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Author Topic: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage  (Read 77230 times)

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2011, 02:50:11 PM »
I think you mean CSET in stead of CEST but thanks again for the info. :)

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2011, 02:50:11 PM »

Offline sigma16

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2011, 04:44:01 PM »
Thanks Spokane1.

Found a little more here:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/TechnicalDiscussion/RichardHackenberger/index.html

I know about the increased force they talk about.  Interesting.

Offline Spokane1

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2011, 07:51:12 PM »
Thanks Spokane1.

Found a little more here:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/EdGrayMotor/PM_PEM_MG/TechnicalDiscussion/RichardHackenberger/index.html

I know about the increased force they talk about.  Interesting.

There is a lot of good information in Mr. Hackenberger's and I recommend several readings for serious researchers.

Keep in mind that when this report was written:

1. E.V. Gray had absolutly no patent protection in place for this technology at that time. Therefore Ritchard was limited as to what he could say. In fact I think he said to much given their level of coverage.

2. Richard was giving his best explaination he could as he was able to assertain from observation of the working prototypes left behind by Marvin Cole. At that time he didn't have the complete story or else the EMA6 would have worked from the get-go. However, what he shares is a pretty good starting point.

3. What he doesn't share is just where does this arc reaction take place that does all this kinetic manipulation. If some amount of  kinetic energy is a required input feed stock to this process, then it can't take place in a fixed electrode system. He would have saved reverse engineers years if he had disclosed the specific reaction site of this novel process.

4. Richard also hints at how a good portion of the manifested energy is recovered. Many researchers assume it is in current generated from the collapsing fileds of the engine electromagnets. However Mr. Hackenberger specifically states that it is from the collapsing of an electrostatic field from the engine plates. This is a far different process and one normally overlooked by us classicaly trained individuals who are not exposed to electrostatic systems in common electronic-electrical equipment.

I could ramble on for hours about the speculative engineering aspects of this technology. But none of it would mean crap until I build and test all of these assertions. Its a slow process to build rotary appratus even with a verticle mill and lathe on hand (and keep a full time job), but I'm moving at a snails pace.

A recent breakthrough may have changed all that. Do you recall the little 3" diameter EMA4 model (which I call the EMA0) that Jack Sacganetti had a photograph of in his 1973 article? Well this model has come into my possession. After taking it apart a whole new world has been reveled to me about the operation of this technology. I have been able to eleminate several compeating theories and focus on the ones that are represented in the fine detail that this model holds.

I'm composing a long paper on how this model acts as the Rosetta Stone (for me). I have all the photos, drawings, calculations, SPICE III simulations, patent illustrations, and support patent illustrations all combined in one document. Right now I'm up to 50 pages and it may well go over 100. Peter Lindemann has agreeded to edit and add to this document. He will make it available on his website in a downloadable color pdf format for a small fee.

Peter is alo editing a 40 page document about the time line of all the motors/engines. This contains all that we know about the 15 motors/engines to date. He is tied up for the next couple of months so it may be awhile before any of these papers are readyto down load.

Spokane1

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2011, 07:51:12 PM »
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Offline sigma16

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2011, 08:27:41 PM »
Notice that the Gray tube patent is for "inductive loads".  What if the tube produces some effect in an inductor rather than just current?  That would throw a lot of BS explanations to the wind.

EDIT:
Looked at patent 4,595,975 for Ed Gray and he says something to the effect that an electrostatic charge is induced in the tub grids and this produces a very strong magnetic field in the inductive load.  It sounds as though the tube is nothing more than a fancy switch to produce the "effect" in the inductive load.  Interesting.  so all attempts to replicate this tube and produce usable power were in vain.  ROFLMAO!!!  OH THE IRONY!  This makes more sense now.  I mean why would you need a special motor if you had an OU generator?  Ed had the "effect" but not a generator that used the effect to produce electric current directly.  So he used the effect to produce a motor that could then generate electric current. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 10:59:33 PM by sigma16 »

Offline sigma16

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2011, 11:32:32 PM »
Ed makes some interesting statements and a demonstration here:

http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=955

Quote
All the corporate officers agreed that they are determined to get around the money roadblocks and bestow the discovery upon the world.

Tattler was given a thorough demonstration of Gray's "impossible-but-true" methods for using electricity.

The first demonstration proved that Gray uses a totally different form of electrical current --- a powerful, but "cold" form of the energy.

A 6-volt car battery rested on a table. Lead wires ran from the battery to a series of capacitors which are the key to Gray's discovery. The complete system was wired to two electromagnets, each weighing a pound and a quarter.

"Now, if you tried to charge those two magnets with juice form that battery and make them do what I'm going to make them do, you would drain the battery in 30 minutes and the magnets would get extremely hot", Gray explained.

"I want you to watch what happens."

As Lens activated the battery, a voltmeter gradually rose to 3,000 volts, At that point, Gray closed a switch and there was a loud popping sound. The top magnet hurled into the air with tremendous force and was caught by Hackenberger. A terrific jolt of electricity had propelled the top magnet more than two feet into the air --- but the magnet remained cold.

"The amazing thing", Hackenberger said, "is that only 1% of the energy was used --- 99% went back into the battery."

Gray explained, "The battery can last for a long time, because most of the energy returns to it. The secret to this is in the capacitors and in being able to split the positive."

When Gray said "split the positive", the faces of two knowledgeable physicists screwed up in bewilderment. Normally, electricity consists of positive and negative particles. But Gray's system is capable of using one or the other separately and effectively.

"He means we have to rewrite the physics textbooks", Hackenberger grinned. It has been the engineer's job in recent months to formulate gray's system and put it into writing.

"That's not an easy job because this system actually defies everything I've ever learned."

Gray said, "I never had no schooling in electronics or physics, so nobody told me it was impossible."


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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2011, 11:32:32 PM »
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Offline Spokane1

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2011, 08:51:17 AM »
Notice that the Gray tube patent is for "inductive loads".  What if the tube produces some effect in an inductor rather than just current?  That would throw a lot of BS explanations to the wind.

EDIT:
Looked at patent 4,595,975 for Ed Gray and he says something to the effect that an electrostatic charge is induced in the tub grids and this produces a very strong magnetic field in the inductive load.  It sounds as though the tube is nothing more than a fancy switch to produce the "effect" in the inductive load.  Interesting.  so all attempts to replicate this tube and produce usable power were in vain.  ROFLMAO!!!  OH THE IRONY!  This makes more sense now.  I mean why would you need a special motor if you had an OU generator?  Ed had the "effect" but not a generator that used the effect to produce electric current directly.  So he used the effect to produce a motor that could then generate electric current.

Dear Sigma 16,

It took me years and several interviews to sort the true technical grit from the misleading statements in the patent documents. After a while I followed the money to figure out was was "bull" and what was real. Unfortunately, among his family and associates, Mr. Gray was known to stretch the truth a whole lot. In fact what he didn't know - he made up. (as time goes on I find that he knew even less)

It took me a while to get over this reality back in 2007 when I had the chance to interview Mr. Nelson Schlaft in Palmdale, CA. According to "Rocky" Mr. Gray didn't know Ohms Law after working with this stuff for a decade. According to John Bedini (1973) he didn't even know what a thyratron was. He was a great auto-body fender man and a great promoter. But being knowledgeable about the microphysics of this fantastic process he didn't have a clue.(But he knew it was PFM) He did know the general things that were needed to make some kind of Free-Energy Engine, but not all of them. He was unable to help out Mr. Hackenberger as they stood on the brink of financial ruin in 1976. He was unable to fix his "own" engine in 1973 when the Japanese were ready to sign a billion dollar deal for Asian licensing rights.

If Gray had known so much about his tube, engine, and Electrostatic Generator, then why didn't he build any one of these devices in the decade after 1980 instead of making bogus video props? [The Electrostatic Generator only had $58 worth of parts in it] He was certainly in need of working prototypes to sell his equipment. As it was, according to his son Mark, two different military men came calling to observe what he had going at the time while in Counsel, ID and they commented " you insult my intelligence with such a foolish technology"(or words to that effect).

Follow the money and you can better separate the important reality from the gobbledygook that you read in the patent documents. I only started making real progress when I came to accept the idea that Gray was a salesman and promoter - not a scientist, self trained or otherwise. According to his son Dr. James Gray all of those schools that Gray said he attended in the military are pure lies.

All of this is just my opinion from my research and judgement. (My posts are worth exactly what you pay for them)

You will have to sort out the fact from the fantasy for yourself to determine just what clues you want to follow and what comments your are going to pass over. Its not easy. I will have my personal analysis available in a couple of months - right or wrong.

This is not a cheap hobby to follow, at least if you take the road I'm going. Select well what ideas you want to invest your time, money and inspiration in. You can spend years exploring some concept that Gray made up and you will most likely eventually end up with a collection of useless custom apparatus. (But I'm sure you will learn something from the effort). Consider all the serious experimenters who made reproduction pulse motors (Porter, Lennon, and other individuals on Youtube) based upon the Pulse Engine patent, only to find out that there was not enough torque developed to turn even the smallest load.

If you want to follow the CEST route talk to Mr. Gary Magratten who has spent five years and 10's of thousands of dollars following the tube patents. He is a structural engineer and had the help of an MIT electronics engineer with some generous funding to boot. He has studied just about every thing known about a DC arc. Start by asking for his 86 page report on the arc physics as it pertains to the Gray tube. Once you get that document under your belt you will be ready to explore your own ideas and hopefully advance what is already known.

We can discuss what Gray said, what he meant, what we think he meant, what he might have meant till the cows come home. What counts, when the rubber meets the road, is what our experiments tell us. Nothing that I or anybody else says (or posts) will matter a squat until we have verifiable data that others can reproduce.

There are just a few comments that Gray ever said that I consider useful. The rest is, well ...... you get the idea. So far, what Hackenberger has written seems 80-90% correct. To bad that he didn't write more. But, given the protection they had I'm surprised that he wrote as much as he did.

The real technology clues, for me, didn't come from the text in any of the patents. They came from the generous GD document photos, audio tapes, and business documentation. They also came from the patent illustrations and studying the references to the support patents. The availability of the EMA0 has just taken my personal insight (which could be completely wrong) to another level. All of the interviews I've done have only shed light on the business saga, but nary a usable technical clue on how this stuff actually worked.

Before you take the patent(s) text as gospel know full well who E.V.Gray was, what his intent was, and just what his degree of technical competency was. (I hope he spelled better than I do)

Other than that, best of luck in your personal E.V. Gray adventure. Anyone who takes a solder gun to attempt to figure out just some small part of this technology has my respect no matter how far we diverge in our technical opinions or the analysis of the meager clues that are left to us.

No matter how much it appears that I badmouth Gray for his technical ability he still was the founder of this technology and without him none of this would have happened. He utilized all the skills he had to bring this technology to the world and was beaten down every step of the way. He spent his life in this pursuit. I sincerely respect his and Mr. Hackenberger's tenacity and gumption.

Spokane1

Offline CompuTutor

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2011, 09:00:19 AM »
AMEN !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2011, 09:00:19 AM »
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Offline Spokane1

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #67 on: January 20, 2011, 09:38:35 PM »
Dear XS-NRG

For some reason I keep getting error messages when I attempt to respond to you personal message. Perhaps its this vacation computer I'm using this week. I shall respond here.

I feel your pain. I withdrew from E.V. Gray research for almost a year wfter I interviewed Nelson Schlaft for 3 days.  All the fond opinions I had of Gray came crashing on the rocks of reality. All the emerging theories I had about the evolution of this technology went up in smoke. I had already written about 3 papers that were now largely toast based on what I had learned. It is amazing just how big of a castle we can build from sand.

Well, as it turn out Gray was not Nicola Tesla reincarnated. I thought it was really neat that someone could build equipment like this by being self taught. Such was not the case. Gray was a working man that had this magic dropped in his lap. He did the best he could with it. The real technical advancement came from a Mr. Marvin Cole. Only two people knew who Cole was (Dr. James Gray and George Gray). I know almost nothing about Mr. Cole, who he was, what he thought, what his struggles were, or what kind of car he drove. All we have is the equipment he left behind (that Gray claimed was his creation). It's really hard to make someone a hero when you know so little about them. I certainly like to have heros. It helps deal with the isolation one feels when bucking mainstream science.

Never the less, the technology that Gray fumbled with is "Pure F___king Magic" (PFM). There is only the Crosby Report to validate the importance of what these people were devoting their lives to. But a serious review of the emerging historical events shows that there is a lot of other evidence to show that a number of technically intelligent people were really impressed with what they saw in the 1972-1974 period.

Marvin Cole left the project and told Gray to not whisper a word that he had anything to do with this equipment as he left town stating that he would never return or see Gray again. (A small amount of money might have changed hands). What freaked him out was the obvservation of an associated anti-gravity phenomena. He could just barely deal with the Free-Energy aspects of this technology. The anit-gravity thing push him over the edge. Fortunaly he didn't make his living in establishment research - he was a chef by trade not by training. Mr. Cole appears to have been the independant individualist that was deathly afraid of being commendeered into some secret government (not necessaraly the US) laboratory to work as a confined slave for the rest of his life.
Can't say that I blame him.

The good news is that when you finally sort out was was valaid and what was crap we end up with the EMA4 Free-Energy Engine as being the zenith of this technology. It just so happens that this is the device we have the most information on. We have the Pulse Engine patent, the numerous GD photos, the Hackenberger engineering reports, and now the EMA0 model. It's not much but it a heck of a lot more than what I started out with in 2002.

To me the CEST device has been an unfortunate distraction from the sucessful technology. I spent 2.5 years building CEST devices and popping arcs in a number of experiments and configurations. I didn't observe a single event that would qualify as "Radient Energy". After studing the history of what happen when and by who it became clear to me that Mr. Hackenberger had made a wrong turn in has attempt to improve on what was. I'm going back and doing it the way tha Cole did - or at least as much as I can descern.

Hang in there, this technology is real, powerful and important.

Spokane1

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2011, 10:43:20 PM »
Dear XS-NRG

Hang in there, this technology is real, powerful and important.

Spokane1

I don't think so.
Someone just said those batteries under the cart were not powefull enough to run that motor but i know better...
That's a very powerfull source and you can certainly drive that motor for an extended peroide of time.\
I work with these types of battery's and i know what they can do.

I have lost faith, i build several CSET's and i was never able to see anything unusual, so the fact that this was all a joke does not come as a surprise.
But yes i feel bad because when even the big ones turn out to be a hoax then not many is left...
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 11:17:49 PM by XS-NRG »

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2011, 10:43:20 PM »
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Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #69 on: January 21, 2011, 01:54:34 AM »
Here found a better pic.
This was build to the specs of the patent.


Offline poynt99

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2011, 02:10:14 AM »
Here found a better pic.
This was build to the specs of the patent.

marco, so it is you.

 :-\

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2011, 02:10:14 AM »
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Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #71 on: January 21, 2011, 06:48:51 AM »
marco, so it is you.

 :-\

Who said it wasn't me and what does it matter ??
You now have Grumpy, and Lawrence the Clown, the nutty professor, those 3 can amuse you for the rest of your life... so what are you doing here?

Offline poynt99

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #72 on: January 21, 2011, 06:50:59 AM »
Who said it wasn't me and what does it matter ??
You now have Grumpy, and Lawrence the Clown, the nutty professor, those two can amuse you for the rest of your life... so what are you doing here?

marco, the only important question is this: Why are you so darn bitter?

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #73 on: January 21, 2011, 06:56:48 AM »
marco, the only important question is this: Why are you so darn bitter?

I recently quit smoking.
HAHAHA  ;D

Why do i need to answer yours if you do not answer mine?
I'm only so towards certain people if that tells anything at all....

Offline poynt99

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #74 on: January 21, 2011, 07:10:26 AM »
I recently quit smoking.
HAHAHA  ;D

Why do i need to answer yours if you do not answer mine?
I'm only so towards certain people if that tells anything at all....

Good for you on the quitting smoking ;)

Well, I'm one of the few that took an interest in your Correa work, and I've always commended you on all your works. You were banned form OUR, but you had no real interest in being there anyway, that was obvious. So you can't blame me for that, it was your own doing. Then you came back as "microcontroller", and I did not ban you. I have nothing at all against you, and I think you know that. We've had good chats etc.

Perhaps all that might tell you something...

It ought to be fairly obvious, but I'm here because I want to be, and because I feel I can contribute in a positive way and benefit from postings here and there. I still get a certain gratification from helping out where I am able, and that's yet another reason.

Why are you so darn bitter towards me then?

 

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