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Author Topic: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR  (Read 293324 times)

Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #270 on: June 26, 2012, 08:27:28 PM »
I am trying to ignore mr too high but you are so irritating.
there is no reason people should "sign theri names" to the attest to the validity of the DOE document. Is there a section that says all engineers sign here? (NO)
did these people REFUSE to sign it?  (NO) ...
again YOU MAKE THINGS UP
sure it is preliminary thats what all tests are called first time you do them.
because they are prelimantry doesnt mean they are therefore false but AGAIN YOU MAKE THINGS UP
there is nothign worng with putting AC meter on wall and measurieng power from wall into FWBR, DC filtering caps and use that in "replacement" of DC battery as the power supply...this will tell you the input in watts no problem really and it can be double-checked using the thre ways I gave too.
I built electric car with 36V of golf cart batteisand forklift moto (old fiat spyder) draw at slow speed to 20 mph from stop on level ground is between 50A to 100A...so 1800 to 3600watts consumed
Ismael is runnign on only 300W so he obviously has something good going on and is not faking it either and netiher are or will the DOE lab guys  (but you are one faking it)
 
 
 

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #270 on: June 26, 2012, 08:27:28 PM »

Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #271 on: June 26, 2012, 09:04:41 PM »
hey mile way too high all the time:
I am glad you resent me for calling you what you are...thats how resentments foster; from people telling you the truth about yourself you dont want to beleive is the truth.
What IS true is you make up a lot of stuff that is not true - not exactly a classical liar, more like a delusional blockhead,
I am going to TRY again to ignore you, unless you get on the ball and can come up with some more really good  insults again,  against my friend Ismael, (calling him un-credible) or try and drag me down to your level of ignorance with your oponnioated no-fact observations.

If you want to discuss the no-lenz coil-shorting techniques and testing, go over to the RomeroUK-Muller thread and read up for a few hours, and I will not reply to you there, instead of not replying to you here.
I am open source, so you get same benefits from my research as do  people I actually like personally, respect, and consider intelligent.
 
 
 
 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #272 on: June 27, 2012, 12:53:16 AM »
Konehead:

Quote
I built electric car with 36V of golf cart batteisand forklift moto (old fiat spyder) draw at slow speed to 20 mph from stop on level ground is between 50A to 100A...so 1800 to 3600watts consumed
Ismael is runnign on only 300W so he obviously has something good going on and is not faking it either and netiher are or will the DOE lab guys  (but you are one faking it)

I am not faking anything and I wish you would stop that please.

Ismael ran on 300 watts and as a result of that the buggy motor had almost no torque whereas your golf cart has torque because of the higher power.  As it says in the report they ran into trouble trying to go up a very small incline.  It appears that what might have happened is the buggy slowed down and the reduced RPM of the motor created less CEMF.  With less CEMF the current draw started to go up and the power electronics in the buggy started to fry.

Quote
I am glad you resent me for calling you what you are...thats how resentments foster; from people telling you the truth about yourself you dont want to beleive is the truth.
What IS true is you make up a lot of stuff that is not true - not exactly a classical liar, more like a delusional blockhead

That's just a lot of hot air.  I have been around for a fair amount of time now so people know me and they know that your characterization is silly and not true.  You are simply over agitated - take a chill pill.

Quote
If you want to discuss the no-lenz coil-shorting techniques and testing, go over to the RomeroUK-Muller thread and read up for a few hours, and I will not reply to you there, instead of not replying to you here.

If you believe that you can shorten your shorting pulse and then at a certain "magic" short pulse length you can fill up your collector caps without putting a mechanical load on the rotor then I have a proposed test for you.  Just think about this logically:  You know with longer pulses you fill up the collector caps and you can measure a drag on the rotor.  Then you notice that with shorter pulses you fill up the collector caps more slowly and still see a drag.  Then with an even shorter pulse you fill up the collector caps even more slowly and don't see any more drag.  That doesn't make sense - just the fact that the collector caps are still charging is telling you that there is still a drag on the rotor.

Here is the suggested experiment:  Assume that you have an electric motor driving a rotor and the rotor powers the pick-up coils/shorting/cap pulser setup.  Also assume that you have a fully synchronized cap dump system that dumps them every time there is a pulse.  Without the synchronized cap dump system the test will not work.  Because the charging pules are very small, you could also do a synchronized cap dump every 64 or 128 pulses, or perhaps when the collector caps meet a certain threshold voltage, your choice.

You measure the current draw on the drive motor with a current sensing resistor and you also measure the RPM.  You put an RC low-pass filter setup across the current sensing resistor and connect your multimeter to the capacitor.

Now, you know how Gotoluc has a precision digital multimeter that has six digits of precision after the decimal place?  You connect Gotoluc's multimeter across the capacitor, and then make two measurements:  (1) The filtered voltage across the capacitor when the drive motor is powering the setup without any coil shorting (i.e.; no mechanical load on the rotor).  (2)  The filtered voltage across the capacitor when the drive motor is powering the setup with your minimum shorting pulse setup, the one that you believe does not put a load on the rotor but still charges the energy collecting capacitors.

When you switch from (1) to (2) you should see the capacitor voltage slowly climb over a few seconds and then stabilize at a higher value.  That's telling you that the current draw of the motor went up a tiny fraction because the load on the drive motor went up a tiny fraction.  The increased load is due to the pick-up coils causing a tiny amount of Lenz drag on the rotor magnets because of your very short coil shorting pulses.  The filtered average voltage across the current sensing resistor might only go up a few hundred micro-volts.  That would be proof that your minimum shorting pulse technique still adds a load to the rotor.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #272 on: June 27, 2012, 12:53:16 AM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #273 on: June 27, 2012, 07:06:44 PM »
mile way too high all the time
I am not even looking at your posts anymore (100% IGNORE MODE) so save your breath for when YOU do some EXPERIMENTS YOURSELF, and you can have the experience of replying to dumb-ass ignorant critiscm from other people who like to shoot in the dark at whatever ridiculous scenario comes to mind (like you)
other option is to change your handle, writing style, and brain function (plus new attitude),  and return as whole other person and then I will reply then,  since I wouldnt know it was you.
 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #274 on: June 27, 2012, 07:59:00 PM »
Konehead:

Quote
mile way too high all the time
I am not even looking at your posts anymore (100% IGNORE MODE) so save your breath for when YOU do some EXPERIMENTS YOURSELF, and you can have the experience of replying to dumb-ass ignorant critiscm from other people who like to shoot in the dark at whatever ridiculous scenario comes to mind (like you)
other option is to change your handle, writing style, and brain function (plus new attitude),  and return as whole other person and then I will reply then,  since I wouldnt know it was you.

That is a truly pathetic reply.  I give you a suggestion for a serious test and all that can come up with is that?  What I said to you above was REAL.  Why can't you discuss like a normal person?

You never answered the question about power input vs. power output for your pick-up coil/shorting/cap pulser circuit.  I asked you at least three times.  Based on your lack of response so far I don't believe you have ever made the measurements nor do I believe that you are capable of making the measurements.  It's up to you to prove otherwise.

Just so there is no confusion:  We are talking about mechanical energy or average mechanical power in (the magnets passing the pick-up coils) and comparing that to electrical energy or average electrical power out (discharging the collector caps.)

You can talk the talk all you want about coil shorting and timings and what caps you use to collect the energy - but without making the mechanical input measurement all of that talk is useless.

So, since this is your pet project, have you measured the input and the output for one of your systems?  If yes, how did you do it?

Don't go crying to Stephan again like a baby because I asked you some serious legitimate questions.  If you really think your coil shorting system has merit then prove it by showing your measurements for input and output.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #274 on: June 27, 2012, 07:59:00 PM »
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Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #275 on: June 27, 2012, 08:11:49 PM »
Hey mile too high
I am ignoring you and will not answer.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #276 on: June 27, 2012, 08:16:47 PM »
My ass you are ignoring me.  As far as I am concerned you won't answer simply because you can't answer.

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #276 on: June 27, 2012, 08:16:47 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #277 on: June 27, 2012, 09:38:08 PM »
My ass you are ignoring me.  As far as I am concerned you won't answer simply because you can't answer.

Answer what ?  :-\ What do you expect ? I think enough was disclosed, don't expect too much...

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #278 on: June 27, 2012, 10:04:07 PM »
Forest:

Quote
Answer what ?  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) What do you expect ? I think enough was disclosed, don't expect too much...

The simple fact is that if somebody alleges that coil shorting has a tangible benefit implying more energy out than energy in, then they should show data to back their claim up.  Are you uncomfortable with that?  It would be of great benefit if more people were comfortable with requesting data in an open source community.

Suppose you watch a clip where there is a spinning rotor with coil shorting and energy collecting capacitors and the person making the clip shows the voltage that can be built up in the caps, and then they show you the caps discharging into a charging battery and it all looks pretty impressive.

It may all look pretty impressive, but if the person doesn't show you measurements for the input energy and output energy then it's meaningless.  You have no idea if anything interesting is really happening without solid data.

So far nothing has been disclosed as far as I am aware.  The minimum expectation you should have and everyone should have on a forum for research into alternative energy is the energy in measurements and the energy out measurements.

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #278 on: June 27, 2012, 10:04:07 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #279 on: June 28, 2012, 12:49:42 AM »
Sounds great Loner.  ;)

Perhaps you or someone else should ask Konehead and/or Ismael to do just that, i.e. loop it and prove it, or keep your lips tight when it comes to making or supporting extraordinary claims.

Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #280 on: June 28, 2012, 07:54:13 PM »
go to hell mile too high I dont need your pathetic approval and stinky analysis nor do I want it

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #280 on: June 28, 2012, 07:54:13 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #281 on: June 28, 2012, 10:53:50 PM »
Konehead:

The technology that you use for the coil pulsing and energy collection is your choice.   The idea is to look at your system as a black box, with a mechanical power input on one end and an electrical output on the other end.

So there are two challenges associated with your system.  The first is to design the coil pulsing system itself.  The second is to design  the measuring systems for the input and the output.

Then, you make adjustments to your coil pulsing system, then do a test run and measure the input and the output.  You can iterate on that and try to perfect your system.

That's what I would do if I was in your shoes, and I would welcome both challenges.

As far as the coil shorting itself goes, what I think is happening is the following:  When you short the coil at the peak of the sine wave, the voltage across the coil goes to zero.  At that moment in time the coil is seeing a lot of changing flux from the passing magnet.  Therefore current starts to flow through the coil.  It will rise linearly from zero and start to flow through the MOSFET array.  You are getting Lenz drag on the rotor while the current is increasing.  When the switch opens, whatever energy now stored in the coil has to go somewhere, and that is into the capacitors or the coil starts self-resonating, whatever your design does.   However, let's examine the case where the coil charges a capacitor through a diode.

Two things will be happening at the same time when the coil starts charging the capacitor.  The first thing is what I just stated above, the stored energy in the coil due to the current flow will dump into the capacitor.  The second thing is that the moving rotor magnet will also charge the capacitor because there is still changing magnetic flux.  This second effect will also cause Lenz dag on the rotor.

The next step would be to verify that sequence of events on the scope.  Working on the bench is the bridge between theory and practical reality.  What I said would have to be verified, I could have made some mistakes.

With respect to the transfer of the energy, starting off with a discharged capacitor has some issues.  When you first start to charge the capacitor and it's at zero volts, it's a very low impedance.  For the first fraction of second it looks like zero ohms.  That means that there will be an impedance mismatch with the coil.  At the very start of the capacitor charging cycle, the initial power flowing through the coil will be burned off in the internal resistance of the coil itself.  As the capacitor voltage starts to climb, its instantaneous resistance will start to increase and as the power flows through the coil, less will be dissipated in the resistance of the coil itself, and more will be stored in the capacitor.

When I think about this, you can see a potential negative issue associated with going with very short pulses and discharging the capacitor for every single pulse.  Suppose a single pulse only charges the capacitor to 0.3 volts.  If you then discharge the capacitor for every pulse back to zero volts, then the capacitor always looks like a low impedance device (depends on the size of the capacitor also).   But you can imagine a scenario where short shorting pulses generate very small energy pulses from the coils.  These very small energy pulses from the coils are always hitting capacitors that are at zero volts.  In that scenario most of the mechanical energy extracted from the spinning rotor will be burnt off in the internal resistance of the coil itself instead of going into the capacitor.

Some issues for your consideration.

MileHigh

Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #282 on: June 29, 2012, 04:17:03 AM »
I am not reading your posts at all mr mile too-high so you are wasting your time I see your name and dont even glance at it.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #283 on: June 29, 2012, 04:47:46 AM »
Konehead:

Well then why don't you point me to a working Romerouk/Muller motor that is a self-runner that uses your coil shorting technique?  I am not aware of any in existence.  I think a lot of people had their hopes high for ZeroFossilFuel.  I just checked and the last clip that was posted related to his Romeruk build was eight months ago.

After all the talk, building, testing, measuring input and output, the real goal is results.  Can you link to any positive results associated with coil shorting experiments?

With respect to the discussions about the tech, whether it be Kehyo77's new design or your discussions about coil shorting techniques, the thing that you want to do is check your theories against what your scope is showing you.  A very useful technique is to construct a timing diagram based on your scope observations.  If you are good and you understand what you are doing, or you learn as you go along, you should be able to produce a timing diagram that shows exactly what happens with respect to the voltage and current signals of interest.  You can also add a derived signal to the timing diagram, the instantaneous power.  Then you can derive another signal from the instantaneous power.  You just have to integrate the instantaneous power signal with respect to time and you can derive an instantaneous energy signal.

That would be a great exercise, to plot the complete timing diagram for a coil shorting system.  Even if it ends up not being over unity, you still get the satisfaction of understanding your circuit inside-out.  That gives you an expanded knowledge base for tackling your next experiment.

I will repeat it again:  For analyzing pulse circuits, your two best friends are your scope and some graph paper for constructing your timing diagram.  If you really know what you are doing you can create a full energy audit trail for your experiment.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #284 on: June 29, 2012, 05:13:07 AM »
I found a timing diagram for illustrative  purposes.  With your two scope channels you can often keep a "reference" signal on one channel and with your other scope probe poke around in your circuit and look at any signal you want.  With a little bit of effort you can then draw three, four, or five signals all referenced to the original "reference" signal.  That way you can understand cause and effect relationships between signals and get a "snapshot in time" of the entire sequence of events, from the coil shorting right through to the charging of the collector capacitors.

That's what the analysis of pulse circuits is all about.

MileHigh


 

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