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Author Topic: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor  (Read 11469 times)

Offline webby1

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Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« on: March 25, 2011, 07:36:49 AM »

It has a total of 36 sections\holders, each holder has 5 stacks of magnets with the same pole facing in, so that is 18 N and 18 S and they are set up in alternating polarity.  The two drive coils are offset by 5 degrees with approximately a 50-75% duty cycle, each coil is connected with a common leg to the center tap of a cap voltage splitter then each coil is fired from one side of the splitter and then the other via the commutator,  it can be either two splitters with the center taps hooked together and each coil running off of its own unit, or you can run the motor of just one splitter.

The holders are made from PVC pipe that I cut and drilled and then heated up to expand the opening so that the coils would fit thru, the coils are 32 ohm solenoid windings with a piece of soft steel core 1\2 inch by 2 1\2 inches.  It is about 27 inches in diameter and the magnets are just 1\2 inch disc ceramic magnets.

The simple thought I had on this design was to focus the magnetic field into the center of the holder so the coil would interact with it as if the focus point itself were the magnet, making a paddle wheel if you will but without having the solid magnet in the way of spinning and thus keeping all of the applied forces in the direction of rotation instead of having that push on the axle and housing part.  What you do get with this setup is a 3 way force function, the holder that the coil has just passed under will interact with the field within the core and produce a force, the holder at the far end will interact and produce a force of attraction and the holder at the back end will give a push all combining to extend the distance of interaction and maintaining a more consistent field strength.

This is a low RPM setup and so I had to make a crude 70:1 gear box to hook it to a conventional electric motor, running the two together, head to head if you will the input to Franken Motor was 12V at between .08 and .1A and the conventional motor was 6V at .27A and the two units were almost stalled, Franken Motor would keep bouncing forward whenever a contact was touched by a brush.

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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 10:20:23 AM »
Whoa!  That's awesome...

Homemade commutator?
PVC, wood, and glue construction, now that's what I call creativity.
Is that a screwdriver for an axle?  This is what happens when you
look at the local hardware store as a giant set of Legos...


Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2011, 02:18:54 PM »
Thanks.

One of many, IIRC or close to it, I made or around 25 commutators while playing with Franken buddy.

Not a screwdriver, a piece of aluminium dowel inside a piece of aluminum tube inside a PVC "T" connector with a screw going through then all so I can adjust the height, what I think you are seeing is the clamp I was using to hold the brush assembly in place.

This was after the second or third rebuild, I thought that I should take a picture just in case the next time I blow it up it is beyond repair.

Here is a close up of the commutator, I also tried using a disc unit and made a spring loaded brush assembly but the best results came from using the barrel and bent wire, shortly after this pic I started using two brush holders so that I could change the timing between the coils.

I have no funds, I have time, I have stuff lying around and I have ideas, so the trick is to redesign my ideas into what I can make out of what I have lying around.  I may not be very good or very fast at it but when one of them sort of works it puts a smile on my face for days.

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2011, 03:18:41 PM »
I may not be very good or very fast at it but when one of them sort of works it puts a smile on my face for days.
That's the spirit of invention...

So the conductors on the commutator are cut out pieces of copper foil glued to a piece of PVC?
Then fixed to the "Arm"-ature?  How fast will it go?  Looks like the magnet rings are pieces of pipe too.
Its a good way to learn motor theory.


Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2011, 05:16:45 PM »
copper tape actually.

Yes, the holders are PVC that I drilled, cut and then heated up to open them far enough for the coils to clear.

Running speed, well at 24V .006A it would make about 60 RPM, at 12V .006A it would make about 50 RPM at somewhere around 60ishV it would hit somewhere above what I could count, maybe 300 rpm,, but then it would also like to blow up the armature.

When I would "tune" it to run in what I call super Cruz mode it was 24V at  anywhere between -.003A to +.003A and would run from a 14000mfd cap for 2 to 5 minutes at about 60 rpm.

I took a bunch of power measurements but I do not trust them because I only had one meter in the end to use, I destroyed my two analog meters while testing and the Fluke 77 that was still some what usable kept getting zapped and would give all sorts of strange readings.  I bought a cheap dvom but couldn't use it, it would tell me that my delivery caps were running at 240V when the Fluke would tell me they were at about 10V, neither meter gives me these problems when not used on Franken Motor so I am assuming that there are large EM pulses at play here.

I see some interesting possibility's with this design but I am not able to take it much further do to lack of ability, so I posted it here just in case someone here that is much better than myself wanted to take it and run with it.  I will however keep playing with it from time to time.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2011, 05:16:45 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2011, 05:39:15 PM »
neither meter gives me these problems when not used on Franken Motor so I am assuming that there are large EM pulses at play here.
Yeah, that is the switching transients kicked up a notch by the long wires.  Plus there is no shielding, or transient suppression devices (caps, MOVs).  Putting some filter caps parallel with the supply should calm down the transients.

You have healthy curiosity, so you can probably take this a long way, even if you don't think you can.  The future will bring new opportunities.  Wish you the best...

Here is a shoestring budget project I did about 12 years ago...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4135.msg77962#msg77962

When I wired all the coils in series the voltage was around 180 VAC, but hardly any current because of the large clearances between the coils and magnets.  It did shock the fork out of me once...

Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 06:23:40 PM »
I like transients, they can make you tingle all over.

Nice generator.

Not sure if you tried this, but if you take a relatively large cap and hit it with a high voltage input pulse it will drop the voltage down for you and then using say like a zenor diode to fill another output cap and stop to much voltage on the main cap from building up.  I have used this setup in a full wave voltage doubler to absorb the fly back\transient voltage spikes for various pulse motors including Franken Motor, but instead of taking the transients out I dump then right into the cap voltage divider that is feeding the motor,, multitasking at it's best.

I tried to use a pre-cap between my source and delivery caps with a 30 ohm resistor in line to give a small voltage drop between source and delivery, didn't help, then I tried to use diodes between the pre-cap and everything and that didn't help, tried using just a straight voltage drop to determine amperage with and without a cap across the resistor, didn't help.

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2011, 06:23:40 PM »
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Offline z.monkey

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2011, 07:21:50 PM »
I like transients, they can make you tingle all over.
LOL!

What about an RF Filter.  Two inductors in series with the supply, on and then put a cap on each side.  This schematic is an electromechanical inverter.  The RF filter is the combination of L1, L2, C2, and C3...

Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2011, 08:57:59 PM »
I have a hard enough time using a diode correctly <<BEG>> seriously I have to use my meter if its been more than 1\2 hour to make sure I put it in correctly.

Well I thought that it would be cool to use a solid state control system and all that kind of stuff using a rapid square wave during the on cycle, but that is beyond my ability, just like building a fancy decoupled testing system.  Maybe this filter setup I could manage.

I am not so sure of how much I need to know, exactly.  I just need to know if and how it compares to a conventional motor, that is why I built the gearbox and compared things that way and found out that at low voltage input Franken Motor works much better and at higher voltage it looses that advantage and even higher it just seems to suck, conclusion is that I need to try a lower\higher resistance winding and see what they do.

Offline z.monkey

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 12:30:25 PM »
Maybe this filter setup I could manage...
conclusion is that I need to try a lower\higher resistance winding and see what they do...
You can use your homebrew coils for inductors, and any cap (or caps), play with the combination...

Toy with it.  Also if your only pulling 5 or 6 Milliamps, then the wire probably needs to be bigger...

Ever get to look at the waveforms with an oscilloscope?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2011, 12:30:25 PM »
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Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2011, 01:41:12 PM »
Nope.

My connections are made using the spare cat5 wire I have lying around.  The coil that I wound for it is made out of something close to 20G I think,  it's a little smaller than the cat5 stuff.

I had an person come by and look at it a while ago, he told me that he had the backing of the company he works for and that they would do all the tests and building of proper prototypes and such, well time went by with out a word and then I was finally informed that his boss changed his mind.

While I was waiting for that bit of news I made my "dual rotor useless motor" I made it out of a transformer, it has no case torque, its not very efficient but fun anyway.

Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2011, 05:15:53 PM »
Over the last few days I have repaired Franken Motor, somewhat, and decided to run with the commutator that I don't like and I thought that I would try a couple of 0.4 Ohm resistance coils.

With the .4 ohm coils and feeding it somewhere around 24V I saw a draw of 2A to 1.5A but the power supply I was using was only rated for 20W so the amp and volt readings were all over the place until I blew the thyristor in the power supply.  Franken Motor spun up nice and fast however, so fast that the two arms were just a white blur and it seems as tho the power and speed help to settle down the commutator a little bit, but it still has a high drag and several snaggy bits.

Dropped back to the 32 ohm coils and running on 28V got it down to 15ma, I am running with diodes everywhere between the power supply (I fixed it) and the delivery caps and my meter is not getting hit so bad but I am still planning on trying the filter z.monkey suggested and sooner or later I will make a different commutator and brush assembly.

When applying a resistance to the shaft, the arms and holders start to dance about noticeably and so with this testbed I am not sure how accurate a torque reading would be.


Offline mscoffman

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 08:07:19 PM »
webby1,

If your gearbox is robust you could try using a used
stepper motor like from a scrapped printer, as a
generator. They are suppossedly pretty efficient
in that mode. They do cog some. You would use an
ohmmeter to figure how the coil connections are made
and use shottky power diodes to "or" them together.
Who knows maybe it will self-run. Of course when a
generator has an electrical load resistance the shaft
gets harder to turn.

Also it should be possible filter out all pulses for accruate
DVM voltage readings with big fat (high value) inductors
these are commercially availalble and look like
transformers, this will keep you from blowing your
test equipment out too. Input voltage pulses can take
out the diodes in AC mode even on mechanical meters.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 10:33:24 PM »
Not robust.

It is made from a head unit from a VCR which I turned to make a double pulley and a piece of aluminum that I turned and put a groove into, the belts are made from a vacuum cleaner drive belt that I cut to make small belts out of.

Here a couple of pics.

I have used this gearbox to run some crude comparisons but to do much more than that I think Franken Motor would need to be built a lot more robust itself, with all of the flexing of the arms and the holders I am giving up a lot of possible torque, combine that with the belts rubber band effect and I could be seeing as low as 1\2 of the power on the shaft under load.


Offline webby1

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 10:29:46 PM »
I found this pic, didn't remember taking any, of Franken Motor hooked up to a conventional motor.

It is hard to see the comparison motor in the pic because it is mounted inside the piece of wood pointing down, the one on the front is a tag motor so that I could read the output voltage from it and keep the two motors spinning at about the same RPM while comparing things, the connecting belt from the big pulley on Franken Motor is not on in the pic but the previous pics show the belt.

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Re: Franken Motor a virtual pole electric motor
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2011, 10:29:46 PM »

 

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