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Author Topic: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant  (Read 832536 times)

Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #645 on: April 14, 2009, 11:06:23 AM »
Quote from: hansvonlieven on April 14, 2009, 10:51:56 AM
You pay far too much attention to mathematics Omnibus,

The test of a system is experiment, nothing else!

When this is done mathematics can be pulled in to create an analogy to what is happening in the real world.

But that is all it is!

I am not saying mathematics is useless, far from it, but you must bear in mind it is only an explanation of the phenomenon, not the phenomenon itself.

Hans von Lieven

No, no, don't get me wrong. Far from it. I've always insisted physics makes mathematics, not vice versa. In this case, however, equations describing the phenomena at hand are claimed to have been pretty well studied. However, I'm not excluding the possibility that even these allegedly so well studied equation may yield something unexpected. It's for a physicist to look at the solution, though, because a mathematician, being a poet in science, usually tends to be carried away and would be satisfied by the beauty of the equation, never mind that it doesn't make physical sense. Some physicists are falling into this trap, unfortunately, and that has to change.
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hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #646 on: April 14, 2009, 11:07:38 AM »
Yes Omnibus,

there are a number of so called patents on the loose about this sort of thing. Frankly I don't think patent offices care anymore. As long as the prescribed wording is OK they will issue a patent. No-one checks, no-one cares about anything other than the fees.

For instance, just about anything Milkovic has patented was patented in the 1920's by George Constantinesco. Evidently the Serbian patent office is totally oblivious of that fact.

The Dutch patent office does not seem to be any better, nor is the USPTO.

The whole system appears to have become a lawyer's scam

Hans von Lieven
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hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #647 on: April 14, 2009, 11:09:04 AM »
Quote from: Omnibus on April 14, 2009, 11:06:23 AM
No, no, don't get me wrong. Far from it. I've always insisted physics makes mathematics, not vice versa. In this case, however, equations describing the phenomena at hand are claimed to have been pretty well studied. However, I'm not excluding the possibility that even these allegedly so well studied equation may yield something unexpected. It's for a physicist to look at the solution, though, because a mathematician, being a poet in science, usually tends to be carried away and would be satisfied by the beauty of the equation, never mind that it doesn't make physical sense. Some physicists are falling into this trap, unfortunately, and that has to change.

LOL Omnibus, I like the poet bit  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hans
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Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #648 on: April 14, 2009, 11:11:17 AM »
I see that I am in good company is proposing a gravitational wind that is blowing steadily downwards. None other than that canonised scientific saint, Newton himself.  ::)

"Remarkably, Newton himself does not seem to have ruled out the possibility of a perpetual motion machine. It is a little known fact that in his early notebooks under the heading "Quaestiones"[sic] Newton speculates that gravity (heaviness) is caused by the descent of a subtle matter which strikes all bodies and carries them down. "Whither ye rays of gravity may bee stopped by reflecting or refracting ye, if so a perpetual motion may bee made one of these two ways." Adjacent to these words, Newton added two sketches of perpetual motion powered by the "flux of the gravitational stream".
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hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #649 on: April 14, 2009, 11:11:52 AM »
Quote from: mindsweeper on April 14, 2009, 10:58:15 AM

@ Hans

Do you think I should start another thread, perhaps take it over to Besslerwheel ?

There is already such a thread at besslerwheel Mindsweeper.

Hans
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Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #650 on: April 14, 2009, 11:15:13 AM »
Hans,

Do you have any of Constantinesco's patents. Would be interesting to take a look.
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #651 on: April 14, 2009, 11:22:44 AM »
Oké, i tried a new path..  Gears

Just a concept, full of mistakes  ;D ... I have to sweeten it still a little

 
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hansvonlieven

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #652 on: April 14, 2009, 11:26:11 AM »
Quote from: Grimer on April 14, 2009, 11:11:17 AM
I see that I am in good company is proposing a gravitational wind that is blowing steadily downwards. None other than that canonised scientific saint, Newton himself.  ::)

"Remarkably, Newton himself does not seem to have ruled out the possibility of a perpetual motion machine. It is a little known fact that in his early notebooks under the heading "Quaestiones"[sic] Newton speculates that gravity (heaviness) is caused by the descent of a subtle matter which strikes all bodies and carries them down. "Whither ye rays of gravity may bee stopped by reflecting or refracting ye, if so a perpetual motion may bee made one of these two ways." Adjacent to these words, Newton added two sketches of perpetual motion powered by the "flux of the gravitational stream".

Helmholtz, the guy who came up with the conservation of energy laws did not think that perpetual was impossible either, see below quote, which has been excised by science from his paper "Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft" (On the conservation of force)

One wonders why.

Hans von Lieven
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #653 on: April 14, 2009, 11:49:13 AM »
A slightly improved version,


It's just to show the concept..   


The trick is that you gear the wheel so that there are always more balls (Weight)  going down then there are going up.  So tho accomplish that, the path up must either be shorter or faster, prefarably both!!


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hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #654 on: April 14, 2009, 01:22:35 PM »
Quote from: mindsweeper on April 14, 2009, 09:17:55 AM
And this one with no polygons, works ok but in the real world?

There is a problem with WM2D with the ridgid joints,
So always only use pin joints,
Just use 2 pin joints, if you need to fix 2 things together.
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Grimer

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #655 on: April 14, 2009, 01:23:06 PM »
Quote from: hansvonlieven on April 14, 2009, 11:26:11 AM
Helmholtz, the guy who came up with the conservation of energy laws did not think that perpetual was impossible either, see below quote, which has been excised by science from his paper "Ueber die Erhaltung der Kraft" (On the conservation of force)

One wonders why.

Hans von Lieven

Force is only an alias for a unrecognised or hidden strain. I realised this years ago from my work on materials testing where what one takes as stress and what one takes as strain is quite arbitrary.
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Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #656 on: April 14, 2009, 01:33:34 PM »
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 14, 2009, 01:22:35 PM
There is a problem with WM2D with the ridgid joints,
So always only use pin joints,
Just use 2 pin joints, if you need to fix 2 things together.

Thanks, Stefan. That seems to fix the problem also with KAS's model. Wonder why is that? Probably the program treats the rigid joints as some kind of active elements.
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hartiberlin

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #657 on: April 14, 2009, 01:34:58 PM »
Quote from: Omnibus on April 14, 2009, 09:53:19 AM
Take a look at the calculated and displayed velocity and acceleration. There's something very confusing about all this. Someone should explain what's going on. Otherwise it's just a waste of time to model these contraptions. (see attached)

* Worker-1wVectors.wm2d

Again the rigid joint problem.
I just fixed this using 2 pin joints.
Then it behaves normal.

Never use RIGID JOINTs in WM2D.
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Omnibus

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #658 on: April 14, 2009, 01:40:22 PM »
Quote from: hartiberlin on April 14, 2009, 01:34:58 PM
Again the rigid joint problem.
I just fixed this using 2 pin joints.
Then it behaves normal.

Never use RIGID JOINTs in WM2D.

Correct. I saw that. Fixes also KAS's design. Have you noticed, when with rigid joint they seem to wobble slightly during the rendering process. Will have to try with that design I posted 20 or so pages back that we discussed with @mondrasek. Forgot what exact page that was.
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Cherryman

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Re: Sjack Abeling Gravity Wheel and the Worlds first Weight Power Plant
« Reply #659 on: April 14, 2009, 01:40:56 PM »
The key is that if you have a WM2D model, it should accalerate! Because otherwise you can't built in in real. The accaleration is "the force" you need to have it at least stay at a steady rpm in real life.  (Not to mention to hook up  generator)
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