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Author Topic: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem  (Read 9725 times)

Offline Low-Q

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True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« on: October 30, 2010, 11:43:31 PM »
I have drawn a model of what I could think of as a true DC generator. All generators today are AC either internally with DC output, or both AC internally and output. I want to make a generator that produce pure DC current. No alternating magnetic fields, only a uniform and constant magnetic field which rotates around some coils. I can see only one big problem. In the drawing below, there will be a flux jump between A and B and therefor cross the windings in the green area between A and B. This flux jump will counteract the flux which is crossing the coil at the pink part. I want the flux to cross the pink part only. I have thought of a guide which is leading the jumping flux away from the green part of the coil, and direct it directly to the other side of the coil. The problem now, is that I cannot find a way to do this. No matter what I try, the jumping flux will some how cross the coils where I do not what them to cross...

Please look at the drawing below and ask if there is something I havent explained or visualized good enough in the drawing.

Br.

Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline FatBird

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2010, 02:28:45 AM »
ALL Pre 1955 US cars had REAL DC Generators with a Commutator and Brushes.

Ebay has HUNDREDS of them for sale.  Why reinvent the wheel?

Cheers

Offline Low-Q

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 11:41:36 AM »
ALL Pre 1955 US cars had REAL DC Generators with a Commutator and Brushes.

Ebay has HUNDREDS of them for sale.  Why reinvent the wheel?

Cheers
As I said, all generators are initially an AC generators. The coils are always providing AC, but in a conventional DC generator, the commetators and the stationaty brushes will rectify this AC into DC. I want to make a brushless DC generator wich operates with DC both internal and external.

Vidar

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2010, 11:41:36 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2010, 09:19:31 AM »
Hi,

I think I have solved the problem. The next drawing is now quite different. After a few hours of thinking what might go wrong, I have concluded, this far, with the following:

The magnetic flux leaves point A (From the North iron disc) and crosses the coil B windings inside the iron guide, and exits the coil B center to follow the iron bridge C over to the other side. The flux enters the coil D in center, and must cross the windings through coil D in order continue along the iron guide down to the iron disc at point E.

The occouring flux jump which will occour between the iron guides will follow the iron bridge directly and contribute to charge the coils instead of counterforce them.

Now this is a brushless generator which delivers pure DC with no ripple (?)

I wonder what will happen if we power the coils with DC and make an electromagnet out of them. Will the magnet disc start spinning? Further, what will happen if the coils are replaced with permanent magnets???


Offline petersone

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 11:09:35 AM »
Hi Low-Q
Unless I'm misunderstanding it,there is no change in the flux,which is needed to generate,as flux cannot continually increase,or decrease forever,ac,or at least rippled dc must result.
I reserve the right to be totally wrong.
peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2010, 11:09:35 AM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 04:21:01 PM »
Hi Low-Q
Unless I'm misunderstanding it,there is no change in the flux,which is needed to generate,as flux cannot continually increase,or decrease forever,ac,or at least rippled dc must result.
I reserve the right to be totally wrong.
peter
That is something which has crossed my mind too. On the other hand, there is a reason why Eddie currents occour in a rotating metal disc inside a uniform magnetic field - the Faraday generator. There are no change in the magnetic flux, but electricity are made anyways.

I have a small hope that the coils in my idea are an "equivalent" to the rotating disc, but instead of using brushes on the rotating metal disc to harness the energy, my idea are to do this brushless.

I have been looking for a way to force the magnetic flux to enter/cross a coils windings, but exit the coil without crossing the windings the opposite direction. If this can be realized, this pure DC generator can provide energy with higher voltage and lower current, with less loss due to no brushes and low currents - the opposite of the Faraday generator.

This generator can also be one of those which cannot work as an electric DC motor - as the Faraday generator CAN. However, IF it could be used as a brushless electric DC motor, it would not take long  for a permanent magnet motor to be realized...

So i have two guesses of the outcome:

1- It will not work as both a generator and a motor

2- It will work as a generator, but not as a motor


Vidar


Offline Lunkster

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2020, 10:33:55 PM »
I think that just because something was done many years before, it is helpful to have many eyes look at it again.  With new materials that have been  introduced into the market places along with the new technologies and new understanding in the sciences, the old designs may benefit from these things.  I added a file of what I think a true DC generator would look like.  I see applications where the AC generator makes sense at the same time where DC generators make more sense.  If and when we get to commercialized self-contained power generation systems, the motor and generator will be combined into one device. 

The Lunkster

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2020, 10:33:55 PM »
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Offline onepower

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2020, 05:45:25 AM »
LowQ from October 30, 2010
Quote
I have drawn a model of what I could think of as a true DC generator. All generators today are AC either internally with DC output, or both AC internally and output. I want to make a generator that produce pure DC current.

I thought this was strange enough it deserved a response...

In fact all of the first electrical generators were true DC and there was no such thing as AC, it simply did not exist until it was invented later on. Not unlike the fact that all the first vehicles were electric because there was no such thing as a fossil fueled engine or fossil fuels like gasoline or diesel. In this respect it pays to do the research, educate ourselves and follow the time line of where a given technology started and where it is now.

In fact the first generators I built from scratch were true DC generators such as the Bennet doubler, Pfaff multiplier, a Wimshurst and then a 300 kV Van De Graaff. It was only after I learned the basics of what electricity is, how it actually works and how it was generated that I moved on to AC generators. As it were, I also found it easier to simply scratch build my own AC generators based on what I learned from reading Robert Adams work because our present off the shelf AC motor/generators are a joke. They are designed to hard couple to the grid sacrificing efficiency for simplicity not generate power at peak efficiency.

It's important to understand what we normally do and understand as "popular" or "normal" is not the only way of doing things. In fact it is this populism and adherence to a supposed warped sense of normalcy which inhibits our growth as beings in my opinion. We have options... use them.

Regards

Offline AllanV

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2020, 06:21:23 AM »
LowQ from October 30, 2010
I thought this was strange enough it deserved a response...

In fact all of the first electrical generators were true DC and there was no such thing as AC, it simply did not exist until it was invented later on. Not unlike the fact that all the first vehicles were electric because there was no such thing as a fossil fueled engine or fossil fuels like gasoline or diesel. In this respect it pays to do the research, educate ourselves and follow the time line of where a given technology started and where it is now.

In fact the first generators I built from scratch were true DC generators such as the Bennet doubler, Pfaff multiplier, a Wimshurst and then a 300 kV Van De Graaff. It was only after I learned the basics of what electricity is, how it actually works and how it was generated that I moved on to AC generators. As it were, I also found it easier to simply scratch build my own AC generators based on what I learned from reading Robert Adams work because our present off the shelf AC motor/generators are a joke. They are designed to hard couple to the grid sacrificing efficiency for simplicity not generate power at peak efficiency.

It's important to understand what we normally do and understand as "popular" or "normal" is not the only way of doing things. In fact it is this populism and adherence to a supposed warped sense of normalcy which inhibits our growth as beings in my opinion. We have options... use them.

Regards



Hi, sometime ago and after some thinking about the magnetic field around a conductor two short pieces of aluminum 2cm diameter were rolled NOT spun between two speaker magnets. A model car differential was used and slip rings for brushes also. It was spun a bit slow probably but a voltage appeared. The aluminum conductors protruded out further than the magnets so they were trued up and then no voltage appeared.
It seemed that the field on the edge of the speaker magnet where it expands out was necessary. It varies in intensity through the rolling conductor and creates voltage.

It is still in the workshop. The next improvement is to have a tapered conductor 8mm one end and about 14mm or slightly more at the other. Because the magnetic field needs further to reach it should expand through out the taper.
Seven sets of laminated transformer steel to make 5-6mm could be spaced around the tapered conductor. the south pole needs to take one step and the north pole would switch between 4 one at a time and then the south would take a step and the north would again take 4 steps. And so on very fast. The magnetic field would always be progressing into new conductor material.

The taper would mean that current would flow into the different intensity. The speed at one end may need to be faster than the other to allow for the different diameters. It could be made solid state, but there was a plan to use strong small magnets.

regards,

Allan         

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2020, 06:21:23 AM »
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Offline AllanV

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2020, 06:30:30 AM »
ALL Pre 1955 US cars had REAL DC Generators with a Commutator and Brushes.

Ebay has HUNDREDS of them for sale.  Why reinvent the wheel?

Cheers

Hi, you're taking all the fun out of it for one. The magnetic field is very weak around a conductor and it may be possible to get welder voltage and currents cheaply.

Allan

Offline Lunkster

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Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2020, 03:30:41 PM »
I realized that my drawing made it look like I had a single wire going around the rotor.  I upgraded the drawing to show a coil going around the full 360 degrees of the rotor.  Now at the speed increase will that not increase the voltage?  Since the core of the coil is a toroid core so that the flux generated should remain in the core, shouldn't this reduce the resistance to generator as current is drawn for the applications of this generator?  It seems like the overall system of a DC generator feeding and DC device should be more economical than an AC generator converting it's output to DC in order to feed a DC device.

The Lunkster.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: True DC generator idea. Need help to solve a problem
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2020, 03:30:41 PM »
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