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Author Topic: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison  (Read 424001 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1005 on: October 03, 2011, 10:55:39 PM »
  @ Fauto:
  You are using an electrolyte, the wet paper towel. 
   If you did not need an electrolyte you can just have the two metals touching, but that is not the case.
  We are working towards a dry, solid electrolyte, instead of the wet paper towel, which only makes for a wet galvanic cell, causing the same oxidation process. Sealing the cell with glue only slows the reaction. 

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1005 on: October 03, 2011, 10:55:39 PM »

Offline plengo

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1006 on: October 03, 2011, 11:54:38 PM »
  @ Fauto:
  You are using an electrolyte, the wet paper towel. 
   If you did not need an electrolyte you can just have the two metals touching, but that is not the case.
  We are working towards a dry, solid electrolyte, instead of the wet paper towel, which only makes for a wet galvanic cell, causing the same oxidation process. Sealing the cell with glue only slows the reaction.

You might be right. I am testing if the oxidized layer will really work. It needs some form of electrolyte so water is the one in the test. So technically I am using electrolyte.

If the oxidation really avoids corrosion it may be a good solution. Time will tell just like it is telling me with all my tests. This is my 34 formula so I am really observing the real thing.

Fausto.

Offline b_rads

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1007 on: October 04, 2011, 08:54:08 PM »
You might be right. I am testing if the oxidized layer will really work. It needs some form of electrolyte so water is the one in the test. So technically I am using electrolyte.

If the oxidation really avoids corrosion it may be a good solution. Time will tell just like it is telling me with all my tests. This is my 34 formula so I am really observing the real thing.

Fausto.

Fausto - Love your work and your vids are exceptional.  You are exactly right that the oxidation layer will protect your anode.  Regardless what happens between the metals, the metals themselves will not be sacraficed.  Attached is an illustration of work I started back in June and continue to work with.  The ?????? layer can be made to be replaced as it gets totally consumed.  Many very inexpensive materials work very well.  You are on the right track in my opinion.
 :) Brad S

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1007 on: October 04, 2011, 08:54:08 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1008 on: October 09, 2011, 08:20:37 AM »
Brad:

This is exactly why I used magnesium and carbon for my earth battery that is still alive after 3 years, although, not continuous use.  It is somewhat galvanic but not totally and puts out about 2 volts and 20 mA's.

Bill

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1009 on: October 10, 2011, 05:12:06 AM »
    Bill and All:
   Somewhat galvanic is a good way to put it.  I do know what you might mean by that.
 As always, if a cell lasts a long time...even if its running on pure water... Like this Japanese guy has just invented a new water cell, of several different sizes. that Just uses water in the cell and can light leds very bright.
   Nothing to do with the JH cells, just thought to say that even water has a place.

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1009 on: October 10, 2011, 05:12:06 AM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1010 on: October 14, 2011, 04:06:45 PM »
 IBpointless,

 I have great admiration for your tenacity. You have really shaken my world. That water video explained it all. Think about what is happening in his description and the video of the action. He said it is like they organize and form a crystal. Now think about the differences between the materials. He said hydrophobic and non hydrophobic. What if the base crystals we are using are hydrophobic but the surface is non hydrophobic, wouldn't they stick together. As the moisture leaves the cell it locks in the lattice. Like nano bubbles interconnected. As the bulk water is depleted it is solidifying the actual crystal lattice.
Although I believe it needs some water in the process, It is as you say the ultimate solvent. The crystal lattice that is left on the metals surface is the contact point or the only direct contact anything can have. But this crystal has surface area and a lot of it!. This crystal can be made to swing either way and on the fly. This crystal has a high resolution. It is En-mass. Drying it out would only be an outside thing. It needs to be mobile inside of it. It can grow in power as well. Think of it as your muscle in your arm. The more you use it the stronger it becomes. Feed it and it will grow.

 I am curious if you have ever saw a huge alum crystal? think of a quadrillion individual, very mobile, Ultimate resolution versions of that pyramidal crystals. I believe the base shape for borax is a very interesting one to say the least. Also If you check the wiki here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borax .

 Under Putty heading you will see that adding Elmers glue or polyvinyl alcohol to the borax makes Flubber. Hmmm interesting why they call it flubber. So I believe you have something very different there. Think of it as all of these little mobile crystals being locked into a flubber casing after they line up via the potential difference of the metals alone. Add just a tiny bit of vibration and you start a cascade of wiggling little electric lighter crystals all bumping and imparting electric charge to their neighbors. The metals help to maintain the flow of charges into your batteries. And it is highly based off of area presented to the water that is in the system. That is the main carrier and as the crystal dries further it grows in strength because it is compressing the inner fluidic crystals by the creation of the drier material structure. I believe charges are nothing more then infinite masses of crystals that are much smaller then even the solids at that level.

 There is no need to go beyond what we can see now because it is all a fractal, it all looks the same. But being able to look further in is by no means impossible and should be explored.

 Here also I wanted to chat with you about shorting the cell out as it grows. This might be a better way to grow strength into the cell as it is forming. Also working them out does in fact strengthen them.

 To get back to the actual crystal cells, I think they grow as well as they are being used. This growth is in the organizing of the crystalline material we are adding to the solvent. And I'm sorry to tell you crystals have tons of surface area. Even inside of the lattice. Conduction is through out the entire lattice and not just on the plane surface we see on the outside. If it has a face to the shear of the single unit in the lattice it has a charge on it. With each surface can have a difference in charge as well that after time will balance to the unit. That is the whole premise of what and how these crystals work. If you line them up and lock them in place through a phase change, much like the process of creating a magnet, then don't you have a new kind of magnet?

 I'm now wondering if this is an electrete in it's purist form. Hmmm..

 I also wanted to ask if anyone has ever exposed these cells to an exciter field?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 07:00:13 PM by jbignes5 »

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1011 on: October 14, 2011, 07:15:54 PM »
 Another very interesting reveal is what is this flubber: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flubber_(material) .

 So what we have here is crystals encased into a gelatinous matrix. Think of it as minute guitar strings. They are attached to each oxide face and conduct all motions into a voltage via a vibratory channel connected via small aligned crystals within the gelatinous material. When any activity is received via the strings they conduct by stretching apart then contracting together causing the string to compact and pulse a charge one way twords the metal electrode.

 It sound to me like this is something entirely different then the crystal batteries that the others are talking about but they seem to work on the same base principles just in different mediums.

 Also when talking about oxides one might want to check this wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covellite . It is interesting that someone chose pyrite as a dopant.

 Another good question is, has anyone sent this to be checked out microscopically? It would help tons to get it checked out for it's smaller unit structure. If this is forming just another phase of the structure at it's purest form then Knowing the geometry at this level could help tons if we analyse it's shape and form. Remember two fields crossing at 90 degrees do not interfere with each other. That works for longitudinal waves as well. A longitudinal wave is merely a streaming  wave. You can think of it as little fire hoses. What happens when you max out a fire hose and it gets loose. Now think of millions of them all attached to a source and organized into a crystal lattice. Of course all those hoses when crammed together don't flail to much except further away from the source. Further away there is more room to flail.

 The water experiment showed us this action by including a dye. This allowed us to see the action without interrupting the process much. I suspect this is how our atmosphere works. After all we breathe a fluid, it's just less dense then water and it has a lot of bulk in it.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 01:33:34 AM by jbignes5 »

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1011 on: October 14, 2011, 07:15:54 PM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1012 on: October 16, 2011, 03:51:29 PM »
 Another interesting find is this wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_of_crystallization .

 So water in all intense and purpose is the foundation of the crystalline structure. But only as the base alignment component. The structure that is left after the water has left is what we are seeing in these batteries. These batteries grow in strength because they are still wet inside. As they dry they form more structure and this is the growth we are seeing.

 I just wanted to revisit that these cells do not like our energy field. When they are growing they should be shorted out or near that with a resistor, and be left alone. Once a good amount of crystallization is formed then we can expose them to our field without much deformation of it's internal lattice. This might help them top grow properly when they are youngest. The length of time should be experimented with in order to get the proper time for a solid base structure. Think of it as the cells immune system.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2011, 04:41:34 PM by jbignes5 »

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1013 on: October 18, 2011, 05:30:15 PM »
 I just wanted to post this here:

"See nick the thing with the captret was where we are now with the batteries. We investigated it and looked for the simularities. It was a stepping stone to our understanding of the process. Even in the captret the internal components are very similar to what we have in our current study of the crystal batteries. Although in my results my batteries stopped going down in voltage and held steady at the voltage they stopped at. All the while giving light through an led. The problem from then on was that the captret could not lock in the polarization we needed. These batteries can do that!

 Will they be anything but a potential supply is how ingenious we become with the process. If we treat it like a fluid (energy,charge) and compress it, it will squirt out with more force. But we need a better understanding of the process then we currently know now. One thing is clear. There are pockets of no movement in this charge. It is a fluid like substance and the attraction is greater the higher you go in potential. We should be able to apply tube technology to this process. Meaning the static potential alone can become a steering mechanism. with that steering mechanism we need to design a generation section to harness that flow. Maybe like a laser beam hitting crystal tips surrounded in a metal pickup ring much farther away relatively speaking. this ring could be closed ended and encrusted with crystals to increase the generation capability but you need to remember it will be massed based. More mass of the electrode the higher the potential it will attain and the higher the resistance to flow backwards.

 Remember I said that the gentle breeze we are playing with here is very light. It's resistance to back flow is very little. Since we are enveloping the center electrode with a metal mass it is creating a static bubble. The crystal lattice that forms twords the center is an amplifier of the outer potential in twords the inner electrode. With the depletion zone in the crystals having a two way conduit this means we have a diode in the truest sense. It's a different kind of diode. A static diode or battery with amplifying effect of the static potential. The oscillator in our case is the led (external) and the capacitance of the battery (internal) guided but the light emitted from the diode.

 I am starting to think that the depletion zone needs to be connected to the outside world. It is the entrance of the outside potential to the whole device. I am thinking we need another layer of metal on this to work properly. So there would be an outside cup(external shield), a middle ring (depletion zone conductor or in) and a center electrode to collect the amplified potential (or out). You could think of the outside conductor as being the negative with the center most conductor being the positive. The energy or charges enter the device via the depletion zone and separate via the diode like formations in the cell. With the outside having the static potential of the environment and the internal conductor having a multiple value of the external. Lets say 1000 to 1. So if the ambient voltage level is say 1 micro volt then the internal value will be very near 1k micro volt. This is simply a Tesla switch in solid form. It uses the same potential of positive and compares one voltage to the other via wires to use for a load. The main problem now is how to increase this event and make it stronger. Maybe metal screening in the depletion layer would do that. It could be what the dopants are doing but there isn't enough of the dopants to make this a strong result.

 Sorry to have high jacked your thread JouleSeeker but the idea just came to me lol.

 Yeah I'm afraid Nick that Energetic forum is nothing but a targeted sales tool. Buck the system of that and you get removed. No problem."

 I'm thinking this is how a Joe cell works. Once the electrolytic medium gets polarized it runs pretty well.

 I think what we need to do is make a vortex like flairs for the entrance potential. I will try to draw one up and post it.

 This is what I came up with the central portion of the cell without the flairs:

 http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p171/jbignes5/crystalbattery.jpg

 My thinking is to use the battery like a diode with a certain amount of mass for the antenna it will allow for a better conduction of the ambient waves and allow for a stronger push of the waves. It could be that we could hook funnels to each end of the mesh and get a better conduction that way without having to use antennas. But I suggest that antennas or bigger masses of potential would be optimum for a bigger build.

 My thoughts on the depletion zone are quite confused right now. I'm thinking it is the in of the cell, hence my comment on the gentle breeze we are seeing and the major reason we are only seeing very little current. I'm leaning twords increasing the flow is merely a conduction problem over a certain area. In our setup the entrance is only on one side with very little area to accept incoming ambient charges hence the lower output.

 What if we start thinking of this like this:

 We are submerged in a fluid like energy with the same results like in water. We create a void through static shielding of this energy and collect the flow of the surrounding energy going into that load through holes we poke in the static shielding. Since our matrix is formed and rigid (crystal lattice) it steers this energy to focus on the internal electrode. Following fluidic laws when ever you try to compress the flow it becomes more forceful but less of the actual energy comes through but has a higher potential per square area to balance that. We see this event in everything we do, from power washers to hydraulics.

 From my earlier attemps to understand this energy I have found out that at the root is a single sided diode. A mono crystalline diode if you will. They move via of the geometry of their crystalline shape. There seems to be 3 different versions of the crystals or charge vehicles. All based off of the basic crystalline shape (pyramidal). all three share these properties they are just formed in different configurations. Two being singular with the potential going through the same structure in opposite ways, commonly called positive and negative. The third kind of crystal is the Ying and Yang style or dipole. It have both kinds in a double ended fashion. Although this vehicle is still one way they align base to base forming a tetrahedron with the in being in the middle of the bases. I believe this depletion zone is the tetrahedron crystals and the other two crystals form at either side of them creating a difference in potential.

 The singular crystals are very interesting indeed. They are based on much smaller crystals that align to form the structure. My favorite explanation is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sierpinski_triangle . If you go to the section: Analogues in higher dimensions you will see the two different kind of formations. One being positive and the other being negative. If you flip one crystal you will see that they form a one way diode while having both the positive and negative oriented in the same flow direction. You can also click on the picture and get a better high resolution to see the build method.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 06:58:42 PM by jbignes5 »

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1013 on: October 18, 2011, 05:30:15 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1014 on: October 18, 2011, 07:29:20 PM »
  The captret is not like these cells, it does not work, at all. These cell do, and can be tied to the oscillators as a working power source.
  The problem with using cells to power the oscillator is that the output will drop in time due to the hydrogen gas build up inside all the cells. This creates a higher impedance and resistance that is not being resolved, and is the reason that all cells will show a drop in running output over time. The oscillators can help to a degree, as they don't use much of the tiny current that is produced by the cells, in order to light the leds. But the issue of rising additional internal impedance levels due to the hydrogen gas build up inside the cell is still unresolved as yet. The stronger the cell is the more hydrogen is produced, this hydrogen is then causing the oxidation and breaking down of the anode metal materials by combining with the air and making water, which is causing further oxidation.  If the cells are sealed hermetically air can't get in, but hydrogen gas bubbles are still being produced inside the cell, and this is not allowing the ions to flow through the anode, as they once did. 
  John Bedini has made a replication of the Hutchinson cell, and has mentioned that it died weeks ago.  John is now working with the semiconductor cells similar to ones that have been sent to him by Walter Reid. Which are hermetically sealed, use no water or liquids of any sort, and are not galvanic in nature, and can maintain a running voltage level without dropping.  That is the direction most of us will probably be taking, if it really does function as stated. Time will tell.
  The combination of the use of the oxcillator circuits with the cells still seams like the best way to maintain the proper working levels for both the cells are well as the oscillators.
   I don't believe in OU as that is a misnomer and does not exist.  What can be used instead is,  using one form of energy to make a more usable form. No violation of the norms, there.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1015 on: October 18, 2011, 09:02:50 PM »
  Sorry for the error, it is Marcus Reid, not Walter Reid.  Didn't mean to confuse.

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1015 on: October 18, 2011, 09:02:50 PM »
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Offline jbignes5

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1016 on: October 18, 2011, 11:25:55 PM »
 I totally agree with you here nick. The water is kinda the first step. It allows a structure to be made with what resides in the water while the crystall is is that aligned water. But after that structure is made there is little use for the water. That is why we use salts because they desiccate after a period of time. After a certain growing time of the crystal structure the environment should be controlled. Meaning we need to evacuate it from the process. In some of the experiments this was used but I think it needs to be more controlled. Once the structure is formed I doubt water helps one bit in the process. It might raise the conduction path slightly but I think it is only tearing down some structure and rebuilding it with a higher potential of the cell. You will always need some water in this system. I think it is only how well the water is contained in the structure.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1017 on: October 19, 2011, 06:08:01 AM »
 BTW:  Ibpointless just has shown a video of his new crystal cell with a starting current reading higher than anyone has gotten yet. It does drop under load, but still an amazing output from just using a 3 inch long piece of thin copper pipe, some mg ribbon, and his crystal mix.

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1018 on: October 19, 2011, 02:36:34 PM »
 where is the link?

 Ok I found it.

 Nice current. But something is really not right with the battery. Did you see how the amperage fell on that. Wow I just said amperage and Not micro amps. Heh, I wonder how many of them he can stack in parallel and see what that thing can do? One possible problem in the current not being so stable could be that the crystal structure is too weak to handle a direct short. The structure will melt back into a slurry and destroy it's internal structure. We might need to look for another crystal to form the bulk or increase the size of the unit to allow more current with less self destruction. Is this the same mixture? Or possible we can parallel enough of them to handle a direct short type of load without much self destruction. Then we only need to have a Battery management system much like the lifepo batteries. This would help to maintain the structure of the cells on an individual basis. Maybe even build in a self heal function that brings back a damaged cell. We can work with the limitations by inserting some logic circuits to help keep the cells healthy.

 One thing that I have been seeing is that there is a certain geometry that works. It has to be round. This is because the energy from the surrounding environment will leak into the battery from all around it. With the crystal matrix that is forming it fits pretty well. It seems to be compressing twords the inner conductor and the different metals keep a slight pressure or constant flow by virtue of the potential differences of the metals.

 One other thought I had about the lowering of the current is that it could be like when we break our bones or tear a muscle. The healing process creates a stronger connection while it is healing that break. This process might work to strengthen the cell as it ages, much like our muscles show so eloquently. But there are limits to the structure we are using and that is closely tied to the melting point of the crystalline structure. reach that point and it will degrade, let it rest(short it) and it heals by virtue of the natural flow we have setup here.

 Back to the BMS idea. This system will have to be provided to help manage the structure of these batteries. There will have to be done some tests to figure that point out. Like regular batteries they have a range that will maintain the battery for a useful life. They usually call this the c20 value. With these new batteries I suggest we monitor the current and batteries and figure where that c20 value is and use that in the bms to provide a healthy battery for longer times with a more useful lifespan.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 03:55:51 PM by jbignes5 »

Offline NickZ

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Re: Crystal Power CeLL by John Hutchison
« Reply #1019 on: October 19, 2011, 05:30:39 PM »
  The main problem with all these cells is the internal impedance factor. The resistance and impedance are the cause of the detriment in output.
And according to JB this can be helped by placing the cells in parallel instead of series, and using an efficient oscillator like the Hartley oscillator on the parallel connected array of cells.  This is because the impedance of each cell when in series will add up along with the others cells and increase with each added cell. Not so when in parallel.
  I'll have to try this myself today to see it it really works, but somehow I rather doubt it.  I will try it today on my cement cell bank, first.  Although I know what he is saying, I have already tried it before, but I'll give it another go at it. This time with the above point of view in mind.

  In any case Ib2 has just blown us away with his little cell, even if the output drops under load, he needs to connect it to an ocsillator instead of the meter to see what it will do.

 

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