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Author Topic: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR  (Read 387765 times)

kEhYo77

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #240 on: June 24, 2012, 09:16:39 PM »

 @ Anyone interested in playing with this, here is a little bit of ArduinoUNO code for my Coil Shorting Module to do its thing.
 One just needs to hook up 4 pots to analog input pins 1-4; pin 10 is the output to the CSM; pin 2,5 input from zero crossing detector (from Schmitt trigger)
 
Quote
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// COIL SHORTING v1.0 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// by kEhYo77@gmail.com ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
 const int plsPin = 5;                                                  // dedicated pin for using hardware counter to measure triggering frequency
 const int csmPin = 10;                                               // signal pin output to control COIL SHORTING MODULE (CSM)
 const int int0Pin = 2;                                                // dedicated pin for using hardware interrupt 0
 const int delayPot = 1;                                              // potentiometer for setting the delay period before the shorting starts to occure
 const int countPot = 2;                                              // potentiometer for setting the number of shorting pulses per trigger event
 const int pulsePot = 3;                                              // potentiometer for setting the pulse width of shorting event
 const int bemfPot = 4;                                               // potentiometer for setting the period to collect BEMF from the shorting event
 
 unsigned int count;
 unsigned int shtDelay = 0;                                       // time window delaying shorting sequence after zero crossing detection trigger
 unsigned int shtPulse = 0;                                       // time window for coil shorting pulse width
 unsigned int shtBEMF = 0;                                       // time window for BEMF recovery from shorting the coil
 unsigned int shtCount = 0;                                       // number of shorting events per trigger
 unsigned int frequency = 0;                                      // zero crossing detector triggering frequency from the hardware counter
 unsigned int val = 0;                                                 // temp storage for value
 unsigned int pot = 0;                                                // temp storage for pot value
 volatile boolean pulseON = false;                            // variable that can be changed from within the interrupt function
 
 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// INITIALISATION ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
 void setup() {
   pinMode(csmPin, OUTPUT);                                   // preparing output pin for coil shorting module ON/OFF control
   digitalWrite(csmPin, LOW);                                   // CSM is OFF which means that the coil has 'OPEN' ends
   pinMode(plsPin, INPUT);                                       // preparing the pin for input
   digitalWrite(plsPin, HIGH);                                    // hardware counter setup for counting input pulses
   pinMode(int0Pin, INPUT);                                      // preparing the pin for input to trigger hardware interrupt 0
   
   bitClear(ADCSRA,ADPS0);                                     //  \
   bitClear(ADCSRA,ADPS1);                                    //   } running analog pot inputs with higher than normal speed clock (set prescale to 16)
   bitSet(ADCSRA,ADPS2);                                       //  /
   
   TCCR1A=0;                                                          // reset timer/counter control register & starting the clock counting pulses from pin 5 input
   getCount();                                                         // getting the value from the hardware trigger counter on pin 5
   
   attachInterrupt(0, trigger, RISING);                    // enables INT0 interrupt on Pin 2 input to execute CSM turn ON/OFF cycle
   
   Serial.begin(115200);                                         // send and receive through USB serial port at 9600 baud rate
 
 
 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// MAIN  LOOP //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
 void loop() {
   
   if (millis()%1000==0) {                                              // executed when a real time clock reaches full second (every second)
   
     frequency = getCount();                                              // triggering frequency readout from the hardware counter
   
     pot = analogRead(delayPot)/2;                                              // setting the delay time window of the coil shorting event
     if (pot==0 && shtDelay!=0) shtDelay=0;
     shtDelay = pot;
     
     pot = analogRead(countPot)/128;                                              // setting the pulse width of a coil shorting event
     if (pot==0 && shtCount!=0) shtCount=0;
     shtCount = pot;
   
     pot = analogRead(pulsePot)/64;                                              // setting the pulse width of a coil shorting event
     if (pot==0 && shtPulse!=0) shtPulse=0;
     shtPulse = pot;
     
     pot = analogRead(bemfPot)/32;                                              // setting the time window for BEMF recovery
     if (pot==0 && shtBEMF!=0) shtBEMF=0;
     shtBEMF = pot;
   }
     
   if (millis()%3000==0) { // executed every 3 seconds
     
     Serial.print("pulseCOUNT: ");
     Serial.println(shtCount);                                              // prints the shorting pulse count in serial monitor
     Serial.print("pulseWIDTH: ");
     Serial.println(shtPulse);                                              // prints the shorting pulse width
     Serial.print("windowBEMF: ");
     Serial.println(shtBEMF);                                              // prints the shorting pulse width for BEMF recovery
     Serial.print("tFREQUENCY: ");
     Serial.println(frequency);                                              // prints the triggering frequency
     Serial.println("");
   }
   
  //---------------------------------------------- executed X times whenever there was a trigger event ----------------------------------------------//
 
 
   if (shtPulse!=0 && shtBEMF!=0 && shtCount!=0 && pulseON) {    // do the shorting when every pot's value is bigger than 0 and trere was a trigger event
 
 
     for (int k=0; k<=shtDelay; k++){                                                      // time delay before the shorting event
       val = analogRead(0);                                                                        // 'blank' readout that takes 'some' time to execute
     }
 
     for (int j=1; j<=shtCount; j++){                                                         // do the shorting X times
        for (int i=0; i<=10; i++){                                                                 // do the coil shorting, output goes HIGH
           bitSet(PORTB, csmPin -8);                                                         // the quickest way to turn the output pin HIGH
             for (int x=0; x<=shtPulse; x++) {
             val = analogRead(0);                                                                  // 'blank' readout that takes 'some' time to execute
             }
           bitClear(PORTB, csmPin -8);                                                      // output goes LOW for a period of BEMF recovery value
             for (int x=0; x<=shtBEMF; x++) {
             val = analogRead(0);
             }
         }
     }
     pulseON = false;                                                        // ends shorting sequence, resets the trigger variable
   }
 
 }
 
 ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// End of the MAIN LOOP /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 
 
 void trigger() {                                              // function executed at trigger event
   pulseON = true;
 }
 
 
 unsigned long getCount()  {                                              // returns the current count of pulses from pin 5, resets the count, and starts counting again 
   TCCR1B = 0;                                                           // Gate Off / Counter Tn stopped
   count = TCNT1;
   TCNT1 = 0;
   bitSet(TCCR1B ,CS12);                                           // Counter Clock source is external pin
   bitSet(TCCR1B ,CS11);                                          // Clock on rising edge
   bitSet(TCCR1B ,CS10);                                          // you can clear this bit for falling edge
   return count;
 }
 

WilbyInebriated

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #241 on: June 25, 2012, 01:42:21 AM »
You moron, I don't know jack shit about dynos but I have read by comments by people that I believe to be credible.
you mental midget... if you don't know jack shit about dynos (by your own admission) then there is no way for you to know if someone is "credible" when they speak of dynos... ::)  again, tu  stultus es!

Let Ismael prove that the chassis dyno can be used.
NO. YOU are the uneducated dolt saying it can't be used... YOU PROVE YOUR CLAIM... the burden is not on ismael over the dyno, it is on you.

Do you believe that the test done at the Filipino DOT was legit and credible Wil-beast?
what i "believe" is none of your business you troll...

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #242 on: June 25, 2012, 02:18:35 AM »
I stand by what I said and you can kiss my ass if you don't like it you slimy bitch.  You go to back to the cesspool Wil-beast you grotesque burping and farting little Chet-monster.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfggccwQrcY

Making you unhappy makes grovelling snotty little Wil-beast happy.

konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #243 on: June 25, 2012, 07:54:16 AM »
hey Mile too-high
The DOE lab doesnt rely on instinct to do measurements of input power in HP and watts at the wheels in Ismaels car.   

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #244 on: June 25, 2012, 08:06:09 AM »
Konehead:

How much do you know about dynos?

More importantly, this is now the third time I am asking you about the input energy or the average input power measurement.  What is your response?

MileHigh

konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #245 on: June 25, 2012, 08:19:57 AM »
hi KeHyo77
this is very interesting coil-shorting thing you have - have you got it going?? any test results yet??
AS far as I know, Ismaels causes the coils to ring first, in oscillations, with a single very quick coil-short at sinewave peak, using very low resistance bank of paralell HV mosfets...
Mabye he has them in bidirectional- mode (gates and source leads connect so that they swtihc AC) not sure if he does this for sure, but if not he should be....
Then after the oscillation-rings happen form that initial quick coil short, he then shorts the PEAKS OF THE OSCILLATIONS THEMSELVES.....so the ringing now doesn "decay" instead in increases expontnetionally... He told me when I was in Sweden with him, that he shorts 5 times at peaks in his coil-blaster stuff (he didnt have the MEG then)
Ismael told me recently that caps must discharge to be at ZERO volts....they cant have any "polarity" (?)  or differnt resistance other than what the caps are at zero-volts, or he says that the system wont collect the ambeint-energy (for some reason) ... he says this makes it difficult and tricky  to tune/design the system for particular loads and frequency of output-pulsing etc etc...anyways dopnt know if this infor will help or hinder you, but its what he told me.
Also I am wondering if your coil-shorting circuit has a two-stage output to it?? or is it jsut fill up caps at this stage??
I am working on a "diode-plug" type output for my coil shorting generators....so instead of a FWBR captureing the HV rings into caps, with four diodes, instead I want to do it with single diode into capA and another single diode faciing opposite into capB...then caps A and cap B hit load in alternating fashion....reason this is good is whtn you do two-stage type circuit and you have to disconnect coils from caps when caps hit load, at that time, the coils arent filling up so you lose power-to-be-gathering into caps, during the time the cpas discharge. so its not as effecient as didoe-plug, plus might cause some EMF or some crazy problems of disocnnecting circuit filling caps suddenly too....
with diode-plug type cirucit a cap is always filling either from pos peak shoritng or neg peak being shorted so you could say its 100% effecienct in collecting pwoer into caps, even at cap discharge-event too.
also I did a bunch of testing and to make it totally non reflecitve in extra draw to primary/prmime mover, you need "ratio" of pulse with of .5ms to coil shrot if 60hz sinewave as example...so if 120hz , .25ms sinewave etc etc....on shorting the peaks of the ringings, I dont know what that would be yet - havent got that far but it must be very short time period...
 
also I have a circuit Ron P in canada came up with that finds peaks, adjsutst for peak-capture period (pulse width) then chops up this capture period during peak too - then this can trigger mosfets...maybe you cna imcorporate this into your circuit I dont know - but this is how I would "imitate" Ismael's trick of shorting the peaks of the ringing....
 
 

konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #246 on: June 25, 2012, 08:37:46 AM »
mile too-high
my response to you is you are wasting everyones time here including your own posting trash calling people childish names.
If  I was the moderator in this thread, I would ban you from posting after your last post calling someone a fart-monster or whatever it was...that was really stupid childish and lame.
So read up on Ismaels stuff and study it if you want to criticize constructively....so far you havent done that and you are only being an "opinionted-obvserver" right now with no knowledge whatsoever of what you are talking about.
if you want to read up on dyno-testing wheels of a car for HP, look it up on wikipedia etc and google it dont ask me to asnwer your questions on stuff you know nothing about use a search engine for yourself.
If you want to prove that the filipino DOE messed up the HP tests of Ismaels car, write to them ask what machine it was, what the settings were and all that....burden of proof is on you.
Ismael already "proved it" taking it to that lab....he is first person in world to get a goevernment lab and engineers to actually say officially something is "overunity"...and this is a amp-hog forkdlift motor too (pwoered by MEG) , power was measured at wheels, which is lots of loss byt the time the rubber meets the rollers in the machine, and the car was powered by single fairly small 12V battery too....easy to do input - its ammeter on battery seeing how fast it drains in amps.
 
 

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #247 on: June 25, 2012, 09:17:00 AM »
Konehead:

So you refuse to answer the question about the input energy or average input power.  In my opinion you can't do it.  Nor do I believe that Ismael can.  The reason I asked you about your knowledge of dynos is because in earlier postings you made definitive pronouncements that the results were legitimate.  I am assuming that you are just like me, and you don't know one way or the other.  Therefore you earlier statements are invalid.

Without an input power measurement any claims of over unity, like Ismael stated that he got 3X output over input, are bogus.

These questions are real and they are not wasting anybody's time.  All readers to this site that hear about allegations of an electronic circuit producing over unity are by definition interested in the input and output power measurements.  That's what this site is all about and just "pretending" that you can ignore doing the difficult input power measurements and then only making the easy output power measurements and then proclaiming over unity is not going to cut it.  If you are serious about your research then then you have to make both measurements.

I have a pretty good knowledge of Ismael and I am aware of what he has been doing for a while.  You look at that DOT test, can you imagine what some of the pitfalls and problems could have been?  Both the input and the output power measurements are highly suspect.  Where is the vehicle right now?  What happened to the million charging stations by the end of 2011?

The burden of proof is on Ismael - extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.  All we saw were some bewildered Filipino DOT employees have an incredibly low-power electric car roll into their DOT test station built to measure the miles per gallon and the exhaust emissions for normal gas-powered vehicles with normal output power levels.  Most of them stood by while Ismael's team set things up.  There was no credible documentation for the input power measurement and the dyno simply wasn't designed to measure that low an output power level.  That is a reasonable assumption.  I am just telling you what I saw.

MileHigh

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #248 on: June 25, 2012, 09:40:45 AM »
Konehead:

I am sure that you are aware that Wilby has a notorious reputation for harassing and intimidating people.  Hence the reply.

MileHigh

kEhYo77

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #249 on: June 25, 2012, 08:19:33 PM »
Quote
Ismael told me recently that caps must discharge to be at ZERO volts....they cant have any "polarity" (?)  or differnt resistance other than what the caps are at zero-volts, or he says that the system wont collect the ambeint-energy (for some reason) ... 


Some good info here, thanks konehead.
My schematic is preliminary and I already knew that I have to short the BEMF oscillations themselves. And yes, I've been thinking about two stage output as well.
I didn't want the to make the schematic too complicated so it is not there yet.
Electronic diode plug sounds interesting, I will be checking out this idea for sure.
 
I am familiar with the circuit for shorting as I have built it. What I found is that in the end stage the oscillator doesn't do what I wanted,
so I replaced it with 555+393 for more accurate control of shorting. My Arduino code does the same thing as that modified circuit.


konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #250 on: June 25, 2012, 08:58:54 PM »
hey Mile too-high
I did tell you what  the INPUT to Ismaels car is.
It runs on single 12V battery, that is its only source of power. you should know this if you studied up on it, and you should know the draw from the battery is the obvious answer to what the input is.
wnen something is overunity you can look at it as there is "no" source of power, (where does it come from ambient?) 
but in case of this electic car he has single 12V battery or it wont work at all so it "runs" on that.
so obviously you would measure the amp draw from it,
or the drop in charge over time with hydrometer,
or how long it can run the car befroe it goes dead, and figure the watts-consumed knowing the amp-hour rating of the battery,
all this like you would do with anything running off a 12V battery...take your pick which way they will all come out the same in watts comsumed from battery.
His MEG is a capacitive-discharge unit too, so I even gave you the formula to figure WATTS form that too,
so I gave you two methods of measuring input, either from the "source" (the battery) or the input "out" of the MEG whihc goes INTO  the forklift motor.
So I answered your quesiton TWICE and now  have answered it again in more detail.
Hope you are happy now but doubt it - you do not understand Ismaels MEG system pworeing his car, and you will have to really study alot on it and do some experiemtns of your own on peak coil shorting before you do. 
If you did expeiments with coil-shoritn at peaks you will see you get 3time more power and it doesnt reflect back to source too, when this power is made soits an overunity method of extracing poer from energized coils simnple as that. Ismael has expanded upon it, make it high frequency and high voltage and its very amazing what he has done.
I have talked peresonally on phone with Ismael alot about this DOE test before it and after it, and know how long it took him for them to get into the lab, (about a year) and that he had to meet with all engineers before hand and make them fully understand his system, (took a full day) and I also talked to him alot on the input measurements, and gave that same formula to Ismel to double check with what the cap-discharge is too in watts.
I dont think for a second that they did a bad job in the testing of it - they are govenment DOE lab and they dont put out bogus and inaccurate measuremnts. If they did they would all be fired.
Those dynometers are incremental in there meausrments of things and can do motorcycles and small stuff like three wheel meter-maid use would use I am sure...if they could NOT measure accurate, the DOE would of SAID SO....they arent "working" for Ismael...they are engineers and test stuff legitimate.
the power that his MEG puts out is way more than 133% eff too - there is so much mechanical and rotational loss in that electical car with forklfit  motor it gets "watered down" to only 133% effecient.
 

konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #251 on: June 25, 2012, 09:34:02 PM »
Hi Keh077
jsut to elaborate on the zero-volts thing, it has to do with fact that as capacitors fill up, the resistance in them changes as they fill plus fact the polariztion of cap changes resitacne form non-polarized state too.
when they discharge, the reistance in them changes too of course too...but Ismeal needs to take that voltage all the way down to zero upon a discharge-event.
Ismaels systems are all VERY resonate-condition based, so if resistance jsut changes a small bit, the whole thing goes out of whack easy and this control of cap resistance is very important...and is one reaosn fro "why" the zero volts the caps must be at or they dont fill up as they should.
also it has to do with fact as soon as you have any voltage in cap, now the cap is polarized to be one way (he is filling and discharginn DC caps in MEG as far as I know) and if cap is at zero volts there is "no polarity" to it...not sure exaclty about this but that is general idea I got from him talking on phone with him a few months back....
this all relates to filling up capacitors UNLOADED as you must do, when doing coil-shorting at peaks - you know that if you have any resitance across those caps that fill from the coil-shoritng it snubs away all the HV ringing that happens from the coil-shaort at peak and you get NOTHING happening out of ordinary of filling up cap from induced or energized coils.......this is also why solid state relays, SCRs and transisitors will not work AT ALL doing coil shorting - their resistance is too high, and it snubs it all away, and you get that NOTHING....I could only do coil-shorting with reed swtiches or mechanical brush-commutators for years,  ( Idisconevere id in 2006 with reed swtihces on Mullegenraror coils jsut folling around)
It wasnt unt until Ismael told me a couple years ago to use paralell HV mosfets and it is the high resistance in my SSRs that was killing everything in my feeble attempts,. so after I wnet to paralell HV mosfets, it  now worked perfectly solid state....
anyways what I am getting at is the that "collector"cap's resistance-value is very touchy and sensitive - probably especially when you get into shorting at the peaks of the ringing (!)
and so that is why the must-be-zero volts....and the polarity of the cap being "set up" one way in polarity probably also changes the reistance value of cap very drastically compared to the "zero-votlage" state of a DC cap is my theory on it all, even if it is jsut one or two or even a half-volt volts in cap ...it now will sort of put cap into a polarized-mode, and that polarized-mode has changed resistance drastically as compared to zero-volts non-polarized state (even if DC cap) anyways this is my take and understanding from info Ismael gave me.....could be something else altogether but somethign to chew on at least.
 
On other thing, are thos IGBTs inyour circuit "bidirectional? Isee the ources are connected, but are the gates? I see diodes there...not sure...also could you try out two single didoes facing opposite for purpose filling two sperate DC caps (one from pos phase one form neg phase like diode plug)...this instead of the FWBR you have?
this iswhere I am going next few dasy or this week as I want to do diode-plug output instead of two stage ouptut where "eveything" disconnects whiel cpas output as explained afew posts back......not sure if its going to work or not like FWBR does butit should - it would be good to get 2nd opinion (like my psychiatrisst told me I was crazy so I went to my regular doctor for 2nd opinion and he told me I was ugly too) ha

forest

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #252 on: June 25, 2012, 10:21:52 PM »
I'd like to ask here something which is important to me but may look a bit offtopic. Is that discharge of capacitor using parallel fet's unidirectional ? Or maybe diferrent question : is it possible without using diodes to have unidirectional discharge from capacitor using FETs or IGBT ?

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #253 on: June 25, 2012, 10:42:39 PM »
Konehead:

Quote
I did tell you what  the INPUT to Ismaels car is.

I am not talking about that input measurement.  Ismael's car only came up later in the conversation.

Just to deal with that issue, the average current at 12 volts to make 300 watts would be 25 amps.  We have no information on the architecture of the electrical/mechanical power system in the car.  The load on the battery would certainly not look like a purely resistive load and that means that the current would pulse be pulsing.  If 25 amps is the average current then the pulsing current might have peaks of 50 or 75 amps.  High current peaks would cause the battery voltage to drop.

With high amperage current pulses and a non-constant battery voltage that would be a challenge to measure properly.  The real way to make the measurement would be with a digital storage oscilloscope.  There was no sign of a DSO in the clips.  Ismael made no mention of how he made the measurement for the battery output power - which is the input power to the car.  We also know that a digital multimeter can get "scrambled brains" sometimes when trying to make current measurements when the current waveform is pulsing.

So with no explanation or documentation from Ismael on how he made the battery power measurements I have very little confidence that a good measurement was made.  At the same time the people in the DOT lab had no experience or understanding on how to measure the electrical power consumption of an electrical car.  They clearly were not equipped to do that and let Ismael's team make that measurement.

If Ismael had presented clear data and explained exactly how he made the power measurement for the battery it would be a different story.  Unfortunately we have no information at all.  The only thing we have is a claim that the draw on the battery was 300 watts.

These issues cannot simply be avoided or swept under the carpet.  If you are going to make a claim that you have an over unity electric car then you have to present credible data to back it up.

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #254 on: June 25, 2012, 11:09:55 PM »
Konehead:

Now let me go back to the real discussion:

Kehyo77 posted a clip by Ismael where he sketches a magnet passing by a coil, you short out the coil, then collect the energy in a capacitor with an FWBR.

It's in that clip where he claimed that you can get a three-fold increase in the energy out (or the average power out) as compared to the energy in (or the average power in.)

That's where I stated that Ismael has to show input and output measurements to back up his claim.  If he is a serious researcher, he should already know ahead of time that that is what he has to do.

Then you showed a somewhat similar circuit but you made no specific claims.  But the same concept applies - if your circuit is going to be useful then you have to make input and output measurements on it too.  The challenging measurement is the input measurement.  Even measuring the average power output from the charging capacitors gets a bit tricky as the frequency of operation of the device gets higher.  Hence the same question was directed at you since you posted your schematic diagram.

Again, Ismael made a simplified sketch of a cap pulser circuit that is driven by magnets moving past a pick-up coil and claimed that this circuit outputs three times more energy or average power than you put into the circuit.

If Ismael wants to convince me or anybody else that this is actually true then he has to make properly documented input and output measurements.  You have to do both measurements and show your methodology and your data.

You posted a circuit that is similar in concept to Ismael's circuit so I am suggesting the same request for your setup.

Any statements about how high the voltage you can charge the output caps to and the value of the capacitors is meaningless without a corresponding input power measurement.

So that's what I was asking Ismael and by extension I am asking you too.

MileHigh