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Author Topic: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage  (Read 80193 times)

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2010, 07:34:46 PM »
the circuit board isn't exactly the same but it should work because i understand what it should do.
it only has a different layout.

i know there is no special battery set for recovery.
there are more wires on the battery's and these were probably used to recharge and monitor the voltage.
one more on the first battery to go to a 5 Volts regulator to power the controlling logic.

this center tap configuration is typical for an inverter setup that boosts the voltage up to several Kv's.
therefore the transformer also must have a center tap.
the center tap of the transformer is connected straight to the battery's fat negative wire.
by high speed switching the positive poles to the outer 2 connections of the transformer the high voltage inverter charges up the high voltage capacitors after being rectified by the graetz bridges.
in the image below you can see an example of how two mosfets are used to switch the negative sides of the transformer in this case the center tap is connected to the positive line so these are NPN mosfets.
If my findings are correct Gray was switching the positive line so he has to have used PNP mosfets.

the logic Gray used is also typical for this application.
he used SG3526J and SG1627J high speed switching.
it is not hard to redesign this setup it's a piece of cake  :)




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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2010, 07:34:46 PM »

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2010, 07:35:53 PM »
When you look at the picture with the ic's you can see Gray's writing it say's TP TP TP which stands for Totem Pole configuration.  :)

EDIT:
Made a quick drawing for you to see what i mean.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 08:30:47 PM by XS-NRG »

Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2010, 12:02:46 AM »
the circuit board isn't exactly the same but it should work because i understand what it should do.
it only has a different layout.

i know there is no special battery set for recovery.
there are more wires on the battery's and these were probably used to recharge and monitor the voltage.
one more on the first battery to go to a 5 Volts regulator to power the controlling logic.

this center tap configuration is typical for an inverter setup that boosts the voltage up to several Kv's.
therefore the transformer also must have a center tap.
the center tap of the transformer is connected straight to the battery's fat negative wire.
by high speed switching the positive poles to the outer 2 connections of the transformer the high voltage inverter charges up the high voltage capacitors after being rectified by the graetz bridges.
in the image below you can see an example of how two mosfets are used to switch the negative sides of the transformer in this case the center tap is connected to the positive line so these are NPN mosfets.
If my findings are correct Gray was switching the positive line so he has to have used PNP mosfets.

the logic Gray used is also typical for this application.
he used SG3526J and SG1627J high speed switching.
it is not hard to redesign this setup it's a piece of cake  :)
So the MOSFETs are in the red case.  How do you get 165V on the center tap?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2010, 12:02:46 AM »
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Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2010, 12:28:00 AM »
no it was just an example  :) no 165 volt
in Gray's setup the negative wire is connected to the center tap or he used a black wire for the positive pole  :-\.
i'm not sure which year he build this motor so i do not know if there were mosfets available at the time.
i did see some old early transistors.

EDIT:

Here you see the block diagram SG3526 and it is consistent with the board made by Gray.
The output stage is there and i think it does not differ too much from a classic RPWM circuit.
These days it's alot easier because we can use programmable hardware so like i said piece of cake.  :)

« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 01:04:14 AM by XS-NRG »

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2010, 01:10:39 AM »
So the MOSFETs are in the red case. 

You can see the transformer wiring go into the red case so that is probably correct.  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #34 on: October 29, 2010, 01:10:39 AM »
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Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #35 on: October 29, 2010, 03:13:09 AM »
I agree that the complexity of both sides of that blue board indicates it probably isn't using the simplistic logic circuits we have today.  But this also points out the magnitude of the accomplishment.

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2010, 06:51:01 PM »
it certainly does.

i myself have also worked alot with early TTL and CMOS circuits just like the ones gray used and i know what it is like.
today we can simply (re)program the chip and make it do whatever we want. :)

ive started to rebuild the high voltage inverter with microchips and after that i'm going to discharge 6Kv in a cross gap with what Gray called conversion grids
let's see what this puppy can do. :)

by the way i'm starting to think that Gray needed a commutator to switch his CSET's.
so i guess he build a small motor/commutator to switch the tubes at first and then i think he must have decided that the motor could also drive things and scaled it up.

this means the motor is more important for it's switching, then for the HP's it puts out  :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #36 on: October 29, 2010, 06:51:01 PM »
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Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #37 on: October 29, 2010, 10:29:32 PM »
Ghst, over at EF, came up with a very practical way of discharging the arc across the ends of the grids, although he actually only used one grid.  I encouraged him to add more grids, with the proto board going to the center, but he's offline now so I don't know what progress he's made.  (His grid was actually centered on the proto board, as I understood it.)  He found that the close spaced holes in a proto board act as a multi gap capacitor, since there's a solder ring on both sides of the board.  Looking at Gray's CSETs in the EMA-6 picture, his grids are spaced close enough to also produce this effect, with the HV spark coming in on the right side and the output going to the capacitor's resistor at the bottom.  The epoxy acts as a dielectric to localize the sparks.  I'm sure he won't mind me posting his circuit since he did Open Source it.

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2010, 11:34:39 PM »
thats not what i have in mind  :)
i will document the experiment so you can see it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2010, 11:34:39 PM »
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Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 04:58:59 PM »
Looking at some of my own batteries, the negative post is always on the right when the vents are at the back.  This means the battery polarity shown in reply #31 is correct.  The heavy black cable is negative.  And this may resolve the issue of diode polarity.  The polarity Gray shows in the patent is consistent with these latest pictures, so John Bedini's diagram is not correct.  Gray always shows the cathode of the "one way energy path" pointing at the positive side of the battery, which is what these pictures show with the negative cable connected to the anode.

Still, the black cable going to the anode of one bank of ignitrons is not a conventional wiring.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 06:02:14 PM by Jerry Volland »

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 06:26:00 PM »
you mean the colors?  :)
yea i already noticed Gray used his own colors but it's ok.
as long as i can see where it goes i can understand it.
also it might look like thick wire but it can also be silicon high voltage wire used for neon signs +/- 8 Kv or for inginition systems 35Kv.
That's mostly insulation the wire itself is at the centre and isn't too thick.
I'm still working on the software.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 06:26:00 PM »
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Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2010, 03:28:26 AM »
I'm still working on the software.
I'm looking forward to your results.

I've also been busy.  It's occurred to me that it's quite likely the key effect with the battery can also be produced with the core tube from a magnetron.  I've got quite a few of these on hand so I'm setting up some more experiments along this line.

Offline XS-NRG

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2010, 06:49:51 PM »
well it never hurts to try but don't fry yourself  :)
Gray's thing was said to be running at about 5Khz but those magnetrons are designed to work in the low Ghz range so i dunno about that.
and they are not realy frequency adjustable like using a trigger or so.

Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2010, 09:48:39 PM »
well it never hurts to try but don't fry yourself  :)
Gray's thing was said to be running at about 5Khz but those magnetrons are designed to work in the low Ghz range so i dunno about that.
and they are not realy frequency adjustable like using a trigger or so.
Don't worry, I have a healthy respect for electricity and always look out for safety first.

I'm really not sure what frequency Gray was using.  Various people have said 5 or 6 kHz, but the only actual Gray document I've seen stated 200,000 pulses per minute, which is about 3.3 kHz.  Magnetrons can be triggered in the kilohertz range - see patent #2748198 - as long as you still use the magnets, which I won't.  Gray also mentioned single pulses and that's what I'm looking at for now.

Online Jerry Volland

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Re: Complete EV Gray Motor Found In Storage
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2010, 07:15:07 PM »
I did some basic tests with the magnetron tube and got mixed results.  With a heated filament the tube will pass a HV spark in either direction.  But a capacitor will only discharge in one direction.  Even then it makes an arc rather than a spark.

 

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