Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 893789
  • *Total Topics: 15703
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 1
  • *Guests: 16
  • *Total: 17

Author Topic: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?  (Read 11265 times)

Offline leeanderthal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« on: December 14, 2009, 05:43:10 PM »
In a conventional homopolar generator (not an N Machine) I believe that the magnetic field is uniform. If so, then the flux would only change during acceleration and deceleration of the disk.  While the disk is spinning at constant speed the flux would be unchanging.
If Lenz's law states that "the magnetic field of any induced current opposes the change that induces it" and there is no change, then is there an opposing force? Other than windage, mechanical drag and eddy currents.

Lee

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline petersone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2009, 09:35:31 PM »
Hi Lee
I know nothing about HPG's but if there is no change in the flux,there will be no lenz drag,and unfortunately no juice either.
peter

Offline leeanderthal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 09:46:48 PM »
Quote
I know nothing about HPG's but if there is no change in the flux,there will be no lenz drag,and unfortunately no juice either.

That's whats puzzling me.  It is obvious that in a conventional generator where there are a plurality of poles, flux is constantly changing.  But an HPG is acyclical.  I seems to me that the flux is uniform and unchanging, yet there is "juice".  So, either I am wrong about the flux or Mr. Lenz is wrong about the drag. ;-)

Lee

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2009, 09:46:48 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline petersone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2009, 10:09:23 PM »
Hi Lee
As I said I no nothing about HP G's,and very little about anything else!!
I never seen any gen.that is landless,and believe me I've looked and experimented.
Not to say there aren't any.
peter

Offline petersone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 10:12:12 PM »
Sorry Lee
I'm sure you knew, not landless, lenzless
peter

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2009, 10:12:12 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 02:13:52 AM »
That's whats puzzling me.  It is obvious that in a conventional generator where there are a plurality of poles, flux is constantly changing.  But an HPG is acyclical.  I seems to me that the flux is uniform and unchanging, yet there is "juice".  So, either I am wrong about the flux or Mr. Lenz is wrong about the drag. ;-)

Lee

You fail to realize the idea of changing flux.  You seem to think that it has to be increasing or decreasing..  All you have to do is move through it for current to form.  The field strength doesn't appear to be changing, but the gradient of strength is still there.

Of course, I'm always wrong about these things.

You need to realize that just because the flux doesn't appear to be changing, doesn't mean that it isn't.  Once you set it into motion, things are changing with respect to the reference frame.

The IS back torque on these devices, though you may calculate it to be zero, it will appear as abnormally large friction.

Offline leeanderthal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 02:40:58 AM »
Quote
You fail to realize the idea of changing flux.  You seem to think that it has to be increasing or decreasing..  All you have to do is move through it for current to form.  The field strength doesn't appear to be changing, but the gradient of strength is still there.
It's hard for me to imagine.  A uniform field strength, constant rotational speed and a constant load and the flux is changing?  I've always attributed the drag in an HPG to huge eddy currents and brushes. 
To quote a famous E. engineer and inventor, Charles F. Kettering "a problem well stated is a problem half solved".  It seems as though determining what the problem is ...is the problem.  If what you say is true, we are all wasting our time on HPG's.  If I am correct, all we have to do is get rid of the eddys and the brushes and OU happens.  Simple as that.

Lee

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 02:40:58 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 03:14:46 AM »
The problem here is that, in order to take off the current, you have to create a path between the axis of rotation and the rim of the disk.  This cannot rotate with the disk, or no current is produced.  It is therefore logical , that it is the radial path which is where the current is being generated.

In such a radius, the rotational speed ( in surface feet per minute ) is least near the center and greatest near the periphery.  THIS is where the change is occurring; the path's inner atoms are spinning slower than the path of the outer atoms.

And yes, eddy currents play a part in this; but it is the relativity which creates the apparition of a changing magnetic flux.  Even though the field strength is the same, it is as if to say that there is one end of a wire moving faster than the other in an even field; therefore a there is an affective difference experienced in the wire.

What would generate more current?  A wire of a given distance moving at a given speed, or the that same wire of a given distance moving at three times that speed?

It's really all about what the individual atoms are experiencing and contributing as a whole.

Offline leeanderthal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 03:42:35 AM »
Quote
The problem here is that, in order to take off the current, you have to create a path between the axis of rotation and the rim of the disk.  This cannot rotate with the disk, or no current is produced.  It is therefore logical , that it is the radial path which is where the current is being generated.

In such a radius, the rotational speed ( in surface feet per minute ) is least near the center and greatest near the periphery.  THIS is where the change is occurring; the path's inner atoms are spinning slower than the path of the outer atoms.

And yes, eddy currents play a part in this; but it is the relativity which creates the apparition of a changing magnetic flux.  Even though the field strength is the same, it is as if to say that there is one end of a wire moving faster than the other in an even field; therefore a there is an affective difference experienced in the wire.

What would generate more current?  A wire of a given distance moving at a given speed, or the same wire a given distance moving at three times that speed?

The current flow wouldn't necessarily have to be a radial line, if the entire rim was immersed in a liquid conductor. Nevertheless, I understand you point.  This difference in relative speed is somewhat offset by the fact that the lines of flux will tend to be more concentrated near the center (slower portion) of the disk. If the magnet is disk shaped and as large as the conductor disk.
 We also can't overlook the drag cause by induced current in the stationary exterior circuity.


Lee

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 03:42:35 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 04:13:40 AM »
The current flow wouldn't necessarily have to be a radial line, if the entire rim was immersed in a liquid conductor. Nevertheless, I understand you point.  This difference in relative speed is somewhat offset by the fact that the lines of flux will tend to be more concentrated near the center (slower portion) of the disk. If the magnet is disk shaped and as large as the conductor disk.

Typically, there will be a radial line of current regardless of whether or not it's a liquid brush, such a mercury or liquid sodium, or gallium, even if the brush extends around the entire disk, it will want to take the shortest path.

We also can't overlook the drag cause by induced current in the stationary exterior circuity.

Lee

This path is supposedly where the rotation pushes off of.. "the reference frame"...or so I've been told.

I thought it might be interesting to use a laser to power one, but I can't figure out how this would work without that reference frame. :P

Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 03:00:23 PM »
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8262.msg212860#msg212860

I posted a short series of experiments here, you may have read them already, but it involves conducting across the disk, rather than from the axis.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2009, 03:00:23 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline leeanderthal

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2009, 03:59:07 PM »
Thanks Jadaro,
I'll have a look.
I noticed on the other HPG thread that you are working on a continuous current generator. (I send a PM about it but for some reason, i don't think it went thru).  After reading your other posts, I was wondering, to what end would you attempt this?  Maybe the link that you referred me to will explain this.

Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2009, 09:34:45 PM »
I've only be able to make flinch motors..   they just 'flinch' towards the closets reference frame.  Everything is obeying the laws of physics, etc.

I'm not sure to what end I'll be testing these, most likely till I give out.  I still have yet to grasp the basics, still finding myself referring back to tests.

Offline jadaro2600

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1254
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 05:45:38 AM »
I thought it prudent to mention this document.

Not necessarily the actual experiment so much as the 20+ articles it sights at the end of the document.

http://www.fjp.org.ar/PDF-6.pdf

Offline KWP

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
Re: Does Lenz' law apply to a conventional homopolar generator?
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2010, 04:41:24 PM »
The answer is a resounding YES !!!

In order for Lenz' law to apply, there must be a current path-- not just an EMF.  Hook up a load to (or short the output terminals of) your HMG, and you WILL notice the back-torque.

The advantage to an HMG is that the magnetic field is stationary-- regardless of whether the magnet moves with the disk or not.  Because the field is stationary, there are no eddy current losses in the surrounding housing, etc.  You might have eddy current losses in the conductive disk, but only when current is flowing, and this can be reduced by making slots in the disk (from the axis to the rim, only where the magnetic field is concentrated).

 

OneLink