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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: bimbothova on October 14, 2010, 05:40:13 AM

Title: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: bimbothova on October 14, 2010, 05:40:13 AM
All the info you need to build a successful overunity device or in other words, an electricity amplification device, is given on this Peswiki page ...

Kudos to Youtube member 'MindFreer' who has uploaded a complete guide book video on this technology ...

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Hatem_Magnetic_Cogging_Device
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Ted Ewert on October 14, 2010, 05:11:24 PM
I'm already planning on building one to see how it works. I want to do some accurate testing to determine what kind of COP they have.
As soon as the parts arrive I'll start construction.

Ted
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: kampen on October 14, 2010, 08:25:32 PM
On Oct. 4, 2010, an associate said that it is likely that this is not actually an overunity system, and that it is a function of measurement errors.

"Watt meters are not accurate outside of their 60 Hz specs; and they say nothing about reactive power or phase difference."

A more accurate measurement would need to be conducted to convincingly show that this system is somehow harnessing energy from the environment to thereby produce more energy than it takes to run it.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: bimbothova on October 15, 2010, 06:48:19 AM
Please note that 'a single rotor' connected to the prime mover at 3 O'Clock position may not exhibit over-unity electricity production but if you install rotors at 12 O'Clock + 3 O'Clock + 6 O'Clock + 9 O'Clock positions (as shown in the diagram by Bobby Thomas) and sum up the electricity generated by all rotors together - that is definitely going to show OVERUNITY electricity production and that too it will be at least 200% of the input power.

The beauty of this design is that ... you can start a chain reaction by adding more rotors adjacent to the rotors installed next to the PRIME MOVER ... I foresee huge electricity generation FARMS based on this technology.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: e2matrix on October 15, 2010, 07:20:22 AM
He's also got a new Solid State device uploaded today that appears to create excess power.  Very interesting how simple this one is.  I'm not sure who MindFreer is but I know it certainly sounds like someone many of us know.  Regardless of who it is I think either of these may be worth trying out and if it's who I think then that is all the more reason to believe they will create OU. 
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on October 15, 2010, 07:34:01 AM
He's also got a new Solid State device uploaded today that appears to create excess power.  Very interesting how simple this one is.  I'm not sure who MindFreer is but I know it certainly sounds like someone many of us know.  Regardless of who it is I think either of these may be worth trying out and if it's who I think then that is all the more reason to believe they will create OU.

 
Yannick Van Doorne is a very dubiousness guy , look at this :
 
 

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7602.msg185409#msg185409 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7602.msg185409#msg185409)
 
 
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7602.msg185536#msg185536 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7602.msg185536#msg185536)
 
 
 
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8465.msg214933#msg214933 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8465.msg214933#msg214933)
 
 
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8465.msg214945#msg214945 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8465.msg214945#msg214945)
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on October 15, 2010, 07:49:48 AM
All the info you need to build a successful overunity device or in other words, an electricity amplification device, is given on this Peswiki page ...

Kudos to Youtube member 'MindFreer' who has uploaded a complete guide book video on this technology ...

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Hatem_Magnetic_Cogging_Device (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Hatem_Magnetic_Cogging_Device)

 
I can not peak of  mindfreer
 
but is youtube 'profile is
 
Quote

    I am a Scientologist and am applying what I've learned in Scientology to the subject of Free Energy. My goal is to present a number of different forms of free energy in an easy to understand format that allows the viewer to replicate if desired or at the very least think about the subject in a different way. If you click on the link to my website you will discover a book I highly recommend to help you in your work, no matter what your occupation is.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: gyulasun on October 16, 2010, 12:36:44 AM
He's also got a new Solid State device uploaded today that appears to create excess power.  Very interesting how simple this one is.  I'm not sure who MindFreer is but I know it certainly sounds like someone many of us know.  Regardless of who it is I think either of these may be worth trying out and if it's who I think then that is all the more reason to believe they will create OU.

Hi e2matrix,

Do not fall victim of scams.  Though it is possible Mindfreer himself believes current transformers give free energy if they are connected in series with a load that is operated from the mains, the person behind ncbookz.com who sold him the plans (see video at 9:50) certainly has been selling his "idea" for a few years now.

This has been the topics on this forum already, see these links:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1933.msg38574.html#msg38574

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5902.msg134091#msg134091

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9482.0 

So it cannot be free energy because it uses the current your normal load (which seems to be tapped) already consumes and you house Watthour meter registers already. The illusion is you do not pay for that current but it is taken from the mains so you pay for it!
Understand?

Gyula
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: e2matrix on October 17, 2010, 03:17:57 AM
Thanks Gyula,  Very thankful for your input as I know you understand this so much better than I do. 
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: bolt on October 17, 2010, 04:09:28 AM
I am really surprised it took so long for anyone to pick up on this idea here an try it as i looked into to this over a year ago. Already well known in the art magnetic coupling is VERY efficient like 99% without doing anything fancy. The theoretical gain from 3 ring pairing neo magnet drive is 161.8% as magnetic field becomes 3 phases of magnetic flux each shifted by the offset. No accident this is Fibonacci sequence 1.618

According to MindFreer he claims he now has many people who achieved the same results from replications.

quote"After he bought this document, he began to work on a prototype with the plans. I advised him how to make his prototype better too, and with all this he succeeded to make his prototype a working model that doubles the energy in to out.
He is not alone, there are also other people that contacted me that succeeded to make one even better then him but that stays anonymous for the moment. Some are even running their house with like they tell me."


Read Hatem patent and others on magnetic duality pairing. So if you try this you MUST use a drum with 3 staggered neo levels as he has done and NOT one layer to be CHEAP. This is why for about 100 watts i/p the o/p is around 160 watts

Regarding the watt meters the only thing that can upset the readings is the o/p from the inverter is 50Hz 240v and qausi sine. Its not off frequency so well within the spec for the watt meters but the qausi sine creates a few harmonics due to the sharp edges and "may" cause the meters to twitch slightly on the power readings.  The i/p power watt meter is direct from the wall so nothing funny going on here. Its not a looped system but it runs with gain. Looping has many problems and not a simple case of connecting the o/p back to the i/p.

If i were to do this i run 5HP 3 phase motor as prime mover RV to drive 5HP 3 phase motor as generator. In theory at least 1000 watt drive should provide 1618 watts o/p or 618 watts OU using standard off the shelf stuff and o/p 120/240/480 as required. To convert 3 phase to single phase use C2C to match 100% 3 phase loading to single phase.

 No need to loop or even convince the trolls or  OU bashers just make quite use of the 618 OU watts for yourself is enough to make major power savings for your house. The entire shebang should cost under 1000 bucks. Going this route avoids expensive cap batteries and inverters and bucks for watts nothing else can touch it.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: kampen on October 18, 2010, 02:11:07 PM
Dear Mr. Bolt,

after reading your message I became very interested in this device.
Unfortunately I am NOT an expert in electronics but would like to build a unit with a 3 phase primary motor as you suggested.
No need for "looping" for me just would like to use the extra power.

Can You give more details (step by step) how to do?
Selecting the best motor/generator, wiring, type of magnets to use.
At my place in Europe we have 3 phase asynchronous motors with 3000 rpm and 1500 rpm.
What's the expected LIFETIME of these high-speed rotating magnets?

Any help is welcome.

Thanks in advance,
kampen
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on October 18, 2010, 04:24:15 PM
I am really surprised it took so long for anyone to pick up on this idea here an try it as i looked into to this over a year ago. Already well known in the art magnetic coupling is VERY efficient like 99% without doing anything fancy. The theoretical gain from 3 ring pairing neo magnet drive is 161.8% as magnetic field becomes 3 phases of magnetic flux each shifted by the offset. No accident this is Fibonacci sequence 1.618

According to MindFreer he claims he now has many people who achieved the same results from replications.

quote"After he bought this document, he began to work on a prototype with the plans. I advised him how to make his prototype better too, and with all this he succeeded to make his prototype a working model that doubles the energy in to out.
He is not alone, there are also other people that contacted me that succeeded to make one even better then him but that stays anonymous for the moment. Some are even running their house with like they tell me."


Read Hatem patent and others on magnetic duality pairing. So if you try this you MUST use a drum with 3 staggered neo levels as he has done and NOT one layer to be CHEAP. This is why for about 100 watts i/p the o/p is around 160 watts

Regarding the watt meters the only thing that can upset the readings is the o/p from the inverter is 50Hz 240v and qausi sine. Its not off frequency so well within the spec for the watt meters but the qausi sine creates a few harmonics due to the sharp edges and "may" cause the meters to twitch slightly on the power readings.  The i/p power watt meter is direct from the wall so nothing funny going on here. Its not a looped system but it runs with gain. Looping has many problems and not a simple case of connecting the o/p back to the i/p.

If i were to do this i run 5HP 3 phase motor as prime mover RV to drive 5HP 3 phase motor as generator. In theory at least 1000 watt drive should provide 1618 watts o/p or 618 watts OU using standard off the shelf stuff and o/p 120/240/480 as required. To convert 3 phase to single phase use C2C to match 100% 3 phase loading to single phase.

 No need to loop or even convince the trolls or  OU bashers just make quite use of the 618 OU watts for yourself is enough to make major power savings for your house. The entire shebang should cost under 1000 bucks. Going this route avoids expensive cap batteries and inverters and bucks for watts nothing else can touch it.
*
 
 
yes it is so easy ... why I have never seen an OU device ....
 
have you replicated this divice ?
 
or
 
are you selling the plan ?
 
it is very easy to speak of OU or selling plan to get OU but
not so easy to get a device with real OU
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Airstriker on October 19, 2010, 01:42:31 PM
I am really surprised it took so long for anyone to pick up on this idea here an try it as i looked into to this over a year ago. Already well known in the art magnetic coupling is VERY efficient like 99% without doing anything fancy. The theoretical gain from 3 ring pairing neo magnet drive is 161.8% as magnetic field becomes 3 phases of magnetic flux each shifted by the offset. No accident this is Fibonacci sequence 1.618

According to MindFreer he claims he now has many people who achieved the same results from replications.

quote"After he bought this document, he began to work on a prototype with the plans. I advised him how to make his prototype better too, and with all this he succeeded to make his prototype a working model that doubles the energy in to out.
He is not alone, there are also other people that contacted me that succeeded to make one even better then him but that stays anonymous for the moment. Some are even running their house with like they tell me."


Read Hatem patent and others on magnetic duality pairing. So if you try this you MUST use a drum with 3 staggered neo levels as he has done and NOT one layer to be CHEAP. This is why for about 100 watts i/p the o/p is around 160 watts

Regarding the watt meters the only thing that can upset the readings is the o/p from the inverter is 50Hz 240v and qausi sine. Its not off frequency so well within the spec for the watt meters but the qausi sine creates a few harmonics due to the sharp edges and "may" cause the meters to twitch slightly on the power readings.  The i/p power watt meter is direct from the wall so nothing funny going on here. Its not a looped system but it runs with gain. Looping has many problems and not a simple case of connecting the o/p back to the i/p.

If i were to do this i run 5HP 3 phase motor as prime mover RV to drive 5HP 3 phase motor as generator. In theory at least 1000 watt drive should provide 1618 watts o/p or 618 watts OU using standard off the shelf stuff and o/p 120/240/480 as required. To convert 3 phase to single phase use C2C to match 100% 3 phase loading to single phase.

 No need to loop or even convince the trolls or  OU bashers just make quite use of the 618 OU watts for yourself is enough to make major power savings for your house. The entire shebang should cost under 1000 bucks. Going this route avoids expensive cap batteries and inverters and bucks for watts nothing else can touch it.
Hi broli. I know you usually don't speak bullshit, but where a hell does the gain here come from ? All I can see is a magnetic gear. Doesn't really matter if this setup has 2 or 10 motors. Can you explain it a bit better ? Some pictures maybe ? Are the magnets in attraction or repulsion mode ? On PESwiki there is also a big mistake, as Magluvin didn't find any overunity effect in this setup (as it's stated there) - you can find Magluvin's comment right there.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: void109 on October 19, 2010, 04:39:51 PM
Quote from: Airstriker
Hi broli

Minor detail, but I believe you've confused bolt with broli. :)
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: altair on October 21, 2010, 02:44:03 AM
There is one simple way to test the efficiency of this magnetic gear, without using motors or generators.
If we assume that the principle is based on the supposition that two magnetic wheels, as depicted, would somehow multiply the torque of the input wheel by some amount, while driving the output wheel, why then couldn't we just take a pair of those wheels, without any motor or generator attached, and just swing the first wheel by hand. (Start the rotation by hand).
If the assemmbly is so efficient, the pair will just self-accelerate, proving the concept.

Altair
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Low-Q on October 21, 2010, 09:59:11 PM
All the info you need to build a successful overunity device or in other words, an electricity amplification device, is given on this Peswiki page ...

Kudos to Youtube member 'MindFreer' who has uploaded a complete guide book video on this technology ...

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_Hatem_Magnetic_Cogging_Device
Many hobbyists out there often have lack of knowledge, and do many times believe they add 2 x 2 and gets a product greater than 4. Yes, it is possible to make readings of voltage and ampéres which in the first plase looks like it makes more energy out than in. But in such cases there is a given phase shift which is resulting that voltage and ampéres are not syncronized in time.
An example:
A person makes this device, and measures 10V and 10A input. Then he loads the output and read 20V and 20A. Any person with a common sense "understands" there is 400W out - or are they wrong? What they overlook is the phase. Say the real input are both volt and ampére in phase; 10 x 10 = 100W. The real output are in best case (20V x Cos65) x (20A x Sin35) = 97W - take this as an example. Now you can try to loop the device and try to feed 97 Watts into an input which require 100 Watts to run. This is the very reason this particular device cannot bee looped, and ran by itself. The explanation are all there. There are no energy from space which is harnessed by a magnetic coupling. It is all about the relationship between the VA-readings and its phase.

Vidar
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: exnihiloest on October 22, 2010, 12:36:16 PM
...
The beauty of this design is that ... you can start a chain reaction by adding more rotors adjacent to the rotors installed next to the PRIME MOVER ... I foresee huge electricity generation FARMS based on this technology.

Beautiful, like most of the products of delusion.
 :)

Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: gauschor on October 22, 2010, 01:53:52 PM
Hmm looks interesting, anyone tried the Bobby Thomas "optimized" version? Though I'm afraid this version could produce asynchronity because the magnets on the rotor don't force a "path" (contrary to Hatem's device with 3 rows of magnets which force a "path") and probably if the main rotor speed is too fast one pole could be missed.

Also will it still work as well if dynamos are attached... which need additional effort. Hmm speculating only... and then we'd need a load that needs more power than the source to really prove it :s
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: bobby_tc6 on August 04, 2012, 08:41:24 PM
Mindfreer's ebook ...

http://www.water4gas.com/Free-Electricity-Magnetic-Cogging-Device-You-Can-Make-For-Fun-and-Profit.html (http://www.water4gas.com/Free-Electricity-Magnetic-Cogging-Device-You-Can-Make-For-Fun-and-Profit.html)
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on August 05, 2012, 08:27:02 AM
Mindfreer's ebook ...


are you Mindfreer ?
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: hoptoad on August 05, 2012, 08:33:55 AM
Beautiful, like most of the products of delusion.
 :)

Thanks for the great belly laugh. Delightfully succinct !  ;D

Cheers
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: hoptoad on August 05, 2012, 08:47:34 AM
Many hobbyists out there often have lack of knowledge, and do many times believe they add 2 x 2 and gets a product greater than 4. Yes, it is possible to make readings of voltage and ampéres which in the first plase looks like it makes more energy out than in. But in such cases there is a given phase shift which is resulting that voltage and ampéres are not syncronized in time.
An example:
A person makes this device, and measures 10V and 10A input. Then he loads the output and read 20V and 20A. Any person with a common sense "understands" there is 400W out - or are they wrong? What they overlook is the phase. Say the real input are both volt and ampére in phase; 10 x 10 = 100W. The real output are in best case (20V x Cos65) x (20A x Sin35) = 97W - take this as an example. Now you can try to loop the device and try to feed 97 Watts into an input which require 100 Watts to run. This is the very reason this particular device cannot bee looped, and ran by itself. The explanation are all there. There are no energy from space which is harnessed by a magnetic coupling. It is all about the relationship between the VA-readings and its phase.

Vidar

Well explained Vidar. Unfortunately, the mistake of omitting the phase relationship between current and voltage from the power calculation is one that seems to be 'perpetually' repeated on this site and other forums. What a pity we can't extract free energy from perpetual misunderstanding.

Cheers
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: TinselKoala on August 05, 2012, 03:49:42 PM
It's too bad that everybody thinks they can't afford an oscilloscope since good digital ones are so expensive.

While there are perfectly fine and usable analog scopes on the used market in the 100 dollar price range.

A voltage trace and a current trace (voltage across a known small resistance in series with the circuit under test) can be displayed simultaneously on even the most basic two-channel oscilloscope. The instantaneous multiplication, point-by-point, of these two trace values will give an instantaneous power curve, and the average value of this latter curve can be found easily. And this process completely and automatically accounts for any and all phase shifts between the two signals and yields an accurate result.

The only advantage of a DSO over an analog one is that the DSO is a lot more convenient and easy to use. You can spend 10 thousand dollars on a DSO to make this measurement, to four or five digits of precision, and have your answer in moments. You can spend 100 dollars, take a photo of the screen with your cellphone and spend some time analyzing and multiplying by hand to make this measurement, to three digits of precision in a couple of hours.

We are not talking high bandwidth or complex signals here, just power measurements in a phase-shifted situation.

The oscilloscope is the king of test equipment and, along with a basic signal generator, is at the heart of any home electronics setup. Spend a hundred or two on a 20 MHz scope, learn to use it properly..... and you will never regret it.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: bobby_tc6 on August 05, 2012, 10:34:54 PM
All information that I have about Hatem's Magnetic Cogging Generator ...
 
 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/69km97qu5jdr6u1/JrDstQcQOk (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/69km97qu5jdr6u1/JrDstQcQOk)
 
@Tagor .. I am not Mindfreer ... I wish he could join this forum and provide us more information on this generator design.

Two of the videos uploaded by me were created by Mindfreer which were available on youtube until few months back they were removed by google siting copyright issues ... I failed to download Mindfreer's later uploads which had more information on the Hatem design ... the videos were deleted by google within a week's time of uploading .. strange .. looks like Mindfreer was on to something and there was someone who didn't like him discussing it so openly.

George Mitchell is the only other person (one of the videos uploaded by me wherein there are three rotors) who has succeeded in replicating this design but he would not divulge the specs of his setup.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on August 06, 2012, 08:07:30 AM
All information that I have about Hatem's Magnetic Cogging Generator ...
 
 https://www.dropbox.com/sh/69km97qu5jdr6u1/JrDstQcQOk (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/69km97qu5jdr6u1/JrDstQcQOk)
 
@Tagor .. I am not Mindfreer ... I wish he could join this forum and provide us more information on this generator design.

Two of the videos uploaded by me were created by Mindfreer which were available on youtube until few months back they were removed by google siting copyright issues ... I failed to download Mindfreer's later uploads which had more information on the Hatem design ... the videos were deleted by google within a week's time of uploading .. strange .. looks like Mindfreer was on to something and there was someone who didn't like him discussing it so openly.

George Mitchell is the only other person (one of the videos uploaded by me wherein there are three rotors) who has succeeded in replicating this design but he would not divulge the specs of his setup.

I think that Mindfreer is a con man
 
I know Hatem there is nothing working in his house , I spoke a lot on this in this forum
but nothing working ...
 
 
 
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: bobby_tc6 on August 06, 2012, 08:41:20 AM
There is lot of very useful information given in the PDF file that I have uploaded which I guess is put together by Yannick V. D.

And IMHO stamping a design as non-working or SCAM or FRAUD without ever testing it, is not right.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on August 06, 2012, 09:15:08 AM
There is lot of very useful information given in the PDF file that I have uploaded which I guess is put together by Yannick V. D.

And IMHO stamping a design as non-working or SCAM or FRAUD without ever testing it, is not right.

yannick another con man , he stops selling plan when I spoke of this on a lot of forum
 
Hatem is fool but he is not selling his craps
 
 
EDIT :
 
there is a lot of testing of the hatem device on french forum !!!
look what I posted on this !!! it is not new !!! 2 or 3 years ago ...
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: avalon on August 06, 2012, 05:08:36 PM
This is the very reason this particular device cannot bee looped, and ran by itself. The explanation are all there. There are no energy from space which is harnessed by a magnetic coupling. It is all about the relationship between the VA-readings and its phase.

Vidar
I agree in principle though I cannot be categorical that there is no excess energy in magnetic coupling. I simply don't have enough information to say one way or the other. But I totally agree on the misreading of the output - a common mistake.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 07, 2012, 08:22:38 PM
In the midst of ideas setting off the scam alert warning, we may miss the real ones.
 
 
Magnetic coupling employed in a far more sophisticated way by these guys:
 
http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/ (http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/)
 
 
What's your opinion?
 
Gwandau
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 08, 2012, 12:45:29 AM
Gwandau:

From their web site:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Test Set-up: Interactive Magnetic Oscillations The current design of the set-up is based on a magnetic interaction where one body interacts with a second and third body.
 
The first body (4) on shaft 1 is a magnetic drive driven by motor (3).
The second body (5) on shaft 2 is a Magnetic Torque and Speed Enhancement Device.
The third body (6) is a Magnetic Oscillation Device that amplifies the interaction between the first body (4) and second body (5).
There are two rotational torque sensors on two shafts (Futek Advanced Sensor Technology Inc.).
Each sensor (1) (2) is mated to an evaluation instrument (Kistler Como Torque 4700).
Each instrument is connected with RS 232 to an individual Computer.
The Data Acquisition System and software to analyze and record the Sensors is provided by DATAQ Instruments, Inc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I believe that many of these companies just exist to be "in development" for years and years - and that is their business.  That is their "product."
Do you follow me?  They are in the business of the business of tapping into the vast pool of venture capital investment money out there.
These two lines:
The second body (5) on shaft 2 is a Magnetic Torque and Speed Enhancement Device.
The third body (6) is a Magnetic Oscillation Device that amplifies the interaction between the first body (4) and second body (5).


Now, you can take a strain gauge and rotate two magnetized disks that are set up to interact and measure the torque for every single degree of rotation.  You will end up with net zero energy after you rotate 360 degrees.  (Approximately zero because of the imperfect granularity in your measurements.) This comes from James Faraday and James Maxwell all the way on down.  You analyze the setup with calculus.  Instead of making a measurement for each degree, you use calculus to reduce the step size to the limit towards zero degrees and compute the line integral that an imaginary point follows as it rotates through the 360 degree circle.  The resultant of the line integral is zero and the calculus is perfectly modelling the physical system.


If you accept what I state to be true and verifiable on the bench and verifiable with calculus, then you will conclude that the two statements above are lies.  Twice they say that there are two mechanical amplifiers that put energy into the system from nothingness.


So in my opinion, Terrawatt is just a poor man's version of Steorn.  Look at the example of Jame Kwok and his "Hidro energy towers."  Someone once posted that they contacted James Kwok about financing a real installation and James refused with the poor excuse that he was not set up to do business in the customer's part of the world.  I think it was in the NW United States.  So James Kwock is also in the business of the business of tapping into the vast pool of venture capital available in the world.
Sterling's article was from 2010, it's now 2012.  I can't explain why when you look at the "About Us" page you see pictures and mini bios of about a dozen of what appear to be perfectly respectable people.  None the less, this appears to be a junk company making the dead-beaten-horse claim about "energy from magnets."
These things can be very offensive if you forget about the lure of over unity and just look at this at face value.  There are people who work in professions related to what this company does and they are flabbergasted to see other people apparently masquerading around and making a mockery of science all for the almighty dollar.
Now that was a good rant!

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 08, 2012, 12:53:51 AM
A little add-on comment.

So if they are in he business of the business of tapping into the vast pool of venture capital investment money out there - then what is their product?

Their product is "fantasy."  Investors buy into companies like these for the fantasy of getting rich and/or the fantasy of helping to develop a free energy system.   So their product is mental energy induced into the minds and hearts of their investors.  The "investors" are actually the customers for the product - the mental fantasy.  And they pay for it dearly.

It's very similar of course to buying a lottery ticket when the jackpot surpasses 100 million.  You buy not expecting to win, what you are really buying is the idle daydreaming that you can indulge yourself in about being fabulously rich for a week before the draw takes place.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 08, 2012, 01:43:06 AM
MileHigh,
 
you are probably correct in you guess, even if you are clearly underestimating their description of what is happening.
 
They say the secondary axis, given rotational torque from the motor axis through the magnetic bearings , is creating an unexplained and anomalous magnetic field oscillation around a second set of very big magnets placed in a special configuration situated at the back part of the axis of the secondary wheel.
           
You seem to think they are harnessing the energy through the two magnetic bearing wheels at the front of the photo, which is not their claim.
 
You see they are talking about a secondary effect called forth by magnetic oscillations only if the secondary axis is driven indirectly by another axis through magnetic bearings. So you have obviously underestimated the complexity of their claim.
 
You get the idea? It is not the two magnetic bearing wheels at the front of the picture that creates the field imbalance that they are tapping when nature tries to reestablish balance, it is the rear set of big magnets that allows for their claimed effect to happen. It's as I said just that the secondary axis has to be rotated indirectly through magnetic bearings for this to happen. If they try to drive the second wheel directly with a motor, the effect does not appear. And If I recall correctly, their claimed COP is quite small.

But you might still be correct in your assumption, I won't argue on that. Especially since they never seemed to have been able to realize the grand plans presented 2010. Additionally their hompage is missing.

But in spite of all the scammers out there using magnetism to fool people, I would advise you to be less self confident regarding the possibilities with magnetism, since this is a phenomenon we actually know very little about.

Gwandau
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 08, 2012, 02:22:50 AM
Gwandau:

My follow-up comment that I didn't want to mention before because it's sometimes inflammatory is this:  Once you do the analysis for a magnetic interaction like I described, then you can generalize it to virtually any magnetic interaction.  A lot of people don't want to believe this.

So hence you make the argument that "this is a special magnetic interaction" but the problem is that there is no such thing as a special magnetic interaction.  It's all related back to the analysis and the symmetry and harmony inherent in Nature.  There simply is no workaround.  That may sound closed minded to you, but what you may not realize is that your view sounds closed minded to someone like me.  Nature is showing you its balance and harmony everywhere you look, and you unlock the understanding with the application of common sense and mathematics and confirm it with empirical observation.

This thing should be a no-brainer self runner with the addition of a few belts and pulleys!

Quoting you:

<<<<They say the secondary axis, given rotational torque from the motor axis through the magnetic bearings , is creating an unexplained and anomalous magnetic field oscillation around a second set of very big magnets placed in a special configuration situated at the back part of the axis of the secondary wheel.>>>>

That's simply you indicating a willingness to buy into what they are pitching to you.  It's not real and the experiments would prove to you it's not real.  There is no "special configuration" because we are 100% sure that we can generalize the fact that the line integral will clearly indicate a zero net gain in energy when you go through the entire loop and end back where you started.

You can accept this idea that states "the line integral through any closed loop path in 3D space filled with a magnetic field will give you a net zero gain in energy," or not.

I looked at the PESN article from 2010 and someone posted that Sterling first interviewed them in 2006.   So we are a full six years later and I have to assume that the "miracle device" has never been seen.

Ultimately you believe what you want to believe and many people prefer to have that "big lottery ticket buzz" all the time when it comes to free energy.  I am more pragmatic, I will believe it when I see it and I measure it.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: avalon on August 08, 2012, 07:14:23 AM
Guys,
I think you are both right. MileHigh is right when saying that they have nothing but want some long-term investments for 'final research' and Gwandau is right when saying that their maybe a bit more to that.
I am, actually, convinced that the magnetic interaction (of some sort) will be the answer to (a version of) OU. Will it be them? Probably not but that does not remove the fact that the magnetic interaction is real.
A have seen a lot of companies like that. All of them are looking for investments for the 'final research' which, undoubtedly, will take forever. Still, OU is real and is waiting to be found. We just need to be persistant.


Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Magluvin on August 08, 2012, 07:43:02 AM

This thing should be a no-brainer self runner with the addition of a few belts and pulleys!


MileHigh

Ehh, I wouldnt say that. I did some magnetic gear stuff and if you use many small magnets in close intervals, there is a better more free wheeling connection between the wheels than with a belt or even gears. For physical contact, I would prefer (thin)gears over belts and chains.

But, if the claim is large in OU, then plenty could be wasted on some extra frictions of belts , gears and chains and still have some left over. If.  ;]

All said and done, If the output is just a bit over input, using magnets vs belts would be a good idea. Especially in the longevity department. We wouldnt want our OU device to be out of service because belts are too expensive because oil has skyrocketed, would we? ;]

Also, over a period of time, the losses of a belt or chain would add up. Plus belt replacement.

Remember the Big Trax programmable tank toy?  It used a magnetic clutch connection between the 2 drive motors to keep them in sync when moving forward and back. It also helped sync turn radius positioning, as the motors had optical wheels to measure distance and such according to program, and the mag clutch would lock into place to maintain optics timing positions. Had one as a kid.

When the 2 motors when in opposite directions, the magnetic bond between the magnetic clutch would be mechanically broken and spin quite freely in opposite directions.

These big trax are popular on ebay as many use them as a nice robot base to work with and add Auduinos and other modifications. Some are impressive.

MaGs
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Magluvin on August 08, 2012, 07:50:22 AM
That was, big trak   not trax.  Sorry  lol

http://www.bigtrakisback.com/

MaGs
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on August 08, 2012, 08:17:55 AM
In the midst of ideas setting off the scam alert warning, we may miss the real ones.
 
 
Magnetic coupling employed in a far more sophisticated way by these guys:
 
http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/ (http://pesn.com/2010/07/14/9501672_Terawatt_Research_LLC_defies_free_energy_stereotypes/)
 
 
What's your opinion?
 
Gwandau

yes this one could be very efficient ...
but difficult to replicate ...
who want to give a try ?
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: gadgetmall on August 09, 2012, 08:27:27 AM
Seems to me Magnetic coupling is still coupling and if you add more generators the drag will be the same as if it is coupled with a belt or gears. Take any PM Alternator and you will see they are very hard to turn with a load . If you run one and couple another then another and 3 4 more you will see the drive motor Die or simply the magnetic coupling will just break like a clutch slipping unlike gears .Belts would probably slip also with many Gens running from one motor . If it was so easy then all that would be needed would be a throw switch like the WITTS Dude to remove the power and run it self . Doubtful this is any good . I hope some one could prove this that has some money to burn . I would think that the Pull from two magnets attracting( N-S)  would also require more energy to break away thus taking more energy . Seems maybe a repelling magnet would work better?The original quote "In the test model I built, the drive motor consumed 134 watts of power and produced 184 watts." [1] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMxkkz2VTGA#t=0m56s) seems this is enough to self loop buy they couldn't >?
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: tagor on August 09, 2012, 08:41:42 AM
. Seems maybe a repelling magnet would work better?

yes you are true
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: allcanadian on August 09, 2012, 07:38:27 PM
@Milehigh
Quote

These things can be very offensive if you forget about the lure of over unity and just look at this at face value.  There are people who work in professions related to what this company does and they are flabbergasted to see other people apparently masquerading around and making a mockery of science all for the almighty dollar.
Now that was a good rant!

It was a pretty god rant however as usual it was completely biased.
 
As for making a mockery of science I believe the scientific community has already done a pretty good job of doing that all by themselves. Take the "God particle" for instance where billions upon billions upon billions have been spent in search of a theoretical particle which like so many others pops in and out of existence from multiple magical universes we have never proven actually exist. Now all these thousands of scientist and engineers are probably not donating their time so I'm guessing their getting paid to be there, paid obscene salaries plus overtime to search for a fantasy particle we have no proof actually exists and they have been doing this for decades.
 
To make matters worse this mockery is funded by the taxpayers money, you know those poor people who do not actually have a choice of whether they pay taxes or not, so money is "Taken" from them/us against our will to fund a complete and utter fantasy. At least these private companies seek private investors and these investors have the choice of whether they invest or not where we are not given that opportunity.
 
If you want to see a great scam then you need look not further than most of the mainstream science that is publicly funded because it should be obvious that if they ever succeed then most of them will find themselves unemployed which is priceless. If there was ever an incentive to not succeed or make up nonsensical BS then this would definitely be it, the ultimate scam.
 
I should also note that the people you probably think are stupid and delusional and have said as much are the same people I have a great deal of respect for, that is the people here. The people who willingly give their time and resources, all at their own personal expense, for the slim chance they could make the world a better place.
If that is delusion then count me in, I'm all for it.
 
Regards
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 09, 2012, 11:43:27 PM
allcanadian,

This specific topic may well be reflecting a dead end, which MileHigh is very quick to point out, but any theory involving the harnessing of an electromagnetic unequilibrium is targeted by this guy.

I bet MileHigh will never agree to discredit any conventional science projects, not even the imbecill search for the "god particle" at Cern or the useless almost 50 year old economical distaster of hot fusion research. He seems to lack outside the box thinking as long as it is not confirmed by the ones inside the box, which makes me wonder again and again: What is he doing here at the OverUnity forum?

He is as close to a troll anyone can come without being a troll, still the result of his input most often is the same as that of the trolls.
With guys like him freely roaming here, this forum sometimes reminds me of the old SlapStick game of the fifties, were you are supposed to slap the other participants cards off the table the very moment they try to place them there.

Instead of encouraging one another to try our ideas, guys like MileHigh do their best to discourage anyone from doing experiments that seems to violate the conventional scientific viewpoint. And he is very good at it, to such a degree that I am sure he thinks himself he is doing us a favour by "bringing our wild and unfounded ideas back to earth."  What he doesn't seem to understand is that he is violating the very atmosphere of a novel outlook on things, making sure anything in a direction he dislikes is being discouraged and stalled.

To be curious and open minded like a child without any preconcieved "does not work" concepts is what we need here if we want to succeed in braking new ground, not someone who always is at our heals negatively nagging like an old crone. He really seems to have missed the whole point of being here.
 
This forum should only accept critical input that is empirically verified.
That way we would be free from those people compulsively dedicated to discourage anything unothodox that does not fit with their frame of reference.

Gwandau
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 12:08:17 AM
Gwandau:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29

Quote
In Internet slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang), a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[2] extraneous (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/extraneous#Adjective), or off-topic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-topic) messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion) response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

I am not doing any of the above.  You and many others abuse the definition of the word "troll."  It's a cop out.  You are being a cry baby.  Somebody disagrees with you so you abuse the definition of the term "troll" and you try to change the meaning of the term to "somebody that disagrees with me."  That's simply wrong.

You live in a world where there are differing opinions, you have to deal with it.  Con artists are out there ready and willing to steal your money.  Another thing that everyone has to deal with.

You had no reply to what I told you about magnetic fields.  You claim that "there are a lot of unknowns and things we have yet to learn about magnetic fields" in what I perceive to be pure ignorance.  Have you sat in a calculus class?  After that have you sat in an electronics class?  After that have you sat in an electromagnetics class?

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 10, 2012, 12:55:34 AM
MileHigh,

First of all:
I never accused you for being a troll. I just said that your negative interference have the same effect.

Secondly:
You are critizising and discouraging very much here at the forum instead on encouraging the free research.
That makes me sucpicious of you. Don't you encourage free research in the garage? Then you are in the wrong place.
 
Regarding magnetism: Can you explain what makes a magnet attract a piece of iron without touching it?

If you can, you know more than anybody else on earth. Because nobody knows.
Stephen Hawkings has a theory about the attraction being created by virtual electrons circulating between this universe and another adjacent one.
But that's just a wild theory, still totally impossible to validate.

And don't give me any stupid answers about mere symptons, like the observed differential of rotational spin of electrons in the crystal lattice of a magnet, because this along with everything else we know about magnetism are only SYMPTOMS, nothing more. We know a lot about the symptons of magnetism, making it possible for us to apply magnetsism in many sophisticated devices, but we still don't know why magnetism work.

The source cause for magnetism still is a total mystery, and anything you try to impose on that subject are merely SYMPTOMS.

Gwandau
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 01:30:27 AM
Gawndau:

You are using the same technique as AC.  What makes the sky blue?  Who can say what "blue" really is?  What does water taste like?  How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?  Where does a mobius strip start?

It's just another cop out.  Some con artists say that they can make magnets produce energy out of nothingness.  That's a real and tangible claim.  And your argument is "You can't tell me what magnetism is!"

Quote
Can you explain what makes a magnet attract a piece of iron without touching it?

Yes, absolutely.  You will call that a symptom-centered answer, but IT WORKS.  That's what you have to deal with.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 10, 2012, 01:50:24 AM
MileHigh,
 
What are you doing here at OU?
 
Your prescence is very odd.
OK, I know by now what you want to discourage, but that just makes you a very anti OU member.
 
My question is : Are there any novel and groundbreaking research areas that you want to encourage here at the OU forum?
 
Gwandau
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 02:03:23 AM
Gwandau:

I am not going to answer your "Show me your papers?" question.  You have asked it several times and I am not going to answer it.

What an I doing on OU?  Just read my posts and find out for yourself and decide for yourself.

But I will say this.  My main interest is analyzing compelling free energy propositions.  Sometimes I give people helpful technical advice.  Sometimes when I see absolute junk from people that I think are con artists with a high degree of confidence, I state my opinion.  Very occasionally when I see people that are ordinary experimenters that are not con artists but are deluded and act like demigods I state my opinion.  Do you have a problem with these things?

Please don't ever ask me to "justify" myself again.

What about you?  I asked you what your level of technical education is and you haven't answered.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 10, 2012, 03:10:49 AM
MileHigh,
 
thank you for your answer, and please don't be so edgy, you narcissistic attitude here at the forum inevitably calls for an reaction since you obviously are totally unaware of it.
 
I will keep questioning your behaviour here at the OU forum, repeatedly asking you to justify yourself regarding your discouraging behaviour, since I find your self appointed role as a police here at the OU a bit taxing and overly tense. I hope you are aware that many of us experience you quite demigod-like and just as overly self confident as the guys you talk about.
 
So yes, I have a problem with you discouraging people continously here at the OU forum.
That's why I will continue asking you these questions.
 
I spontaneoulsy react when confronted with people who inflate their own ego at the cost of other peoples confidence in their work.
You have quite a bit there to learn about humbleness and respect for people not sharing your point of view.
 
You asked about my technical education. I have no technical education whatsoever comparable to US college degrees.
 
I am since many years working as a product developer in the surface coating industry which I had the opportunity to
enter without any academically documented knowledge in chemistry and have gained my present level of understanding
by personal studies and my never ceasing curiosity.
 
If you want to patronize me with some heavy academic background, feel free to do so. I don't care for such titles,
since I am fully capable to assimilate any level of knowledge on my own. Personally I think too much influence by
academic schooling may be an obstacle to thinking outside the box. There is a delicate balance involved here.
 
Gwandau
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 03:47:10 AM
Gwandau:

You need to get to the point where you can assimilate information that is contrary to your hopes and desires without making a big stink about it.  You need to reduce your intolerance, because that's clearly what is coming across.

So you have no technical background, and that's why you paraphrased the pitch about the "amplification" from this "energy amplification device" as if it was a serious point that merits study.  You tried to contradict me by parroting what you read.   At the same time, what's staring you in the face is ostensibly an image on a web page of "the device" but after six or more years there still is no device!

It's just plain junk and if that upsets you, so be it.  I take solace in the fact that perhaps someone will read what I said and reconsider writing that $10,000 check, their life savings, and sending it to these people.  Helping those susceptible people and preventing them from being potentially financially ruined at the expense of your chagrin is something that I have no problem with.  Just suck it up because if I do that I am doing a good thing.

You want some food for thought?  Go to PESN and look at the last three or four "noble gas engine" postings.   Myself and Mark E. make mincemeat of John Rohner and to a lesser extent Bob Rohner.  John Rohner is exposed for what he really is, and that's a good thing.  It's so bad sometimes that it's just shocking to see what people can get away with.

Believe me, my morals and my heart are definitely in the right place.  You just see me though your fog, coupled with your willingness to believe what people are telling you without the required knowledge, skill set, and experience to properly evaluate what you are seeing.  On the other hand, to a great extent I have the knowledge, skill set, and experience to evaluate what I am seeing.

If you were wise you would listen to what I say and take it seriously.  Instead, you indulge in the "I am suspicious of what you are saying.  You might be a paid disinformation agent from the bad guys."  That's laughable.

I am real Gwandau and I say what I think, and I am not trying to make anybody's life miserable.  I can speak the truth and I admit that sometimes I can be a bit blunt.  The issue is that people play with motors and think they are in some Alice in Wonderland fantasy sometimes.  With this stuff you have to be real.  Do you think the designers of the iPad sat around one day and said, "Let's add an inductor and pulse it and make the iPad run more efficiently on cold electricity"?  They didn't, it never happened.  And there is no such thing as "cold electricity."

That's the real me and if you can't take it, there is nothing I can do for you.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Gwandau on August 10, 2012, 04:52:10 AM
MileHigh,
 
I actually believe you. I also am beginning to understand what kind of person you are.
 
What you completely seem to miss is that your thick head police acting does more harm than good here at the OU forum. I have been witness to your brutality and unsensitive judgemental behaviour causing some quite sad effects upon real honest people with pure intents , and I will keep watching you from now on.
 
You so totally lack the childish open minded curiosity that makes all the difference in innovation. If it weren't for the damage you do to the inspiration of novelity here at the OU by rumbling around playing police with your foul smelling bag of orthodox rigidity, I couldn't care less. But since you actions are counteracting the very idea of the OU forum, which is to encourage outside the box thinking, I will try to make your damage as small as possible.
 
As I said earlier, there should be a rule here that criticism only was allowed when empirically proven valid.
If such were the case, you would be out of work here at the OU, mr. ThickHead Policeman.
 
This ends my comment for the time being. But be sure I'll be in touch.
 
Gwandau
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: poynt99 on August 10, 2012, 05:16:30 AM
As I said earlier, there should be a rule here that criticism only was allowed when empirically proven valid.
If such were the case, you would be out of work here at the OU, mr. ThickHead Policeman.
The same can be said of the countless outlandish claims - they should not be allowed until empirically proven.
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 05:20:16 AM
Gwandau:

You are grossly exaggerating the way you speak of me.  I am not trying to be a policeman.  I have asked reasonable questions sometimes and if you take offense your perception is skewed.

Reading between the lines, what you are implicitly endorsing is that in fact you are going to be "the police."  It's verboten to ask someone how they made their measurements, you can't "break the buzz."  You make it sound like all of the experimenters have fragile egos and they have to be coddled and live in a world of make believe where nobody asks them to defend their proposition.  Some of them are actually like that, but one has to assume that most are not, and they have normally balanced egos.

That kind of attitude is the reason why the space shuttle Challenger blew up in 1986.  There was a pervasive culture of not being allowed to express dissent and question policy and procedures, and it was fully investigated and a report was made.  You can see the same thing on the forums.  Someone claims an over unity measurement and everybody congratulates the experimenter and not a single person questions the results, and the experimenter most likely doesn't even show his measurements.  It's very unhealthy and intellectually stifling.  People waste weeks and weeks and weeks because nothing is questioned.  It's a form of oppression and you want to be the police man that makes sure the culture of oppression remains in place - because you want to watch the "free energy show" and make sure that all of the experimenters are nicely stroked, you would be doing the wrong thing.  It sounds like North Korea.

You think that you are the good guy but in fact you are the bad guy.  I suggest that you throw your pitchfork away and just be.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Magluvin on August 10, 2012, 05:42:25 AM
Gwandau:
  It a form of oppression and you want to be the police man that makes sure the culture of oppression remains in place - because you want to watch the "free energy show" and make sure that all of the experimenters are nicely stroked.  It sounds like North Korea.

You think that you are the good guy but in fact you are the bad guy.  I suggest that you throw your pitchfork away and just be.

MileHigh

Do you seriously believe that Gwandau is this person you describe? Prove it.

If you can say that, without proof, then WE can call you MIB 8) , dawg. Its real easy. And there is no difference. Actually there is a difference. You M, complain when people say what they think of you. And it is not just Gwandau that thinks the same. I can put together a list if you like, with links. ;]  I use page saves and I make folders. Its easier to reference, the things I want to reference. ;]

And a couple posts earlier on this page you said,  "Please don't ever ask me to "justify" myself again." 

Well, you are asking Gwandau to justify what he is doing here on this thread, are you not? In many ways you are.

Its your attitude. When Gwandau compares you to police, that is how he feels in the way you "ask" and push for answers or work to be done specifically, like some drill Sargent that owns this bitch.  Well, you dont.

So stop acting like it.

MaGs  :o
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 06:00:12 AM
Mags:

Go ahead and post the list if you want.  The point I am making is important.  There is a culture of fear - being afraid to ask your fellow experimenters to demonstrate how they made their measurements and to put forth a valid argument to explain their proposition.  So if I question that, it invokes a double fear.  And sometimes people think that they can swing an oppression club and reenforce the status quo.  You should all encourage each other to ask questions and even express doubt.

I am not going to be intimidated by you and your attitude.  I will ask reasonable questions when I want to and that's it.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 10, 2012, 06:15:05 AM
Bump!
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 06:22:13 AM
Bill:

You could learn about being reasonable yourself.  About two years ago you beat the living crap out of me because I could not remember the typical voltage drop across an LED.  Then more recently Magluvin did the same thing.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 10, 2012, 06:30:06 AM
Bill:

You could learn about being reasonable yourself.  About two years ago you beat the living crap out of me because I could not remember the typical voltage drop across an LED.  Then more recently Maglvin did the same thing.

MileHigh

I do not recall that.  I also doubt that you would not remember something like that.  All I was saying is that it is the way things are asked that can make a huge difference.  Sure, I am all for going after someone selling something that is clearly a fraud, and I commend you for doing so in the cases you mentioned.  But,(hopefully) here it might just be a case where a guy does not know something...or has measured incorrectly....they should not be treated like the fraud guys.  Obviously, not everyone here has your background or knowledge.  This is all I am pointing out.

If I indeed gave you a hard time for forgetting the led voltage drop, then I apologize.

Bill
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Magluvin on August 10, 2012, 06:36:14 AM
Mags:

Go ahead and post the list if you want.  The point I am making is important.  There is a culture of fear - being afraid to ask your fellow experimenters to demonstrate how they made their measurements and to put forth a valid argument to explain their proposition.  So if I question that, it invokes a double fear.  And sometimes people think that they can swing an oppression club and reenforce the status quo.  You should all encourage each other to ask questions and even express doubt.

I am not going to be intimidated by you and your attitude.  I will ask reasonable questions when I want to and that's it.

MileHigh

Can you not tell how people receive your comments? Why does it have to be that way? Hmmm?

Its like you are super lazy. You make all these demands of people, without lifting a resistor to prove your end. Wuts that all about? Where's my Hossenfeffa!!!

Be a man like TK and do something. If he doesnt get answers from people about a device, that peaks his interest, as your interests seem to be here, then he builds it. Then when he builds it and it doesnt work, he has way more right to further question, than someone who just thinks they know it all.

I remember you asking me to make a pulse motor with a hidden battery. A device to teach people with you said.

When I think about that, I think, how many people that are hopeful and working towards OU or FE, would ask me or anyone to do such a thing. I cant think of any..

Then I got to thinking about people that are against, or not for the belief of OU.
Yea, I can see these people, especially the ones 'against', that would try to put me up to such a task. All for the sake of implanting "FAKE" to all that see.

I rebuked the idea, if you remember. Why would someone want to disrupt someone from what they are already doing, to make 'another' fake out there? There are plenty already, Why should I waste the time the magnets or even the cost of that battery to build a battery powered motor and make it look like it is running without a battery, when Im looking for ways to get rid of the battery?

Why was it that you wanted me to make a fake? What was the goal of that idea?

MaGs
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 06:41:50 AM
Bill:

I accept your apology.  I can make the distinction between outside parties or organizations that appear to be complete frauds and real experimenters around here that are legitimately trying to accomplish something.  But even if you are trying to accomplish something and your goals are sincere, one can not ignore the facts on the bench.  I agree that that's a delicate issue and I could probably do better.  But I am not in any way maliciously "going after" people, ever.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 10, 2012, 06:51:19 AM
MH:

I am very glad to hear that.  Yes, it can be a fine distinction sometimes as we don't always know the "goals" of the person posting a device. (ie Mylow)  We need folks here that know what they are doing and, I know you are one of them.  I look forward to your input on my next experimentation attempts.

Thank you,

Bill
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: MileHigh on August 10, 2012, 06:56:37 AM
Mags:

The goal for the fake was to demonstrate how if your friend or acquaintance could put up a clip of a motor that was fake, the way to prove it was a fake was to duplicate the effect - with another fake.

I suppose it's related to seeing an alleged free energy motor clip on YouTube - and clearly seeing that there is ample physical volume within the device to contain a battery or batteries, and not questioning if there might be hidden batteries.

Any time I see an alleged self-runner motor on YouTube I look for places to hide batteries, blow air, have an induction coil hidden behind a nearby surface, or if it appears that the video is being looped.  Likewise, with a 340P or even a 480P clip on YouTube you can sill run fine magnet wire that will either not be picked up by the camera or will be lost when the video is compressed.

Of course the fine magnet wire not being picked up by the camera or lost in the compression is related to the Mylow saga.  I did not figure out the solution to the Mylow mystery myself.

MileHigh
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 10, 2012, 07:04:49 AM
I am sorry for the way off-topic post here but...since I mentioned Mylow....did we ever find out what his purpose was?  Did he ever appear again?  I was proud of the guys here on OU that investigated that and exposed it for what it was.  I will never, ever understand what would motivate someone to do something like that.  If I had a device that I thought might work...and it didn't....I would never decide to "fake" it so it looked like it did.  I would come on here and tell what I did and how it didn't work hoping that maybe someone...or some folks might be able to make it work.  Let's hope we never see the likes of Mylow ever again.

Bill
Title: Re: Electricity Amplification Device - It's so simple !!! (Hatem Magnetic Cogging)
Post by: Magluvin on August 10, 2012, 07:25:51 AM
M

Yea, well there are plenty out there that me making another one and putting it on YT does only 2 things.

1 it puts just another nail in the "there is no OU" coffin. I know that is your preference. ;]

2 makes me look like a faker.  Im not about to be part of that club.

When I was a kid, I got this magic kit. Just looking at the box, the wonders that I could do.  But after I learned all the tricks, it all seemed lame. No 'real' magic. just tricking people. Its like practicing lies.

Like instead of asking me to build a fake, you could just build one. No? Its just a pulse motor. Should be a synch for you. ;]

Or you could start a blog with links and vids of all the fakes you have busted. No?

There has to be thousands of them out there. Literally.

What would I learn from building a pulse motor, that runs on a battery, except that I have hidden the battery, so that others might think it is a free energy device(at first). Here is what I would learn...

Daily pages of comments and PMs to deal with every day, even after showing that it is a fake, there will still be amateur hopefuls asking for schematics and plans on how to build this free energy device.

I wont be a part of all that confusion. Why would anyone want to be?  Hmmm?

It is neither necessary nor helpful, to add another 'fake' to the charts. It is so flooded with fakes already, that people wont recognize the real thing if it happens. Needles in the haystack.  Right M?

There might be a couple or a few, good devices or ideas out there and people just overlook them, amongst all the 'fakes'  I wont be a part of fakery. I dont believe in Magic anymore. ;]

Mags