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Author Topic: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison  (Read 480442 times)

Offline Nihilanth

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2008, 08:29:40 AM »
I also thought of using carbon, but i didn't know about the whole semiconductive thing, I was thinking something more along the lines of a carbon nanotube formation... or something would happen. Until I know where I can find clinker, because I already have some silica gel (and don't have to pay for it), I'm going to try it first. As for Bismuth, I remember reading a few things about it having odd piezoelectrical properties, and I figured it might be worth adding it one time to see how it effects it. It's the main ingredient in Pepto-Bismol.

I've got a whole list of things I'm going to try, or want to try, but can't find a cheap source. I don't even really remember why for most of them.
Feldspar - Bon Ami Cleaning Powder
Silicon - Silica Gel
Aluminum - Aluminum foil
Calcite - Chalk
Carbon - Graphite
Zeolite - Aquarium Zeolite Cartridges
Table Salt
Epsom Salt
Rochelle Salt
Quinine - Tonic water
Silicon Carbide - Waterproof Sandpaper Sheet
Soda Ash
Sodium hydroxide - Lye soap
Zinc oxide - Zinc Oxide Ointment
Lanthanum -  Fosrenol chewable tablet
Polyvinyl Fluoride - Insulation Repair & Fabrication Tape
Lithium carbonate
Barium Titanate

Lead Monoxide
Tungsten carbide

Is there a reason for the aspirin? I know I'm not exactly a good source of explainations myself, but It sounds like you actually have a plan. The use of urine reminded me of something about herapathite, but I'm too tired and can't remember what it was.

Offline Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2008, 12:58:21 PM »
Hmmm... I like the Zeolite suggestion.
The only problem I have with it is that Zeolite is yet another one of those substances that is not
really one specific substance, but rather a whole family of variations of a substance.
The whole family of known variants consists of about 50 different chemical compounds.
So if you're talking about Zeolite, which exact Zeolite are you talking about?
(for some more info, see )
I mean, just fyi, zeolite of unknown type is used in those aquarium cartridges Nihilanth suggested,
but zeolite is also a main ingredient in most laundry/washing powders, as well as the compound
used in kitty litter to capture the smells... And it is used in water decalcinators...

I'm going to try to get hold of some from a nearby pool and warer-cleaning company, their variant
is probably a form of zeolite known as Clinoptilolite, with specific chemical formula
(Na,K,Ca)2-3Al3(Al,Si)2Si13O36 (12 aq) or in other words (Na/K/Ca)2-3 + Al3(Al/Si)2 + 13 SiO2 + 12 H2O.
I'm hoping to be able to get a variation with as little K and Ca as possible, as that will connect better with
the mix I have at the moment, which already contains sodium silicate as well (from the waterglass, thanks Jeanna ;)).
It also contains quite a bit of silver sand which is quite pure quartz sand, so there's quite a bit of SiO2 in there already...
The Zeolite might just bind this together better than the boiling waterglass did... while not altering the mix composition
too much.
Indeed, adding mica is a good idea. But keep an eye on the exact type of mica used.
And here too, I feel I need to point out that Mica is a term used for a family of substances, which share
characterisitics. This family consists of several types of mica, generally classified as hard or brittle micas.
A quick grab of different mica types: Lepidolite (hard), Phlogopite, Biotite, Zinnwaldite, Clintonite (brittle), Muscovite,
Phengite. More types are known.
Some micas are very hard, others are quite brittle, and some are fine grained and occur in clays.
Some micas are found as relatively large sheets and/or layered rocks, and as scrap- and flake-mica. These latter two
are also common constituents in many rock and sediment types. Granite is one of the many rock types mica can be
found in. The most common variations of mica have a chemical composition akin to:
(Na/K/Ca)2 (Al/Mg/Fe)4-6 (Si/Al)8 O20 (OH/F)4. As you can see, the room for variation in that is already quite large.
But even if we ignore the fact that even more variations are possible with elements of Li, Ba, Rb, Cs, Cr, Mn, Ti, etc,
we can recognise some similarities... The Na/K/Ca base for example, which seems to be quite common in silicate compounds.

I'm not so sure about the quinine in Nihilanths list, but then again I'm a little doubful on the aspirin in Ians experiment too. :)
Taking a wee in your ceramic mix however is completely natural, of course. ;D lol

Offline Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2008, 06:00:50 PM »
Here's a few pics of one of my most recent cells.
It's one of the cells containing 30-40% silver sand (quartz sand, mostly SiO2)
in a mix I was using before. Mainly a mix of several silicates,
mostly concentrated waterglass, with some other random silicate compounds
as well as some sludge from the previous mix, which was basically the same
but with several natural rock samples crused to powder and mixed in.
For comparison in both size and voltage I'll stick in a pic of a reading on a normal
alkaline 1.5 volt battery.
Enjoy. ;D

Kind regards,

Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2008, 12:15:22 AM »
G'day all,

@Koen : Way to go mate, that's a healthy looking voltage you got there. What is it's current output?
            So far the P Cell is mainly galvanic and it gives 1.01V @ 22mA but reduces very quickly down to about 2mA. We'll see what it does when it dries out. If ever you have seen aspirin crystals growing you will see they are very dynamic and have the ability to bind small particles together. The hope was that I could create a neutral barrier between the crushed silicates  and the alkali mix using the acidic properties of aspirin. Then use a polarizing voltage to set up the bias. I'm letting this one harden at room temp, I don't want to decompose any of the chemistry with heat. I'll let you know how it turns out.

At this time I'm running out of supplies and this is slowing me down. :(
Roll on next payday.

Koen thanks again for all the valuable info you have provided.

Anyway I'm off to crush my last bits of calcite and pyrites and I'll be looking in on old Stubblefield,
I've just realized something. Houston we have a connection  ;D

all the best   Ian

Offline Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2008, 02:00:39 AM »

to be honest the current of that cell is a bit disappointing, but I need to do some more testing to be sure.
If I short it, the voltage drops to zero and only occasional fluctuations of max 4 mV can be seen, but when
I remove the short the voltage rebuilds in a few minutes time...
I'll test it some more, and try it with a proper little resistor instead of only a short.
Although there doesn't deem to be much amperage (as far as I've tested this one, which is not a lot ;)),
the voltage is at least getting somewhere. Now I'm going to try to raise the (semi)conductivity by adding
more metal (salts) and/or reducing the hydrogen and oxygen content of the silica mix...
I'm hoping an increased conductivity will increase amperage.

But of course this cell needs to be left alone in a quiet place for a while, shorted, to see if it still performs
the same after a month or so.

Ian, what equipment do you use to generate the high voltage you apply to your "cookies"?

see you around :)

Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2008, 02:42:50 AM »

I bought a very powerful bug zapper, the ones that fry flies when they hit the mesh. It puts out 2.2Kv.
I'm not game enough to try and measure it's current.  Also I am using an air ionizer (6000V) and it;s current is only uA. But as I have found out ( the cell in the plastic tub) a mean charge accumulates at the boundary and when I tried to move it, it knocked be backwards. It had enough charge to jump the insulation on an electrical screwdriver. So far the damn thing is holding half my kitchen hostage  ;D ;D

It looks like we are getting very similar results ( respectable voltage but little current). A large surface area p-n junction is what we need I think.

Well Koen even if your cell won't power a motor (yet  ;)) it still looks bloody impressive.


Offline Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #81 on: February 19, 2008, 06:37:57 PM »

after spending an evening amusing myself by watching all Hutchison Cell related videos I know once more,
I want to ask you where you got the info that H uses clinker... I only know one video that shows him
demonstrate his "dirt cheap" method (the "invent this!" tv footage), and in that video I can't really see
the pebble he picks up very clearly. It seems to be a whiteish little rock, sort of the colour of pale concrete...
But in the video where he shows his large "artillery shell" sized cells, where he explains that those very large ones
only put out about 0,5V, he also shows what he refers to in the "invent this!" video as "the Blob":
a solidified puddle of silicate material with several fingertip-sized pieces of different rocks embedded in it.
Now that video has a better resolution, and the "blob" clearly contains several different types of rock.
He only pins the multimeter probe down on one specific spot though, so that could mean only that particular
rock or that specific region of the blob has voltage, and the rest doesn't or much lower... Or it could mean
he just happens to randomly stick his multimeter probe, and it has nothing to do with the rock at that location at all.

Oh, and when you say "clinker", you are talking about the "clinker" used in concrete and cement mixing, right?

Furthermore, in the "invent this!" footage, Hutchison can be seen crushing a few rocks into powder, then adding his "secret
chemicals", and then mixing them in an old newspaper. When he is busy crushing the rocks, you can see him crush a rock
that looks whiteish, probably the pebble we see him pick up on the street, but on the newspaper on his lap we can see what
looks like crushed dark (near black?) stone. I am not certain about this, but that's what it looks like on my screen.
Can anyone confirm the colour of the rocks he uses in that video?
Are they indeed whiteish and blackish rocks? Are they clinker types or are they more like mica?

Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #82 on: February 19, 2008, 11:52:31 PM »
hi Koen,

Same as you, I've watched those videos over and over. A closer look at the blob will reveal that some of the rocks are clinker. By coincidence the front garden bed and surround outside my local electronics shop has exactly the same stuff. Dark brown to rusty coloured clinker and greyish rocks of a similar nature. I think the reason he uses the clinker is because it contains many fused silicates, iron, aluminium, magnesium and good ol quartz. Also if you look closely at the blob you will see that it has been painted or sprayed in parts, I think with a conductive material, aluminium paint or something.. And the whole thing seems to be set in a block of plaster of paris. Listen to the clunck it makes when he puts it down.  Yes I believe the clinker is the same as that used in concrete.

JH makes a reference to exotic silicates when he picks up the white stone, that in itself is a massive clue. I spent most of last evening reading up on the different subclasses of silicates , I'll get you the web site shortly.  The thing I noticed was that the more "exotic" the silicate the greater the negative charge it had in the crystal structure, most were -3 and some at -5 . Enter pyrites, that sits at -4 along with many other common sulphides.
As you know the aluminium cans he puts his mix into have a valence charge of +3. I can see now why JH is looking for the more exotic silicates to get the greatest potential between the molecules.
This brings me to a question I was going to ask you. Or at least a point I'd like your thoughts on.

I've been using aluminium cans to make the cells and I get a voltage of some sort every time. But I suddenly realised that the Al cans would have been naturally coated with aluminium oxide, which is a darn good insulator. Have you ever prep'd your Al cans or tubes to get rid of the oxide? Doing that may increase our current output. :)

Back to his blob for a moment, I have seen 3 different videos of JH demonstrating his blob and each time he puts the prob on the same point and who knows what the other prob is attatched to because we never get to see the back of it, so I'm assumming it must be a metal plate embedded in the base.
As with all of JH's videos I think he is just giving us rough examples, as with the blob, I don't beleive that all the rocks in it actually do anything. Mostly for show.

His referrence to Thomas Moray is probably the most significant clue.  I think we both worked out pretty early on that the rock battery was a complexed form of diode or rectifier. I think what we are trying to achieve is a battery mix made up of millions of diodes all aligned the same way.
The voltage created by the silicates,peizo or petro ) and rectification by adjacent sulphides,pyrites or galena. All these were used in Morays experiments. Your charge diagrams ( which I think are spot on) may be the blue print for such a device.
I have had some success with making the anode a copper oxide junction.

At the moment I am crushing up as much iron pyrites as I can find ( hard work  ;D ).

I'll get back to you shortly Koen with that web address.


Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2008, 12:07:51 AM »
Hi Koen

Try this web site.

Very good info here.



Offline Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2008, 12:09:04 PM »
Thanks for that info Ian, very usefull :)

Oh, and about the aluminium cans/tubes/cylinders;
Yes, in most cases I make very certain that there is no isolating layer on the inside of my cans/pipes.
Common aluminium cans, like RedBull cans for example, most often don't actually have an aluminium oxide
layer because aluminium if ingested in large enough quantities can lead to serious (infant) growth defects
and other poisonous phenomena, so they want to keep it out of the food chain as much as possible.
Most of the time some thin plastic type film is used on the inside of food/beverage cans. This is usually
quite a tought material, and I have sanded many an aluminium can down with sandpaper on the inside.
Also, pure aluminium pipes/tubes will indeed form an oxide layer in air, if they don't have an isolating layer.
This oxide film is usually extremely thin, just a couple of atoms thick. But it isolates the aluminium from the
air completely.
Often, such merely oxidised aluminium does not actually need to be treated before use. First of all because
no matter how often you sand down the oxide layer, another will form unless you sand it down in an argon
atmosphere or something like that, and most people don't have these lying around ;)
And second because the chemical reactions involved (consider sodium hydroxide, borax, sodium carbonate,
or simply boiling silicic acid) tend to easily overcome the low oxidation energy and simply absorb the oxide
and meld with it. But of course this depends a little on how much you want your mix to absorb aluminium...

In any case, yes I do often sand down the aluminium and other metal tubes/cans I use, especially if the can
is visibly or tangiably coated in some foreign material (on the inside). When I say "sand down", I mean I
remove that inner layer somehow, often using a corrosive material and actual hands-on scrubbing with coarse
material, or by applying a blowtorch and burning the plastic off. But in most cases simply using good sand
paper works fine.
I have been doing so ever since I found that can oatings can indeed have great influence on the chemical reactions
and electrical properties, during my early experiments.

hope that helps? ;)

Offline sutra

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2008, 03:47:48 PM »
Hi guys,
what you are achieving is pritty amazing....I'll start soon my experiments too...meanwhile have a look at this pages on how to make low temperature electro-conductive may help.


Sutra :D

this is what they claim:

ELECTRO CONDUCTIVE CERAMIC COMPOSITION Normal ceramics based on aluminum oxide, silicon, dioxide, various clays and other alumosilicates, i. e., standard types of ceramic materials, have a very high electric resistance and practically do not conduct an electric current.

Only special type ceramic materials such as carbides of titanium, tungsten, molybdene, gafnium and some other metals, nitrides or silicides of some metals, barium titanate and some other compositions have a relatively low electric resistance. For the production of carbides, silicides or nitrides of metals with a high melting temperature there are needed high temperature furnaces, a special gaseous atmosphere (without oxygen and some other gases), and in many cases high pressures and also special precautions.

Preparation of various technical parts from this type of electroconductive ceramic is also very complicated.

For this reason prices of electroconductive ceramics are high and the use of them is restricted and their use for simple applications such as heating and home applications is very limite.

SUBJECT OF THE INVENTION The invention relates to the production of electro-conductive ceramics by using a configuration of graphite or other high-carbon content materials, such as carbon black, coke, etc., with soluble silicates, sodium fluoro-silicates and fillers such as: quartz, powdered sand, clays, fly ashes, talc, aluminum oxide, mineral carbonates, cements, etc.

These compositions react after compacting and treatment at temperatures of between 50?C to 200?C to obtain high strength ceramic materials with an eiectric resistance of less than 0.1 ohm/cm2 and up to 2000 mega ohm/cm2 and higher. As additives for better electrical properties can be used metal oxides of zinc (ZnO), manganese (MnO2), copper (CuO), titanium (TiO2), iron (Fe203, FeO, Fe304), cobalt (CoO, C02,03), etc. For good mechanical properties to the composition, before pressing water of about 5%-10% (weight) can be advantageously added. Heat treatments have to be for a sufficient time for the reaction (several hours) to take place.

The following examples are illustrative only.

The preferred content of carbon containing materials is about 18 to 30 weight-%; the silicates are used at a concentration of from about 15 to 40 weight-%, preferably 20 to 30 weight-%.

The fluorosilicates are used in a quantity of from about 15 to 40 weight-%.

The fillers are used in a quantity of from about 15 to 50 weight-% in powdered form, and preferably at 20 to 40 weight-%.

The concentration of the metal oxides is about 6 to 40 weight-%, and preferably 15 to 30 weight-%. When additives are used, these are used in a quantity of up to about 2 weight-%.

Examples Example No. 1: 22g Bentonite-powder of 20-30 micron, 50g sodium metasilicate, pentahydrate, powder <40 micron, 25g graphite powder &lt;10 micron, 6g potassium fluorosilicate, powder 10-40 micron, 18g zinc oxide, powder <40 micron, are mixed, pressed and dried in an oven with gradual temperature increase from 402C to 110?C. After cooling a ceramic with electro conductivity of 20 ohm/cm2 was obtained.

Example No. 2: 30g albite powder, 20-50 micron; 60g sodium silicate octahydrate powder of 150 micron, 30 g. coke powder, <50 micron; 20 g. manganese dioxide, powder-<60 micron, 8g. sodium fluorosilicate, powder >40 micron, 0.3 g Dow- fax (nonionic, surface active), 60g water are mixed together, pressed and dried in an oven with a gradual temperature increase from 50?C to 120pic for 8 hours. After cooling a ceramic with electroconductivity of 120 ohm/cm2 was obtained.

Example No. 3: 30g talc powder-<30 micron; 40g fly ash powder <20 micron; 45g sodium silicate powder, >60 micron; 10g sodium lauryl sulphate; 6g sodium fluorosilican powder->60 micron, 30g carbon black powder, <20 micron, titanium dioxide powder <30 micron are mixed together, pressed and heated during 9 hours with gradual temperature increase from 60?C to 120?C.

After cooling a ceramic with 68 ohm/cm2 was obtained.

Generally, depending on the nature of the compounds used, the pressure was from 200 kg/cm2 to 900 kg/cm2, and preferably the pressure was 400-600 kg/cm2. The obtained ceramics are used for various heating applications, such as floor heating, home heating, heating of greenhouses, chicken coups and cow sheds, houses, industrial drying and heating, etc. from 0?C to 250'C.

The mechanical strength of novel ceramic materials is generally between about 80kg/cm2 to 400 kg/cm2, in most cases between 180-250 kg/cm2.

The conductivity can be varied from <0.01 ohm/cm2 to >20 megahm/cm2.

Offline Koen1

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #86 on: February 26, 2008, 06:57:12 PM »
Hey thanks for that link, Sutra. :)
I already knew of this type of ceramic, but I didn't have this url yet.

Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #87 on: February 26, 2008, 10:04:27 PM »
G'Day all,

@Sutra:  Thanks for the info, food for thought  :)

Should have 50gms of Gallium by the end of the week, so I can go ahead with the electrode prepping theory.
Quick update on the "pie". It was shorted for 72 hours. Instantly came back to 0.25V and rose to 0.415V after 3 hours. At this time the voltage is still increasing at about 0.002V per hour. I expect it to settle at around 0.5V by the end of the day.

@jeanna: As our cement expert  ;D what do you think about Sutra's info?

Catch you all later.


Offline sutra

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #88 on: February 26, 2008, 11:06:00 PM »
reading your experiences, I had an idea...
to align properly the platlets of conductor (I'm gonna try with graphite) I want to use finely powdered (I'm a gem cutter) hematite which has its Ne?l temperature just about 250?C (is the temperature which am antimagnetic material turn paramagnetic) using a strong magnetic field (a magnet) or a coil of conductor around the pipe during crystallisation...

Did you ever try to crystallize your cookies avoiding a wet method?

I'll try to mix pure quartz dust, borax, graphite and hematite or rust and bake all at 400?C and let slowly cool in a magnetic field.....I'll let you know if some come out....

I wonder...


Offline ian middleton

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #89 on: February 26, 2008, 11:36:48 PM »
Hi Sutra,

All our "cookies" (well mine at least) used the wet method, this is because they had to crystalize in an aqueous solution. ie all the binding ingredients are water soluble.

When you make your cell ( good choice of ingredients) please keep a record of the ratios used. There are a million and one different combinations we can use, you may just find the right one. Yes please keep us posted  :)

400C , what will you be using to achieve that temperature?

Kind regards