figuera device, which so far does not work.

My thinking is as follows:

One of the obvious things is the field coils in a dynamo develop their full flux and maintain it constantly, and the Figuera device constantly varies the flux from each field coil.

Constantly varying the current to the field coils brings extra losses, compared to a dynamo, because of Lenz and these escalate exponentially as the frequency increases.


The circuit below is an attempt to minimize the field coil losses.

This drawing represents a single field coil with a series bifilar winding on a common core of soft iron, with DC current.

The circuit resistance is always the same and current is never interrupted or varied in coil A. Once powered up, coil A will not be affected by Lenz.

By switching the connection with coil B we can vary the production of flux in the iron core to any of 3 states without ever changing the amount of current through coil A.

Coil B will still be subject to Lenz but since coil B is only half the turns on the field coil, Lenz will also be reduced to half compared to a field coil with a single winding.

Any thoughts or comments?


antijon

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Re: Re-Inventing The Wheel-Part1-Clemente_Figuera-THE INFINITE ENERGY MACHINE
« Reply #1709 on: October 19, 2014, 09:50:06 PM »
Cadman, that's an interesting design. I think I've been doing something similar. You essentially have two coils, mutually coupled. I can see how this is similar to the stators in a generator... The only problem is the no flux state. When one coil tries to oppose the flux of the other, it's going to create a forward voltage to maintain the field. That will draw more current from the supply.