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Author Topic: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR  (Read 281731 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2012, 07:50:38 PM »
Ismael:

In your clip you claim that when you short a coil and then collect the energy in a capacitor using an FWBR that you get three times the energy collected in the capacitor as compared to the energy that was put into the coil.

Show us some proof please.

MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #210 on: June 21, 2012, 07:50:38 PM »

Offline konehead

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #211 on: June 22, 2012, 07:54:35 PM »
a peak coil shorting experiment is simple to do - do it yourself if you want real proof or look at Ismaels 133% eff electric car tested by Filipino DOE in lab on peswiki (his MEG powering the car uses coil-shorting tech) if you want official government-lab tested proof...
the DC cap in coil-shorting experiment will go to X20 voltage over short period of time, and X3 voltage instantly.
Three times more voltage in cap and at discharge into load you will have three times more power.
If magnets induce coils at 60hz have coil-short event occure for no more than .5milliseconds - do short at sinewave peak and wiht that ratio of pulsewidthh-of-short to freqeuncy and it wont affect draw to motor spinnnng magnet-rotor at all.
 
 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #212 on: June 22, 2012, 11:03:16 PM »
Konehead:

Quote
a peak coil shorting experiment is simple to do - do it yourself if you want real proof or look at Ismaels 133% eff electric car tested by Filipino DOE in lab on peswiki (his MEG powering the car uses coil-shorting tech) if you want official government-lab tested proof...

The burden is on Ismael to prove his claims.  Let him do it, not me.  You have already read the rebuttals to the Filipino DOE lab tests in this thread.

Here are some good comments from PESN:

http://pesn.com/2012/05/15/9602093_Aviso_Demonstrates_Self-Looped_Generator_for_Philippine_International_TV/

Quote
The only discrepancy was between the power measured as drawn from the batteries which averaged 307W versus the dynamometer average of 403W.  If one is familiar with dynamometers that apparent energy gain is easily seen as low-range offset error in the torque transducer.  The dynamometer at UPME is reated at 260KW.  The 100W discrepancy corresponds to 0.038% Full-scale error on the dynamometer.  It is way below the instrument accuracy.  Consequently, there is no reliable evidence that the motor delivered anymore mechanical power than drawn from the batteries.  There was no evidence of anything unusual.

In plain English you can't use a dynamometer designed to measure up to 260 Kw to measure 300 watts.  This is a known issue with many comparable measuring devices; you can't accurately measure very very small values as compared to the full-scale measurement capability of the device.

Quote
the DC cap in coil-shorting experiment will go to X20 voltage over short period of time, and X3 voltage instantly.
Three times more voltage in cap and at discharge into load you will have three times more power.

I don't know why you would say this because you know that measuring voltage without factoring in current is meaningless.

Quote
If magnets induce coils at 60hz have coil-short event occure for no more than .5milliseconds - do short at sinewave peak and wiht that ratio of pulsewidthh-of-short to freqeuncy and it wont affect draw to motor spinnnng magnet-rotor at all.

I disagree with you.  What I will say is that in many cases if you draw a small amount of energy from a spinning rotor, that the change in speed of the rotor will be imperceptible with your human senses.

So, my question still stands, wee need proof of Ismael's claim and that should be done by Ismael himself.  He needs to do a full proper bench test to prove his claim.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #212 on: June 22, 2012, 11:03:16 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #213 on: June 23, 2012, 12:53:35 AM »
Konehead:

The burden is on Ismael to prove his claims.  Let him do it, not me.  You have already read the rebuttals to the Filipino DOE lab tests in this thread.

Here are some good comments from PESN:

http://pesn.com/2012/05/15/9602093_Aviso_Demonstrates_Self-Looped_Generator_for_Philippine_International_TV/

In plain English you can't use a dynamometer designed to measure up to 260 Kw to measure 300 watts.  This is a known issue with many comparable measuring devices; you can't accurately measure very very small values as compared to the full-scale measurement capability of the device.

I don't know why you would say this because you know that measuring voltage without factoring in current is meaningless.

I disagree with you.  What I will say is that in many cases if you draw a small amount of energy from a spinning rotor, that the change in speed of the rotor will be imperceptible with your human senses.

So, my question still stands, wee need proof of Ismael's claim and that should be done by Ismael himself.  He needs to do a full proper bench test to prove his claim.

MileHigh

"The burden is on Ismael to prove his claims.  Let him do it, not me.  You have already read the rebuttals to the Filipino DOE lab tests in this thread."

Really? Says who?  You?   :]  keep dreamin  Rebuttals?  Are they rebuttals that are backed up by testing? Or are those rebutts just talkin? ? 
Well I demand that those rebutters bare their burden of proofs, or, or, Ill just be really really mad at dem. Yea, vewee angwee.  ;]

"I don't know why you would say this because you know that measuring voltage without factoring in current is meaningless.
"
Again and again, you must not have read the comment you are answering here and just assuming, again, or you know exactly what was stated and offering argument in favor of your own views. So which is it M?  You very well know that a measure of voltage in a "cap" that it is unnecessary to figure in current to know the value of energy stored in that cap over a period of time.  Cmom M. You know better. ;]  Dont you?  Isnt this what has been discussed in the tar baby thread, that you spend a lot of time in? ;] Hmmm?

"So, my question still stands, wee need proof of Ismael's claim and that should be done by Ismael himself.  He needs to do a full proper bench test to prove his claim."

Again, more demands?  Or what? People cant make a thread here and talk about it? Again, says who? You?  (I Chuckle)  You are simply amazing. I mean that sincerely. ;]

Mags


Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #214 on: June 23, 2012, 01:48:44 AM »
Mags:

Ismael makes a claim in his clip that his circuit will give you back three times the energy over what you put in.

I left the capacitor issue in an oversimplified form.  Voltage, current, capacitance are all meaningless unless you talk about energy in vs. energy out, or average power in vs. average power out.

So I am asking Ismael to back up his claim with data and to show us how he makes his measurements, etc.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #214 on: June 23, 2012, 01:48:44 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #215 on: June 23, 2012, 02:22:43 AM »
Mags:

Ismael makes a claim in his clip that his circuit will give you back three times the energy over what you put in.

I left the capacitor issue in an oversimplified form.  Voltage, current, capacitance are all meaningless unless you talk about energy in vs. energy out, or average power in vs. average power out.

So I am asking Ismael to back up his claim with data and to show us how he makes his measurements, etc.

MileHigh


Kone said...

the DC cap in coil-shorting experiment will go to X20 voltage over short period of time, and X3 voltage instantly.
Three times more voltage in cap and at discharge into load you will have three times more power.

MH, why is it that you saying now....

I left the capacitor issue in an oversimplified form.  Voltage, current, capacitance are all meaningless unless you talk about energy in vs. energy out, or average power in vs. average power out.

M. In the claim, he is charging the drive battery while powering a load(the car).
I know you want proof and now. But that is totally up to Ismael, whenever he is ready to do so. So I guess once he does produce papers and data, then it will be time to examine that and make arguments for or against the claim. But even then, would you believe it? ;]
So at that point, one would have to build it to prove or disprove the claim. But will you? ;]

As above, you say that you "asked".  But in the previous post, it was "he needs to show".  I can see the difference.  ;]

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #216 on: June 23, 2012, 02:47:24 AM »
Mags:

I am not talking about the car project.  I am talking about the clip Ismael linked to a few postings back where he draws a simplified schematic and makes his free energy claim.  It's just four or five postings back, Ismael's last posting.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #216 on: June 23, 2012, 02:47:24 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #217 on: June 23, 2012, 03:09:55 AM »
Mags:

I am not talking about the car project.  I am talking about the clip Ismael linked to a few postings back where he draws a simplified schematic and makes his free energy claim.  It's just four or five postings back, Ismael's last posting.

MileHigh

Ismael is Kehyo77?  Hmm.  If this were so, why would Kehyo77 say this about Ismaels circuit and vid presented in the post?
"Hi. I am very interested in this technology and I will be doing some experiments in the coil shorting area."

And, the car does use the shorting tech. This was explained a while ago.

Mags


Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #218 on: June 23, 2012, 03:14:44 AM »
He probably is not Ismael.  I just looked at the YT date on the clip and assumed it was a brand new upload by Ismael himself.  Needless to say, the questions are directed at Ismael.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #218 on: June 23, 2012, 03:14:44 AM »
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Offline kEhYo77

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #219 on: June 23, 2012, 03:15:58 AM »
@MileHigh

Hi.
It wasn't  Ismael making that post... It is mine entry :D
And if You do not recognize that clip being a part of Ismael's presentation
where he tries to prove that claim on video then You have to watch it carefully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10JY4agHjE4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEtxb6skBCE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrbChoUe7B4
Having seen this footage I conclude that his basic experiment proves it.
Output capacitor bank is charged up to 1000VDC in this setup, while using his "black box".
An inverter, using about the same input power, is able to charge it only to 330VDC.
So he says it is 3x more, where in reality it is 9 TIMES MORE!!! ( E=0.5*C*V^2)...

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #220 on: June 23, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »
Kehyo77:

I only watched the first clip, the others are too long.

Quote
Having seen this footage I conclude that his basic experiment proves it.
Output capacitor bank is charged up to 1000VDC in this setup, while using his "black box".
An inverter, using about the same input power, is able to charge it only to 330VDC.
So he says it is 3x more, where in reality it is 9 TIMES MORE!!! ( E=0.5*C*V^2)...   

The voltage you can charge a capacitor bank to has nothing to do with the energy in vs. energy out or the average power in vs. the average power out.

Ismael is not credible and I apologize for mistaking you for Ismael.  We can expect that we will never see Ismael back up his free energy claims about the coil shorting with serious measurements and hard evidence.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #220 on: June 23, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »
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Offline kEhYo77

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #221 on: June 23, 2012, 02:14:27 PM »
@MileHigh



So how do You propose to measure Pin vs Pout using the simplest method available to me?
I do not have fancy equipment but I'd like to be able to do proper measurements
in coil shorting experiments... (My handheld scope has got one channel only and I'm in possession of only one multimeter).

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #222 on: June 23, 2012, 04:25:01 PM »
Kehyo77:

Your question can't be answered with a few sentences.  You should start a thread and ask for help from the people in the forum.  I am assuming that you are a beginner in electronics so you will need it.

If you plan to work with that schematic you posted then I am assuming that you can already describe how you think the energy in vs. energy out can be measured.  Don't take your eye off the ball and start discussing all sorts of things that aren't even related to what you are trying to accomplish.  As a minimum you would want to construct a full timing diagram for your circuit and unfortunately things like that are beyond the capabilities of most of the regular contributors to the forum.  The key to understanding your circuit and the energy or average power will be in the timing diagram.

Good luck.

MileHigh

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #223 on: June 23, 2012, 04:47:18 PM »
In plain English you can't use a dynamometer designed to measure up to 260 Kw to measure 300 watts.  This is a known issue with many comparable measuring devices; you can't accurately measure very very small values as compared to the full-scale measurement capability of the device.
you idiot... you don't know jack shit about dyno's do you...

prove your asinine claim that a chassis dyno can't be used.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: FUELLESS CAR PROTOTYPE by ISMAEL MOTOR
« Reply #224 on: June 23, 2012, 05:25:13 PM »
Quote
you idiot... you don't know jack shit about dyno's do you...

prove your asinine claim that a chassis dyno can't be used.

You moron, I don't know jack shit about dynos but I have read by comments by people that I believe to be credible.

Let Ismael prove that the chassis dyno can be used.

Do you believe that the test done at the Filipino DOT was legit and credible Wil-beast?

 

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