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Author Topic: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison  (Read 424348 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #975 on: July 11, 2011, 02:07:01 PM »
Ian:

Great to see you back and feeling a bit better.  I too am glad that Mr. Hutchinson went open source on this.  I am looking forward to seeing your experiments.

@ Nick:

Great job on the cement cell.  I believe you are running the led direct from the cell correct?  Have you tried a JT circuit on it to improve output light and/or longevity?  I am sorry if you have answered this before, I am finding it hard to keep up with all of the topics I am interested in.

@ All:

I think that any type of free energy, no matter how large or small, is a very good thing.  If it is small now, I firmly believe most of these devices I am aware of can be scaled up.  Imagine a 55 gallon drum cement cell with a 4" OD copper rod in the center?  Imagine 100 of these connected in series and or parallel?  So, we have to crawl before walking and running and I, for one, am very glad we have real experimenters here sharing their work and results.

Bill

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #975 on: July 11, 2011, 02:07:01 PM »

Offline ramset

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #976 on: July 11, 2011, 02:36:19 PM »
Bill
Quote:
I think that any type of free energy, no matter how large or small, is a very good thing.  If it is small now, I firmly believe most of these devices I am aware of can be scaled up.  Imagine a 55 gallon drum cement cell with a 4" OD copper rod in the center?  Imagine 100 of these connected in series and or parallel?  So, we have to crawl before walking and running and I, for one, am very glad we have real experimenters here sharing their work and results.
------------
"AMEN"

These men are the "Gems" of our society!!

Chet

Offline dimbulb

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #977 on: July 11, 2011, 04:15:24 PM »
the problem is you're dealing with kilowatts or megawatts you are dealing in milliwatts. very puny results.

take a look at your posts all very negative just like desertphile and
for some time photovoltaic had critics they were completely wrong.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #977 on: July 11, 2011, 04:15:24 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #978 on: July 11, 2011, 04:43:02 PM »
    Bill, Ian, and All:
   Thank you for your comments.  My point was that anyone can make  very simple cells using ordinary beach sand and cement, without hard to get chemicals, anywhere in the world, and can use to light a room in low intensity light, like night lights. They cost almost nothing and give permanent light. Although they will not connect in parallel to improve the output, they will add up ok in series. I've gotten up to 12 volts and from them, so far. 
  They are a John Bedini idea, and were also made by Lidmotor using beach sand. These are my version.  I am now working on making magnisium- carbon cells that output 1.5 Amps each cell, and can be connected in both parallel and series.  But, anything that uses any type of salt to increase the voltage is doomed to self destruct in time.
  @ Bill:  Yes, I've tried many types Jtc and Hartley type oscillators on these cells.  Although they do work, so far, I get the same light intensity by connecting the leds direct to the cells, by using two or more cells, These are the things that need to be further worked on and tested.  In the pic I'm showing the capacitor can cell connected to a basic Jt, and lighting a red led.
  These cells can take a charge from a solar panels, as well as also give a charge to any dead battery or capacitors. Especially led acid batteries, up to their same  voltage and current levels.  100 of these would produce 100 volts, but the only same amount of current as one cell.  My best cells output 1.5 v and 65 mA.  and still are working after several months, although at somewhat lower levels.
 John H cells output 7mA. 
   I have shown these on the Bedini Earth Light thread, along with further explanations, for those interested. 

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #979 on: July 11, 2011, 04:44:48 PM »
   capacitor can cell connected to a Jt:

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #979 on: July 11, 2011, 04:44:48 PM »
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Offline gauschor

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #980 on: July 11, 2011, 05:15:41 PM »
some of these batteries never run out.

The thing which bothers me here is that:

after 4 months it has lose 1/2 the current and some voltage it still outputs 30mA and 1.2 volts

So they actually do run out. It also hints again to some corrosion process, and I am therefore assuming some kind of reaction takes place between the elements in the tube - probably due to some moisture. The drainage process might happen much faster if you put on a real load.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #981 on: July 11, 2011, 07:05:43 PM »
  I have explained in other threads that the reason that the cement cells never run out, is because they are not the source of the energy, anymore than solar cells is.
  The reason that they lose some of the output,  is due to them losing their ability to conduct the current after a while, instead of what appears as they are draining in voltage and current. Although they can and do hold or store some power, they are not just like a battery, or a normal capacitor either , but more like a permanent output higher farad capacitor, with some battery holding ability. 
  I am disappointed in both their ability to be not be able to be placed in parallel, as well as there diminishing output.  But, they are still lighting my house every night, as night lights.   
  The only way to improve on the results up to now,  is to stay with it...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #981 on: July 11, 2011, 07:05:43 PM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #982 on: July 11, 2011, 09:56:39 PM »
The thing which bothers me here is that:

So they actually do run out. It also hints again to some corrosion process, and I am therefore assuming some kind of reaction takes place between the elements in the tube - probably due to some moisture. The drainage process might happen much faster if you put on a real load.

Yes some of these cells are galvanic and do run out of usable power over time. I can't speak for the Hutchison cells for I have not made one but the Concrete or Cement cells are for the most part a galvanic process. Especially the concrete cells that are in a soda can, as those cells are filled to the brim with concrete and for the water inside to completely dry is almost impossible. The can cells trap the water inside making it hard for it to escape, that is why it makes such a great cell to have.

I don't mean to attack the idea of these cells as I do work on them myself, its just that we need to work towards cells that are not galvanic. To say these cells will always produce power is very much true but the same goes for a AA battery too. You can short a AA battery out for a year and it will still bounce back in voltage just like these cells do.

I also think that amps are not what we should be going after. Its the amps that is killing the galvanic cells just like with any other battery. The amps need to be down to almost zero if you want free energy by not destroying the dipole. And yes voltage can do work as it is energy. I also find that concrete is not the best to use as it holds water and destroys the plates much faster. I find that using glue spread out on a flat surface and not place in a container to work the best, it dries faster when spread out and the glue dries clear once all the water is gone. But the glue needs things added to it to be affect like potassium chloride.

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #983 on: July 11, 2011, 10:43:09 PM »
I've been think very critically about these cells and have listed the problems that we must solve first as to eliminate the galvanic reaction and what it brings.

-Water: Water has got to the biggest thing with these cells as water causes a galvanic reaction.

Concrete; Concrete by itself is corrosive due to the limestone in it and the fact the concrete doesn't dry clear can't show us the inner workings of the plates to see if they're corroding or not. Plus Concrete can take months to dry, we need something faster.

Dissimilar metals: This one is a tricky one as the dissimilar metals are key to getting a potential. Using the same metals does give a voltage so that shows that the energy we're seeing is not 100% galvanic.

Using containers such as soda cans: Using containers like soda cans helps to trap the water in as it can not evaporate. If you think about it water thats been spread out over a surface will evaporate faster than water in a soda can.


The solutions that I have come up with so far...
-I've replaced Concrete with Elmer's glue, its cheap, already has the right amount of water in it, dries clear, and most importantly it dries much faster!
 
-As for a container I don't use one. What I find best is to spread the glue over a flat surface but not just any flat surface but notebook paper. The notebook paper will actual absorb the water thats in the glue out and away from the cell. Also spreading the glue out on the paper allows it to dry faster.
 
-Using just glue will not work, when it dries it makes a very good dielectric. The best things to add to the glue are salts. Table salt has work really well but it is very corrosive so its not best to use table salt. Adding Potassium Chloride and Epsom Salt to the glue and mixing it in works best. The crystals of the salts make the cell more conductive. Its the crystals that we're after as they produce they produce the energy we need (ions).

-I also use small plates, wires actually. I could get more amps if I use bigger plates but its the voltage that you want.

-Also I don't try to hook a load directly to the cell, but instead hook a capacitor to it instead. When you do this you can see a very interesting effect. If you take a cell that only produces 500mV and hook it to a capacitor with less voltage in it than that of the cell the capacitor will charge up above the original 500mV to something like 600mV.


With these small improvements I edge closer to a non galvanic reaction.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #983 on: July 11, 2011, 10:43:09 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #984 on: July 11, 2011, 10:55:02 PM »
   
  Guys:
  I got a couple of PMs to answer, but I thought that I'd toss this out there, again...

  The main idea that I am trying to convey is that these cells are not really storage or holding cells,  but are permanently outputting what they receive, just like magnets.  It their inability to do so over time,  that makes it APPEAR AS IF they are draining, or losing power.
  Please, keep the analogy of the solar cell in mind, and don't look for how long the cell's charge lasts, but instead as how efficient they are being, at the time.  (100%, 60% etz).
  Most if not all batteries are affected or broken down for the same reasons. Galvanic or not.  All batteries break down, many times just due to their connections points which are exposed to the oxygen in the air.  Even if these cement cells as well as other cells were made absolutely dry, there would still be the oxygen in the air affecting them.  More so where I live. Right now (92% humidity, and high salt content in the air).
  It takes a different kind of thinking to understand a perpetual cell. And I do understand that nothing is forever.  Except who we really are.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #985 on: July 12, 2011, 01:39:19 AM »
  @ b_rads:
   Thank you for your PM.  I thought that I would post your video link here as well, for all to see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id3tL2iI0Vw
   This video does seam to have some merit and relation to what we are trying to understand. 
   In our case with the cells, I don't think that the reason that they function is mainly due to a galvanic chemical reaction, although there are some similarities when compared to galvanic batteries, and as to why they lose power. 
   

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #985 on: July 12, 2011, 01:39:19 AM »
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Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #986 on: July 12, 2011, 01:41:52 PM »
The Elmer's glue, potassium chloride, and Epsom salt cells are doing very well. These cells are placed on notebook paper and the notebook paper seems to absorb the water out and away from the cells. The crystals are drying very nicely. The best part of these cells is that they keep the voltage they start out with and take shorting out very well. They all start out around 560mV when first made and stay at that voltage even when they have dried. Giving them a load the voltage does go down but allowing the cell to rest brings the voltage back to where it was. The most amazing part of this cell is that it starts off at 560mV and when it dries it stays at 560mV, I never seen a cell do that. I also use copper and aluminium wires as my plates.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #987 on: July 12, 2011, 01:54:16 PM »
The Elmer's glue, potassium chloride, and Epsom salt cells are doing very well. These cells are placed on notebook paper and the notebook paper seems to absorb the water out and away from the cells. The crystals are drying very nicely. The best part of these cells is that they keep the voltage they start out with and take shorting out very well. They all start out around 560mV when first made and stay at that voltage even when they have dried. Giving them a load the voltage does go down but allowing the cell to rest brings the voltage back to where it was. The most amazing part of this cell is that it starts off at 560mV and when it dries it stays at 560mV, I never seen a cell do that. I also use copper and aluminium wires as my plates.

Very creative idea with the glue.  Does your output increase at all when placed in the sunlight or heated up a bit? Can these be placed in series or parallel?  Would the voltage increase if you made a large one?

Sorry for all of the questions but this is very interesting.

Bill

Offline ibpointless2

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #988 on: July 13, 2011, 02:31:30 AM »
Very creative idea with the glue.  Does your output increase at all when placed in the sunlight or heated up a bit? Can these be placed in series or parallel?  Would the voltage increase if you made a large one?

Sorry for all of the questions but this is very interesting.

Bill


Yes power does increase when placed in sunlight or heated by your hand. Yes they can be put in series and parallel. The voltage is setup by what metal you use and the amps depend on the size of your plates. The Epsom Salts and the notebook paper dries the cells out quickly leaving behind a very hard white/clear crystal. I have not made a big one yet but I doe expect that voltage and amps would increase with a bigger one, but bigger takes longer to dry. Cause the cells are on paper I can hand them up like clothes on a hanger (once they dry a little bit over night) so that I can fully get all the water out.

I'm taking a different approach with these power cells, I'm not after the crystals but instead after radioactivity. Don't worry its safe radiation, no more than what's in a banana. Speaking of Banana over at another forum (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7351-bedini-earth-light-25.html) there is talk of using a banana in one of the cells and it seems to working very well. Its about the ions not the electrons with these cell. Also other glues give different results but I use the white school glue, wood glue seems to work good too.

These cells that I have now seem to be taking to loads and shorts very well. They do drop in voltage when given a load but has so far found there way back to the original voltage.

Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #989 on: July 13, 2011, 06:40:39 AM »
G'day all.

Got home from work at 7:30 last night and by 8:30 had duplicated JH's cell from his video. I made one change and that was using germanium instead of galena. Using his ad hoc method I used 1 scoop ( tsp) RS, 2 scoops ES, pinch of calcium carbonate ( as powdered calcite), silver filings and Iron pyrites.
The test strip was primed with thick Sodium silicate.

Good fluid mix when hot, easy to work with. Initial voltage after a 12V charge was 1.54 volts. This of course reduced over time and was 1.47V after 18 minutes. The actual surface area of the copper and zinc electrodes was a mere 1.5 square mm so the cell cured and dried very quickly. The voltage recovery time after a short  was about 45 seconds. This cell was then placed on the data logger overnight. At 05:05 am the voltage was down to 1.05V but had stayed at that for the previous 7 hours.

I made a second test strip at the same time using the same batch of ingredients only this time I added 1 grain of copper sulphate. This had the effect of changing significantly the cells characteristics. The initial charge voltage was higher , 1.64V. It held this voltage for a short time and then dropped to below cell 1.  1.02V vis 1.16V after 1 hour.  The cell is highly temperature sensitive and seems to have a critical temperature of 19.1 oC where it's voltage rises sharply.

The copper sulphate cell was put on the load test.  I've described the rig in an earlier post but basically a 1.8Kohm load is switched across the cell for 7 seconds and then allowed to recover for 40 seconds and the cycle repeats. I ran the load test overnight. In the morning the voltage was 0.51V. Not bad for a cell so small. At that point I took it off the load test and let it recover. After 35 minutes it's voltage had recovered to 1.05V, the same as cell 1.
Cell 1 is now on the load test and I'll see the results of that tonight when I get home.

What I have just done is to verify JH methods and ingredients and they appear to work.

@ ib,  on 9th July I made a cell that contained 3.3g of powdered uranium glass. I thought the radiation bit would interest you.

The cell was a variation on the RS/ES cell and also contained pyrites and sodium silicate. The mix hardens to a tough ceramic and holds it's voltage well. The uranium content of the glass is about 2%. The cell has a very high internal resistance and the voltage drops to near zero under load but rebounds after a few seconds. It too is highly temperature sensitve. I cannot say for sure whether the uranium glass is aiding the voltage but it recovers faster than most cells that i have built. The radiation coming from it is about  20 times background so don't put it in your mouth. ;D

Ok thats about it for now, I'll have more results tomorrow.

Keep at it guys.

regards  Ian.

 

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