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Author Topic: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics  (Read 42202 times)

Offline SchubertReijiMaigo

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2010, 12:21:26 AM »
A magnet doesn't create energy... A static force doesn't produce energy, energy is movement... If you place a magnet before a coil and you don't move the magnet you have no energy, a static field doesn't produce any energy, you need to moove the magnet before the coil to produce EMF and electricity, the big problem is the lenz law that oppose your input. To produce energy you need movement, a force is static, for exemple a voltage mean nothing without amperage, even with "static electricty" you have micro or even nano Ampers of current...
To simplify: take a transformer.
1) Feed it with DC current (static field like a PM) --> try to measure the voltage at the secondary...
2) Feed it with AC current  (dynamic field) --> measure the output voltage...
The magnet on the fridge don't move, yes you are right, it work against gravity, you can do the same thing with a regular metal (or any other object) and glue it with your glue stick on the fridge.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2010, 12:21:26 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2010, 02:33:21 AM »
Rosemary, there must be some mistake. I don't know anything about skepticism, free energy, or critical thinking, but I do know this much:

When I click on the scribd reference you frequently give that links to a paper you and some others wrote, I immediately see the IEEE banner, and I see the IEEE journal name on every page of the paper.
Yet, I have heard from others that the IEEE journal(s) have rejected this paper, as many as 5 times, and it has definitely NOT been accepted for publication.
Hence, the mistake. It seems to me that EITHER the paper HAS been accepted, and thus your continuing use of IEEE in the link and on the paper is legitimate and legal and not a violation of IEEE copyright --- OR my other informants are correct, the paper has NOT been accepted, and thus the use of the IEEE initials and so forth is ... a mistake.
But everyone who clicks through to that paper is likely to believe that IEEE has endorsed it somehow, since you are using their initials AS IF they had actually accepted it for publication.

Is that right?

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2010, 03:03:05 AM »
@loner

Always a pleasure to hear from you Art. Your comments and insights are always welcome, whether in disagreement or agreement alike.

@all

Indeed, in physics a magnet is indeed moving, whether or not it moves. :-)

Considering a fridge magnet, the two masses are under constant acceleration towards each other. (The fridge, and the magnet). Since the magnet does not have the force to overcome the inertial resistance of the mass of the refrigerator, the tiny mass of the magnet itself is forced to move.

Now, in this manner a magnet is just like gravity, in that the mass is continually falling towards the fridge with X force dependent upon the energy of the magnetic field, and that is what holds the nonmagnetic papers in place.  If the motion were not constant, or the field was truly static,  the magnet would instantly be overcome by the force of gravity as there is no other force holding it in place.

EXACTLY like gravity is holding you to the earth despite the centrifugal effect which would otherwise throw you off of the earth due to it's rotation.

It is a force being actively employed to overcome a different force acting against it, so yes work is being done.

Glues do not generally work by energy transference, but mechanical bonding . IE the material penetrates the surface of both items to some extent, then hardens. In this case, the glue actually COMBINES the two objects, making then logically one object. Gravity in this case does not have to overcome a general force, but cause a material failure or breakage.

This perpetual magnet (choke) problem is not as easy to dismiss as it first appears. :-)

The concept of a static but active field is somewhat of a conceptual case of circular logic. A static field is neither interacting nor in motion itself, nor causing motion.. It is static, and no energy is either moving, being gained nor expended.

A magnetic field is only truly static if it is not causing motion, yet anytime a force is overcome, we see the effects of acceleration, even if the distance traveled over time is zero.

Therefore, by our terms static, we mean a lack of acceleration, not of motion. Motion is actually therefore a relative term with little meaning, only gaining meaning when applied towards an observers frame of reference.

Acceleration however is ONLY applicable to an object in motion. If acceleration is present, work is being done. Therefore, though the magnet appears stationary, it's constant state of acceleration denies lack of work.

:-)

Paul Andrulis

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2010, 03:03:05 AM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2010, 04:17:28 AM »
Rosemary, there must be some mistake. I don't know anything about skepticism, free energy, or critical thinking, but I do know this much:

When I click on the scribd reference you frequently give that links to a paper you and some others wrote, I immediately see the IEEE banner, and I see the IEEE journal name on every page of the paper.
Yet, I have heard from others that the IEEE journal(s) have rejected this paper, as many as 5 times, and it has definitely NOT been accepted for publication.
Hence, the mistake. It seems to me that EITHER the paper HAS been accepted, and thus your continuing use of IEEE in the link and on the paper is legitimate and legal and not a violation of IEEE copyright --- OR my other informants are correct, the paper has NOT been accepted, and thus the use of the IEEE initials and so forth is ... a mistake.
But everyone who clicks through to that paper is likely to believe that IEEE has endorsed it somehow, since you are using their initials AS IF they had actually accepted it for publication.

Is that right?

Hello TK.  I'm afraid this is entirely off topic in this thread and will take the trouble to answer it on my own.

Regards,
Rosemary

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2010, 05:31:16 AM »
(I'm cringing slightly from the expected torrent of logic I'm about to get hit with.)

 ;D

Art

You won't get that torrent from me Art.  I wholeheartedly agree with what you've written.  Very well put.  But I DO however think that the stationery magnet is - nonetheless - working.  It's defying the gravitational pull. 

Nice subject.

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2010, 05:31:16 AM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2010, 06:13:58 AM »
;D   Rose, that statement hits the nail on the head!

What is the "Definition" of "Work"!

I agree, that from a normal humans point of view, work is being done.

As far as physics, no work is being done.  Tough situation, but timely.

For the "Physics" definition, try this link....   
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Work_%28physics%29

This definition has nothing to do  with "Real World" working, but defines what physics calls the value "Work", just like volts, ohms, joules, amps, teslas, etc.  Just a defined value.

I'm sure I nit-picking, as I said, but it's a good exercise in critical thinking because both views are correct, depending on the type of "Work" you are referencing.  I guess it really is all relative.....

It's all very interesting Loner.  But I suspect there's not that much interest generally.  Which is why I'm delighted to see the thinking that the PaulDude and others - are showing us here.  Love it. 

Kindest regards,
Rosie

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 04:51:06 PM »
Hello TK.  I'm afraid this is entirely off topic in this thread and will take the trouble to answer it on my own.

Regards,
Rosemary

I don't think so. TinselKoala show us his skepticism and the efficiency of the method: now we know there is a suspicion of fraud about the legitimacy of using IEEE references while IEEE doesn't support the paper in question and rejected it several times.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 04:51:06 PM »
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Offline truthbeknown

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2010, 08:23:32 PM »
I don't think so. TinselKoala show us his skepticism and the efficiency of the method: now we know there is a suspicion of fraud about the legitimacy of using IEEE references while IEEE doesn't support the paper in question and rejected it several times.

Yes, I agree that the QUESTION is on topic for this thread.

 8)
J.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 11:38:53 PM by truthbeknown »

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2010, 08:50:42 PM »
I don't think so. TinselKoala show us his skepticism and the efficiency of the method: now we know there is a suspicion of fraud about the legitimacy of using IEEE references while IEEE doesn't support the paper in question and rejected it several times.

Exnihiloest - I think you'd do well to read this post very closely.

Under normal circumstances people are slow to point a finger at anyone at all to accuse them of fraud.  BUT, if you have proof of fraud then I seriously propose that you go the usual route and resolve this in Court - either in your individual capacity - or simply by reporting it to the CID or to any office that protects the public from internet scams.  But you would be well advised to be in a position to substantiate that claim.   

This is no IDLE allegation.  FRAUD is a criminal offense and it carries very serious consequences not least of which is jail.  And you, unlike TK - have breached a barrier here by actually stating your suspicion of fraud.  You have openly and publicly accused me of this.  Fortunately justice is a two way street.  Under usual circumstances I would be in the happy position to defend myself against both the allegation and the accuser.  And, because I know it's a load of crap I would immediately counter sue you for the slander.  That would carry a penalty that I hope would impoverish you.

I think you assume that you can dodge these consequences.  You can slander me to your heart's content and not be accountable.  This because you hide behind a forum identity.  We only know you as exnihiloest.  Who is he?  Just a sad spiteful little poster who tries to make everyone's life hell.  But you have forgotten exnihiloest - that my counter claim - which is more than justifiable - would be to those same parties that not only protect the innocent from fraudulent consequences but also protect the innocent from rampant slander.  And as I am, indeed, an innocent party as there is not a shred of evidence in support of your claim,  then as of now, I'm in a reallly strong a position to take action against you.  I doubt that your identity would be protected against a court order demanding disclosure.  In the face of a Court Order I very much doubt that any confidential information will remain confidential.  It may very well be that you'll need to duck for cover.

I promise you that if you do not retract that statement and if you insist that I have been culpable of fraud - or if you do not withdraw your 'suspicions' relating to this - then I will report you.  It's not the first time I've gone this route.  And clearly it won't be the last.

How dare you.  I would add that I delight in referencing the fact that the paper has never been published.  And if I have ever misrepresented the fact, even unintentionally - then it would be counter productive rather than otherwise.  It is the theme of this forum that the most of academia are entirely unaware of the progress made in these forums and it is my complaint that this is the consequence of the IEEE, TIE and IET not allowing the evidence to come forward.

Rosemary Ainslie
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 09:33:38 PM by Rosemary Ainslie »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2010, 08:50:42 PM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2010, 09:01:57 PM »
Yes, I agree that the question is on topic for this thread.

 8)
J.

And I would assure you too, truthbeknown - that if you are publicly sharing these suspicions then you too must give some substantial proof of the allegation and I reserve my rights.

Offline truthbeknown

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »
I don't think so. TinselKoala show us his skepticism and the efficiency of the method: now we know there is a suspicion of fraud about the legitimacy of using IEEE references while IEEE doesn't support the paper in question and rejected it several times.


Hmmmmmm. To those who read here....Am I missing something in the translation? I didn't think exnihiloest accused anybody of anything..It was just stated that Tinselkoala's comment was on topic for this thread....

Oh my my my.....I guess we can get SUED from asking a question? Oh the futility of it all.

 :o
J.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 11:09:07 PM by truthbeknown »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #25 on: October 16, 2010, 09:10:35 PM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2010, 09:11:07 PM »
And may I add - for the benefit of both exnihiloest and truthbeknown - that I have an enormous appetite for litigation.  I see this as a desirable forum for bringing the facts of ours and other experimental evidence that the public can be alerted to it.  If I am defending my good name or defending myself against allegations of fraud - in both instances I will be in the happy and rather public position of referring to all that experimental evidence.  It will be a means of getting the 'truth known'.

Rosemary Ainslie

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2010, 09:13:46 PM »
now we know there is a suspicion of fraud about the legitimacy of using IEEE references while IEEE doesn't support the paper in question and rejected it several times.

There is NOTHING ambivalent in that statement.

EDITED  Paul, abject apologies that this subject has been intruded on your own excellent thread.  I have no option but to deal with this and hope you understand.  Hopefully - somehow - this matter is now dealt with.

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Offline spinn_MP

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2010, 09:38:17 PM »
I don't think so. TinselKoala show us his skepticism and the efficiency of the method: now we know there is a suspicion of fraud about the legitimacy of using IEEE references while IEEE doesn't support the paper in question and rejected it several times.
Yep.

What, "Miss MosFet" is already threatening people with the legal ("I'll sue u!") stuff?
ROTFLMAO!!

Financed with a "17*ou" project, probably...
What a joke...

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: Free Energy, Critical Thinking, and Skeptics
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2010, 09:58:25 PM »
Yep.

What, "Miss MosFet" is already threatening people with the legal ("I'll sue u!") stuff?
ROTFLMAO!!

Financed with a "17*ou" project, probably...
What a joke...

Hello Spin.  I took the trouble to read all your posts - just to see what I'm up against here.  I must hand it to you.  You're ALWAYS objectionable.  At least I had a laugh and at least I'm now in a better mood.  I actually enjoyed the miss mosfet thread.  LOL.  Quite witty - here and there in a sort of old men giggling and being disgusting sort of way. 

I don't need to finance anything if I'm defending.  That's always a comfort.  But if I did need to I would certainly NOT use any money from COP>17 technology.  There simply isn't any.  No.  I've been in endless conversation with CID - when our technology was being snaffled by some trolls from another forum.  So I know I little whereof I speak.  And I assure you they're more active than we probably realise.  But mostly against internet  p*** at this stage.

You're dislike of us all is so COMPREHENSIVE.  I suspect if you ever got religion you'd be even more insufferable.  LOL.  But be careful here.  You're siding with Omnibus - in a sort of vicarious way.  I think he'll be the next to add some comment.  But always nice to see your own.  It's just so utterly malicious it's reached a kind of art form.  You've been practising - clearly.

Regards,
Rosemary

Golly.  That was edited?

 

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