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Author Topic: The Newman comedy company  (Read 4561 times)

Offline markdansie

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The Newman comedy company
« on: July 01, 2010, 01:58:00 AM »

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: The Newman comedy company
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2010, 10:17:18 AM »
http://pesn.com/2010/06/30/95001665_Joseph_Newman_June26-2010-demo/

Mark:

Does this mean you are not running out to find investors for this? (Big grin)  I think Lawrence Tseung might give this guy a run for his money.

Bill

Offline markdansie

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Re: The Newman comedy company
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 12:41:31 PM »
Hi Bill,
actually I told the investors they should invest in a mobile battery shop and follow the circus around. They will sell a lot of batteries.
have a goo one mate,
Mark

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Re: The Newman comedy company
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2010, 12:41:31 PM »
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Offline icanbeatbob

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Re: The Newman comedy company
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2010, 07:53:07 PM »
Mark, Bill,
Why do you pick on this genius instead of giving him money to save the world?

He is funny though. Always the same spiel. Always the same attitude.

Thanks for the link. It was good to see nothing has changed. I got a laugh out of it.

Regards,
Brad

Offline kmarinas86

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Quote from: markdansie link=topic=9382.msg247309#msg247309 date=1277942280
http://pesn.com/2010/06/30/95001665_Joseph_Newman_June26-2010-demo/

The torque load on the shaft is really too small to demonstrate the power of the device well.

It is like taking a V6 engine and attaching a shaft to it to spin a chicken breast.

There is something called mechanical impedance. Newman's machine has a lot of mechanical impedance. This means that adding additional torque on the shaft will not decrease the rotational rate of the shaft as much.

In Part 2 of a series of 5 videos, we see Newman turn on this machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1RVZPK0ZIw

I have many videos of my own (http://www.youtube.com/kmarinas86/). It is clear in my personal observations of my small motor device that the amount of work displayed by the device does not say much about the potential of it. The small fan device I made two years ago could easily reach 330 rpm. I noticed that as I added more wire and voltage to compensate, I could get it back to 330 rpm. With more copper, the fan at 330 RPM resisted my hand more than before. With the big fan motor, it reached the point where I would actually have slightly red cuts etched through the top skin layer (epidermis) of the tips of my fingers from the threaded bar shaft due to large mechanical impedance despite the fact that rpm was lower than before. There is more resistance to slowing down the rotation of the rotor than its moment of inertia (determined by the shape of the stack of 38 cubic inches of neodymium magnets) would tell you.

When the mechanical impedance is greater, you should be able to hear the difference in the clicks that the machine makes (i.e. the acceleration of the rotor is much jumpier and will reach the final rpm sooner rather than later). It would reach top speed in less time, but it would not necessarily rotate any faster because you still have to compensate for voltage. With more copper windings, more force is needed stop it entirely even though voltage was raised only to raise the running rpm to the original value. More copper windings will increase mechanical impedance, but you won't appreciate it without a proportionately sized torque load.

There are few demonstrations by Newman that defy this pattern. Most of them are demonstrations his Newman's small motor generator:

Older videos from 2008:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5399697456012877363 (He prepares to start motor hooked to a generator at 9:50, and prepares to measures amps and volts at 11:40 (17 watts) and after that, the motor speed is doubled and eventually tripled. This could mean that the power input increased by a factor of 4x then (9/4)x (which is 68 watts and 153 watts respectively). 153 watts input fails to explain how the meter picks up (which occurs at 7.5 horsepower according to the Grainger catalog for this generator).)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3747078809628665374 (This is the previous video. He does not show power input of the motor (only amps), but if you compare it to 10:40 in the second video above (10 volts and 1 amp) and have your speakers on, you will see that is it faster than that. In this setup he used 18 nine-volt batteries. Obviously 9V is the maximum voltage. It is going about 1/4th as fast the speed where the meter picks up beyond 7.5 horsepower. 5595 watts / 4^2 = 350 watts, which is more than 98 volts * 3.5 amps. If the internal resistance of each battery is 2 ohms, then that is already a loss of 7 volts per 9V battery.  If you had 3.5 amps, the voltage of all eighteen 9V's combined under load would be 22 volts.)

Playlist of select examples of the small Newman fan motor:
http://www.youtube.com/kmarinas86#g/c/7EFA67FFA7897FE5

When I attached the bigger fan, it turned out to not be as much torque and rpm as I had expected as the rpm only reached around 75 rpm:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10W7qIxoNUo

However, when I added a fourth coil on the other side, efficiency shot up by and large. For the same power, I had it going at 130 rpm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KtqdUOzh2g

I now know without any doubts that the proximity of the wire is the key player in getting this machine to work in a convincing way. Using stronger neo magnets can allow you to put more power into the same size device, but your tradeoff is the voltage you will need to get it working. So with a smaller torque load, using stronger magnets is a just "a wash" or worse. With more than two coils, the device using the small fan actually decreased efficiency, which was the opposite result of having a heavier fan attached which gained efficiency right up to the point when I added the 6th coil.  The current device can run from the charge capacity of batteries of 1800 milliamp hours for over 60 hours before needing recharge. So my device uses about 0.03 amps. Voltage measured in my big fan demonstrations is usually less than 300 volts:

http://www.youtube.com/kmarinas86#g/c/2506654B08626453

I am departing from the old design of mine and I plan to use a new geometry I had just come up with. The objective is higher torque density than before.

I generated a graphic design image using Microsoft Word Autoshapes. You can download the file in the attachment link below or you can view the *.jpg image copy at my Xanga site (http://kmarinas86.xanga.com/photos/914f9269378122/). By going to Tools>Options...>General you can change which length units are used for the ruler. I used millimeters. Lego dimensions were taken from http://www.robertcailliau.eu/Lego/Dimensions/zMeasurements-en.xhtml.

Quote from: Kmarinas86 (youtube description of latest plan)
I no longer have my old room. I will have new furniture, paint, carpet, and a computer stand. I am not quite sure where I am going to place the experiments.

Upcoming designs will not use any ribbon cables.

A 11LB spool will be used and have magnet wire about 1 mile in length which will be wound by hand around a square non-magnetic frame support made out of Lego set pieces.

A zig-zag pattern around four alternating corners of a Lego frame will effectively create four semi-coils (CW-CCW-CW-CCW) with just one wire winding. In this way, the closest contact between the wire coil and the magnetic rotor will centered between the non-magnetic support frame beams.

The rotor will have a four pole design which will fire at least twice every revolution in the same polarity. If polarity reversals are added into the design, then there will be four reversals per revolution. With twice as many rotor poles and twice as many firing sequences per revolution, as much as four times the torque can be expected, and if polarity reversals are incorporated, then the torque can be as much as eight times as much as the previous design.

Self-inductance of the wire will exceed that in the previous design as well as the designed proximity of the wire to the rotor poles. To take advantage of this, neodymium magnets will be used at the very ends of the poles only. Ferrite magnets will be used in the majority of the rotor to reduce costs. The motor will be about 8"x8"x9" (l-w-h). This is approximately 2/3rds the scale of the previous design.

The primary justification for this new development is the deteriorating state of the old motor which results from its jerry-rigged construction, and the RPM of the old motor was less than was predicted due to the massive amount of insulation used. The new design therefore incorporates non-magnetic hard plastic (Legos) for support and increases the proximity of the average wire element by four times or more by using tightly-bound magnet wire.

Due to the new design's absence of any solenoid design, the wire field strength in the center is reduced compared to the previous design as emphasis is shifted towards putting more of the wire field stregth (percentage-wise) at the very ends of the rotor poles not only for torque, but also for reducing parasitic back-emf by increasing average proximity of the rotor magnetization to the wire.

Despite using only one coil, the Lorentz force equation gives me confidence that the azimuthally-oriented zig-zag configuration will be effectively equivalent to four semi-coils (CW-CCW-CW-CCW). As a result, more dischargable magnetic field can be built up parallel to the shaft which will not contribute as much to the rpm-limiting back-emf, yet it may itself add to the Newman effect.

The wind resistance of the motor will be reduced greatly as air will be better able to flow straight through motor's air gap.

I will not fully commit to this project until I have secured a job or paid internship related to my future business career. It may take as late as a year before I can get that.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2010, 03:22:47 AM by kmarinas86 »

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Offline kmarinas86

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There are few demonstrations by Newman that defy this pattern. Most of them are demonstrations his Newman's small motor generator:

Older videos from 2008:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5399697456012877363 (He prepares to start motor hooked to a generator at 9:50, and prepares to measures amps and volts at 11:40 (17 watts) and after that, the motor speed is doubled and eventually tripled. This could mean that the power input increased by a factor of 4x then (9/4)x (which is 68 watts and 153 watts respectively). 153 watts input fails to explain how the meter picks up (which occurs at 7.5 horsepower according to the Grainger catalog for this generator).)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3747078809628665374 (This is the previous video. He does not show power input of the motor (only amps), but if you compare it to 10:40 in the second video above (10 volts and 1 amp) and have your speakers on, you will see that is it faster than that. In this setup he used 18 nine-volt batteries. Obviously 9V is the maximum voltage. It is going about 1/4th as fast the speed where the meter picks up beyond 7.5 horsepower. 5595 watts / 4^2 = 350 watts, which is more than 98 volts * 3.5 amps. If the internal resistance of each battery is 2 ohms, then that is already a loss of 7 volts per 9V battery.  If you had 3.5 amps, the voltage of all eighteen 9V's combined under load would be 22 volts.)

Something is wrong about the last few lines apparently, but proper calculation may speak even more in favor that the device actually operates as claimed.

18 batteries * 9 volts/battery = 162 volts

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3747078809628665374

Power used to drive the motor = (162 Volts - Battery Resistance*(Current))^2 / Coil Resistance

Newman say his coil weighs 200 pounds. The resistance of the coil will depend on the wire gauge chosen.

0 AWG:   0.1 ohms
1 AWG:   0.1 ohms
2 AWG:   0.2 ohms
3 AWG:   0.2 ohms
4 AWG:   0.4 ohms
5 AWG:   0.6 ohms
6 AWG:   1.0 ohms
7 AWG:   1.6 ohms
8 AWG:   2.5 ohms
9 AWG:   4.0 ohms
10 AWG:   6.4 ohms
11 AWG:   10 ohms
12 AWG:   16 ohms
13 AWG:   26 ohms
14 AWG:   41 ohms
15 AWG:   65 ohms
16 AWG:   103 ohms
17 AWG:   163 ohms
18 AWG:   260 ohms
19 AWG:   413 ohms
20 AWG:   657 ohms
21 AWG:   1044 ohms
22 AWG:   1660 ohms
23 AWG:   2640 ohms
24 AWG:   4197 ohms
25 AWG:   6674 ohms
26 AWG:   10612 ohms
27 AWG:   16874 ohms
28 AWG:   26830 ohms
29 AWG:   42662 ohms
30 AWG:   67836 ohms
31 AWG:   107864 ohms
32 AWG:   171510 ohms
33 AWG:   272720 ohms
34 AWG:   433620 ohms
35 AWG:   689500 ohms
36 AWG:   1096340 ohms
37 AWG:   1743240 ohms
38 AWG:   2771800 ohms
39 AWG:   4407400 ohms
40 AWG:   7008000 ohms

If the wire gauge is greater than 12 AWG, we can safely ignore the batteries' internal resistance as it will be insignficant in comparison to the coil resistance.

If the output of the motor is 350 watts, and if the input is 162V * current, then:

Efficiency = [350 watts] divided by [(162 Volts)^2 / Coil Resistance]

AWG   
14 AWG:   54.17%   4.0 amps
15 AWG:   86.15%   2.5 amps
16 AWG:   136.99%   1.6 amps

Wires lower than 14 AWG would draw more amps while wires above 15 AWG would require efficiency greater than 100%.

If it turns out that current is less than "Volts / Coil Resistance" (possible due to the massive coil inductance), then the efficiency values in the table just above further OVERestimate the actual current and further UNDERestimate the actual efficiency. In that case, to maintain a status of less than 100% efficiency, lower gauges wires would be necessary, or you would need to connect coils in parallel.

Nevertheless, the current must be above 2.16 amps if the efficiency is less than 100%. In one minute, 2.16 amps translates into 36 mAh (36=2160/60). If it were drawing that much power, then the 9Vs are gone in two minutes. The video at:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3747078809628665374

...is cut at several places. However, more than once is the motor shown running longer than 2 minutes. If the motor runs any longer than that, then it is already showing overunity.

Where the 350 watts output estimate came from:
Quote from: kmarinas86
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3747078809628665374 (This is the previous video. He does not show power input of the motor (only amps), but if you compare it to 10:40 in the second video above (10 volts and 1 amp) and have your speakers on, you will see that is it faster than that. In this setup he used 18 nine-volt batteries. Obviously 9V is the maximum voltage. It is going about 1/4th as fast the speed where the meter picks up beyond 7.5 horsepower. 5595 watts / 4^2 = 350 watts.

Obviously, if the batteries are already down 10%, such decline means the denominator of the efficiency calculation is even smaller than assumed above, which causes the answer to rise.

The result of the other video is clear:
Quote from: kmarinas86
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5399697456012877363 (He prepares to start motor hooked to a generator at 9:50, and prepares to measures amps and volts at 11:40 (17 watts) and after that, the motor speed is doubled and eventually tripled. This could mean that the power input increased by a factor of 4x then (9/4)x (which is 68 watts and 153 watts respectively). 153 watts input fails to explain how the meter picks up (which occurs at 7.5 horsepower according to the Grainger catalog for this generator).)

Even if you took 17 watts and multiplied by 3*3*3, you would get 459 watts, which cannot account for even one horsepower. You could also multiply it by 3 a fourth time and still not get 7.5 horsepower! Multiplying 17 by 4*4*4*4 doesn't give you the answer either! Regardless, required power should increase with the square of the speed, or perhaps even the cube of the speed (if the generator has a lot of friction), but NEVER to the fourth power of the speed.

 

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