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Author Topic: How does Perendev's motor work?  (Read 72326 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2008, 05:32:06 PM »
@jimhit: I don't want to start up another SMOT thread, but in case you didn't know, the device has been studied since the 16th century, at least, in many many variations, including ones that are just like the one you showed in the video. There have been several nearly-perpetual SMOT threads on this forum alone. If you want to know why they are impossible, there is a LOT of material you can read. If you want to know why people think they are possible, all you will find is theory, diagrams, and non-functional models with lots and lots of magnets.

You also say:

"I also made a straight line Perendev type device using stator magents that were magnetized with poles on the sides instead of the ends.  It worked. "

It worked? Do you mean that it spun, or looped, on its own, without additional outside help? If that is true you stand to win a LOT of money. Why don't you show a video of your WORKING Perendev-type design, because NOBODY else has been able to do that.

You also say:

"Ok so what about magnetic heaters made by Mueller, Adams, and Reed?  Reed's patent states that for roughly 70000 btu's input ie. 20.5 kilowatts he obtained 270,000 btu's heat output.  I made one and am making a second and they appear to produce 3 - 4 times more heat than possible by the necessary electrical input. "

The key word here is "appear". Do you know much about calorimetry? Do you know how to measure power in pulsed systems? How are you calculating your input and output power? Don't you realize that if you had a system that put out 4 times as much heat than the electrical input would allow, that you could capture the excess heat and turn it back into electricity, using a simple Stirling motor/generator combo, and you would have "Free Energy"? Why haven't you (or anyone else working with these heaters) done that? I'll tell you why, for nothing: it is because your energy balance calculations and/or your measurements, are in error, and there's no excess energy there to be had.


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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2008, 05:32:06 PM »

Offline jimhitt

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2008, 08:26:45 PM »
Hero,

Have you  made a magnetic heater since you are so concerned with my understanding of calorimetry?  I get a gallon of 140 degree water in 2.5 minutes using 1800 watts input with a single phase motor starting with 58 degree tap water.  A three phase motor which I will use on the next model will increase the result.  OK, I'll do the math for you as I'm not sure of your skill in this science. 

1800 watts should give 6100 btu's according to your theories. Since a btu is 1 pint increased 1 degree Fareinheit this equates to over 15000 btu's per hour.  Look, I'm not a scientist, I'm just taking the most simple ideas and testing them.  Any bozo can replicate this if they can overcome their preconceptions.  Rather than blow smoke make your own magnetic disk heater.  It's simple enough.  You can use your own calorimetry and prove me wrong.  And, yes I would expect that using a heat engine or a disk turbine that the device could be configured to run itself.  Hell, you can be the first.  It'll make you famous.

Ok, you're so sure that the Perendev motor is such a scam now you can test it.  As I said earlier I have not built a prototype.  I did build a straight line flat device.  But if you take north south end pole magnets on the bottom board at a roughly a thirty three degree angle and place a second board above them with side pole magnets at an angle equal to one magnet width, it will propel itself for as long as you extend the lower magnets. 

I used 1/2 inch by one inch long neodymium magnets.  Three magnets wide in rows roughly one inch apart. The magnet ends' verticle width at a 33 degree angle are roughly .42 inches wide when viewed straight down from above  So I spaced the magnets' holes adjacent edges .84 inches apart.  I used a pencil for wheels.  Took all of 25 minutes to make with a hand drill and a couple of pieces of weathered deck board.

'll try to create a diagram for you of what I did.

Face of board 1, magnets with north south poles on the ends signified by the pole that shows on top, north.  The holes were drilled with a thirty three degree angle to the left as the diagram is presented.   I've used nn to signify one magnet so that the side poles could be presented comparably in the second diagram.  The distance between magnet holes left to right (edge to edge - not center to center) is .84 inches (2 magnet widths):         
                    .84 inches
                           V 
nn    nn    nn    nn    nn
nn    nn    nn    nn    nn
nn    nn    nn    nn    nn

The second upper board was drilled as shown below using the same 33 degree angle to the left, and roughly 1 inch spacing between the rows, and .84 inch spacing between magnets in each row.  However this board was drilled with each row offset one magnet width farther forward than the one next to it. What you are seeing is the top view of the layout.  It does not show that the holes are drilled at a 33 degree angle to the left.  I put magnet shielding under these magnets on the end of the magnet.  To insure scientific integrity I secured it with duct tape.   With side poled magnets the end is the side and can be shielded.  The poles are on the sides not the ends.

.84 inches
     v
ns    ns   
   ns    ns                  >>>Direction of travel top board>>>
      ns    ns

The board propels itself to the right completely off the lower board's magnets with no obvious pull back at the end of the track.  But as I said, I used a pencil for a wheel and the device slid the forward end of the board on the lower board.  The magnets cost around $30 so you should be able to afford the magnets to try this on your own without incurring an excessive run up of your credit balances. 

I believe that this uses exactly the same  principles as the Howard Johnson motor with a minor variation of magnet shape.  I am accomplishing the same result with shielding.  Howard Johnson reportedly created a working model, but it was rumored to have been stolen.  I am sure you will say it was all just a scam. Perhaps this is a SMOT.  I really don't know, but it is a unidirectional magnetic push, which you claim is impossible, not that I care much for your opinion at this point.  But, to show that I bear you no animosity go ahead and replicate this and post your own video.  I'm busy, and this lesson is concluded.  Though I doubt you have appreciated it, perhaps others have.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 12:14:47 AM by jimhitt »

Offline Light

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2008, 09:44:45 PM »
"I did build a straight line flat device".
- Would you please show picture or schematic, the liner movement completely different from circular.
Thank you.

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2008, 09:44:45 PM »
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Offline jimhitt

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2008, 11:20:24 PM »
"I did build a straight line flat device".
- Would you please show picture or schematic, the linear movement completely different from circular.
I understand that this diagram leaves a bit to the imagination, but it's the best I can do with the time I can spend on it.  I have enclosed the board diagrams with edges to perhaps make this easier to visualize.  The bottom board side view shows only the first magnets.  There are two more rows that would be on the other side if I could show perspective.  The first two board diagrams are the  bottom board of the device.  I am repeating the descriptions from the prior post plus have added a bit more description.

The second (lower diagrams) are the top board of the device.  The side view actually shows all the magnets as I used only three rows of two offset by one magnet width each row.

Face of board 1, magnets with north south poles on the ends signified by the pole that shows on top, north.  The holes were drilled with a thirty three degree angle to the left as the diagram is presented.   I've used nn to signify one magnet so that the side poles could be presented comparably in the lower diagrams.  The distance between magnet holes left to right (edge to edge - not center to center) is .84 inches (2 magnet widths):         
     
Top Face of Bottom Board - 1.5 feet long-not scaled                 Side view of bottom board - not to scale (15 holes 33 degree angle to left)   
____________________________________                               ___________________________________________
I   nn    nn    nn    nn    nn                          I     8 " Wide            I         nn    nn    nn    nn    nn                                  I 1 " thick
I   nn    nn    nn    nn    nn                          I                              I      nn    nn    nn    nn    nn                                   I
I   nn    nn    nn    nn    nn                          I                              I    ss    ss    ss    ss    ss                                      I  represents 1 magnet   
I____________________________________I                              I ss    ss    ss    ss    ss                                        I
                                                                                              I___________________________________________I
Shows magnet end only^^                                                       Shows sides of magnets^^^

The second "upper" board was drilled as shown below using the same 33 degree angle to the left, and roughly 1 inch spacing between the rows, and .84 inch spacing between magnets in each row.  However this board was drilled with each row offset one magnet width farther forward than the one next to it. What you are seeing is the top view of the layout.  The diagram on the right shows that the holes are drilled at a 33 degree angle to the left.  I put magnet shielding under these magnets on the end of the magnet.  To insure scientific integrity I secured it with duct tape.   With side poled magnets the end is the side and can be shielded.  The poles are on the sides not the ends.

Top of Top Board - shows top ends of magnets                   Side view of top board - not to scale  (6 holes are 33 degree angle to left)
_______________                                                                        _____________________
I   ns    ns            I   8 " wide                                                        I        /ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/ |   1 " thick       
I     ns    ns          I         >>>Direction of travel top board>>>          I      /ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/     |    represents 1 magnet
I        ns    ns       I                                                                      I    /ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/      |                 
I_______________I                                                                      I_/ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/ns/_____|  < Shows sides of magnets
Top end of magnet                                                Shielding  >>>>   =============

Not sure if this clarifies anything.  I found this video very helpful in visualizing magnet spacing and seeing intuitively why it should work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txYnzn1tGnA&feature=channel_page

Final configuration:
____________
|____________| >>>top board>>>>> direction of travel>>>>
_____o______________<<<<round Pencil
|___________________|    bottom board- Stator







                                                                                                 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 03:29:59 AM by jimhitt »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2008, 12:47:25 AM »
Ya gotta love it.
Somebody claims to be able to make a SMOT run forever, and that they have an overunity water heater that they can, "I'm sure" hook up to itself and make it run itself.
But this somebody just can't be "arsed" to actually do it.
I guess they are just too busy drawing pretty pictures to actually close the loop in all their overunity devices. They would rather challenge ME--instead of just DOING IT.

PROVE ME WRONG, jimhitt. Show what you've actually got, not a bunch of numbers and drawings. Show that your device actually does make that much heat, that you can recover it using, heck, a steam engine if it's really that much OU. Win all those prizes.

PROVE ME WRONG.

Otherwise, we'll just have to conclude that there really isn't a working Perendev motor, nor is there a closed-loop SMOT, nor is there an overunity water heater.

(BTW--I never said a unidirectional magnetic pull was impossible. It's easy, I've done it myself many times. What I said was that it was impossible to close the loop and make a self-runner SMOT. If you are going to quote me, you should try to get it right.)

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2008, 12:47:25 AM »
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Offline jimhitt

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2008, 02:49:48 AM »
Ya gotta love it.
Somebody claims to be able to make a SMOT run forever, and that they have an overunity water heater that they can, "I'm sure" hook up to itself and make it run itself.
But this somebody just can't be "arsed" to actually do it.
I guess they are just too busy drawing pretty pictures to actually close the loop in all their overunity devices. They would rather challenge ME--instead of just DOING IT.

PROVE ME WRONG, jimhitt. Show what you've actually got, not a bunch of numbers and drawings. Show that your device actually does make that much heat, that you can recover it using, heck, a steam engine if it's really that much OU. Win all those prizes.

PROVE ME WRONG.

Otherwise, we'll just have to conclude that there really isn't a working Perendev motor, nor is there a closed-loop SMOT, nor is there an overunity water heater.

(BTW--I never said a unidirectional magnetic pull was impossible. It's easy, I've done it myself many times. What I said was that it was impossible to close the loop and make a self-runner SMOT. If you are going to quote me, you should try to get it right.)

That does sound oddly like a challenge from someone incensed that I would question their all knowing expertise and throwing accusation that I have challenged them rather than prove my point.  Unlike you I don't know that closing the loop is impossible, so there is a chance I'll be able to.  But, I'll not be proving anything to you Koala.  You are obviously quite certain in your opinion, I would not like to be the cause of any upset to you and confuse you with any facts that ruffle your sensitivities. 

Things take time; I am doing this for my own benefit.  I would hate to have it be at your expense.  I am still perfecting the heater to transfer the heat to a water to air heat exchanger.  There is a great deal more to making something from scratch with only hearsay as guidance than proving anything to people.  It's not about you.  It's about sharing information that appears factual while it is being discovered so that others can attempt the same or similar efforts and hopefully benefit as well.  Your certainty with no factual basis is enough for me to realize that I am not writing to you. 

Others will no doubt find my meanderings of interest.  Since I have started investigating actual reported energy devices that are claimed to work in free energy sites and attempting to replicate the simple ones there are always those skeptics who have created nothing who stand on the sidelines and heckle.  For the record, regardless of actual results, MagTec Energy of North Dakota makes commercial diesel powered construction and offshore oil well magnetic heaters they claim are 95% efficient with motors that are at best 35 % efficient.  Neat trick, huh.  But don't let that sway you.  Never mind that the patent office verifies claims in patents before granting them.  Troy Reed and the patent office were unfortunate to not have had your expertise when the patent was granted otherwise they would have realized their calorimetric error.

And of course a minor measurement error is responsible for the undoubted error in my and their BTU calculations.  And of course I should rush to verify my results to calm your sensibilities.  I should prove my statement to the satisfaction of you and your ilk.  People who despise observation as vehemently as you appear to should take up astrology rather than post to forums where others are genuinely interested in finding new ideas to benefit humanity.  Suppression by self serving saints and sages has always impeded human progress.  But no one is foolish enough to buy your blather.  Fearful perhaps, that's why everyone posts their discoveries under pseudonyms.  Should I expect a visit soon from the thought police? 

Skepticism and sarcasm are not effective encouragement, though I am sure you wish to appear well meaning.  Undoubtedly your goal for this forum is to reach a consensus that challenges no conventionally accepted principle.  We should always doubt and question the very goal of this forum to share information on working devices or principles that improve humanities lot.  This could lead to an unfortunate power shift toward freedom instead of slavery.  Self direction instead of listening to self serving fools whose only promise is that you'll not have to think, just serve.  The power elite loves you hero. 

Go back to sleep.  The world is still flat; the sun revolves around the earth.  No one will consider anything I've written here.  My god you have hundreds of posts to my mere handful.  You're the expert.  No one will challenge you or doubt your sincerity.  Your kindness in the face of my obvious inexperience has been overwhelming.  Call the power elite and let them know they are still in charge.  We are lemmings awaiting your permission to think for ourselves.  You have cornered the market on doubt; no one will consider anything except carbon based fuels. 

I do not know if the Perendev motor works, yet.  But I believe that my observations are valuable to those folks who are honestly investigating it.  Certainly they are more valuable than your inveterate skepticism.  I've not heard anyone else suggest the magnet configuration that I shared in this forum.  I'll not apologize for it nor take your criticism as anything other than what it is, an attempt to thwart honest investigation; much as your outrage at my impudence is designed to prevent others sharing information.  I do know that the magnetic disk heater works as other researchers have said it did.  I do not nor does anyone else care if you agree or not.  As for my drawings and numbers I know of no other way that honest men communicate.

Lets see, if I am right the fact that this will run indefinately in one direction should be useful.  Whether it can be looped is an open question.  But work is defined as the ability to move a weight, over distance, in a certain amount of time.  My device is doing work.  I am doing work with magnets with this design.  Something that has been claimed to be impossible.  Let's see we could make a childrens toy, a train that moves on its own.  Perhaps it would even go around a corner.  If not that then a drag strip with little cars, no curves necessary.  But the point is the configuration I have enumerated here will allow you to access work using magnets.  Doesn't that torque you?

You remind me of a quote attributed to Menkin, " A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds."  Fortunately, that is not a weakness that I share with you.

Regards,
Jim
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 01:17:33 PM by jimhitt »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2008, 04:07:28 AM »
All you have to do to shut me up, jimhitt, is to show a single overunity device that actually functions.
And you are wrong about the patent office having to verify claims.

You think I am suppressing your creativity? You think it is because of people like me, that there aren't any free energy devices out there? You think I am trying to "thwart honest investigation?"
You are wrong about that too.

You should be grateful to me, because I am trying to steer you away from frauds and time wasters, so that you can spend your creative juices on something that might have some chance of being worthwhile. SMOTs and SMOT-like devices fail on first principles; there is no need for complex and error-ridden analyses, nor clever and (not so) new magnet configurations. Do I have to do your homework for you in order to show you that your "new" configuration isn't actually new at all, but has already been tried before without success?

But you obviously don't have to listen to me. Just go buy some more magnets and stack them up, and when you get something that runs itself, I will be happy to apologise to you and eat my hat.

PROVE ME WRONG. You are the one making claims. Prove them. Don't let an Evil Skeptic like me thwart you. Prove me wrong.

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2008, 04:07:28 AM »
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Offline wizardofmars

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2008, 06:53:54 AM »
For the record, regardless of actual results, MagTec Energy of North Dakota makes commercial diesel powered construction and offshore oil well magnetic heaters they claim are 95% efficient with motors that are at best 35 % efficient.  Neat trick, huh.  But don't let that sway you. 

Is this the device you are referring to?

from http://www.magtecenergy.com/product/electric

Patent Pending: This product is currently patent pending. A patent application is on file at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

This is not a current production model. The Electric version is customizable per specifications, 6 month production lead time is required.


How does a 90% efficient magnetic electric heater indicate overunity? The sole patent application I can find for Magtec (CONTROLLED MAGNETIC HEAT GENERATION, CA #2532507, PCT/US2006/038370) doesn't indicate use of any electric motors.

Never mind that the patent office verifies claims in patents before granting them. 

False. from http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/documents/0600_608_03.htm

With the exception of cases involving perpetual motion, a model is not ordinarily required by the Office to demonstrate the operability of a device.

Offline jimhitt

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2008, 10:59:45 AM »
Wizard,

If I suspected you were at all interested I'd respond.  But you and TinselToes are comrades in skepticism and attack to prevent honest inquiry.  As I said earlier; the world is flat.  You are geniuses  Any fool except you knows that electric motors are beyond 35 percent efficient.  MagTec has made only one electric prototype and to my knowledge has not released specifications to it.  Their devices are diesel and gas powered.  While I'd expect most folks to know this, for your sake, I'll state the obvious.  Diesel and gas powered reciprocating engines are 20 to 30 percent efficient, but their claimed heater efficiencies exceed 90%.  Their pending patent's working principal is identical to Reed's.  As for efficiencies, we all know that there is no overunity just measurement errors.  That's why we are all here to be assured we are fools and you are geniuses.  All hail great Wizard.  Now go back to sleep.  God this site is rabidly anti-free energy inquiry.  Ok, Koala and Wizard proove you aren't articulate incompetents.  Without proof we will all just continue to think you are oil company plants, closed minded power elite schills intent on maintaining the old order not investigation. 

Ok everyone repeat silently to youselves the mantra ... there is no overunity only measurement errors....any claim of success must be met with skepticism and derision to prevent anyone else attempting it.  We'll tie their shoe laces with our criticism and castigate their inquiry.  Throw around tired old theories as gospel, thrust and parry.  We'll attack and drive them back to their reptilian brain, they'll be religated to those programmed robotic responses that originate in the amigdula.  We the all knowing all seeing compassionate elite are the experts here, no one must think for themselves, follow the yellow brick road, the great powerful Wizard of Mars will grant us courage, a heart, but no brain.  Oh look I think I see  the flying monkeys!

"The problem with smart people is that they like to be right and sometimes will defend ideas to the death rather than admit they’re wrong. This is bad. Worse, if they got away with it when they were young (say, because they were smarter than their parents, their friends, and their parent’s friends) they’ve probably built an ego around being right, and will therefore defend their perfect record of invented righteousness to the death. Smart people often fall into the trap of preferring to be right even if it’s based in delusion, or results in them, or their loved ones, becoming miserable. (Somewhere in your town there is a row of graves at the cemetery, called smartypants lane, filled with people who were buried at poorly attended funerals, whose headstones say “Well, at least I was right.”)

Until they come face to face with someone who is tenacious enough to dissect their logic, and resilient enough to endure the thinly veiled intellectual abuse they dish out during debate (e.g. “You don’t really think that do you?” or “Well if you knew the <insert obscure reference here> rule/law/corollary you wouldn’t say such things”), they’re never forced to question their ability to defend bad ideas. Opportunities for this are rare: a new boss, a new co-worker, a new spouse. But if their obsessiveness about being right is strong enough, they’ll reject those people out of hand before they question their own biases and self-manipulations. It can be easier for smart people who have a habit of defending bad ideas to change jobs, spouses, or cities rather than honestly examine what is at the core of their psyche (and often, their misery)."  Scott Berkun

« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 12:58:08 PM by jimhitt »

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2008, 10:59:45 AM »
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Offline Digjam

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2008, 11:41:21 AM »
How did this thread go from the Perendev motor to a diesel powered heater?
But you are right there in no Overunity.. There is plenty of free energy, but no overunity.
Simple proof .. Take a gallon bucket and put a gallon of water in it, I don't care how
hard you try, you can only pour a gallon out .
I'm a firm believer that someone will discover more efficient uses of energy, maybe even
a new source of energy, but unity is the best that will be achieved.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2008, 12:00:27 PM »
How did this thread go from the Perendev motor to a diesel powered heater?
(snip)

It got hijacked by a newbie who thinks that patent applications and crackpot claims trump thermodynamics and proper experimentation.


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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2008, 12:00:27 PM »
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Offline jimhitt

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2008, 12:26:19 PM »
unity is the best that will be achieved.

The earth has spun on it's axis for millions of years with no obvious source of external power.  We are surrounded by energy we do not know how to tap.  A rock has immeasurable internal movement to sustain it's existence, yet no one is supplying a source of external power as defined by our resident thought police.  Hell a wind generator is overunity - creates more energy that is supplied to operate it.  Closed minded certainty merely insures that new ideas die on the vine.  Well there is overunity we have just not yet believed it when it stared us in the face.  Supposedly when Columbus reached the new world, the ships were so far out of conventional experience for the natives that they literally could not see them.  Our "experts" are little better than primitive savages.  They can't see things outside the limited realm of their experience.  But why accept their blindness as the ideal.  We've all got 90% of our brain going to waste.  What the hey, lets kick in an extra 5% and change the world for the better.  Man is still very slightly developed in his potential evolution.  We are barbarians and superstitious fools with only slight understanding of the universe around us.  Certainty is a luxury for fools.  I actually know little if anything.  It is a great asset.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 02:14:40 PM by jimhitt »

Offline BEP

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2008, 05:51:12 PM »
I haven't seen it discussed so I'll drop my two cents worth on the topic of this thread.

My opinions ONLY>>>>>>


Most replication attempts do not consider one detail....

The magnets were housed in an aluminum casing. I promote the use of aluminum for a few reasons.
Al is paramagnetic, unlike copper. Most think Al and Cu are the same. Wrong.

Al has a unique ability to act in a focusing and magnetic conduction manor, but only when it is moving in relationship to the mag flux (notice I did not say 'field'). Argue to yourself. There is a difference.

You can purchase magnets in such a casing. The manufacturers provide them this way for a reason.

Another thought I've never been able to confirm... The rotor construction MUST be of electrically non-conductive material. This material should also contain a small amount of aluminum flake or ball material. This is common in many industrial plastics but usually only added as pigment.

And...

If you want rotation you must have three vectors of force/potential. The magnets are not doing the work. Magnets alone cannot produce energy and then power.

Magnets are not the source of the magnetic force. They only focus the ambient force. This is why closing a loop of magnets is worthless until you add a second and third vector.

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Offline jimhitt

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #43 on: December 29, 2008, 08:00:23 PM »

The magnets were housed in an aluminum casing. I promote the use of aluminum for a few reasons.
Al is paramagnetic, unlike copper. Most think Al and Cu are the same. Wrong.


I used .010 Magnet Shield for shielding.  http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html  I would like to find a non magnetic type shield as this does attract opposite magnets and creates drag.  Aluminum might be worth a try.  The bottom magnets I didn't shield at all though for a circular model I would guess it will be neccessary to focus the field.  In a circular device, the south poles are quite close together.  Magnets on the stator are harder to shield as one needs round shields.  I have not been able to find anything for this other than just steel pipe which may help direct the field somewhat.  None of the magnetic shielding companies I've investigated have a standard round pipe shape in shielding material.  The upper shielding is easy as it is flat.  I've considered having round shield fabricated from mu-metal, but imagine this would be quite pricey as it would then need to be re-annealed.  The later perendev pictures appear to use a round plastic like shield on the lower magnets, but I do not know what material this is.

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Re: How does Perendev's motor work?
« Reply #44 on: December 29, 2008, 10:57:21 PM »
I avoid the term 'shield' with magnetics. There is no such thing. Mag flux can be redirected, channeled, conducted. It cannot be stopped, unless you wish to try breaking the connection and using the reconnection (hopelessly advanced theory but recent scientific efforts are leaning this way).

Using any ferrous material for shielding will only redirect. The bogus but useful visualization of field lines will show you they stay connected no matter what you do.

Metals, like aluminum, act as nonferrous material when not in a moving flux and then act as ferrous when in a moving flux. I think this is as close as we can be to switching a magnet off and on.

The casing on the magnets I mentioned is generally very thick and cover all but one surface. I use a machine that incorporates such magnets. The magnets are cylindrical 2" in diameter and 1" long. All surfaces but one end is covered in about 1" solid Al. These are used to separate the lighter fast moving metal chips and still allow the heavier, slow moving chips to settle.

 

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