Author Topic: lead acid / lithium ion OR capacitor batteries off the shelf ?? (Read 22192 times)

powercat · « **on:** July 13, 2009, 01:24:18 AM »

Hi All
Been living on a boat many years now and very rarely get to connect to the grid
so generators battery banks and inverters are normal life for me.

I am now seriously looking at running my boat on electricity / driver motor

lead acid batteries are cheap to buy and the weight is not a problem on my boat
charging time and life cycles is a problem with lead acid

lithium ion are ridiculously expensive in less of course you know otherwise ?

So Cap Batt's
these are used in BIG car stereo equipment I have also seen some members on this forum using them in their experiments

Can You measure them in AH ?
For my boat I am looking at 1000 AH minimum

price V efficiency lets hope we can work it out

cat

TechStuf · « **Reply #1 on:** July 13, 2009, 01:53:51 AM »

Let's see that boat of yours....I'd seriously consider a bank of boostcaps, a charge controller and a high efficiency wind turbine. It shouldn't be difficult to setup a system robust enough to charge the main battery with plenty left over to keep the boostcaps topped off. One could dump the caps in series and or succession to pulse drive a relatively modest brushless neo motor, effectively running it at top speed for controlled bursts to control velocity for launch and harbor maneuvering.

TS

powercat · « **Reply #2 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:03:17 AM »

Have you guys seen these and what do you think ?
In Phase 20F Battery Power Cap

20 Farad car battery replacement power capacitor
Eliminate waste during current transfer
Extreme fast charging rate
Low E.S.P
Multiple choices for easier installation
Auto on / off switch control
Electric polarity protection circuit
Wide temperature endurance: -40Â° - 95Â°C
Works with all cars: 12V car audio installations

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/In-Phase-20F-Battery-Power-Cap_W0QQitemZ110359546007QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item19b1f10897&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65:12|66:2|39:1|72:1683|293:4|294:50

cat

powercat · « **Reply #3 on:** July 13, 2009, 02:26:47 AM »

Quote from: TechStuf on July 13, 2009, 01:53:51 AM

Let's see that boat of yours....I'd seriously consider a bank of boostcaps, a charge controller and a high efficiency wind turbine. It shouldn't be difficult to setup a system robust enough to charge the main battery with plenty left over to keep the boostcaps topped off. One could dump the caps in series and or succession to pulse drive a relatively modest brushless neo motor, effectively running it at top speed for controlled bursts to control velocity for launch and harbor maneuvering.

TS

Hi TS
my boat is 17 metres long and 5 metres wide
I will at a later date be starting a new thread on the drive system for my boat
finding off the shelf drive motors and control at reasonable prices is not difficult on the net

the biggest problem that I see is that batteries I can get 1000AH of lead acid batteries for about Â£700 but you are aware of the problems with these batteries [500 cycles]etc

thanks
Cat

powercat · « **Reply #4 on:** July 13, 2009, 03:32:33 AM »

Cap power
11,000 Volt Capacitor Bank. 32 kJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMWRvAI4o2E
I don't know where he got it from but it was very expensive

cat

powercat · « **Reply #5 on:** July 13, 2009, 12:06:53 PM »

Maybe I should consider making my own capacitor battery ??

Amazing 20 Farad 2.5 voltscapacitor - works like a rechargeable battery! Charges in seconds
and can be used to power lamps, motors, etc. Ideal for use in projects based around rechargeable products
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Super-Capacitor-charges-in-seconds-20-Farad-2-5Volt_W0QQitemZ110399029587QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item19b44b8153&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Does anyone know where I can get cheap ones ??

Does anyone know how many i need to make 1000 AH ??

cat

powercat · « **Reply #6 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:27:39 PM »

Hi all
thanks to another member on a different forum I have found some big capacitors
Electric Double Layer Capacitor (EDLC): BoostcapÂ® Ultracapacitor
3000.0 F Â±20%; 2.7V; L = 138.0mm, OD = 60.0mm; -40Â°C to +65Â°C
$130.00
Applications:
Hybrid drive trains
Automotive subsystems
Transportation
Rail system power
Features:
2.7V operating voltage
Ultra low internal resistance
Over 1 million duty cycles
Highest power performance available
Lowest RC time constant
Threaded terminal or weldable post versions
cat

powercat · « **Reply #7 on:** July 22, 2009, 03:54:27 PM »

Integration Kit
Integration Kit with battery posts
http://www.tecategroup.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=26_30_43_54
cat

powercat · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2009, 04:03:19 PM »

149 products all the different sizes. and most of the prices and PDF information

http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors/productfinder.php

cat

Doug1 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 22, 2009, 04:54:45 PM »

Guess it might be worth it to tear a couple common caps apart for a look see inside. The cycle life is pretty impressive. Is that why they are not using this type of storage in EV's?

powercat · « **Reply #10 on:** July 22, 2009, 05:34:53 PM »

Hi Doug1
I think you could find this information online
maybe not as much fun as looking inside yourself

They are beginning to use them inEV's but only as a booster pack for initial acceleration
the problem is you need so many of them to run a car entirely.
The new nano tech ones are on the way and this will solve the problem
http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/january9/nanowire-010908
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16768-atomic-construction-yields-punchier-power-store.html

cat

Doug1 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 22, 2009, 06:05:06 PM »

Thanks Cat
Structurally that looks like a photovoltiac. Which is another pet. While i have not yet tried it,one day it popped into my head that using magnesium powder and aluminum powder as a fuel would vaporize TIO2 and leave some traces of itself.Perhaps with a polarizing magnetic field or the introduction of narrow band light emission on or around the subtrate it would layer itself correctly as the mix of vapors well up onto a conductive backing. If nothing ells the toxic light show would be interesting if not entertaining. The cap structure in your pictures could be a secondary effect to shoot for if the first does not work. how do you figure out how much cap you need to equal a given amount of storage in a battery?

powercat · « **Reply #12 on:** July 22, 2009, 06:49:40 PM »

Quote from: Doug1 on July 22, 2009, 06:05:06 PM

how do you figure out how much cap you need to equal a given amount of storage in a battery?

ideally I would like 1000Ah anyway I asked this question on another forum and got this answer

To answer your question - yes it is possible but, expensive. The formula to figure this out is:

(Vmin + Vmax)/2 * F / 3600 = Ah

Vmin & Vmax - upper and lower voltage. This is the voltage range that your device has to work in. Vmin is the voltage that your device dies at, my GPS stops at 2 volts.

F - Farads

3600 - coulomb, a unit of electrical measure.

Ah - Amp hours (/1000= mAh)

Running the problem backward:

1000Ah * 3600 / 12V = 300,000 Farads

The voltage was for a common 12V battery since you do not specify what voltage you need.
Michael C /UltraCapacitors.org
END COPY
cat

Doug1 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 23, 2009, 02:56:41 AM »

Requirements would be 24 volts 208 amph 300 would be better. hi-low 27 volts< 20 volts dc.
One of these would be equal to one lead acid battery. If the cell can be good for 300,000 cycles that would be make the high price worth considering.

Doug1 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 23, 2009, 03:18:01 AM »

17280000 farad ?
The wheel would need to reinvented, too many caps.

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Author Topic: lead acid / lithium ion OR capacitor batteries off the shelf ?? (Read 22192 times)

powercat

lead acid / lithium ion OR capacitor batteries off the shelf ??

TechStuf

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powercat

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powercat

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powercat

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powercat

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Doug1

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powercat

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Doug1

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powercat

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Doug1

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Doug1

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