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Author Topic: IT. Self Powering Motor  (Read 12486 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2016, 08:43:50 AM »
here is Terry's Movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlHIA2HWJXw
So we have an electric motor driving a generator that is running another electric motor?
But because of the large flywheel (energy storage device), the unit is self running?-even though it is plugged into the grid?
Sounds Chas Campbell.

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2016, 08:43:50 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2016, 09:38:58 AM »
Well... from that 12 minute "epic" video demonstration taken with a cellphone camera at very low resolution, without any measurements at all, and with some kind of radio playing music in the background underneath the amazingly noisy device... I am at least able to say this: I copied a few seconds of the audio from the beginning (after the ICE starter-engine was shut down) and a few more from the end of the video and ran them through a spectrum analyzer in Audacity, and it doesn't look to me like the flywheel is slowing down over that time frame. Of course I didn't analyze any of the audio from portions where the circular saw was running....

Oh well. At least in this case we know why he's not running his home and workshop on the contraption -- it's so noisy that the neighbours would complain!

(The video is over three years old..... it's a wonder that he hasn't been noticed by the MiBs and had his invention suppressed, his cellphone shut off, his computer wiped and his YT account closed.... isn't it?)

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Offline tinman

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2016, 11:12:30 AM »
without any measurements at all, and with some kind of radio playing music in the background underneath the amazingly noisy device... I am at least able to say this: I copied a few seconds of the audio from the beginning (after the ICE starter-engine was shut down) and a few more from the end of the video and ran them through a spectrum analyzer in Audacity, and it doesn't look to me like the flywheel is slowing down over that time frame. Of course I didn't analyze any of the audio from portions where the circular saw was running....

Oh well. At least in this case we know why he's not running his home and workshop on the contraption -- it's so noisy that the neighbours would complain!

(The video is over three years old..... it's a wonder that he hasn't been noticed by the MiBs and had his invention suppressed, his cellphone shut off, his computer wiped and his YT account closed.... isn't it?)

Quote
Well... from that 12 minute "epic" video demonstration taken with a cellphone camera at very low resolution,The video is over three years old


The video resolution and age seems quite fine TK to prove something to be real. :D
There has been far worse than that to prove things before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGQIckYRxGI


Offline ramset

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2016, 03:04:42 PM »
Tinsel
You are witnessing a Con in this Vid ,Thieves trying to steal from Terry ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlHIA2HWJXw

the very ugly side of humanity ![he was unaware at the time]

@Brad
The power input for a few seconds has been explained ,the Pony can't get it where it has to be to run
and the drive motor is being Baby'd and not abused by just smoking it up to speed on the mains from a standstill.

once running close to speed with the Pony it gets plugged in to bring it the rest of the way
then unplugged [after the wrestling match with other components]

then it does what it does forever with no input whatsoever ..[ while running a significant load ]
IT is a work in progress ....

I just wanted to clear that up

Oh and Tinsel,  he doesn't need any help testing....

Chet K





Offline sm0ky2

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2016, 08:00:19 PM »
I am at least able to say this:
I copied a few seconds of the audio from the beginning (after the ICE starter-engine was shut down) and a few more from the end of the video and ran them through a spectrum analyzer in Audacity, and it doesn't look to me like the flywheel is slowing down over that time frame.

and

Quote from: Ramset
then it does what it does forever with no input whatsoever ..[ while running a significant load ]

my mind is tossing between 2 thoughts on this one. i'll briefly touch on one topic, but I want to reserve my final judgment of this device until we have more useful data regarding the energy levels of the system.

that being said, my primal instinct tells me there are red flags all over the place here. I normally wouldn't give this sort of device the time of day. With all the 1000's of QuMoGens out there and none of them have been proven to do what their inventors claim they do.

Beyond my unexplainable innate hesitation to take this device seriously, I am noticing certain key qualities that might separate this
man's device from a lot of the others. Here is my perspective on some of those details::

1) This device - motors, flywheel, generator - they appear to be very well balanced, and spinning freely with very little mechanical vibratory disturbances. I mention this because your average run-of-the-mill QuMoGen is constructed from very shotty belts and pulleys
and the machines tend to bounce and wobble around quite a bit. you don't see that here. What you see is a very precise, and well crafted rotary device.

2) The effect he observes (or claims to observe) occurs at a specific, high-frequency. ( TK could probably tell us what that freq is)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   This presents a series of possibilities, in which a flywheel does not behave like the simple "storage" unit we normally consider it to be.
(what?) yes
Under normal conditions, a flywheel requires an amount of force to turn it. First, the moment of inertia must be overcome on this 400-lb flywheel.
Once turning, to cause it to rotate faster, more force must be applied.
This energy, or work (force over time) is stored in the form of Momentum. Rotational velocity x mass.
When a generator is attached, this subtracts from the force, or causes a force opposite to rotation.
Unless the Motor is supplying enough power to both maintain the speed of the flywheel AND turn the generator
the wheel will slow down. This is calculable amount of input power, that can be determined by the components of the system.
Pretty simple, cut and dry. We can find all our system losses, and the Flywheel simply acts as a storage medium.
Similar to a battery or capacitor in the electrical world. Which transfers the energy from motor to generator.

Now, what happens to a flywheel when conditions are not "normal"?
In the 90's, LM experimented on a device that captured ionic winds from a solar source and used it for propulsion.
the top of this engine, was for all intensive purposes, a gigantic flywheel.
What they found was, at certain RPM, relative to the diameter and mass of the wheel, in relation to the diameter of the shaft:
a mechanical resonant vibration would occur.

In Aeronautics we understand rotational turbulences, and generally see them as a problem.

What NASA found was, that separately from the gyroscopic forces, which can be made to relieve gravitational related friction on the shaft, these frequency-dependent vibrations were affecting the drive motor current draw in an unexpected way.
it was not following the expected electrical input curve of the motor+flywheel combination.
This made it difficult to operate that component of the system with consistency. But why?

Closer analysis revealed something was occurring between the shaft and the bearing. the tensor forces were oscillating with the vibrations. The motor was not experiencing a consistent torque. Thus fluctuations in the current draw.

To resolve this issue, NASA went with an impulse force solution. Where-in an (avg) force derivative over a change in time is taken to calculate the impulse force. This did not follow the standard linear curve of the motor.
a breakdown of a single rotation was observed to apply torque to the motor during one part of the rotation, and very little or no torque during the remainder of the rotation. Effectively lowering the duty cycle of the current draw through the motor.

This is just one of several abnormal conditions a flywheel can experience. This one in particular may have some relevance to this current scenario.

Here is another (although maybe slightly off topic): A flywheel has a specific frequency, at which it will emit audible Sound.
  a 'ringing' effect. as if you had struck a tuning fork.

Anyways, If this condition I described above, has anything to do with whats going on in the current device
There WILL BE a changing current reading through the Drive Motor - this is easy to test.



 

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2016, 08:00:19 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2016, 08:49:36 PM »
Impulse forces are different than constant forces.
While total energy remains the same, the two maintain an inversely proportional relationship with respect to time.
this is important, because we measure electrical power over time.
all of our (civilized) devices are time-derived induction devices. (there are different technologies that do not operate this way)
we use the power either directly, over time
or in cycles, based on a time-analysis.

impulse force from electrical power is the derivative of time.
like acceleration is to velocity.

we don't need all sorts of fancy force measuring devices, we can simply calculate the impulse force, and relate it to our motor
by observing the Momentum of the flywheel. We know its' mass, and we can easily find its RPM.

the Impulse force in Newton-Meters (N*m) translates to a Momentum of Kilogram-meters per second (Kg*m/s)
By a perversion of Newton's second law, which relates force to momentum, we establish that an impulse force
is equivalent to the change in momentum.

simply put, the average force applied over an interval of time, equals a change in momentum.
mv2-mv1
where m is the mass of the flywheel (In this case 400lbs)
v1 is the starting velocity (before impulse)
v2 is the final velocity (after impulse)
The interval of time is: T2 - T1, where T1 is the start time of the impulse, and T2 is the end time of the impulse.

How does this impulse translate directly to RPM? The impulse takes place in a shorter time than the total interval T
T = one rotation, in time.
Simply divide the period T by the impulse interval, and you have the % of the total period that the impulse occurs over.
If you Subtract the impulse time from the period T, the remainder is the part of the rotation that is not receiving an impulse.

When these two factors are balanced (meaning the impulse interval = 1/2T), the flywheel is said to be "synchronous".
Impulse intervals less than 1/2T are said to be "acute"
Impulse intervals greater than 1/2T are said to be "obtuse"

and for those of you who are habitually American, and can't stand to use Newtons and Kilograms.....

slug-feet per second (slug*ft/s) = poundforce-seconds of momentum (lbf*s)
one slug is (approx.) 32.174049 lbs or (approx.) 14.593903 Kg, under standard pressure and gravity.
It is a unit derived from the Foot-Lb, and is thus a self-described quantity. much like the Kg or Lb themselves.
Poundforce (lbf) is 32.174049 (ft-lb/s^2)
I could go on, but the whole mess of Ft-Lb-Sec measurements, slugs, hyls, dyns,
drives me insane,. it defeats the whole purpose of "SI", and at the end of the day we relate it back to SI anyways...
Poundforce (lbf) is 4.4482216152605 Newtons.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hope this helps.


Regarding the :IT

phase transition of the impulse may affect the physical "location" of tensor forces on the shaft.
(timing)
This may have some relation to the physical location of the belts in this particular set-up.
depending on shaft design, bearing mounts, etc. that may come into play.

Offline tinman

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2016, 12:38:06 AM »
Tinsel
You are witnessing a Con in this Vid ,Thieves trying to steal from Terry ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlHIA2HWJXw

the very ugly side of humanity ![he was unaware at the time]

@Brad
The power input for a few seconds has been explained ,the Pony can't get it where it has to be to run
and the drive motor is being Baby'd and not abused by just smoking it up to speed on the mains from a standstill.

once running close to speed with the Pony it gets plugged in to bring it the rest of the way
then unplugged [after the wrestling match with other components]

then it does what it does forever with no input whatsoever ..[ while running a significant load ]
IT is a work in progress ....

I just wanted to clear that up

Oh and Tinsel,  he doesn't need any help testing....

Chet K

Well looking at that video,i see no arcing at the brushed during the close up of the armature. This is telling me that no power is being delivered to the motor at all,and that tells me that the !so called! generator is actually a motor that is spinning the!what is suppose to be! motor.

Do we have any footage or pictures of the original setup?

Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2016, 12:38:06 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2016, 05:31:09 AM »
Tinsel
You are witnessing a Con in this Vid ,Thieves trying to steal from Terry ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlHIA2HWJXw

the very ugly side of humanity ![he was unaware at the time]

So he posts a video of it on his YT channel, three years ago, without any information about a "con" in the description, just claims of Free Energy?
Oh, maybe he forgot his password to that channel so he can't edit, delete or make further comments on it.

Yeah, right. Want to buy a nice Art Deco bridge in New York City? I can get you a very good deal on it....

Quote

@Brad
The power input for a few seconds has been explained ,the Pony can't get it where it has to be to run
and the drive motor is being Baby'd and not abused by just smoking it up to speed on the mains from a standstill.

once running close to speed with the Pony it gets plugged in to bring it the rest of the way
then unplugged [after the wrestling match with other components]

then it does what it does forever with no input whatsoever ..[ while running a significant load ]
IT is a work in progress ....

I just wanted to clear that up

Oh and Tinsel,  he doesn't need any help testing....

Chet K

Well, he certainly needs help with _something_, because he's not a bazillionaire and nobody, not even him, is running their homes, shops, labs using his device, nor are they helping to bring clean water to the thousands of children who die every week from dysentery and other easily preventable diseases due to lack of cheap energy and fresh water. What's his explanation for that? "Still in the development stage".... uh huh. Still sitting in his shed, rusting away, more likely.

You're right about one thing though... it's a CON all right. You are just confused about who is conning whom. You have someone sitting in the middle of Texas... BIG OIL's home state ... with a device that would put energy companies out of business in a hurry if only it were true. And he's posted a video of it three years ago, and talks about it on his website, he's not keeping it secret at all. Yet nobody is interested in it, nobody has broken into his compound and stolen his notes and prototype... well, maybe it's just too heavy to carry off or something.

Chet, your open mind is an endearing trait, but it should not be so open that the wind whistles through your head from ear to ear. It should not be so open that when you tilt your head your brain runs out your earholes. It should not be so open that rats can climb in and nest in there, fouling the streams of rational thought.


Quote
Oh and Tinsel,  he doesn't need any help testing....

In other words, he knows fully well that proper testing by an independent third party would demolish his claims and show the truth, and he isn't about to allow that to happen. His device isn't nearly as complicated as Wayne Travis's wet dream and would be very easy to test properly. Just be sure to bring your earplugs !!!



Offline sm0ky2

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2016, 05:54:25 AM »
want to test thing things?

put a multimeter across the pony motor. record volts, and Amps-over-time.
[He might want to practice starting it, so he doesn't waste energy with the pony motor during the tests]

turn off all the breakers in your house, except the one that powers the "starter motor" from the mains.
record the meter reading on the mains meter before and after.
add this to the energy recorded over time with the multimeter.
and you have a pretty good idea of the "input energy".

Next: apply a load that exceeds this total value.

That skill saw is a pretty good tester. just continue to cut a thick piece of wood, and you use infinite power.
You can test the saw by itself, using the mains meter on your house in a similar manner,.
shut off the house and everything else, so only one breaker feeds the saw.
This will give you a general idea of what it consumes cutting into different types/thicknesses of wood.

those meters are probably higher quality than anything most of us personally own.
That affects the billing of the largest industry in the world.
They go to great efforts to take accurate measurements of what we use.
And we can use them!!

He has two inputs, that are from different sources, which makes it... about as complicated as 2nd grade addition.
maybe throw in a little 3rd grade level multiplication problem.
and hell, if you run into a case where you need to divide something and get confused,
we'll help you with the math. We just need the numbers.

Also, it would be nice (Not from a lack of trust, but for Genuineity):
If it could be shown that there are no (hidden) additional inputs.

 






Offline sm0ky2

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2016, 06:10:29 AM »
we could assume he just plugs that (60kw?) big ass motor into the mains for just under a minute
hes adding about 1 Kw-Hr of energy stored into the flywheel.

you could probably run a lot of crap off that in a short video.
the other motor, seems to be plugged into the same attachment hes plugging everything else into, so the motor he plugs into the mains is also the generator??
that would mean that the smaller motor is taking energy from the flywheel and adding it back to the flywheel,
in what should be a very inefficient manner.

Also:
whats he doing with the 3rd phase? hmm


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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2016, 06:10:29 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2016, 10:40:30 AM »
...also.... what's inside the closed-off platform table it is sitting on?

Offline ramset

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2016, 10:53:26 AM »
Yes I know
There 's a ton of power moving in that flywheel but a 15 amp load at 110 Volts [in perpetuity ]  isn't flea farts...
But it is also maximum Load for the system and as such you can hear the load Bite the machine
and then it recovers and sustains



it sings to you like the sound most heavy high speed Brute force machines [huge industrial saws or mills ,Planers Routers etc ]or electric powered equipment do when they Bite a load ...or high speed tree shredders with huge flywheels you know how we all listen when we run a very powerful brute force machine at the Edge ?? so as not to abuse it ?

there's a lot in motion [energy] but its at the edge [self run edge] you can hear IT sing !

@ Brad not sure about the arcs on the commutator ,good point .......a video of it running in the Dark would be nice.

@ Tinsel
I could not agree more about your comments on the water and where it needs to go ,and Terry knows all about the Bad Guys
he is not concerned ...However   he is completely unaware of any FE guys [Stan Meyer Or Witts  he never even said the name Tesla once
My Red Flags are different than some ...the trigger words were completely missing [Conman Mumbo Jumbo]
Oh I have plenty of red flags I listen for  , any man with half a brain does !


He Knows I am not a businessman looking to steal from him ...

Well Honestly
I am not really sure he trusts anyone anymore...
 

 

Chet K
added for your question above
Concrete ...and yes I can see your Roley eyes
also No more Brains coming out the ears stuff
Gives me nightmares [I worry]














Offline sm0ky2

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2016, 11:44:10 AM »
15 Amp, 110V the flywheel could easily power that load for 30 mins

not much more than that, because at 30 mins you have used up the power supplied by the mains.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2016, 11:51:05 AM »
It is doing my head how that was recorded. It has vhs horizontal noise lines and it's being filmed off another screen (reflections appear) but then the whole thing seems to be shaking

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Offline tinman

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Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2016, 12:52:06 PM »
It is doing my head how that was recorded. It has vhs horizontal noise lines and it's being filmed off another screen (reflections appear) but then the whole thing seems to be shaking

Good old youtube video stabilizer

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: IT. Self Powering Motor
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2016, 12:52:06 PM »

 

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