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Author Topic: Captret - Capacitor and Electret  (Read 296594 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #330 on: June 26, 2014, 01:22:59 AM »
Casstete:

You did repeat several claims, and I assume that you meant them.  Those claims when scrutinized properly fall flat.  For example, the pulse motor claim about drawing less input when there is greater output into the charging battery is a classic.  The people that do that are forgetting to account for the lost power as heat.

Some types of capacitors spontaneously self-charge.  There is energy in the air.  I think that is were the answer to the "captret mystery" could be found.

This is the thought experiment:  Someone has a nice bench experiment set up that they believe is over unity.  They call in someone for a second opinion.  That person makes proper measurements and gives a logical explanation for what is happening.

MileHigh

Offline casstete

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #331 on: June 26, 2014, 11:26:59 AM »
Casstete:

You did repeat several claims, and I assume that you meant them.  Those claims when scrutinized properly fall flat.  For example, the pulse motor claim about drawing less input when there is greater output into the charging battery is a classic.  The people that do that are forgetting to account for the lost power as heat.

----  the wheel spins faster ! and draws less , goes together yes -----

Some types of capacitors spontaneously self-charge.  There is energy in the air.  I think that is were the answer to the "captret mystery" could be found.

This is the thought experiment:  Someone has a nice bench experiment set up that they believe is over unity.  They call in someone for a second opinion.  That person makes proper measurements and gives a logical explanation for what is happening.

MileHigh

O for fucks sake , try and read yes . This device is tested by Cypriot Electrical PHD's who studies in renowned British Universities .

Cyprus has the 2nd highest academic population the world FYI and these guys tested iy ... not someone !

Then they left it for 2 MONTHS locked ( by mistake ) switched on ... and it is still running today 3.5 months later .

IF you make ANY changes to how many Leds are connected .. or remove one or the other capacitor it looses potential .

Yes there is energy in the air and yes capacitors always have potential when heated as they are chemical based as well .

I know this as a layman as well but the thing is they using a 12 V battery ( I told him ... maybe it's just cause it has more to offer that it runs longer ) but 3.5 Months ? still charging when using electricity ... all Lights ( 22 LED ) still shining bright .

The Battery only goes to 10 Volt so it's not even optimised .


The Captret is based on a Tesla Switch yes ? So the switch is just creating a potential " to be absorbed " BUT you have to create a receiver for this energy .

THIS is what has always been the problem , creating radiant energy from very little is easy .... capturing it or converting it is NOT .

Thats why Plants & humans + animals are designed the way they are , we are precursor engineered for such devices .

ALSO , is a 3 Volt Battery the same as a Lead Acid 12 V Bike battery ?

I was skeptical because I know the captret depletes .... but we had discussed atmosperic antennas placed in the circuit and also reverse tesla coils potential to absorb IF you have a ionised circuit ( i hope u get what i mean terminology may be off )

And the 12 Volt battery doesn't heat up absorbed energy .

Ok so point is .... heat of capacitors does not account for 3.5 month 22 LED brightly lit & 10 Volt constant recharge .

Does it . ONLY thing you can say is SHOW IT .

And that is true and I am working on getting him to make a second one as the prototype is locked away for holidays "still running "

regards




Offline casstete

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #332 on: June 26, 2014, 11:49:39 AM »
Casstete:

This is the thought experiment:  Someone has a nice bench experiment set up that they believe is over unity.  They call in someone for a second opinion.  That person makes proper measurements and gives a logical explanation for what is happening.

MileHigh

Thats exactly where you didn't read properly , the second part " call someone for second proper opinion " is the Cyprus Island wide comity of engineers who choose which project wins  ... they checked it and awarded the prize

AND they were told by my friend that it was based on IBPointless2 device ...  So it's not even me or my friend telling you this it's UK University educated PHD's ... who are still thick in my opinion but since that what you think is required ( in some respect i agree ) but in general they are totally brainwashed foold .

The longer you stay in school ... the more you become a indoctrinated fool

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #333 on: June 26, 2014, 03:54:55 PM »
I want to see some data that demonstrates this claim that "bedini motors run faster during the full moon."

Data that supports that claim would have to show RPM readings taken from a Bedini setup, powered by _the same regulated power source _, during each day of the monthly lunar cycle and would have to show a significant difference between the RPMs at Full Moon and at New Moon, at least. Where is this data? A single graph of, say, a year's daily samples should show the effect easily enough.

Where is the data to support this claim?

If you cannot support the claim with real data, you have no business making it.

Offline Qwert

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #334 on: June 26, 2014, 05:33:47 PM »
IBPointless2's device in combination with a Tesla coil ( reverse ) won a science fair for Students in Cyprus .


casstete, would you like to provide a link for this info? Thanks in advance.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #335 on: June 26, 2014, 06:20:39 PM »
Quote
The longer you stay in school ... the more you become a indoctrinated fool

Only on the Bizarro planet, where the objective is to become dumber the more you go to school.

I guess that you don't have direct access to the experiment and the data.  Where are you getting your information from?  I can't prejudge a specific experiment without access to the correct and complete information.

What I can say is that if a decent-sized 12-volt battery is connected to a string of LEDs in series, and the setup is just right, then the battery and the LEDs can engage in a "dance of death" and it's possible that the LEDs can remain dimly lit for a very long time, perhaps even months.  That could explain what was observed.

For the argument that the battery is being "recharged," I have seen countless experiments where the battery is clearly discharging but the experimenter notices a slight increase in the battery voltage during the test.  They then proudly proclaim that the battery is being "recharged."  It's possible that the same thing is happening in this case.

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret Demystified
« Reply #336 on: June 26, 2014, 06:45:46 PM »
The operation of the so misnamed "*captret" is easily explained if folks would just use a milliamp meter to measure the current drain of the battery. The battery is not being charged, rather the load on the battery is progressively decreased so the voltage rises.

If the battery were being charged, the milliampmeter would reverse sign. This is not the case.

What happens is this:

The "captret" configuration of using the outer case and the negative electrode presents initially a very leaky capacitor to the series circuit, more like a capacitor with a variable resistor. This initially creates a lot of current flow and slightly warms the battery activating the electrochemical output.

As the oxide layer is formed between the case and the negative electrode, the leakage decreases from initially about 300mA to the range of 1 to 5 mA. Even less leakage can be had if left on for a very long time, so an LED can be lit on less than 1 mA for a very long time.

Because of the reduced load on the battery, the battery voltage is seen to rise. This is a simple load line as the battery is not a perfect voltage source, and much less so when the battery is near the end of it's life.

There is no mystery here, just poor measurement technique and mis-observations of what is occurring.

You could  get the same "effect" with a variable resistor instead of the "captret" Use two nearly dead 9 volt batteries with about 7.5 volts each in series.

Adjust the potentiometer of the simple series circuit to simulate an initial 300mA current drain then over a few minutes reduce it to 1 mA current drain. Do this while observing battery voltage.

You will also see the battery voltage appear to rise due to reduced loading. This also is not recharging as the current meter never changes sign.

* This is a misnomer as the so called "captret" is actually a very poor electret in that it has way too much leakage to be any good, orders of magnitude more leakage than a good electrolytic or film capacitor. It's recovery is limited by this.

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Captret Demystified
« Reply #337 on: June 27, 2014, 11:12:33 PM »
Did a test on another capacitor in "captret" configuration monitoring current from a 10 volt source.

Initial current:        equivalent leakage resistance:
 
100mA                     100 ohms

One minute later:

10mA                       1000 ohms

Two Minutes

1 mA                        10,000 ohms

Three minutes

0.1 mA                     100,000 ohms

As the oxide layer forms the leakage resistance progressively goes up as current goes down.

At no time did the current ever reverse, even after one hour when the leakage was less than 0.1 mA. So there is no battery charging effect.

As I said in the previous post the "captret " acts like a variable resistor changing resistance upward over time hence presenting a much lower load on the battery from the initial connection.

The reduced current over time causes the battery voltage to increase giving the illusion that the battery is being charged....it is not.

A high brightness led fed from a 9 volt battery will be lit for a very long time  when operated at less than 0.1 mA.

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #338 on: June 29, 2014, 03:31:40 PM »
I want to see some data that demonstrates this claim that "bedini motors run faster during the full moon."

Data that supports that claim would have to show RPM readings taken from a Bedini setup

The SG is not a motor; it is a generator of radiant energy. The RPM is not relevant. The wheel's motion is to trigger the transistor.  It is the rate of charging of the battery that counts, taking into account the rate of discharge of the drivng battery.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #339 on: June 29, 2014, 03:46:13 PM »
Quote
The SG is not a motor; it is a generator of radiant energy.

It is not a generator of "radiant energy," that is complete nonsense.  The SG is a very crappy battery charger in terms of power-in to power-out efficiency.  It is typically only 30% efficient and 70% of the source battery power is lost as waste heat to make the wheel spin.

In the entire world of electronics, and electrical technology in general, the output from a discharging coil is never referred to as "radiant energy."

In your mind you probably think that there is something "amazing and different" about the "radiant energy spike."  Well the truth is that that is complete and total nonsense.

My suggestion to you is to learn about how a coil works so that you can understand why and under what conditions a coil can generate a high voltage spike.

It's time for you and many others like you to demystify this Bedini nonsense where he calls the output from a coil, "radiant energy."  That makes it sound like it comes from "somewhere else," possibly even the "vacuum."  The source of the energy for the voltage spike is the battery.

MileHigh

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #340 on: June 29, 2014, 04:37:17 PM »
It is not a generator of "radiant energy," that is complete nonsense.
Please provide the evidence for this remark.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #341 on: June 29, 2014, 04:45:22 PM »
Please provide the evidence for this remark.

Well, I have built several Bedini motors and ALL of them end up depleting the batteries after running for a period of time.  They are really cool and amaze my friends but, ALL of them destroyed my batteries (2 of them very expensive brand new motorcycle batteries) such that they could no longer be used in a conventional way.  I had very high rpm's and very high voltage spikes and could light up the neon but it appeared that the charging battery was only getting a "surface charge" and, despite what my meters were showing, they did not have any power at all.  I think this is typical of these motors from my reading.

I like John Bedini and I think he has done a lot of good for energy research and he appears to be a nice guy as well.  The above is my own experiences from my own experiments and anyone can watch my videos if they so choose.

Bill

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #342 on: June 29, 2014, 05:17:36 PM »
Paul:

Quote
Please provide the evidence for this remark.

Sure, the coil gets energized by the source battery.  The coil stores the energy supplied by the battery.  That's how coils work.

Then when the transistor switches off, the coil discharges into the charging battery.  It could be a low voltage spike barely above the nominal voltage of he charging battery, or it could be a high-voltage spike if the battery is dead and sulfated.  That's how coils work.

The output voltage of a discharging coil depends on the nature of the load it's connected to.  In theory, an ideal coil could produce nearly zero volts output when it discharges or it could produce and infinite voltage output when it discharges, it all depends on the nature of the load.

The hard evidence is the equation that describes the output voltage from a coil:  V = L di/dt.

"The voltage output from a coil is proportional to the product of the inductance of the coil and the rate of change of current flow though the coil with respect to time."

That equation tells you how a coil can generate a voltage spike.  This has absolutely nothing to do with radiant energy.

Bedini intentionally refuses to explain to all of his followers how a coil actually works because it is not in his financial interest.  He would prefer that you all remain ignorant and believe in the "superstition" about "radiant energy" and Bedini motors.

Some of the Bedini enthusiasts have to teach themselves or even go to a Beini conference and challenge Bedini to teach his followers how a coil actually works.

It's time to stop talking this "radiant energy" nonsense when it comes to Bedini motors, it's truly ridiculous.

MileHigh

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #343 on: June 29, 2014, 06:05:19 PM »
It rather depends on just how you define "radiant energy", doesn't it? Certainly all devices that produce coil ringing phenomena also produce "radiant energy" : RF noise, which definitely radiates, is definitely energy, and definitely can be picked up at a distance by suitable means. I have illustrated this fact many times with many different devices, even the MHOP "better than Bedini" pulse motor.  Even, you may recall, with Little Miss Mosfet's silly kludge.

The "radiant energy", which is, in my definition, high voltage high frequency noise of more or less spectral purity, is easy to produce and easy to distinguish from the "regular energy" which manifests as a DC offset and/or a low frequency AC component of the signal being talked about.

Give me some examples of "radiant energy" and each one will show, on careful analysis, that it is "HVRF" carrier and/or noise that is being demonstrated.

 ;)

(Yes... the primary is a true Tesla bifilar-wound solenoidal coil.)


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Captret - Capacitor and Electret
« Reply #344 on: June 29, 2014, 07:53:27 PM »
TK:

It's possible that you showed the origins of the "hook."  Almost all free energy experimenters marvel at the near-field radiation of a Tesla coil.  It is so cool to see a neon light illuminate in the strong AC electric field.  Many of them have absolutely no understanding of what is going on and so the catch-all phrase that is used is "radiant energy."  The fact that sometimes the neon only lights up when you touch something with it means that there can be "radiant energy" in physical things like tables and chairs and the battery itself!  OooOoOOooooooOOoooooo that "radiant energy" is so neat and so cool!

Then Bedini notes that in the very simple pulse motor that bears his name, neon lights can also be made to illuminate if you disconnect the charging battery.  OoooOoOoOOOoooooooo that must also be "radiant energy" too!

It seems like a reasonable conjecture: Bedini hijacked the term "radiant energy" to make gullible people think that a simple, basic pulse motor is something special.  He will NOT TELL YOU why and how the coil is making the neon light up.  It grosses me out.

MileHigh