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Author Topic: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison  (Read 523968 times)

Drannom

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #330 on: May 27, 2008, 02:46:12 PM »
hello

Hutchinson had begun experiment after use a military diode !

if someone can find one of those diodes it may solve a part of the mystery

anyway, i think that crystal cell have been already give in the electrinium.pdf document

it explain how easy we can do it with steel (carbon-iron)

and more dificult with silver-iron compound,

a single molecule give 7 volts, so it do not need to be crystallize at all, imagine a plate

ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #331 on: May 27, 2008, 02:58:56 PM »
G'day all,

@Koen:  Nice attempt at a recovery with the quirk there dude. ;D  If the quirk moves that much, just put it in a hamster wheel
and generate volts that way .  ;D ;D ;D
Any chance of posting the formula for this stuff ? I haven't got any Germanium so I'll substitue it with pyrites.
Gallium to aluminium is like termites to wood. ;)

I mixed the contents of the cell I busted open yesterday with the gallium/aluminium powder I made a couple of weeks ago. I knew I'd find a use for it. Not wanting to be outdone in the naming stakes I'll call it Galluminium. ;D ;D
This new mix, which was a fine crumbly, damp tea leaf consistancy was rammed into a plastic tube with the original copper electrode down one side and a stainless steel strip down the other. The stainless becomes the -ve and copper +ve.
It is sitting  at 0.52V and has no trouble supplying 160uA.
I have this new compressed cell in series with the washing powder cell, total 1.213V and they are happily running a digital watch.
Still nothing to get excited about, but novalty value nonetheless.


Quirk to Enterprise, beam me up Scotty  ;D ;D

Ya gotta luv this

Ian

Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #332 on: May 27, 2008, 03:52:41 PM »
Hi guys! :)

@Drannom: Well, the electrinium thing is not as easy and clear cut as it seems.
It sounds easy, but try to imagine how you are going to seal a compound of two metals
like gold and silver inside a third metal while keeping the dipolar orientation of all the
compound molecules exactly the same, and I think you'll find it's almost impossible
to do so. Or at least, that's the impression I get when I think about it.
If you have any idea how to do that in the home workshop, then I'd very much like
to hear your suggestions. :)
Besides that, the electrimium "patent" does not give very clear indications on what
materials can be used. A few are suggested, but it is very clearly stated that atoms
must be chosen with suitable frequencies and there is zero explanation on what
exactly the author meant by that. It would seem the author had some kind of idea
in mind that every atom has its own specific frequency, and somehow the interaction
of these frequencies would "pump" electrons through the material. But how exactly
is not explained at all, and what frequencies he is talking about is also not explained.
Is he talking about nuclear magnetic resonance frequencies? Or about electron orbit
and emission frequencies?
How does he want to keep a Au-Ag pair in its place and with the right atom on the
right side of this pair, and in alignment with all the surrounding pairs, and at the
same time pour molten iron over the lot to cast them in it? I think even if you managed
to put the atom pairs on a surface with all the Ag facing one way and all the Au the other,
as soon as you start pouring the molten iron the entire placement and orientation will be lost
and you'll end up with a pool of molten iron-gold-silver alloy with none of the Au-Ag pairs
as you intended them.
At least, that's what I think...

@Ian
@Koen:  Nice attempt at a recovery with the quirk there dude. ;D  If the quirk moves that much, just put it in a hamster wheel
and generate volts that way .  ;D ;D ;D
Mwahahaha :D yeah good idea ;D
Quote
Any chance of posting the formula for this stuff ? I haven't got any Germanium so I'll substitue it with pyrites.
Gallium to aluminium is like termites to wood. ;)
Yup, sure is.
Formula was roughly: 1/5th of a tubes volume of silicate mix, mostly (homemade) sodium silicate (nicely made this time,
nice and white powdery material) with about a teaspoon or two of silver sand, about an entire tubes volume of RS,
a teaspoon or two of water, two teaspoons of gallium, one and a half teaspoon of germanium powder, a pinch of
aluminium powder. Tube is approximately 13cm tall and 5cm in diameter, so volume is 1021,15 cm^3.
I added the extra silver sand for two reasons: additional pure quartz and to compensate for any possible superfluous
sodium hydroxide leftover in the homemade sodium silicate; for this last reason I also added the pinch of aluminium
powder (after all, if there was any leftover NaOH it should react with the Al and neutralise the mix).
Heated it for a few hours while stirring well. Heated it for a couple of hours a few days later again. And again after
it had crawled out the tube. And again after that. And again. And again for the last time yesterday.
Don't know if it will work without the germanium though, but it might. ;)

Quote
I mixed the contents of the cell I busted open yesterday with the gallium/aluminium powder I made a couple of weeks ago. I knew I'd find a use for it. Not wanting to be outdone in the naming stakes I'll call it Galluminium. ;D ;D
Galluminium it is, sir! So noted and recorded. ;D
Quote from: Wikipedia:Galluminium
Galluminium (G?ljəˈmɪniəm) is a silvery white and ductile member of the boron group of chemical element alloys. It has the symbol GaAl; its atomic number is 13/31. It is not soluble in water under normal circumstances. It does not occur naturally. This material was made famous by the genious alchemist Sir Ian Middleton of Australia, who first made the material in 2008 for use in the then radical and now common crystal energy cells that power everything.
It has been rumoured to be distantly related to the infamous Quirk material that caused the global blackout of 2012 and has been shrouded in mystery ever since.
:D ;D

Quote
This new mix, which was a fine crumbly, damp tea leaf consistancy was rammed into a plastic tube with the original copper electrode down one side and a stainless steel strip down the other. The stainless becomes the -ve and copper +ve.
I like your scientific terminology there. "was rammed into a tube". ;D
Quote
It is sitting  at 0.52V and has no trouble supplying 160uA.
I have this new compressed cell in series with the washing powder cell, total 1.213V and they are happily running a digital watch.
Still nothing to get excited about, but novalty value nonetheless.
Yes, if the output remains. I thought you said you're pretty sure the washing powder
cell is galvanic? But the Galluminium mix cell is interesting... certainly! :)


Quote
Quirk to Enterprise, beam me up Scotty  ;D ;D

Bwhahahahahaha lol rofl etc :D :D

Ya gotta luv this[/quote]

Luvin it I tell ya! ;D


ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #333 on: May 27, 2008, 04:30:59 PM »
G'day all ( again)

@Koen:  Boy you're on form tonight  ;D I just let one of the guys here at work read your wikipedia quote, now he's gone of to google it! ;D ;D ;D. Brilliant!.
Thanks for the mix details, and I like the idea of the pinch of Al to neutralize any NaOH. :) I was going to ask you if you knew th pH
of the quirk but it looks like you had that covered. ;)

Ok back to work

Make it so number 1  ;D ;D

Ian

jeanna

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #334 on: May 27, 2008, 08:10:51 PM »
Some archeological notes from the kitchen of the Enterprise, probably dating to sometime in 2008:
-----------------

I made a mix hoping I could incorporate both Al and Mg in the crystal structure. Possibly as zeolite.


The mix:

1Tablespoon   dry clay
1 teaspoon     Epsom Salt (Mg sulphate)
1 teaspoon     Na Carbonate (washing soda)
1 Cup            dry portland cement - contains or is clinker
1 Cup            dry sand (this was used for Trawiger pyramid and contains some small amount of NaCl)
1 Cup            water

This mixed easily and it appeared that the clay dissolved first, then the sand dissolved. The whole thing became a very thick soup that had a gritty sound to it but was very homogeneous.

Since I wanted to use the Al and Mg of the metals to make an e-crystal, I wanted to keep to the Al for the container. This presents an interesting problem.

Melting container.

I am not sure adding Al powder would be enough? but it is a good idea. I don't know where to get Al powder yet.

After a day of taking readings I found this patent:

http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=6042808

This patent is for a manufacturing process for making zeloite at normal temperatures and includes the Mg which is why I looked for it and it also includes Ga. It has pictures and some formulas. Have a look.

Back to my kitchen.

I have taken a pic of a few things. Hopefully I can get it into one post.

The bottom of the Al juice can is filled with this stuff then I cut the can some more and made the spiral electrode that is inside. It only took 30 minutes to be able to place this electrode into the soup and have it not rest on the bottom. It solidified a room temperature in 2 hours and this morning after 18-20 hours, it has become the white of dry cement.

If I touch one probe directly to the crystal and leave one on the electrode I read 1 volt and 124uA. But I think that is because the probe metal is nickel or zinc plate, so I don't count that.

The pic shows the leads on different Al probes. I stuck 2 Al wires into it as well as the can strip, but the terminals are all made of Al.

Later I lined a cheese tub with Al foil and filled it and added a foil electrode and an Al wire electrode.

See how the foil has torn from the crystal? It dissolved it and I assume made some H2 overnight. (too slow for a car  ;D )  So, I am wondering if I even have any real surface contact between the Al foil, wire, can and the crystal.

Outside the pic are 4 pancakes that have dissolved their Al foil plates - and their foil electrodes too.

Maybe when it is all dry, I will use some sodium silicate to "glue" the electrodes into their places. Perhaps this will give some avenue for the charge to travel.
-------------
here is the pic I hope.

jeanna

I forgot to add the can gets 0.119vdc and 2.9uA using both Al terminals as shown in the pic.

Drannom

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #335 on: May 27, 2008, 08:12:01 PM »
Dear Koen1

i am not good in english, just read carefully the electrinium.pdf, it is not like you said

you'll find that document everywhere

there is no such gold in that !!!

you are talking not clearify at alll!!

there is only 12 chapitres

first recipe: take a bar of steel, make it hot hot red, and freeze it slowly while putting many volts on it

the second recipe may be adapt, but to create your silver compound and the iron compound you have to create a battery to oxydise both of them (i do not know how to say that, read read read)




Drannom

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #336 on: May 28, 2008, 10:37:00 AM »
hello

i have red electrinium.pdf many months ago, i have to read that text again, in fact Koen1 may be right, i just realize that i have read too much rapidly the 3 last chapitres, and there is no oxydation of silver and iron, the solution to create compound is made of someting else,

and yes there is gold in the recipe

i just focus on the simple recipe with steel, cause here we want some result in a simple way

a suggest the simple recipe with a very short rod of steel with high voltage (many thousand) at low current

pardon me Koen1


Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #337 on: May 28, 2008, 12:49:32 PM »
Hi all :)

Great, the thread is not dead after all ;)

@Jeanna:
Some archeological notes from the kitchen of the Enterprise, probably dating to sometime in 2008:
-----------------
lol "captains log, stardate 1234567.8" ;)

Quote
I made a mix hoping I could incorporate both Al and Mg in the crystal structure. Possibly as zeolite.


The mix:

1Tablespoon   dry clay
1 teaspoon     Epsom Salt (Mg sulphate)
1 teaspoon     Na Carbonate (washing soda)
1 Cup            dry portland cement - contains or is clinker
1 Cup            dry sand (this was used for Trawiger pyramid and contains some small amount of NaCl)
1 Cup            water

This mixed easily and it appeared that the clay dissolved first, then the sand dissolved. The whole thing became a very thick soup that had a gritty sound to it but was very homogeneous.

Since I wanted to use the Al and Mg of the metals to make an e-crystal, I wanted to keep to the Al for the container. This presents an interesting problem.

Melting container.
Hmmm... Oh, right, I almost forgot, you're a potter! So you're probably trying to bake the stuff at "normal" ceramics temperature?
And aluminium melts around 660 degrees celcius (1220 F if that's the system you use), while generally pottery is baked at temps
of at least 1000 degrees C... So if that's what you wanted to do, then yes indeed, the aluminium will melt.
It is one of the problems I ran into quite early on in my cell experiments. I'd love to 'paint' a plate of metal with several different metal oxides
and/or sulfides and bake them into a sort of 'laminate' of vitreous material, but of the more common and readily available metals only
iron or nickel with a melting point of around 1500 degrees would be able to stand the heat needed for glazing (between 1100 and 1400 degrees generally).
Ok, and perhaps copper up to 1000 degrees, but that's not hot enough.
So yeah, dilemma if you want to bake the stuff in a metal container...  :-\

Quote
I am not sure adding Al powder would be enough? but it is a good idea. I don't know where to get Al powder yet.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, but if you mean you're not sure if the aluminium powder will bond with the other stuff, then
I think adding it to a mix with sodium and water in it should cause it to react and at least form alumina (Al-oxide) and probably with
some of the silicates as well. Like in the geopolymer material. Aluminium binds quite well with silicates in general, and it tends
to react chemically with sodium in solution, so it should blend quite alright.
As for where to get it, over here small jars of aluminium powder are sold in art supply shops and hobby&crafts shops as
"silver powder" for use in homemade paints, glazes, ets. I have a jar labeled "New Silver Powder" but on the back it very
clearly reads "pure fine aluminium powder, does not contain silver." And when you open it up you immediately smell the
distinct (and quite nasty if I may say so) smell of aluminium.
I would advise to watch out a little when using Al powder in mixes. It is very reactive with quite a number of compounds,
and one easily adds a little too much of the stuff. Just a pinch is often enough to make an acidic solution bubble and fizz
like crazy, and often this will be accompanied with release of quite a bit of hydrogen gas. So do it in a room with good
ventialtion and add only small amounts at a time. And of course don't smoke while you're at it but I don't think any of us
is stupid enough to do that in a room filled with nasty powder traces and funky chemicals ;)

Quote
After a day of taking readings I found this patent:

http://www.pat2pdf.org/pat2pdf/foo.pl?number=6042808

This patent is for a manufacturing process for making zeloite at normal temperatures and includes the Mg which is why I looked for it and it also includes Ga. It has pictures and some formulas. Have a look.
Thanks for that link. Yes, reads quite straighforward. Good idea, really, to use Ga instead of Al to make lower temperature zeolites...

Quote
Back to my kitchen.

I have taken a pic of a few things. Hopefully I can get it into one post.

The bottom of the Al juice can is filled with this stuff then I cut the can some more and made the spiral electrode that is inside. It only took 30 minutes to be able to place this electrode into the soup and have it not rest on the bottom. It solidified a room temperature in 2 hours and this morning after 18-20 hours, it has become the white of dry cement.
(and of zeolite ;))

Quote
If I touch one probe directly to the crystal and leave one on the electrode I read 1 volt and 124uA. But I think that is because the probe metal is nickel or zinc plate, so I don't count that.

The pic shows the leads on different Al probes. I stuck 2 Al wires into it as well as the can strip, but the terminals are all made of Al.

Later I lined a cheese tub with Al foil and filled it and added a foil electrode and an Al wire electrode.

See how the foil has torn from the crystal? It dissolved it and I assume made some H2 overnight. (too slow for a car  ;D )  So, I am wondering if I even have any real surface contact between the Al foil, wire, can and the crystal.

Outside the pic are 4 pancakes that have dissolved their Al foil plates - and their foil electrodes too.

Maybe when it is all dry, I will use some sodium silicate to "glue" the electrodes into their places. Perhaps this will give some avenue for the charge to travel.
-------------
here is the pic I hope.

jeanna

I forgot to add the can gets 0.119vdc and 2.9uA using both Al terminals as shown in the pic.
Well one thing is clear: when you get and add aluminium powder to that mix it will definately react and fizz.
I would like to suggest several things: 1) stick an iron/steel nail and a piece of copper wire into the mix while it hardens,
see what output those give in respect to eachother as well as the aluminium electrodes
2) add aluminium powder (or even fine scraps of aliminium foil should work), so it can react with the acidic components
and chemically neutralise the material a bit, so the aluminium electrodes at least bond nicely to the material
and don't dissolve (too much). You can add other stuff too, as long as the ph becomes more neutral.
But nice going Jeanna! :D Thanks for the update and the pics.

@Drannom: No problem buddy. Your remarks about the part of the electrinium pdf where
molten iron fed high voltage is mentioned, as well as certain other parts of the story involving
the polarisation and orientation of dielectric compounds, were quite right, and those parts of
the pdf are very interesting and certainly to be taken into account. So no excuses needed,
as far as I'm concerned. :)
I just think the pdf makes it sound a lot easier than it really is.

ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #338 on: May 28, 2008, 01:49:51 PM »
G'day all,

@Koen

Quote
And of course don't smoke while you're at it but I don't think any of us
is stupid enough to do that in a room filled with nasty powder traces and funky chemicals

Aren't you forgetting someone? You know ol "hell boy " here will do anything to collect  the insurance
money. ;D ;D ;D

Canberra Times  15th May 2009.  "Man tazers dog with piece of homemade rock"
 ;D

Must sleep............

jeanna

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #339 on: May 28, 2008, 05:18:09 PM »
Hi rockers  ;) ,

Today my juice can gives a voltage reading of 0.188vdc and 3.6uA up from even last night.

Now, I must have made some things unclear so I want to fix that.

First, the temperature was all at room temperature. 62 deg F (Is that around 20C ?)

I neglected to mention the very interresting part about the pH.
A few minutes after I added the water and I thought it was increasing in wetness, I checked the pH.  it was between 10 and 11 .

I thought to check it again last night. This is on the remaining unused glop of stuff ( before I added 2 copper electrodes.) It had started to solidify and I added water. IN SPITE OF THAT the pH was around 13 - 14.

My conclusion is that the chemical reaction that Davidovits describes that creates NaOH after some time had occurred. This would explain the bubbling of the reaction. NaOH plus Al creates H2 as gas plus AlOH remaining in the mixture.

I should have explained my reason to use similar electrodes. I don't have any other way to rule out a galvanic reaction happening between the electrodes. This way any voltage I see should be happening in the mix; and, hopefully within its crystalline structure.

So, room temperature
similar electrodes
powerfully alkaline
growing in m-voltage and u-amperage as it continues to dry.

Koen,
Does a zeolite really look like dry cement?

If so, maybe I was more successful than I realized.

thank you,

jeanna

jeanna

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #340 on: May 28, 2008, 08:17:36 PM »
Here is a pic of the cheese tub with the same crystal as the other. This is the one with some of the Al foil dissolved. I put the + probe at 12 oclock. The - probe is on that spiral wire. Both are Al.

Yesterday there was no difference between this tub and the juice can. both around 0.120vdc in the AM and 0.150vdc in the PM .

 Today. after the last post I decided to check the tub. 0.405vdc and 24uA. Big improvement eh?

Drannom

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #341 on: May 29, 2008, 01:02:45 PM »


here the 2 sentences  from chapitre 9 of electrinium.pdf

...

The body of the Unit could be made from a number of materials such as steel. Silicon, Germanium, Carbon and others. Each of these materials would be suitable for an Electrinium Unit designed for a particular purpose. Units made with steel bodies would be of an extreme voltage, so high that they could not be cut and assembled into batteries, but they would be very easy to make.

...

so why not try the easy way first !?  :D

Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #342 on: May 29, 2008, 01:05:08 PM »
Hi rockers  ;)
:D

Ah, yes, to eliminate galvanic effects on the output using two identical electrodes
should work... And trying to get the ph neutral should work also.

Quote
Koen,
Does a zeolite really look like dry cement?
Well of course not all cements look the same, but as long as you're talking
about rocks that are white-ish and have a hard and dry consistency like cement,
I think zeolite comes quite close...
I'll attack a pic of zeolite that looks exactly like the zeolite I have back home,
and you'll see what I mean. although perhaps I should note that as soon as
water is added the zeolite I have tends to colour slightly blueish grey instead
of white, and it turns whiter the more it dries out.

It is quite plausible you have already made a zeolite. I have made a few ceramics
that looked and behaved darn similar to the zeolite mineral I bought.
Typical test to see if you have true zeolite or "just" something very close to it
in the aluminosilicate family is this:
Put some of the rock in a small pan, preferably in the form of gravel. Add some water,
so the rocks are wet and in a tiny pool of it. Heat it on a stove.
Zeolite will now start "dancing" and "jumping" in the pan as the water it contains
evaporates through the pores of the material, and this will generally make a hissing
sound and the rocks will at least shake and quiver if not actually jump up a bit.
Other aluminosilicates generally do not do this.

Quote
If so, maybe I was more successful than I realized.
Yep, you may very well be :)

Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #343 on: May 29, 2008, 01:40:04 PM »

here the 2 sentences  from chapitre 9 of electrinium.pdf

...

The body of the Unit could be made from a number of materials such as steel. Silicon, Germanium, Carbon and others. Each of these materials would be suitable for an Electrinium Unit designed for a particular purpose. Units made with steel bodies would be of an extreme voltage, so high that they could not be cut and assembled into batteries, but they would be very easy to make.

...

so why not try the easy way first !?  :D

:) I read the pdf again last night because you brought it up again.
I also dug up the notes I made about it in the past.
Here's what I found then, and I still agree with that:
- the author first starts talking about a unit made of Iron-gold "electrinium compound",
encased in iron. So basically just gold atoms inside of a block of iron.
He does not continue that line of reasoning, just breaks it off, and then
he starts over again with a description of a prototype unit, which all of a sudden
is a lot more complicated than simply adding some gold to some molten iron.
This suggests the author had not actually thought the entire thing through
in detail yet, before he started the chapter on the prototype; after all, why not
describe the simplest version to make and then describe how to make it
as a prototype? Why instead talk about a version that sounds like it is easier to
make but then choose a more difficult one as prototype? It can only be
because while thinking about the apparently simpler version the author
realised he had not taken everything into account properly and has realised
that even making a simple prototype is much more difficult than he had originally
thought. To not lose face he does not point this out.
- the final prototype procedure he describes is far from simple and even has
a few great big question marks attached to it.
Melting pure silicium takes at least 1420 degrees C, melting iron takes 1538C,
and melting silver takes 962C. The author assumes we can make Iron-silver
molecules, which I guess is possible by chemical reaction of elements in
solution, but he seems to assume that these molecules will remain seperate
molecules even when we mix them with the molten silicium at 1420C.
Since that is almost double the melting temperature of silver, and since
I do not know of any silver-iron alloys such as suggested by the author,
it seems to me that that is a bit optimistic to say the least. ;)
But even if we assume that we can have Ag-Fe molecules at that high
temperature, as the author suggests, then it is still almost undoable
to first melt all of the ingredients again, then mix them up at those
high temperatures, and them pour them into another crucible.
If you have specialised equipment so you can actually perform those
acts inside a blazing hot oven/kiln of 1500 degrees then it is possible.
But who has that kind of equipment?
And then we need to have the molten silicium crystallise and cool down.
Which should indeed work the way he describes. But that is again not
easy and needs special alteration of the oven/kiln.
And it assumes that silicium with a high level of silver and iron pollution
in it does not experience any interference from those elements during
crystallisation. Now I know that very low percentages of pollutions, like
1% or 2%, are/were used in semiconductor technology and were/are
made in a way similar to what the author describes.
But I also know that anything higher than 5% or so messes up the neat
crystallisation process, and that it depends on how well the pollution atoms
integrate into the crystalline structure. Silver and iron are not really elements
known for their great integration into pure silicium crystals.
And so I have quite a number of doubts about the prototype and especially
its production process.

On top of that I just don't have the facilities to mix molten materials at 1500C,
nor to add any seed crystals at such temperatures.
I do have access to a potters oven/kiln, and it can go up to 1500C, but
I am not insane enough to open the door when it's that hot. ;)

And so I'm sticking to lower temperature materials that I can work with
without turning my workshop into a little piece of inferno. ;D

Drannom

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #344 on: May 29, 2008, 08:28:54 PM »
@Koen1


so why not try the easy way first !?

use direct carbon-iron polarisation by auto crystallizing a simple rod of steel (4mm), with no others complicated thing, i would like to have your analysis on that too ! if the iron-carbon direct association give an electrinium producing too lot of volts, i do not see any problem with that....

if it is easy it must be easy, the author his a real master, i can sense it in his expression of his understanding

and we can find an another way to do with silver-iron ?? well may be yes may be not but do not take the peanut, try easy first !!? = iron-carbon