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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: lasersaber on September 02, 2010, 03:59:28 AM
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I have had this motor running nonstop for a few months now. If you do not know about these motors check them out on my YouTube videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbaub2kkkpA
I am sorry about the slow frame rate on the video. I will try to get a better setup in the near future. Right now the frame rate is just enough to detect that the rotor is spinning.
You can watch it here after installing the required plug-in: http://www.lasersaber.com/public/WebCam/ActiveX1.html
If you do not want to install the plug-in you can view it here but it is super slow: http://www.lasersaber.com/public/WebCam/Still1.html
I am in the process of miniaturizing this concept and adding more coils. My results so far have been very encouraging: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMoaDXyFZU
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simply eloquent... bravo!
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Very nice indeed lasersaber. Did you dope the smaller coil in salt?
This is just FANTASTIC. Really good news. I've sent this off to a whole lot of friends. WONDERFUL stuff.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Are the connections like this?
Jesus
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@nievesoliveras
Like this:
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@ Rosemary Ainslie
Yes, I did soak it in salt water once at the time of building. I really like what happens when I do this. At first they seem to totally die. Then over a few days they dry out, crystallize, rust a little and get rock hard. After this they seem to reach long term stability.
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@ Lasesaber
No criticism, just an observation:
There seems to be a problem with your very nice drawing. The two reed switches will trigger at the same time, which is not good, because the "pull" (left reed switch closes) and the "push" (right reed switch closes) should happen one after the other and not at the same time (which would cancel the magnetic fields).
Looking at your video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMoaDXyFZU (Baby Stubblefield Coil) one sees that the four magnets on the wheel indeed trigger the two reed switches at different times (first the "pull" and then the "push").
I attached a "corrected drawing" (the right reed switch has beens moved a little bit further away from the coil in comparison with the position of the left reed switch).
You made a great discovery and invention.
Greetings, Conrad
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@ Rosemary Ainslie
Yes, I did soak it in salt water once at the time of building. I really like what happens when I do this. At first they seem to totally die. Then over a few days they dry out, crystallize, rust a little and get rock hard. After this they seem to reach long term stability.
I think you've aced this as you've eliminated the variable conditions - this by allowing the rust. It was very insightful. Almost counter intuitive. I've given up trying to account for this benefit. Do you have any ideas here as to why it is preferred?
Regards,
Rosemary
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Thank you @lasersaber!
You were very honest!
Jesus
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@conradelektro
Maybe that is why his 48 days motor runs so slow. It is activating both reed switches at the same time.
Jesus
Update
But maybe it is needed because the only way to close the loop is with both reeds activated at the same time. Because is one cable from one coil and another from the other, activating just one would be like an open circuit I think.
If it were both cables from the same coil it would be okay.
Remember I can be completely wrong here.
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@nievesoliveras (Jesus) and Lasersaber
If you wanted "to close the loop" only one reed switch would be necessary, the other one could be a permanent connection with a piece of wire.
The funny (and for me inexplicable) thing about the Stubblefield coil is the "open end" of the two coils. The first question that came to my mind after reading the Stubblefield patent was "What the hell do I do with the free ends?". The answer is "You do nothing with the free ends!".
Lasersaber connects
"outer iron with inner copper with reed switch one, while inner iron and outer copper are open"
and then
"inner iron with outer copper with reed switch two, while outer iron and inner copper are open".
I hope that Lasersaber will answer and explain everything in his own words, I should not second-guess him.
Greetings, Conrad
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Good job. If you get the size down I recommend making a set of these to send them around to some of the known members, just for security's sake. I have completly missed your videos so I don't know who's doing what but are there replications of it by others? Keep up the good work.
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Great work Lasersaber
this is what we dream about,a self runner,
hopefully this is history in the making
I hope you're ready for all the questions that will come, after all this is only page 1 of the thread.
All the very best
cat
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This is nearly perfect presentation of a free energy system...
...I'm speaking of the Web video part.
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There are three things about the experiment itself:
(1) The lighting is great but it would be best
to use an LED light bar instead of a fluorescent bulb. Even if
creates subnominal picture illumination. The reason is the
fluorescent bulb will have an inductor or ballast that can add
energy directly into the coil. I don't know what you are using,
but LEDS would be better...It would save utility power too.
(2) The vertical wobble in the rotor could feed energy into the
system from vibrations in the bookcase to cause a hand magnet
type of operation. It would be better if the rotor purely just went
around, horizontally.
(3) This soaking in salt water. While is may do good physical
things to the coil, it will cause a battery effect as the iron core slowly
oxidizes. The salt will cause humidity from the air to be absorbed to
power a battery. You need to ask why this won't work with enameled
or plastic insulated wire. Or what happens if you coat this item with
water rejecting flat mat finishing fluid. Anti-static carbon based
spray might affect its operation adversely, as well.
:S:MarkSCoffman
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@mscoffman
(1) The lighting.
I do plan on setting up an LED light for this project.
(2) The vertical wobble in the rotor.
This is only happening because I did not balance my rotor correctly.
(3) This soaking in salt water will cause a battery effect as the iron core slowly
oxidizes.
The oxidization is happening on the iron wire more than on the iron core. It is the resulting weak battery effect combined with the constant switching of the magnetic field and the resulting back spikes that allow this to work long term with no maintenance. It has been my experience that this will keep working for a very long time. I keep it in a low humidity AC environment. It's not like the rust is getting washed away by wind and rain. There is almost nowhere for the elements that make up this coil to go. Imagine some copper wires and iron nails in a cotton bag. Drop the bag into the ocean for a few minutes to make sure it starts rusting and than leave it out in your back yard, exposed to the elements. The forces of nature will quickly destroy the whole thing. A big part of this is because the rust will constantly get washed away leaving new fresh metal exposed and ready to start the rusting process all over again. This is what most of us think of when we think of iron oxidizing and rusting away. Now lets imagine that you take that same cotton bag but instead of exposing it to the elements you put it on a glass shelf in a nice air conditioned environment. The bag will dry out and the contents will rust away to some extent but before long a maximum rust saturation point is reached. From this point on the decay process severely slows to a crawl. Even so, I am not claiming that this is perpetual motion. Everything is rusting and decaying away in one form or another. What is amazing is that the electromagnetic effect seems to keep working long term after the coil dries out. The big question is how long will it really run for?
P.S. The theories on rust and oxidization expressed above are purely my own unresearched ideas and should be taken with a grain of salt... ;)
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@conradelektro
You are on track with the corrected drawing. Here is what I meant to show:
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Hi all
following on from Mscoffman questions, a simple and practical test could be to place the whole device in a Faraday Cage and then place it into a vacuum bag. hopefully this will result in elimination of ambient moisture and prevent the coil from receiving.
This test could be achieved for a low-cost and not too much time.
Here are some useful links
http://preparednesspro.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/emp-101-part-iv-faraday-cage/ (http://preparednesspro.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/emp-101-part-iv-faraday-cage/)
http://www.amazon.com/Quantity-Space-Saver-Vacuum-Storage/dp/B0035Z9A1W/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1283534333&sr=8-1-fkmr2 (http://www.amazon.com/Quantity-Space-Saver-Vacuum-Storage/dp/B0035Z9A1W/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1283534333&sr=8-1-fkmr2)
cat
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@laseraber,
That's great. Thanks for sharing it with us. Now what remains is to have it reproduced independently. Also, I second @powercat's suggestion for placing it in a Faraday cage (the vacuum seems redundant for now).
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@laseraber,
That's great. Thanks for sharing it with us. Now what remains is to have it reproduced independently. Also, I second @powercat's suggestion for placing it in a Faraday cage (the vacuum seems redundant for now).
Go to youtube.com and look at ''lidmotor''s videos - he has replicated lasersabers NS coils with complete success and fully credits him for it - this thing is most certainly reproducible (looks like it requires patience with the winding, but its not really too complicated). Especially thanks to the extremely clear and well presented ''how to make a NS coil'' 7 part series that lasersaber has kindly made and stuck on youtube (look for lasersabers chanel or go to the links he left in the first post).
@ lasersaber - great vids, great batteries, inspiring work. I tried a copper pipe and magnesium ribbon battery after watching a few of your vids and managed to get a JThief running an LED. I wanna get more amps now and make a homemade battery to run my exciter.
Have you tried any of your coils in the earth?? any success?? what about other places?
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@flat hunter,
There are quite a few videos there. Can you point to a specific one? If that's real it should be reproduced by as many people as possible at that very promptly.
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Lazzer sabber your so cool i dream of understanding the circuits like you and lid I dont but i do have a idea if theres two open wires on the circuit
a iron core with electricity going thru it is said not to rust somewhere theres a iron rod in earth that defys all logic
but if you coukd run those extra wires to the end of the rod it should have the current fowing thru it from one side to the other and sto the rust altogether maybey this inteferes with the wireing them maybey jus a seperate wire from the end of the iron rod to begening would work the rust is just shorting the begening to the end
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I think about the fishes guills and the key you know how fish can swim up stream by directing the water thru its guills to the tail and overcoming the current very easy by creating a airplane wing and reversing it back and forth how a fish flops
But then we talk about static and feathers then i think about how maybey the birds feathers are taking the static from the air like the stubblfield coil and turning that into the lift directly and on stormy days before the rain birds would be playing in antigravity what a nice life huh
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@flat hunter,
There are quite a few videos there. Can you point to a specific one? If that's real it should be reproduced by as many people as possible at that very promptly.
here , they are :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Tllt7GD_w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Tllt7GD_w)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvWVFnTormg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvWVFnTormg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM-MEWivS-Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM-MEWivS-Q)
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@flat hunter,
There are quite a few videos there. Can you point to a specific one? If that's real it should be reproduced by as many people as possible at that very promptly.
If thats real????
A battery is 2 different metals separated by an electrolyte.
The stubblefield coil is iron wire and copper wire, separated by an electrolyte (damp cotton).
Im VERY VERY VERY sure it works.
Its just a question of how well - and from the videos ive seen from lasersaber and lidmotor, it seems to work very well - an extremely long time before the electrodes fully decay (here lasersaber is suggesting that salt water helped protect his iron/copper wire from oxidising....but im pretty sure the electrodes still oxidise, like in an ordinary galvanic battery. Lasersaber can correct me if im speaking rubbish)
There is no need to doubt this design - firstly it HAS already been reproduced, and secondly the design is fairly similar to a regular battery. Remember though Omnibus - this ISNT OU and no-one has claimed that it is - the only claim is that it is a very efficient battery.
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There's a major problem here. What is this stubble field coil, if I got the name of it correctly? If that's just two dissimilar metals separated by an electrolyte-soaked cotton to form a Galvanic cell (not a capacitor, as the narrator puts it) then it's as trivial as can be and the whole thing is to be dismissed out of hand. If there's no contact via an electrolyte between these two dissimilar metals in whatever that coil is named and there's only an air gap between them then it's pretty interesting. If that's the case the first thing to do is put the device in a Faraday cage while having the two metals carefully insulated to avoid any Galvanic potentials. Thus, more is needed to demonstrate that this is a self-sustaining device.
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@flathunter,
If that's what it is -- a device powered by a Galvanic cell -- then it's trivial and is no self-runner (notice the claim, it's in the title of this thread) whatsoever. Not interesting at all.
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There's a major problem here. What is this stubble field coil, if I got the name of it correctly? If that's just two dissimilar metals separated by an electrolyte-soaked cotton to form a Galvanic cell (not a capacitor, as the narrator puts it) then it's as trivial as can be and the whole thing is to be dismissed out of hand. If there's no contact via an electrolyte between these two dissimilar metals in whatever that coil is named and there's only an air gap between them then it's pretty interesting. If that's the case the first thing to do is put the device in a Faraday cage while having the two metals carefully insulated to avoid any Galvanic potentials. Thus, more is needed to demonstrate that this is a self-sustaining device.
As I understand it there is NO liquid added to the coil. And it's retained in a controlled 'dry' environment.
Regards,
Rosemary
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There's a major problem here. What is this stubble field coil, if I got the name of it correctly? If that's just two dissimilar metals separated by an electrolyte-soaked cotton to form a Galvanic cell (not a capacitor, as the narrator puts it) then it's as trivial as can be and the whole thing is to be dismissed out of hand. If there's no contact via an electrolyte between these two dissimilar metals in whatever that coil is named and there's only an air gap between them then it's pretty interesting. If that's the case the first thing to do is put the device in a Faraday cage while having the two metals carefully insulated to avoid any Galvanic potentials. Thus, more is needed to demonstrate that this is a self-sustaining device.
Omnibus - I get it that you see yourself as some kind of arbiter on any claims to OU. To lasersaber's credit he has NOT made any such claims. And I entirely fail to see any sense in varying the parameters of a perfectly efficient system to satisfy some irrelevant criteria that you nominate. With respect.
My understanding is that the Nathan Stubblefield's 'earth battery' requires moisture to allow some kind of chemical 'battery type' interaction as the energy supply. What lasersaber has done here - in an inspired variation of that early design - is to structure the material such that it does NOT need water. Therefore is it doubtful that this effect depends on any chemical interaction at all. The other variation is the inclusion of a second reed switch which, as he explains is critical.
My own advice to lasersaber is to leave the apparatus precisely as is - and let's see it 'run down'. Don't even bother with an LED. Rather build a second if there are to be add ons. Or use the LED on the multiple small coils that you're working on. Just my tuppence worth. There is definitely an 'expenditure' of energy - as there's a measurable voltage. And I concur with lasersaber that the magnet would not perpetually 'rotate' if there were not alternating field patterns resulting from the 'two switches' and collapsing fields.
To my way of thinking this is the single most significant experiment that has EVER resulted from any of these forums and I'm rather concerned that it's not attracting the attention that it deserves or the acknowledgement that one assumes we all owe it. Surely? It's apparently defeating those barriers that our classicists require. Isn't that the intention of these forums? I would have thought. ::)
Regards,
Rosemary
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lasersaberit work is remarkable and fascinating and has so far been replicated by Lidmotor's.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/2/Q_Tllt7GD_w (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/2/Q_Tllt7GD_w)
This is a battery ?, how does it work, I hope we will see test done to establish this, or are we going to say "it doesn't matter it just works, like magic"
I do hope the testing will be done, I would love to make one of these that can minimally produced 1 W of free power over a very long time.
cat
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lasersaberit work is remarkable and fascinating and has so far been replicated by Lidmotor's.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/2/Q_Tllt7GD_w (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/2/Q_Tllt7GD_w)
This is a battery ?, how does it work, I hope we will see test done to establish this, or are we going to say "it doesn't matter it just works, like magic"
I do hope the testing will be done, I would love to make one of these that can minimally produced 1 W of free power over a very long time.
cat
;D Hi Cat,
I don't know that anyone can definitively state what's happening, but - for what it's worth - my own take is that we've got induced magnetic fields collapsing and interacting with the spinning magnet in synch. I agree it's important to discover whether it's the combination of copper and iron - or wether one can use either one. And I'ts reasonably important to discount any electrolytic process - but I would have thought that's pretty well discounted precisely because the surfaces are dry. If moisture in the air is responsible for some kind of electrolytic process - then there's enough such moisture everywhere. What I'm trying to say is that the quantitiy of moisture is so negligible that I suspect it can be entirely discounted. But that's just my opinion.
lasersaber has interrupted the rig twice, once to transport it to the site where it now is. And once to adjust the magnet's spin. It would be a shame to interrupt it again. I think any further questions can be established around further builds. Let's get this one going for a year - uninterrupted. That would be SO significant.
Regards,
Rosie
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Because its electrolizing does not
make it a bettery its a feather and a battery
why did tesla feed the pigions he knew the frequency
of the energy the look for to fly
why to the birds sit on the electdic wire
theres static why do the bids land when my earth battery was perfect
it emits a energy frequency like before the storm
the static that causes lightning this coil is like a feather always
harnessing the static from the air
the crystal salt helps it receive
crystal is a radio receiver the crystals form in the frequency
the coil is built depending on contaminents
how those crystals for determines how well it produces
try doing like a bird wrap the salt with
more feather see if indeed it does
pick up static theres white noise
on every one of my radio chanels
thats not tunned i dream of that power
running my car
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The magnetic amplifyer is the radio
take the radio like lid receive the frequency of the coil
but instid of playing the speaker play the coil
make the coil the speaker make the
motor the cone make the pulse of speaker
turn the motor feedback is over unity
if the motor is the speaker then the mic
or anttena picks it up feedback thru the magnetic amplifyer
very low power i would build it i dont know how
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I said all this backwards or ill say it twice because its very important
the casset tape is a recorded magnetic feild
the radio magnifies that feild to the
speaker but the speaker is a coil
the pulse moves the speaker but
the magnet is not in the cone its in the
coil reverse this system make the coil spin
on the string like newtons pyndelum
effect but way improved we have done experiment on radiant
enery that really prove the best design
is reverse of a regular motor the power from inside
by spining a magnet on a string
lids spining the magnets on a string as well
but im saying this is a good design woulb be better design
it the coil was in the middle like helicopter
energy up thrust down lazer saber
you and lid can finish this just imagin your wheel stationary
and your coils spining then the wheel being your receiving
being the receiving anttena back to the coil
and what ever circuit magnifies the power in amplifyer
magnifyes the power now work back wards
was there ever feed back in a non battery radio
how and thats what we have to duplicate
requires going clear back to the begening.
Sorry if im conffusing im limited in mr radio side
only understand speakers pa ohm loads
some of the amplifyers stuff my guess is the tube
has the answer something about tube amps make them
very expensive they do something no other amp does
and do you know how when you drop the ohm load the speaker power goes up ok when I built my car coils to wireless power the razor
and stobe sorry i dont know how to light led or flourescents
i did figure a way to tune the cap to make it sing
different buzz any ways when i put three car coils
essentialy next to each other with the same
120 going into the spark plug side
when i drop the ohm load by
crossing the +- side like in series and parrale
my power goes up to my razor
so in order to magnify the wireless
power you need several receivers
those arnt droping power load there droping the
ohm but unless there wired together it apears mutiple receivers
dont increase the power but in serries and parralel
they do turning the power down on the metter but up to the razor
and really maxing the amp mutiplication
from .001 amps i can get 2.35 out
and if i knew how to drop the ohm load more
im shure it could way over power that razor
i think thats what i did some how when i spun the drill
powered the radio and the razor it was unlimited
but what droped my ohm oh maybey when i hooked up the radio it was working in reverse from the power supply to my coils
but why did it stop i dont know much about radio
but im rethinking my set up i hooked the car coils up
to the radio i had the razor spining the radio drew a little juice but came on
and was playing fine i then thought
well if i can power a radio and razor i can power the drill
so i got a big drill 6 amp and spun the shit out of it
till i realized it had a second speed at which point everything stoped
my guess is now that the inside of that radio amplifer was droping and storing my energy into what was those heat sinks i think those are what i use to burn out when i fry my amp by to much
ohm load on the speakers so this electronics guy would solder me in more
but what do those do how could the be working in
reverse to drop the ohm load on my coils to power that big ass drill
im trying to to you lazersaber and lid because i dont understand not one part from the wall plug to the radio but from the radio out was 4 small speakers wired in parralle so basicaly the speakers matched my coil input
oh it pretty confusing if only I had some one to work with who understood all this maybee no one does im kinda making myself look stupid even though i know it powered that drill and must burned out something in the radio
ill take the radio apart find the burned out peice
then well have the answer if its a odvious melt to me
if not were fcked.
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There's a major problem here. What is this stubble field coil, if I got the name of it correctly? If that's just two dissimilar metals separated by an electrolyte-soaked cotton to form a Galvanic cell (not a capacitor, as the narrator puts it) then it's as trivial as can be and the whole thing is to be dismissed out of hand. If there's no contact via an electrolyte between these two dissimilar metals in whatever that coil is named and there's only an air gap between them then it's pretty interesting. If that's the case the first thing to do is put the device in a Faraday cage while having the two metals carefully insulated to avoid any Galvanic potentials. Thus, more is needed to demonstrate that this is a self-sustaining device.
Why not watch some of lasersabers (or lidmotors) videos, so you can see for yourself exactly what they are doing? You could even try replicating them...its not like you dont have the links.
Your comments on here would then be more relevant as to whether this is OU or not.
I agree with Rosemary - Lasersabers NS replication is one of the best things I've seen on here.
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Why not watch some of lasersabers (or lidmotors) videos, so you can see for yourself exactly what they are doing? You could even try replicating them...its not like you dont have the links.
Your comments on here would then be more relevant as to whether this is OU or not.
I agree with Rosemary - Lasersabers NS replication is one of the best things I've seen on here.
Like I said, this should be discarded out of hand. A motor powered by a galvanic cell is trivial. Some basic competence is needed before getting into OU research and making big claims otherwise you fall easy prey to the zealous activists.
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Lets make this very clear
anyone who discredits lid, lazersaber,benidini
stubblefield,jouel theif is very simply Goverment and or
haliburtion oil these are the answer one or more in
combination can free power virtualy anything
and the joe cell need really to be done
again or find this guy and why we dont have these joe cells
running our cars they work I have not built a complete one but im testing
trying to understand each step and right now im on the antigravity
and it works so these are all your answers
these are the smartest guys who can take us off oil
and natural gas and solar and the stuff dave lambert is doing
is setting the bar and helping us to understand the principles
of the very energy itself.
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Hi Rosie ;)
I don't know that anyone can definitively state what's happening, but - for what it's worth - my own take is that we've got induced magnetic fields collapsing and interacting with the spinning magnet in synch. I agree it's important to discover whether it's the combination of copper and iron - or wether one can use either one. And I'ts reasonably important to discount any electrolytic process - but I would have thought that's pretty well discounted precisely because the surfaces are dry. If moisture in the air is responsible for some kind of electrolytic process - then there's enough such moisture everywhere. What I'm trying to say is that the quantitiy of moisture is so negligible that I suspect it can be entirely discounted. But that's just my opinion.
If we can discover what makes these types of devices stop then hopefully we can understand more about what makes them go.
I agree with you if they work anywhere then the question of moisture is almost redundant
lasersaber has interrupted the rig twice, once to transport it to the site where it now is. And once to adjust the magnet's spin. It would be a shame to interrupt it again. I think any further questions can be established around further builds. Let's get this one going for a year - uninterrupted. That would be SO significant
.
I totally agree with you on this, let it run as long as possible.
This device looks like it could be one of the best contenders for the OU prize
not necessarily for the prize but for the criteria of entry.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5707.0
anyway a lot more development needed to get to that stage
All the best
cat
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You may have a negative opiinion of me you
may think everything i know and say is impossible
but please just try to listen
gravity = magnetism frequency temperature
radiation= light or frequency
This coil is not a battery it absorbing
radiation from the air like a antenna
transfering it to energy
So how do you stop radiation
ill tell you water a shit load of water
if you soak that coil in a bunch of water it will
stop why?
Water prisms light and frequency
and will interupt the flow and direction
the coil is directing the frequency to the motor
coral castle says not to much girls
meaning not to much water just the right amount
determines to much or not enough
the birds dont fly very good on really hot days
in fact the runways in airzona have to be calculated the length
based on the air density
the birds fly the best before the rain
the highest level of humidity
without water
if you find the frequency with the most power or
i beleive you on the right track a bunch of salt crystals that pick up all frequency or a all wave antenna
with right amount of humidity i beleive you can really increase this power level moray had 50ft cable and a tuned ground to
water and a tuned antenna to salt granite or germanium
cells in a wood box to store the frequency
the wood has a humidity water barrier
i did 2 volts steay from a antenna to my salt cells
i dont know how to wire like lid or lasersaber
but i frien deep cell marine bayteries
if you start power thru the rod before you build it as you build it i do not beleive it will rust i think it only oxides during tbe phase it has no energy flow
my opinion. Take it for what its worth
most think im insane some think im genuis
me I think im lost has anyone built a giant
stubblefield does the power increase in size
or just in parrallel series
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Hi cletushowell
please try not to take things so personally, this forum is not a personality contest, I have read many of your posts on this site before, and a lot of what you are saying makes logical sense, you are a knowledgeable person,
though your style of often aggressively preaching your point to people, makes me shy away from any communication with you.
Please try not to start an argument with me, I am here to learn about the "Self-Runner NS Coil Pulse Motor Live Video Stream. It's been going for months!"
And hopefully one day make my own version.
cat
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Like I said, this should be discarded out of hand. A motor powered by a galvanic cell is trivial. Some basic competence is needed before getting into OU research and making big claims otherwise you fall easy prey to the zealous activists.
'Zelous activists' LOL. The simple truth is that we're all victim of your own zelous irrelvancies. I've tried to work out what actually motivates you Omnibus. I'm now entirely satisfied that you're essentially so self-opinionated that you actually consider your every thought above question. A motor powered by a glavanic cell is only trivial if the amount of energy delivered equals the energy dissipated. And I see nothing TRIVIAL in the unique battery configuration that Nathan Subblefield devised. It shows an extraordinary insight and some really excellent lateral thinking. And the use of pure water to generate any kind of electrolytic action is far preferable to acids and such like which are pollutant and dangerous. Added to which there is an elegant simplicity in the design that puts paid to regular battery constructs. It's breathtaking. And all you can do is DISMISS IT?
That's the original Nathan Stubblefield concept. Now we've got lasersaber's variation. NO WATER REQUIRED. What do you make of that Omnibus? :o Are you even capable of wrapping the implications around that censorial, self opinionated, arthritic mind of yours. I doubt it. It would require a lucid mind and a certain amount of independent thought. You're capable of neither.
'Some basic competence' as you put it - is also essential to learn to give credit where credit is due. You stated that this experiment has no significance to any OU research unless there's no 'galvanic action'. WELL THEN. Prove to us mere mortals that there is such and I'll bother to study your opinion with a little more attention. But with or without galvanic action there is a remarkable simplicity and elegance that would, admittedly require a certain amount of insight to appreciate. Clearly you lack this.
Rosemary
ADDED
I apologise to our members for being harsh - but the fact is that there's such extraordinary brilliance in this build and I'm rather ashamed that it is NOT drawing the attention that it should. Then to add to this evident lack of excitement is the predictably fatuous comments from Omnibus and it's rather more than I can manage.
In any event I've toned down the post. Hopefully this edit will take and that I'm not too late.
-
You have to come to grips with the fact that the device in question is the opposite of interesting for this discussion forum. You may not understand it but that is no reason to write long posts to confirm even further your misunderstanding. That school kid cluttering the thread is enough of a nuisance. We don't need more. When someone sets himself or herself up to tackle OU as well as other topics in science one indeed has to have some basic competence. I was not the only one to tell you this. Your aggressive behavior will not make up for your obvious lack of competence in the issues at hand. You should show at least some restraint when opting to express an opinion.
-
... You should show at least some restraint when opting to express an opinion.
LOL. I DID. ;D More than you realise.
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LOL. I DID. ;D More than you realise.
Not enough
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Well Omnibus. I'd very much like to see if you are capable of even a fraction of lasersaber's extraordinary abilities and insight. I'd be very glad to see what you can bring to the table. What I really want to see is what it is that you have that also somehow qualifies you in dismissing and diminishing his amazing work. What have you got to show us? Surely there's something?
Regards,
Rosemary
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@ccat do you see how rosemary hasto defend lazersabers
running duplicated perfectly safe technology
that requires no fuel why do guys like obnius
come on here and say shit i take it personal
because it put people like lazersaber
from getting credit they deserve and not only that but
it puts them in a bad mood and you end up
with these technologies hidden like coral
castle because it becomes a war against stupidity
why are we arguing the galvonic nature of the coil
being overunity its better then oil by far
and should be funded to the max it can possible do
period and lazer saber and lid and
stubbfield can and will be taking us to the next level
off oil no matter how many jerks come on here
and try to discredit it if he built it maybey he knows what stops it you think
thanks rose for standing up to these guys
and cat i hope you learn a lot and duplicate it.
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@ccat do you see how rosemary hasto defend lazersabers
running duplicated perfectly safe technology
that requires no fuel why do guys like obnius
come on here and say shit i take it personal
because it put people like lazersaber
from getting credit they deserve and not only that but
it puts them in a bad mood and you end up
with these technologies hidden like coral
castle because it becomes a war against stupidity
why are we arguing the galvonic nature of the coil
being overunity its better then oil by far
and should be funded to the max it can possible do
period and lazer saber and lid and
stubbfield can and will be taking us to the next level
off oil no matter how many jerks come on here
and try to discredit it if he built it maybey he knows what stops it you think
thanks rose for standing up to these guys
and cat i hope you learn a lot and duplicate it.
;D Thanks for this Cletus. I agree entirely. In fact I've now added this to my own 'to do list'. LOL. I HATE experimenting and it seems that it's all I'm doing lately. But this is MUST. You should do the same Cletus. Just check out the videos on how to make a coil. It looks doable even for a clutz like me.
This is SUCH exciting news. What's exciting is that it's OFFICIALLY DRY. NO CHEMICAL INTERACTIONS. It's blow away. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Kindest regards,
Rosie
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You have to come to grips with the fact that the device in question is the opposite of interesting for this discussion forum. You may not understand it but that is no reason to write long posts to confirm even further your misunderstanding. That school kid cluttering the thread is enough of a nuisance. We don't need more. When someone sets himself or herself up to tackle OU as well as other topics in science one indeed has to have some basic competence. I was not the only one to tell you this. Your aggressive behavior will not make up for your obvious lack of competence in the issues at hand. You should show at least some restraint when opting to express an opinion.
He spicifically states in the video he's not claiming OU. If the battery really is dry, you have to admit it's intriguing.
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He spicifically states in the video he's not claiming OU. If the battery really is dry, you have to admit it's intriguing.
Take a look at the title of the thread -- self-runner. That's an OU claim. If he's not claiming OU and yet he claims a self-runner then it's another sign he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Like Ii said, if there's no galvanic contact between the two metals (the two metals are insulated from each other) and the rotation persists while the device is in a Faraday cage, then we'll have something to pay attention to. I'm afraid that's not the case, though. If I'm wrong then this person should come here and clearly state that there's no galvanic cell in his contraption and the two metals are wound into the said coil while insulated from each other and the device thus set up works in a Faraday cage too. Otherwise this whole thing has to be dismissed. We've seen enough incompetence and too many sick games played here (@cletushowell being the latest) that it's high time to take a clear stance against such charade.
-
Take a look at the title of the thread -- self-runner. That's an OU claim. If he's not claiming OU and yet he claims a self-runner then it's another sign he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Like Ii said, if there's no galvanic contact between the two metals (the two metals are insulated from each other) and the rotation persists while the device is in a Faraday cage, then we'll have something to pay attention to. I'm afraid that's not the case, though. If I'm wrong then this person should come here and clearly state that there's no galvanic cell in his contraption and the two metals are wound into the said coil while insulated from each other and the device thus set up works in a Faraday cage too. Otherwise this whole thing has to be dismissed. We've seen enough incompetence and too many sick games played here (@cletushowell being the latest) that it's high time to take a clear stance against such charade.
He's not claiming OU, he specifically states it in the video. His demeanor is exceedingly straightforward, give the guy a break. I'm sure a Faraday cage, etc will be forthcoming due to the onslaught of doubt which will persist otherwise.
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He's not claiming OU, he specifically states it in the video. His demeanor is exceedingly straightforward, give the guy a break. I'm sure a Faraday cage, etc will be forthcoming due to the onslaught of doubt which will persist otherwise.
No, he's not convincing. What he's showing is nothing, it's trivial, he can't get it and if he wants to persuade those of us who follow the matter closely he should really do some serious work to prove that's something worthwhile. So far it's a joke and we need no more of this.
-
Besides, if he's not claiming OU what is his device doing in this forum? It shouldn't be in any forum discussing unusual setups for that matter. What he's presenting may be shown at some school fair where kids present experiments based on the known laws of physics. No more than that. Like I said, all he's showing is trivial and worthy of no attention in a forum such as this.
-
Oh what ever obnius i changed specifi gravity of this two litter to half
it size by two energies fighting inside a plasma your not even close to my level bud i dont care who you think you are
i did hutchesion experinent inside the bottle
warped the light bulb and every experiment i run into jerks like you
i say take it to the school teach the kids
thats what i do with my light bulb and magnifyer
show them direct ion propulsion
they have fun never try to discredit
or say anthing negative whats your point
obnius so what if theres a galvonic effect
if it is a galvonic effect which its not
then we just maximized the effect to its full potential
still got a problem ya you do its a threat to your money aint it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO7k6LflSco&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Oh what ever obnius i changed specifi gravity of this two litter to half
it size by two energies fighting inside a plasma your not even close to my level bud i dont care who you think you are
i did hutchesion experinent inside the bottle
warped the light bulb and every experiment i run into jerks like you
i say take it to the school teach the kids
thats what i do with my light bulb and magnifyer
show them direct ion propulsion
they have fun never try to discredit
or say anthing negative whats your point
obnius so what if theres a galvonic effect
if it is a galvonic effect which its not
then we just maximized the effect to its full potential
still got a problem ya you do its a threat to your money aint it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO7k6LflSco&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Hey Buddy, cut it out. This was tried by @alsealokin(Tinsel Koala) who used that hillbilly @overconfident, then it was tried by him impersonating Mylow, this time impersonating a schoolboy moron. This won't fly. You won't stop the reasonable from pursuing OU by playing these sick games. Don't kid yourself, many see through it. Cut it out. If Stefan wants to keep you just for some kind of amusement that's OK, otherwise he should ban you straight away.
-
...What he's presenting may be shown at some school fair where kids present experiments based on the known laws of physics... Like I said, all he's showing is trivial and worthy of no attention in a forum such as this.
ROFL
[Stage Left: sound of Thunder]
NARRATOR [with voice like Charlton Heston]: 'Onthebus' has spoken!
ALL: We are not worthy!
-------------------------------
hey Big O, you need to get out more, man! ;)
-
Stubblefield Coil U.S. Patent 600,457 Patent - "Electric battery" - March 8, 1898
I find it very interesting that at this time in the earth's history electrical transmission was virtually non-existent, so the only signals the battery could receive must have been natural.
The claim being made on this thread is that the battery is dry and has stopped eating itself almost
but if there is any moisture left inside then the galvanic reaction will continue.
In my own work with boats I had to deal with generators that have been underwater and trying to salvage them is very difficult depending on how long they've been submerged,getting the engine to run isn't a problem, drying out the generator is, two fan heaters running two or three days does not work, even though the generator appears to be dry.
I am not suggesting that I know what is happening inside Lasersaber coil, only that it needs further investigation, the claim that it has been running for months I find very exciting indeed.
Like Rosie said "Let's get this one going for a year" NOW that would be something.
cat
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Stubblefield Coil U.S. Patent 600,457 Patent - "Electric battery" - March 8, 1898
I find it very interesting that at this time in the earth's history electrical transmission was virtually non-existent, so the only signals the battery could receive must have been natural.
The claim being made on this thread is that the battery is dry and has stopped eating itself almost
but if there is any moisture left inside then the galvanic reaction will continue.
In my own work with boats I had to deal with generators that have been underwater and trying to salvage them is very difficult depending on how long they've been submerged,getting the engine to run isn't a problem, drying out the generator is, two fan heaters running two or three days does not work, even though the generator appears to be dry.
I am not suggesting that I know what is happening inside Lasersaber coil, only that it needs further investigation, the claim that it has been running for months I find very exciting indeed.
Like Rosie said "Let's get this one going for a year" NOW that would be something.
cat
Even if it picks up natural electromagnetic emissions it won't be OU. Therefore, seeing it work in a Faraday cage is a must. That, of course, if it is shown for sure it's not a galvanic cell powered device. If so, even discussing a device such as this in an OU forum would be a joke. So, first things first -- is it a galvanic cell or not?
-
ROFL
[Stage Left: sound of Thunder]
NARRATOR [with voice like Charlton Heston]: 'Onthebus' has spoken!
ALL: We are not worthy!
-------------------------------
hey Big O, you need to get out more, man! ;)
Mildly funny.
-
No, he's not convincing. What he's showing is nothing, it's trivial, he can't get it and if he wants to persuade those of us who follow the matter closely he should really do some serious work to prove that's something worthwhile. So far it's a joke and we need no more of this.
He says outright he is not claiming OU in the video. I didn't say he's 'convincing,' and really he's not trying convince anyone of anything. Deep breaths, man.
-
I don't give a rats ass whether or not it's OU, it's freaking interesting! That's all it needs to be too.
Why listen to dreary windbags like Omnibus? He doesn't build or contribute anything other than a lot of hot air (he might be OU himself if someone wanted to strap a Sterling engine on his keyboard).
I'm going to build one of these things too. It would be fun just to watch it run for a couple of months.
Cheers,
Ted
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Obnuis do yyou even know what galvonic effect
is do you even know why it rust
do you have any clue to the very basic
of energy galvonic effect is not energy its a short of energy
rust is a short of rust of the ends of the iron
from + - so your stupid galvonic battery
is not energy till the dam gavonic runs out its energy till galvonic
takes over destroying the energy
its totaly backwards of your brain
when galvonic energy salt eventualy builds in your heart it stops it from pumping when energy salt build in your brain it shorts the nerves
causing altimers when a stainless steel ro is put ib your bone it buikds energy from one end and destroys the bone in the other
+- and it eventualy becomes the same frequency as the exray
when galvonic rust happens in a boat it stop the free movement of electrons the pistons and shorts the mortor together it does not build a battery your in over your head debating me i sujest you let lazer saber coil run if you want to put it in a farady cage go ahead no ones stoping you
have a good day
-
And now ill give you the answer even though i had to get arrested for my earth battery the feds did tell me carrots and i didnt get it till
but now I do go to the very old fairy tail of stone soup
everyone contributes we all eat for free
well the first thing in was a stone in the iron
pan it changes the boiling point three stones exactlty the three stones on top of the coral rock a soup fit for a king
its all how you cook the soup the very next thing
to go in is carrorts do you know why carrots
well carrots are a antioxidant and a conductor
so in the tesla tube the carrots essentialy stop the corriosion
of electrodes essentialy ending your Galvonic effect making your coil run
forever no the stones not for sale
-
But if you got some cabbage to add feel free were trying to
feed everyone free
-
Im sorry this is actualy a nail soup
morays and edd are stone soups my mistake
but will light the village free and those that bring the nail do sleep like a king
in the end
-
The NS coil replications that myself, and several others in the group, made about 3 years ago worked pretty good. The most interesting thing we noted was that, when buried in the ground, the voltage and mA's were higher when the soil was the most dry. Stubblefield himself said the same thing.
What Lasersaber has done here is to do a more faithful replication using materials that NS used himself. He has also developed his version of the make-break system that NS might have used, or at least something similar. None of us in the group ever got that far with it.
So, I believe this work to be very significant and I am happy that he is sharing all of his details with us here. I hope we can see other replications of Laser's work and maybe others can maybe make some new improvements to these devices.
I hope to replicate laser's work here as soon as time and funding allow. I believe this to be very important.
Bill
-
Bill I beleive we made the break thru
on both in one day the temperature split between
the air and the ground creates a energy transfer all the time tge moray
valve but the problem was and is the
tube tesla reversed the tube so as to
contain the pressire to equal the boiling point
so the lightning cannot how do you say this go everydirection
but bounce in the tube directing the diapoles
thru the tube when the pressure and size
gas is right the bulb will just stay warm not boil over
although i beleive when it boils over the aluminum oxide
finds its own happy medium of gas to
air making this pressure relatively easy to find
i have to do more testing but i beleive your earth battery
is directly related to your tempersture change and my remoerature change on mine was a steady 58 degrees but i did not add a cap
or a tube to direct the flow morays caps and 50 bulbs his tubes
so i think if you can seperate your temperature more your energy will go up which is what the water was doing in the air battery
but the salt overcones the remperature change by inserting more or less temperature with no water thats my take im pretty shure the joe cell
has very same principles the inner ring tempersture
is higher a smaller ring distributed over the next
a larger lower tempersture to the next a wheel within a wheel
within a wheel the core the zinc the salt
-
@Pirate88179,
Can you describe in more detail your experiment? When the coil was not buried in the ground were the metals insulated and yet there was still potential difference measured between them?
-
He says outright he is not claiming OU in the video. I didn't say he's 'convincing,' and really he's not trying convince anyone of anything. Deep breaths, man.
On the contrary, he' s trying to convince whoever reads this that it is "Self-Runner NS Coil Pulse Motor" which it is not if the coil is a galvanic cell.
-
The NS coil replications that myself, and several others in the group, made about 3 years ago worked pretty good.
Bill
Can you point me to a URL that lists the components and instructions to build one of yours and/or Lasersaber's Stubblefield coil?
Thanks
DonL
-
He spicifically states in the video he's not claiming OU. If the battery really is dry, you have to admit it's intriguing.
I LOVE waking up to this kind of thread interest. happyfunball - take a look at the construct related to the actual Nathan Stubblefield coil which lasersaber has given us. I'll try and get the link when I've posted here. You'll note that amperage and voltage are evident without damping the cotton. Damping simply served to increase both. That's the first point. Secondly in this coil lasersaber has done without the secondary winding - all that copper that usually takes up almost a 3rd of the coil. It only has the initial windings. Then. The coil itself was over 80 days drying and only half that time was the entire test apparatus in 'full swing' so to speak. I very much doubt that there's any moisture left in it - but Cat's right. It would be as well to determine this - if possible. But then - build a second rig PLEASE. Let's see this one go to the death.
Regarding ou prize claims - can't quite remember who brought this up - I think Stefan wants something to run for 'months'? is it? Certainly not even for a year. I'm glad to see that lasersaber has got this in a controlled environment - hopefully a library or somesuch - available for public view and to be put on public record and YET - not available for sabotage. I'm reasonably certain that he'll not change that apparatus. I do hope so.
Pesonally I think that lasersaber has compensated for the lesser voltage resulting from a dry coil - by adding the second switch. Indeed. This is very, very interesting. Absolutely.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
-
A Galvanic cell, named after Luigi Galvani, is an electrochemical cell that derives electrical energy from chemical reactions taking place within the cell. It generally consists of two different metals connected by a salt bridge, or individual half-cells separated by a porous membrane. It is sometimes called a "Voltaic cell", after Alessandro Volta, inventor of the voltaic pile, the first electrical battery. In common usage, the word "battery" has come to include a single Galvanic cell, but a battery properly consists of multiple cells.[1][2]
Guys, here's Wiki's definition of a galvanic cell. I looked it up to put paid to Omnibus' pretentions. You will notice that it requires the physical separation of two metals through an acid or alkaline mix or through the construct of a salt bridge. Here we've got the two metals in gridlock and some tenuous insulation of iron winding with the use of cotton fibre. I very much doubt it can be described as a 'galvanic' cell at all.
Also of interest is Cat's reference to the date of the initial Nathan Stubblefield patent. I'm just sorry that this device was not, apparently, further developed. It would have changed history.
Regards,
Rosemary
-
Like Ii said, if there's no galvanic contact between the two metals (the two metals are insulated from each other)
When I read something like this then my actual concern is that we're dealing with another troll. In the first instance he takes the trouble to tell lasersaber - obviously a genius experimentalist - that he DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. And then he states
and the rotation persists while the device is in a Faraday cage, then we'll have something to pay attention to.
that initial 'REQUIREMENT ACCORDING TO OMNIBUS' the omniscient ignoramus - is that the two metals must be insulated from each other? Why? What exactly would this prove? That it's not a galvanic effect and therefore of no interest. Or that it is a galvanic effect and therefore of no interest? ::) And this from a man who professes to know whereof he speaks. I would urgently advise all members and readers to see this pretentiousness for what it is. Indeed the most of us already do.
Then we get this.
I'm afraid that's not the case, though. If I'm wrong then this person should come here and clearly state that there's no galvanic cell in his contraption and the two metals are wound into the said coil while insulated from each other and the device thus set up works in a Faraday cage too.
Notice, if you please, there is no request here. There is a demand that this gentleman - who has taken time out of his life to give us the variation to the Nathan Stubblefield Coil - gratis and for nothing - who has video'd and explained the manufacture of the entire apparatus - also gratis and for nothing - to then demand that he demean himself and come and explain to this obviously intellectually challenged mediocrity - what? That Omnibus needs to revise his terminology? That's the only appropriate response. Else just ignore him. Hopefully he'll do the latter.
Otherwise this whole thing has to be dismissed.
By whose ruling may I ask? Does Omnibus now determine what may or may not be allowed on this forum and on lasersaber's own thread? What extraordinary presumption of authority.
We've seen enough incompetence and too many sick games played here (@cletushowell being the latest) that it's high time to take a clear stance against such charade.
Well. It seems that Omnibus now sees lasersaber's offer as a 'sick game' - unless he declare something that is entirely illogical - demeaning and insulting. All I can say to this attitude is this. lasersaber I heartily apologise to you that our members can be so thankless and impolite. I trust you know enough to ENTIRELY discount Omnibus' attitude and that you realise how much the rest of us appreciate your work.
It is precisely this attitude that Omnibus and others like him manage to hold back OU technology. To me the real miracle is that progress is made on these forums notwithstanding these trolls. Are they paid? From what I understand the only OU technology that Omnibus has attempted to defend is Steorn's technology. And that technology is NOT FREE or OPEN SOURCED. It's licensed. Makes one think.
Regards,
Rosemary
http://www.scribd.com/doc/33937867/IF-I-WAS-A-TROLL
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Why listen to dreary windbags like Omnibus? ... (he might be OU himself if someone wanted to strap a Sterling engine on his keyboard)
LOL
it appears OnthebUs is already OU
more energy emerges from his backside than goes into his brain! ;)
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No, he's not convincing. What he's showing is nothing, it's trivial, he can't get it and if he wants to persuade those of us who follow the matter closely he should really do some serious work to prove that's something worthwhile. So far it's a joke and we need no more of this.
@Omnibus
I trust your use of the word "we" is intended as the royal plural. It is NOT A REFLECTION OF THE MAJORITY OF THE CONTRIBUTORS HERE. "We" as the majority of the contributors in this thread absolutely do not regard this effect as 'trivial'.
And may I again ask you to show us your OWN contributions to OU technology? From where I sit this has been confined to a sad little apologia that thermodynamic laws allow for OU? Where's your paper? Where's you treatise? Where's you nobel prize? Where's that brilliant logic that gives you this presumption of authority to speak on behalf of everyone here? It's patently lacking. Show us your credentials Omnibus that we can revise these opinions about you.
I suspect that the next thing that will happen is that shruggedatlas will now come to the fray and try and explain that you're the next best thing to Einstein. LOL.
Rosemary
-
Besides, if he's not claiming OU what is his device doing in this forum? It shouldn't be in any forum discussing unusual setups for that matter. What he's presenting may be shown at some school fair where kids present experiments based on the known laws of physics. No more than that. Like I said, all he's showing is trivial and worthy of no attention in a forum such as this.
It is my opinion that if we depended on your own standards of 'worthy' experiments we'd need to wait into eternity to find such. Clearly you are, yourself, incapable of original thought let alone original experimentation.
Where are your own experiments Omnibus? Even a replication would help? Where are they? What can you bring to the table? Apart from your mediocrities and your lack of accreditation?
Rosemary
-
.
I suspect that the next thing that will happen is that shruggedatlas will now come to the fray and try and explain that you're the next best thing to Einstein. LOL.
Rosemary
[/quote]
Why are you being so cruel?
:o
J.
-
.
I suspect that the next thing that will happen is that shruggedatlas will now come to the fray and try and explain that you're the next best thing to Einstein. LOL.
Rosemary
Why are you being so cruel?
:o
J.
truthbeknown - I am concerned - really concerned - that there are personalities on this forum and others that actively discourage experimentalists especially when they forge new fields and new grounds. All such negativity is DANGEROUSLY effective. I know the 'fight' that I had to put up else, I assure you, even my own technology - which I hasten to add is NOT as significant as this - would have been buried - ENTIRELY. Can't you guys realise how important this is? What I mean is this. It is REALLY needed to show up dissentions and detractors for what they are. If it were merely a matter of opinion - then that's fine. But when that opinion begins to matter then it definitely DOES NOT serve the interests of OU technology. And the slow systematic input of negativity and negative associations is ALL that's needed.
And when that negativity is presented with a pretended authority - then it's doubly dangerous. People can assume that there's accreditation and therefore the opinion is weighty and significant. It divides the interest into polarised camps. The rest is easy. One or other side will win and the technology is, in any event trashed. That's the danger.
I realise that I run the very real risk of being banned for being quite this outspoken. But I'd sooner run that risk than be muffled again. I lived almost 4 months under those conditions at EF.com - and I hardly progressed anything at all.
Sorry to get this far off topic. But you asked.
Kind regards,
Rosemary
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Hey Buddy, cut it out. This was tried by @alsealokin(Tinsel Koala) who used that hillbilly @overconfident, then it was tried by him impersonating Mylow, this time impersonating a schoolboy moron. This won't fly. You won't stop the reasonable from pursuing OU by playing these sick games. Don't kid yourself, many see through it. Cut it out. If Stefan wants to keep you just for some kind of amusement that's OK, otherwise he should ban you straight away.
Overconfident is hardly a hillbilly. And I'm glad to see that you'll give permission to Stefan to - as you term it 'keep' Cletus. We're all grateful for this permission. It is my opinion that Cletus' contributions here are GOLD. They're uniquely individual and they're all based on original thought. In fact the only thing that they have in common with your own work is that the logic is never evident. In Cletus' case it's because he has a unique turn of mind. In your case it's why? And where Omnibus is your experimental contibution? Not even a replication. And how much of this forum do you own - that you can indulge Steve in which members he may 'keep' as you so patronisingly put it? And to his credit I very much doubt that Cletus will ever be your 'buddy' as you term it.
I rather suspect that a member's value is to the extent that he can learn about OU technology - one way or another. So. I ask it again. What is your contribution here? Or do you pontificate from an arm chair and decide on what you think is allowable or otherwise? I'd sooner exercise my own discretion if you don't mind.
Rosemary
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It is very important to pinpoint stupid things such as this one (and some other in this forum -- she knows exactly who I mean) sooner rather than later so that no energy is wasted on dead ends. As a matter of fact to sway the OU into non-productive avenues is one of the tactics of the zealous activists trying to prevent the development in this area. Many of us recall how @alsetalokin(Tinsel Koala) used the hillbilly @overconfident and got a number of enthusiasts into his scam only to sit on the side and laugh at them. There are plenty of enthusiasts interested in OU but OU research needs more experts to get involved and to have the enthusiasts listen more carefully to them. Filling the gaps in one's understanding by pecking into google and reading about galvanic cells and so on is not the way to go. Missed years of systematic study cannot be made up by arrogance and random reading from sketchy sources on the net. That's wasting your own time as well as wasting everybody else's time.
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As for @cletushowell, as I said, either he is some very, very stupid fellow who doesn't know his place or this is an expression of some quite unoriginal approach by the zealous activists to make everybody else here look stupid. This won't pass, however, and the activists in question should hear it loud and clear.
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It is very important to pinpoint stupid things such as this one (and some other in this forum -- she knows exactly who I mean) sooner rather than later so that no energy is wasted on dead ends. As a matter of fact to sway the OU into non-productive avenues is one of the tactics of the zealous activists trying to prevent the development in this area. Many of us recall how @alsetalokin(Tinsel Koala) used the hillbilly @overconfident and got a number of enthusiasts into his scam only to sit on the side and laugh at them. There are plenty of enthusiasts interested in OU but OU research needs more experts to get involved and to have the enthusiasts listen more carefully ot them. Filling the gaps in ones understanding by pecking into google and reading about galvanic cells and so on is not the way to go. Misseg years of systematic study cannot be made up by arrogance and random reading from sketchy sources on the net. That's wasting your own time as well as wasting everybody else's time.
Another hard to follow post with very little logic and an awful lot of pretension. But I take it that there's now an outright admission of the fact that this experiment that has been put to the table - and brilliantly designed by lasersaber - is now no longer considered trivial.
And regarding the second post which I won't even bother to copy - I rather think that Omnibus is looking in a mirror and thinking aloud.
That is definitely progress.
Rosemary
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...so that no energy is wasted on dead ends... That's wasting your own time as well as wasting everybody else's time.
my time is mine to waste... as evidenced by this response to you. ::)
it is not your place to dictate what people choose to do with their time. all you are doing is demonstrating your megalomania with such comments. you have made your point, you have stated that this is not interesting to you, trivial, i believe was your choice of words. and that is all great, grand and wonderful, but as you have failed to notice, no one cares... mint?
and as an aside, please stop with this erroneous habit of referring to people as @tinselkoala, @rosemary, etc. it makes no sense. the @ symbol (in its use on the world wide web) means 'at'... as in getbent 'at' fu.com. ie: getbent@fu.com. so why are you referring to people as 'at'tinselkoala or 'at'cletushowell, etc. ad infintum? don't respond, it is a rhetorical question...
edit: corrected error, had mislabeled the @ symbol as an ampersand.
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my time is mine to waste... as evidenced by this response to you. ::)
it is not your place to dictate what people choose to do with their time. all you are doing is demonstrating your megalomania with such comments. you have made your point, you have stated that this is not interesting to you, trivial, i believe was your choice of words. and that is all great, grand and wonderful, but as you have failed to notice, no one cares... mint?
On the contrary, I have a moral obligation as an intellectual to fight for the truth and to not allow stupidity to overwhelm discussions on important matters. You may waste your time all you want but don't waste the time of others. Have no doubt, I'll confront any stupidity you try to impose on others as soon as I spot it. Am I clear?
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I will continue using @ to indicate handles, as you and everybody else should also do (by the way @ is not ampersand; ampersand is &).
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On the contrary, I have a moral obligation as an intellectual to fight for the truth and to not allow stupidity to overwhelm discussions on important matters. You may waste your time all you want but don't waste the time of others. Have no doubt, I'll confront any stupidity you try to impose on others as soon as I spot it. Am I clear?
on the contrary, my time is mine to waste. furthermore, i'm not wasting anyones time, as that is not possible. the CHOICE of what you do with your time is yours... noone can waste 'your' time unless you permit it. no, you are not clear, you are as confused as ever.
'waste' and 'stupidity' are subjective. once again you demonstrate your megalomania...
congrats, you just made my ignore list...
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on the contrary, my time is mine to waste. furthermore, i'm not wasting anyones time, as that is not possible. the CHOICE of what you do with your time is yours... noone can waste 'your' time unless you permit it. no, you are not clear, you are as confused as ever.
congrats, you just made my ignore list...
I'm on your ignore list but you're not on mine. Like I said, I'll confront relentlessly any stupidity you try to impose on others, no matter how much that sounds unpleasant to you. OU is not for stupid and incompetent people. It is hard enough to pursue to allow incompetence to be an additional hurdle. Waste your own time, don't waste the bandwidth of the forum.
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On the contrary, I have a moral obligation as an intellectual to fight for the truth and to not allow stupidity to overwhelm discussions on important matters. You may waste your time all you want but don't waste the time of others. Have no doubt, I'll confront any stupidity you try to impose on others as soon as I spot it. Am I clear?
;D Am I clear? ;D Not actually Omnibus. I'm actually rather amused at your description of yourself as an intellectual. Shouldn't you show us some evidence of more than average intellect - if you claim to be an 'intellectual'? I would have thought? And this 'fight for truth'? When you barely acquaint yourself with the facts of the case. LOL. And that you will not allow 'stupidity to overwhelm discussions' and then - on 'important matters'. LOL. It's rich. The only thing that's overwhelmed the last pages on this otherwise pristine thread - is your own stupidity.
I think it was YOU who determined that lasersaber's experiment was 'trivial' and his rights to post on his experiment - questionable. By contrast you do what? I keep asking this. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE HERE? You seem to feel you have every right to comment, rather freely at that - or fancifully - or wildly - in any event - entirely incorrectly - on an experiment where you also - self evidently - have NO knowledge the experimental apparatus or it's test objects. Then you demand irrelevant explanations for that same apparatus while you continue to parade the extent of your own ignorance and presumption.
Frankly I think it is YOUR comments that are trivial and YOUR rights to comment questionable. And I think the only person here who has shown us the most alarming level of stupidity is yourself. With respect. Actually - not so much.
Again
Rosemary
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People, cant you see that with your eternal discussion you have trashed another good topic?
Why dont you all make a topic called " lets deal our differences here " and leave other peoples thread uncluttered with your differences?
Jesus
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Hi,
I think I posted this drawing in another thread but here it is again.
The Copper and Iron together with water forms a galvanic battery.
But we also have a coil and a core so if we short circuit the coil
for a short time then we can use the changing magnetic field to
run a magnet/rotor. An insulated pickup coil can be added on the
outside of the coil for various purposes.
Groundloop.
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People, cant you see that with your eternal discussion you have trashed another good topic?
Why dont you all make a topic called " lets deal our differences here " and leave other peoples thread uncluttered with your differences?
Jesus
Jesus - I've seen this kind of blanket criticism before. Are you saying that we must allow unsolicited and unwarranted criticisms against any technology? That none of us must do anything about it. Just let it hang there? Gathering dust and killing threads? Interesting. And that we must do NOTHING to speak out against this? And who then benefits? OU? Open source? Those experimentalists who've sacrificed their time and trouble to bring their technologies to the table?
I put it to you that if one did not actively challenge the detractors to these new technologies then one may as well close up shop and stop trying to advance clean green. And it is my opinion that very often those detractors are simply anxious to 'be heard' - which is dangerously self-serving if, in being 'heard' they're detracting from the very subject that needs nurture and support.
And it's no picnic to stand up and defend. Nice to keep one's nose clean and not get involved - but it serves no purpose in advancing these delicate realities that those, such as lasersaber are bringing to the table. Pirate was able to point out the requirement for checking the water content of the device without offending anyone. I earnestly suggest that it's possible to do so at all levels and as required. But when the detraction is done with the censorial - ill advised - liberal criticisms that Omnibus enjoys - then I think it is better that such attitudes be addressed. Lest this technology be damned before it comes to fruition.
So. Tell me how you would check this inevitable 'attack' that seems to follow in the footsteps of really desirable technology. If you have an answer I really want to hear it.
Rosemary
Edited. May I just add - that it's very smug to disassociate oneself from the quarrel - but what purpose does that serve if it also kills the technology? I'm afraid that this is one subject that one actually NEEDS to protect if it is to survive at all. And I speak with authority. I KNOW that my own poor contributions to these efforts would have died - entirely - had I not confronted a SLEW of attacks. And I suspect that Dave Lambright's extraordinary device would have died an untimely death on EF.com if we had not faught the good fight. It's required - is my take. Or there will be precisely NO progress in a field of endeavour that really is already fraught with scepticism and detractors all with their own multitude of varying objectives.
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sorry guys a duplicate post
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@ GroundLoop
I love your drawing of the Stubblefield coil. I did take the liberty to make some modifications to represent the way my own coil is functioning. First off, all my wires are exiting on the same end of the coil (this is also how it is pictured in the patent). Secondly, while I did put a secondary on the coil in the begining, I soon unwound it and I never did use it to power the pulse motor. My motor has always been powered by the primary windings themselves. Third, as has been mentioned earlier, the coil is running dry. I did origionally wet it in salt water, but since then I have not added any water at all. It's been 75 days now running dry, though I am sure that air humidity is maintaining a low level of moisture in the coil.
BTW, this is what I meant when I used the term "self-runner" - that it is currently running on it's own without active input. It still remains to be seen how long it will run like that. Again, I do not claim that this is OU. Personally, I do believe a certain amount of galvanic action is taking place, but I still find it fascinating that the coil is able to run for so long without having to add moisture. I am not trying to prove anything or to win any prize - it's just my hobby which I am sharing with others who find it interesting.
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Quote from Groundloop:
The Copper and Iron together with water forms a galvanic battery.
But we also have a coil and a core so if we short circuit the coil
for a short time then we can use the changing magnetic field to
run a magnet/rotor. An insulated pickup coil can be added on the
outside of the coil for various purposes.
@Lasersaber - great work!
Thanks GL for the visual - very helpful.
Would it be reasonable to propose that a properly wound pickup coil might be driven to resonance?
I'm thinking about Gerry Vassilatos' account of Stubblefield heating his cabin with 2 polished metal plates - presumably drawing on SEB technology - and wondering if resonance could be a key factor here. By driving the pickup coils to resonance, if only in brief pulses, is it possible that a kind of access point to the aether's inpouring of energy is actualized. I believe it could account for the heating of plates and much more.
Edit: clarification added.
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Hi lasersaber
I see in your videos that there's early evidence of current and voltage in the windings without any water at all. Have you tried this - ever - without using any water on the coil?
Regards,
Rosemary
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@Rosemary
I have tested voltage on brand new, unwet coils, but I don't remember the exact results. I'm currently winding some more minicoils for my latest project. I'll test one of them dry before wetting it down at all. I'll post any results when I have them.
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@Rosemary
I have tested voltage on brand new, unwet coils, but I don't remember the exact results. I'm currently winding some more minicoils for my latest project. I'll test one of them dry before wetting it down at all. I'll post any results when I have them.
Many thanks
Rosemary
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Here are some photos of my crude attempts at this from a while ago. As I have said, we all did learn a few things and, yes my coil, seen here with one layer of windings only, did have an output after building and before placing in the ground, when it was totally dry.
So to answer a few questions asked of me here, yes, the 2 metals are totally insulated from each other and yes there was a dry output, although not as much as after I wet it and let it dry. No other electrolyte was added.
Lasersaber put it best and it basically summed up our understanding of this coil from back then in that it is partially some sort of galvanic reaction and also it is something else. Otherwise, if galvanic was all this ever was, why would NS's coils not break down after years in the ground? Maybe it is a very, very efficient type of controlled galvanic reaction? I do not really know and do not claim to know.
The 2nd and 3rd photos are of my larger coil which actually has 2 layers of primary such that all the wire ends can be on the same end as NS has done it and now Lasersaber. The max. mA's output from this small coil was 47.2. The core was a galvanized iron spike that had very strong attraction to my test neos in the store.
I hope this answers those questions asked of me but, I am telling you that Lasersaber is setting the pace here and is far beyond what our group was able to do. My suggestion is that for those that see this as I, and many others do, keep following and try replicating. For those who think it is nothing new and not worthy of messing with....then don't.
Bill
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The secret is in the rust.
When I was searching for iron oxide, I came across a page that said that iron oxide is like miniature diodes. A crystal diode inside a crystal radio works without any batteries or galvanic cells. Maybe that's what's happening when the coil dries out? It converts ambient rf along with the back emf from the coil and it keeps on running.
A crystal radio works better with a good ground rod, maybe try grounding out a coil or ? and see if it improves.
Better yet check out this page:
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/ntype-nr.htm
He used galvanized iron wire and ALUMINUM wire and made a NEGATIVE RESISTOR.
Someone else made a negative resistor by heating up galvanized sheet metal till it turned black and those little black spots had negative resistor characteristics.
Maybe wind a galvanized steel wire and copper coil and heat them both with a propane torch till they have brown/black oxides on them and see if it runs any better/longer. I would definitely try the galvanized wire and aluminum coil for sure.
See page 25 on this homemade diode pdf, it says that steel corrosion (rust) is a negative resistor....hmmmm
(This pdf file is 3.9M long, I would post a snapshot of the page but don't know how)
http://softsolder.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/diy-diodes-nisley.pdf
Lasersaber, damm good work man! You're definitely on to something there!
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Yaz,
Great post! This gives me a lot to look into and some new ideas for experiments. I really appreciate your input.
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What I usually do with a bad post is I just ignore it and the person goes away.
If you get involved it is like putting logs on a dying fire.
Post only things that help the topic like graphics or photos, even a schematic.
The person will see that you support the topic without getting involved with the person on a long discussion that apports nothing to the cause.
For me this died here. I just want to get the energy problem solved.
Jesus
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Hi lasersaber
I watched all your five videos on how to make the coil, very well presented and easy to follow.
Have you ever tried running 2 magnet rotors one at each end of the coil, if this was to work would you find that the rotors rotate in opposite directions to each other ? only a thought.
The little baby coil you made is looking great and performing very well for its size compared to the big one
all the best
cat
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@lasersaber,
You are doing great work. Be prepared to wait a very long time before
you motor is running to a stop. Also, thank you for the clarification of
your now dry salt water NS coil.
Keep up your great work.
Groundloop.
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Here are some photos of my crude attempts at this from a while ago. As I have said, we all did learn a few things and, yes my coil, seen here with one layer of windings only, did have an output after building and before placing in the ground, when it was totally dry.
So to answer a few questions asked of me here, yes, the 2 metals are totally insulated from each other and yes there was a dry output, although not as much as after I wet it and let it dry. No other electrolyte was added.
Lasersaber put it best and it basically summed up our understanding of this coil from back then in that it is partially some sort of galvanic reaction and also it is something else. Otherwise, if galvanic was all this ever was, why would NS's coils not break down after years in the ground? Maybe it is a very, very efficient type of controlled galvanic reaction? I do not really know and do not claim to know.
The 2nd and 3rd photos are of my larger coil which actually has 2 layers of primary such that all the wire ends can be on the same end as NS has done it and now Lasersaber. The max. mA's output from this small coil was 47.2. The core was a galvanized iron spike that had very strong attraction to my test neos in the store.
I hope this answers those questions asked of me but, I am telling you that Lasersaber is setting the pace here and is far beyond what our group was able to do. My suggestion is that for those that see this as I, and many others do, keep following and try replicating. For those who think it is nothing new and not worthy of messing with....then don't.
Bill
Hi Bill. Was rather distracted and missed this post entirely. Very interesting indeed. Especially the point that the voltage/amperage is evident on a dry coil. I saw that in lasersaber's video as well. The thing that intrigues me is this. The voltage level is evident from the first coil turning. Then it increases - presumably at a fixed rate - with each subsequent turn. But the voltage is then increased with the damping so one may assume that there is some kind of galvanic action. Frankly to establish what actually is going on here one would need to wrap a coil with only copper - then only iron - both with and without the secondary - and both with and without the damping - to really evaluate what's going on.
If it persists with only the copper winding or only with the iron winding - then we are simply looking at collapsing fields - basic inductive technologies - that is enabling this. That would be a massive prize - even if the fields are ultra weak. Provided it spins that rotor then there's potentially usable energy. If the two metals are required - but they work without water - then we've still got a breakthrough. It would mean that we can generate energy without the complication of that acid or alkaline mix in regular battery technology. I'm hopeful here - only because of the one video I saw where a second coil was introduced and it was pure copper and it seemed to act like a booster to the general efficiencies.
And finally - if it requires the rust and the rest - then we've got a rather long series of tests to actually isolate what's happening. But I'm up for it. I need to lean on the goodwill of a friend of mine that I can use his labs. My time is pretty constrained at the moment - but for this I'll definitely try and 'fit in' and will post results. I'll do that copper - then iron - then both 'combo' - to check it out. But I need guidance with the magnet rotor number. What is the material of the magnet holder and what positions does one put those magnets? Are the opposing? like? - perhaps lasersaber can advise us.
Kindest regards
Rosie
edited
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Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5XoxYAmaJQ
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Great stuff lasersaber. Are those coils 'damped' at all?
Regards,
Rosemary
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Sorry to impose lasersaber - but another question. My eyesight is awful. I heard you say that with the two windings the one goes underneath the other? But what I see on both yours and Bill's coils is that the wires are side by side? Please advise which is correct. I can't quite tell from the pictures.
Kindest again
Rosemary
OH. And BTW. Please give me some idea about the rotor construct - material and positioning of the magentic poles. Sorry if you've explained this before. I just didn't pick up on it. I get it that there's a bearing positioned in the middle to hold the pin.
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Rosemary,
The easiest way to make a low friction rotor is to disassemble
a computer fan. Take out the electronics, the toroid magnet and
cut of the fan blades. Glue Neo magnets on the outside of remaining hub.
If you use a fan that have two ball bearings then apply some lubricant
to the bearings before assembling the fan again. (Not needed on a new fan.)
Groundloop.
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Whenever I search for iron/metal rods they all have code numbers.
What is soft iron: "1018 Cold Rolled Steel Round Bar"?
Or something else.
I'm not looking for a core thats "good enough".
I want to buy what works "best" for the core and if it's too expensive what's "second best". ;D
What size (AWG) copper cotton insulated wire and iron wire to buy and where to buy if possible?
Thank you,
DonL
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;D Am I clear? ;D Not actually Omnibus. I'm actually rather amused at your description of yourself as an intellectual. Shouldn't you show us some evidence of more than average intellect - if you claim to be an 'intellectual'? I would have thought? And this 'fight for truth'? When you barely acquaint yourself with the facts of the case. LOL. And that you will not allow 'stupidity to overwhelm discussions' and then - on 'important matters'. LOL. It's rich. The only thing that's overwhelmed the last pages on this otherwise pristine thread - is your own stupidity.
I think it was YOU who determined that lasersaber's experiment was 'trivial' and his rights to post on his experiment - questionable. By contrast you do what? I keep asking this. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE HERE? You seem to feel you have every right to comment, rather freely at that - or fancifully - or wildly - in any event - entirely incorrectly - on an experiment where you also - self evidently - have NO knowledge the experimental apparatus or it's test objects. Then you demand irrelevant explanations for that same apparatus while you continue to parade the extent of your own ignorance and presumption.
Frankly I think it is YOUR comments that are trivial and YOUR rights to comment questionable. And I think the only person here who has shown us the most alarming level of stupidity is yourself. With respect. Actually - not so much.
Again
Rosemary
Nonsense. Read what I write and try to understand it. This thread is about a proposed experiment and it is obvious that the experiment in question is trivial and should not be encouraged. On the other hand, what I've done in the area of OU is not the subject of this thread and only a stupid person will try such an attack at someone pointing the irrelevance of the proposal at hand.
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Here are some photos of my crude attempts at this from a while ago. As I have said, we all did learn a few things and, yes my coil, seen here with one layer of windings only, did have an output after building and before placing in the ground, when it was totally dry.
So to answer a few questions asked of me here, yes, the 2 metals are totally insulated from each other and yes there was a dry output, although not as much as after I wet it and let it dry. No other electrolyte was added.
Lasersaber put it best and it basically summed up our understanding of this coil from back then in that it is partially some sort of galvanic reaction and also it is something else. Otherwise, if galvanic was all this ever was, why would NS's coils not break down after years in the ground? Maybe it is a very, very efficient type of controlled galvanic reaction? I do not really know and do not claim to know.
The 2nd and 3rd photos are of my larger coil which actually has 2 layers of primary such that all the wire ends can be on the same end as NS has done it and now Lasersaber. The max. mA's output from this small coil was 47.2. The core was a galvanized iron spike that had very strong attraction to my test neos in the store.
I hope this answers those questions asked of me but, I am telling you that Lasersaber is setting the pace here and is far beyond what our group was able to do. My suggestion is that for those that see this as I, and many others do, keep following and try replicating. For those who think it is nothing new and not worthy of messing with....then don't.
Bill
I disagree that this question should be left hanging and those who don't understand that galvanic potentials are trivial should be left unchecked. First it should be understood that wetting the separator, that is, making the two dissimilar metals in contact through an electrolyte disqualifies at once the setup in question as being an OU. Therefore, experiments with wet separators should never be mentioned in the context of OU (unless some extremely precise measurements are made, beyond the scope of this discussion, showing OU; without such any implying that a wet cell may be OU is plain wrong).
Secondly, I disagree that @laseraber is setting the pace in this. if what you say is real then you would be the one setting the pace (@laseraber's being being only a forseeable application of what you've done). Therefore, it is extremely important to go back to your experiments and verify especially that the metals are in no contact whatsoever and that you can measure a potential even when the coil placed in a Faraday cage.
As for the setup remaining intact despite the galvanic potentials developed across, it is quite usual -- think about the amalgam fillings some people have or the various dentures -- galvanic potentials are there and yet the dentures and the fillings remain intact for years. In fact changing them is never because of the galvanic potentials developing.
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Nonsense. Read what I write and try to understand it. This thread is about a proposed experiment and it is obvious that the experiment in question is trivial and should not be encouraged. On the other hand, what I've done in the area of OU is not the subject of this thread and only a stupid person will try such an attack at someone pointing the irrelevance of the proposal at hand.
Really petty uncool and unnecessary. This guy didn't have to post his experiment here, and clearly stated it's not OU. How about you produce a working OU device, not just data, or shut up.
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Really petty uncool and unnecessary. This guy didn't have to post his experiment here, and clearly stated it's not OU. How about you produce a working OU device, not just data, or shut up.
It doesn't matter what the guy stated or didn't state. What matters is the reality of the claim in the title of this thread. The shown device isn't a self-runner because the motor is driven by a galvanic cell. What's potentially interesting is @pirate88179's work but there's more to be understood about it.
Also, like I said, what I've done in the OU field is irrelevant here because this thread is about something else.
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Hi guys,
I see now that there's no silencing our resident troll. I think I need to follow Wilby's example and put him on my ignore list. Not sure how to do this but will give it my best shot.
Meanwhile to others who may also feel their hackles rise at such excessive sanctimonious smug ignornace displayed so frequently and so compulsively - may I suggest you do the same. Alternatively, just ignore his posts. Maybe he'll learn that he's really not wanted.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Rosemary,
The easiest way to make a low friction rotor is to disassemble
a computer fan. Take out the electronics, the toroid magnet and
cut of the fan blades. Glue Neo magnets on the outside of remaining hub.
If you use a fan that have two ball bearings then apply some lubricant
to the bearings before assembling the fan again. (Not needed on a new fan.)
Groundloop.
Hi Groundloop. What a comfort to see you're a member here as well. Thanks for the advices. I'm not sure where to find a computer to disassemble though. LOL. It'll be easier for me to buy the stuff or manufacture them.
But I'll ask around.
Many thanks ;D
Rosemary
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Computer fans are very inexpensive and should be very easy to find near you. Otherwise you can order them on the internet. In the USA they cost as little as $9.00. Try any store that sells or repairs computers.
J.
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Computer fans are very inexpensive and should be very easy to find near you. Otherwise you can order them on the internet. In the USA they cost as little as $9.00
J.
Thanks truthbeknown. I'll check it out. I have a friend here whom I'm sure will know where to go.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Hi Groundloop. What a comfort to see you're a member here as well. Thanks for the advices. I'm not sure where to find a computer to disassemble though. LOL. It'll be easier for me to buy the stuff or manufacture them.
But I'll ask around.
Many thanks ;D
Rosemary
Don't call people who criticize nonsense trolls. You are an impudent person who has no shame. Being incompetent as you are the prudent thing to do is be silent and try to learn something rather than overwhelm the net with your gibberish.
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I disagree that this question should be left hanging and those who don't understand that galvanic potentials are trivial should be left unchecked. First it should be understood that wetting the separator, that is, making the two dissimilar metals in contact through an electrolyte disqualifies at once the setup in question as being an OU. Therefore, experiments with wet separators should never be mentioned in the context of OU (unless some extremely precise measurements are made, beyond the scope of this discussion, showing OU; without such any implying that a wet cell may be OU is plain wrong).
Secondly, I disagree that @laseraber is setting the pace in this. if what you say is real then you would be the one setting the pace (@laseraber's being being only a forseeable application of what you've done). Therefore, it is extremely important to go back to your experiments and verify especially that the metals are in no contact whatsoever and that you can measure a potential even when the coil placed in a Faraday cage.
As for the setup remaining intact despite the galvanic potentials developed across, it is quite usual -- think about the amalgam fillings some people have or the various dentures -- galvanic potentials are there and yet the dentures and the fillings remain intact for years. In fact changing them is never because of the galvanic potentials developing.
Omni:
We can agree to disagree then. lasersaber is not replicating mine, or anyone from our group's work, he is replicating Nathan Stubblefield's work. I want to be clear on that. My efforts were kind of cheesy as I was using parts I could locate around here easily and most probably not the best ones for the job.
It did serve as a proof of concept however and we learned that more experiments needed to be done.
I can assure you that there is no contact on the metals in any of my coils because, if you build one, and it does not work, the first thing you do is a continuity check to find the short. So, if it works at all...no contact. I never ever even tried a secondary because although we had some ideas in our group, no one ever built a make/break device so a secondary was useless to us at that point.
This is where Laser has taken this to the next level and then some. He used materials true to the NS original coil and also devised a make/break device.
All of my earth battery experiment videos lighting leds from JT's is from a different way of generating energy. I went with the electrode approach which, interestingly enough, also exhibits some galvanic reactions and some not. It has been working now for almost 3 years. Many folks back then said the magnesium would break down in a few days...well... it has not. Others claimed I was tapping into a "leak" from the power company although my scope shots showed much higher freqs. then 60 hz. and none at 60 hz. I have not tried that in a Faraday cage but then again, it is in the ground and I am not sure that would be possible to do.
Bill
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Omni:
We can agree to disagree then. lasersaber is not replicating mine, or anyone from our group's work, he is replicating Nathan Stubblefield's work. I want to be clear on that. My efforts were kind of cheesy as I was using parts I could locate around here easily and most probably not the best ones for the job.
It did serve as a proof of concept however and we learned that more experiments needed to be done.
I can assure you that there is no contact on the metals in any of my coils because, if you build one, and it does not work, the first thing you do is a continuity check to find the short. So, if it works at all...no contact. I never ever even tried a secondary because although we had some ideas in our group, no one ever built a make/break device so a secondary was useless to us at that point.
This is where Laser has taken this to the next level and then some. He used materials true to the NS original coil and also devised a make/break device.
All of my earth battery experiment videos lighting leds from JT's is from a different way of generating energy. I went with the electrode approach which, interestingly enough, also exhibits some galvanic reactions and some not. It has been working now for almost 3 years. Many folks back then said the magnesium would breakТ down in a few days...well... it has not. Others claimed I was tapping into a "leak" from the power company although my scope shots showed much higher freqs. then 60 hz. and none at 60 hz. I have not tried that in a Faraday cage but then again, it is in the ground and I am not sure that would be possible to do.
Bill
Like I said @laseraber's work deserves no attention since it's just powering a motor with an energy source. Your experiments are earlier than his and they are about the very essence of things and therefore are of real importance. I'd be very interested to learn more after your assurance in the last post that there's no contact between the metals and yet you can measure a potential difference. Is it possible to redo some of these experiments, placing the coil in a Faraday cage, and then possibly send one coil to me to study it (I'm in Europe right now but I'll be back in a moth or so)?
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@oblivious
Thanks for your input , but it dose seem that no one cares about your post or opinion for that mater , why are you apparently lowering your self to reason with deluded people ?You have better things to do here .You are a great asset ? Do good show them better! Don't shout that they failed because you have no part in there work ...
I for one am pleased to see a Ns coil working , you can't even see that in a museum !
Now can't you get people's attention in other ways than attacking them ?
Take a break , stop posting here or it will be clear that you are a paid troll .
Only some one that gets paid could bother that much , or a juvenile or else ..
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@oblivious
Thanks for your input , but it dose seem that no one cares about your post or opinion for that mater , why are you apparently lowering your self to reason with deluded people ?You have better things to do here .You are a great asset ? Do good show them better! Don't shout that they failed because you have no part in there work ...
I for one am pleased to see a Ns coil working , you can't even see that in a museum !
Now can't you get people's attention in other ways than attacking them ?
Take a break , stop posting here or it will be clear that you are a paid troll .
Only some one that gets paid could bother that much , or a juvenile or else ..
It isn't at all obvious that the coil in question works as claimed. So far, aside from @pirate88179's assurance, it it appears to be a galvanic cell. Note, we're talking about the coil, not about it's application such as that by @laseraber. Like I said, if there were anything interesting about it it would be @pirate88179's research and that has to be pursued until we get to the bottom of it.
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It doesn't matter what the guy stated or didn't state. What matters is the reality of the claim in the title of this thread. The shown device isn't a self-runner because the motor is driven by a galvanic cell. What's potentially interesting is @pirate88179's work but there's more to be understood about it.
Also, like I said, what I've done in the OU field is irrelevant here because this thread is about something else.
It only matters to someone who insists on being extremely immature. He clearly stated it is NOT OU. Drop it already.
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It only matters to someone who insists on being extremely immature. He clearly stated it is NOT OU. Drop it already.
If it's not OU as he claims it, why bother? That guy has no clue to deserve citing what he says. Drop it.
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If it's not OU as he claims it, why bother? That guy has no clue to deserve citing what he says. Drop it.
You don't like the way he worded the thread, yet he makes it clear he is not claiming OU. Really shabby jealousy.
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You don't like the way he worded the thread, yet he makes it clear he is not claiming OU. Really shabby jealousy.
Trivialities cannot invoke jealousy. This is a useless thread and that should be stated clearly. I wish @pirate88179 opens a thread to discuss his experiments with the coil, especially if he decides to continue them. The only use of this thread would be if @pirate88179 decides to post here his results instead of owning of new thread, to keep everything in one place.
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I have watched all videos now and I also think that the moisture persists for a long time within the different layers of the coil. It remembers when I put once copper and iron into box with wet sand and could measure some voltage for some months time. And exactly this seems to happen in here, which is nothing unusal I'm afraid. The solution with salt water will most likely only dry out on the outside, but not on the inside completely. As powerthecat already mentioned, it is difficult enough to remove moisture from the inside of a transformer. With this kind of NS coil it's even more diffcult.
Also I agree with omnibus that you need to enclose the device in a faraday cage. Make sure you are not in the near of an electrical distribution board. I experienced myself that I could pickup a decent amount of voltage and current by just having a long cable next to some board, as well as in a distance of 1-2m. Since you have quite along cable (coil) this device will act as an antenna and pickup electromagnetic waves very easily! This is most likely the reason why it even works in a dry state.
Of course a faraday cage will also dismiss natural electromagnetic waves, but you'd need to go into the desert to prove the influences. I agree though that this device is interesting, but all in all it seems to be a galvanic cell only (wet state), or anj EMF pickup antenna (dry state). :(
If it is possible to gain enough power for many month or even a year just by using this device and putting it into a box so that it is shielded from wind, I could imagine further use though. For now the "motor" however seems to be quite weak. Even a small flat battery cell has more power than this big device as can be seen in one of "lidmotors" replications. Therefore it needs lots of coils :-\
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There is someone attacking this thread but it is very clear by his own words that what he wants is a free meal.
Is it possible to redo some of these experiments, placing the coil in a Faraday cage, and then possibly send one coil to me to study it (I'm in Europe right now but I'll be back in a moth or so)?
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Trivialities cannot invoke jealousy. This is a useless thread and that should be stated clearly. I wish @pirate88179 opens a thread to discuss his experiments with the coil, especially if he decides to continue them. The only use of this thread would be if @pirate88179 decides to post here his results instead of owning of new thread, to keep everything in one place.
This 'triviality' does.
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This 'triviality' does.
Don't project onto others your own stupidity.
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There is someone attacking this thread but it is very clear by his own words that what he wants is a free meal.
Where's the free meal, buddy? There's not even a meal yet.
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Don't project onto others your own stupidity.
Take the juvenile temper tantrums and psychotic jealousy to another messageboard, Omnibus.
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Omni:
Please to not refer to my ham and egg experiments with the NS coil as possibly significant. Lasersaber has long past anything I have done do date with this device...and by far.
Also, not to get into semantics here but, he does not claim OU. He has said so both here and in his videos. The topic title proclaiming self-running is accurate in my opinion as, that appears to be exactly what it is doing. The truth is, or at least I suspect this to be the truth, Lasersaber does not know how long this thing will run. We, thanks to him, are learning this along with him.
Me? I would have been thrilled if I built a similar device and it turned for 8 hours. This man has one running for over a month and no one, including him, knows how long it will go.
I would submit that this is free energy along the same lines as solar power. Not OU, at least not so far. I have no problems with the way Lasersaber has presented his experiments here at all. On the contrary, I applaud him for doing these experiments and sharing with everyone here.
With all due respect Ominbus, why not build a replication yourself? With your background, you may see something here that has been missed, as you did with the Steorn device. I mean, what if this spins for 5 years? Is that not important? Plus, please remember that his coil is not even in the ground which opens up another entire series of possibilities.
Just food for thought.
Bill
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Take the juvenile temper tantrums and psychotic jealousy to another messageboard, Omnibus.
Stop filling the thread with your blabber. Go somewhere else with your nonsense.
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How come a motor powered by a galvanic cell be a self-runner? This is not semantics. If this is not understood (that a galvanic cell powered device is not a self-runner) why are we all here? Just to supply the zealous activists with more arguments that the OU community are a bunch of morons, is that it? Please don's support incompetence. Aggressive amateurs are not to be encouraged, especially when dealing with topics in the sensitive territory of research we are in.
As for your coil, I will not do it because I don't believe two metals just running parallel to each other and not in contact can be a power source. You have to show me that that's the case. It's up to you to prove it and if you do that it would be really substantial. Someone showing a motor powered by a battery is not substantial at all. It cannot even be compared to the free energy from sun and wind. That's how unimportant and trivial that is. Please check again your coil and make sure it isn't a galvanic cell and also that it isn't picking up energy from a nearby source of electromagnetic waves (you may recall we had several years ago such case and initially it caused quite a stir in this forum only to be found that it is some trivial antennae type of a device).
It's high time to start distinguishing what is and what isn't important in all these claims so that less time and effort is wasted in dead ends and some real progress be made.
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Stop filling the thread with your blabber. Go somewhere else with your nonsense.
Grow up Omnibus.
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Grow up Omnibus.
Stop cluttering the thread with nonsense.
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The experiment proposed in this thread isn't even as interesting as the experiment for kids called 'lemon battery' used to arize their interest in science: http://hilaroad.com/camp/projects/lemon/lemon_battery.html . The incompetence displayed in this exchange is just pathetic.
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Stop cluttering the thread with nonsense.
You mean like taking up pages over the title of this thread when he made it clear it's not OU? Who cares about you, your ego, or your perceived self-importance. No one. Either present a working OU device or stop whining like a baby.
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You mean like taking up pages over the title of this thread when he made it clear it's not OU? Who cares about you, your ego, or your perceived self-importance. No one. Either present a working OU device or stop whining like a baby.
Who cares about you, is the point. A nobody impudently cluttering the thread with crap.
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Who cares about you, is the point. A nobody impudently cluttering the thread with crap.
I don't require anyone to care about me. You demand worship and have done nothing but fill this otherwise interesting thread with megalomaniacal crying. We saw your experimental data, now go make a working device and stop the childish competition.
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I don't require anyone to care about me. You demand worship and have done nothing but fill this otherwise interesting thread with megalomaniacal crying. We saw your experimental data, now go make a working device and stop the childish competition.
So, then, go away and don't clutter the thread with crap.
There's nothing interesting in the proposed device, as explained thoroughly, and your crap won't change that fact.
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So, then, go away and don't clutter the thread with crap.
There's nothing interesting in the proposed device, as explained thoroughly, and your crap won't change that fact.
That's where you're wrong. It's a VERY interesting device. It's not interesting to YOU. If the coil really is dry, I've never seen a working version, nor have you. Your OPINION is not the voice of God, sorry to break it to you.
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Guys - this is weird. On so many levels. Omnibus is a long time member - in excess of 4000 posts. How has he retained his membership if his behaviour here is a sample of his usual behaviour? Just think about it. And then, let's recap. I question the right of any member to hijack someone's thread and dictate what he may or may not post. I also question the need to replace interest in lasersaber's device with Bill's device - however meritorious. YET. This is precisely what Omnibus does. No apologies. No by your leave. Just does it. And then under the pretense that the Joule Thief topic - which has run for years without any interruption - now supplant this thread topic.
I would say this about it. I suspect that Omnibus is an owner of this forum - else he would not be so untrammeled with his demands. And indeed I now think he has every right to determine who may or may not remain a member. But more so is this concern. The issue at hand is whether or not lasersaber is able to operate that motor without the use of water. If he does then he's under absolutely no obligation to tell you me or Omnibus anything more or less about it than he chooses. Yet Omnibus seems to think that he's in a position to DEMAND to know and even to get receipt of that device to assess it for himself? He's either mad or he's well used to getting his way. And if its the latter then does he, in fact, have some kind of ownership here? He is - quite frankly - the only member I've ever encountered who says exactly what he pleases without any reach to any kind of courtesy whatsoever. Clearly in breach of forum rules - yet dictating his demands. WHO other than Omnibus DARES hijack a thread from one member and then DEMAND that another takes over? It's about as appalling as it can get.
Which brings me back to an ongoing concern. What are these forums actually about? And is Omnibus an owner of this forum? He allows 'cletus' and protects you all from those such as me - who is described as an example of a deluded 'zealot' I think he puts it. Frankly I'm rather glad that lasersaber is NOT informing us about whether or not the coil is wet or dry. And perhaps it would be as well to keep it that way. I seriously doubt there is any intention here other than to entirely DISCREDIT or DESTROY whatever it is that labersaber is showing. And If I disappear from this forum - then KNOW that these suspicions may very well be right. I certainly HOPE NOT. But I also know that there has been NOTHING that I have seen, and I've seen a lot, that quite matches this extraordinary license that Omnibus seems to allow himself. It beggars belief.
Regards,
Rosemary
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How come a motor powered by a galvanic cell be a self-runner? This is not semantics. If this is not understood (that a galvanic cell powered device is not a self-runner) why are we all here? Just to supply the zealous activists with more arguments that the OU community are a bunch of morons, is that it? Please don's support incompetence. Aggressive amateurs are not to be encouraged, especially when dealing with topics in the sensitive territory of research we are in.
As for your coil, I will not do it because I don't believe two metals just running parallel to each other and not in contact can be a power source. You have to show me that that's the case. It's up to you to prove it and if you do that it would be really substantial. Someone showing a motor powered by a battery is not substantial at all. It cannot even be compared to the free energy from sun and wind. That's how unimportant and trivial that is. Please check again your coil and make sure it isn't a galvanic cell and also that it isn't picking up energy from a nearby source of electromagnetic waves (you may recall we had several years ago such case and initially it caused quite a stir in this forum only to be found that it is some trivial antennae type of a device).
It's high time to start distinguishing what is and what isn't important in all these claims so that less time and effort is wasted in dead ends and some real progress be made.
If you have read or are familiar with the Nathan Stubblefield Earth Battery Self Induction Coils topic located here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.0 (http://index.php?topic=3500.0)
you can see all of the research done on the patents and the devices. This took a long time to compile this information. Did you know that Stubblefield is recognized here in Kentucky, at Murry University, as the Father of Radio? His voice transmissions preceded both Tesla and Marconi by several years. He sent the transmission through the earth and his transmitter was powered by the Stubblefield cells. He also installed the telephone system in Murry, KY and powered the entire system from his earth batteries. He also lit his farm and heated his home using nothing but his earth batteries/Stubblefield coils.
So, we know there is something to all of this. There was NO grid power in his area of the state at that time and therefore no radio/tv transmitters either and yet he said you can get all of the amps you need from the earth for free, and he did.
This is why I do not see the need for the Faraday cage experiments as I am satisfied that is not where the energy is coming from.
With a little reading on Stubblefield, you will see why this is all so very cool to finally be replicated by lasersaber. It worked back in the late 1800's and it works today.
Bill
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Why the Stubblefield Magnet Motor devised by Lasersaber is very interesting and an important development:
I am referring to Lasersaber's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMoaDXyFZU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMoaDXyFZU) which shows a Baby Stubblefield Coil driving a Magnet Motor by help of two reed switches.
It is important to understand that the two reed switches close one after the other and never at the same time. One reed switch causes the Stubblefield coil to attract the magnet (the magnet just nearing the core of the coil) and the other reed switch causes the Stubblefield coil to push the magnet away (once the magnet has just passed the core of the Stubblefield coil).
Look at the attached circuit diagram and you will see that the reed switches switch "open circuits". And this is exactly the interesting thing.
There is some galvanic reaction happening, but the open circuits and the magnetic reaction are the new discovery.
Is this Over Unity? Much to early to tell!
Lasersaber demonstrates that a Stubblefield Coil can really do something, namely turn a magnet motor. This is an important first step and guides us to further studies and tests.
Lasersaber shows in his video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo how a secondary can be used to harvest electricity (blinking LED) from the automatically switched coil, and such pointing to further developments.
A further direction to go would be an attempt to replace the reed switches by transistors because the switching of the "open circuits" could then happen much faster and a longer time than with the rather slow and not very long lasting reed switches. The electricity for the transistors (and the timing) could come from pickup coils placed near the magnet motor (as long as the pickup coils do not stop the motor).
An other approach could be to dispense with the magnet motor and to try other switching means like two coils switching each other (would need transistor switching, but I have no idea how that could be done). One could even use a battery to drive the switching and one would see how much electricity can then be generated by secondaries. May be we will have OU in this way (little energy for switching and lots of energy from secondaries).
Greetings, Conrad
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Guys - this is weird. On so many levels. Omnibus is a long time member - in excess of 4000 posts. How has he retained his membership if his behaviour here is a sample of his usual behaviour? Just think about it. And then, let's recap. I question the right of any member to hijack someone's thread and dictate what he may or may not post. I also question the need to replace interest in lasersaber's device with Bill's device - however meritorious. YET. This is precisely what Omnibus does. No apologies. No by your leave. Just does it. And then under the pretense that the Joule Thief topic - which has run for years without any interruption - now supplant this thread topic.
I would say this about it. I suspect that Omnibus is an owner of this forum - else he would not be so untrammeled with his demands. And indeed I now think he has every right to determine who may or may not remain a member. But more so is this concern. The issue at hand is whether or not lasersaber is able to operate that motor without the use of water. If he does then he's under absolutely no obligation to tell you me or Omnibus anything more or less about it than he chooses. Yet Omnibus seems to think that he's in a position to DEMAND to know and even to get receipt of that device to assess it for himself? He's either mad or he's well used to getting his way. And if its the latter then does he, in fact, have some kind of ownership here? He is - quite frankly - the only member I've ever encountered who says exactly what he pleases without any reach to any kind of courtesy whatsoever. Clearly in breach of forum rules - yet dictating his demands. WHO other than Omnibus DARES hijack a thread from one member and then DEMAND that another takes over? It's about as appalling as it can get.
Which brings me back to an ongoing concern. What are these forums actually about? And is Omnibus an owner of this forum? He allows 'cletus' and protects you all from those such as me - who is described as an example of a deluded 'zealot' I think he puts it. Frankly I'm rather glad that lasersaber is NOT informing us about whether or not the coil is wet or dry. And perhaps it would be as well to keep it that way. I seriously doubt there is any intention here other than to entirely DISCREDIT or DESTROY whatever it is that labersaber is showing. And If I disappear from this forum - then KNOW that these suspicions may very well be right. I certainly HOPE NOT. But I also know that there has been NOTHING that I have seen, and I've seen a lot, that quite matches this extraordinary license that Omnibus seems to allow himself. It beggars belief.
Regards,
Rosemary
This is impudent to clog the bandwidth with so much off topic crap. That should stop and that's being said from a reasonable standpoint. Are you the owner of the forum to be so overwhelming and trying to take control of the discussions? You should be the least person to do that because you have proven your utter incompetence, arrogantly imposing it on the OU community. What nerve!
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Now I understand why you have been banned in another forum. This should happen here too. OU research and discussions have no use for arrogant incompetents, very aggressive at that, such as you.
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This is impudent to clog the bandwidth with so much off topic crap. That should stop and that's being said from a reasonable standpoint. Are you the owner of the forum to be so overwhelming and trying to take control of the discussions? You should be the least person to do that because you have proven your utter incompetence, arrogantly imposing it on the OU community. What nerve!
But filling 10 pages complaining about the thread title is 'on topic.' I get it now, you're a comedian.
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Indeed. Very well summarised Conrad. I entirely concur with your post. I'm copying it lest the reference be buried.
Regards,
Rosemary
Why the Stubblefield Magnet Motor devised by Lasersaber is very interesting and an important development:
I am referring to Lasersaber's video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMoaDXyFZU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuMoaDXyFZU) which shows a Baby Stubblefield Coil driving a Magnet Motor by help of two reed switches.
It is important to understand that the two reed switches close one after the other and never at the same time. One reed switch causes the Stubblefield coil to attract the magnet (the magnet just nearing the core of the coil) and the other reed switch causes the Stubblefield coil to push the magnet away (once the magnet has just passed the core of the Stubblefield coil).
Look at the attached circuit diagram and you will see that the reed switches switch "open circuits". And this is exactly the interesting thing.
There is some galvanic reaction happening, but the open circuits and the magnetic reaction are the new discovery.
Is this Over Unity? Much to early to tell!
Lasersaber demonstrates that a Stubblefield Coil can really do something, namely turn a magnet motor. This is an important first step and guides us to further studies and tests.
Lasersaber shows in his video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo how a secondary can be used to harvest electricity (blinking LED) from the automatically switched coil, and such pointing to further developments.
A further direction to go would be an attempt to replace the reed switches by transistors because the switching of the "open circuits" could then happen much faster and a longer time than with the rather slow and not very long lasting reed switches. The electricity for the transistors (and the timing) could come from pickup coils placed near the magnet motor (as long as the pickup coils do not stop the motor).
An other approach could be to dispense with the magnet motor and to try other switching means like two coils switching each other (would need transistor switching, but I have no idea how that could be done). One could even use a battery to drive the switching and one would see how much electricity can then be generated by secondaries. May be we will have OU in this way (little energy for switching and lots of energy from secondaries).
Greetings, Conrad
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So, if the switching is important then it isn't the coil that should hold our attention. Whoever came with the idea that the Stubblefield coil is anything at all? That is called a galvanic cell and is so well known that substituting it by someone's maniacal desire to see his name attached to it is nothing but a joke.
Now, back to the switching. It cannot be that important and novel because similar constructions are also well known let alone that Steorn have already proved that similar switching indeed leads to OU. What's different here? Nothing even in this respect.
It's high time for the OU community to start distinguishing promptly the maniacs and incompetents trying to shove down our throats trivialities or their incompetence from the really interesting and important stuff. Who needs enemies such as the zealous activists otherwise? They can just sit on the sidelines and laugh at the whole charade.
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@Rosemary Ainslie
I will try to get better step by step build instructions soon. I would start by trying to get the strongest electromagnet effects you can off of the coil. Do not even worry about voltage it's not important.
@conradelektro
That is a great summery. There's one more unique thing about this coil though that you forgot to mention. It's the effect that happens when you connect just the two iron wires together. Watch my video called "Stubblefield Electromagnet Effects?": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0
You can see that you can create an electro magnet just by connecting iron to iron. I have actually made motors that ran with a reed switch connected to the two iron wires. On a regular battery this would be like connecting the two ends of your reed switch to the negative terminal and running a motor off it!
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And now we're getting warm. It's Steorn. They have had millions invested in that technology - none of it audited. Who's that benefactor? Panacea invested - and sundry members at EF.com have invested. Has Omnibus invested? I suspect so.
The danger now is that there are those players who are protecting licensed technology in favour of unlicensed. Just a word of warning guys. I've long suspected this agenda. It's seemingly now coming to light. I'd be much happier to hear that there was active advancement of unlicensed technologies. The comfort is this. It will be IMPOSSIBLE to patent OU technologies - provided only that they remain open source and replicable.
I think we all need to follow lasersaber's advice here and BUILD and quickly.
Regards,
Rosemary
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@Rosemary Ainslie
I will try to get better step by step build instructions soon. I would start by trying to get the strongest electromagnet effects you can off of the coil. Do not even worry about voltage it's not important.
Thanks very much lasersaber. I get it.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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If you have read or are familiar with the Nathan Stubblefield Earth Battery Self Induction Coils topic located here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.0 (http://index.php?topic=3500.0)
you can see all of the research done on the patents and the devices. This took a long time to compile this information. Did you know that Stubblefield is recognized here in Kentucky, at Murry University, as the Father of Radio? His voice transmissions preceded both Tesla and Marconi by several years. He sent the transmission through the earth and his transmitter was powered by the Stubblefield cells. He also installed the telephone system in Murry, KY and powered the entire system from his earth batteries. He also lit his farm and heated his home using nothing but his earth batteries/Stubblefield coils.
So, we know there is something to all of this. There was NO grid power in his area of the state at that time and therefore no radio/tv transmitters either and yet he said you can get all of the amps you need from the earth for free, and he did.
This is why I do not see the need for the Faraday cage experiments as I am satisfied that is not where the energy is coming from.
With a little reading on Stubblefield, you will see why this is all so very cool to finally be replicated by lasersaber. It worked back in the late 1800's and it works today.
Bill
Dear Bill,
I cannot tell you how much I admire your response here on ALL levels and in every way. I certainly did not know that Nathan Stubblefield was that much of a pioneer. Another HUGE chapter of learning. I shall do my best to attend to it.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
;D
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May I suggest that we ignore Omnibus and his attempts to discredit this fascinating phenomenon. Whether he is a troll, attention whorre or even an owner is really besides the point. He is trying his very best to derail this worthy topic and we are playing right along.
Don't reply to his inane posts. Don't feed his pathetic need for attention. Don't acknowledge his idiocy as worthy of a response. Don't get sucked down into his negativity and don't allow him to hijack this thread.
Let's stick to the NS coil phenomenon and see if we can figure this energy source out. It may be just a galvanic battery working off the moisture in the air, but that is still to be determined.
Nevertheless, any device that can produce electricity for a long period of time without physically deteriorating or having to be replenished is certainly worthy of study and replication.
Cheers,
Ted
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Hi Ted. Your advice is good.
I was going to try only iron or only copper for the windings - but unnecessary. For anyone who may have missed the link I'll add it along with this. Frankly this little experiment speaks volumes - because the copper is insulated. It means that there is absolutely NO MOISTURE required to enable the motor. Not good news for some of our members here though. ::)
I'm not sure that we'll be able to use solid state switches or transistors but shall certainly try it. What I'd really like to see is some bigger energies and bigger loads. I think I may need to dig deep into those rather empty pockets of mine.
Anyway - roll on tomorrow. I'll definitely be making my early purchases. Thanks again to a really profoundly insightful experimentalist. We need clones.
Regards,
Rosemary
sorry I forgot to add the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0
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May I suggest that we ignore Omnibus and his attempts to discredit this fascinating phenomenon. Whether he is a troll, attention whorre or even an owner is really besides the point. He is trying his very best to derail this worthy topic and we are playing right along.
Don't reply to his inane posts. Don't feed his pathetic need for attention. Don't acknowledge his idiocy as worthy of a response. Don't get sucked down into his negativity and don't allow him to hijack this thread.
Let's stick to the NS coil phenomenon and see if we can figure this energy source out. It may be just a galvanic battery working off the moisture in the air, but that is still to be determined.
Nevertheless, any device that can produce electricity for a long period of time without physically deteriorating or having to be replenished is certainly worthy of study and replication.
Cheers,
Ted
Yours is really idiocy, indeed, to suggest that this is a fascinating phenomenon in the same berth while acknowledging it's a galvanic battery. Galvanic cells are well known and there's nothing fascinating about them. Who needs enemies if one has advocates such as you. Pathetic.
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If you have read or are familiar with the Nathan Stubblefield Earth Battery Self Induction Coils topic located here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.0 (http://index.php?topic=3500.0)
you can see all of the research done on the patents and the devices. This took a long time to compile this information. Did you know that Stubblefield is recognized here in Kentucky, at Murry University, as the Father of Radio? His voice transmissions preceded both Tesla and Marconi by several years. He sent the transmission through the earth and his transmitter was powered by the Stubblefield cells. He also installed the telephone system in Murry, KY and powered the entire system from his earth batteries. He also lit his farm and heated his home using nothing but his earth batteries/Stubblefield coils.
So, we know there is something to all of this. There was NO grid power in his area of the state at that time and therefore no radio/tv transmitters either and yet he said you can get all of the amps you need from the earth for free, and he did.
This is why I do not see the need for the Faraday cage experiments as I am satisfied that is not where the energy is coming from.
With a little reading on Stubblefield, you will see why this is all so very cool to finally be replicated by lasersaber. It worked back in the late 1800's and it works today.
Bill
This is all well and good to admire a local hero, however, there's absolutely nothing in this so called Stubblefield coil. We're talking about the coil, right, not the radio or anything else? I took a glance at the thread you mention and I assure you, it's sheer waste of time. Absolutely nothing of substance in there. You know, many times there are these made up folk heroes who fill in some gap in the emotional needs of a certain area. I don't blame the people in awe of the hero, I blame the clowns such as this certain Stubblefield who has fooled successfully so many. That's a shame. These phony heroes foist themselves on society and substitute for the real heroes who are are doing the OU, standing in their way and thus hindering the real progress. Like I said, let's get to the bottom of this with real concrete data so that you can make it known to the people of Kentucky what fools someone was trying to make out of them.
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Reposted from 4 pages ago. It must have gotten buried in all the "name calling" crap over the past 2 days. >:(
Whenever I search for iron/metal rods they all have code numbers.
What is soft iron: "1018 Cold Rolled Steel Round Bar"?
Or something else.
I'm not looking for a core thats "good enough".
I want to buy what works "best" for the core and if it's too expensive what's "second best". ;D
What size (AWG) copper cotton insulated wire and iron wire to buy and where to buy if possible?
Thank you,
DonL
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Let's stick to the NS coil phenomenon and see if we can figure this energy source out. It may be just a galvanic battery working off the moisture in the air, but that is still to be determined.
Nevertheless, any device that can produce electricity for a long period of time without physically deteriorating or having to be replenished is certainly worthy of study and replication.
Cheers,
Ted
Hi again Ted
I agree entirely with this. Surely to use water instead of electrolytes has got to be an improvement. Just so much cheaper, cleaner and more accessible. Then - if one does not even need that water - then it opens whole chapters of interest in our researches here. I see NOTHING that is not improved by progressing this. Cheaper lighter cleaner batteries is just the start.
Regards,
Rosemary
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I have watched all videos now and I also think that the moisture persists for a long time within the different layers of the coil. It remembers when I put once copper and iron into box with wet sand and could measure some voltage for some months time. And exactly this seems to happen in here, which is nothing unusal I'm afraid. The solution with salt water will most likely only dry out on the outside, but not on the inside completely. As powerthecat already mentioned, it is difficult enough to remove moisture from the inside of a transformer. With this kind of NS coil it's even more diffcult.
Also I agree with omnibus that you need to enclose the device in a faraday cage. Make sure you are not in the near of an electrical distribution board. I experienced myself that I could pickup a decent amount of voltage and current by just having a long cable next to some board, as well as in a distance of 1-2m. Since you have quite along cable (coil) this device will act as an antenna and pickup electromagnetic waves very easily! This is most likely the reason why it even works in a dry state.
Of course a faraday cage will also dismiss natural electromagnetic waves, but you'd need to go into the desert to prove the influences. I agree though that this device is interesting, but all in all it seems to be a galvanic cell only (wet state), or anj EMF pickup antenna (dry state). :(
If it is possible to gain enough power for many month or even a year just by using this device and putting it into a box so that it is shielded from wind, I could imagine further use though. For now the "motor" however seems to be quite weak. Even a small flat battery cell has more power than this big device as can be seen in one of "lidmotors" replications. Therefore it needs lots of coils :-\
Hi gauschor
It is more than likely that we will see a faraday cage test done in the future,this thread is looking like it's going to run into hundreds of pages.
As to the question of moisture and decay in the coil, I think this all depends on how long it will last, if it turns out to be a very long time,hopefully a year or two, then the amount of decay is negligible
@all
How many coils are going to be needed to produce 1 W of power, and what is the cost of materials to make these coils going to be in relation to the amount of power produced over time.
This is a question I hope will be answered as the thread progresses (if it can)
I really don't care if someone posted a device on this forum that ran on lemons, oranges,
or toilet paper, as long as it made power for a long time at very little cost,I would find it interesting and worthy of further investigation.
I hope that when Stefan gets back he will tidy up this thread.
cat
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@dllabarre
I answer those questions in my how to make a NS coil Videos. The first video answers the specific questions you asked. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuw12Qr8wk
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I really don't care if someone posted a device on this forum that ran on lemons, oranges,
or toilet paper, as long as it made power for a long time at very little cost,I would find it interesting and worthy of further investigation.
So, why should we care about your incompetent ramblings, as seen from what you wrote above? This thread really needs tidying, if there's a need for such a thread at all. The OU community needs a thread such as this as much as it needs a thread about Mylow or something else incompetent.
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Lasersaber - How did you confirm the entire coil is dry? Thanks
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@dllabarre
I answer those questions in my how to make a NS coil Videos. The first video answers the specific questions you asked. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuw12Qr8wk
Awesome! Thank you.
DonL
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@dllabarre
I answer those questions in my how to make a NS coil Videos. The first video answers the specific questions you asked. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsuw12Qr8wk
Part 1 of this video (the link given above) may be skipped. The minute you said in the second video that you're making the wires wet I stopped watching. I should've stopped even earlier because the cotton has already gotten wet from you handling it. Try plastic insulated wire and let's see what voltage you'll measure. How can people deceive themselves so much? I guess some just want to skip the stage of systematic education and want it the easy way -- to get fantastic results without spending the time to educate themselves. Well, here's the result. You get two in one -- neither is there a fantastic result nor you spare yourself the embarrassment of demonstrating your ignorance about basic science in front of so many people. This may seem more innocent to some compared to the outright Milow fraud but it isn't less embarrassing. The ironic thing is that a lot of work is still put in but to the wrong end.
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@happyfunball
Here is what I said earlier in the thread.
I did originally wet it in salt water, but since then I have not added any water at all. It's been 75 days now running dry, though I am sure that air humidity is maintaining a low level of moisture in the coil.
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@happyfunball
Here is what I said earlier in the thread.
Like I said, try plastic-insulated wire and let's see what happens, what voltage are you gonna measure then.
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@happyfunball
Here is what I said earlier in the thread.
Thanks, I did read that. I'm just wondering how you've determined that it is dry, as multiple windings of cotton covered wire would seem to have the ability to trap the moisture. Especially when encased by a secondary of enamel coated secondary coil.
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Thanks, I did read that. I'm just wondering how you've determined that it is dry, as multiple windings of cotton covered wire would seem to have the ability to trap the moisture. Especially when encased by a secondary of enamel coated secondary coil.
Hi Happy,
Maybe I can help you out here. The lasersaber variation of the NS coil has no secondary winding. The entire build is with iron and copper.
But I think Laser has gone to some trouble now to assure us all that there's probably some moisture in the coil notwithstanding only one dip in a saline solution some 70 or so days ago. The surface is hard dried - and the iron is rusted. But the rusting seems to have 'peaked' or halted - presumably therefore confined to the surface of the wire.
Hope that helps and hopefully I've got it right. Else please speak up.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
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How can an incompetent person hope to have helped? That's impossible. Please try plastic-covered wire (every RadioShack carries such) instead of cotton-covered and then report back if you measured any voltage. That's the only guarrantee the two metals are insulated.
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Hi Happy,
Maybe I can help you out here. The lasersaber variation of the NS coil has no secondary winding. The entire build is with iron and copper.
But I think Laser has gone to some trouble now to assure us all that there's probably some moisture in the coil notwithstanding only one dip in a saline solution some 70 or so days ago. The surface is hard dried - and the iron is rusted. But the rusting seems to have 'peaked' or halted - presumably therefore confined to the surface of the wire.
Hope that helps and hopefully I've got it right. Else please speak up.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
I was watching the first coil videos, forgot this is different. I'm assuming this one was produced with the same way, with each turn wetted down, plus one additional submerging after it was completed to create a layer of rust? If so, I don't see any way to have determined that trapped internal moisture isn't powering it. The length of time it has run, though, is still impressive. Perhaps side drilling on the end caps could be used to determine moisture content.
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I was watching the first coil videos, forgot this is different. I'm assuming this one was produced with the same way, with each turn wetted down, plus one additional submerging after it was completed to create a layer of rust? If so, I don't see any way to have determined that trapped internal moisture isn't powering it. The length of time it has run, though, is still impressive. Perhaps side drilling on the end caps could be used to determine moisture content.
Hi again - I'm not sure that it's relevant to our follow up tests. My objective is to do without the moisture entirely but realise that I'll probably manage this at the cost of a slower rotor turn. But if you look at some of the 'boosters' on those video clips - I'll try and find the link - then you'll see that there is no required dampening of the material as he's using a copper coil. But the question is still out there happyfunball. We none of us know and I think the idea is to let the existing demo just keep plodding on and test around it with follow up builds. It would be an awful shame to alter the existing one.
Kindest as ever,
Rosie
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Hi Happy,
Maybe I can help you out here. The lasersaber variation of the NS coil has no secondary winding. The entire build is with iron and copper.
But I think Laser has gone to some trouble now to assure us all that there's probably some moisture in the coil notwithstanding only one dip in a saline solution some 70 or so days ago. The surface is hard dried - and the iron is rusted. But the rusting seems to have 'peaked' or halted - presumably therefore confined to the surface of the wire.
Hope that helps and hopefully I've got it right. Else please speak up.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
Dear Rosemary,
I assume that the iron rusting proceeds incrementally with the
availability of H2O from humidity, like when anhydrous alcohol
dilutes itself.
I'm much more interested in physical experiments, which is one
nice thing about science; After the personal attacks subside one
can go back to the lab and make actual physical progress towards
the creation of new knowledge.
:S:MarkSCoffman
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How can an incompetent person hope to have helped? That's impossible. Please try plastic-covered wire (every RadioShack carries such) instead of cotton-covered and then report back if you measured any voltage. That's the only guarrantee the two metals are insulated.
Can YOU try?
If people spent less time talking and more time experimenting and thinking, free energy would have been developed before Christ. Get out there and prove your manhood in the free energy community by actually doing an experiment - it is, after all, part and parcel of the scientific method.
Think of it as a measure of your competence - You, Omnibus the wise, Omnibus the slayer of false OU claims, gets to demonstrate in the only way possible that he was right all along. I, for one, would respect you a lot more if you backed up your scepticism (and there is NOTHING wrong with scepticism) with experimental evidence on youtube.
Demanding that others do experiments to back up ones own theories demonstrates laziness and arrogance. Remember the old adage ''if you want something done properly, do it yourself''. - so come on - show us the NS coil is ''nothing special''
More than 70 days is a great result for any battery, OU or no OU. Well done lasersaber....keep going!
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Dear Rosemary,
I assume that the iron rusting proceeds incrementally with the
availability of H2O from humidity, like when anhydrous alcohol
dilutes itself.
I'm much more interested in physical experiments, which is one
nice thing about science; After the personal attacks subside one
can go back to the lab and make actual physical progress towards
the creation of new knowledge.
:S:MarkSCoffman
Hi Mark - what a nice post. I agree entirely. I'm still a clutz with builds but - this time round I've got access to experts. So privileged.
And how nice to see everyone rally here. I agree. This is a really interesting effect.
I LOVE this forum and ALMOST all of it's members. ;D So much talent. It's blow away stuff.
Kindest and best,
Rosemary
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Curious - have you or anyone else done the math to determine the exact amount of energy being produced (and has been produced)? I'm not exactly a physics pro and I'm not sure where I would start. :)
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Hi Lasersaber,
Great work and thank you for taking the time to make videos of your progress. 30+ days running is just amazing. I wonder what would happen if you take the cloth covered copper and iron wire and wound it as a Rodin or Starship coil? NS+Rodin Coil = ? Stronger magnets could give it some more kick. So much to try.
@It's Just A Battery crowd,
If it is just a battery what would you rather have. A motor that runs off an AA battery for 3 hours or a NS coil that could run for 30+ days? I think I'll choose the latter.
A 12v, 110Amp hour marine battery will run a 100watt dc motor for only 5.5hours. Even if you ran a 1watt dc motor with the 12v battery would only be able to run it 550 hours which is about 23 days, that doesn't take into account losses through heating. In those 30 days you could wind enough backup NS coils to last you the rest of the year at a price lower than the cost of the battery.
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@It's Just A Battery crowd,
If it is just a battery what would you rather have. A motor that runs off an AA battery for 3 hours or a NS coil that could run for 30+ days? I think I'll choose the latter.
Lets not forget the old ''zamboni pile'' in the oxford electric bell......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell
set up in 1840, still going strong :)
wonderful what you can do with a good battery....i really hope this one has some self susaining properties when buried.
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Hi flathunter
Great link, Wow it has been running 170 years, now lasersaber has a target ;D
Quote from Wikipedia
Probably the most interesting part of the bell is the pair of dry piles. Nobody is certain what they are composed of, but it is known that they have been coated with molten sulphur to prevent effects from atmospheric moisture and it is thought that they may be Zamboni piles.
End quote
cat
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LaserSaber
What size carbon rod did you use for the air battery?
Was it solid carbon or carbon fiber?
What size magnesium ribbon also?
Thanks
DonL
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@Lasersaber
Some ideas , i wonder if tried them ?
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Zamboni is another electrostatic device. You can get high voltage from it, but the currents are nano amps.
If there is enough electrical charge the oxidation of the iron can be slowed down or stopped.
Awhile back it was stated the coil was in essence a pump that drew in the telluric currents and that makes sense. Once the coil was charged up by the telluric currents and then activated it produced a steady flow by electrostatic induction. The amount of current seems dependent on the amount of telluric currents that its immersed in. Stubblefield was always adamant about finding a hot spot. Someone asked if the coil should be vertical or horizontal in the ground. With a hot spot it may not have mattered.
Current can flow in 2 directions at one time. In solid metals,natural state, protons dont move but electrons do. In the ground and other materiel's protons do move but in the opposite direction. Possible that both the protons and electrons are moving in the cotton dielectric. The opposite flow is known as cold electricity according to some and I assume this is the case with this. Speculation on my part but if its so,what orientation should the coil poles be? My guess would be the north to north and south to south. The north pole of a magnet is counter clockwise which may bring protons back in,and the south pole is clockwise bringing in electrons.
Like my wife tells me "There you go thinking again!"
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Guys, just a thought and a quick mention. I wonder if there is a requirement for 'spacing' between all those wires. It may be that the cotton is providing this space resulting in some kind of capacitance to enhance the effect. I only mention this because we have invariably used windings with spacing in our own resistors and it definitely encourages the required resonance. Nothing accurately measured as yet - regarding optimised spacings. Just a general observation.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Rose:
Interesting thought. I could not afford the cotton covered wire at the time of my own experiments but I found that, using cotton cord about the same diameter as the wires worked well. I just wound that in between the iron and copper and it did a good job of insulation. When winding a second layer, I just cut some cotton from a T-shirt in strips and insulated the first layer against the second.
I think what you are suggesting may be worth looking into. The wires should be close, but not so close as to touch. Hmmm. We need to think about this.
Bill
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Rose:
Interesting thought. I could not afford the cotton covered wire at the time of my own experiments but I found that, using cotton cord about the same diameter as the wires worked well. I just wound that in between the iron and copper and it did a good job of insulation. When winding a second layer, I just cut some cotton from a T-shirt in strips and insulated the first layer against the second.
I think what you are suggesting may be worth looking into. The wires should be close, but not so close as to touch. Hmmm. We need to think about this.
Bill
Hi Pirate. ;D
That's actually a really good idea. I'm going to try it as it will be less expensive than cotton coated and I'm not sure how easy it's to get in this 3rd Wold Outback of ours. ::) Actually I mustn't say that. I'm awfully proud of our country at the moment.
Anyway - day has dawned and I'm off to CAMPUS. How nice is that. ;D
Kindest regards Bill and take good care of yourself
Rosie
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Thanks Rose. Well, it is not as good an idea as what Lasersaber has done using what NS had available to him at the time. I had no shorts and did get a decent output so, I know this method works but, I highly recommend Laser's method as it is as close to what NS did that we can do today n my opinion.
If you do this, just make sure it is 100% cotton cord and not some percent plastic, vinyl or polyester.
Bill
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Here's what I'm going to try...
1) Wind iron wire with a spacer thats a little larger than the copper wire (sting or use insulated copper wire for spacing).
2) Remove (unwind) whatever you used as the spacer.
3) Put a layer of cotton over the iron wire.
4) Wind the bare copper wire over this cotton layer between the iron wires where the spacer left a groove.
5) Then wrap a cotton layer over the bare copper and start the second row of iron wire.
I don't know how well this will work yet. It's just a thought I had last night.
DonL
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Don:
That should work but, the cotton cord may be easier. The best is the cotton covered wire but, kind of pricey in my world over here. Let us know how that works out for you, it sounds interesting.
Bill
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It may be that the cotton is providing this space resulting in some kind of capacitance to enhance the effect.
You have some capacitance already in the parallel coil wires. The damp cotton dielectric should be an added capacitance or place to build up charge. Think of an old time rolled paper capacitor. The patent states to have a continuous interposed layer of cotton. I haven't seen anyone do a full interpose yet or it appears to me they haven't. This would increase the area of charge and make the coil larger in volume with every wind. I think I may understand Stubblefields comment on the cotton covered iron wire now. If you use cotton covered iron wire without the interposed cotton layer it still works. But the area of charge is not as great. Using cotton on both wires with the interposed cotton would give more area of charge.
Comments needed on this line of thought.
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Hi IotaYodi
I was wondering about the suggestion made by Dllabarre,and then I saw your post about more cotton
being better
The above suggestion by Dllabarre gets around the expensive cotton coated wire, and you end up with more layers of cotton, which could be a good thing.
Is it a good idea ? let's hope so.
cat PS I remember reading about using welding rods in Bedinis to make a central core. Any thoughts on this
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You have some capacitance already in the parallel coil wires. The damp cotton dielectric should be an added capacitance or place to build up charge. Think of an old time rolled paper capacitor. The patent states to have a continuous interposed layer of cotton. I haven't seen anyone do a full interpose yet or it appears to me they haven't. This would increase the area of charge and make the coil larger in volume with every wind. I think I may understand Stubblefields comment on the cotton covered iron wire now. If you use cotton covered iron wire without the interposed cotton layer it still works. But the area of charge is not as great. Using cotton on both wires with the interposed cotton would give more area of charge.
Comments needed on this line of thought.
Hello IotaYodi, Guys,
What's really at issue is whether we're dealing with a battery here in any conventional use of the word. Traditionally a battery requires an electrolytic solution of sorts or a solvent that is capable of conducting a charge - I think the definition goes? Something like that? A galvanic action - again as I understand it - requires an electrolytic solution to conduct between two metals. Bottom line is that there is no way this is traditionally enabled without the use of a 'salt bridge' or some sort of acid or alkaline solvent or base? I'm struggling here and apologies to purists if the terms are wrong. I actually know some chemists who post at EF.com and I intend asking them.
Now - as I see it - and sorry it's so ponderous. The traditional Nathan Stubblefield battery only requires water. But there is a complex build of primary windings and secondaries that somehow combine just about all the standard properties of an inductor/resistor/core/primaries? secondaries? - the whole usual electrical circuit schebang - wrapped up in one construct. Literally. And we also know now that it works. And we know that IF it's a battery in any traditional sense - then it certainly does not use a solvent. It recommends the use of water. Therefore IF it's a battery it contradicts our standard definition of the term.
Then. The variation that Laser has given us - has no secondary - but it's been dosed in a saline solution that may very well have permeated through the whole structure. That may, indeed - represent some sort of solvent solution. In which case it may also be a battery of sorts. But then we also need to know if it's dry or wet or what? No doubt time will tell.
But Laser also shows us that it's enough to dampen the cotton to increase the conductivity on the circuit. And that dampening is done with tap water. Not necessarily the purest type of water but I don't think anyone can argue that it's a solvent. And again. It works. But even more interesting is this. The dampening only ENHANCES the effect. It's there without the water. And that's the point where the definition of 'battery' in any conventional sense - is simply no longer correct. It's now properly - a generator. And it's generating it's energies by pure inductive laws in a way that is certainly NOT traditionally allowed.
And I'm not sure that we can argue the flow of electrons - as traditionally understood to be part of current flow - at all. There must first be an essential 'valence' condition in the atoms to enable an electron flow. I personally don't buy into the flow of electrons in any current. But classicists and our members here that subscribe to this? Surely you must concede that this would first require an imbalanced valance condition. There is none in H2O. None at all. Maybe here and there the odd 2H2O or whatever. But that's it. And from what I understood in the brief learning that I managed at EF.com - when the water molecule separates it invariably results in some form of hydrogen or 'gas' release - that is not actually recoverable. IF - and again it's a big IF - we're arguing any kind of electrolytic process then what we would need to argue is that water molecule is first disassembling - if that's the term - and the reassembling back into a water molecule without any evident loss to that structure. Which would be extraordinary. Frankly I seriously think we need some expert guidance as to what could be going on here. And I intend asking. Or if there are any chemists amongs our members - perhaps they can step up to the plate?
I also know a brilliant experimentalist in Jetijs - and I will certainly ask him to help us out here. It's easily within his competence to put up this test and variants of this, as required, and I suspect he'll manage this more quickly and more efficiently than anything I, personally can manage. I really think this experiment is that significant that it really needs our best efforts and our best talents.
Regards,
Rosemary
edited
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I don't see in the patent "Electrical Battery 600,457" where Nathan (Mr. Stubblefield) said to use salt in the water. Is there another patent that says to use salt? I just see water.
We don't know what's in LaserSaber's water. It cold be from a well with hard metals in it.
LaserSaber also used galvanized coated wire not bare iron wire.
There are many subtle differences, where any one or all are causing the effect LaserSaber is getting.
It's difficult to replicate some of these older devices because the raw materials either aren't available of cost too much.
This needs many varied replications to determine what is causing this effect.
I plan to start with homemade distilled water but I won't be using cotton insulated copper wire because of the cost. So I'll have a difference as well.
LaserSaber - DON"T disassemble that coil until someone can replicated it!!! ;)
DonL
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Hello Everyone,
This coil has been replicated by myself and quite a few others. A few years ago, I built a few micro Stubblefield coils. Many experiments have been performed and they both worked well. Lasersaber's mini coil is about twice the size of the coils that I made. Each one produced about 1 volt and anywhere from 4 to 50 milliamps depending on the configuration. As Stubblefield showed in the patent, the electricity generated is purely galvanic/voltaic. And the secondary makes use of the magnetic field generated. Nothing new there.
From what I understand by the grace of God he didn't wet the coils at all. He just had to show something the patent examiners could understand. The diligent seeker of truth will find out what was the main driving force behind all the power he generated.
Bottom line is, anyone building this type of coil is missing a key component which is not revealed in the patent and so, while it is a wonderful piece to demonstrate certain principles, I believe it will never be a practical power producer.
Blessings,
Littlechristgod
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What's really at issue is whether we're dealing with a battery here in any conventional use of the word.
Nope. Way too much going on here.
Water is a weak electrolyte by itself. It would cause a galvanic action on both iron and copper. You could waterproof the outside of the coil with mica or other insulator. Once in the ground it would still gather humidity within the casing. If wooden caps were used it would gather even more humidity on the coil. The cotton may hold water or humidity for galvanic action,but in my mind its also the holding place of the charged particles just like a cap.
Experiment:Make sure the coil is already damp. Take a pulse generator, software or otherwise,and take the positive to one copper terminal. Take the negative to an external ground and not to the coil leaving the iron wires open. Disconnect any reed switches and rotors. Pulse it with low voltage overnight. Check it the next day and compare Voltage and ma's. Then try it with the Neg or iron wire on the coil. Using software you can hook a stereo system to the computers soundcard out. If the stereo has separate outputs check the polarity. One will be neg and one positive. You would then feed the pulse from the stereo. If it has as an equalizer you should be able to get different voltages. The output of a stereo will be higher than a soundcard. Any questions on this just ask. Plenty of folks here who can help with this.
The goal here is to see if the copper wire when dc pulsed is inducing a radiant energy charge into the cotton.
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I don't see in the patent "Electrical Battery 600,457" where Nathan (Mr. Stubblefield) said to use salt in the water. Is there another patent that says to use salt? I just see water.
Hi DonL - I spent a frustrating night. I couldn't access our internet - anyway it seems we're back up. Laser used a salt solution to rust off the galvanized iron. I'm always intrigued with the variations that experimentalists introduce to a construct. It's usually based on some kind of insight. I"m not sure what Laser was seeing here. I'd love him to explain this.
We don't know what's in LaserSaber's water. It cold be from a well with hard metals in it.
I think he's told us that - very specifically - that he only uses tap water and one assumes - with that much emphasis - that it's standard mains supply. But I'm open to correction.
LaserSaber also used galvanized coated wire not bare iron wire.
Does this vary from the Nathan Stubblefield construct?
This needs many varied replications to determine what is causing this effect.
I SO agree with you here.
LaserSaber - DON"T disassemble that coil until someone can replicated it!!! ;)
I must say I agree entirely with this.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Hello Everyone,
This coil has been replicated by myself and quite a few others. A few years ago, I built a few micro Stubblefield coils. Many experiments have been performed and they both worked well. Lasersaber's mini coil is about twice the size of the coils that I made. Each one produced about 1 volt and anywhere from 4 to 50 milliamps depending on the configuration. As Stubblefield showed in the patent, the electricity generated is purely galvanic/voltaic. And the secondary makes use of the magnetic field generated. Nothing new there.
Hi Rock, I wonder if you could explain how it is that a galvanic/voltaic cell (as you put) can work? I would have thought that it would need some kind of solvent or base? Is this wrong? Sorry if the question is awfully elementary.
From what I understand by the grace of God he didn't wet the coils at all.
There is it again. Did it work without water? In which case how is it a battery?
He just had to show something the patent examiners could understand. The diligent seeker of truth will find out what was the main driving force behind all the power he generated.
I think that Laser has shown us, already, that the patent requires a linking of the wiring that is simply wrong.
Bottom line is, anyone building this type of coil is missing a key component which is not revealed in the patent and so, while it is a wonderful piece to demonstrate certain principles, I believe it will never be a practical power producer.
I question the value of this kind of advice - ever. And the fact is that on a small scale Laser has already shown us a working device. Certainly enough to light LED's.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Nope. Way too much going on here.
Water is a weak electrolyte by itself. It would cause a galvanic action on both iron and copper. You could waterproof the outside of the coil with mica or other insulator. Once in the ground it would still gather humidity within the casing. If wooden caps were used it would gather even more humidity on the coil. The cotton may hold water or humidity for galvanic action,but in my mind its also the holding place of the charged particles just like a cap.
Experiment:Make sure the coil is already damp. Take a pulse generator, software or otherwise,and take the positive to one copper terminal. Take the negative to an external ground and not to the coil leaving the iron wires open. Disconnect any reed switches and rotors. Pulse it with low voltage overnight. Check it the next day and compare Voltage and ma's. Then try it with the Neg or iron wire on the coil. Using software you can hook a stereo system to the computers soundcard out. If the stereo has separate outputs check the polarity. One will be neg and one positive. You would then feed the pulse from the stereo. If it has as an equalizer you should be able to get different voltages. The output of a stereo will be higher than a soundcard. Any questions on this just ask. Plenty of folks here who can help with this.
The goal here is to see if the copper wire when dc pulsed is inducing a radiant energy charge into the cotton.
Hi IotaYodi
You lost me on that test. But I get it that you're trying to establish wether the cotton is holding the charge? I'm glad to learn that water is a weak electrolyte. I still want to learn more about this. Now that I'm up I'll see if I can get hold of various people and hopefully get more input here.
Many thanks Iota.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Hi DonL - I spent a frustrating night. I couldn't access our internet - anyway it seems we're back up.
Laser used a salt solution to rust off the galvanized iron. I'm always intrigued with the variations that experimentalists introduce to a construct.
Does this vary from the Nathan Stubblefield construct?
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
The patent says bare iron wire.
I don't understand what this means: "Laser used a salt solution to rust off the galvanized iron." Did he do this to the wire to make it bare iron wire?
Without hearing from LaserSaber we're left making assumptions. :(
Experiments will tell us the answers...
DonL
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I used bare iron wire but, it is kind of hard to find. Most of the fence type wire in these gauges is galvanized which adds zinc into the mix. It might actually be better...who knows?
My earliest experiments involved using a zinc coated spike for my cores.
I am sure if we review Laser's vids, he probably mentions exactly what he used...I just do not recall at this time.
Bill
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First let me say I have not read the entire thread.
Second, I applaud Lasersaber's work and excellent video documentation.
It seems clear to most here that the term " Self-Runner" in the title refers to there being no additional power-source other than the system as it is shown in the videos. It's not OU, LS has never said that. But it may be a critical step in that direction as we will see over time.
I would like to close with a quote:
"I will speak ill of no man...and speak all the good I know of everybody." --Benjamin Franklin
This of course takes a very high degree of maturity, one that I personally have not attained; but it seems a worthy goal.
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I am sure if we review Laser's vids, he probably mentions exactly what he used...I just do not recall at this time.
Bill
From the video:
Soft Iron Core Rod from Sargent-Welch 13mm x 150mm
Plastic spool ends - not wood
20 awg Galvanized steel wire (not iron wire) from Lowes Harware store
.9mm (19 awg) cotton covered copper wire from http:\\wire.co.uk (http://http:\\wire.co.uk)
He covered the soft iron core rod with electrical tape not cotton
DonL
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A dielectric is not a conductor but is a holding place for electrostatic fields. Just like a capacitor. If the current is low enough and the electrostatic flux is not stopped, then the electrostatic field can store charge in the cotton. If the cotton field,I like that!, has too much water whos dielectric is 80.4 it stops the charge. Before you put the coil in the ground take meter readings. Analog meters or galvanometer are best suited from my understanding from other experimenters. Leave the coil in the ground for a week,month whatever and leave the coil unconnected to a load which includes a meter. In other words keep the circuit open. I would think there would be a charge buildup in the cotton. Externally you should be able to check it faster with a pulse generator or maybe a cap. What I dont know for certain is if the circuit should be closed or open in order to pick up a charge. Both need to be tried. It would be nice to have the equipment to vary the voltage and current to create a baseline if indeed it would work. Maybe using a cap with some type of pulse circuit would work.
I don't understand what this means: "Laser used a salt solution to rust off the galvanized iron." Did he do this to the wire to make it bare iron wire?
Not likely. The Zinc wouldnt have much of an effect if any on the magnetic field of the iron. He was probably looking for a galvanic response and if there was an increase in voltage or amps. He accelerated the galvanic action with the salt which created the iron oxides on the surface. Internally the process should be slower as its not exposed to air. Zinc coatings can slow galvanic action. As stated previously if the current is sufficient it will stop or slow down the galvanic action. This type of process is used on boats.
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Thanks for the explanation Iota.
Laser, I hope we'll see more of that last construct with multiple miniature coils. How's it going with this?
I'm afraid to report I've done absolutely nothing yet. Time a bit constrained. But I'll try again at the weekend. I have written off to chemists to see if I can rally some interest. Fingers crossed.
Regards,
Rosemary
added BTW Nice to see you join the discussion JamesThomas. In my defense, what I lack in maturity I make up for in chronological age. But somehow I think I lose out on both sides of that argument. LOL
;D
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I bought some 20 awg Galvanized bare steel wire from Lowes like LaserSaber used.
I have a ferrite rod 7.5" L x 1/2" D.
I have 18 awg magnetic copper wire
First I wrapped the ferrite rod with cotton.
Second I bifilar wrapped one layer with 73 turns of 20 awg Gal. steel wire and 18 awg copper magnetic wire.
The steel wire is negative and the copper wire is positive.
Dry:
2.5mV connected to steel and copper
If I connect to both steel wires or both copper wires then I get zero volts as expected.
steel wire 1.3 ohm
copper wire .5 ohm
Forgot to measure inductance when dry. :(
Wet:
Inductance: steel 518.9uH, copper 493.4uH
Voltage:
.510V at first but dropped to .364V after 2 minutes
then it went back up to .375V 5 minutes later.
Wet again 20 mins later:
.382V
.457V 2 mins later
.462V 2 mins later
.415V 15 mins later
During this whole time my digital meter was connected, which was a drain on the Earth Battery I know and I didn't add water so it was drying out also.
Unconnected digital meter at .411V for 5 mins.
Reconnected digital meter and it read .523V then started dropping.
2 mins later it was down to a low of .462V and started rising.
2 mins later it was up to .368V all the while my digital meter was connected.
If I disconnect the meter for a couple seconds and reconnect it the reading jumps to .526 then falls. I did this 5 times with the same results.
After 10 mins I connected my meter and got a reading of .502V before it started dropping. So as it drys it appears the voltage gets lower.
Another test would be to wet the coil and wrap it in plastic so as not to be able to dry out very easily.
I'll recheck it tomorrow morning in 8 hrs.
So I need a circuit which connects then disconnects a small load (resistor) every 2 seconds to see how long this Earth battery can run.
Any ideas??
I need to get another analog meter also. >:(
DonL
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Don:
If you used mag wire for the copper, you need to strip the plastic coating off of it. Or burn it off. I used naked copper wire.
Interesting results.
Bill
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Don:
If you used mag wire for the copper, you need to strip the plastic coating off of it. Or burn it off. I used naked copper wire.
Interesting results.
Bill
Someone was complaining about using regular insulated copper wire to prove something about galvanic process taking place or not. I had the wire so I tried it. I hope this resolves that persons issues.
Mr. Stubblefield doesn't say in the patent that the copper wire needs to be insulated with cotton, just insulated. Or did I miss something that he said?
DonL
PS - 30 mins later and I get a reading of .505V when I first connect my digital meter.
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Hello DonL. Very well done for getting the tests started. I see you've only wrapped one layer? Is that right? And have you built the rotor yet? It would be interesting to see how this works. Or are you only looking at this as a battery?
Would love to see a picture of your device. Can you give us this? BTW I don't think Bill was referring to the Stubblefield construct when he recommended getting rid of coating. It was just a suggested variation.
Regards,
Rosemary
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@dllabarre,
PS - 30 mins later and I get a reading of .505V when I first connect my digital meter.
So, one of the wires was plastic-insulated and you got that? Hardly. Tell us what you really did before claiming that the issue is settled.
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@Pirate88179,
Interesting results.
On the contrary, this is a trivial result. Absolutely not interesting.
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Someone was complaining about using regular insulated copper wire to prove something about galvanic process taking place or not. I had the wire so I tried it. I hope this resolves that persons issues.
Mr. Stubblefield doesn't say in the patent that the copper wire needs to be insulated with cotton, just insulated. Or did I miss something that he said?
DonL
PS - 30 mins later and I get a reading of .505V when I first connect my digital meter.
Well, from our reading it turns out that either the iron or the copper can be insulated with cotton. Your results appear to disprove the completely galvanic idea. I am sorry, I did not realize that this was what you were trying to do.
Nice going. And, if you test for continuity I am sure you will see no connections. Very well done.
Bill
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Well, from our reading it turns out that either the iron or the copper can be insulated with cotton. Your results appear to disprove the completely galvanic idea. I am sorry, I did not realize that this was what you were trying to do.
Nice going. And, if you test for continuity I am sure you will see no connections. Very well done.
Bill
Isolation with cotton does not at all disprove the completely galvanic idea. Let him do it with plastic-insulated wire and see what happens.
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PS - 30 mins later and I get a reading of .505V when I first connect my digital meter.
8 hours later - just 6mV - down from .505V - practically dead from drying out.
Wet:
Inductance: steel 518.9uH, copper 493.4uH
Dry:
Inductance: steel 463.0uH, copper 451.3uH
A little difference as expected.
DonL
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Isolation with cotton does not at all disprove the completely galvanic idea. Let him do it with plastic-insulated wire and see what happens.
He did. He used mag wire for the copper which is plastic coated.
Bill
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BTW I don't think Bill was referring to the Stubblefield construct when he recommended getting rid of coating.
Regards,
Rosemary
The patent says to insulate the copper wire.
I only used the cotton to insulate the ferrite core rod.
Enamel insulation that I used with my magnetic wire is as good as plastic insulation. It is recommended to use enamel insulated wire on coils to allow for more turns being the insulation is thinner. I don't have to repeat this test with plastic insulated copper wire.
DonL
PS - I can't find my compass so I can't test the magnet capabilities at this time. :'(
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The patent says to insulate the copper wire.
I only used the cotton to insulate the ferrite core rod.
Enamel insulation that I used with my magnetic wire is as good as plastic insulation. It is recommended to use enamel insulated wire on coils to allow for more turns being the insulation is thinner. I don't have to repeat this test with plastic insulated copper wire.
DonL
PS - I can't find my compass so I can't test the magnet capabilities at this time. :'(
Hello DonL. Thanks for the explanation here. I would love to know if you'll increase the turns and how that changes the general efficiency. ALSO. Are you planning to build the rotor?
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Hello DonL. Thanks for the explanation here. I would love to know if you'll increase the turns and how that changes the general efficiency. ALSO. Are you planning to build the rotor?
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
First things first.
I want to determine what combination of modern day materials works the best.
Next steps:
1) carefully unwind the enamel copper wire
2) cover the bare gal. steel wire with a piece of cotton to insulate it from the bare copper wire in the next step
3) wind bare copper wire over the cotton and in between the gal. steel wire winds. Basically replacing the enamel copper wire with bare copper wire insulated with the piece of cotton between the two.
Cotton insulated copper wire is too expensive for most people today but in 1880 it may have been the only choice or at least inexpensive. Mr. Stubblefield was a farmer so I don't think he had a lot of money but who knows.
IF the enamel insulated copper wire is as good as cotton insulated copper wire then we can make these Earth Batteries a lot less expensive.
DonL
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Guys - have being going into things in greater depth and in discussion with experts. I trust you all realise FULLY that my training in all matters scientific is somewhat sparse.
Here's what I understand is the situation. The facts are that the 'galvanic' effect is similar to the dosing of metals that enable a transister's bias. It depends on an interaction of one metal type with another metal type - nothing else. This establishes a voltage and that's the voltage drop that's been accounted for on our own switching circuit. I really should have known this. But once it's established - which is simply established by proximity - then that voltage remains unless - obviously - it's degraded or destroyed - over time. It is absolutely NOT traditionally associated with a 'battery' and the most of those that I've spoken to have never heard of the Nathan Stubblefield 'earth battery'. Until Laser started this thread - nor had I.
Then. The fact is that Laser has exploited this effect in finding a way to generate a current from that voltage potential and, uniquely, uses it to generate enough current to move the rotor. That's the 'departure' or 'variation' that is entirely Laser's contribution. But the minute he gets the rotor to spin then we indeed have a generator
However, there is no question that the effect is enhanced when the surfaces are moistened. But that's explicable. Current is more easily enabled through a liquid than through the mass of the wires itself. That's to be expected. However, what is NOT likely to be happening is that the water molecules themselves are being changed. Which means that we've effectively got a solid state potential to generate current and at no apparent cost to the material of the coil nor to the body of the rotor. That's effectively a really elegant example of conservation of charge.
In Laser's first video example we have a combination of things. The material has been doped with salts to degrade their coatings which puts the different wires in closer contact with each other. This is obviously advantageous. And in the deeper layers of the coil - where there may be some residual damp - there is, as mentioned the possible added benefit of this same damp condition that assists in the flow of current. I get it that the iron must not touch the iron which requires some kind of material separation between the coils and I'm reasonably certain that one can apply any variety of materials to achieve this. What I'm trying to point to is that the application of the 'cotton field' is only because it's likely to absorb water readily and it's understood that water will enable that current flow. I don't know that it's required. But only further tests will establish this conclusively.
To my way of thinking - I am DELIGHTED with this variation of the Nathan Stubblefield Battery as I am now satisfied that it has been modified into LASERSABER's generator - which, apart from the reed switches - is solid state. While it is true that the level of current flow is somewhat nominal - it is also then true that we potentially have something - albeit rather bulky - that is able to deliver energy potentially and, dare I say it, perpetually - rust and occassional shorting excepted. That's HUGE.
I will be doing tests with my own material which will be assembled on campus - that I can exploit the considerable intellectual expertise available there. I'll be starting the build on Monday - but may yet need to impose on members here to give a detailed schematic on the rig. Bill? Someone? I'm still not sure how to join those wires and where to position the reed switches. If someone with some patience could sketch this out clearly and exactly and post it here I think we'd all be most obliged.
I was hoping that Jet could help us by doing a build but he's time is entirely proscribed and unfortunately he won't be joining us.
Regarding the need to get more energy out of it. That's definitely required. But as the rig is still scalable - then that's also resolvable. It may seem somewhat bizarre to have a structure the size of a small garden shed lighting a couple of house lights - but we just need to remember how big were our early ineffecient computers. To my way of thinking those hurdles will be resolved as time goes by.
As it relates to the solid state switching that we use in our technology - frankly I think this development is way more important. I can, in any event, see a happy marriage between the two. What I can do, which is of very real interest in this experimental evidence, is see some more justification for the thesis - which is always my overriding interest - especially as it relates to the potential to entirely conserve charge yet have current flowing. I hope that Laser won't object to my using it for this.
Regards,
Rosemary
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First things first.
I want to determine what combination of modern day materials works the best.
Next steps:
1) carefully unwind the enamel copper wire
2) cover the bare gal. steel wire with a piece of cotton to insulate it from the bare copper wire in the next step
3) wind bare copper wire over the cotton and in between the gal. steel wire winds. Basically replacing the enamel copper wire with bare copper wire insulated with the piece of cotton between the two.
Cotton insulated copper wire is too expensive for most people today but in 1880 it may have been the only choice or at least inexpensive. Mr. Stubblefield was a farmer so I don't think he had a lot of money but who knows.
IF the enamel insulated copper wire is as good as cotton insulated copper wire then we can make these Earth Batteries a lot less expensive.
DonL
Thanks again DonL. Your reasons are impeccable.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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He did. He used mag wire for the copper which is plastic coated.
Bill
This has to be understood carefully. If the two wires ware insulated there shouldn't be any voltage when the circuit is open. Any voltage measured will be suspicious and has to be looked into very carefully, as I said. Moisture should be excluded also.
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This has to be understood carefully. If the two wires ware insulated there shouldn't be any voltage when the circuit is open. Any voltage measured will be suspicious and has to be looked into very carefully, as I said. Moisture should be excluded also.
.
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It is recommended to use enamel insulated wire on coils to allow for more turns being the insulation is thinner
On standard coils yes. The thinner wire is more for voltage than amps. The higher voltage can push more amps on a larger wire secondary. With standard "hot" electricity you cant exceed the wires ampacity. The thin magnetic wire may work on the NS coil but cotton should still need to be interposed. The dielectric of the mag wire insulation would be nice to know.
In Stubblefields day cotton,paper,and mica were the main insulators. If you use a standard pvc insulated wire you will add another higher dielectric and diminish the electrostatic charge buildup on the cotton. If you make this coil with magnetic and iron wire without the cotton and pulse it, then it will still produce electricity but not on the scale as with damp cotton. I cant see it any other way myself.
Heres something else dealing with small voltages and amps. If your going to take definitive meter readings you may want to do this outside or a distance away from house wiring,and especially if there are fluorescent lights. Turning all power off works too. You are encased within a pulsing 60 hz electromagnetic field that does induce voltage as well as milli amps in a totally unconnected copper wire or device. Fluorescent lights with electronic ballasts really boost it. Even the electrostatic potential in the air can add to it. I have experimented with this and its in the Jt thread.
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Guys - another variation of the coil which Laser has put together. Very intriguing. This was posted in May and I wonder if Laser can give us an update here.
Regards,
Rosemary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2a3uTU0fgc&feature=related
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Sorry I just noticed that I'm repeating myself. Yet again. Apologies.
Rosemary
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Hi Guys,
I've got a hollow soft iron pipe that's been bent into a circle and then cut in half. It is also, just by happenstance the same size as the rotor that I had cut and designed by a genius engineer friend that I have. I'll photograph this later.
I thought of simply packing that hollow with iron filings. Do any of you know if this is likely to work - or if a solid core is required? Then the idea is to use that one half of the pipe and wrap it with copper and iron windings. I'll try and photograph the components later today - time permitting.
What may be of interest is whether or not the bent pipe around the rotor may help spin that rotor. I'll try and get a schematic to explain this more clearly and upload it with the photos of the pipe and that proposed rotor.
BTW the iron is cladded with something to stop it from rusting. I'll try and find out what exactly. But I intend putting the windings directly onto that surface.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Hi Guys,
I've got a hollow soft iron pipe that's been bent into a circle and then cut in half. It is also, just by happenstance the same size as the rotor that I had cut and designed by a genius engineer friend that I have. I'll photograph this later.
I thought of simply packing that hollow with iron filings. Do any of you know if this is likely to work - or if a solid core is required? Then the idea is to use that one half of the pipe and wrap it with copper and iron windings. I'll try and photograph the components later today - time permitting.
What may be of interest is whether or not the bent pipe around the rotor may help spin that rotor. I'll try and get a schematic to explain this more clearly and upload it with the photos of the pipe and that proposed rotor.
BTW the iron is cladded with something to stop it from rusting. I'll try and find out what exactly. But I intend putting the windings directly onto that surface.
Regards,
Rosemary
Mix the filings with epoxy in a thick paste and fill the pipe up. That will work fine as a core.
You can also use a long bolt for the core. Any type of soft (mild) steel will do. Just wrap it real good with electrical tape before you start to wind.
Ted
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Mix the filings with epoxy in a thick paste and fill the pipe up. That will work fine as a core.
You can also use a long bolt for the core. Any type of soft (mild) steel will do. Just wrap it real good with electrical tape before you start to wind.
Ted
Hi Ted. Thanks for this. And really nice to see you around. The 'bolt' is a really good idea. I think I'll try both as I might have a suitable one.
If the pipe is already covered with something - which it is - wouldn't that be enough? Or is insulation still required? I guess I'd need to find out what it's coated with first. I'm just not sure how 'proximate' the metals need to be. This is an entirely new departure from my usual studies. I certainly intend taking off the coating off the copper. If this is a no no - please advise.
Kindest as ever,
Rosemary
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Guys - this is the best I could do to explain the proposed layout of the pipe against the rotor. I'll see if it downloads and amend or explain as required.
OK. I sort of took. the labels are Coil - magnets postitioned as required - reed switch - possible boosters for the coil.
Hope that's self explanatory. The neat thing is that I can position magnets on that rotor in just about any position - up to and including covering the entire circle. The down side is that I can only fit ferrite magnets and they may not be strong enough. But it'll be interesting.
Regards,
Rosemary
edited BTW - The idea is to see if the rotation needs to be generated with the rotor at 90 degrees or 180 degrees to the coil. With this rig I can adjust that positioning. Also. I want to find out if a solid line of magnets adds or substracts from the 'spin'. Then too - I want to see if the secondary will assist if it's partially or completely wound with copper or copper and iron or iron - or any variation thereof. At least there may be a few more answers here - that's if it works at all. LOL
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@ All:
Just remember that, from what we have learned on the NS and JT topics that "soft" iron is not related to its hardness. It speaks to it's permeability or the ability to be magnetized one moment, and then not the next.
For the JT topic, we decided to go with cores that had very high permeability and these seemed to work very well.
I just wanted to point this out.
Bill
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@ All:
Just remember that, from what we have learned on the NS and JT topics that "soft" iron is not related to its hardness. It speaks to it's permeability or the ability to be magnetized one moment, and then not the next.
For the JT topic, we decided to go with cores that had very high permeability and these seemed to work very well.
I just wanted to point this out.
Bill
Hi Bill. Thanks for the reminder. I'm hoping that what I've got here is reasonably 'magnetisable' - if that's the concern - as we've tested it on Dave Lambright's rig. Is that epoxy filing mix likely to work? Or will it be too weak to do what's required?
And PLEASE could you give advice as to the proposed stripping of the copper to leave the thread bare? Is this wise? Or should I leave it with it's coating?
BTW What is it coated with? It seems to be a kind of plastic?
Kindest as ever,
Rosie
edited
and spelling
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Rose:
I call it plastic because the mag wire I bought said it had a polyurethane coating. Now, Don says his mag wire has enamel coating, which is probably true. As far as Ominbus's questions, no matter the coating, this "should not work" unless it is bare wire. But, it does.
As I have said before from my personal experiments and studies, I believe there is a galvanic component to this BUT, I also believe there is something more. What that is I can't really say but from everyone's experiments I am confident in my opinion here.
The more folks working with this and posting their results, the more we will all learn what is, and what is not.
Bill
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Rose:
I call it plastic because the mag wire I bought said it had a polyurethane coating. Now, Don says his mag wire has enamel coating, which is probably true. As far as Ominbus's questions, no matter the coating, this "should not work" unless it is bare wire. But, it does.
As I have said before from my personal experiments and studies, I believe there is a galvanic component to this BUT, I also believe there is something more. What that is I can't really say but from everyone's experiments I am confident in my opinion here.
The more folks working with this and posting their results, the more we will all learn what is, and what is not.
Bill
ta muchly Pirate. I'll get back here later today. Hopefully you'll be around. Meanwhile I'll give this some thought.
Regards,
Rosie
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@Pirate88179,
I really don't believe that insulated wires wound in a coil work when placed in a Faraday cage. Have you tried it yourself or you're relying on what someone else says? I trust you because you're a good an fair man but, remember, sometimes we may be somewhat gullible. This is a serious question and it shouldn't be taken over by amateurs and incompetent enthusiasts.
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@ Omnibus:
The only reason for a Farady cage, correct me if I am wrong, is to eliminate outside RF from TV, Radio, etc.
I have to say that I have not done this BUT, back in Stubblefield's day, there were no such thing. Maybe this is why I have never checked this.
I do know from a HAM friend of mine that we are bombarded with tons of RF from many different sources. Yes, this could be a power source.
My personal opinion is that, even if this were the power source, the local radio/tv station would not have to increase their output just because I were lighting things from it.
I am a big proponent of free energy. I do not care where this energy comes from as long as I can do what I want to with it. This is not to be confused with OU, but, as I have seen with my earth batteries and JT circuits, I can make a lot of light for free.
Not OU but, free to me.
Bill
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@Pirate88179,
Have no doubt that if the energy in the coil Is from tapping into some of. The fields around such as the one emitted from the local radio station, that would be stealing energy from that radio station. It is similar to those devices (say, the ones some are making in Ukraine) which steal energy from the high power lines when placed in close proximity to these lines. Therefore, it isn't at all true that:
My personal opinion is that, even if this were the power source, the local radio/tv station would not have to increase their output just because I were lighting things from it.
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Is it this what you mean?
Open the file on windows paint and correct it as you want it.
Jesus
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@Pirate88179,
Have no doubt that if the energy in the coil Is from tapping into some of. The fields around such as the one emitted from the local radio station, that would be stealing energy from that radio station. It is similar to those devices (say, the ones some are making in Ukraine) which steal energy from the high power lines when placed in close proximity to these lines. Therefore, it isn't at all true that:
IF these devices are being powered by rf it would NOT be stealing... by that logic listening to the radio is stealing...
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IF these devices are being powered by rf it would NOT be stealing... by that logic listening to the radio is stealing...
Listening to the radio would be stealing if it isn't subsidized. Listening to radio is similar to reading the free newspapers one finds in the streets. The publishers release them free because they have deals with advertisers and this is how pedestrians who pick these papers and read them benefit from the deal. Someone pays for that, though.
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Listening to the radio would be stealing if it isn't subsidized. Listening to radio is similar to reading the free newspapers one finds in the streets. The publishers release them free because they have deals with advertisers and this is how pedestrians who pick these papers and read them benefit from the deal. Someone pays for that, though.
i see. so your opinion is that if station WXYZ sets up a a "pay" radio station at FM 103.3 and told people not to tune in there unless they've paid, then station WXYZ could take legal action... ::)
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we are bombarded with tons of RF from many different sources [...] I do not care where this energy comes from [...] I can make a lot of light for free.
We've had this kind of "free" energy already from Coler and Roy Meyers a century ago... It's not something to rely on ::)
I also urge again, that if the device proposed in this topic works without water, then a faraday cage test *must* be done, otherwise it's a waste of time and only clamping on a dream.
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We've had this kind of "free" energy already from Coler and Roy Meyers a century ago... It's not something to rely on ::)
and we've had this kind of 'advice' for almost as long, maybe even longer... it's not something to rely on. ;) even ONE led in complete darkness is alot of light. if you were in complete darkness and your neighbor had some led's running off a NS coil, i wonder if you wouldn't be over at your neighbors, relying on it...
I also urge again, that if the device proposed in this topic works without water, then a faraday cage test *must* be done, otherwise it's a waste of time and only clamping on a dream.
it is a simple experiment... please let us know how your test turns out.
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@Pirate88179,
I really don't believe that insulated wires wound in a coil work when placed in a Faraday cage.
Fortunately science is NOT progressed by 'belief' but by experimental evidence.
...but, remember, sometimes we may be somewhat gullible. This is a serious question and it shouldn't be taken over by amateurs and incompetent enthusiasts.
Golly. I suspect he may be referring to me. LOL. Whatever next! ;D
Rosemary.
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Is it this what you mean?
Open the file on windows paint and correct it as you want it.
Jesus
Hello Jesus. It's definitely close. But I got bored with putting in all the coils. It's meant to wrap around the whole of that half structure and I'll put bobbins? is that the term? at the ends. I also want to try with the second half of that same pipe - but will delay this until and if I can get the rotor to spin. Also. The rotor extends beyond the pipe and not as I've represented it. In other words the diameter of the pipe is marginally smaller rather than bigger than the rotor's diameter. I only drew it this way to show the actual shape of the proposed core.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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I thought of simply packing that hollow with iron filings
You may be able to pound coat hangers or welding rods into it.
When you couple an inductance to the magnetic field of a power line,that inductance becomes part of the circuit putting a load on the circuit. I cant see electromagnetic radio frequencies through the air putting a load on the transmitter. Unless its proven Ill grab any electromagnetic wave and use it. I just cant re transmit any audio,visual or communication signals. Seeing how radio waves radiate out in all directions it would take a large magnetic field to converge them to one spot. If that happened you would have cars,buses,trains and steel in buildings on top of your coil. If you were still alive you could call it the Black hole coil!
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Rose:
I call it plastic because the mag wire I bought said it had a polyurethane coating. Now, Don says his mag wire has enamel coating, which is probably true. As far as Ominbus's questions, no matter the coating, this "should not work" unless it is bare wire. But, it does.
As I have said before from my personal experiments and studies, I believe there is a galvanic component to this BUT, I also believe there is something more. What that is I can't really say but from everyone's experiments I am confident in my opinion here.
The more folks working with this and posting their results, the more we will all learn what is, and what is not.
Bill
Hello Bill. Here's the thing. Laser has already tested the insulated wiring as his wires DO NOT touch each other. He does not - from what I've seen - strip his copper. Copper is usually insulated. Therefore the iron and copper are absolutely separate both on and between each of his windings. So I entirely agree that this much is done and dusted. The practical, theoretical and actual evidence is, therefore, that the galvanic effect is NOT eliminated with insulation - I would have thought?
Also - to address this latest concern that the 'energy' is coming from RF. Again. My knowledge of all things is limited. But I thought that the principle of picking up RF rather relied on open ended wiring - and there's nothing required to be open ended in any of Laser's builds. Therefore I would have thought that this could be entirely discounted as a source of the energy as is now being suggested. Quite apart from which, in the use of any transistor - MOSFET IGBT whatever - then they would, theoretically be entirely distorted by this - as RF is everywhere.
But - again - I don't know the answer here. But I have a question. If a radio broadcasts at a certain frequency is it required that the radio station put out these frequencies at ever increasing amounts as their ratings improve? I doubt it. 2, 20, 2000 or 2 billion listeners tuned into one station makes no difference to the required output. Which speaks eloquently to the principles of aether energies, in my humble opinion. It therefore is an unlikely argument to use against OU. But I suspect that it's largely irrelevant as a description of what's happening here precisely because Laser's rig is NOT open ended. He's got reed switches at both ends and they are opening and closing in synch with those collapsing fields.
Regards,
Rosemary
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i see. so your opinion is that if station WXYZ sets up a a "pay" radio station at FM 103.3 and told people not to tune in there unless they've paid, then station WXYZ could take legal action... ::)
Correct, unless station WXYZ has deals with advertisers and can afford not to charge you. Otherwise it will definitely charge you, as is the practice nowadays. Like I said, similar as in the newspaper industry -- some newspapers are free but many more are paid.
It is not a matter of discussion that whoever taps into the high voltage power lines or a radio station for the purposes of using these as energy sources is in fact a robber, stealing energy from these enterprises. That should be clear to anybody prior to coming to this forum to discuss free energy and OU.
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It's pretty sad that incompetent amateurs hijack forums such as this and overwhelm it with their gibberish which greatly hinders the fruitful discussions.
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You may be able to pound coat hangers or welding rods into it.
Thanks Iota. I think it'll be easier with iron filings and I get it they will also work. It actually is interesting as I could also try and pack the inside with copper as another variation of this. But it all first depends on whether this will get the rotor to spin. Can't wait to find out.
When you couple an inductance to the magnetic field of a power line,that inductance becomes part of the circuit putting a load on the circuit. I cant see electromagnetic radio frequencies through the air putting a load on the transmitter. Unless its proven Ill grab any electromagnetic wave and use it. I just cant re transmit any audio,visual or communication signals. Seeing how radio waves radiate out in all directions it would take a large magnetic field to converge them to one spot. If that happened you would have cars,buses,trains and steel in buildings on top of your coil. If you were still alive you could call it the Black hole coil!
Nice to see another argument against this.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Correct, unless station WXYZ has deals with advertisers and can afford not to charge you. Otherwise it will definitely charge you, as is the practice nowadays. Like I said, similar as in the newspaper industry -- some newspapers are free but many more are paid.
It is not a matter of discussion that whoever taps into the high voltage power lines or a radio station for the purposes of using these as energy sources is in fact a robber, stealing energy from these enterprises. That should be clear to anybody prior to coming to this forum to discuss free energy and OU.
COOL! so i can set up my own station, NOT deal with advertising and just start charging everyone using a radio (or even an antenna!) that is within the broadcast area of my transmitter!!! ::)
indeed, it is simply a matter of your OPINION. regardless, you are putting the cart before the horse as usual. you would need to demonstrate that these coils are tuning in the specific station...
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It's pretty sad that incompetent amateurs hijack forums such as this and overwhelm it with their gibberish which greatly hinders the fruitful discussions.
indeed. so you should return to your steorn threads... where you can talk and theorize with flawed logic to your heart's content.
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But Guys, on a more serious note - I understood that Omnibus' initial objection to this experiment which he regards as 'trivial' is because the galvanic action is enabled with the addition of water which is seen as an electrolyte. Therefore we are using a battery principle rather than free energy. If we could just put this to bed - for once and for all. Water is ABSOLUTELY NOT REQUIRED. Here's the proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2a3uTU0fgc&feature=related
This discounts any claims that the rig REQUIRES an electrolyte. But even if it did - then the water is definitely not being used as is typically used with electrolytes where the molecules are constituted and reconstituted. Hopefully we'll soon get some detailed analysis on this from a qualified chemist. This also means that technically this is NOT a battery. If anything - it's a generator. I'm not sure if the galvanic effect is still regarded as a battery effect of sorts - but WIKI's definition indicates that it requires a salt bridge and I would have thought that this argues for an electrolyte.
The intriguing thing here, to me, is that two metals can develop a useable voltage potential. Personally I think that this is what Nathan Stubblefield saw so clearly and which, possibly, we have all missed - until Lasersaber's input - and, correctly - it seems I should also be giving some real and belated tribute to those Joule Thief contributors. It's just that I never read those threads. And I never knew of this effect. Clearly a huge omission on my part. But I intend to make up for it.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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@WilbyInebriated
Don't be ridiculous. Maybe you haven't realized yet, but it is the job of the topicstarter to check the source of power, and not reverse. Avoiding that or pushing it off to others is lame, especially if we are talking about the 2 biggest and most widely known mistakes for "free energy":
#1 galvanic reaction
#2 picking up external EMF
Every experimenter should check these 2 things before making claims. It's like the ABC in the overunity scene. Once both of them have been eliminated, the device will be interesting for further investigation and replication.
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COOL! so i can set up my own station, NOT deal with advertising and just start charging everyone using a radio (or even an antenna!) that is within the broadcast area of my transmitter!!! ::)
indeed, it is simply a matter of your OPINION. regardless, you are putting the cart before the horse as usual. you would need to demonstrate that these coils are tuning in the specific station...
You may go on with your nonsense as long as you want but it will still remain nonsense and will be clogging the bandwidth of this forum.
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@WilbyInebriated
Don't be ridiculous. Maybe you haven't realized yet, but it is the job of the topicstarter to check the source of power, and not reverse. Avoiding that or pushing it off to others is lame, especially if we are talking about the 2 biggest and most widely known mistakes for "free energy":
#1 galvanic reaction
#2 picking up external EMF
Every experimenter should check these 2 things before making claims. It's like the ABC in the overunity scene. Once both of them have been eliminated, the device will be interesting for further investigation and replication.
Of course.
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indeed. so you should return to your steorn threads... where you can talk and theorize with flawed logic to your heart's content.
Like I said, you can spew your nonsense all you want but it will still remain nonsense.
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@WilbyInebriated
Don't be ridiculous. Maybe you haven't realized yet, but it is the job of the topicstarter to check the source of power, and not reverse. Avoiding that or pushing it off to others is lame, especially if we are talking about the 2 biggest and most widely known mistakes for "free energy":
#1 galvanic reaction
#2 picking up external EMF
Every experimenter should check these 2 things before making claims. It's like the ABC in the overunity scene. Once both of them have been eliminated, the device will be interesting for further investigation and replication.
don't be ridiculous... maybe you haven't realized it yet, but nobody really wants to do your test for you because your 'concerns' are obviously not their concerns. if you are SO concerned about it then wind a coil, toss it in your faraday cage and then let us know the results. furthermore, it is not his 'job' and he has never claimed 'overunity'. the only lame thing here (other than omnibus...) is you telling others what is 'required' of them. ::)
it is obviously interesting to some as there already ARE replications and investigations. so it doesn't interest you, no one cares... mint?
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@WilbyInebriated
Don't be ridiculous. Maybe you haven't realized yet, but it is the job of the topicstarter to check the source of power, and not reverse. Avoiding that or pushing it off to others is lame, especially if we are talking about the 2 biggest and most widely known mistakes for "free energy":
#1 galvanic reaction
#2 picking up external EMF
Every experimenter should check these 2 things before making claims. It's like the ABC in the overunity scene. Once it has been shown, that none of these 2 cases apply, then the device will be interesting for further investigation and replication.
@gauschor
IF a galavanic reaction DOES NOT REQUIRE AN ELECTROLYTE WHY THEN CAN IT NOT BE CONSIDERED TO BE OU. THERE IS NO DEGRADATION OF THE MATERIAL - IT'S SOLID STATE. IT'S CAPABLE OF GENERATING POTENTIAL DIFFERENCE. THAT'S ALWAYS THE SOURCE OF ELECTRIC ENERGY. WHAT EXACTLY MITIGATES AGAINST THIS AS A POTENTIAL ENERGY SOURCE? I suggest - with respect, that the only thing that is RIDICULOUS - as you put it - is to discount the benefit because you're hidebound on the concept of a typical battery depleting energy in a typical fashion. Kindly check out the appropriate links provided. AN ELECTROLYTE IS NOT REQUIRED.
And with respect. While you and Omnibus seem overly anxious to protect the community from any kind of enthusiasm I wonder if it is also REQUIRED that you then inject this thread with repeated irrelevancies related to those topics that have already been addressed. If you are relying on the galavanic effect in terms of WIKI definition then this application is an entire departure and your understanding of this as a typical battery or typical galvanic effect is also therefore evidently FLAWED.
Rosemary
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don't be ridiculous... maybe you haven't realized it yet, but nobody really wants to do your test for you because your 'concerns' are obviously not their concerns. if you are SO concerned about it then wind a coil, toss it in your faraday cage and then let us know the results. furthermore, it is not his 'job' and he has never claimed 'overunity'. the only lame thing here (other than omnibus...) is you telling others what is 'required' of them. ::)
it is obviously interesting to some as there already ARE replications and investigations. so it doesn't interest you, no one cares... mint?
And may I second this. I really think that we've had enough of your distractions Omnibus. I think the polarisation has now drifted such that this should be resolved by our monitors. If this subject is to be outlawed then let Stefan rule on it. Certainly I think the majority of us would prefer it that you simply desist in posting. It's crassly insensitive of you to think that you can determine who may or may not contribute and I think you're systematically destroying what is an entirely engrossing subject.
Rosemary
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And may I second this. I really think that we've had enough of your distractions Omnibus. I think the polarisation has now drifted such that this should be resolved by our monitors. If this subject is to be outlawed then let Stefan rule on it. Certainly I think the majority of us would prefer it that you simply desist in posting. It's crassly insensitive of you to think that you can determine who may or may not contribute and I think you're systematically destroying what is an entirely engrossing subject.
Rosemary
The fair ruling by Stefan would be to ban you from the forum which will prevent it from being clogged by useless incompetent rants. OU community needs to advance in a positive professional direction and not fall an easy prey to it's enemies due to the laborious activity of incompetents.
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don't be ridiculous... maybe you haven't realized it yet, but nobody really wants to do your test for you because your 'concerns' are obviously not their concerns. if you are SO concerned about it then wind a coil, toss it in your faraday cage and then let us know the results. furthermore, it is not his 'job' and he has never claimed 'overunity'. the only lame thing here (other than omnibus...) is you telling others what is 'required' of them. ::)
it is obviously interesting to some as there already ARE replications and investigations. so it doesn't interest you, no one cares... mint?
This thread (and, recently, the entire forum, unfortunately) is overwhelmed by incompetent participants such as you and Rosemary Ainslie as the most prominent examples. That's too bad but, I guess, that goes with the territory. at this point OU is free for all and those interested in sensible discussions have to tolerate the flooding by such trolls. Some forums exercise ban on trolls such as you but here in this forum some participants abuse the tolerant atmosphere too much.
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Omnibus - you have accused lasersaber of a neurotic reach at self glorification in posting his rig - in the first instance. Then you charged through each page loudly proclaiming to all and sundry that he's not only NOT got OU but he has no right to even post on this thread and possibly not even on this forum. You have challenged my own competence on just about each page of this thread and certainly all over my own thread. And you have even now taken the attack to Wilby and to other forum members. You've demanded that Bill take over the subject here and loudly and rather rudely required that our interest in Lasersaber's device be DROPPED.
You based your complaints on the fact that the Nathan Stubblefield battery is simply a child's example of a battery doing what a battery does best - which is to lose its energy. But careful analysis of the evidence shows that this assumption is INCORRECT. Not only do you not reference that analysis but you continue with your demands that my own contributions be ignored and then state that anyone who supports this device is DELUDED into thinking that there are any advantages.
We know your opinion. But it seems that your desire to be heard is such that you are deliberately 'killing' this thread - in the interests of putting this subject to a close. If you stated your opinion once then that would be understandable - and no-one could reasonably object. But you state it repeatedly - on every page and after every post. And there is no well considered argument put forward to support your opinion. There is no reach at an explanation. And when your opinions are proven to be fallacious - you continue with them anyway. On every page - as mentioned. That's a well known troll technique. The intention is to reach a level of confrontation that the subject is then developed on a 'personal level' and the thread is then locked. I put it to you that this is your motive. I get it that you think we're all rather intellectually limited. But we all only need to know of your attitude JUST ONCE. It's enough for even such as I to learn what is your opinion. But then go away. That would be appropriate. But it seems that there is an overriding need to kill this subject entirely. For some reason we may not research it. Why is that? What is your actual motive? Have you invested in Steorne's licensing that you need to keep his and only his technology alive? And if your general concerns are for the purity of research then why are you not anxious to clean up those more obviously absurd topics on this forum? Why don't you charge through all the threads with this copious evidence of your general intolerance that your concerns here can be considered valid? Again. Why? Why do you tolerate all and sundry but are entirely unable to tolerate this thread topic? I put it to you again - that you have a vested interest in killing off this technology. And I suspect that it is self serving and I suspect that it's being done under the PRETENSE of protecting all and sundry against my own input or that input from any like minded amongst our members. That's highly suspicious. Indeed. Your motives here are highly suspicious.
If this topic had been left in your capable hands you would have assured us all that there is nothing in the galvanic effect and that there is no value in lasersaber's device. The interest would have died. And then you would have been happy. Unfortunately you DID NOT succeed. Clearly lasersaber's device is NOT a typical battery. And the effects are clearly OU. If you disagree then that is your right. It is NOT your right to dominate the discussion on this your opinion or - indeed - these your opinions. We know them now. We do NOT need to be reminded on each and every post made here. Frankly it is my opinion that you are in gross breach of forum etiquette and good manners and I would strongly recommend that - if you wish to remain plausible - that you, at its least, learn to be courteous - and respect a member's requirement to post their technologies as they - and NOT as YOU - require.
Rosemary
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Omnibus - you have accused lasersaber of a neurotic reach at self glorification in posting his rig - in the first instance. Then you charged through each page loudly proclaiming to all and sundry that he's not only NOT got OU but he has no right to even post on this thread and possibly not even on this forum. You have challenged my own competence on just about each page of this thread and certainly all over my own thread. And you have even now taken the attack to Wilby and to other forum members. You've demanded that Bill take over the subject here and loudly and rather rudely required that our interest in Lasersaber's device be DROPPED.
You based your complaints on the fact that the Nathan Stubblefield battery is simply a child's example of a battery doing what a battery does best - which is to lose its energy. But careful analysis of the evidence shows that this assumption is INCORRECT. Not only do you not reference that analysis but you continue with your demands that my own contributions be ignored and then state that anyone who supports this device is DELUDED into thinking that there are any advantages.
We know your opinion. But it seems that your desire to be heard is such that you are deliberately 'killing' this thread - in the interests of putting this subject to a close. If you stated your opinion once then that would be understandable - and no-one could reasonably object. But you state it repeatedly - on every page and after every post. And there is no well considered argument put forward to support your opinion. There is no reach at an explanation. And when your opinions are proven to be fallacious - you continue with them anyway. On every page - as mentioned. That's a well known troll technique. The intention is to reach a level of confrontation that the subject is then developed on a 'personal level' and the thread is then locked. I put it to you that this is your motive. I get it that you think we're all rather intellectually limited. But we all only need to know of your attitude JUST ONCE. It's enough for even such as I to learn what is your opinion. But then go away. That would be appropriate. But it seems that there is an overriding need to kill this subject entirely. For some reason we may not research it. Why is that? What is your actual motive? Have you invested in Steorne's licensing that you need to keep his and only his technology alive? And if your general concerns are for the purity of research then why are you not anxious to clean up those more obviously absurd topics on this forum? Why don't you charge through all the threads with this copious evidence of your general intolerance that your concerns here can be considered valid? Again. Why? Why do you tolerate all and sundry but are entirely unable to tolerate this thread topic? I put it to you again - that you have a vested interest in killing off this technology. And I suspect that it is self serving and I suspect that it's being done under the PRETENSE of protecting all and sundry against my own input or that input from any like minded amongst our members. That's highly suspicious. Indeed. Your motives here are highly suspicious.
If this topic had been left in your capable hands you would have assured us all that there is nothing in the galvanic effect and that there is no value in lasersaber's device. The interest would have died. And then you would have been happy. Unfortunately you DID NOT succeed. Clearly lasersaber's device is NOT a typical battery. And the effects are clearly OU. If you disagree then that is your right. It is NOT your right to dominate the discussion on this your opinion or - indeed - these your opinions. We know them now. We do NOT need to be reminded on each and every post made here. Frankly it is my opinion that you are in gross breach of forum etiquette and good manners and I would strongly recommend that - if you wish to remain plausible - that you, at its least, learn to be courteous - and respect a member's requirement to post their technologies as they - and NOT as YOU - require.
Rosemary
I completely agree with your statement, I have been looking at the terms and conditions of this forum
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5554.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5554.0)
and 5.1 that he is clearly in breach of.
5.1 defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the rights of other users or any third parties;
I would like to see Bill become a moderator for this thread, I feel he is very fair and reasonable, and is a successful moderator on other threads.
I hope this matter will get cleared up soon.
cat
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... I have been looking at the terms and conditions of this forum
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5554.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5554.0)
and 5.1 that he is clearly in breach of.I would like to see Bill become a moderator for this thread, I feel he is very fair and reasonable, and is a successful moderator on other threads.
I hope this matter will get cleared up soon.
cat
Hi Cat. Me too. I just so want to move on. As it is lasersaber is clearly reluctant to post here and it's a severe loss to those of us who depend on his input. It it my opinion that Omnibus is ENTIRELY out of line. I've said it before. He could only justify this his attitude - if he also has license as a forum owner.
Kindest as ever,
Rosie
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Those people that enjoy trashing our honest efforts to achieve OU make me feel like this:
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On the other side. People who are true seekers and try hard to achieve the OU goal make me feel like this:
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On the other side. People who are true seekers and try hard to achieve the OU goal make me feel like this:
LOL Jesus. I suspect you're beginning to see the need to fight for OU. I assure it's required.
;D
Kindest as ever,
Rosemary
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Water is ABSOLUTELY NOT REQUIRED. Here's the proof.
Lasers magnesium cell is basically a dry cell. Still a galvanic action from humidty and temperature with the magnesium. The magnesium will still be used up at some point. The Ns coil is a different animal.
IF a galvanic reaction DOES NOT REQUIRE AN ELECTROLYTE WHY THEN CAN IT NOT BE CONSIDERED TO BE OU
Over unity is a large word. Pirate and I have had conversations on this. If the aether is what produces current in any conductor as some researchers think,then there can be no Ou. The aether is a never ending sea. The device or materiel's itself would just be the conduit. Standard electric reference points for the aether dont really exist yet.
Standard reference points in electricity mainly deal with the problem of heat or watts. Too much current on a given size wire can only take so much heat. Conversely if it was possible, cold can stop the flow of electricity.
This forum is Called Overunity. Not everyone here is trying to prove over unity. In fact most arent. Its a place to find a cheaper and more economical way to produce power. I dont care if Over unity is real or not.
I have been on the Internet since 1988. Opinions on forums can turn quickly into a boxing match. If someone is adamant about their views then leave it alone. Peace and harmony is a better way to research.
Ok whos got the device to power my whole home so I can get off the grid? :)
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Regarding the devices which work without any water:
The request to put these into a faraday cage has absolutely nothing to do with "trash". Instead it is necessary, because it can prevent miscalculations in further prototypes of the device. You need to know or at least estimate what power source you are dealing with. Only then you can progress and advance successfully in experiments. I myself experienced in prior experiments many faulty measurements due to external EMF interferences, unto an extend that it can't be omitted anymore. Therefore these problematic disturbing "3rd party power sources" must be eliminated as well as in any way possible.
To achieve that, I suggest the experimenter performs at least a test with an "amateur faraday cage": Take a cardboard box, cover all sides with cheap aluminium foil from the grocery, earth it, put the device into it. Then lead 2 short wires from the device to the outside of the box and measure again. I'm interested in the results.
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This is not my thread but there is a difference betwen a person that writes:
To achieve that, I suggest the experimenter performs at least a test with an "amateur faraday cage": Take a cardboard box, cover all sides with cheap aluminium foil from the grocery, earth it, put the device into it. Then lead 2 short wires from the device to the outside of the box and measure again. I'm interested in the results.
And the person that writes:
I took a cardboard box, covered all sides with cheap aluminium foil from the grocery, earth it, put the device into it. Then lead 2 short wires from the device to the outside of the box and measured again. If you are interested in the results I can post them here for everybody's benefit.
Remember this is just an example of what we need to achieve our goal.
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Omnibus - you have accused lasersaber of a neurotic reach at self glorification in posting his rig - in the first instance. Then you charged through each page loudly proclaiming to all and sundry that he's not only NOT got OU but he has no right to even post on this thread and possibly not even on this forum. You have challenged my own competence on just about each page of this thread and certainly all over my own thread. And you have even now taken the attack to Wilby and to other forum members. You've demanded that Bill take over the subject here and loudly and rather rudely required that our interest in Lasersaber's device be DROPPED.
You based your complaints on the fact that the Nathan Stubblefield battery is simply a child's example of a battery doing what a battery does best - which is to lose its energy. But careful analysis of the evidence shows that this assumption is INCORRECT. Not only do you not reference that analysis but you continue with your demands that my own contributions be ignored and then state that anyone who supports this device is DELUDED into thinking that there are any advantages.
We know your opinion. But it seems that your desire to be heard is such that you are deliberately 'killing' this thread - in the interests of putting this subject to a close. If you stated your opinion once then that would be understandable - and no-one could reasonably object. But you state it repeatedly - on every page and after every post. And there is no well considered argument put forward to support your opinion. There is no reach at an explanation. And when your opinions are proven to be fallacious - you continue with them anyway. On every page - as mentioned. That's a well known troll technique. The intention is to reach a level of confrontation that the subject is then developed on a 'personal level' and the thread is then locked. I put it to you that this is your motive. I get it that you think we're all rather intellectually limited. But we all only need to know of your attitude JUST ONCE. It's enough for even such as I to learn what is your opinion. But then go away. That would be appropriate. But it seems that there is an overriding need to kill this subject entirely. For some reason we may not research it. Why is that? What is your actual motive? Have you invested in Steorne's licensing that you need to keep his and only his technology alive? And if your general concerns are for the purity of research then why are you not anxious to clean up those more obviously absurd topics on this forum? Why don't you charge through all the threads with this copious evidence of your general intolerance that your concerns here can be considered valid? Again. Why? Why do you tolerate all and sundry but are entirely unable to tolerate this thread topic? I put it to you again - that you have a vested interest in killing off this technology. And I suspect that it is self serving and I suspect that it's being done under the PRETENSE of protecting all and sundry against my own input or that input from any like minded amongst our members. That's highly suspicious. Indeed. Your motives here are highly suspicious.
If this topic had been left in your capable hands you would have assured us all that there is nothing in the galvanic effect and that there is no value in lasersaber's device. The interest would have died. And then you would have been happy. Unfortunately you DID NOT succeed. Clearly lasersaber's device is NOT a typical battery. And the effects are clearly OU. If you disagree then that is your right. It is NOT your right to dominate the discussion on this your opinion or - indeed - these your opinions. We know them now. We do NOT need to be reminded on each and every post made here. Frankly it is my opinion that you are in gross breach of forum etiquette and good manners and I would strongly recommend that - if you wish to remain plausible - that you, at its least, learn to be courteous - and respect a member's requirement to post their technologies as they - and NOT as YOU - require.
Rosemary
One can only wonder how much longer will so much crap be tolerated to clog the important discussions in this forum.
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Regarding the devices which work without any water:
The request to put these into a faraday cage has absolutely nothing to do with "trash". Instead it is necessary, because it can prevent miscalculations in further prototypes of the device. You need to know or at least estimate what power source you are dealing with. Only then you can progress and advance successfully in experiments. I myself experienced in prior experiments many faulty measurements due to external EMF interferences, unto an extend that it can't be omitted anymore. Therefore these problematic disturbing "3rd party power sources" must be eliminated as well as in any way possible.
To achieve that, I suggest the experimenter performs at least a test with an "amateur faraday cage": Take a cardboard box, cover all sides with cheap aluminium foil from the grocery, earth it, put the device into it. Then lead 2 short wires from the device to the outside of the box and measure again. I'm interested in the results.
How much should we bet that none of the experimenters here will do that and film it and post it? Thats been a common problem on the forums that people DO NOT want to show their FAILED experiments. And really, there is nothing wrong with showing the good and the bad results. Its human nature I think to not want to show our failed attempts at anything.
:-X
J.
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Hi all I just signed up because I find this to be very interesting ........If someone such as "lasersaber" can make this work for such a long period of time...does it really matter if its a battery....or if it's wetted...seems to me we have an endless supply of salt water...it seems to me to be a waste of energy arguing.......I tried making one ......didn't work......due to lack of proper materials...........youtube vidieos' don't work for me I'm on dial up ....sucks.........I tried , soft core wound in cotton ,wound a layer of steel wire(electric fence wire)..then a layer of cotton...then a layer of stripped extension cord multiple strands ..........not sure if extension cord wire is insulated or not ,assuming its' not...........three layers of each ...but the winds were not uniform and not tight together..........discussion on the topic is fasinating....arguing about what it is, is a waste of everybodies time ...........lets focous on the topic at hand.........shylo
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To achieve that, I suggest the experimenter performs at least a test with an "amateur faraday cage": Take a cardboard box, cover all sides with cheap aluminium foil from the grocery, earth it, put the device into it. Then lead 2 short wires from the device to the outside of the box and measure again. I'm interested in the results.
really? and that's it? then it's debunked? you and omnibus think a faraday cage is a 'one size fits all' thing don't you... ::)
what you suggest will only short out the e-field of em waves with wavelengths longer than the vhf range... if you knew how a faraday cage works or had ever experimented with one you would know this. what about all the other noise, like 60hz?
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How much should we bet that none of the experimenters here will do that and film it and post it? Thats been a common problem on the forums that people DO NOT want to show their FAILED experiments. And really, there is nothing wrong with showing the good and the bad results. Its human nature I think to not want to show our failed attempts at anything.
:-X
J.
NOT TRUE. I am more than willing to report on failed experiments. And I've seen many threads where experimenters own up to failed tests. I personally think failed tests are as important as any other - because they're scientifically relevant and required for progress.
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Hi all I just signed up because I find this to be very interesting ........If someone such as "lasersaber" can make this work for such a long period of time...does it really matter if its a battery....or if it's wetted...seems to me we have an endless supply of salt water...it seems to me to be a waste of energy arguing.......I tried making one ......didn't work......due to lack of proper materials...........youtube vidieos' don't work for me I'm on dial up ....sucks.........I tried , soft core wound in cotton ,wound a layer of steel wire(electric fence wire)..then a layer of cotton...then a layer of stripped extension cord multiple strands ..........not sure if extension cord wire is insulated or not ,assuming its' not...........three layers of each ...but the winds were not uniform and not tight together..........discussion on the topic is fasinating....arguing about what it is, is a waste of everybodies time ...........lets focous on the topic at hand.........shylo
Shylo - welcome to the discussion.
The trick is to wind bifilar iron and copper. Lasersaber uses cotton coated wire - and T shirt type cotton between each winding layer. But interesting to read that pure wire does not work. did you use the reed switches and the same type rotor?
Regards,
Rosemary
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what you suggest will only short out the e-field of em waves with wavelengths longer than the vhf range... if you knew how a faraday cage works or had ever experimented with one you would know this. what about all the other noise, like 60hz?
That's why I call it "amateur faraday cage". I should have added that for best results with the amatuer box one should go outside into the open empty country and then check the device. At least a considerable part of interferences will be prevented this way. But as it is now even the electric distribution boards in lasersabres room can easily cause the coils to collect hundreds (!) of milliVolts. I can do this myself with a simple wire anytime, why should it be different in lasersabres room? You'll certainly understand that this is a huge problem when needing to evaluate the results. Thus my suggestion with the amateur box outside, which shouldn't be too costly.
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That's why I call it "amateur faraday cage". I should have added that for best results with the amatuer box one should go outside into the open empty country and then check the device. You can't do much more without getting it too costly. At least a considerable part of interferences will be stopped this way. But as it is now even the electric distribution boards in lasersabres room can easily collect hundreds of milliVolts. I can do myself with a simple wire, why should it be different in lasersabres room? You'll certainly understand that this is a problem when needing to evaluate the results and that any results can easily misinterpreted. Thus my suggestion with the amateur box, which shouldn't be too costly.
Then do the tests and tell us the results please.
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Here is a post from jeanna on the : Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications thread
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg256786#new (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg256786#new)
Quote
Hi everybody,
Lidmotor just pm'd me this link to someone in spain who has made a lasersaber stubblefield with the addition of a capacitor. I tried the cap once and found that the metal seemed to last.
I still do not have a working unit myself, but this guy does.
Have a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihmGdDpB2o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4heZ0_rYdvg
jeanna
End quote
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@Rosemary:
I have not built the NS coils, because of the simple fact that I can pickup hundreds of mV in my own experimentation room with a pair of cables 3 meter length. I don't even need to wind them up nicely. I am highly assuming that the same happens with the proposed NS coils of lasersabre. If he claims, that it isn't the case, and his power comes from somewhere else, it is his job, to prove it or at least try to eliminate the most disturbing factors. Understood?
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@Rosemary:
I have not built the NS coils, because of the simple fact that I can pickup hundreds of mV in my own experimentation room with a pair of cables 3 meter length. I don't even need to wind them up nicely. I am highly assuming that the same happens with the proposed NS coils of lasersabre. If he claims, that it isn't the case, and his power comes from somewhere else, it is his job, to prove it. Understood?
@ grauchor
Indeed. IF he claimed anything at all. He does not. He simply points at the experiment and shows us what's happening. Perhaps you and Omnibus could return the favour and follow that good example.
Rosemary
edited.
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@Rosemary:
I have not built the NS coils, because of the simple fact that I can pickup hundreds of mV in my own experimentation room with a pair of cables 3 meter length. I don't even need to wind them up nicely. I am highly assuming that the same happens with the proposed NS coils of lasersabre. If he claims, that it isn't the case, and his power comes from somewhere else, it is his job, to prove it or at least try to eliminate the most disturbing factors. Understood?
I said it before and I will say it one more time.
There were NO radio stations at that time anywhere nor POWER GRIDS in Stubblefield's area of the country when he was doing his work. So why, if someone is replicating his work and his results, does a Faraday cage become the most important focus?
Stubblefield's devices are documented to have worked back then. Many folks, including myself, have built them and they work. Now Lasersaber takes it to the next level and suddenly, it must only work due to rf ?
One more time....there was NO RF back in Stubblefield's day which is why he is known as the father of RADIO. It did not exist before him. Does this make sense now?
Bill
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IF he claimed anything at all. He does not. He simply points at the experiment and shows us what's happening.
Are you not interested where that power could come from ???
return the favour and follow that good example.
What good example?
If I find out the very first time in my life how a galvanic cell works and then start a topic on that, is this a good example? No.
If I find out the very first time in my life that I can pick up some voltage when putting a cable into the air and then start a topic on it, is this a good example? No.
We are talking about commonly known things in electricity. And even if both of these examples are not well known by the individual one can easily apply this knowledge yourself with a simple google search. And that's why I didn't start a topic a year ago about "collecting free energy from the air". This would have been a joke, but you are talking about such a thing as if it's the "killa device from outa space".
If both of the above examples aren't the case, then he needs to prove it, as I said before. Unless this happens, there is absolutely nothing special to it, because it's most likely a power source from the grid.
@Pirate: I am talking of the devices developed by lasersaber, not the real Stubblefield Coils. Btw. did you know Stubblefields family got sick because the water was contaminated?
I got this post in forum, supposedly written by his grandchildren, here a quote:
Grandpa was now once again blamed by his wife of 36 years for accidentally poisoning three of their nine children through inadvertencies. Neither, at the time of their experimenting with various mixtures of Pitchblende and salt crystals within their 85 farmland soil, knew it was contaminating Teleph-on-delgreen. From 1881 to 1906, the soil-coil RF antenna "hotspots" -- that made it possible for Grandpa Nathan Stubblefield to develop and patent the 1898 induction earth batteries and 1908 Wireless Telephoneâ„¢ -- did contaminate their foodstuffs and water.
NOTE: Pitchblende is Uranium rich ore the same stuff M Currie used to extract RADIUM.
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3497-aromaz-radiant-energy-joint-research-group-22.html#post47606 (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3497-aromaz-radiant-energy-joint-research-group-22.html#post47606)
Are these the legendary Stubblefield coils we are talking about? Great...
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We have researched Mr. Stubblefield very thoroughly and only saw one mention of the story you are claiming to be true about the pitchblende. This story does not fit the facts at all. We all have serious doubts as to if there is any truth at all to this rumor.
Fact:
Stubblefield went on a tour with his cells to Philly, NY and DC. If he needed uranium ore for his devices to work, how did they work at all of his demonstrations on the road? He has gone down in history for making the first ship to shore phone call from a boat on the Potomac river. Did he fill the river up with pitchblende?
It just does not fit the facts and the rest of the history. Many feel it was a story made up in an attempt to discredit him. His son died of a fever, a very common ailment in those days.
Bill
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I go away for 2 days and you all let a comment from Omnibus "trick" you into wasting your time discussing the stealing of energy from radio stations >:( when you should be testing Mr. Stubblefield's coil to prove where it gets its power and how it gets its power.
What a shame. :'(
DonL
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But Guys, on a more serious note - I understood that Omnibus' initial objection to this experiment which he regards as 'trivial' is because the galvanic action is enabled with the addition of water which is seen as an electrolyte. Therefore we are using a battery principle rather than free energy. If we could just put this to bed - for once and for all. Water is ABSOLUTELY NOT REQUIRED. Here's the proof.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2a3uTU0fgc&feature=related
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
Be careful not to mix LaserSabers 2 different coils.
One has iron core and bare steel & insulated copper wire wrapped around it.
This other one has carbon core and magnesium wrapped around it.
These could prove to be getting the electricity from totally different sources and processes.
And where is Omnibus' experiments?
Why is Omnibus demanding everyone else to prove/disprove his ideas/thoughts.
DonL
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I go away for 2 days and you all let a comment from Omnibus "trick" you into wasting your time discussing the stealing of energy from radio stations >:( when you should be testing Mr. Stubblefield's coil to prove where it gets its power and how it gets its power.
What a shame. :'(
DonL
Good point Don. If you let these clowns derail the thread by talking to them you only have yourselves to blame. They're full of crap. Don't let them suck you in. Don't take the bait. Stick to the topic.
Ted
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Are you not interested where that power could come from ???
YES. Very interested. WHAT is your point? I don't think that justifies you DEMANDING further tests to satisfy your curiosity. Lasersaber does NOT claim OU. How exactly would you enjoy me DEMANDING that you conduct these tests and give us the results? That's exactly the same thing. What's lacking is a certain want of courtesy. Just revisit your posts. The implication is that it is IRRESPONSIBLE to suggest that there's anything significant in these tests - this in support of Omnibus who described the tests as TRIVIAL. Here is your actual quote.
I am highly assuming that the same happens with the proposed NS coils of lasersabre. If he claims, that it isn't the case, and his power comes from somewhere else, it is his job, to prove it or at least try to eliminate the most disturbing factors. Understood?
Not only are you somewhat liberal in your assumptions but it's ALARMING to see that you find any need at all to eliminate what you find as 'the most disturbing factors.' as you put it. So. It is absolutely NOT understandable NOR understood. Laser has construed NOTHING. You, on the contrary have construed EVERYTHING.
What good example?
I am referring to the good example set by Laser, of experimenting and then reporting on the experimental results. May we impose on you to do the same? Until you've replicated that test I strongly recommend that you withhold ALL your negative criticisms. I think that would be more in the interest of good research disciplines than ASSUMING explanations especially in view of the fact that your explanations are shown to be spurious.
If I find out the very first time in my life how a galvanic cell works and then start a topic on that, is this a good example? No.
On the contrary. If I ever found out about anything at all that promoted clean green energy and then did not do my damnedest to understand it - then indeed - you may criticise me. And I have NEVER questioned the galvanic effect. I have questioned anyone's right to use the term in conjunction with a 'battery supply energy source' when there's a clear want of evidence that any electrolytic process is taking place anywhere at all. The galvanic effect is associated here with a battery effect. I sincerely believe that it is more in the nature of a generative effect and will hold to that opinion until I hear from a chemist that this is wrong.
If I find out the very first time in my life that I can pick up some voltage when putting a cable into the air and then start a topic on it, is this a good example? No.
It certainly is NOT the first time in my life that I find I can pick up voltage by putting a cable in the air. Where exactly do you construe this ASSUMPTION?
We are talking about commonly known things in electricity.
NOT TRUE. I have now had the good fortune to speak to more than a few EXPERTS and only one of them had heard of a Nathan Stubblefield Battery.
And even if both of these examples are not well known by the individual one can easily apply this knowledge yourself with a simple google search.
Which is EXACTLY what I did. Check my reference. And the result of that search shows me that Omnibus' and your own definition of battery is somewhat FLAWED.
And that's why I didn't start a topic a year ago about "collecting free energy from the air".
No-one on this thread has EVER talked about getting free energy from the air. You diminish the level of interest and knowledge here by this association. And that much is self-evidently your objective.
This would have been a joke, but you are talking about such a thing as if it's the "killa device from outa space".
NOT TRUE. I have NEVER claimed to get voltage from thin air. Therefore are your snide associations absolutely NOT appropriate. What I think is a 'killa device from outa space' as you so crassly put it, is the simple fact that laser is teaching us the innate properties in the galvanic effect that elevate it to a generative effect. That IS interesting.
If both of the above examples aren't the case, then he needs to prove it, as I said before. Unless this happens, there is absolutely nothing special to it, because it's most likely a power source from the grid.
Since neither examples are the case then Laser need prove NOTHING.
And - nothwithstanding the alarming association of the 'sicknesses' in the Stubblefield family - there is NOTHING harmful in the use of copper in conjunction with iron. Else the entire human population in the first world and the most of us in the second and third world - would have learned of this before now.
Rosemary
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But as it is now even the electric distribution boards in lasersabres room can easily cause the coils to collect hundreds (!) of milliVolts. I can do this myself with a simple wire anytime,
Entirely true. Turning the power off will tell you how much its adding. Then add any major outside external fields.
did you know Stubblefields family got sick because the earth /water was contaminated?
Not the whole family. Even stubblefield himself at the end was emaciated but even that is not 100% it was caused from his work. Personally I think it was but no one knows for sure.
Maybe his earth coils got their power from something in the ground
You betcha. Stubblefield looked for hot spots of telluric currents. That was documented by Ns himself. The coil will not work in the same exact manner externally. You will see higher current flows in the ground because of its materiel makeup and ability as a conductor. Air is not a good conductor but does have an electrostatic potential of 100 v per vertical meter.
If this coil externally will act like a standard induction coil,then a variable speed motor on the simple magnetic rotor might tell us something. The more abrupt the make or break,on & off times,the more intense the magnetic field lines on the primary. I would think that would give us more current on the secondary. Timing will vary depending on the number of turns and core size. There will be an optimum rpm or cycle for any make&break on any given coil.
To avoid any confusion on my part for some. The copper and iron wires around the core are of equal length. That is considered 1 or unity. That is the primary. The copper coil wound on top of that is the secondary. I assume most of you address it in this manner.
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i wonder if the rate at which the atmospheric electrolyte enters the coil is proportional to its mass. if one were to create a giant coil, would the mass be too large for that atmospheric fluid to replenish the charge of the coil while its running, or would its larger output cause the coil to breakdown faster because its not gathering electrolyte as fast as it would have with the small coil, being that it atmospherically drew alot less.
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i wonder if the rate at which the atmospheric electrolyte enters the coil is proportional to its mass. if one were to create a giant coil, would the mass be too large for that atmospheric fluid to replenish the charge of the coil while its running, or would its larger output cause the coil to breakdown faster because its not gathering electrolyte as fast as it would have with the small coil, being that it atmospherically drew alot less.
Hello Magneticitist - and welcome to the discussion. I think that the question here is the guage of those windings. If a bigger coil also comprised a proportionately thicker windings then the conditions are still the same. But we do not yet know the upper limit of the required coils to optimise the effect. Good point.
Regards,
Rosemary
BTW - I am not sure what you're referring to as an atmospheric electrolyte. Nor are we entirely certain how much the atmosphere is required to generate the effect. It seems that this has been replicated by another member or by someone outside this forum. Not sure. In any event, I'll try and find the link again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XihmGdDpB2o
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My ultimate NS coil mentioned in the other topic a while back would be the size of a 55 gallon drum using like 8 gauge wire or larger.
I have obviously not built one yet as I have had neither the time nor the money but....I have not given up on the idea.
Bill
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Good point Don. If you let these clowns derail the thread by talking to them you only have yourselves to blame. They're full of crap. Don't let them suck you in. Don't take the bait. Stick to the topic.
Ted
Ted - Sorry. You're right. I'll try and remember. I'm just so sorry that they can be so effective. My hackles rise - every time.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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To avoid any confusion on my part for some. The copper and iron wires around the core are of equal length. That is considered 1 or unity. That is the primary. The copper coil wound on top of that is the secondary. I assume most of you address it in this manner.
Good point to reference.
My bare gal. steel wire and enamel insulated copper wire are of the exact same length and turns.
The gal. bare steel wire is 20 awg and the enamel insulated copper wire is 18 awg.
DonL
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A note about this device running on "RF", or even induced house current.
If this were an RF induced device, the voltage potential would be between one end of the coil winding and the other, not between the two conductors AT THE SAME END.
I want to know how two conductors, running side by side, in very close proximity can develop two separate electrical potentials from the same EM field? Two vertical antennas of the same height, in the same location, will develop the same voltage potentials with the same polarity, across their length. One will not develop the opposite polarity at the same end.
This is the same with these parallel conductors. If they are acting as antennas for any type of EMF, then the voltages along their lengths will be virtually identical. Even if you have a diode developed by the oxides, there is no differential in potential between the two conductors and therefore no conduction will occur across the diode.
The RF theory is a straw man. Don't pay any attention to it. If you want further clarification on this subject, please PM me so we don't have to waste any more thread space on it.
Cheers,
Ted
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A note about this device running on "RF", or even induced house current.
If this were an RF induced device, the voltage potential would be between one end of the coil winding and the other, not between the two conductors AT THE SAME END.
I want to know how two conductors, running side by side, in very close proximity can develop two separate electrical potentials from the same EM field? Two vertical antennas of the same height, in the same location, will develop the same voltage potentials with the same polarity, across their length. One will not develop the opposite polarity at the same end.
This is the same with these parallel conductors. If they are acting as antennas for any type of EMF, then the voltages along their lengths will be virtually identical. Even if you have a diode developed by the oxides, there is no differential in potential between the two conductors and therefore no conduction will occur across the diode.
The RF theory is a straw man. Don't pay any attention to it. If you want further clarification on this subject, please PM me so we don't have to waste any more thread space on it.
Cheers,
Ted
Of course. THANK YOU TED. A really good point.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
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I got a new compass.
Magnetic response:
Dry: moves the compass needle when I pass the compass by each end.
One end likes North and the other end likes South as expected.
Even after I short the steel & copper wire together to 0mV (it moves up to at least 1mV after I remove the short) there is still the same magnetic pull on the compass.
Cheap-o Faraday cage - I wrapped a cardboard box with aluminum foil with my coil inside. I shorted the wire until there were 0mV and disconnected my digital meter for 2 minutes. Upon reconnecting my digital meter it read over 2mV. Nothing connected to the wires and coil was in the Faraday cage. Repeated this 2 times more with similar results.
Also I did not move anything around the Faraday box. I sat still. See next post for why I wrote this.
DonL
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@dllabarre
most likely your copper iron pair has developed a charge.
if your are able - could you please see if you can squeeze your coil together a bit?
stubblefield says compressed in his patent. MK1's brought this up too.
i don't think it's for purely galvanic reasons.
just curious if this changes your voltage readings.
thanks.
nap
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Good point Don. If you let these clowns derail the thread by talking to them you only have yourselves to blame. They're full of crap. Don't let them suck you in. Don't take the bait. Stick to the topic.
Ted
You are the clown and those like you who are derailing the genuine discussions and competent attempts to achieve free energy, as already explained. Many of us have seen a lot of wasted efforts here due to incompetence and even ill intent so it's time for someone to speak out. It's not for me or those who see the flaws to waste time in doing useless experiments. It's for the person having the audacity to present something trivial to do some more work and honestly concede his mistake. He was told what to explore by more than one person here (although he should have known it to begin with).
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NOT TRUE. I am more than willing to report on failed experiments. And I've seen many threads where experimenters own up to failed tests. I personally think failed tests are as important as any other - because they're scientifically relevant and required for progress.
That's a good sign then. I am eagerly awaiting to see some youtube videos from the experimenters here on this thread.
;)
J.
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Nice, the foil should be a good basic shield for RF, up to a point.
I feel foolish now, but I re-played the #5 video, and noted that he suggested "Playing" with the LED to get correct polarity. If this was standard induction, wouldn't there be actual AC coming out of the coil?
Or am I being stupid, seeing that the "Motor" all have the same pole facing out, there is no true polarity reversal. I would have assumed that as the field increased, the "Current" would be direction #1, and as it decreased, it would be in the other direction, even with the basic one-way bias of this design.
Maybe I'm reading too much into his words, and it worked, either way?
I like to hear a comment or two, if anyone has ideas about this. This should be simple induction, but that would tend to say otherwise...
Even excluding the motor, and assuming DC applied to the "Primary", this would still produce both positive and negative flows. Any Ideas?
Hello Loner,
Good points. All windings on the core are either clockwise or anticlockwise. That never varies - in line with standard coils. Presumably, therefore during the 'on' time, so to speak the voltage will reverse compared to the 'off' time - or to the other cycle. If one assumes that the voltage is first positive then it may repel the rotor. If it already has a given velocity in a certain direction then the second half of the cycle possibly attracts those same magnets moving the rotor in the same direction as the spin has already been established.
Possibly?
Regarding whether or not it's ac - I have no idea. My own intention is to see if the rotor can also generate a current in a separate copper wire - possibly wound as a coil - just to see if it can, indeed, act as a generator. If it does then it will depend on the winding of that coil to determine whether it's AC or DC. Hopefully we'll have the choice. And frankly I'd love to be in the happy position to choose. LOL
Regards,
Rosemary
edited. I had to delete a whole para related to the push/pull as I realised it was entirely wrong. I need to think this through again - especially in the way I intend to do my own rig.
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@Rosemary, i suppose by atmospheric electrolyte i mean any and all of the EM, RF, ELF, etc that may be affecting the coil.
when i see a battery "ghost charge" voltage back up i dont link that to stressing of the plates. nor do i say its the plates stressing when my electrolytic caps charge themselves up to around 5V on their own.
to me this is the Earth's radiant energy doing this.. when using a Joule Thief with very low switching sensitivity it can be seen better, as the battery drops below switching voltage the LED will start to blink, because the atmosphere is brining its voltage back up automatically, until switching V is hit again and the cycle repeats. the LED will blink until the rate at which the atmospheric intake is not enough to overcome the low voltage in the battery and sustain a steady oscillation.
lets say i have a capacitor that sits on a table, and every 5 or ten minutes it has built up enough charge to turn a small DC motor for about one second.
lets say i put 50 of these capacitors in a bank and had them running and idling all at different times. it could be possible for me to time their discharges just right, so the small DC motor turns almost consistently, just from the electrolyte within them atmospherically charging.
i believe the stubblefield is similar, but i do not know if i were to create a super large electrolytic cap, would it gather the same type of charge but proportionally larger? or would it still receive the same amount of charge as the smaller one. likewise with the stubblefield. however i believe since the Earth itself is so large an increase in the mass of our coil would also increase its reception.
-
Stubblefield always said that his coils were powered by the earth. Guess who came to see at least one of his demonstrations? Tesla. We know that he and Tesla had been in communications but I don't think we know to what extent. (All this was covered on the earth battery topic so I won't go into more detail here)
We also know that when he submitted his patent application, it was not called a battery at all. In order to get his patent granted, he had to add the word Battery to get this approved by the examiners who did not understand how this could work if it was not a battery. Stubblefield was not happy with this but he did it to get it approved.
Bill
-
Hi everybody,
Wow, I never thought this thread would take off so fast. I will try to answer some of the questions that have been posted and share a few thoughts.
1. Some have seen my magnesium air batteries videos. I would consider these a purely galvanic battery. You build them with the goal of trying to achieve as much voltage and amperage as possible. They can last a very long time when run as air batteries without using the salt water. With the salt water they only last a month or so. They have no electromagnetic effect so I do not consider them to be like the NS coil at all.
2. When building and testing a NS coil keep in mind that you are testing for the electromagnetic effect, not voltage. I do not really care anymore what the voltage of the coil is at. I had a guy come by with a scope and check the voltage of my coil in the live video stream while it was running. It tested out at 50 millivolts with a back EMF spike of 200 millivolts. I am hesitant to post these values as they were taken very quickly and should be taken again to reconfirm.
3. The mini coils are a side project that I did to see how a multiple coil arrangement would work. I did not feel like building large coils, if the arrangement would not work well. I did not expect them to work on their own at all because they were so small. I was amazed when I detected some slight electromagnetic effects on my compass. They ran really well when I first made and wet them. Then I salted them and they completely died, as I expected they would. Since then they have been showing some signs of coming back to life. They ran for a good 8 hours or so the other day. There is a slight possibility that I will get them working in a continuously running mode if I can get all the variables set correctly - rotor size, coil distance, reed switch placements, weight of the rotor, and iron core length, to name a few. I am confident that I can build a large multiple coil arrangement that will work very well and do plan on building it in the future. The coils will be the same size as the coil in my live video stream or larger.
4. I have built and tested way more NS coils then you could imagine. Creating a working coil is not easy at all. There are a ton of variables that have to be perfect. If you follow my video build clips you should be able to do it.
5. Based upon my success I am inspired and have been testing enamel covered wire again. In the past I have seen some pretty interesting results using plastic covered speaker wire with a wire of another type such as iron or aluminum. Back then, I made the mistake of testing for voltage instead of testing it with a rotor and two reed switches. The real break through for me was when I set my voltmeter aside and started just trying to get my rotor turning. That is when I discovered the special effects that happen when using two reed switches. Now that I have this extra knowledge, gained by real world experience, I am going back and doing some pretty interesting tests.
-
@dllabarre
most likely your copper iron pair has developed a charge.
if your are able - could you please see if you can squeeze your coil together a bit?
stubblefield says compressed in his patent. MK1's brought this up too.
nap
What do you mean "squeeze my coil"?
The wires are wrapped very tight to each other (touching) and the wires are wrapped very tight to the core.
DonL
-
I got a new compass.
Magnetic response:
Dry: moves the compass needle when I pass the compass by each end.
One end likes North and the other end likes South as expected.
Even after I short the steel & copper wire together to 0mV (it moves up to at least 1mV after I remove the short) there is still the same magnetic pull on the compass.
Cheap-o Faraday cage - I wrapped a cardboard box with aluminum foil with my coil inside. I shorted the wire until there were 0mV and disconnected my digital meter for 2 minutes. Upon reconnecting my digital meter it read over 2mV. Nothing connected to the wires and coil was in the Faraday cage. Repeated this 2 times more with similar results.
Also I did not move anything around the Faraday box. I sat still. See next post for why I wrote this.
DonL
Thanks for the update here Don. Love to know the answer to this.
Also I did not move anything around the Faraday box. I sat still. See next post for why I wrote this.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
-
The real break through for me was when I set my voltmeter aside and started just trying to get my rotor turning. That is when I discovered the special effects that happen when using two reed switches. Now that I have this extra knowledge, gained by real world experience, I am going back and doing some pretty interesting tests.
I will focus testing on the magnetic effect as well.
With my coil in a Faraday cage it still turns the compass the same as it did before I put it in the Faraday cage. This is a dry coil, shorted the steel and copper wire, single layer, bare Ga. steel wire and enamel insulated copper wire, 73 turns wound like in LaserSaber videos except only 1 layer.
DonL
-
Thanks for the update here Don. Love to know the answer to this.
Also I did not move anything around the Faraday box. I sat still. See next post for why I wrote this.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
This is another reason why I'm focusing on testing the magnetic properties of my coil.
I would see the digital meter move from 10mV to 100mV when connected to my coil by just getting up from my chair and walking past the coil.
This was before and after placing the coil in the Faraday cage.
Also seen similar effects with just waving my hand past the end of the coil.
After shorting my coil for 30 mins the effect diminished so I have to do more testing.
It could have been just an anomaly of using digital meters.
Once I get a sensitive analog meter I will test this again.
But the compass would respond to the coil in all conditions, in and out of the Faraday cage, even when the meter read 1-2mV. This is why I want to focus on the magnetic properties.
DonL
-
If you have disks on each end of your core see if by applying pressure at each end inward
will change your voltage readings. Stubblefield had the advantage of using a bolt for the core
with a nut on the end. He could compress the iron/copper coil assembly by tightening his
bolt.
We know this should have an effect on the capacitance of the assembly. I'm looking into
these effects and how magneto restriction plays a role during polarity reversals.
A little over 2 minutes into lasersaber's '48 days' video he explains how polarity reversals
seem to help with effects: http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#p/a/u/2/kbaub2kkkpA (http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#p/a/u/2/kbaub2kkkpA)
Take a look at Lidmotor's 'scope shot' video he did for MK1.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/21/MGwylnFvfZo (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/21/MGwylnFvfZo)
We see that by adding charge to the coil a magnetic bias is set up to take advantage of
the polarity flipping characteristics.
Please take a look at a Wiegand wire and compare it to the Stubblefield assembly. When
the soft core polarity flips and causes the iron wire polarity flips an effect occurs that
can be picked up. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg255762#msg255762 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg255762#msg255762)
Although adding galvanic approaches adds to more interesting effects using insulated wire
isolates the galvanic effects and we can study and test other effects more clearly.
For example: During polarity flipping of both core and the helically wrapped iron wire magneto
restriction events occur applying a sharp change in mechanical pressure on the copper wire
sandwiched between the iron wraps. These are some of the effects I'm looking into.
Take care.
nap
-
While this field shrinks, the field is passing by the secondary in the opposite direction, and I would think that the voltage measured at the same point would be -1 Volt, relative to the other end, again.
Im assuming Inductive kickback or Voltage spikes like in a relay. When the switch is closed current is flowing in the copper and there is a magnetic field around the copper. When the switch opens the coppers magnetic field is collapsing inducing a voltage spike of reverse polarity. This voltage spike is much higher than the source voltage. If this coil works in a similar manner then that would account for the iron core not being permanently magnetized in one direction. Once again the windings are equal or unity and I dont consider the iron wire as a secondary in this coil. Iron conducts current but not to the extent of copper,but its magnetic field is much more intense.
-
If you have disks on each end of your core see if by applying pressure at each end inward
will change your voltage readings. Stubblefield had the advantage of using a bolt for the core
with a nut on the end. He could compress the iron/copper coil assembly by tightening his
bolt.
nap
Sorry... :(
I don't have disks on the ends of my coil because I only wound one layer.
I'm testing the differences between bare steel wire with enamel insulated copper wire vs bare steel wire with cotton insulated copper wire.
If I can use enamel insulated copper wire with the same results as cotton insulated copper wire then these coils can be made a lot less expensive.
DonL
-
I would see the digital meter move from 10mV to 100mV when connected to my coil by just getting up from my chair and walking past the coil.
This was before and after placing the coil in the Faraday cage.
Also seen similar effects with just waving my hand past the end of the coil.
Im thinking this is from the electrostatic potential of the air as well as any magnetic field lines coming off the coil and any house wiring that might add to it. You are moving in a magnetic field possibly changing the field to an extent. If the coil is sitting on a wood table place your palms on it and apply pressure. Put your hands at different distances from the coil and see if it changes. Do this with your electric panel both on and totally off and take measurements to see the difference. I would be most interested in the readings of both with and without the Faraday. A little time consuming but the readings might be worth it.
-
I am curious, I heard mention of using alluminum wire instead of iron wire and getting better resaults, can anyone verify that?..I am purchasing materials to build a coil and would like to know which to order. thx
-
@lasersaber
Dont feel bad because it seems that nobody saw what you wrote here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg256892#msg256892
People are just eager to replicate.
Jesus
-
To Rosie.....you said to use a bifilar winding ,so have others ........but my understanding of a bifilar coil is to... wind two wires parallel....when finished connect the end of one wire to the begginning of the other.......leaving you with one start and one end...........lasersaber just winds copper and steal parallel.......two starts ...two ends.......am I reading things right or am I missing something ...........thanx shylo
-
To Rosie.....you said to use a bifilar winding ,so have others ........but my understanding of a bifilar coil is to... wind two wires parallel....when finished connect the end of one wire to the begginning of the other.......leaving you with one start and one end...........lasersaber just winds copper and steal parallel.......two starts ...two ends.......am I reading things right or am I missing something ...........thanx shylo
There are 4 ends on a Stubblefield coil. It is wound bifilar but the ends are all open. How these are later connected varies but see Laser's videos to see how he connected his. According to the patent, you end up with two 10's and a 5 and a 6.
Bill
-
I am curious, I heard mention of using alluminum wire instead of iron wire and getting better resaults, can anyone verify that?..I am purchasing materials to build a coil and would like to know which to order. thx
Hi McGiver30
I like your thinking, I was also thinking about using iron and copper washers to make assembly easier,as I am keen to make a 1 W of power device, finding out the best methods of construction
is very important.= (Power out) (Cost of materials) (Duration of device)
cat
-
Hi Bill thanx for the reply..........my mistake I just assumed that until the connections were made ...they were just two parallel wires.......will multiple strand copper wire work in place of single strand unenameled..........as long as its' close to the same guage as the steal wire..........shylo
-
Im thinking this is from the electrostatic potential of the air as well as any magnetic field lines coming off the coil and any house wiring that might add to it. You are moving in a magnetic field possibly changing the field to an extent. If the coil is sitting on a wood table place your palms on it and apply pressure. Put your hands at different distances from the coil and see if it changes. Do this with your electric panel both on and totally off and take measurements to see the difference. I would be most interested in the readings of both with and without the Faraday. A little time consuming but the readings might be worth it.
I can't turn off all the power to this 2 family house so I went outside, 200 feet from any building, 300 feet from any MAINS power lines and no wiring underground (farm field).
The coil was dead 0mV, when i took it outside of the house still in the cage. The voltage didn't change when I was moving it however it still showed some magnetic attraction to my compass.
I put the coil in a glass of water and it went to .840V.
I took it out and after 2 minutes it was down to .540V.
I put it in the cage when it was .535V
The magnetic attraction was stronger when dry then when I first took the coil out of the glass of water.
After a few minutes of being in the cage the magnetic attraction was stronger then when it was dry.
I took it all inside...
After it was long enough for the wires to dry but the cotton insulation on the core was real wet, it measured .457V and a lot of magnetic attraction to the compass.
The coil has been in my office drying for over 30 minutes and it reads .408V with the same magnetic attraction.
I don't think I've mentioned before, the magnetic attraction is only at the 2 ends of the coil and not on the sides.
When I touch the coil on the sides nothing happens to voltage. Even if I grab it with my fingers wrapped around it.
But if I touch the core on the end where I ended the windings with my finger the volts go up an additional .45-.50V. Also if I touch a copper wire on that end where my windings ended the same thing happens BUT if I touch ANY steel wire nothing happens.
If I touch a wire or the core on the end where my windings began nothing happens.
Now to continue with my testings.....
DonL
-
Hi McGiver30
I like your thinking, I was also thinking about using iron and copper washers to make assembly easier,as I am keen to make a 1 W of power device, finding out the best methods of construction
is very important.= (Power out) (Cost of materials) (Duration of device)
cat
So far I believe the bare copper has to be insulated from the bare iron (steel).
So you'd have to add an insulation between the washers.
-
Hi everybody,
Wow, I never thought this thread would take off so fast. I will try to answer some of the questions that have been posted and share a few thoughts.
1. Some have seen my magnesium air batteries videos. I would consider these a purely galvanic battery. You build them with the goal of trying to achieve as much voltage and amperage as possible. They can last a very long time when run as air batteries without using the salt water. With the salt water they only last a month or so. They have no electromagnetic effect so I do not consider them to be like the NS coil at all.
2. When building and testing a NS coil keep in mind that you are testing for the electromagnetic effect, not voltage. I do not really care anymore what the voltage of the coil is at. I had a guy come by with a scope and check the voltage of my coil in the live video stream while it was running. It tested out at 50 millivolts with a back EMF spike of 200 millivolts. I am hesitant to post these values as they were taken very quickly and should be taken again to reconfirm.
3. The mini coils are a side project that I did to see how a multiple coil arrangement would work. I did not feel like building large coils, if the arrangement would not work well. I did not expect them to work on their own at all because they were so small. I was amazed when I detected some slight electromagnetic effects on my compass. They ran really well when I first made and wet them. Then I salted them and they completely died, as I expected they would. Since then they have been showing some signs of coming back to life. They ran for a good 8 hours or so the other day. There is a slight possibility that I will get them working in a continuously running mode if I can get all the variables set correctly - rotor size, coil distance, reed switch placements, weight of the rotor, and iron core length, to name a few. I am confident that I can build a large multiple coil arrangement that will work very well and do plan on building it in the future. The coils will be the same size as the coil in my live video stream or larger.
4. I have built and tested way more NS coils then you could imagine. Creating a working coil is not easy at all. There are a ton of variables that have to be perfect. If you follow my video build clips you should be able to do it.
5. Based upon my success I am inspired and have been testing enamel covered wire again. In the past I have seen some pretty interesting results using plastic covered speaker wire with a wire of another type such as iron or aluminum. Back then, I made the mistake of testing for voltage instead of testing it with a rotor and two reed switches. The real break through for me was when I set my voltmeter aside and started just trying to get my rotor turning. That is when I discovered the special effects that happen when using two reed switches. Now that I have this extra knowledge, gained by real world experience, I am going back and doing some pretty interesting tests.
I cannot see how I missed this. Hello Lasersaber. I'm simply posting this here to get it back on the page.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
-
1. Some have seen my magnesium air batteries videos. I would consider these a purely galvanic battery. You build them with the goal of trying to achieve as much voltage and amperage as possible. They can last a very long time when run as air batteries without using the salt water. With the salt water they only last a month or so. They have no electromagnetic effect so I do not consider them to be like the NS coil at all.
Thanks for explaining this. But what do you mean by a long time? Does this oxidise in the air - or is it coated with something? Abject apologies if my questions are rather elementary.
2. When building and testing a NS coil keep in mind that you are testing for the electromagnetic effect, not voltage. I do not really care anymore what the voltage of the coil is at. I had a guy come by with a scope and check the voltage of my coil in the live video stream while it was running. It tested out at 50 millivolts with a back EMF spike of 200 millivolts. I am hesitant to post these values as they were taken very quickly and should be taken again to reconfirm.
I did not realise you've got a live video stream running. Please give us a link.
3. The mini coils are a side project that I did to see how a multiple coil arrangement would work. I did not feel like building large coils, if the arrangement would not work well. I did not expect them to work on their own at all because they were so small. I was amazed when I detected some slight electromagnetic effects on my compass. They ran really well when I first made and wet them. Then I salted them and they completely died, as I expected they would. Since then they have been showing some signs of coming back to life. They ran for a good 8 hours or so the other day. There is a slight possibility that I will get them working in a continuously running mode if I can get all the variables set correctly - rotor size, coil distance, reed switch placements, weight of the rotor, and iron core length, to name a few. I am confident that I can build a large multiple coil arrangement that will work very well and do plan on building it in the future. The coils will be the same size as the coil in my live video stream or larger.
I see where you say that you need to 'get all the variables set correctly - rotor size, coil distance, reed switch placements, weight of the rotor, and iron core length, to name a few'. It strikes me that it's more an art form than a science at this stage.
5. Based upon my success I am inspired and have been testing enamel covered wire again. In the past I have seen some pretty interesting results using plastic covered speaker wire with a wire of another type such as iron or aluminum. Back then, I made the mistake of testing for voltage instead of testing it with a rotor and two reed switches. The real break through for me was when I set my voltmeter aside and started just trying to get my rotor turning. That is when I discovered the special effects that happen when using two reed switches. Now that I have this extra knowledge, gained by real world experience, I am going back and doing some pretty interesting tests.
Very interesting indeed. It strikes me that there's a huge learning curve here. I think that you and Don are doing the right thing by establishing each and every result against each and every parameter - as you move along.
Laser, may I thank you - publicly and personally - for giving us such a fascinating device to look at. And may I also compliment you on your exceptional experimental aptitudes. It's interesting to see how subtle are the requirements to make it all work. And so many questions - a delicious combination.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
-
when i see a battery "ghost charge" voltage back up i dont link that to stressing of the plates. nor do i say its the plates stressing when my electrolytic caps charge themselves up to around 5V on their own.
I never knew this. Does a cap measure a voltage - in the same way as a transistor?
to me this is the Earth's radiant energy doing this.. when using a Joule Thief with very low switching sensitivity it can be seen better, as the battery drops below switching voltage the LED will start to blink, because the atmosphere is brining its voltage back up automatically, until switching V is hit again and the cycle repeats. the LED will blink until the rate at which the atmospheric intake is not enough to overcome the low voltage in the battery and sustain a steady oscillation.
I get it. You're attributing the lowering of the voltage to the discharge in the LED - but the sustained discharge requires some interaction with the atmosphere? aether? I wonder if it could be that the lowering voltage is the discharge of that energy through the LED. Just a thought. But I know nothing of the subtleties of the Joule Thief builds. I'd like to give this more thought.
lets say i have a capacitor that sits on a table, and every 5 or ten minutes it has built up enough charge to turn a small DC motor for about one second. lets say i put 50 of these capacitors in a bank and had them running and idling all at different times. it could be possible for me to time their discharges just right, so the small DC motor turns almost consistently, just from the electrolyte within them atmospherically charging.
I get it. Very interesting M'itist.
i believe the stubblefield is similar, but i do not know if i were to create a super large electrolytic cap, would it gather the same type of charge but proportionally larger? or would it still receive the same amount of charge as the smaller one. likewise with the stubblefield. however i believe since the Earth itself is so large an increase in the mass of our coil would also increase its reception.
If the cap has a meaurable potential difference - then I'm inclined to agree.
Very nice Magneticitist. It'll certainly be an interesting variation if you're planning to do these tests. But I do think it needs to be tested against a moving rotor - or we'll be back to the interminable requirements for measurable proof. Where this combination of evidence is so valuable to the cause, so to speak - is precisely because the rotor is coaxed to turn without the input of any 'evident' extraneous energy source. I know my own tests were snarled by this debate. And here's an elegant rig that goes to the heart of the matter with a simplicity that entirely captivates me.
Regards,
Rosemary
-
Stubblefield...
We also know that when he submitted his patent application, it was not called a battery at all. In order to get his patent granted, he had to add the word Battery to get this approved by the examiners who did not understand how this could work if it was not a battery. Stubblefield was not happy with this but he did it to get it approved.
Bill
Golly Pirate. How interesting is that? I wonder if he had called it a 'generator' if it wouldn't perhaps have 'generated' ;D more interest. It's not suprising that I've never heard of Nathan Subblefield - as my schooling in science is rather skimpy. But his name seems to be entirely omitted from standard curriculae and some of the experts I've spoken to are entirely unaware of this patent of his or this technology drive. It seems he's like Tesla - and Leedskalnin. They're the true geniuses that just operated below the radar. Delighted to see this being revitalised and back in focus - and this is precisely the value of these forums and this seemingly endless talent on these forums. So nice.
Kindest as ever,
Rosie
-
If you have disks on each end of your core see if by applying pressure at each end inward
will change your voltage readings. Stubblefield had the advantage of using a bolt for the core
with a nut on the end. He could compress the iron/copper coil assembly by tightening his
bolt.
We know this should have an effect on the capacitance of the assembly. I'm looking into
these effects and how magneto restriction plays a role during polarity reversals.
A little over 2 minutes into lasersaber's '48 days' video he explains how polarity reversals
seem to help with effects: http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#p/a/u/2/kbaub2kkkpA (http://www.youtube.com/user/lasersaber#p/a/u/2/kbaub2kkkpA)
Take a look at Lidmotor's 'scope shot' video he did for MK1.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/21/MGwylnFvfZo (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/21/MGwylnFvfZo)
We see that by adding charge to the coil a magnetic bias is set up to take advantage of
the polarity flipping characteristics.
Please take a look at a Wiegand wire and compare it to the Stubblefield assembly. When
the soft core polarity flips and causes the iron wire polarity flips an effect occurs that
can be picked up. http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg255762#msg255762 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3500.msg255762#msg255762)
Although adding galvanic approaches adds to more interesting effects using insulated wire
isolates the galvanic effects and we can study and test other effects more clearly.
For example: During polarity flipping of both core and the helically wrapped iron wire magneto
restriction events occur applying a sharp change in mechanical pressure on the copper wire
sandwiched between the iron wraps. These are some of the effects I'm looking into.
Take care.
nap
Thanks very much for this post Slapper. Very astute observations. I'll try that rig with stripped wire - if I can find the patience to strip all that copper. At least we'll have one build where the metals actually touch. If it doesn't work I'll rewind. I'm anxious to see what happens when there's absolute proximity between the wires.
And DonL - many thanks INDEED for all your careful reporting. I get it that the magnetic effect seems to be independent of the measured potential difference. This is precisely what Laser's been pointing to. Seems that empirical values is all we'll be able to look at - at this early stage.
Regards
Rosemary
-
Hi Bill thanx for the reply..........my mistake I just assumed that until the connections were made ...they were just two parallel wires.......will multiple strand copper wire work in place of single strand unenameled..........as long as its' close to the same guage as the steal wire..........shylo
I have only used solid copper wire as per the patent but, this is what experiments are for, right? Who knows, the same diameter stranded wire MAY actually be better...or not as good. Only one way to find out.
If stranded does work, it will be another step closer to easier/cheaper replications.
Bill
-
Loner, Guys, I wonder if I may just point to something that sort of goes to my interests in this rig. I'm sure you all know about the Casimir effect. It's the proven evidence that when you put two metals together - then they 'stick' - with a force that indicates a complete material bonding. It's only been shown on a very small scale. I've long proposed that this is due to magnetic fields inside the material of conductive/inductive material that are able to re-arrange their spins. Something outside the atom - but that holds the atoms bound - inside all three dimensional structures. In paramagnetic and diamagnetic material - the proposal is that these can alter their 'justification'. This would give them the same properties as a magnetic field - so, by deduction, they may then be magnetic fields.
In as much as these juxtaposed materials seem to be invariably responding with a magnetic moment - I wonder if this may be the 'root cause'. The thing is this. It would then still be very much a property of the aether - provided only that these fields are everywhere. This because it's proposed that the aether is everywhere. The only difference being that the aether itself may simply be the global - universal - distribution of magnetic fields. Just a thought. That way - when we find potential difference it may be the result of some 'imbalanced' condition of those binding fields inside that material. At least, this way - there may be some material explanation for the continued interaction of the wires with a compas - as Don is showing us - regardless of the wet/dry state of the coil.
By the way. The proposal is that these fields hold atoms bound inside crystalline or three dimensional structures. In other words if it's got a three dimensional shape then it's got these active little energy fields inside that structure holding it in shape. That, in any event, is my take. And it does seem to be consistent with the evidence.
Regards,
Rosemary
-
@rosemary, i agree about testing that idea on a rotor. i actually got the idea from coming home each day from work and noticing the voltage in some of my electrolytic caps above a few volts.. the day i made the other post i had discharged one into a small dc motor and it turned the rotor. nothing remarkable but it did physically move the rotor. there was a small current there. so i went about my business and came back some time after and tried it again. rotor noticeably turned again. likewise i can do this to run sensitive joule thiefs for a second at a time. i feel like i might be written off if i start to talk too much about some of my theories regarding voltage and current, but i guess i can say i feel a current is always in a capacitance to come degree, it just needs a certain voltage potential to free it.
i cant help but wonder how much energy can be cascaded and discharged from a hypothetical 500+ capacitors that have charged a very small amount each all on their own.
at the same time i believe these caps will not have the same effect if i were to move them away from such a populated area. it is true about the amount of static charge that floats around everywhere. its gathering in all the plastic, paper, wood, rubber... all of that. and coming from everywhere.
u can build a darlington setup with small transistors using 3 or more, and it will oscillate on its own from the static charge that its getting from the room.
mine likes to oscillate always unless totally isolated statically, or has its potential interrupted temporarily by me moving around or something.
all of this static potential that would switch this darlington arrangement is the same energy that is charging the caps i believe, and may be running the stubblefield as well.
cosmicgnarler has a vid showing him on a bike trail underneath power lines holding an led avramenko plug, and the led is lit from the line potential.
but even in the absence of such a potential its safe to say theres a fair amount of waves travelling all across the world.
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@dllabarre
Interesting stuff with the Faraday.
I don't think I've mentioned before, the magnetic attraction is only at the 2 ends of the coil and not on the sides.
That would be normal. Strongest fields are at the poles.
But if I touch the core on the end where I ended the windings with my finger the volts go up an additional .45-.50V
The end you touched was the south pole. When conventional current exits a wire or body its the north pole.
If I touch a wire or the core on the end where my windings began nothing happens.
Like poles repel.
Check out the Bar magnet and solenoid.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/elemag.html
Thanks for the info dllabarre!
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Hi again Magneticitist
Convention has it that 'static charge' is from 'electrons' - and while electrons are the physical proof of this charge - I'm actually proposing that the movement of the electrons is actually caused by 'fields' or magnetic fields - that are proposed to underlie all matter. In effect the energy that we extract from any interaction is the result of these hidden forces. Therefore - in terms of what you're seeing in the 'recharge' of those caps - may be the result of these binding fields re-organishing their potential difference - and by discharging that energy into the rotor or the LED's they establish the preferred balance - and then lose it again once they've discharged through the wire. The principle being that maybe, like all magnetic fields - they move to a condition of 'best balance'. But I'm not proposing that anyone 'buy in' to these suggestions. It's just a thought.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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hi all
intriguing thread! ...regardless of what OnthebUs says! ;)
(and i agree with the earlier post BTW - ignore him until his manners improve & he parks his ego)
here's a few more possibly-related backgrounds, from my own observations and readings:-
- electron tunneling
i've read about the generation of charge separation due to to surface electrons 'tunneling' through a thin layer of insulator/dielectric to escape from a metallic surface, and then being unable to return because they were removed or captured either by air molecules or to another metal beyond the air-gap,
effect increases with heat, plates/sheets of dissimilar metals (few cm^2 area); the test results i read were for aluminium/ copper; effect can still occur with like metals, but reduced intensity; pressure was applied to get an optimum spacing between the metals - effect peaked at some pressure; some effort was made to 'dry-out' the test
sounds familiar? - would be interesting to see if the rigs here can sustain an increased voltage at an elevated temperature for some period - preferably shielded - eg, old electric oven on lowish temp (40-50*C?)
- connection/disconnection of metals
i've noticed that just making or breaking a metallic connection can sometimes cause a measurable voltage spike - could this be happening at the reed relay make/break junction?
- some crystals (eg. Rochelle salt) can be used as a dielectric for increased capacitance
i've read that this material quite strongly exhibits the 'dielectric adsorption' effect - anomalous self-increase of voltage in a capacitor arrangement - thought to be related to previous charge on the cap, but my results show otherwise! could the common salt be adding a slight amount of this effect to whatever else is happening here?
Magneticist (& others?) - you might be interested to read about some of the anomalous capacitor effects which i've recorded in a PDF - see the 'Secret Life of Capacitors' thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9393.msg247816#msg247816
all the best with these experiments - good stuff!
sandy
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@lasersaber
Dont feel bad because it seems that nobody saw what you wrote here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9687.msg256892#msg256892
People are just eager to replicate.
Jesus
Don't say "nobody". ;)
I saw it just after he posted it.
I make it a point to start reading the posts where I left off the day before.
I search by time of posts until I find the last one I read the day before and start there. Sometimes I have to go back 3-5 pages to get to where I left off. ;D
DonL
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@dllabarre
Interesting stuff with the Faraday.
Thanks for the info dllabarre!
I hope I answered some of your questions with my recent tests.
DonL
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WOW!
I removed enamel insulated copper wire, covered steel wire with cotton, added bare copper wire 18 awg between steel wire.
Below I show the original readings from the previous wind style and next to them the new readings in bold from the new wind style.
Dry:
2.5mV (milli-volt) connected to steel and copper now .735Volt huge difference
If I connect to both steel wires or both copper wires then I get zero volts as expected.
steel wire 1.3 ohm 1.7 ohm similar readings
copper wire .5 ohm .7 ohm
Dry:
Inductance: steel 463.0uH, copper 451.3uH
185.0uH, 127.0uH
Wet:
Inductance: steel 518.9uH, copper 493.4uH
182.6uH, 125.9uH
Wet Voltage:
.812V .801V huge difference
.510V at first but dropped to .364V after 2 minutes
Initial observation is "more Cotton means more voltage".
DonL
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WOW!
I removed enamel insulated copper wire, covered steel wire with cotton, added bare copper wire 18 awg between steel wire.
Hi DonL
Did you 'strip' the copper bare - or did you simply leave it with its usual coatings?
Regards,
Rosemary
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Don't say "nobody". ;)
I saw it just after he posted it.
I make it a point to start reading the posts where I left off the day before.
I search by time of posts until I find the last one I read the day before and start there. Sometimes I have to go back 3-5 pages to get to where I left off. ;D
DonL
Don:
You don't have to do it like that. Just select "Show replies to your posts" from the menu at the top left of any page and it will show all of the topics you posted in, and when you select a topic, it will take to right where you had left off. This way, you will not miss any posts in any topics you have posted in and are following.
I hope this helps. Nice work on your experiments.
Bill
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Hi DonL
Did you 'strip' the copper bare - or did you simply leave it with its usual coatings?
Regards,
Rosemary
I removed the enamel insulated copper wire from my coil.
Then covered the remaining bare gal steel wire with a piece of cotton.
Then wound new bare copper wire 18 awg between steel wire windings (insulated from each other with the new piece of cotton).
This was my original plan to determine if enamel insulated copper wire could replace cotton insulated copper wire.
So far it cannot.
Two things changed.
1) I changed from enamel insulated copper wire to bare copper wire
2) I added cotton between the bare gal. steel wire and the new bare copper wire thus increasing the cotton in the coil thus increasing the water retained.
More testing is needed.
DonL
PS - it's been almost 2 hours and my coil is reading .798V down just a little from .812V... A lot better then the first coil.
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Don:
You don't have to do it like that. Just select "Show replies to your posts" from the menu at the top left of any page and it will show all of the topics you posted in, and when you select a topic, it will take to right where you had left off. This way, you will not miss any posts in any topics you have posted in and are following.
I hope this helps. Nice work on your experiments.
Bill
That's awesome....
Thanks Bill
DonL
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@rosemary that sounds similar to my belief that all mass has alternating current and the rate at which this current alternates within the mass is relative to its mass and density. the vibrations in all matter signify to me a non linear or non directional movement. the magnetic poles, opposite ends of the same extreme, as all things are, are in perfect balance within mass with no directional or linear movement. i think if a vibrating piece of matter at rest were to have one of its energetic "poles" removed, it would physically travel in that direction. so rather than "pushing" on an object i suppose we are actually pulling away its ability to resist.
alot of energy is exerted when destroying dense matter and likewise the same amount of energy is released from the matter. we know this is true because we hear sound from friction.
i think when we move the rotor we are actually offsetting one of its alternating poles, dependent upon the relative direction we interact with it, and release some of its mass energy in the opposite direction as it tries to compensate and restore balance. i think we are providing an "S" for its "N" to travel to so to speak. to me all of this is relevant to our comprehension of time and space.
far as electrons, i like your theory, except I have never managed to fully grasp the idea of the electron or proton or any of these subatomics.
it has always seemed clear to me magnetism is the inverse of electricity and vice versa in the yin yang of things. likewise N and S, positive and negative, inverse directions of each other exactly. we also have current which is heat and voltage which is cold. but hot and cold are just opposites of the same extreme so "hot" and "cold" are flowing down the same "wire" if that makes any sense.
so my understanding of the two (non-textbook conformed of course) is that if an N pole is the exact opposite of an S pole, then positive should be the exact opposite of a negative. electrons are not conventionally explained to be the exact opposite of the proton, whom both are conventionally explained as positive and negative.
to be honest the electron proton positron neutron graviton all seem like bunch of nonsense to me and a huge complication of something alot more simple. we have charge, fields, and gravity. i think the charge and the field oscillate which creates the third force of gravity, similar to the third force in a gyro when spun AND moved axially.
these of course are just my insane theories =)
-
Gravity, supposedly according to current accepted theory, is made up of a single particle called a graviton. The more mass a body has, the more gravitons it has and therefore the larger its gravitational field. IE, the moon vs the earth.
Now, in some respects, this appears to me to be a dirty way of explaining observed phenomena. But, I do think it is related to mass in some way. Does the graviton really exist? I have no idea. But, mass does exist and the more mass, the larger the gravitational field so, what are we left with?
Magnetism and electricity may indeed mess with the gravitational field but possibly no more than it would with any other form of mass? I do not think that electricity and magnetism are directly related to gravity itself in its most fundamental form, graviton or not.
Bill
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Gravity, supposedly according to current accepted theory, is made up of a single particle called a graviton. The more mass a body has, the more gravitons it has and therefore the larger its gravitational field. IE, the moon vs the earth.
Now, in some respects, this appears to me to be a dirty way of explaining observed phenomena. But, I do think it is related to mass in some way. Does the graviton really exist? I have no idea. But, mass does exist and the more mass, the larger the gravitational field so, what are we left with?
Magnetism and electricity may indeed mess with the gravitational field but possibly no more than it would with any other form of mass? I do not think that electricity and magnetism are directly related to gravity itself in its most fundamental form, graviton or not.
Bill
Hi Pirate. I think our classicists look for a particle of sorts to be the exchange carrier. At this stage the electron - well known - is attributed to the electromagnetic force and - as you say the graviton to gravity. But the graviton has NEVER been seen and is only theorised. The only particles that are known to be stable are the proton - electron and photon. All others have a limited life. And the graviton like the quark and even the 'dark particle' are all theoretically required - never observed. Most classicists subscribe to the graviton and very few to the required 'dark matter'. Those that DO uphold the dark matter particle are mostly astophysicists and string theorists.
But there are no known answers to this and none of the above particles account for the Casimir effect - or the mass/size ratio of the proton to the electron - or to the actual charge carrier of current flow (albeit that some use the electron) together with a host of inexplicable paradoxes in physics. All these questions have effectively been asked since the turn of the century and STILL NO ANSWERS. At least our dark matter theorists and string theorists subscribe to some kind of aether. But they NEVER actually refer to it as AETHER. That's simply politically incorrect. LOL
Bill, I'd be very glad to get a better idea of the earth battery and the work you guys have been doing on the Joule Thief. Is there any way you could give a brief overview. If it's a huge ask then I'll just plough through the thread and see if I can make sense of it.
Kindest regards,
Rosie
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@rosemary that sounds similar to my belief that all mass has alternating current and the rate at which this current alternates within the mass is relative to its mass and density. the vibrations in all matter signify to me a non linear or non directional movement. the magnetic poles, opposite ends of the same extreme, as all things are, are in perfect balance within mass with no directional or linear movement. i think if a vibrating piece of matter at rest were to have one of its energetic "poles" removed, it would physically travel in that direction. so rather than "pushing" on an object i suppose we are actually pulling away its ability to resist.
alot of energy is exerted when destroying dense matter and likewise the same amount of energy is released from the matter. we know this is true because we hear sound from friction.
i think when we move the rotor we are actually offsetting one of its alternating poles, dependent upon the relative direction we interact with it, and release some of its mass energy in the opposite direction as it tries to compensate and restore balance. i think we are providing an "S" for its "N" to travel to so to speak. to me all of this is relevant to our comprehension of time and space.
far as electrons, i like your theory, except I have never managed to fully grasp the idea of the electron or proton or any of these subatomics.
it has always seemed clear to me magnetism is the inverse of electricity and vice versa in the yin yang of things. likewise N and S, positive and negative, inverse directions of each other exactly. we also have current which is heat and voltage which is cold. but hot and cold are just opposites of the same extreme so "hot" and "cold" are flowing down the same "wire" if that makes any sense.
so my understanding of the two (non-textbook conformed of course) is that if an N pole is the exact opposite of an S pole, then positive should be the exact opposite of a negative. electrons are not conventionally explained to be the exact opposite of the proton, whom both are conventionally explained as positive and negative.
to be honest the electron proton positron neutron graviton all seem like bunch of nonsense to me and a huge complication of something alot more simple. we have charge, fields, and gravity. i think the charge and the field oscillate which creates the third force of gravity, similar to the third force in a gyro when spun AND moved axially.
these of course are just my insane theories =)
LOL Magneticitist - we NONE of us know. And I'm entirely satisfied that anyone's model is OK provided it gives the predicted result. The hell of it is to try and understand those things that are NOT that usual - like current flow from two metals and nothing else. It's begging answers. And I'm an obsessive compulsive when it comes to questions. ;D
Take care,
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
-
i suppose i satisfy myself with Tesla's interpretation, though as pointed out none of it can truly be confirmed as of yet. I have to agree that Mass and energy are relative as opposed to mass and "distance", and this energy is aetherically received into the mass, from an inexhaustible supply, at a frequency relative to its mass and density. however somehow i dont think this mass and density is in any way tied together with "weight", otherwise Jupiter wouldn't have such a strong gravity supposedly.
the casimir effect... i always thought that was a "static thing".. i'd think small enough plates when near each other would find some way to attract to each other similar to a piece of dust traveling to and clinging to a shirt. the dust wouldn't do that if electrostatic charge was not affecting it atmospherically.
similarly a proportionally dust-sized meteor compared to the earth would try to "cling" if it was sucked in by our gravity. i guess thats how i look at it..
or maybe Leedskalnin was right and all of our celestial bodies have simply balanced out a perfect oscillation between their magnetic fields, and if it werent for that balance the "moon would fall" to earth.
i think lorentz is one of the major physics terms that doesn't make a whole lot of sense and needs to be analyzed more.. to me "lorentz" is the perfect example of what rosemary was saying earlier about balance and offsetting it.
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After sitting for 9 hours since the last wetting, my new coil is at .790V vs 6mV for the first coil after sitting 8 hours.
DonL
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Hi Sandy,
Nice to see you here.
hi all
- electron tunneling
i've read about the generation of charge separation due to to surface electrons 'tunneling' through a thin layer of insulator/dielectric to escape from a metallic surface, and then being unable to return because they were removed or captured either by air molecules or to another metal beyond the air-gap,
effect increases with heat, plates/sheets of dissimilar metals (few cm^2 area); the test results i read were for aluminium/ copper; effect can still occur with like metals, but reduced intensity; pressure was applied to get an optimum spacing between the metals - effect peaked at some pressure; some effort was made to 'dry-out' the test
sounds familiar? - would be interesting to see if the rigs here can sustain an increased voltage at an elevated temperature for some period - preferably shielded - eg, old electric oven on lowish temp (40-50*C?)
Good point. I'll try it when I've built mine.
- some crystals (eg. Rochelle salt) can be used as a dielectric for increased capacitance
i've read that this material quite strongly exhibits the 'dielectric adsorption' effect - anomalous self-increase of voltage in a capacitor arrangement - thought to be related to previous charge on the cap, but my results show otherwise! could the common salt be adding a slight amount of this effect to whatever else is happening here?
We've considered this. Certainly it's been used in Laser's early video posted here. But you'll note that in his multiple coil arrangement that the 'effect' is lost when initially dampened with saline solutions. So. If it's the salt then it also needs to be drying or dried. Not sure yet.
Magneticist (& others?) - you might be interested to read about some of the anomalous capacitor effects which i've recorded in a PDF - see the 'Secret Life of Capacitors' thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9393.msg247816#msg247816
Thanks for the link.
Regards
Rosemary
-
I removed the enamel insulated copper wire from my coil.
Then covered the remaining bare gal steel wire with a piece of cotton.
Then wound new bare copper wire 18 awg between steel wire windings (insulated from each other with the new piece of cotton).
This was my original plan to determine if enamel insulated copper wire could replace cotton insulated copper wire.
So far it cannot.
Two things changed.
1) I changed from enamel insulated copper wire to bare copper wire
2) I added cotton between the bare gal. steel wire and the new bare copper wire thus increasing the cotton in the coil thus increasing the water retained.
More testing is needed.
DonL
PS - it's been almost 2 hours and my coil is reading .798V down just a little from .812V... A lot better then the first coil.
Thanks Don. My question is this. If you've replaced the enameled copper with 'bare' copper wire - then how do you know it's the increased cotton and not the cleaner copper wiring that's responsible for the increased voltage? And what was the effect on the inductance/conductance with and without actually wetting the cotton? Did you do that test number with the compas?
Apologies for all the questions. Fact is I think I just need to get my own up and running. I've borrowed a winch so that I can clean off the copper wire I've got and should be able to start winding everything tomorrow. Can't wait.
Regards,
Rosemary
Sorry Don - and in your last post here. Was the coil 9 hours later also substantially drier - or is it still wet?
-
If you've replaced the enameled copper with 'bare' copper wire - then how do you know it's the increased cotton and not the cleaner copper wiring that's responsible for the increased voltage? And what was the effect on the inductance/conductance with and without actually wetting the cotton? Did you do that test number with the compas?
Sorry Don - and in your last post here. Was the coil 9 hours later also substantially drier - or is it still wet?
I don't know what caused the increased voltage.
Two things changed.
1) I changed from enamel insulated copper wire to bare copper wire
2) I added cotton between the bare gal. steel wire and the new bare copper wire thus increasing the cotton in the coil thus increasing the water retained.
Being 2 things changed I don't know which one or both caused the increase voltage.
I can't see or feel inside the coil so I don't know how dry/wet it was after 9 hours sitting there. It must have been dryer because things have a tendency to dry out when they are in a warm dry environment. ;D
It's still sitting there and I will test it again when I get home.
I know it will be dryer then it was this morning but I don't know how much dryer.
I'm not sure of what you're asking here:
"And what was the effect on the inductance/conductance with and without actually wetting the cotton?"
My inductance measurements are done with an inductance meter.
The compass movement is a lot stronger after wetting this coil then before but only on one end of the coil. The end of the coil where my windings end. South end. But a little off center of the coil like where LaserSaber positions his rotor. It's really amazing how strong the compass moves in this one spot. You'll have to build one to really understand this concept.
DonL
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Initial observation is "more Cotton means more voltage".
Dielectric charge is still my view on this. You changed the dielectric properties from the enameled wire to steel,to a dielectric of bare copper to cotton. The dielectric of the enameled wire to plain steel shouldn't give much charge as the charge itself is probably moving along with the current on the wire. I think you will find it close to the same with bare copper and bare steel. Using cotton the charge builds up in it. Once the charge builds up to its max where the cotton cant hold anymore,then any incoming charge is pushing it out or discharging it like a cap. That would mean there would have to be a polarity reversal in the copper so charge could flow like any pulsed dc current in a polarized cap.. The higher the incoming flow the quicker the charge buildup. Im just wondering if the radiant part of the pulsed dc is helping the charge.
The compass movement is a lot stronger after wetting this coil then before but only on one end of the coil. The end of the coil where my windings end. South end. But a little off center of the coil like where LaserSaber positions his rotor.
Heres what I see. The poles of any magnet are stronger at the edges than the center. Thats fact. The wet cotton coil had more voltage,current increasing the magnetic field. The compass should be more attracted to the south end. The north end would repel it.
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@Rosemary Ainslie
I posted the link to the live video stream back on page one. Here it is again: http://www.lasersaber.com/public/WebCam/ActiveX1.html
It's been running for 83 days now.
-
And the graviton like the quark and even the 'dark particle' are all theoretically required - never observed.
I thought we observed the bits & pieces (quarks) of protons during high energy collisions in particle accelerators. Looking at the LHC site at http://lhcb-public.web.cern.ch/lhcb-public/ it seems they take snapshots of these beasts all the time.
-
@Rosemary Ainslie
I posted the link to the live video stream back on page one. Here it is again: http://www.lasersaber.com/public/WebCam/ActiveX1.html
It's been running for 83 days now.
FANTSTIC STUFF Laser.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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I thought we observed the bits & pieces (quarks) of protons during high energy collisions in particle accelerators. Looking at the LHC site at http://lhcb-public.web.cern.ch/lhcb-public/ it seems they take snapshots of these beasts all the time.
Not entirely sure about this void. My only knowledge about particles is from the Dancing Wu Li Masters (Zukov) and I've actually never heard about the beautiful atom. It still seems to be a baryon of sorts and I'm just not how it can be classified an atom unless it has at least one proton in it's nucleus. My understanding of this is that the pions enable the an exchange between the quarks and and the gluons in the proton. And I'm not sure that the quark has ever been detected - only theorised. But the fact is that these amazing experts can distinguish particles that literally last for - in one example 0.8 quintillionth of a second (eta). It's an impossibly small slice of time - in my view. And in view of their transitoriness (is that even a word?) I'm inclined to believe that these nuances as they're termed - are simply infinite in variety. What intrigues me here - more than anything - is that they seem to come from nowhere and disappear into nothing. They've never balanced conservation of energy on the particle level. Only conservation of charge. Zukov describes the interactions as throwing an apple at an orange and finding oneself with a fruit salad including grapes, pineapples, qunces, plums - and on and on.
Regards,
Rosemary
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It's still sitting there and I will test it again when I get home.
DonL
The coil voltage is down to 390mV from .790V over the past 8 hours of sitting here drying out. Still shows strong magnetic affects using a compass.
DonL
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I think the observations of lensing indicate that a quantum theory of gravity, based on gravitons interacting with every particle including individual photons, cannot be correct. For graviton interaction to be correct, a photon would have to follow a polygonal path as it passes a massive body, each segment of the polygon being, perhaps, of planck length.
GB
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I think the observations of lensing indicate that a quantum theory of gravity, based on gravitons interacting with every particle including individual photons, cannot be correct. For graviton interaction to be correct, a photon would have to follow a polygonal path as it passes a massive body, each segment of the polygon being, perhaps, of planck length.
GB
Hi GB. Are you talking about gravitational lensing? I believe they used this to prove the existence of dark matter. I know that this has been elevated to a full blown thesis courtesy this proof. But notwithstanding it's still not widely accepted by mainstream. I think they're trying to find the particle responsible for this. They're using germanium pucks to detect this particle - these planted deep underground - in disused mines. And after a 10 year search Caltech have come up with zilch. But I believe the astrophysicists are looking for a meson. Something big but so 'non standard' - so off the wall - that it actually needs to be invisible to light. To me that makes absolutely no sense. The graviton is like the quark. If they find it then I think they'll be able to explain much about gravity. But the simple fact is that gravity itself, like you say, does NOT fit in with quantum nor classical requirements. It's the proof that mainstream still do not have all the answers. Which is a good thing. It keeps them modest. Personally I think string theorists have aced it. But I object to the proposal that there's a 'static' scaffold like stucture that they seem to need. I'd personally prefer to see it moving and energetic. LOL.
All very interesting. In any event - I'm not sure what Laser is showing us here. I'm hoping that it's proof of dark energy - personally. And I'm proposing that this is located in the material of bound amalgams. But there again. That's just my take. Richard Ellis et al - will still not be able to find it - even in the unlikely event that I'm right. This because it's too fast and too small for light to EVER find it. Which means that the aether energies may forever be out of reach of tangible evidence except in those experiments where it can be proven to exceed unity. And then we can probably only point to the aether - with our fingers crossed so to speak. What's needed is this test on higher wattages with some conclusive proof as to whether we've got electrolytic actions here or whether it's purely inductive - which is what I'm hoping.
I intend putting a cling wrap covering over each winding to ensure that it stays dry or dry'ish. This because Don's experiments and Laser's for that matter - point to the fact that there's still that healthy response to magnetic fields - dry or wet.
Regards,
Rosemary
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So far I believe the bare copper has to be insulated from the bare iron (steel).
So you'd have to add an insulation between the washers.
Hi DonL
Yes I was thinking about that and also connecting the washers to gather,sorry I didn't give any details in my original post.
Many thanks for keeping us all updated on your results so far, are you intending to use a magnet rotor in your tests ?
cat
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lasersaber – good of you to continue to show your work for those that find it of interest.
However, your latest approach is basically replacing your galvanic ‘air battery’ for a galvanic NS coil.
And you are now utilizing the magnetism of the coil rather than the electrical output of the air battery.
As you state in your “48 days†video:
"I'm sure there's obviously some level of moisture there, but it's nothing to speak of"
Obviously, there is a massive difference between *no* moisture and *low* moisture.
The extremely low output is a direct result of the very low moisture.
The materials are being consumed at a very low rate as a result of the low humidity.
So yes, you should expect to generate a very small output for a very long time until the materials are consumed.
It is very difficult to determine the output as you provide little data.
In fact, you even say you’ve quit using a multi-meter and are concentrating on just getting your ‘motor’ to spin. ?
Magnetism and electricity are just opposite sides of the same coin, so electrical (watts) output is relative to the magnetic field created in a coil.
Concrete output data is much more useful.
The output required to turn your rotor is very tiny.
You did in passing say “less than ¼ volt†then updated that with:
50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 watts
So you need 400 of your large coils to produce 1 watt.
24,000 coils to light (1) 60 watt light bulb.
That equals a lot of $, space, weight and materials to light 1 bulb!
It’s a matter of practicality:
1) $/kWh
2) Wh/kg
I posted approximate figures in your air battery thread.
( http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9276.msg245413#msg245413 )
The numbers for your current project are even more impractical.
I trust you all realise FULLY that my training in all matters scientific is somewhat sparse.
You said it, not me.....but your enthusiasm is notable.
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50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 watts
So you need 400 of your large coils to produce 1 watt.
24,000 coils to light (1) 60 watt light bulb.
That equals a lot of $, space, weight and materials to light 1 bulb!
you think this is intended to light 60watt lightbulbs? ::)
what is 'painfully obvious', is that you don't have a clue... lasersaber is not trying to light up 60watt incandescent bulbs nor should he be. that would be similar to you trying to light up a 60watt bulb with a dead AA battery. it doesn't make sense, just like your comment.
user2718218 (milehigh) has demonstrated his penchant for pedantism numerous times in numerous places. as far as his advice, i wouldn't bother with it... this reminds me of the joule thief thread where guys that think you know it all (like yourself and user2718218) go off on some tangent (in an attempt to drag everyone, including the experimenters, off into never never land with you) without ever understanding the intent of original experiment or device, like suggesting how many devices will be necessary to light a 60watt bulb. ::)
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you think this is intended to light 60watts lightbulbs? ::)
I don't see a pratical application for this device due to the issues I presented.
What practical application do you envision for a device of this cost, size, and weight with negligible output?
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@dllabarre: You have a scope? I'll show you mine if you show me yours. ;D
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I don't see a pratical application for this device due to the issues I presented.
What practical application do you envision for a device of this cost, size, and weight with negligible output?
then you're not very imaginative nor creative...
your 60watt bulb suggestion is nothing more than a strawman. whether or not the device can light a 60watt bulb is irrelevant. whether or not the device is practical is irrelevant. capiche?
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I decided to try building one of these. I'm using a hollow acrylic tube for the core so I can try different materials in there.
I got a few layers put on today. I wound one row of steel, then put a layer of cotton down. Then I wound a row of copper. I left enough space between the loops to keep them insulated from one another, and to have a space for the next winding to fit into.
Each row is a separate strand and I just connect them at the ends. This makes it much easier to wind.
I think in the end the result will be satisfactory since the copper will be right next to the steel, separated by a layer of cotton and all the layers will be in series.
I haven't taken any measurements yet except to check for shorts. I should have it done by tomorrow and then we'll see if it works.
Cheers,
Ted
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Now this is good stuff. Different, but similar approaches, all with their good merits.
Hey Ted. You got a scope. ;D
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@dllabarre: You have a scope? I'll show you mine if you show me yours. ;D
I don't have a real scope.
I have a scope probe that connects to the sound card in my computer but I haven't researched and found a good free sound card scope program yet.
DonL
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I wound one row of steel, then put a layer of cotton down. Then I wound a row of copper.
Each row is a separate strand and I just connect them at the ends.
Cheers,
Ted
I was going to try that type of winding next. You beat me to it. ;D
One row of steel then cotton then a row of copper as opposed to bifilar where the 2 wires are wound side by side with only cotton separating them like Mr. Stubblefields patent says.
Let us know the measurements when you get time.
DonL
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@capthook
The extremely low output is a direct result of the very low moisture.
This is just wrong. They actually work much better as they dry out. Unlike the air battery design which produces more current in direct proportion to how wet the battery is.
To add to your other points:
50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 watts
I do not know where you got the idea of 50mA from? For the coil in my live video stream, it's probably well less than 5mA - more like 1mA. So there really is no power to speak of.
The numbers for your current project are even more impractical.
You must be referring to my mini coils which produce much less voltage and mA. They also use much less wire. But what is cool, is that they run the motor much faster! They are super impractical if you intend to just hook them up and use them as a battery.
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@capthook
This is just wrong. They actually work much better as they dry out. Unlike the air battery design which produces more current in direct proportion to how wet the battery is.
I concur.
When my coil is dry and the reading is 0-1mV the coil still drives the compass crazy when I pass it by the coil.
Where is this magnetic energy coming from then?
DonL
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When my coil is dry and the reading is 0-1mV the coil still drives the compass crazy when I pass it by the coil.
Where is this magnetic energy coming from then?
I would suspect there is remanence in the core and steel wire. With higher iron and low carbon in the core the effects should be smaller. You could take a fine needle or a tiny steel washer and see if the core or iron wire attracts it. If it doesnt then maybe the earths magnetic field is involved.
I need to acquire a compass and do a plain totally non magnetic steel core to see if the compass is disturbed by the core..
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I need to acquire a compass and do a plain totally non magnetic steel core to see if the compass is disturbed by the core..
I'm sure it will be. When I speak of testing the electro magnetic effects of the coil, I mean controlling the magnetic effect by shorting the wires exactly like I show in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcjxA7bYUp0
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I'm sure it will be.
I think so too. The earths magnetic field should at least run on top of the iron cores skin even though its weak. I would think if the core were aligned with the earths magnetic north and south,the field lines would run the length of the core making it easier to pick up a magnetic field.
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I would suspect there is remanence in the core and steel wire. With higher iron and low carbon in the core the effects should be smaller. You could take a fine needle or a tiny steel washer and see if the core or iron wire attracts it. If it doesnt then maybe the earths magnetic field is involved.
I need to acquire a compass and do a plain totally non magnetic steel core to see if the compass is disturbed by the core..
FYI my core is a ferrite rod that I had laying around.
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FYI my core is a ferrite rod that I had laying around.
If its a hard ferrite then you probably have remanence in it as well as the wire.
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@capthook
“The extremely low output is a direct result of the very low moisture.â€
This is just wrong. They actually work much better as they dry out. Unlike the air battery design which produces more current in direct proportion to how wet the battery is.
‘Much better’ – a collection of actual data points would be much more useful.
An easy way to measure the strength of the magnetic field for data points is to see how much weight the coil core will lift/hold by using a small bolt and adding/subtracting washers/nuts until it drops from the core and then weighing it as an example.
Then you could compare actual numbers/data rather than a vague ‘better’ assessment.
Other factors to consider are core remanence and, more importantly, saturation.
With the small power input, it would take a very long time to saturate the core.
If you were to take a reading at 1:00 and another at 1:10, the latter will be larger as the magnetic domains will have become further aligned in the core = more saturated = more magnetism.
This would continue (for a long time in the case of low power input) until the core is fully saturated, about 1.8-2T in 1018 cold rolled steel cores.
This seems to be further illustrated by:
I put the coil in a glass of water and it went to .840V.
I took it out and after 2 minutes it was down to .540V.
I put it in the cage when it was .535V
The magnetic attraction was stronger when dry then when I first took the coil out of the glass of water.
After a few minutes of being in the cage the magnetic attraction was stronger then when it was dry.
The core is becoming further saturated over time meaning a stronger magnetic attraction.
However, the voltage is going down as it dries, meaning a decreasing *rate* of saturation over time.
To add to your other points:
“50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 wattsâ€
I do not know where you got the idea of 50mA from? For the coil in my live video stream, it's probably well less than 5mA - more like 1mA. So there really is no power to speak of.
I saw a DVM reading and you commented in one of the videos of the amps being 50mA... maybe it was a different, unrelated video?
“The numbers for your current project are even more impractical.â€
You must be referring to my mini coils which produce much less voltage and mA. They also use much less wire. But what is cool, is that they run the motor much faster! They are super impractical if you intend to just hook them up and use them as a battery.
With the same total force output in this scenario, imparting it in multiples over a larger area is a more efficient method than that of 1 large input.
3 small .25 spaced around 360 degrees = more efficient than 1 large .75 at once.
1. Some have seen my magnesium air batteries videos. I would consider these a purely galvanic battery. You build them with the goal of trying to achieve as much voltage and amperage as possible. They can last a very long time when run as air batteries without using the salt water. With the salt water they only last a month or so. They have no electromagnetic effect so I do not consider them to be like the NS coil at all.
With the exception being that *both* are ‘working’ as a result of a galvanic reaction.
That is what is providing the magnetism in the NS coil, the volts/amps provided by the galvanic reaction traveling through the wire in the coil creating a magnetic field.
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Again, thanks for sharing your work.
It is well presented with your videos and such, could just use more *data*.
I’m just trying to provide some things to maybe consider as you further your work.
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...However, your latest approach is basically replacing your galvanic ‘air battery’ for a galvanic NS coil.
And you are now utilizing the magnetism of the coil rather than the electrical output of the air battery.
Golly. Isn't Laser's coil a variation of the Nathan Stubblefield coil? I rather think it is. They have very little in common other than the mix of metals. Not even the wires are joined according to the NS patent.
As you state in your “48 days†video:
"I'm sure there's obviously some level of moisture there, but it's nothing to speak of"
It's good that you remind us of the 'run days' but you've rather understated this. It's now in excess of 82 days and climbing. ::)
Obviously, there is a massive difference between *no* moisture and *low* moisture.
Yes. Obviously.
The extremely low output is a direct result of the very low moisture.
The materials are being consumed at a very low rate as a result of the low humidity.
So yes, you should expect to generate a very small output for a very long time until the materials are consumed.
We've rather exhausted the subject of moisture being responsible and intend establishing this on an empirical basis. You've possibly missed this point? In any event 'a very long time' as you put it, is vague. If this machine continues to operate for a decade? Would that cut it? Or would you recommend that we only declare it OU if it first runs for infinity? Frankly if it runs for another day I'd be impressed and it seems set to last rather longer. But time will tell. Indeed.
It is very difficult to determine the output as you provide little data. In fact, you even say you’ve quit using a multi-meter and are concentrating on just getting your ‘motor’ to spin. ?
Not sure how you infer this? What Laser pointed to was the fact that the measured voltage bears little if any relationship to the tendancy of the rotor to spin. This is strange indeed. We all know of voltage as a measure of charge imbalance and we also know that when it's induced in a coil then it corresponds to a magnetic property. This because it's the base reference used in standard multimeters. The assumption then is that the higher the measured voltage the more inclination there would be to generate that spin. But this is imply not the case. On the contrary. It appears that the exact opposite is the case and therein lies the puzzle.
Magnetism and electricity are just opposite sides of the same coin, so electrical (watts) output is relative to the magnetic field created in a coil.
As mentioned this is only VALID if it conformed to the experimental evidence. I'm sure we'd all prefer to see what the machine is telling us rather than assume what it should be telling us. As it is it would be reckless to assume anything at all on this rig.
Concrete output data is much more useful.
Indeed. That's exactly what we're looking to. The evidence of a spin over a period of time without the evident input of moisture that is usually applied in a nathan subblefield build.
The output required to turn your rotor is very tiny. You did in passing say “less than ¼ volt†then updated that with:
50mV x 50mA = 0.0025 watts
So you need 400 of your large coils to produce 1 watt.
24,000 coils to light (1) 60 watt light bulb.
That equals a lot of $, space, weight and materials to light 1 bulb!
It’s a matter of practicality:
1) $/kWh
2) Wh/kg
You said it, not me.....but your enthusiasm is notable.
Golly. Damning with faint praise. ::) It seems we've lost Omnibus' belligerence to this paraded contempt. The only reference to any measurement on that entire rig under discussion is the quick and possibly inaccurate measure of voltage presented with the caveat that it may very well be wrong. To determine current flow here one would need to measure some kind of resistive value. And I'm entirely satisfied that we DO NOT know the resistive value of the coil. Nor is there a shunt anywhere in series with the coil. But frankly if the entire rig is as big as a house if it does, indeed, deliver light over an average life time I think that you'd find some real interest - even if it's not entirely economical. And then again. It's early days. I don't think our early computers ever pretended to be economically viable. Just really, really, interesting.
If I were inclined to being overly protective and overly imaginative I'd advise Laser to 'take cover' as this subject seems to be pulling in the 'big guns'. Fortunately I'm neither. ;D
Rosemary
EDITED
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Golly. Damning with faint praise.
:-* Well, I must say that I disagree with your assesment of your scientific/technical prowness that I quoted. You are obviously educated and well-spoken, I just couldn't resist the 'jab' after the earlier Omnifuss throw-down. :)
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Hi guys. So nice to see so many new builds. Iota, Ted and Slapper. That's got to be a good thing. I'm off to campus to start stripping my copper wire. And I've also found some nichrome - hopefully that'll cut it.
And hopefully we'll get a running commentary from CaptHook that relates to his own experiments here. That way they'll be more digestible. ;D
Such adventures. ;D ;D And really nice to get some input from Laser. Thanks for this. I think we'll all be in need of guidance when it comes to positioning that rotor. Certainly I will. I guess it's just trial and error and an awful lot of patience. I'm over qualified at the 'error' and underqualified at the patience. But will attend to both - God willing and time permitting. LOL.
Kindest as ever
Rosemary
btw. It's not often that I'm accused of being well eductated. LOL. I rather cherish that comment CaptHook albeit not strictly a reflection of the truth. But like everyone here I share that obsessive interest in electrical and, indeed, all kinds of energy.
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Hmm, got an exotic idea:
Let's say the device works in dry state and the main reason for that is picking up external EMF: now let's assume we could isolate it from the external EMF and it wouldn't work anymore:
Maybe we could power it instead with electrostatic potential produced by a Wimshurst device as well?
If that works and the small magnet motor still spins (hopefully with more power) one could then couple the movement of this magnet rotor with the Wimshurst device, and then feedback the produced EMF again to the coil. You might as well also need to switch in a small Teslacoil in between first and feed the NS coil from there.
Would be a lot of work though (especially the Wimshurst is a pain to construct yourself...), and there might be some flaws in my way of thinking e.g. the biggest issue I would see is that the electrostatic power for the NS coil is maybe too weak to power the small magnet motor, but then again, it doesn't seem to need much power anyways.
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Hi all
I couldn't get access to our lab as there was a mix up with keys. Hopefully tomorrow. Meanwhile I improvised on the base for the bobbin and constructed my own with plastic putty. Am still stripping wire but hope to have a couple of windings done before I crash.
Here's the record.
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sorry guys. Usual errors with the downloads and I can't seem to delete the duplications. I'll try this again.
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Finished it, it took forever to wind. I used about 200 feet of both copper and steel 20awg wire.
The dry voltage across the coil was .69 volts with the copper positive. Current was a minuscule 40 ua.
I sprayed it with some tap water, which got about a third of the layers wet, and the voltage went up to .75 volts. The current jumped up to 19 ma.
The current and voltage were unaffected by inserting an iron core into the coil. The iron did polarized and would deflect a compass at either end. However, I couldn't get any response from either the compass or a piece of steel wire when I shorted the coil.
I'm not used to these low power devices. If I fire one of my motor coils up on the bench, I get all kinds of metal crap flying around.
Anyway, I decided to soak it in salt water and see how it worked after that. It currently reads .82 volts at a respectable 85ma soaking wet. I'll dry it out and see if those values hold up.
Cheers,
Ted
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Very nice build! Hey, 85 mA's is a great power output in my opinion. I think it would have been cool to bury it in the ground before adding the salt but, too late for that. All of my coils went up in power and volts when in the ground, for what that is worth.
Of course, to replicate what Laser is doing I believe you are right on the money here.
Again, very nice job.
Bill
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Very nice build! Hey, 85 mA's is a great power output in my opinion. I think it would have been cool to bury it in the ground before adding the salt but, too late for that. All of my coils went up in power and volts when in the ground, for what that is worth.
Of course, to replicate what Laser is doing I believe you are right on the money here.
Again, very nice job.
Bill
Thanks Bill. These things are weird. When I shorted the two ends of the copper together and short the two steel ends, the current between the two went up to 106ma. Instantaneous current is over 200ma, then it drops down to a steady 106.
I couldn't detect any solenoidal pull either. A steel rod partially out of the center exhibits no detectable movement when the leads are shorted, even when balanced on a very soft spring. This indicates little or no net current flow in one direction, which would be keeping with two generators (the two wires) pushing current in opposite directions. But then how do we get a polarity on the steel? A slight imbalance maybe?
I'm not really sure anymore how Laser's motor is running either. Perhaps there's some inductance from the spinning magnets that dictates polarity? I'll have to think about it.
Cheers,
Ted
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7:00 PM Yesterday
I wrapped an additional layer of cotton around the outside of my 2nd coil build (on top of bare copper wire).
soaked the coil in water for 2 minutes,
wrapped plastic around the coil to possibly slow down the drying out effect.
readings over past 24 hours:
.927V 7:05PM (didn't take A readings) :'(
.935V 7:49PM (didn't take A readings) :'(
.775V 10:15PM 9mA
.658V 6:44AM 6mA
.614V 3:29PM 4mA
.586V 7:23PM 3mA
I unwrapped the plastic, checked the outside wrap of cotton and it is still wet, wrapped the plastic back on.
DonL
PS: I shorted my copper to copper and steel to steel like Ted did and my amps went down but my voltage went straight up from .586V to over .720V in less than 1 minute. The voltage is settling in around .735 after 3 minutes.
Weird is the word ;)
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Finished it, it took forever to wind. I used about 200 feet of both copper and steel 20awg wire.
The dry voltage across the coil was .69 volts with the copper positive. Current was a minuscule 40 ua.
I sprayed it with some tap water, which got about a third of the layers wet, and the voltage went up to .75 volts. The current jumped up to 19 ma.
The current and voltage were unaffected by inserting an iron core into the coil. The iron did polarized and would deflect a compass at either end. However, I couldn't get any response from either the compass or a piece of steel wire when I shorted the coil.
I'm not used to these low power devices. If I fire one of my motor coils up on the bench, I get all kinds of metal crap flying around.
Anyway, I decided to soak it in salt water and see how it worked after that. It currently reads .82 volts at a respectable 85ma soaking wet. I'll dry it out and see if those values hold up.
Cheers,
Ted
Hi Ted. I'm so jealous. I've spent the evening winding about 1.5 inches - a quarter of the required. My fingers are 'black' - my eyes exhausted - and I've lost the bobbin holder twice. The one time it flew off and cracked - AAGH. Fortunately I had another spare. But WHY won't it stick? I'm using Pratley high strengh quickset. And they show pictures of it holding up whole bulldozers. It's meant to dry in 15 minutes. And this is now HOURS ago. Added to which - that stripping of the copper IS FOR THE BIRDS. I couldn't get any kind of systematic winding with the nichrome. Anyway I'll press on - pressing on. It's now 2 in the morning and I'm going to see if I can hold the one prately's holder on with some wire. Maybe it'll hold better.
Regards,
Rosemary
Maybe found the problem. It's plugged the glue at one side of the the pipe to hold in the filings. And I think it's too thick to expect a quick set. I'll leave it for the morning to get thoroughly dry.
??? Am beginning to appreciate the skills you guys have. Definitely an art form here. Well done Ted. And Don - I am now blown away at what you've managed and all so quick.
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Continuing along with the weird theme... I shorted all the separate windings together, both top and bottom... and the current increased. You can see when it's in the vertical position the current is around 119ma. When I tipped it over to show the bottom shorts, it gave me a few more ma's.
I don't know whether to consider this a battery or a self filling capacitor (is there a difference?). I doesn't act like a coil though. I'll bet you could get the same results with two sheets of metal coiled up like a capacitor with some cotton in between. That's essentially what I have here. I may try that next...
Ted
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Manually heating up of the coil makes a difference also.
I used a hair dryer to warm up my coil a little and the volts increase from .400V to over .500V in 30 seconds.
DonL
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When I shorted the two ends of the copper together and short the two steel ends, the current between the two went up to 106ma. Instantaneous current is over 200ma, then it drops down to a steady 106.
My thoughts. In essence there is a galvanic current bridge between the copper and steel through the wet cotton. When you tied them together you put a load on the coil by short circuit. Sort of like putting 2 wires on a battery and shorting them out. You would draw more amps from the coil or battery because you are feeding the output back to the input instead of out to a load. That should heat up the coil also to a certain degree. Untied and using a meter,the meter itself only reads the input to the meter. Putting meters on both input and output the readings should be basically the same.
bet you could get the same results with two sheets of metal coiled up like a capacitor with some cotton in between.
You could try a cotton layer over the copper,then wrap aluminum foil over that,then a layer of cotton over the aluminum and see if it raises the voltage/amps up.
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Hi all. I think I've discovered the problem with the glue. I didn't mix the two types right. Anyway have just redone this so hopefully they'll stick now. Also. I was advised to clean everything off with thinners. Maybe the answer is there somewhere. I've just redone it and will leave it until morning in the hopes it will dry. ;D Me and this little coil have had words. Most of them unprintable. LOL.
But I've finished one whole winding. I need to photograph this as proof. ;D But not sure that it's the best example of winding that's ever hit this forum. LOL. This is definitely the last time I'm going to try it. I did try stripping the copper first off - but I found that the winding became impossible because I couldn't fit the copper between the nichrome. It sort of sat on top. Not sure that this was the best thing.
The good news is that I get a voltage reading in millivolts - and everything is as dry as a bone. But it fades away to nothing in no time at all. I also can't find my little compas so can't test that until the morning. I also tried systematically shorting the wires - just to see if I could elicit a response from my little rotor and there's a definite 'moment' - but fades out just as quick. I can, apparently, get reed switches from campus - so will try and attach that tomorrow. But I think I first need a few more windings. I get it that this might help the general effect.
Frankly - I very much doubt that I'll get that spin. But I'll give it my best shot. I might have to build another 'lighter' rotor or invest in some heavy duty magnets.
Regards
Rosemary
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Manually heating up of the coil makes a difference also.
I used a hair dryer to warm up my coil a little and the volts increase from .400V to over .500V in 30 seconds.
DonL
I went to check on it this morning and I think it died overnight. It read only .2 volts and the current was a paltry 10ma.
I stuck it outside in the sun to warm it up. Perhaps that will revive it. Maybe it needed a constant load to keep it going?
We'll see if the patient revives in a couple of hours.
Ted
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Hi all. Just some record of the troll menace. Any likeness to any person living or dead is purely co-incidental. ;D
Not sure where the broken lines came in. ???I need to try and redo this. apologies
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To Rosemary Ainslie:
Why do you post such things? Its like you are trying to start an argument with someone....Yeesh! Maybe you can post this stuff on threads that YOU have started and then we know not to bother reading there...How immature.
J. ::)
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@rosemary
Just remember that your replication at this stage does not have to be pretty, just useful.
Jesus
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current was a paltry 10ma
I just took new readings on my coil today. It's the coil from my live video stream. I took the readings with the motor running. It was showing between 30mV and 15mV. The mA readings were between 1mA and 1/2mA. Do not judge your coil by it's voltage and mA. When I build the coils the only thing I really care about is the coils electromagnetic ability. If you have a coil making 100mA or more but no electromagnetic effect you end up with a nice galvanic battery. I also want to point out that I am not just talking about the natural compass attraction to iron when I speak of an electromagnetic effect.
I really enjoy seeing all the great pictures. They are very interesting.
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To Lasersaber.....the drawings of the coil in this thread and in the patent...........show steel beside copper , parallel winding ......in your video of 2nd layer,.... you say to keep copper on top of steel...and does the copper have to be insulated from itself as well as the steel,....via the cotton coating.......shylo
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To Rosemary Ainslie:
Why do you post such things? Its like you are trying to start an argument with someone....Yeesh! Maybe you can post this stuff on threads that YOU have started and then we know not to bother reading there...How immature.
J. ::)
If the truthbeknown - it's possibly not the most perfect likeness. I feel that the old lady's been shown to some considerable advantage - and the troll seems to be somewhat overweight from a general excess of the good things in life. If it's offended anyone - then let them sue me. I refute that it's off topic. I think that's a rough sketch there of laser's rig. I think that was the general reach. Somehow.
And no I'm not starting a quarrel. I'm simply exercising my freedoms of expression.
Jesus - thanks for the re-assurance on the coil. I actually went and bought my first 'pinchers' 'tweezer' type thing - and have sorted out the kink in the nichrome. Unfortunately at the cost of breaking that pratley number again. But if the glue holds on the frame - then I'll just glue the chip back. It's a bit messy. LOL. Am learning ever escalating respect for all you guys with your neat builds. My excuse is that I'm an amateur.
Nice values there Laser. I'm looking forward to 21st. I think that's officially the start of our spring, your autumn and it will take your rig well past it's first season of uninterrupted motion. It's really very good news. And thanks for tolerating that 'off topic' number. I just needed to get some light relief from the frustrations of building. ;D
Regards,
Rosemary
edited.
:)
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This coil is the only thing of importance here...........I have stranded wire eqivalent to 15awg........... I used this in place of solid wire....but no readings and no magnetic fields ....bare coppper not insulated with cotton............I think the bare copper has to be insulated individuallly by the cotton .......magnetic drive is the way to go............shylo
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This coil is the only thing of importance here...........I have stranded wire eqivalent to 15awg........... I used this in place of solid wire....but no readings and no magnetic fields ....bare coppper not insulated with cotton............I think the bare copper has to be insulated individuallly by the cotton .......magnetic drive is the way to go............shylo
Hi shylo. Can't quite understand you. Are you saying that the stranded copper doesn't work? That's good to know. But weird if it's the case. Just another one of those strange things about this rig.
Would love to see your build if you're up for it. By the way - I think that Ted has put his coils in parallel and I think I'm going to try the same. But I'll try series first.
Regards,
Rosemary
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my manufacturing skills leave alot to be desired............I did find out that if you hold a piece of steel facing north and south .....a magnet will line up with the right polarity............the piece of steel will aquire a polarity.........shylo
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In the unlikely event that anyone's following the saga of my build - the Pratley discs HAVE NOT STUCK - the glue has NOT SET - and clearly - if Divine Providence is responsible - then I think I'm being told to 'give up'. LOL. I have no intention of listening to this advice - not yet. But I'll defer to some expert opinion here and try something a little more standard.
Regards,
Rosemary
;D
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Rose:
Just use 2 pieces of wood for your end caps. Nothing says they have to be round, square will work too.
Just a reminder for folks. If Stubblefield did not have to place these coils in the earth to get the maximum effect, he would not have gone through the trouble of doing so.
Bill
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Hi Rosemary,
Looking at the picture of your coil, it seems that your copper wire is very close to your steel wire. What are you using to insulate the two from each other? Are you using magnet wire?
Ted
Check your PM.
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Nice!
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Nice!
And it won't roll off the table ;D
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Nice!
Really good idea guys. I'll try and get someone to cut this for me. I think I've got wood somewhere.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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I said this because squares are easier to produce than circles. You can use whatever you have laying about.
Bill
PS As a matter of fact, one could use 1 foot x 1 foot square end caps and install multiple coils into it. Wind the coils and then install them into an array unit of sorts. Hmmm...I will have to try this.
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I said this because squares are easier to produce than circles. You can use whatever you have laying about.
Bill
PS As a matter of fact, one could use 1 foot x 1 foot square end caps and install multiple coils into it. Wind the coils and then install them into an array unit of sorts. Hmmm...I will have to try this.
Are you going to try that this weekend?
:)
J.
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Hi Rosemary,
Looking at the picture of your coil, it seems that your copper wire is very close to your steel wire. What are you using to insulate the two from each other? Are you using magnet wire?
Ted
Check your PM.
Saw the PM but missed this post. Hi Ted. The copper is already insulated. I stripped it off my first winding - the intention to do one winding in nichrome - a layer of cling wrap - a second winding of stripped copper - then another layer of cling wrap - and so on. But not only was it hell to try and separate the windings that they didn't short - but nor could I get the nichrome/copper mix in neatly. The one was more 'on top' of the other. Anyway that was my first abortive effort. Then I decided to keep the copper insulation - which worked better but I kept knocking off those discs at either end. Right now I've unwound the structure and am going to start again. But I haven't got the heart for this yet. I'll rather work on something else that's been left in abeyance for way too long. And I'll get back to this after the weekend - hopefully.
Fingers are cut - eyes are exhausted - and I'm generally joining the ranks of the war wounded. I thought this would be easy. I'm a cook - so I rolled the putty with my trusty wooden pastry roller - pressed out the shapes with a little tot measure that I use - used my small cruet spoon to ladle in the require iron filings. Used cling wrap all over the place to keep things from shorting. But then entered into a war of words with pratley's glue. Right now I'm not in the mood to re-engage. We're not on the same page. And I can't seem to persuade it to do what it claims it can. LOL
I'm now going to follow yours and Lazer's good advice and settle both ends of that argument before I tackle the middle bit. And I first need to find some wood. Still looking. I don't have a saw to cut it. But I have friends who do. I'll get there. Hopefully. ::)
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
edited
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Guys - just by the by. I think I'm the only one of us whose trying to guage the effectiveness of this device without water. What I'm trying to do is establish if it's possible to generate enough potential difference in the windings to induce a current - which hopefully will turn the rotor - which hopefully will induce a changing electric field in the windings - and so on. In effect I'm trying to find out how much of this relies on a 'battery' type effect or on an pure inductive effect.
And even if it is a 'battery' effect I'm hoping to establish if 'water' is responsible. In other words - is the water molecule required for rusting or is it somehow being used as an electrolyte and is this the 'source' so to speak of the 'changes' - the 'energies' required in the electromagnetic interaction. Certainly it's evident that water increases the measured voltage and amperage. But if it can still work on really small values without the addition of water - then that would really be something. However, even with the required water - it's not a train smash. One can, presumably, make the coil pretty nearly air proof - which would stop the evaporation of water. That way one would not need to keep dampening the structure.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Guys - just by the by. I think I'm the only one of us whose trying to guage the effectiveness of this device without water. What I'm trying to do is establish if it's possible to generate enough potential difference in the windings to induce a current - which hopefully will turn the rotor - which hopefully will induce a changing electric field in the windings - and so on. In effect I'm trying to find out how much of this relies on a 'battery' type effect or on an pure inductive effect.
And even if it is a 'battery' effect I'm hoping to establish if 'water' is responsible. In other words - is the water molecule required for rusting or is it somehow being used as an electrolyte and is this the 'source' so to speak of the 'changes' - the 'energies' required in the electromagnetic interaction. Certainly it's evident that water increases the measured voltage and amperage. But if it can still work on really small values without the addition of water - then that would really be something. However, even with the required water - it's not a train smash. One can, presumably, make the coil pretty nearly air proof - which would stop the evaporation of water. That way one would not need to keep dampening the structure.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Rosemary
As far as I can tell, it's a battery. If Laser is getting a magnetic field, then most probably there is some imbalance in the currents in the windings. Any net current flowing in one direction of the windings would cause a magnetic field.
I'm in the process of drying mine out to see what it does. It's an interesting device, but I have another big project to complete before I can really give it some time.
Small guage wire will save your fingers and your nerves.
Ted
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Are you going to try that this weekend?
:)
J.
It will be quite a while before I have the time to try this I am afraid. Things are pretty busy and crazy over here.
Bill
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Nichrome is non magnetic so if your looking for a magnetic field collapse it wont work. Nichrome is 20% chromium which is toxic and carcinogenic. Not a high percentage but I would still wear gloves handling it. If there is enough current flowing in the nichrome it can heat up and start destroying the magnetic field in the core.
Myself and others dont agree this is a battery when used in the ground. A battery is a source of power. When in the ground the telluric current's are the power source not the coil itself. This would make the coil a transformer or conductor of sorts. If the load on the coil was switched off a charge would still be present on the coil. Turn the switch on and the current flows again just like turning on a switch in your house.
When the telegraph companys stopped using them they were dug up years later and they were still charged and putting out sparks. The coils were never put randomly in the ground. They found the telluric currents first and placed them there.
Magnetic fields are still foremost in my mind. We cant forget there are 2 ways to hook this coil up either. Each one needs to be studied separately. Questions that need answering. How the magnetic field of the iron wire is interacting with the iron core and vice versus. Is the magnetic field collapse on the iron wire creating the polarity reversal or is it the Voltage spikes on the copper wire or both. This is where good materiel's come into play.
It would be nice to have a proficient animator.
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Hi all just built my third attempt the first was on page 19 #270 I believe.....on the 1st one I didn't wet it got nothing.......the second one I used teflon tape as an insulator didn't wet it ethier...still nothing....the third one I took the time to stretch out nine feet of stranded wire equalling 15 awg.....wound the wire in cotton..then took a two inch carriage bolt 3/8 dia. and nine feet of electric fence wire approx. same guage ..........wound one layer of steel,.........layer of cotton cloth ,then a layer of the cotton covered strand wire,...... ended up with twice as many turns of steel,...because covering of cotton took up alot of space .....checked it dry nothing ...wetted it down ...after 10 mins it read 3.5mv....10mins after that 4.7mv.....10mins later 5.6 mv seeems to be holding at this value..........so I wetted down my first build......reads .7mv ....see what happens over time........shylo
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Hi all just built my third attempt the first was on page 19 #270 I believe.....on the 1st one I didn't wet it got nothing.......the second one I used teflon tape as an insulator didn't wet it ethier...still nothing....the third one I took the time to stretch out nine feet of stranded wire equalling 15 awg.....wound the wire in cotton..then took a two inch carriage bolt 3/8 dia. and nine feet of electric fence wire approx. same guage ..........wound one layer of steel,.........layer of cotton cloth ,then a layer of the cotton covered strand wire,...... ended up with twice as many turns of steel,...because covering of cotton took up alot of space .....checked it dry nothing ...wetted it down ...after 10 mins it read 3.5mv....10mins after that 4.7mv.....10mins later 5.6 mv seeems to be holding at this value..........so I wetted down my first build......reads .7mv ....see what happens over time........shylo
Great stuff Shylo. Have you built that rotor? I think - regardless of the measured voltage - it's quite important to check on the response of the rig with the rotor against the switch. Not sure that I'm right here but laser keeps telling us to ignore the voltage and check it's response to magnetic fields. I think?
Anyway. Well done. Have you got a picture for us?
Regards,
Rosemary
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Nichrome is non magnetic so if your looking for a magnetic field collapse it wont work. Nichrome is 20% chromium which is toxic and carcinogenic. Not a high percentage but I would still wear gloves handling it. If there is enough current flowing in the nichrome it can heat up and start destroying the magnetic field in the core.
I'm not sure about this Iota. We use nichrome in our circuits precisely to generate a voltage and I'm not sure that voltage can happen without magnetic fields. In any event - if it does heat up - to my way of thinking that's a bonus - provided only it can still generate some current from that voltage. And provided always that it turns that rotor. ;D
Myself and others dont agree this is a battery when used in the ground. A battery is a source of power. When in the ground the telluric current's are the power source not the coil itself. This would make the coil a transformer or conductor of sorts. If the load on the coil was switched off a charge would still be present on the coil. Turn the switch on and the current flows again just like turning on a switch in your house.
Very interesting indeed. But outside of the ground? Do you see laser's rig as a battery or what?
Magnetic fields are still foremost in my mind. We cant forget there are 2 ways to hook this coil up either. Each one needs to be studied separately. Questions that need answering. How the magnetic field of the iron wire is interacting with the iron core and vice versus. Is the magnetic field collapse on the iron wire creating the polarity reversal or is it the Voltage spikes on the copper wire or both. This is where good materiel's come into play. Lots of questions here.
Indeed.
Regards,
Rosemary
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two hours later............down to .5mv on 3rd build 1st build at .4mv.....I noticed it's alot cooler now .....so I decided to heat coil with a blow drier....the volts increased every 3-4 seconds ....ended up at 16mv ...when I removed the heat the volts began dropping every 8-10 seconds held at 2.6mv for now ............then I tried wetting coils with boiling water...the volts jumped to 24mv ....but quickly started to drop back down.......hovering around 2-3 mv...........the boiling water did nothing for 1st .......so then I tried boiling water but with salt added.........volts jumped again in 3rd .......this time the dropping volts took longer but still dropped.......in my first build Idumped the now warm salt water on ....the volts went to 20mv and very slowly began to drop ....alot slower than the 3rd build.......can somebody tell me why the heat seems to produce more voltage.....and would more voltage make for a stronger magnetic field..............thanx for any input..........shylo
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I'm not sure about this Iota. We use nichrome in our circuits precisely to generate a voltage and I'm not sure that voltage can happen without magnetic fields.
By itself voltage is an electric field better known as an electrostatic field or e-field. It has its own lines of flux and attracts and repels,but its not a magnetic field. Voltage causes the attraction between opposite charges. Once the charge or current starts flowing in a conductor, a magnetic field arises along the conductor and where it exits is always the north polarity. Once this e-field starts to flow it then becomes an electromagnetic field. This flow can also increase the electrostatic field from what Ive read.
Do you see laser's rig as a battery or what?
For me in conventional terms no. In or out of the ground. If the coil itself cant sustain a usable charge it cant be much of a battery. Even the wet cotton hasnt shown promise. If you could tap the surrounding electrostatic field it still wouldnt be a battery but an electrostatic generator. I think the Ns coil is where Tesla got his idea for his electrostatic generator. The Ns coil may build up a charge and hold it,but so does a rug. I still consider the coil to be an electrostatic induction coil as science does, and an electrostatic generator or transformer if you will when its producing usable power. It seems the greatest power is in the telluric currents as far as history goes.
One of the things Ive run across in the early days of coils is that some were making their own arc lamps. If this could be done using low voltage/amps, then this coil is usable beyond a doubt. That may mean a lot more turns of wires. The cost of copper itself doesnt make it cheap.
In the future,if we dont destroy ourselves,cold electricity or radiant energy may replace the old standards.
.
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can somebody tell me why the heat seems to produce more voltage
My best guess is expansion of the copper lowering the resistance. I think some type of thermal conductivity is also involved.
and would more voltage make for a stronger magnetic field
I would say in general yes but the amount of current and frequency come into play.
With spark gaps a low voltage spark has a more intense magnetic field than a high voltage spark gap.
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More info on the Earths electric field.
http://www.xearththeory.com/introdis_earth_electromagnetic_coil_transformers_step_up_down.html
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Iota - that was such a sweet link. I've seen this before but here it's really well presented. Many thanks.
Guys, just something I've been considering. Someone gave a link to a youtube number that was, effectively, a replication of laser's rig - but with one reed switch. I've lost that link. That guy had a far faster spin - and I couldn't understand his language so have no idea if he used moisture on the coil - or not. Would be awfully grateful if someone could recover that link again and perhaps explain the test parameters he used.
Laser's rig definitely has the rotor turning in one direction. He explains this as a result of the push/pull synchronised emf from the coil. The point is this. As the rotor is only inclined to turn in one direction then there has to be some moment when the magnet is first attracted to the EMF and then that same magnet repelled - in short order. If it was relying on repelling the second approaching magnet then effectively it would act as a brake to that spin. In other words the rotor needs to be frequency dependent and dependent on those switches working in antiphase. Begs all kinds of correspondences to the size of the rotor to get exact positioning of the magnets to line up correctly in phase with the switches. Or does the switch determine the frequency and provided there's some spatial separation of the magnets then they 'fall in'? In any event. I can see that it would definitely be preferable to work off laser's actual sizes to keep some correspondence in these ratios. I'll check laser's video again and see if I can find a size. Else, laser, if you're reading here. Could you please give an approximate diameter to that disc? I'd be obliged.
Regarding the use of water. I've asked a couple of chemists to comment. Not yet heard from both but from the one I've been told that it's probably a battery. I'm still of the opinion that water is simply a preferred medium for flux. Water provides a very smooth field. For instance I've heard it said that a bath of water is so smooth it could be argued that it's a single molecule. Effectively therefore water would offer less resistance to flux than the rest of our atomosphere with its multiple disassociated molecules and atoms which would otherwise be the only medium through which it would pass. I question that there is any actual electrolytic process going on. Else we'd surely be aware of an accelerated drying process as those molecules disassemble.
If it's simply required for this - for clearing a path, so to speak, for the flux - or for strengthening the flux fields - then we're still on line for OU. Effectively it would then simply be a third element in that construct. And it could definitely be structured that the moisture is retained in that environment on a relatively 'permanent' basis. One would simply need to encase the rig in a plastic bubble of sorts and seal the ends against the coil - I would have thought? The Laser generator - would then be just that. NOT a battery.
The only question I still have - actually there are loads. I'll start that again. One question I still have is this. Are the collapsing fields the result of an interaction with only those three elements in phase with the switch - or does it also require some subtle interaction of the magnets on the rotor itself - to keep the inductive fields changing? I know laser uses strong magnets and I very much doubt that any of that material will be isolated from the influence of those moving fields. But there's a series of really complex events going on. I agree with Iota. It would be nice to get this illustrated in animation.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Laser's rig definitely has the rotor turning in one direction. He explains this as a result of the push/pull synchronised emf from the coil. The point is this. As the rotor is only inclined to turn in one direction then there has to be some moment when the magnet is first attracted to the EMF and then that same magnet repelled - in short order. If it was relying on repelling the second approaching magnet then effectively it would act as a brake to that spin. In other words the rotor needs to be frequency dependent and dependent on those switches working in antiphase. Begs all kinds of correspondences to the size of the rotor to get exact positioning of the magnets to line up correctly in phase with the switches. Or does the switch determine the frequency and provided there's some spatial separation of the magnets then they 'fall in'? In any event. I can see that it would definitely be preferable to work off laser's actual sizes to keep some correspondence in these ratios. I'll check laser's video again and see if I can find a size. Else, laser, if you're reading here. Could you please give an approximate diameter to that disc? I'd be obliged.
Regards,
Rosemary
Laser's rig is a simple motor. As a magnet activates the first reed switch, current flows through the windings of the coil. This creates a magnetic field which attracts the magnet towards the pole. As the magnet passes by the pole, the first reed switch opens up and the field collapses. No more attracting force.
Somewhere around this time the second reed switch closes. This sends current in the opposite direction through the coil, which then creates an opposite polarity magnetic field at the pole, which in turn pushes the magnet away from the pole.
Rotor speed is determined by friction (air and mechanical) and counter emf created in the coil by the passing magnet. The rotor could also turn in either direction. The reed switches would have to be moved, but either direction would work.
Laser's rotor is also turning much faster than it appears in the video. The frame rate of his camera synchronizing with the speed of the rotor makes it appear to move slowly.
I hope this helps clarify things a bit.
Cheers,
Ted
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Ted:
I believe you are exactly correct.
I was also thinking that the same thing might be accomplished using a small transistor, say a 2n3904, and a single coil near the rotor ala Bedini. Sort of a solid state Stubblefield coil. Of course, you would have to have the output to fire the transistor at or above its threshold but this should not be a problem. I was getting 1.32 volts at 5 mA's on my second Stubblefield coil attempt. More than enough to do the job I believe.
Bill
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Laser's rig is a simple motor. As a magnet activates the first reed switch, current flows through the windings of the coil. This creates a magnetic field which attracts the magnet towards the pole. As the magnet passes by the pole, the first reed switch opens up and the field collapses. No more attracting force.
Somewhere around this time the second reed switch closes. This sends current in the opposite direction through the coil, which then creates an opposite polarity magnetic field at the pole, which in turn pushes the magnet away from the pole.
Ted. Thanks for answering this. That's exactly as I saw it. In other words there's a push/pull on each magnet as it passes the switches. Therefore the switching speed determines the rate of rotation. What I was not sure about is whether the 'motive' force was from the initial magnetic 'attraction/repulsion' or whether the voltage/amerage on the coil was independent. Perhaps both? But I do suspect that the inductive condition of the coil is such that it could initiate this movement. In which case what? Does that mean that the magnets on the rotor do not actually 'change' the inductive condition of the coil. It's purely reactive? Not sure if the question is clear.
Laser's rotor is also turning much faster than it appears in the video. The frame rate of his camera synchronizing with the speed of the rotor makes it appear to move slowly.
I hope this helps clarify things a bit.
I never realised this. Thanks for explaining things here Ted. I suspect I've been taxing your patience. I also realise that if the 'replicator' video that I saw also had a smaller diameter then it would appear to be moving quicker. Do you have a rough measure of that rotor? If not, don't worry because I can make a guess from comparing it to the size of the coil. I think laser actually mentions its length.
Thanks again
Kindest as ever,
Rosemary
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Ted:
I believe you are exactly correct.
I was also thinking that the same thing might be accomplished using a small transistor, say a 2n3904, and a single coil near the rotor ala Bedini. Sort of a solid state Stubblefield coil. Of course, you would have to have the output to fire the transistor at or above its threshold but this should not be a problem. I was getting 1.32 volts at 5 mA's on my second Stubblefield coil attempt. More than enough to do the job I believe.
Bill
Wow. Have I got this right? You'd use the rotor to induce the current to drive the transistor? That's so neat. I also wondered about the implications of using the rotor to generate current flow. Very neat indeed.
Well done Pirate.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Rose:
No. You use the output from the NS coil to drive the transistor which fires the coil which then drives the rotor. It would be the same as the one magnet-no bearing Bedini motor design of Jonnydavro. I have a Youtube video of my earth battery powering one of these. Just a single coil and a transistor. No reed switches.
I hope this is more clear now. Lidmotor just released a video of his Stubblefield coil running one of these. He also added a pick-up coil to the rotor and can light leds from that as well. I believe he still used the reed switches and no transistor though. Worth checking out.
Bill
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Rose:
No. You use the output from the NS coil to drive the transistor which fires the coil which then drives the rotor. It would be the same as the one magnet-no bearing Bedini motor design of Jonnydavro. I have a Youtube video of my earth battery powering one of these. Just a single coil and a transistor. No reed switches.
I hope this is more clear now. Lidmotor just released a video of his Stubblefield coil running one of these. He also added a pick-up coil to the rotor and can light leds from that as well. I believe he still used the reed switches and no transistor though. Worth checking out.
Bill
Thanks Bill. I think I get it. Would LOVE to see that video if you've got the time to add the link. Effectively the reed switch is simply replaced by a transistor? Hopefully that's right. I still rather suspect that a second simple coil in proximity to the rotor should generate a current. But presumably that would come when we explore the work this rotor can do.
Ta muchly Bill. I'll try not to plague you all with my muddles. ;D
Kindest as ever,
Rosemary.
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Rose:
Here is one of Lidmotor's videos running a one magnet no bearing Bedini motor from an NS coil:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/35/bpzOatekWKA (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/35/bpzOatekWKA)
Here is a great video he did on the Stubblefield coil:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/33/PGZWJwlJFzY (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/33/PGZWJwlJFzY)
Here is my video of my EB running a Bedini motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY)
Bill
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Rose:
Here is one of Lidmotor's videos running a one magnet no bearing Bedini motor from an NS coil:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/35/bpzOatekWKA (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/35/bpzOatekWKA)
Here is a great video he did on the Stubblefield coil:
http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/33/PGZWJwlJFzY (http://www.youtube.com/user/Lidmotor#p/u/33/PGZWJwlJFzY)
Here is my video of my EB running a Bedini motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rauOlhNK0iY)
Bill
Thanks again, Bill, very much. I have NEVER worked with motors. I've sort of had a 'blind spot' and still do. Can't get my head around all those flux lines. And until I do - I'm floundering. I sort of need to work it through step by step. A plodder. Sort of need to see each step before I can move on - so to speak. At this stage - as it relates to Lasers coil - I'm battling to see if the flux from the iron can share the flux from the copper. And then find some kind of reason why the combination of iron and copper would be stronger and more effective than just using the one or the other. And then the interminable conflict of trying to understand to what extent the magnet magnetises the iron - copper - core - and the rest. It's no good trying to explain it. I think I must just sit down and draw these interactions up - step by step. I get into a kind of mental tail spin. LOL
Lidmotor's replication of laser's number was so FRUSTRATING. Didn't laser tell us that he precipitated the rust - actually aggravated it - by dipping his coil in salt water? Then it dies. Then after due process - the structure sort of sets into a really stable condition - recovers its voltage - and then just seems to pump more and more energy? Perhaps someone could tell Lidmotor to hold onto the 'rusted' coil and see if it gets into a similar condition. But for the galvanisation to rust within 24 hours definitely speaks to an electrolytic process - I think? I see why you and Ted keep saying it's a battery. But then again. I have NO IDEA if Lidmotor wet his first coil. Or if the rust is a combination of moisture in the air coupled with the galvanic effect. Can't work it out. Really I think we need a chemist to do a full on analysis - unless you know of such? In fact I've probably taxed your patience to death - but would be SO grateful for some answers. I'll see what I can find out on Google. Failing which, tomorrow is Monday and I may be able to find someone on campus. The problem is that the Chemistry dept is on a separate campus and I'm not sure where. Maybe I can find someone and just email them. I'll see.
The other difficulty I have is that the earth battery itself - as you mentioned - can run for YEARS. There's bound to be as much moisture available in the ground as above it. Why then does your battery not suffer the same fate as Lidmotors and lasers - both of which rust. Does your coil also rust? Or what? And even if it does rust - it still works. And if it doesn't rust - then WHY? And would you be able to see if it rusts if it's got that secondary copper winding over the copper/iron mix?
Not easy being me Pirate. I know way too little for my own peace of mind. LOL. The thing is that this effect is ENORMOUSLY important. I simply never realised all these developments and it speaks to precisely the evidence that I looked to in my our circuit. The difference is that when one sees a motor spinning one need NOT engage in an endless debate on measurements provided, obviously that it also is giving us OU. At this stage not even that much is actually established. And it won't be until these questions are answered. But, I'm always an optimist. I'm still hoping against hope that we've got more of an inductor than a battery.
Sorry. This ended up being rather longer than I intended.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Rose:
The Stubblefield coil is most definitely NOT a battery. The EB topic, re-named by its founder Localjoe to Nathan Stubblefield Earth Battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications better explains what I think it is. It is a self-generating induction coil.
On the bench, these things will not receive the telluric currents and will therefore not achieve the high output experienced by Stubblefield. Also, when in the ground, if there is any deterioration of the materials at all, it is so very slow as to be not a factor I am concerned about.
Also remember that Stubblefield himself said that you can use series/parallel to achieved any desired voltage level or power level that you want. That does not work with my electrodes at all.
I have no background in chemistry at all...none. I also do not hang out with anyone who does and do not know of any, except at the local University but, those folks over there do not have open minds at all. It is the University I graduated from and, if it is not in the text books, they do not know about it nor do they want to know.
Sorry I can't be any more helpful on the chemistry side of things. Keep watching Lidmotor, he told me he is going to bury one of his coils soon so we can see what happens then.
Bill
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think about how long a rechargeable battery can last and think about what is actually taking place when we are charging it. there are many types of course, and the elements being used as the plates will determine their lifespan, as well as the care being taken during their charging processes.
this is something that i still do not fully understand, but i suppose you could say we are just sending "energy" from an external source into some capacitance where it is stored atomically. the actual electrolyte in a wet cell seems to me to just be some type of conductor with reactive resistance, or like a switching transistor almost. no current is moved across them unless there is a potential difference created at the terminals.
an SLA battery works with gases and lead/sulfur chemical reactions but theres still metal plates storing the charge. iv'e heard from people that the acid is actually storing the charge but this is not true because i have taken batteries and replaced their acid completely with tap water and it retained a good charge.
these batteries are like perfectly made miniature antennas for energy.
because they have capacitance they will absorb this energy until the capacitance will no longer carry it.why can we not say that atmospheric waves are traveling at a very high voltage but extremely low current that is not noticeable. this should mean this voltage could be inverted according to capacitance, so a small AA sitting on the table may take x amount of V and A and invert it down to 1.5V @ y current. the way it is wound im thinking it has a perfect balance of capacitance and antenna efficiency as to say it cant be charged externally to the extent of a conventional battery but it charges and drains in great unison with the atmospheric waves.
because the stubblefield coil uses an iron wire parallel to its copper windings, it is a super efficient magnetic flux receiver and sender. it should be giving flux all around and not just at the core ends. all the field thats entering and coming from the copper is magnetically going straight into the iron windings also as opposed to just the core. likewise any spike it gives out will have a great field "push" from little draw.
i think people are wondering whether this is a battery doing work or the atmosphere but i think its sort of obvious that its both.
when a battery dies i think its usually due to the electrolyte and not the plates, unless they have somehow shorted or disintegrated. but i have yet to see a battery with disintegrated plates, and know 12sla's can be kept in use for many years if properly cared for.
why is the stubblefield not using the same premise as a grounded tesla aerial? an earth battery is the same thing but its using pre-charged elements.
im thinking because of lasersabers work and realization that the moisture is not so much a big part of it, or as i understand it more of a hindering addition, the actual earth-grounding of the coil may be receiving its benefits from the negative potential its receiving rather than any extra moisture?
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If you look at how Laser has wired his coil, you'll notice that the outside copper is connected to the inside steel. This is so that when they are shorted, current in both wires flows in the same direction around the core. If the current flows in opposite directions the induced fields cancels each other out. Wired the way he has it, the currents compliment each other and create the same polarity field in the core.
This is how it's able to operate as a motor coil.
I still think it's a battery in the shape of a coil, but there very well may be other things going on there that I'm unaware of.
Cheers,
Ted
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Ditto Pirate & Magneticitist. As Ted Ewert stated its a motor an electromagnetic motor. If hes reversing polarity with the switches it would have to be timed fairly well with only one switch. But you also should be able to turn the rotor with one opposite polarity using pulsed dc as its a free wheeling rotor. You must have enough current for the magnetic field and have it timed out on the field collapse. A good iron core would be better for that in comparison to ac or reverse polarity.
I think some basic things may still be overlooked or not understood.
The coil can be wired as a self generating electromagnet or a Voltaic couple.
The coil was meant to be used in conjunction with batteries when using the voltaic couple..
The main use of the magnetic field collapse is for the secondary coil for higher amps.
A polarity reversal makes it Ac.
Current always exits a north pole. The end you hook the power source to is the south pole.
If you look straight done the core of the south end or power source end you will see the south magnetic pole or field on the left side of the core and coil. Once that field reaches the top center or apex of the core or coil it turns into the north magnetic field on the right side of the coil. If your end caps were loose so you could spin them towards the copper wire,that is the direction the current and magnetic field are flowing and its always north even if you switch polarity.
Heres another thing. You dont have to have the wires on one end of the coil. They can be on both ends. If you run short on wire to go back to the other end, just put them on the closer end. Its not a must to be on one end its just handier for hookups.
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Iota:
I agree totally with your post. My first coil was only one layer so, naturally it had 2 wires at each end. It still worked fine. It did not have the power output of my 2nd coil which was 2 layers. I never wound a secondary on any of my NS coils. Now that Lasersaber has done this, I hope we can continue to discuss and experiment with what is happening here.
I also agree with those that say there is more than one thing going on with these coils....galvanic, telluric, induction...whatever but I am convinced it is not just any ONE thing.
The more folks that replicate this, the better and the more we will all learn.
Just like the JT topic, we went from making a basic JT and trying to figure out how to improve that to all sorts of wild, successful experiments that exceeded our imaginations on how they could be used. I hope this can happen here.
Bill
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Guys - sort of on topic but not quite. Laser posted on the 14th Sept that is rig has been running for 83 days. TOMORROW is the 21st Sept (those of us at this side of the globe). OFFICIALLY THEREFORE tomorrow will be 90 DAYS RUNNING. In my book that's the start of our spring and to those of you to the North - to your autumn - AND it's a WHOLE summer/winter SEASON PAST WHERE THAT NUMBER'S BEEN TURNING.
Really nice stuff.
Regards,
Rosemary
;D ;D ;D
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I agree. Let's see a battery we can buy do this.
Tonight, I drink a toast to Lasersaber. Very well done.
Bill
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I agree. Let's see a battery we can buy do this.
Tonight, I drink a toast to Lasersaber. Very well done.
Bill
INDEED LOL. I'll do the same. To quote a less than charismatic personality - Bertie Wooster - 'toodle pips' laser and may your rig have many more seasonal birthdays. ;D
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Hi Magneticitist. What an interesting post.
think about how long a rechargeable battery can last and think about what is actually taking place when we are charging it... this is something that i still do not fully understand, but i suppose you could say we are just sending "energy" from an external source into some capacitance where it is stored atomically. the actual electrolyte in a wet cell seems to me to just be some type of conductor with reactive resistance, or like a switching transistor almost. no current is moved across them unless there is a potential difference created at the terminals.
I was obliged to do a chemical analysis of a lead/acid battery just to get my head around the process. The fact is that the net recharge only re-establishes the early imabalanced bonding in those molecules. NO extra electrons in that mix. They never actually move away from the cell itself - else there would be evidence. There's none. So in recharging? What then is being added? It certainly isn't electrons. Yet the recharge energy can be applied from a plug source or from another battery - or, as we show - from the material of the resistor - such that it measurably degrades the material of the resistor. But whatever it is that's being transferred - it certainly isn't electrons. But I suspect I'm going on going on. It's a pet beef of mine.
an SLA battery works with gases and lead/sulfur chemical reactions but theres still metal plates storing the charge. iv'e heard from people that the acid is actually storing the charge but this is not true because i have taken batteries and replaced their acid completely with tap water and it retained a good charge.
Indeed. The point is this. A flat battery can reconstitute the acid condition of the water that it's so pure you could drink it. Yet every single electron, every single atom - in that entire mix - is fully accounted for. Yet something was added to reconsistute the acid/alkaline condition. It's that 'something'.
these batteries are like perfectly made miniature antennas for energy. why can we not say that atmospheric waves are traveling at a very high voltage but extremely low current that is not noticeable.
My take is that we're pretty well drenched in magnetic fields from our earth that ALL move in one direction. In effect IF we had a magnetic field that orbited exclusively around the equator - for instance - we'd NEVER experience a charge imbalance. It's the fact that we have all those fields ONLY going in one direction that I think somehow establishes a voltage imbalance. The second half of the orbit is hidden inside the structure of our Earth. So. It's a monopolar 'field'. And before these efforts of the JT contributors - I think this is what is seen as a source of gravitational energy. What you guys are showing is that it's got exploitable inductive properties.
because the stubblefield coil uses an iron wire parallel to its copper windings, it is a super efficient magnetic flux receiver and sender. it should be giving flux all around and not just at the core ends. all the field thats entering and coming from the copper is magnetically going straight into the iron windings also as opposed to just the core. likewise any spike it gives out will have a great field "push" from little draw.
I entirely agree.
why is the stubblefield not using the same premise as a grounded tesla aerial? an earth battery is the same thing but its using pre-charged elements.
Can't comment. I know nothing about a grounded tesla aerial. But I agree. The earth battery must certainly be using charge and it's certainly coming from the earth. I keep coming back to this. The condition of 'binding' in any structure may be the result of magnetic fields that bind those atoms. Think of how many such binding fields are holding this solid earth in some form of loosely bound amalgam - if this is right. In which case - if they're simply all little magnetic fields - then that's certainly a very large source of those telleric currents. The more so as they are aligned/misaligned with that larger - all encompassing magnetic field on our earth - with all that potential difference.
im thinking because of lasersabers work and realization that the moisture is not so much a big part of it, or as i understand it more of a hindering addition, the actual earth-grounding of the coil may be receiving its benefits from the negative potential its receiving rather than any extra moisture?
Again. I absolutely agree. But there is also no question that water seems to accentuate - or to concentrate that effect.
Frankly this is one of the many reasons I'm so entirely engaged here. I've long looked to the casimir effect as being proof of these fields. And if they're orbiting - in any way at all - then we would NEVER find them. We can only see a voltage imbalance - and an orbiting magnetic field would be ENTIRELY balanced. Very interesting post there M'itist. I think we're sort of on the same page.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
edited
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Rose:
I am only speaking from my own personal experience here. In the original earth battery topic, we had all sorts of folks saying that the Stubblefield coils was simply a galvanic reaction, and nothing more.
Well, many members went on to prove, at least to my satisfaction, that this was not the case. It may indeed play a part, as I have said, but that is not all that is going on.
Case in point. My own measurements showed that, when buried in the ground, the dryer the ground, the better the output. Others found this to be true as well. then, we read where Stubblefield said pretty much the same thing.
So, IF water/moisture is the electrolyte AND it is only galvanic, then we should expect just the opposite right? When it rained, my power and volts were down. when it was dry, and very hot for many days, everything went up. As I said, others reported this as well.
I am just posting this here to save others from re-inventing the wheel from the work done on the other topic. Tesla always said that the earth contained more power than man could ever hope to use. I still do truly believe that the earth plays a large part in the NS coil output. Remember Tesla knew Stubblefield and vice-versa.
I do not claim to know what is going on here but, I can say that it is much more than just a galvanic reaction. I am very confident of this.
Bill
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Hello Bill. No question there's no easy answers here. And I actually think that this little coil has not had the attention it deserves. To me it is entirely FASCINATING. Thanks to Wilby for bringing it to my attention at all.
We need to explain the accelerated rusting process to be entirely shot of 'galvanic' interactions. But the fact is that the 'rusting' reduces the effect - certainly in the early stages. It seems to need to 'finish' this process before it can be start pumping out a usable potential difference. And the fact that dry conditions improve the effect on those buried numbers - that speaks volumes. But for some reason moisture seems to improve the effect 'above ground'. But nor does anyone claim that the coils get immediately drier - which would be proof of an electrolytic type reaction. So. That water may just be a preferred element for the path of the flux. That's how I see it anyway. And in any event - this is something that can be quickly proved.
Truth is that this has not garnered the kind of attention it deserves. I'm guiltier than most as I've been on these forums for over a year. But it was the motor turning that grabbed my attention. And I entirely agree with you. There's a HUGE source of potential energy in our earth. I think the work that you guys have done here is GOLD. If we can somehow unravel the cause - then I think we should be able to scale this up to more usable levels. And I'm entirely certain it's doable. Definitely I'm up for it if it simply requires a lot of work. But I also think we need to get to those answers. These forums are fraught with trial and error type tests. It's haphazard. Required - but maybe these small effects you're showing us here - just maybe we can find some applicable 'rules' to guide us better.
I'm absolutely immeasurably grateful for all this work you guys have done. It's simply proof of how absolutely REQUIRED are these forums and all you contributors who are open minded enough to explore. Just so NICE.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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The Stubblefield coil is most definitely NOT a battery. The EB topic, re-named by its founder Localjoe to Nathan Stubblefield Earth Battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications better explains what I think it is. It is a self-generating induction coil.
I get it. And you've already pointed out to us that Stubblefield himself only 'defaulted' to this as an explanation for the patent clerks. LOL.
On the bench, these things will not receive the telluric currents and will therefore not achieve the high output experienced by Stubblefield. Also, when in the ground, if there is any deterioration of the materials at all, it is so very slow as to be not a factor I am concerned about.
I agree with this - especially if the ground gives a stronger effect. And nice to know that the materials don't degrade. That's got to be a plentiful source of potential energy.
Also remember that Stubblefield himself said that you can use series/parallel to achieved any desired voltage level or power level that you want. That does not work with my electrodes at all.
This is quite important. Ted showed us a coil that was wired in parallel and in series. I think? Is that the preferred?
I have no background in chemistry at all...none. I also do not hang out with anyone who does and do not know of any, except at the local University but, those folks over there do not have open minds at all. It is the University I graduated from and, if it is not in the text books, they do not know about it nor do they want to know.
It's my experience that academics are all onto or into their special projects and 'lines' of interest. But - rare as it is, there ARE those academics who are prepared to explore new effects. You just have to keep knocking on doors. I know this. My knuckles are bare. LOL. And I've found a remarkable institution where 'courtesy' is part of their mission statement. ;D My experience has been that there has been a certain want of this at most universities. Nothing quite so unrestrained as criticism from a expert who relies on his knowledge for his livlihood. I've got some prize comments from a wide variety of representatives of these our learned and revered. LOL. They're articulate - even when they don't answer and prefer to simply put the phone down. But I think they've got their backs to the wall - or up against those long lines of books that they keep in their libraries. Michio Kaku has assured us that ALL THOSE BOOKS are now obsolete. LOL.
Kindest as ever,
Rosemary
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If you look at how Laser has wired his coil, you'll notice that the outside copper is connected to the inside steel. This is so that when they are shorted, current in both wires flows in the same direction around the core. If the current flows in opposite directions the induced fields cancels each other out. Wired the way he has it, the currents compliment each other and create the same polarity field in the core.
This is how it's able to operate as a motor coil.
I still think it's a battery in the shape of a coil, but there very well may be other things going on there that I'm unaware of.
Cheers,
Ted
Of course. Your absolutely right. Then they 'share' the flux paths. But why then is it more effective using a combination? I suppose that goes to the heart of all our questions here. Definitely two metals are more effective than one. I've got a day free as they're doing an audit on campus. And I'm going to see if I can get some definitive answers. LOL. I can but try.
Regards,
Rosemary
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dont forget good ol eddy. im sure hes playing a role..
its a wonder i have yet to come across one single person who has wound a coil around an aluminum core.
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I made up a quick drawing of the 3 simplest ways to hook this coil up which does not include a secondary. You must have a closed loop in order for current to flow. Feel free to clean this up or annotate it more.
http://zolfco.webhostingwholesale.com/images/nsco1.bmp
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Iota:
I think you may have left 2 possibilities out. I always wired mine and got the most voltage and mA's from the copper wire from either end to the core. It didn't seem to make any difference which copper wire end was used. You can also go from the core to the iron wire but it was never as good as the cu to the core was for me.
Bill
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Bill ...are you saying that you take your measurments between the core and the leads of either copper or steel.....my 3rd build is holding at.5v ....2 days of drying out ....my 4th build is holding at .3v..1day of drying out.....I noticed you can hook them in series ....they add.....3rd and 4th were built differently.........3rd is a better build.....also you can hook them in series with the two rods driven in the ground............they add..........put a smaller dia.galv spike inside the galv waterline(-) ..it jumps the voltage by ^ 100mv...........but it has to be centered...my ground was real wet .....will try it in the sand hill next weekend....coil preformed better out of the ground ......than in it............shylo
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I think you may have left 2 possibilities out.
I left more than that out. I just gave the simplest standard hookups.
I always wired mine and got the most voltage and mA's from the copper wire from either end to the core.
I assume this was purely galvanic v/a. Interesting loop. I would think the iron content in the core would be higher than in your iron wire. Could be less resistance. The current or e-field in the wire and/or cotton if left unloaded could also be picked up by the core. Instead of the current flowing through the iron wire conductor, it flowed through the whole e-field surrounding the coil through the core. A whole lot less resistance. My thoughts on it for now.
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Shylow:
Yes, that is correct. And Stubblefield used to put these in series and parallel to get whatever volts or power he needed for his device loads. I can't do that with my electrodes, it does not work for me at all. Electricme, on the EB topic, isolated his electrodes with plastic and got over 60 volts from a bunch of electrodes in series.
Iota:
But, if it was purely galvanic then why were my numbers always higher when in the ground? Also, as I have mentioned before, the dryer the ground the better the numbers. I am still puzzeled by a lot of things with these coils.
Bill
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My statement of "I assume this was purely galvanic v/a" was assuming the coil was out of the ground with no other external voltage source or input and using the coils galvanic current. If in the ground I would think you would have more v/a. Just speculating but the galvanic e-field previously mentioned would no doubt extend out into the earth and possibly connect to the earths e-fields or telluric currents making it part of the loop and bypassing the iron wire as its conductor. If thats the case then its a closed loop between the earth and coil and sounds like a charging mode on the coil itself. Interesting question.
Though still speculation on my part, I still think the damp cotton is holding the charge. With a dielectric of nine for water it would slow charge down. But once the water drys out its dielectric would change to a lower number building up a quicker charge with an easier flow. The Earth is apparently doing the same according to experiments so far. A specific water content in a given materiel and volume may be needed for good charge flow. Seems it cant be too wet or too dry. If Stubblefield had a mica insulator around the coil to add the secondary that would keep the coil dryer but still retain moisture.
You may want to try leaving the wire on the core to see if it charges up some overnight.
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Iota. Here's the thing. Buried - the coil works better dry. Above ground the coil works better wet. Rusted and it appears to work - forever? We're yet to find out. Basically because we can't yet argue whether it's entirely dry.
But wet or dry - a 'battery' would require an electrolytic interaction that varies the molecular state of atoms in that cell. Traditionally this is seen to degrade the continued efficiency of the cell - as it occurs at a quantifiable value - relates to the mass of the elements in that battery - and that 'uses up' or changes that atomic/molecular material of the battery itself. If the cotton somehow enables the transfer of charge without actually disintergrating then it's simply another 'element' in that cell. It is not interacting as one understands a typical electrolyte would interact. And the same with water.
To argue a battery you would require the disintegration of that battery to account for all the energy delivered by that battery. Bob has already advised us that there is NO material degradation or alteration of these Earth Batteries - even after two years. In my humble opinion - it is more of a conduit for electromagnetic forces that are inducing current flow. And whether this is argued as telleric currents or to an overriding interaction of the coil with our earth's magnetic fields - or wether it is simply interacting with the metals in the coil itself - the fact is that it is NOT degrading. Any more than any coil degrades. I cannot - for the life of me - therefore see this as a battery.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Guys - I've now spoken to a chemist who has stated that the the salts in the earth act as the bridge for the conduction of electrons. I then explained about Laser's rig and he correctly asked 'how do we know if there is no water in remaining in that coil?'. Fair comment. He then stated - 'this is just a waste of my good time. Goodbye.' ... and put the phone down. A familiar reaction. But I'm now wondering if - just perhaps - it's appropriate? Maybe, indeed, the 'salt bridge' required for a galvanic interaction - does not also have the required result of degrading of the material?
The fact is that I can't argue the absence of 'salts' in either laser's rig nor in the your buried numbers - Bill. Nor for that matter in any experiment unless it's using distilled water. I actually think that the only way to actually prove this is to encase the coil in some sort of air tight container that can hold a given amount of moisture and that moisture - the wetting - will need to be done with distilled water. Has anyone done this? Even used just distilled water on a Laser's rig type replication?
In any event. I'm feeling a bit disheartened about this. I need to give it some more thought. It's the argument related to 'electron' flow required for 'current flow' that gets me. It's self-evidently nonsense but have never found a chemist who cares to argue the fact. I have endless objections to this starting with the thought that electrons could even share a path. But I'm digressing - way off topic - and right now am not up to it in any event.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Rose:
I am familiar with that response from "the learned".
Look at it this way, I have delt with more than a few hecklers on my youtube videos, and I tell them all the same thing. If I can light 400 leds for free, or do any of the other things I have been able to do, if the NS coil ONLY lasts 20 years in the ground...who cares?
I mean, look at Laser's topic here....3 months and counting right? "Oh that is just a galvanic reaction and it will eat up the materials in a few days." Well, we now know that is not correct. What if his device runs a year? 2 years? At what point will folks say....wow, I guess that really is something?
With my engineering background I am a results oriented kind of guy. I don't care much what something was designed to do, or it is supposed to do, I want to know what it can do.
I like how these "smart" academics always come up with something like...."Well there is salt in the earth and that explains it." Really? Not to me is doesn't. Does he have a power system that will do this for this long? If not, why not?
Anyway, thanks for trying Rose. Just remember, we can enjoy what these devices can do and we can most likely improve upon that with some experimentation and research. That is more than enough for me.
Bill
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I haven't posted much lately because I didn't have anything new and exciting to show.
But because everyone is talking about the water and salt I decided to post this.
My 2nd one layer coil: a layer of cotton on core, one layer gal. steel wire, a layer of cotton, one layer bare copper wire, a layer of cotton, a layer of plastic wrap on the outside. NO SALT. Just Tap Water.
reading:
Volts Time Day Amps
.927V 7:05PM D1
.775V 10:15PM D1 9mA
.658V 6:44AM D2 6mA
.586V 7:23PM D2 3mA
.505V 7:51AM D3 1mA
.501V 6:26PM D3 1mA
.512V 11:20PM D3 1mA
.350V 7:40AM D4 .5mA
skipped Day 5
.300V 6:52PM D6 .2mA
After taking the plastic off of my coil and letting it dry for one day
.0V 7:30AM D8 0mA
Next time I will use distilled water.
DonL
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Who had guessed that, what has already been told on the very first pages? ... Congraz, at least some of you now learned what a galvanic cell is.
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Iota. Here's the thing. Buried - the coil works better dry. Above ground the coil works better wet
In the ground it still has moisture. Even if its rusted on the outside. The known working coils that Im aware of have been in a moderate rainfall area. Take a dry coil to the desert and I dont think you will get much unless its around uranium or other radioactive materiel. Finding an area with high radon would probably boost the power. Radioactive waste water might give it a good jolt too. But no way is this coil purely galvanic as water is a weak electrolyte. If it were then a solution would have already been found.
I have a few other configuration ideas with this coil but time and money are my enemies. I have to put out 6 grand for a new ac unit this week. That put a big dent in the works.
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After months away from OverUnity.com I decide to make a visit and see this interesting update about Lasersaber's coils...
Well, even if it's a galvanic reaction, the core of the question is to see how many time the device will work non-stop. For now, a few months... But if it run for 10 years? What was the cost to build the device? Doesn't it is worth to be built?
Maybe Lasersaber discovered a new kind of ultra-efficient galvanic reaction, at low cost. Who knows...
Well... Goodbye... Hence the one year I come back here at OverUnity.com to see if this Motor is still running.
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Rose:
I am familiar with that response from "the learned".
Look at it this way, I have delt with more than a few hecklers on my youtube videos, and I tell them all the same thing. If I can light 400 leds for free, or do any of the other things I have been able to do, if the NS coil ONLY lasts 20 years in the ground...who cares?
I mean, look at Laser's topic here....3 months and counting right? "Oh that is just a galvanic reaction and it will eat up the materials in a few days." Well, we now know that is not correct. What if his device runs a year? 2 years? At what point will folks say....wow, I guess that really is something?
With my engineering background I am a results oriented kind of guy. I don't care much what something was designed to do, or it is supposed to do, I want to know what it can do.
I like how these "smart" academics always come up with something like...."Well there is salt in the earth and that explains it." Really? Not to me is doesn't. Does he have a power system that will do this for this long? If not, why not?
Anyway, thanks for trying Rose. Just remember, we can enjoy what these devices can do and we can most likely improve upon that with some experimentation and research. That is more than enough for me.
Bill
Hi Bill. You're a sweet thing. And more to the point - You're right. I had a really good day - on campus - where we found a STRONG negative value - and I had the real pleasure of seeing the surprise this evoked. It's small inroads and I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE we'll get there. I was just chasing some negative demons away this morning. They tend to crowd me out in the early part of the day. As for that Professor. I've only spoken to ONE. I intend reaching a whole lot more. Even if they deafen me with those 'slammed phones'. I've managed 10 years and climbing - of this response. I guess I'll manage a few more.
Thanks Don - for trying that number with distilled water. Frankly - the argument with salt is still spurious - provided only that there's NO EXTRA salts added. It needs to be a closed system and I'm still arguing that laser's is closed. But, like you say - time will tell.
I feel rather shy to admit this - but that glue on my coil? It's now stuck like it claimed it could. I need to get a grinder to get it off. LOL. The thing is this. Prately's products have a mind of their own. They con you into a sense of disappointment and then outperform when they're not needed. Anyway - a friend of mine has the required to remove all that gunk - and I hope to get that coil finally wound and then do my own tests to my own entire satisfaction. ALSO. I'm going to take Bill's (I think it was?) good advice and wind a second coil around a soft iron bolt and another on an aluminium shaft. I think it was Magneticitist who proposed this last number.
So. Hope springs eternal. And today is the first day of spring. So all is still very appropriate and seasonal and timely. And it would take very much more than the occassional rudness from those insufferably arrogant and excessively self-opinionated amongst our academics - to give up this interminable quarrel I have with them and with thermodynamic laws in general. The REALLY good news is that I've found a campus where they still rely on experimental evidence to determine scientific principle. What a pleasure.
As far as I'm concerned we're fighting a kind of intellectual war - hoping to bring hope to the hopeless. ;D Much needed. LOL
Kindest regards to you Bill, and Don and all
Rosemary
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Who had guessed that, what has already been told on the very first pages? ... Congraz, at least some of you now learned what a galvanic cell is.
I'm afraid you'll need to defer those congratulations for the time being gauschor. I've no intention of learning anything that isn't based on experimental evidence.
Rosemary
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I am still surprised to see post lowering the NS coil as galvanic pile , it is clear that this is not a pile , it doesn't have the shape of it that much is clear , is it a battery well no its not , it dose show reading on a meter but too low to compare to any usable battery , yet it still kicks a motor .
The patent is clear its a electromagnet , its galvanic all right but not a battery .
To me it looks like the perfect oscillator because its physical ... think about it , what happen when you put a load on a JT for Ex it messes up the freq and loads the circuit , a mechanical oscillator has different advantages .
Some of those coil have a big magnetic pull , that is beyond the power of most JT , but we don't harvest this part yet , the pickup coil on the outside of the NS coil (the secondary ) needs to be improved , i also wonder since the original NS coil of many many turns really dose obey the transformer turn ratio ratio , because the coil is also the magnet test are needed , i would start at one turn of fat wire , and put loads on it not meters , a small led often reveal more then any meters in the world.
Mark
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No interest/discussion on the effects/results of core saturation?
A couple more thoughts on *data*.....
So you can make an unloaded, low friction/size/weight rotor spin.
Just how much *work* is actually being done?
What is the *data* on the rotor?
1) dimensions
2) weight
3) bearings
4) *rpms*
5) **horsepower output of rotor**
#5 - horsepower output of the rotor - is now your important data point, rather than watts from the 'air battery'.
1 horsepower = 745 watts
Now compare this device - NS coil - to your - 'air battery':
The NS coil has introduced many more losses/inefficiencies into the system than the 'air battery'
A few examples:
- losses due to the resistance of the coil windings (heat/ohms)
- core losses
- airgap to the rotor
- bearing losses
- weight of the rotor
- air friction losses of rotor
- losses harnessing output of rotor
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Captain:
I find it interesting that you are talking about the losses supposedly associated with the NS coil while at the same time ignoring one very important detail.
Input Energy=0
Bill
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No interest/discussion on the effects/results of core saturation?
A couple more thoughts on *data*.....
So you can make an unloaded, low friction/size/weight rotor spin.
Just how much *work* is actually being done?
What is the *data* on the rotor?
1) dimensions
2) weight
3) bearings
4) *rpms*
5) **horsepower output of rotor**
#5 - horsepower output of the rotor - is now your important data point, rather than watts from the 'air battery'.
1 horsepower = 745 watts
Now compare this device - NS coil - to your - 'air battery':
The NS coil has introduced many more losses/inefficiencies into the system than the 'air battery'
A few examples:
- losses due to the resistance of the coil windings (heat/ohms)
- core losses
- airgap to the rotor
- bearing losses
- weight of the rotor
- air friction losses of rotor
- losses harnessing output of rotor
I wonder if these questions wouldn't perhaps be best answered if you just did your own experiments? That way you could inform us all - rather than the other way around. And that way you'll get all the answers you appear to so urgently require.
You see, it's one thing to conduct the tests and an entirely different thing to lean back in an armchair and speculate. And what I find particularly tough to digest is the emphasis you apply to precisely those aspects of the test that are - at this stage - premature and somewhat irrelevant. What we're looking to here is the evident continued current from a variation of the nathan stubblefield battery - without the evident input of any energies at all. I think when these facts are established then we'll all be in a good position to take these tests further. Meanwhile - to satisfy your need to establish these numbers - then, again. DO THE TESTS. And then perhaps you can oblige us all and give us the results of those tests.
Meanwhile I agree with Pirate. There are more than a few Captains to this ship. Don, Bill and Ted to name a few. I rather think we should delegate you to the ranks here Hook. At least until you can show us some experimental evidence of your actual interests. I think like me we are both in need of guidance rather than otherwise.
Rosemary
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Input Energy=0
Hello Bill.
Input Energy = the volts/amps provided from the galvanic reaction > 0
Evidence of that is provided by Don:
reading:
Volts Time Day Amps
.927V 7:05PM D1
.775V 10:15PM D1 9mA
.658V 6:44AM D2 6mA
.586V 7:23PM D2 3mA
.505V 7:51AM D3 1mA
.501V 6:26PM D3 1mA
.512V 11:20PM D3 1mA
.350V 7:40AM D4 .5mA
skipped Day 5
.300V 6:52PM D6 .2mA
After taking the plastic off of my coil and letting it dry for one day
.0V 7:30AM D8 0mA
And one point I was trying to make was that I see the 'air battery' as a better pursuit over the NS coil because of the many losses I mentioned.
The other is that it would be useful to all of you to provide more data, like DonL has.
Isn't the rpm of the rotor of primary concern/interest yet no where is that detail given?
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Hello Bill.
Input Energy = the volts/amps provided from the galvanic reaction > 0
Evidence of that is provided by Don:
And one point I was trying to make was that I see the 'air battery' as a better pursuit over the NS coil because of the many losses I mentioned.
The other is that it would be useful to all of you to provide more data, like DonL has.
Isn't the rpm of the rotor of primary concern/interest yet no where is that detail given?
Once again, I respectfully disagree. Those numbers posted by Don are OUTPUT numbers not INPUT. Input to the rotor system yes, but output from the NS coil to which you have assigned these loss figures. You are talking apples and oranges here.
The primary device is the coil. The rotor is just Lasersaber's make/break design. I plan on using a transistor on my next one to see what happens. No matter what system is used, the coil itself remains the same.
Input still = 0.
Bill
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I haven't posted much lately because I didn't have anything new and exciting to show.
But because everyone is talking about the water and salt I decided to post this.
My 2nd one layer coil: a layer of cotton on core, one layer gal. steel wire, a layer of cotton, one layer bare copper wire, a layer of cotton, a layer of plastic wrap on the outside. NO SALT. Just Tap Water.
reading:
Volts Time Day Amps
.927V 7:05PM D1
.775V 10:15PM D1 9mA
.658V 6:44AM D2 6mA
.586V 7:23PM D2 3mA
.505V 7:51AM D3 1mA
.501V 6:26PM D3 1mA
.512V 11:20PM D3 1mA
.350V 7:40AM D4 .5mA
skipped Day 5
.300V 6:52PM D6 .2mA
After taking the plastic off of my coil and letting it dry for one day
.0V 7:30AM D8 0mA
Next time I will use distilled water.
DonL
It's been 3 1/2 days since I posted the above message.
My coil has been drying all that time.
Still no voltage or amps.
BUT THERE IS MAGNETIC ACTIVITY.
My coil can still turn a compass.
Now how do you supposed that is happening?
I thought someone said there has to be volts and amps to generate magnetism in a coil?
"My 2nd one layer coil: a layer of cotton on core, one layer gal. steel wire, a layer of cotton, one layer bare copper wire, a layer of cotton"
DonL
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BUT THERE IS MAGNETIC ACTIVITY.
My coil can still turn a compass.
Now how do you supposed that is happening?
Your iron wire and possibly your core. Even if your wire was high iron low carbon,which Im sure its not,you would still have some remanence. The common galvanized steel wire is mainly a steel alloy which can become permanently magnetized even with low ma's. A rebar core will do the same as its another higher carbon steel.
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Your iron wire and possibly your core. Even if your wire was high iron low carbon,which Im sure its not,you would still have some remanence. The common galvanized steel wire is mainly a steel alloy which can become permanently magnetized even with low ma's. A rebar core will do the same as its another higher carbon steel.
I have a ferrite core with this build.
I didn't know ferrite would hold magnetism that long.
DonL
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I didn't know ferrite would hold magnetism that long.
Depends on if its a soft or hard ferrite. Hard ferrites have high remanence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_%28magnet%29
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To DonL and all....hi I've been testing various bolts and pieces of steel wire .......I use a magnet suspended by a very fine thread ....it self aligns with the earths field......it seems that every piece (bolt or wire) as I bring it close to the magnet .....the magnet will rotate to align with the end of the piece........one direction for one end the other direction for the other end.....it seems to me that any piece of steel is polarized...when I approach the magnet I come from the east ...then the west....the same end of the peice always attracts the same pole of the magnet.....is this maybe the result of the manufacturing process?.....and does the left hand rule for electromagnets apply to NS coils?
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some other testes showed that by winding one layer of steel ,layer of cotton, one layer bare stranded copper....with starts and ends at each layer.....(instead of continous wire like Lasersaber).....1st layer of steel,1 start ,1 finish...2nd layer of copper 1start, 1finish...and so on...test each layer copper + steel-.....each layer has approx. same voltage.....hook them in series and the voltage increases......I built 2 coils (same amount of wire and cotton).... 1 like Lasersaber (continous)....the other with starts and ends...Lasers, read .5v....Individual reads .5v for each layer ....added the individuals by hooking in series .98v....there were 3 layers of steel and copper in each coil ...why wouldn't the 3, .5v layers add up to 1.5v,..instead of .98v..........also the magnetic effect seemed about the same for both coils.........thanx for any input .....shylo
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shylow:
Interesting, 3 coils in one. That is a cool idea. The only thing I can think of to explain them not adding up fully to 3 times the single coil is that possibly, if the wire lengths are not exactly alike, maybe they are out of phase in some way with the single core? I really don't know.
Bill
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Hi Bill thanx for the reply....1 thing I did notice is when winding....the steel is tighter than the copper .........steel is solid whereas the copper is strands..........so more steel than copper....also the steel is a little bit heavier guage than the copper strands........because I twisted the strands in order to try and get it equal.....also the voltages between each layer were close but not identical~.002v...........also the continuos build is a week older than the layered build..... maybe that's a contributing factor as well...............shylo
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shylow:
Also consider that, if you are winding your "separate" coils by the layer, the outside layers will be larger in diameter and will therefore have more wire than the inner layer or layers. Just another thought as to what might be happening here. This would create different inductance and resistance on the different coil layers.
Bill
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Its funny as I was winding the coils I was cutting the cloth progresively longer, for the growing diameter ,but it never occured to me that the windings were getting longer...........little things like this that I really appreciate...........I might have realized it eventually.....but thanks to you it's instant............thats what makes these forums' so great...........thanks again Bill..........shylo
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Shylow:
You are welcome. Hey, I just thought of that myself after reading your post over again so...it is not like I knew it all along, ha ha.
Bill
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I approach the magnet I come from the east ...then the west....the same end of the peice always attracts the same pole of the magnet.....is this maybe the result of the manufacturing process?.
I would think the earths magnetic field is involved with this. Ive taken a bare small laminated electrical steel core and the compass barely moves. Ive taken a much larger one and it moves it significantly. When I reversed the orientation of the core it reversed the east west. This was all without using a magnet.
why wouldn't the 3, .5v layers add up to 1.5v,..instead of .98v
Im thinking each one had its own charge. When connected together they added. The question is will it stay that way over time once it reaches its balance. Another thing is the stranded wire. Wires that run close together in parallel have capacitance. More wires in parallel with stranded wire may have given you more charge. The same setup should be done with solid wire with approximately the same amount of circular mills as the stranded wire has. That might tell us something.
Seeing how 3 separate groups of stranded wire were not continuously in parallel,not each individual strand connected together to the other strands,that may account for the voltage drop.
Ive been pondering a different way for a secondary using stacked split ring iron toroids which could be wired up with just cotton and copper or with the iron wire also. Dont really know if a closed toroid would be better but lots of different ways to play with it. Inserting cotton or something else that might help charge into the closed toroid center is something to think about. Different ways of wiring this up. A cradle made from a laminated steel transformer core cut in half attached to the poles of the core would make stacking fairly easy. That should induce the magnetic field into the iron toroids. Each one could be wired separately and then tied together. Even a copper wire toroid might be used. The flow of the current and magnetic field off the Ns primary coil would cut the copper at right angles in this configuration. Fun stuff!!
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shylow:
Also consider that, if you are winding your "separate" coils by the layer, the outside layers will be larger in diameter and will therefore have more wire than the inner layer or layers. Just another thought as to what might be happening here. This would create different inductance and resistance on the different coil layers.
Bill
To prove this start with equal lengths of wire.
Then as the coil gets larger (fatter) there will be the same amount of wire per layer, just not as many turns.
I'm not sure of the effect this will have so maybe only try 2-3 layers.
DonL
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Your iron wire and possibly your core. Even if your wire was high iron low carbon,which Im sure its not,you would still have some remanence. The common galvanized steel wire is mainly a steel alloy which can become permanently magnetized even with low ma's. A rebar core will do the same as its another higher carbon steel.
So you're implying LaserSaber could have created a permanent magnet using Galvanized steel wire around an iron core?
Then the question would be how long will LaserSaber's newly created magnet last?
DonL
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Sorry to move this post from the data logging thread but I guess no one is looking there.
You will all have to step into the "way back" machine to remember this post from last November.
on November 30, 2009, 07:53:05 PM]
==============================================================
OK ALL,
Yesterday I posted I would do a experiment, the idea is to show which electrodes interact the best picking up earth currents, and the results are surprising.
I used a COPPER as the North and positave electrode.
Aluminium, Copper, Steel and Magnesium coated rod.
Copper Positave and Aluminium produced the best results
AT REST MOVEMENT ANALOG
POSITIVE TEST METAL V DMM V DMM OBSERVATIONS
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COPPER MAGNESIUM = 36.0mv 71.0mv needle slight movement
COPPER STEEL = -2.9mv 40.0mv needle not moveing
COPPER COPPER = -20mv -10mv needle not moveing
COPPER ALUMININUM = 80mv 198mv needle swinging wildly back and forth
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Results =
1st Copper as Positave, Alumininun as Negative produces best results
2nd Copper as Positave, Mag as negative
coper and coper, copper and steel = zilch
My test photo below showing the setup
Tiny Videos following below this post
jim
===============================================================
Question:
Were all the pieces of metal used in this experiment the same size?
I'm referring to surface area and not just length.
I've never seen where copper and aluminum produced the best effect.
So if one of the pieces of metal was larger (more surface area) than the other, then that might be an important fact that we could try to exploit.
DonL
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Hi to all .......did some more testing today....wound 4 coils...all.... core, cotton,steel,cotton,copper,cotton....1 layer steel ,1layer cotton,1layer copper......4 different cores... soft steel,galv steel,layered aluminum....and then a "d" battery with the outer casing removed...so zinc core...all the readings were pretty much identical....within 2-3 mv of each other....all the copper was stranded wire ....so I wound a 5th coil but with solid copper wire,...same steel wire ~same guage, 1 layer of each ....the readings were twice as high.....so stranded wire isn't as good as solid(single strand)....connected all coils in series got 3.5v...connected an led from the "shake-a-lite" ...it lights brightly ,but the volts drop to 2.6 and hold ,dimmely lit...it seems if your looking for voltage just wind 1 layer of each on an 8" core ~ 3/8 dia.....this should give you ~1v........wind 12 of them you will have 12 volts....btw the magnetic effect is very small on these one layer windings (1steel,1copper)....but it is there....also I think the reasons that bolts and wire seem to be polarized is because of the thread pattern and the twist pattern............just thought I would share my findings .......shylo
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So you're implying LaserSaber could have created a permanent magnet using Galvanized steel wire around an iron core?
Then the question would be how long will LaserSaber's newly created magnet last?
If its plain steel with high carbon then yes if hes not reversing polarity, which I think hes doing as far as the self generating magnet. A steel wire with only one polarity will become magnetized eventually. That why high iron and low carbon is better for a magnetic collapse and minimum remanence. He has a good core so not much problem on that. As long as enough magnetic field collapse is generated to keep the rotor moving, I would think it should run for years as a self generating electromagnet, and thats regardless of any volts or amps.
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IotaYodi:
If what you say is correct, then one could use a core of say neo, and have it run until the core de-magnetizes which should take about 600 years from my reading. Is this what you are saying here?
I don't think a permanent magnet would work for this as many have tried a magnetic core on the JT circuit with no success.
It is entirely possible that I did not understand what you were saying so, if that is the case, forgive me.
For Laser to get the pulses, the coil has to magnetize, and then de-magnetize very quickly no? This is what led me to want to try a good hi permeability ferrite for my core on my next one. Kind of like the JT/Bedini circuit.
Bill
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Hi to all .......did some more testing today....wound 4 coils...all.... core, cotton,steel,cotton,copper,cotton....1 layer steel ,1layer cotton,1layer copper......4 different cores... soft steel,galv steel,layered aluminum....and then a "d" battery with the outer casing removed...so zinc core...all the readings were pretty much identical....within 2-3 mv of each other....all the copper was stranded wire ....so I wound a 5th coil but with solid copper wire,...same steel wire ~same guage, 1 layer of each ....the readings were twice as high.....so stranded wire isn't as good as solid(single strand)....connected all coils in series got 3.5v...connected an led from the "shake-a-lite" ...it lights brightly ,but the volts drop to 2.6 and hold ,dimmely lit...it seems if your looking for voltage just wind 1 layer of each on an 8" core ~ 3/8 dia.....this should give you ~1v........wind 12 of them you will have 12 volts....btw the magnetic effect is very small on these one layer windings (1steel,1copper)....but it is there....also I think the reasons that bolts and wire seem to be polarized is because of the thread pattern and the twist pattern............just thought I would share my findings .......shylo
I've neglected this thread together with my experiments here. But intend to make up for this - but not today as I've got a million things to do. But shylo - thanks very much for this. Indeed. Plenty here to try and puzzle through. You've obviously established a wide range of parameters. Much needed.
Kindest regards
Rosemary
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Is this what you are saying here?
No. Im saying the standard galvanized or un-galvanized iron wire being used will not work indefinitely unless there is a reverse polarity applied to it stopping the permanent magnetization. In my mind even with reverse polarity, the higher carbon content will not give you the higher magnetic field intensity on collapse as with low carbon iron which would diminish the amount of current in the copper. From what Ive read 1018 low carbon steel has been the most common and is probably what Ns had in his bolt and possibly his wire. Lasers core is even superior to that. Something I question is how much reverse current compared to forward current is in the copper when its magnetic field collapses from its larger reverse voltage spike?
Standard Ac coils and devices use added silicone steel laminated cores for its superior collapse and intensity. But even the lamination's are high iron/low carbon with silicone added. That itself would influence me to use no less than 1018 steel for the core and the wire.
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My 3rd coil is same as 2nd coil except I used Distilled Water:
one layer coil: a layer of cotton on core, one layer gal. steel wire, a layer of cotton, one layer bare copper wire, a layer of cotton.
I wrapped the coil in plastic immediately after removing from water to keep it wet.
readings:
.100V 3:12PM D1 1mA 9/26/2010
.015V 8:22PM D1 .5mA Very little magnetic field - compass just moves 1/4 turn.
.015V 12:05AM D1 .5mA
.015V 7:23AM D2 .5mA
I took the plastic off, water dripped off of the coil and the readings jumped to these.
.480V 7:32AM D2 2.6mA
.500V 11:07AM D3 1.1mA Added plastic back now.
Conclusion: the coil was too wet. I needed to let it drip a while before wrapping in plastic.
Even these new readings are a lot lower than with tap water.
Still almost no magnetic activity against a compass with distilled water.
DonL
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My 3rd coil is same as 2nd coil except I used Distilled Water:
one layer coil: a layer of cotton on core, one layer gal. steel wire, a layer of cotton, one layer bare copper wire, a layer of cotton.
I wrapped the coil in plastic immediately after removing from water to keep it wet.
readings:
.100V 3:12PM D1 1mA 9/26/2010
.015V 8:22PM D1 .5mA Very little magnetic field - compass just moves 1/4 turn.
.015V 12:05AM D1 .5mA
.015V 7:23AM D2 .5mA
I took the plastic off, water dripped off of the coil and the readings jumped to these.
.480V 7:32AM D2 2.6mA
.500V 11:07AM D3 1.1mA Added plastic back now.
Conclusion: the coil was too wet. I needed to let it drip a while before wrapping in plastic.
Even these new readings are a lot lower than with tap water.
Still almost no magnetic activity against a compass with distilled water.
DonL
I think that what @lasersaber did was to wrap the wires side by side instead of one over the other.
I could be wrong though.
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I think that what @lasersaber did was to wrap the wires side by side instead of one over the other.
I could be wrong though.
Yes he did but I don't have cotton insulated copper wire so I did it like this.
You'd have to look at my other posted test results to get the whole picture of what I'm doing.
This is my 3rd coil test where I'm testing distilled water vs 2nd coil tap water.
DonL
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I'm testing distilled water vs 2nd coil tap water.
Tap water is not pure water - it has impurities, chlorine, etc in it.
The impurities conduct the electricity, not the water.
Pure (distilled) water is a very poor conductor as these impurities have been removed.
The number of molecules of water that are dissociated is practically negligible, making the distilled water a weak electrons conductor.
Salt water is the most conductive.
When salt is added (NaCl) to the system, the conductivity of the system increases considerably.
The water not only dissolves the salt, as well as it dissociates the salt molecule.
The elementary sodium (Na) presents an excess electron and the chloride (Cl) has a strong affinity for electrons.
Consequently, after dissociation, the sodium loses an electron to the chloride, forming Cl- and Na+ ions.
The presence of these ions increases the conductivity of the water considerably.
The positive ions (Na+) migrate to the negative electrode (linked to the pole - of the battery)
and the negatives (Cl-) migrate to the positive electrodes (linked to the pole + of the pile).
The conductivity of the aqueous solution water/salt is proportional to the ions concentration in the solution.
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Pure (distilled) water is a very poor conductor as these impurities have been removed.
The number of molecules of water that are dissociated is practically negligible, making the distilled water a weak electrons conductor.
Salt water is the most conductive.
When salt is added (NaCl) to the system, the conductivity of the system increases considerably.
I know distilled water isn't good to use but I wanted to prove that to others on this thread.
Next I will use salt water.
Should I use a saline solution (used for the eyes) or just add salt to water and mix it real good?
DonL
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Hi all ....I've been doing more exp...decided I would measure voltage as I wound coil to see if cross over (wires twisting over each other) made a big difference..... turns out that I can get same voltage out of 2" of straight bi-filar winding....as I can 3 layers ....2" versus 10' ....plus I get more micro amps .............can anybody explain this to me?........seems to me winding coils is a waste of time .....also made 5 of these straight coils ...hooked them in series ...they added .....plus the copper I used was off of a solenoid from a chev starter....so it was enameled....started with 2" length of enameled, wrapped in cotton,twisted galv steel around it.... still have to try hooking parallel to see if I can get the amps up........make sure to burn off the varnish .....get it good and clean ,only where connections are being made.........give it a try .........shylo
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Hi everybody,
I just wanted to let you all know that I had to take down the live video cam as I had to use the computer it was hooked up to for other things. I will be buying a new wireless webcam in the near future. I should have a much better quality video stream.
The motor is still running. It's been going for over 100 days now.
I wound a new large coil with 0.56mm Double Cotton Covered Copper Wire. It does produce good voltage and over 30 milliamps but it has a very poor electromagnetic effect. It can hardly even get it to spin a small light rotor. I used about 500 feet of wire on it. I have had an idea for awhile now that larger gauge wire might work better. I am going to test this idea in the near future.
I have made some really amazing discoveries with NS coils working and Daniel Mcfarland Cook coils in the last few weeks. I will post updates in the near future.
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Hi everybody,
I just wanted to let you all know that I had to take down the live video cam as I had to use the computer it was hooked up to for other things. I will be buying a new wireless webcam in the near future. I should have a much better quality video stream.
The motor is still running. It's been going for over 100 days now.
I wound a new large coil with 0.56mm Double Cotton Covered Copper Wire. It does produce good voltage and over 30 milliamps but it has a very poor electromagnetic effect. It can hardly even get it to spin a small light rotor. I used about 500 feet of wire on it. I have had an idea for awhile now that larger gauge wire might work better. I am going to test this idea in the near future.
I have made some really amazing discoveries with NS coils working and Daniel Mcfarland Cook coils in the last few weeks. I will post updates in the near future.
Hi Laser. Thanks for the update. Interesting point regarding the thicker wire. Are you using the copper as a secondary? Or a winding with only copper? Can't quite understand this.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Copper wire beside the iron wire. Just like a normal NS coil.
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Hi guys, I've been reading here but posting nothing. Mainly because I haven't yet got my coil wound. Tardy hardly describes it. ::) But I've finally got the glue taken off and I'll hopefully get the ends done this weekend. But have been really busy with one thing and another.
I'm intrigued to see that there's a growing consensus on the use of thicker wire. I've long thought that the inductive/conductive value of any material depends on the mass associated with the material as well as the atomic structure. So - to me it makes perfect sense. Interesting to see the extent of the improvement in the voltages that Shylo shows between stranded and solid.
Also Shylo - very interesting about the inherent magnetic bias of the steel. But I'm with Bill on this Iota. I don't think that there's any remanence in Laser's number as the two switches work in antiphase and that would need two induced fields. A permanent field would rather work against this. I'd have thought.
Don. Thanks for doing that distilled water test. I'm rather sorry to learn that we need those trace elements which are available in tap water as this supports the battery argument - partially. But I'm still holding out for a closed system. And I'll do a test without any water. I don't actually hold out much hope here - but at least I'll find out. ;D
Such an engrossing subject.
Regards,
Rosemary
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By the way, Shylo. I couldn't understand your last post at all. Are you suggesting that it's feasible to get to 12 volts? That would be amazing. But I'm not sure what you're describing with the winding thing. I sort of get it that we can do without the wire? And just use solid sheeting? Sorry if this is way off. Could I impose on you to explain this again?
Kindest as ever,
Rosemary
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Hi Rose....and to all I was a bit premature earlier ....Ijust made .5v .5ma with 20 inches of galv wire ,20 inches of stranded uninsulated wire,....no coils, just straight wires twisted around each other with cotton seperating them....wetted with salt water.....wire was ~20guage.......I made 10 of these 2" long each .........5 in series,5 in parallel.....tried with thicker wire #'s were way low....tried with enameled wire #'s were higher than thick,but still low,.....laser .56mm ,what guage is this?....1 set of 2" length of galv&bare stranded gives .75v & 8000micro amps ....the amps seem to add but the volts only add in series alone....tried multiple arrangements.seems galv core ,layer of cotton,layer of copper ,but only single wire of galv as core............ sorry I'm not very good at descibing things ...shylo
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I can make 3 identical strings .....each string consists of 2" of galv wire ,2"of bare copper stranded , seperated by a layer of cotton,....wetted with salt water......each string individually will read the same ..usually .75v 3000 micro amps............hook in series ...~2.00-2.10v................hook in parallel..........8250 micro amps..............but I can only increase one or the other not both ......is there any way to make them both add.........maybe some kind of transformer............shylo
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I'm rather sorry to learn that we need those trace elements which are available in tap water as this supports the battery argument
In my experience distilled water works just fine. If you really want to see something amazing use rubbing alcohol!
I am still worried that people are too worried about voltage and milliamps. What you really need to do is test is how far away can place a compass and still pulse the needle and make it move on command.
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I wound a new large coil with 0.56mm
Thats about awg 23. You have around 20 ohms of resistance at 1000ft. An awg of #16 is about 4 ohms and #14 is close to 2.5 ohms. The Ampacity of awg 23 is less than one amp. Larger wire is a must if you plan on having any kind of amps. Apparently the amount of milliamps you have is not enough to produce a strong enough electromagnet field in the core or wire.
I don't think that there's any remanence in Laser's number
As long as there is an alternating opposing field there wont be much even with higher carbon steel wire. What you lose with high carbon steel wire though is the intensity of the field collapse.
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Hi Lasersaber...... let me first say I find your exp. facinating ...I tried your exp. and found the magnetic effect to be very weak....perhaps its because I'm using sub level materials (no cotton covered wire).......the best magnetic effect I could get was from about 4" away ....I thought if I could increase the v/a,... the magnetic effect would increase.........also the iron, or steel core ,affects the movement of the compass....I use a mag suspendid from a fine thread.....but a ceramic mag will cause deflection from as far as 16" away...there's something here , definately...Magnetic Drive is where the answer lies.........I'll keep looking ...as I hope everybody else will...........thanxs for your work....shylo
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Hi Shylo. Still having HUGE difficulties here.
Hi Rose....and to all I was a bit premature earlier ....I just made .5v .5ma with 20 inches of galv wire ,20 inches of stranded uninsulated wire,....no coils, just straight wires twisted around each other with cotton seperating them....wetted with salt water.....wire was ~20guage
Still with you at this point. Here's how I understand it. You've got one length of 20 inches of galvanised iron wire. Then you've got another length of 20 inches of stranded uninsulated copper? wire.
I made 10 of these 2" long each
Shylow? What did you make 2" long? Do you mean 20 inches?
5 in series,5 in parallel
Is this 5 of only copper in series or 5 of copper and 5 of iron mix in series and in parallel. And if you have those open junctions at the end of each wire then when you put them in parallel they're also in series. Surely? Effectively they're both in series AND in parallel? Am I missing something? Or do you join the copper to the copper and the iron to the iron? Then join those junctions copper to copper and iron to iron to parallel them? Or do you join iron to copper?
tried with thicker wire #'s were way low....tried with enameled wire #'s were higher than thick,but still low,.....laser .56mm ,what guage is this?....1 set of 2" length of galv&bare stranded gives .75v & 8000micro amps ....the amps seem to add but the volts only add in series alone....tried multiple arrangements.seems galv core ,layer of cotton,layer of copper ,but only single wire of galv as core............ sorry I'm not very good at descibing things ...shylo
More of the same. 2 inches? Did you mean this? Or do you mean 20 inches? And you're only using a single wire of galvanised wire for the core? Effectively you're wrapping everything around wires? Not sure of their length.
Shylo - when I see the range of your tests I get it that you're looking to answer a whole lot of questions. And I'm absolutely with you. They're really good questions. But the problem is that I'm not following your solutions and I really would LOVE to. Please see if you can, perhaps, just draw what you mean - if it's a bore to write it. Sorry to impose on you like this. I'm entirely satisfied that I'm the only one who doesn't understand you and that's simply because I'm stupid. But I keep wrestling here and am dying to get into your tests better. The more so as I am very aware of your experimental talents.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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In my experience distilled water works just fine.
How interesting is THAT? !!! ;D Laser, if this works with distilled water then IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT A BATTERY. That's HUGE. Does it perhaps not work as well? Don tried it and found negligible results. But I see your point. The voltage measures have little to do with the magnetic properties of the coil. And this is what 'turns' the rotor? Of course.
Good news indeed. Now I'm 'refired' - if that's a word. LOL. ;D DELIGHTED to see that your rig is still rumbling on. I'm looking forward to finding out how long it needs to run before it's considered anomalous. I never realised you had it on permanent display. Can you give us a link when you get it up again?
GREAT STUFF.
Rosemary
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Lasersaber:
Glad to see you posting. Very intriguing tip about the alcohol. When you get a chance, can you elaborate on your findings using this? I am very interested.
Bill
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How interesting is THAT? !!! ;D Laser, if this works with distilled water then IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT A BATTERY. That's HUGE. Does it perhaps not work as well? Don tried it and found negligible results. But I see your point. The voltage measures have little to do with the magnetic properties of the coil. And this is what 'turns' the rotor? Of course.
GREAT STUFF.
Rosemary
The magnetic response I got with distilled water was very little. The coil could just move the compass a little whereas my 2nd coil moved the compass a lot and from 3 inches away.
DonL
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..
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The magnetic response I got with distilled water was very little. The coil could just move the compass a little whereas my 2nd coil moved the compass a lot and from 3 inches away.
DonL
Don - I get it that the response is much stronger with tap water and, as Laser has pointed out - with other mixes. But if there's even 'some' response - enough to keep even a slow rotor turning - then we've got some argument against the coil being a battery. The significance of this is only in as much as the power can then be analysed more unequivocally. If salts are playing a significant part in this rig then I'm not sure that we can even establish a reasonable efficiency - let alone OU.
Here's what I think - for what it's worth. I don't believe it's a typical battery because the addition of water - with or without salts - is cheap and really doable. It means that if we can get the voltage up to something more usable then we've got something that is cleaner and greener than your typical batteries. Always a good thing. If it's a pure galvanic effect wihout the 'salt bridge' number that wiki seems to require - then laser and you and all are forging new science. And the significance then is considerable. But whichever way this falls - to me it's entirely compelling.
I've long argued against electrons being the source of electric current and I realise when I say this that the most of you posting here - subscribe to electron current flow. I'll append my argument against this but would warn you that it's likely to be heavily contended. But what I do subscribe to is that 'dark energy' comprises matter that is invisible only because it is too fast and too small to be detected. And I suspect that magnetic fields actually are the 'hidden form' of this material. I also think that isolated fields of one dimensional magnetic strings hold atoms together in bound three dimensional amalgams. And I wonder if these are the 'things' that move as current - are transferred through space and are measured as energy. If these fields are also the things that 'flow' as current flow - then - provided only that the material is conductive or inductive, theoretically it would be able to induce a current through electromagnetic inductive laws. In effect the potential difference to supply that electric energy - is also in the material of the wire itself. For what ever reason, mainstream science has ignored the mass of the resistors and wires as being a potential energy source and have simply considered them to be 'storage' devices of the electric current delivered by a supply. I also see these and other tests rather disputing that assumption.
Of special interest is that Laser, Shylo, and others all seem to see 'thicker' wire being 'better' - which seems to correspond to the thought that the greater the mass - then the more of that 'something' is then available - regardless. In other words - it does seem to relate to the amount of material in the coil itself.
Regards,
Rosemary
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38315399/MORE-INCONVENIENT-TRUTHS
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to Rose ...20" piece cut into 2" lengths .....wrapped 2" galv in layer of cotton,wrapped copper around this ,wrapped layer of cotton on copper.....wetted with salt water ...only two leads the other ends were buried in the cotton......just trying to find the best combination so I can build a better NS coil....the ones I've built so far ...don't give any better results than these simple 2" strings.....the best I've acheived so far is .6v 2.5ma ....4"straight aluminum wire ~12awg, wrapped in cotton(one end left exposed)...soild 14awg copper 8" coiled around = the 4" 1/4 gap between winds....then another same piece of copper wrapped beside 1st,in the 1/4"gap,then wrapped in cotton and wetted....still lots of exp yet......shylo
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also ...when I hook in series copper is always +,....galv or aluminim -, pos to neg is series,....pos to pos ,neg to neg is parallel....It seems as you go series you loose a little voltage with each additional string eg: .5v +.5v+.5v should be 1.5v.....but is 1.15-1.19v.......and the same goes for parallel(amps)......series for volts........parallel for amps...I don't understand this drop in readings??.......do you need both volts & amps to produce an electro-magnet , or is it one or the other?............shylo
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shylo:
Take a look a your connect points. It does not take hardly any resistance to drop the final value down. I think if you do the math backwards to find the ohms value, it will be fairly close. No connection is perfect. With the small value of E and I, it fits.
thay
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I don't understand this drop in readings??.......do you need both volts & amps to produce an electro-magnet , or is it one or the other?
Anything with resistance that is put into a circuit will have a voltage drop. Current is being pushed by voltage. The current carrying wire must be wound in a tight helix around the core in order to produce an electromagnetic field. The higher the amps the greater the electromagnetic force. Take a used car battery even with a dead cell,Charged up of course, and wind #12 or #10 wire on a 1/2 or 3/4 steel core. You will see the greater effect of current. The 12 volt car battery has hundreds of amps. Use good sense and caution when doing this.
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I must say that there ARE other things than "Standard" current that can produce an "Electromagnetic" field.
From my little knowledge of physics even more so. From the human body to grass blowing in the wind. With 84 Terrawatts of solar energy a day and the worlds consumption around 12 Terrawatts a day,we need to devise ways to use it. Even the 100 volt per 2 vertical meters of the electrostatic field havent been utilized yet. Between the Aether,atmosphere and the Earth, Im surprised nothings been done yet on a large scale. So much power at our fingertips and we cant use it?
I guess I shouldn't have said anything, as I really am offering no useful ideas
All it takes is a few words to turn the light on for someone. Egos and high school ramblings are subject though! lol
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Rosemary Ainslie wrote:
"Don - I get it that the response is much stronger with tap water and, as Laser has pointed out - with other mixes. But if there's even 'some' response - enough to keep even a slow rotor turning - then we've got some argument against the coil being a battery. "
My tap water is filtered a lot.
Next time I'll try "dirtier" water taken before my filters.
DonL
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Guys, I've mentioned this before. I'm not sure how our meters determine the resistance of anything but have been advised that the meter itself applies a small current and it then measures the rate of flow. This effectively means that the the higher the resistance the more 'blocked' is the current flow which then becomes the Ohmage 'measure' of that resistance.
Well. I have some cylindrical magnets - ferrite - very small - I'll try and get a photo up here at some stage but I've left those magnets on campus. In any event, the point is this. I can join those magnets in a string that it's roughly equivalent to an 8 guage wire. And regardless of the 'length' it seems that I can simply NOT measure any resistance at all. In effect a permanent magnet enables the flow of current - and in a cylindrical bar magnet which is the actual construct of that string - then it enables the current flow in either direction. I see this - in the mind's eye - as the applied current running either through or around the flux of those magnets depending on the polarities presented when taking that measurement.
What it seems to show is this. Current flow is not materially 'restricted' in this flow by another magnetic field imposed in that path, so to speak and continues it's path through or around that magnet at an angle of 180 degrees. One magnetic field interacts with another field at an angle of 180 degrees. Could this perhaps be some kind of evidence that current itself simply comprises magnetic fields? If so then here's the proposal.
Resistance would then be a measure of those magnetic fields - inside the material being measured - that is not aligned at an angle of 180 degrees to the applied current flow. Wherever it is that these magnetic fields are situated - whether atomic or extraneous to those atoms - they are then able to 'resist' the 180 degrees interaction from a 'magnetic field' or 'flux field. In other words resistance or Ohmage would actually then be a measure of the magnetic potential of the material itself?
So. When we use two different metals with two different resistances, then there would be a difference in their magnetic conditions and somehow the galvanic effect is exploiting this difference? Maybe? That's certainly the only explanation that I can find that logically explains this. But it's just a thought.
Regards,
Rosemary
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deleted
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Rosemary Ainslie wrote:
"Don - I get it that the response is much stronger with tap water and, as Laser has pointed out - with other mixes. But if there's even 'some' response - enough to keep even a slow rotor turning - then we've got some argument against the coil being a battery. "
My tap water is filtered a lot.
Next time I'll try "dirtier" water taken before my filters.
DonL
Hello Don. If the water is 'dirtier' would it not also hold more to argue it as a standard galvanic effect using the 'salt bridge'? In any event - it's an interesting experiment to replicate - whichever way you cut it. How are the tests going?
Regards,
Rosemary
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And regardless of the 'length' it seems that I can simply NOT measure any resistance at all.
Ferrites are a mixture of ceramic and metals and are only slightly conductive. You simply dont have enough voltage or current in the meter to close the circuit. Even if you did close the circuit your standard meter still may read 0 as the values may be to low for the circuitry to pick up. A permanent magnet of iron or steel will show resistance.
Could this perhaps be some kind of evidence that current itself simply comprises magnetic fields?
Well current is moving charges by standard physics. There are both pos and neg charges. If current is magnetic fields its still interacting with the diamagnetic property's of metals etc: I think theres more than just magnetic fields to charge but it just may be..
Conductivity in water is affected by the presence of inorganic dissolved solids such as chloride, nitrate, sulfate, and phosphate anions (ions that carry a negative charge) or sodium, magnesium, calcium, iron, and aluminum cations {ions that carry a positive charge}. The warmer the water the better the conductivity also.
Question: If we immerse an Ns coil in water should it be negative or positive water? Within a standard electrolyte battery there is a bidirectional flow of pos and neg charges. Outside on the conductor the flow is neg to pos. I would assume the water should be positively charged because of the natural attraction of unlike charges. That should mean less Resistance to the flow. Any comments on this?
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Ferrites are a mixture of ceramic and metals and are only slightly conductive. You simply dont have enough voltage or current in the meter to close the circuit. Even if you did close the circuit your standard meter still may read 0 as the values may be to low for the circuitry to pick up. A permanent magnet of iron or steel will show resistance.
Hello Iota. I dispute this, with respect. Each magnet is cylindrical - plus/minu a 1/4 inch diameter and slightly more than that in length. I read zero resistance in one or in a string of them - regardless of the length. I measure resistance in all other metals that I tested. If the ferrite material in the magnet is blocking the reading then the resistance would be measured to be higher rather than otherwise. If the magnet itself were 'blocking' current flow - then one would simply need to introduce a magnet to switch a circuit off and on. This is clearly not the case. And both options were tested being the small individual magnets and many of them in a string. I'm going to try and get this photographed to show it.
Well current is moving charges by standard physics.
Standard physics requires moving electrons.
There are both pos and neg charges.
Golly. Wiki allows for the flow of electrons. I have read some complicated ideas that the positive current flow is the result of the flow of protons - for goodness sake. If it were that easy to detach protons from the nucleus of an atom we'd be able to achieve miracles of fusion and fission which thus far, still require enormous efforts and usually result in a massive ex or implosion. And if electrons are the charge carriers then it's never been experimentally verified.
Question: If we immerse an Ns coil in water should it be negative or positive water? Within a standard electrolyte battery there is a bidirectional flow of pos and neg charges. Outside on the conductor the flow is neg to pos. I would assume the water should be positively charged because of the natural attraction of unlike charges. That should mean less Resistance to the flow. Any comments on this?
Can't comment because I don't know. We need comment from a chemist perhaps.
Regards
Rosemary
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38315399/MORE-INCONVENIENT-TRUTHS
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If the ferrite material in the magnet is blocking the reading then the resistance would be measured to be higher rather than otherwise
It would be higher. I think your forgetting the conductivity of the ceramic ferrites as well as their materiel though. The electrons are not free to move as in metals. No movement means no flow to complete the circuit. There may be a charge there but that takes a different kind of meter to measure the amount of charge.
http://www.substech.com/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=ionic_and_covalent_bonding
physics requires moving electrons.
As far as my understanding goes it takes the opposite charge or polarity to move them.
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@lasersaber,
I can't see any motor movement on:
http://www.lasersaber.com/public/WebCam/ActiveX1.html
Has the motor stopped or has the video streaming stopped?
Groundloop.
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I just wanted to let you all know that I had to take down the live video cam as I had to use the computer it was hooked up to for other things. I will be buying a new wireless webcam in the near future. I should have a much better quality video stream.
The motor is still running. It's been going for over 100 days now.
I posted this a few pages back. Things sure can get lost in a thread fast. I should post this message on the live video webpage.
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I posted this a few pages back. Things sure can get lost in a thread fast. I should post this message on the live video webpage.
Great stuff Laser. I actually didn't realise you had a live number showing this. So thanks for the link Groundloop.
Regards
Rosemary
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Guys this subject is being 'trashed' on another forum. I thought I'd just post over some of the arguments against this and my reply.
Rosemary:
Like I previously posted, enormous amounts of electrical energy are needed to produce metals like aluminum and magnesium. So aluminum and magnesium are potential components of a battery, just like the components in a lead-acid battery. In other words they contain potential chemical energy that can be transformed into electrical energy. Pirate Bill keeps on thinking that this is all "free" perhaps because he is unaware that massive amounts of electricity were used to make the components of his "earth batteries." The energy comes from the aluminum or magnesium smelter. It takes so much electricity to produce aluminum that they sometimes build hydroelectric power plants that are dedicated to providing power for aluminum smelters.
If you were to take this argument to its logical conclusion - then - in terms of this a natural diamond would have less energy than an artificial diamond. There is no more or less potential energy in a lump of pure copper than there is in a mixed aggregate of the same weight. Nor is more potential energy added to the mix as a result of applied heat or galvanisation or anything else. Mainstream claim that the energy from mass is from the atomic mass. It's just that in a refined state - it's likely to be more useable as required. Bear in mind that the galvanic interaction does not compromise the mass of either the copper or the iron. Theoretically, they'll be there - into infinity. So. Also theoretically - if there's an induction process going on in Laser's rig - which clearly there is, then that too could be there for infinity.
In my experiment, when you take away the water, the chemical reaction stops dead, and then the battery can't output any power. It's akin to draining the electrolyte out of a lead-acid battery.
But this argument also has to be seen in context. Laser claims that the rotor can turn with distilled water. If so, then there is no 'salt bridge' required for the 'galvanic effect' - which is battery related. It probably just works better with the addition of salt. Correspondingly, and confusingly, Bill claims that his rig works best if the sand is dry. In which case one could perhaps argue a 'salt bridge'. But in both instances one only needs to encase the entire coil in some kind of sealed condition - like a sealed battery - and either the slightly moist sand - or the slightly moist atmosphere around the coil - would make both the sand and/or the atmosphere - a third element in that rig. Unlike a sealed battery it would never go flat. That's got to be clean green - and virtually, dare I say it, 'perpetual'.
Also. Regarding your applied math to this general effect - I think you're out by a tad. If you take a battery say with a rating of 12 x ampere hours - then what the manufacturer is saying that it will deliver 12 amps for 1 hour or 1 amp for 12 hours - or whatever combination required between these numbers. So. 12 amps x 12volts = 144 watts. Then x 60 seconds, x 60 minutes x 1 hour = 518,400.00 joules. We can't yet quite rate Laser's rig - but - just to follow general protocol and your example of applying numbers here. Let's say that the rotor is turning with a ridiculously conservative dissipation of 0.2 watts. 0.2 x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 24 hours x 115 days = approximately 1,987,200.00 joules. Technically it's alreadly out performed your standard lead acid battery. AND it's NOT going flat. AND that was an absurdly small wattage figure at kick off.
The truth of the matter is that the concept of a battery supply source also carries the concept of a depletable source of energy. That much has yet to be proven in either Bill's rig or in Lasersabers. Frankly I think they're both carving out some interesting history for us all.
Regards
Rosemary
edit. Sorry the math was out. I've amended.
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Laser claims that the rotor can turn with distilled water.
Was that before he soaked it in salt water? There would still be salt in the coil if he did that first. Also is the distilled water picking up ions from the copper and iron?
Within most solid materials a current arises from the flow of electrons, which is called electronic conduction. In all conductors, semiconductors, and many insulated materials only electronic conduction exists, and the electrical conductivity is strongly dependent on the number of electrons available to participate to the conduction process. Most metals are extremely good conductors of electricity, because of the large number of free electrons that can be excited in an empty and available energy state.
In water and ionic materials or fluids a net motion of charged ions can occur. This phenomenon produces an electric current and is called ionic conduction. Electrical conductivity is defined as the ratio between the current density and the electric field intensity.
Someone correct me if im wrong here. If the magnetic rotor produces enough v/a on the copper,and the reed switches keep the rotor spinning,then wet or dry it should continue to cycle back and forth as a self sustaining electromagnet.
The truth of the matter is that the concept of a battery supply source also carries the concept of a depletable source of energy
Except for the Earth. As long as the Sun shines and the Earth revolves the power will be there.
Bill claims that his rig works best if the sand is dry
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His setup is a standard earth battery and not a coil. Knowing where Bill lives there is still moisture below ground. If its too wet there is a voltage drop. I think this applys to both the Ns coil and standard earth battery.
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Was that before he soaked it in salt water? There would still be salt in the coil if he did that first. Also is the distilled water picking up ions from the copper and iron?
It intrigues me that - regardless of what an experimentalist claims - the readers of that experiment impose their own 'take' on the claim. Is that even scientific? My take is that when someone writes something then that's what they mean. What Laser told us was words to the effect 'It works fine with distilled water.' There are NO qualifications. You're making assumptions Iota. And as regards the 'ions'. If there are 'ions' around - here and there - then one must surely accept that such are readily available either in the water - or in the metals - EVERYWHERE. If these are being used? So what? I still argue they're part of that 3rd element. The ONLY condition that would then still confirm that this is a 'battery' would be if the metals 'rust' into an unusable powder. I'm reasonably sure that the only metal that can rust in laser's rig is the iron. But the confusions then come from the observed fact that Bill's rigs do NOT rust. 2 years and climbing and - NO SIGHT OF RUST? How then can you attempt to argue an electrolytic process?
MileHigh also mentions that the deep sea oil rigs are protected by electrical currents imposed on the metal - that somehow prevent corrosion from sea water. I would propose that - since we know there's a flow of current - then perhaps this is the reason that Bill's coils stay pristine - over time - and regardless of the weather. And perhaps, by the same token - this is the reason that Laser's rig shows no further sign of rust. And again. Evidence of continuing rust would be the only actual proof that there's a 'cost' to this supply of energy.
Within most solid materials a current arises from the flow of electrons,...
This has NEVER been proved. No-one has ever seen 'spare' electrons in any circuitry. All atoms' electrons in and outside a battery are always fully accounted for.
...which is called electronic conduction.
Never heard the term. I've only heard of induction or conduction - depending on the material and the application - and electricity and electrical current flow. With respect I'm not sure what electronic conduction means - if anything.
In all conductors, semiconductors, and many insulated materials only electronic conduction exists, and the electrical conductivity is strongly dependent on the number of electrons available to participate to the conduction process. Most metals are extremely good conductors of electricity, because of the large number of free electrons that can be excited in an empty and available energy state.
Again, and with the utmost respect - this is nonsense. There are NO OBSERVED PROVEN 'FREE ELECTRONS' ANYWHERE AT ALL - least of all in the energy levels of atoms - which I think is what you're trying to refer to here.
Someone correct me if im wrong here. If the magnetic rotor produces enough v/a on the copper,and the reed switches keep the rotor spinning,then wet or dry it should continue to cycle back and forth as a self sustaining electromagnet.
Really Iota. Nothing unusual here? I would have thought that the concpet of a self sustaining electromagnet would be really HOT news. LOL.
Except for the Earth. As long as the Sun shines and the Earth revolves the power will be there.
I'm not sure that the earth can be considered to be a battery? But if it is - then by the same token - the only measurable flux field is a magnetic field and I'm not sure if it's sunshine that powers that 'spin'?
His setup is a standard earth battery and not a coil.
That - Iota - is your opinion only, based as it is on the assumption that there's anything at all that is standard about any of these two rigs. As I've said - unless and until all the iron in all those coils finally OXIDISE into an unsuable powder - then it remains unproven to be battery.
Knowing where Bill lives there is still moisture below ground. If its too wet there is a voltage drop. I think this applys to both the Ns coil and standard earth battery.
Interestingly - Bill's rig show NO RUST AT ALL. What do you make of that? With or without water - with or without ions? What exactly is depleting? Where is there any evidence of a 'cost' if the materials last and last? Where does the actual ENERGY come from that is lighting his LED's?
Rosemary
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38315399/MORE-INCONVENIENT-TRUTHS
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First of all, i hardly see how Mr. Thomson observing cathode rays deflect and split is enough evidence to fully adhere to the "electron" or "corpuscles" idea. I feel like simply observing the distinction of subatomics is enough.
Why is it that to this very day, Leedskalnin STILL has the most logical theory regarding these "sub atomics", being that they are simply N and S "particles" if you want to call them that. And they are very observably equal in strength and motion. To say that they are of equal charge but differing greatly in mass and motion seems to be a serious experimental oversight.
Ed had already pointed out in the early Crookes tube experiments the supply batteries being used were of different capacity, and the way they were attached provided more warmth and conductivity on the negative terminals. The end result was concluding the lazy massive proton remained stationary within the nucleus while the small nimble electron ran around it, and could be knocked away if running freely, to run toward another stationary proton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO3dXCsyBC4&feature=player_embedded
In reality it would be more logical to claim the + and - or N and S charges are running towards and through each other.
The next most logical theory which I have read concerns the atomic structure or the supposed particles within. According to a Matt Emery, the individual particles which are the + and - charges are in the shape of a helix, being that the shape allows for stretching and condensing (voltage and current), and being able to "screw" into any mass and pass through it. Also, the clockwise and counterclockwise directions they travel would allow the helical shape to pass through itself perfectly like strands of DNA. The current atomic model seems to me like a huge leap of theoretical faith.
I understand the irony of an individual such as myself stating apparent flaws or miscalculations in modern science, which have supposedly been tested time and time again by the best and brightest using the most expensive and advanced tools.. But I'm not the only one, and have the advantage of looking at it from a unbiased perspective, while most of these "best and brightest" have achieved this acclaim through an Elite categorization, which most of the time just means they had excelled greatly in the department of being able to kiss ass and swear by their teachings. The scientist believes he "knows" something when he labels it a fact, but as others have said, this fact was most likely concluded using the "facts" and equations of previous pioneers who may have been WRONG because their followers never questioned these facts and accepted them as empirical.
Second, why argue whether the Stubblefield is in "fact" a battery or not? All batteries die eventually, as all things eventually change.. People have built aerials and other large conductors that capture passing waves and have been able to charge capacitors and run small motors with them.
I have seen the video of CosmicGnarler light an av plug standing under HV power lines, and im fairly sure the reception would increase if he used a stubblefield-like inductor.. I also notice daily my little darlington quadruplet circuit switch on and off at the slightest of bodily movements from across the room, and tends to act differently depending on whatever may be going on in the nearby vicinity.
I know for a fact that even regular tap water, containing many supposed positive charges and not as many "electrons" can fully charge a car battery when used as the electrolyte. The chemical reaction still takes place and produces what is needed for a charge. The plates in the battery will eventually die this way, as they would eventually over time no matter what. As someone pointed out as long as the Sun exists we have energy, and the Sun is a battery that will eventually die also..
If we are talking about whether or not its a "battery" or not, we still have to acknowledge that its energy, in some shape or form, that has been passed along from another shape and form. Whether it is chemical, or atmospheric, its still going to be BOTH at the same time.
(IMO lol)
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Quote from: IotaYodi on Today at 01:34:12 PM
Was that before he soaked it in salt water? There would still be salt in the coil if he did that first. Also is the distilled water picking up ions from the copper and iron?
It intrigues me that - regardless of what an experimentalist claims - the readers of that experiment impose their own 'take' on the claim. Is that even scientific? My take is that when someone writes something then that's what they mean. What Laser told us was words to the effect 'It works fine with distilled water.' There are NO qualifications. You're making assumptions Iota. And as regards the 'ions'. If there are 'ions' around - here and there - then one must surely accept that such are readily available either in the water - or in the metals - EVERYWHERE. If these are being used? So what? I still argue they're part of that 3rd element. The ONLY condition that would then still confirm that this is a 'battery' would be if the metals 'rust' into an unusable powder. I'm reasonably sure that the only metal that can rust in laser's rig is the iron. But the confusions then come from the observed fact that Bill's rigs do NOT rust. 2 years and climbing and - NO SIGHT OF RUST? How then can you attempt to argue an electrolytic process?
The only assumption ive made is if the salt water was used first and thats a valid concern if the coil wasn't broken down and cleaned. I believe even with pure water that ions would be picked up from the copper or iron. Unless someone disproves it. Current flow inhibits rust and has already been proven by science. Im not arguing electrolytic process. There may be some but seems to be checked by current flow as far as materiel depletion. The question of the distilled water picking up ions still stand.
Quote from: IotaYodi on Today at 01:34:12 PM
With respect I'm not sure what electronic conduction means - if anything.
Standard term to differentiate ionic flow from electron flow. 2 separate flows that can produce electricity according to physics. The Ionic flow may be cold electricity.
Again, and with the utmost respect - this is nonsense. There are NO OBSERVED PROVEN 'FREE ELECTRONS' ANYWHERE AT ALL - least of all in the energy levels of atoms - which I think is what you're trying to refer to here
Free to move not free electrons. Copper has 29 electrons. If one is forced out of its shell and into the next atom forcing that one into the next and so on making a flow of electrons. This is how Im perceiving it. If the electrons dont leave their shells then an explanation is in order for me to understand.
Quote from: IotaYodi on Today at 01:34:12 PM
His setup is a standard earth battery and not a coil.
That - Iota - is your opinion only,
No. Unless bill has changed his set up he did not have a coil. He had a simple Anode and cathode and did not use iron wire.
Quote from: IotaYodi on Today at 01:34:12 PM
Knowing where Bill lives there is still moisture below ground. If its too wet there is a voltage drop. I think this applys to both the Ns coil and standard earth battery.
Interestingly - Bill's rig show NO RUST AT ALL. What do you make of that? With or without water - with or without ions? What exactly is depleting? Where is there any evidence of a 'cost' if the materials last and last? Where does the actual ENERGY come from that is lighting his LED's?
If he hasnt changed his setup the materiel's he used doesnt rust other than a little oxidation on the copper wire. He has a large anode and cathode and that helps. In my opinion the actual energy comes from the constant telluric currents being produced in the earth. What exactly is depleting is a good question.
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Hello Magneticitist.
The beauty about any physics theory is that it is either partially or completely right. Else it would hardly survive a moment. And I do not, for a moment, propose that our Greats are wrong in essentials - hardly. They've all led us to where we are today. And the technological revolution abounds - unstoppable and breathtaking. It's all amazing. And our scientists have every cause to be proud of their achievements. But. They are simply WRONG if they conclude that electrons are the cause of current flow. It quite simply does not 'stack' - not logically. I personally think that Leedskalnin knew how to defeat the gravitational pull - and his work pays tribute to some such miracle. And his work is not even referenced in schools. Personally I have difficulty with his monopolar subdivision of that quintessential particle - but at least he unquestionably proposed this as the material structure of 'charge'. And he's not alone. I believe Tesla also pointed to 'dark' energies or to 'force fields' as the source of all energy. Also contra 'popular belief'. And I also think that 'belief' has become the preferred method of anlaysis. It seems the public and our scholars are actively discouraged from looking at 'inconvenient truths' - as phrased by Al Gore - albeit in a different context.
The reaon I go on and on about the definition of Laser's rig - being either a battery or a generator - or both? is because it really, really matters - in the same way that Tesla matters, or Leedskalnin. Can you imagine where we would be today if mainstream had picked up on the significance of the remarkable research conducted by forum members on the Joule Thief? Or can you imagnine where our physics would have moved if those many questions still outstanding in physics were simply acknowledged? And here we have a development where simple applications of what seems to be pure inductive principles - are fuelling what also seems to be perpetual motion! Why is this not being shown in classrooms? Why is it not being filmed and shown as Hot News through our media? Surely? If it's perpetual motion we should be shown this. And if it's not perpetual motion it should be explained. But not with the facile arguments used in these forums. At least then use those arguments that can be more completely understood. A battery - in essence - requires the systematic transfer of energy from one medium to another at the cost of some material depletion in one or other of those two mediums. In this alone it appears that neither the Joule Thief's nor Laser's rendition of the Nathan Stubblefield coil - comply. That definitely confronts conventional understandings - all over the place. And while everyone is happy to point to scientific achievements - the truth is that science has NOT progressed much since the turn of the century - or since quantum mechanics was forged. We really need to move on to new questions and new paradigms. For the crying need to re-introduce some logic into science if not for sake of our planet's poor state of health.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Dark energy = unknown energy .
I will say that 5 types known , but what is causing those 5 recognized forces , i will postulate that the root of those are from the conversion from dark energies .
Is electricity an action or a reaction , first off as long as it works who cares , but now we are beyond that , some times a mirror is all that is needed to see a complete picture .
I saw this video http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/56623/Secret_UFO_Propulsion_System_Boyd_Bushman_Lockheed/
I sure would love talking with him .
Mark
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Dark energy = unknown energy .
I will say that 5 types known , but what is causing those 5 recognized forces , i will postulate that the root of those are from the conversion from dark energies .
Is electricity an action or a reaction , first off as long as it works who cares , but now we are beyond that , some times a mirror is all that is needed to see a complete picture .
I saw this video http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/56623/Secret_UFO_Propulsion_System_Boyd_Bushman_Lockheed/
I sure would love talking with him .
Mark
Hi Mark. That video was AMAZING. And nice to see another whistle blower. And really nice to see more acknowledgement of Dark Energy. I spoke to a physicist about this on one of our campuses. A full on Professor. He told me, categorically, that Dark Energy is still not proven. Amazing. They don't even recognise the achievements of their own colleagues when it confronts new truths.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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Guys, I finally took the trouble to look up cold electricity. It's very ably described here by Stefan - for anyone who, like me, may not have understood the term.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit
Sorry if it's off topic - but I get STUCK if I don't understand a term. And these new terms are absolutely not standard. But I now get the concept. Frankly I don't see a need for another term for this. But there you go. The result is still AMAZING.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Rose:
Just to clarify a few things. I have built 2 Stubblefield coils and, as Iota says, my original "earth battery" which consists of magnesium and carbon rods. So, if folks watch my videos, they should not mix the 2 devices as they are totally different.
I have no sand in my soil here, it is mostly clay, and when it dries out, it cracks. If, as some say, the moisture in the ground was the ONLY thing, then why would my alignment make so much difference in the output? The dip angles and the meridian alignments make all the difference, at least it did for me and a bunch of Russian experimenters that came before us.
Ignore Milehigh. I have tried to communicate with him while he was here and not banned, it was of no use. He "knows" what he thinks he knows and that is it.
That same tired argument of the cost of electricity of thousands of dollars to produce the magnesium and carbon rods does not hold up at all. I have had similar retorts to my tube videos. One guy even told me that it takes over $100 worth of electricity to make even one 2N3904 transistor so my JT set-ups are not efficient at all. Really? Think about this for one second. I buy those transistors for like $.29 ea (US) so, if they really cost over $100 to produce then, someone is getting screwed!
This is the same as Milehigh's argument. If he knew anything at all about business, he would know that to produce my magnesium block, if it took a hoover dam type project to do so then I believe I would have paid a little more than $30 for it. If he is claiming that the energy (potential energy) is stored in these materials well, he is correct but then Einstein beat him to that idea many years ago. Potential energy is inherent in ALL matter. E=mc squared and all that.
So, his protests are nothing new, sad to say. when I used to ask him what he has built and experimented with his response was "I didn't have to, I know it does not work". Very helpful and a great contribution to our joint energy research efforts.
So, while Lasersaber's rotor continues to turn, and my leds continue to light from my electrodes, pseudo intellects like Milehigh will continue to tell us why this will not ever work.
Oh well.
Bill
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Which brings me back to your post here Iota. You must please forgive me. I'm really not qualified to comment on any level at all other than our shared rights to express our doubts and our thoughts generally. I've re-read my posts and there's very little to commend them other than a rather intolerant pendantry. Since I'm accusing everyone else of this - then perhaps I should hold up that mirror that Mark proposed we use. LOL
As I understand it ions are the basis of plasmas and yes, I also understand it that they're responsive to magnetic fields - which indicates a charge value - presumably based on it's valence condition. But I think the assumption is made that there are such inside the materials - be it the iron, copper, water whatever. And yes Laser used salt - so, presumably, he has found that the early removal of that galvanic crust to his wire also promotes the inductive principles that allow the rotor to turn.
Here's Wiki's definition of galvanised iron coatings - using zinc.
Zinc coatings prevent corrosion of the protected metal by forming a physical barrier, and by acting as a sacrificial anode if this barrier is damaged. When exposed to the atmosphere, zinc reacts with oxygen to form zinc oxide, which further reacts with water molecules in the air to form zinc hydroxide. Finally zinc hydroxide reacts with carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to yield a thin, impermeable, tenacious and quite insoluble dull gray layer of zinc carbonate which adheres extremely well to the underlying zinc, so protecting it from further corrosion, in a way similar to the protection afforded to aluminium and stainless steels by their oxide layers.
I think what we must both recognise is that the only 'rusting' that laser has reported on is the rusing of that zinc coating. But I'm open to correction. If this is the case then the underlying iron is not rusting any further. Again. I'm open to correction. Laser? Anyone?
Regarding ionic flow from electron flow? Here I'm afraid you've lost me. I don't think anyone assumes that the ions actually flow as an electric current. I always understood it that the assumption is that there's either too many or two few electrons that cause a valence imbalance. The electrons, as you then point out, are assumed to 'move' as current flow and they move to balance out any experienced valence condition. This is not speculative. These facts are known and proven. But the point is this. The actual rig that laser has - must also be allowing or inducing a current flow else the switches would not switch and the rotor would not turn. That current flow - cannot comprise a 'flow' of electrons for many reasons which I've listed in that link I repeatedly add to my signature. I'll risk it again. My proposal is that the movement or the re-arrangement of the electrons within the structure is the result of current flow - NOT the movement of those electrons which is absolutely NOT debateable. Electrons can and do move through standard chemical interactions. But as Magneticist has pointed out - this may be a result of the flow of current - not the material of the current itself. The effect, and not the cause.
Regarding this statement of yours
Standard term to differentiate ionic flow from electron flow. 2 separate flows that can produce electricity according to physics. The Ionic flow may be cold electricity.
Free to move not free electrons. Copper has 29 electrons. If one is forced out of its shell and into the next atom forcing that one into the next and so on making a flow of electrons. This is how Im perceiving it. If the electrons dont leave their shells then an explanation is in order for me to understand.
That process - the movement of one electron into the body of another atom would require the emission of a photon. In effect, the wire carrying the flow of current would light up like lights on a christmas tree. However, if one electron 'bumped up' against another but stayed put inside it's own atom - then one could definitely 'transfer' energy through a wire. But that process would take some time to 'start'. It would require about half an hour's delay on laser's rig alone - assuming he's got in excess of 2 meters of wiring- to start spinning the rotor. Our scientists know the rate at which one electron will influence its neighbouring electron - so to speak.
I did not realise that Bill is not using a coil. But I'll check on this and get back to you.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
http://www.scribd.com/doc/38315399/MORE-INCONVENIENT-TRUTHS
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Rose:
Check my previous post, you may have missed it.
Bill
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Pirate. At last. I've been hoping you'll get on line. I know how MileHigh argues. He's rather proud of his debating skills. But I absolutely agree with your points and voiced them - but not with the same aplomb as you've managed here.
I'm with you Pirate. These effects are really important to analyse. I've tried to get a couple of chemists to comment. But to no avail. Meanwhile I'd still rather depend on my own poor logic than borrow anyone else's - at least until I find something that sits better than current mainstream concepts - (literally and figuratively). LOL
;D
Kindest regards,
Rosie
Rose:
Just to clarify a few things. I have built 2 Stubblefield coils and, as Iota says, my original "earth battery" which consists of magnesium and carbon rods. So, if folks watch my videos, they should not mix the 2 devices as they are totally different.
I have no sand in my soil here, it is mostly clay, and when it dries out, it cracks. If, as some say, the moisture in the ground was the ONLY thing, then why would my alignment make so much difference in the output? The dip angles and the meridian alignments make all the difference, at least it did for me and a bunch of Russian experimenters that came before us.
Ignore Milehigh. I have tried to communicate with him while he was here and not banned, it was of no use. He "knows" what he thinks he knows and that is it.
That same tired argument of the cost of electricity of thousands of dollars to produce the magnesium and carbon rods does not hold up at all. I have had similar retorts to my tube videos. One guy even told me that it takes over $100 worth of electricity to make even one 2N3904 transistor so my JT set-ups are not efficient at all. Really? Think about this for one second. I buy those transistors for like $.29 ea (US) so, if they really cost over $100 to produce then, someone is getting screwed!
This is the same as Milehigh's argument. If he knew anything at all about business, he would know that to produce my magnesium block, if it took a hoover dam type project to do so then I believe I would have paid a little more than $30 for it. If he is claiming that the energy (potential energy) is stored in these materials well, he is correct but then Einstein beat him to that idea many years ago. Potential energy is inherent in ALL matter. E=mc squared and all that.
So, his protests are nothing new, sad to say. when I used to ask him what he has built and experimented with his response was "I didn't have to, I know it does not work". Very helpful and a great contribution to our joint energy research efforts.
So, while Lasersaber's rotor continues to turn, and my leds continue to light from my electrodes, pseudo intellects like Milehigh will continue to tell us why this will not ever work.
Oh well.
Bill
There. I've done it. LOL
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Rose:
Check my previous post, you may have missed it.
Bill
Bill - our posts crossed. "LIKE MINDS" It must be synchronicity - one of Aaron Murakami's deep obsessions. LOL.
I'm trying to copy over your post into my own post. Would be so grateful for more talent on these systems - or otherwise just way more grey matter than the Good Lord saw fit to give me.
;D
Kindest as ever,
R
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I totally understand the significance of acknowledging the true nature of how the stubblefield is working, but technically the world is already aware of this type of technology and we have called them solar panels. The world seems to not care about specifics. At the end of the day any physicist is going to attribute all energy gain from the Sun.
Being able to construct a small coil that kicks out inductive spikes for the use of small motoring is definitely interesting, but it seems the industry has chosen to invest in these solar gathering panels instead, which in all reality work much more efficiently.
I know in my heart the electron is a mistake..
Having a theory seemingly fit all the pieces together is hardly a basis to lay a foundation we call facts. Its a great theory but not a fact.
I have had plenty of personal experiences with these types of circuits where i felt i had gained a solid conclusion about something, that seems to be tried and true, until one day i try something else and all that goes out the window..
the explanation of hot air rising with force is even a bunch of BS to me..
As far as determining whether the coil is a battery or not, i suppose Lasersaber is doing the best that he can, by publicly displaying its long term usage.. Eventually there will be an answer.
I would think that after several months, if the overall output has decreased we would know.
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I didnt know Bill had a ns coil up yet so I must apologize. Going to have to check his videos out again.
That process - the movement of one electron into the body of another atom would require the emission of a photon.
That I didnt know. I knew if a photon was absorbed by a metal surface that an electron was ejected. Now you have me thinking photons moving electrons like in photo-electrics. You just put an overload on my 7 brain cells. lol!
Seeing how there are photons that are not visible I wonder if these types are present in the process.
I think what we must both recognise is that the only 'rusting' that laser has reported on is the rusing of that zinc coating.
I havent seen that. If its white corrosion it would be the zinc. If its brown its probably rust from the iron. May be a combination of both. Ant pictures available. Didnt see anything on utube.
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Iota:
Correction, I do not think I had my video camera at the time of my NS coil experiments but, I did document all of my tests over on the Stubblefield topic with photos.
I only built 2 of them and only one had 2 layers of windings, the first one was a single layer. None of them had a secondary. I never got that far. Sorry for my bad memory.
Bill
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the explanation of hot air rising with force is even a bunch of BS to me..
That is just a simple example of gravity at work. The cold air, which is more dense and therefore heavier sinks which displaces the warmer or hot air and forces it up.
Bill
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Hi Iota. The 'drift' of electrons in a typical electrolytic interaction - is usually associated with the separation or 'joining up' (don't know the technical term) of atoms in a molecule. There is no 'isolation' of an actual electron to move in it's own preferred direction. It moves within the atomic structure towards wherever it is that it can compensate for it's own valence imbalance - is how I understand it. But I'm so much a beginner in this that I really should not comment at all. And nor would I if we could get some chemist to enlighten us. Those that I have asked have not given me any kind of answer - and, latterly, I see they don't even post anymore on EF.com. So I'm stuck. I wish there was a qualified chemist on this forum who would engage.
Meanwhile - I also need to know if Laser's wire is galvanised with 'zinc'. I'm not even sure of that. Laser? Please, if you read here, could you advise us. I'd also be very glad if you could give us the diameter of your coil - at first winding - and then, if possible, the number of 'layers'. Maybe we can find out the resistive values from the length. I'd like to give it a go. The hope is to get to some kind of numbers that we can at least roughly estimate the wattage dissipated. If you've already given us this - then apologies for asking for it again. If anyone has picked up on these values, please post them. Or just point me to where I should be able to find this.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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I only built 2 of them and only one had 2 layers of windings, the first one was a single layer. None of them had a secondary. I never got that far. Sorry for my bad memory.
Your memory has to be better than mine. lol!
I guess its safe to say the bulk of power is in your mag block and carbon rod.
Meanwhile - I also need to know if Laser's wire is galvanised with 'zinc'.
If he said galvanized Im quite sure its zinc. Im curious on the iron carbon content which he probably doesnt know. Ive never seen those specs on galvanized wire for fencing.
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Iota:
I don't know what Lasersaber did but when I went shopping for wire I took a neo mag. with me. I tried many types of "iron" wire and settled on a non-galvanized wire that was really attracted to the neo. I did the same with my core. As it turned out, a galvanized spike had very great attraction to the mag. way more than any other type of rebar or anything else I could find. So, that is what I used on both coils.
Bill
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As it turned out, a galvanized spike had very great attraction to the mag. way more than any other type of rebar or anything else I could find. So, that is what I used on both coils.
Thanks Bill! From previous research on rebar I found its mainly made from scraps and has a higher carbon content thats probably not suited for electromagnets. There are different grades but Ive seen it stated the chemistry is not uniform also. 1018 steel is still the cheapest lower carbon high iron Ive found. I still believe this is what NS had in his bolt.
You can check the remanence of your spike or other metal by holding it close to a monitor. You dont really have to put it directly on. Even with a magnet Ive tried on my old monitor it creates a pattern that stayed. When I turn the monitor off and back on its gone. This is a regular crt and not lcd. All you need to do is put a magnet on the metal then take it off and check it. To de-polarize use the opposite pole of the magnet and put it on about the same amount of time as you did the original pole. Ive taken laminated electrical steel cores from motors and there is no remanence at all. Impressive stuff.
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Pirate - did you get my email?
Kindest regards,
Rosie
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@all
Based on some reading i have done on old iron , the impurity found in the iron was phosphor ( based on research on vintage piano string composition ) .
But the main issue is that iron is not steel but steel is iron , we need the unhardened stuff , steel will remain magnetized. But i have given up finding some , even some core stolen electromagnets show clear residual magnetism (compass test).
My conclusions is that waiting on the optimum core , is lost time working on the prototype .
Mark
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@all
Based on some reading i have done on old iron , the impurity found in the iron was phosphor ( based on research on vintage piano string composition ) .
But the main issue is that iron is not steel but steel is iron , we need the unhardened stuff , steel will remain magnetized. But i have given up finding some , even some core stolen electromagnets show clear residual magnetism (compass test).
My conclusions is that waiting on the optimum core , is lost time working on the prototype .
Mark
Hello Mark. If you're really anxious to use pure iron - perhaps you could get piping? and fill it with iron filings. I've done that but am not sure whether it's going to work or not - not yet anyway - as I haven't finished the winding. Hopefully I'll get back to this in a week or so.
Iota - I was really, really way out in that previous post of mine. I've been doing some reading and will try and get my thoughts together later on today - if possible. Else I'll need to defer it for tomorrow. I'm strill struggling with the electron 'drift' as I can't find any examples where the electron change doesn't resolve itself into the orbitals of some kind of atomic structure. But I'm still looking.
Regards
Rosemary
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@mk1
Your right about the iron. If your electromagnet core is laminated electrical steel you should have negligible remanence. Ive never seen any on my monitor after they have been in contact with very strong neos and other magnets. I have 2 compasses. One has a brass casing and the other plastic. I get some movement on these cores with the brass casing but not the plastic. Make sure you dont magnetize your compass needle also.
Ns didnt have the materiels we have today. Im still thinking his core was 1018 steel. I get a very slight remanence with 1018 steel. Lasers core is better than that. You just dont get the field collapse intensity with higher carbon materiels. A laminated electrical steel core would be the cats meow but not necessary for a prototype.
I'm strill struggling with the electron 'drift' as I can't find any examples where the electron change doesn't resolve itself into the orbitals of some kind of atomic structure. But I'm still looking.
Take a tip from this Vietnam veteran. Never ever give up! My nephew who has a Phd in physics and a degree in Computer science can attest to that.
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Iota:
This is why I believe a ferrite rod would make a perfect core for these. It should be able to magnetize/de-magnetize very fast as in our JT circuits. Stubblefield, of course, did not have access to these but, in my opinion, if he did, he probably would have used it.
Thanks for your service in Nam.
Bill
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I think ferrite should be tried. Being so fragile you would have to be careful with the windings. I suppose you could use an iron core with multiple ferrite toroids over it. Dont know how that would affect it. Or an iron tube with a ferrite core inserted. From some reading today on power transformers using ferrite,it takes a larger wire on ferrite to do the same as an electrical steel core. May not matter with the Ns coil scheme.
Thanks for your service in Nam
Thank you Bill!
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Iota:
What I was considering using since I have not seen many sources for good, low cost ferrite rods was a wood dowel with the easy to get toroids slid onto it. Might need to spot weld it with a hot glue gun in a few places but I think it would be important to allow as much contact of the toroids to each other as possible. With the wood as the "core", I would not expect any possible bad side effects as if we used any other type of metal.
Bill
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Novel idea Bill. You would need to glue or fasten them down to the rod also so they rotate in unison for the windings. Sounds doable.
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Novel idea Bill. You would need to glue or fasten them down to the rod also so they rotate in unison for the windings. Sounds doable.
Thanks. Well, since the toroids all have their edges broken at 45 degrees when you put them together you get a 90 degree groove that one could easily spot-weld (hot glue) several places around the circumference and those glue spots would be sub-surface to the outside diameter of the toroids. This way, as you said, they would all rotate together on the wood dowel and there were be no glue on the faces of the toroids so hopefully we get it to think it is one long tube.
I did this with my large toroids on my Lidmotor's Jeanna light replication. This is how I stacked 2 of those large toroids together to make one very thick toroid.
Bill
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@mk1
Make sure you dont magnetize your compass needle also.
Good one , it must be a joke ...
Mark
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Good one , it must be a joke ...
;D
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Guys? 10 days and no more posting? What gives here? Actually I'm as culpable as ever in not coming back here.
Laser can you advise us on the status of that rotor? Is everything still spinning ? - is the question. I need to get my own tests up and running. I'd be REALLY sorry if this thread 'falls off the cliff' as MileHigh puts it. I shall certainly try and get my test together. Can you believe it? I'm still looking for the 'feet' of that core that I've got. But I've been remiss. I'll do my best to attend to it during this coming week. Apologies for letting this go for so long - but I've been up to my ears.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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;D
What did happen to your compass needle?
???
J.
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The motor has stopped!
Sorry for the delay on posting this. I have had almost no free time and what little I have found I have put into building and testing.
I did not feel like typing this twice so here is a copy of what I posted in the NS thread.
I had my long term test motor running along just fine. It ran for over 110 days nonstop with no added water. When it did slow down I believe it was because it had a failure at the connection point where the two pieces of steel wires connected. I used two rolls of steel wire on that coil and the point where the two connected has always a trouble spot in the back of my mind. This is the second time I have had this happen on a NS coil. I will never again use multiple pieces of wire in a NS coil again. I may do a video of a coil dissection on this coil so that we can all see what the inner wires look like after well over 100 days of constant running.
I just finished a new NS coil, it is very large and uses about 10 pounds of 16# wire. I used continuous wires with no connections. It is an amazing coil and works really well. I will feature it in a video soon.
I have also been doing a lot of non galvanic tests. I have had some really encouraging results.
Test 1:
I have wound coils with copper cores and copper wires no iron wire at all. I have found that it is possible to get voltage and mA simply using copper alone. You need to use dissimilar diameter copper wires. This effect works in the ground and out of the ground.
Test 2:
I have also found that a NS coil works using enamel covered copper wire and iron wire in a dry state. I will admit that I am now very interested in building a Faraday cage to do further tests with this non galvanic NS coil.
Test 3:
On a slightly different track I also made a replication of Daniel McFarland Cook's coils and got them working in a super efficient motor design. I ran the motor for over ten days on discharged super capacitors alone. I then dead shorted the capacitors for over 24 hours and started the motor run test again. It started running with the capacitors showing 12 millivolts while under load running the motor. After another couple days the motor was still running at the same millivolt levels. I think this is working on the self charge effect these large capacitors seem to display. I know that it will work very well connected to a regular NS coil. NS coils behave very much like super capacitors.
I really need to make some new videos showing and better explaining some of these effects. I will build a Faraday cage and do more tests.
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LASER - What a shame. PLEASE CHECK HOW MUCH WATER IS THERE IN YOUR COIL. And can you unwrap it under video? Be most interested.
But REALLY WELL DONE for this. And I look forward to seeing more. Strangely I've now got the 'feet' to that coil - but LOL - have lost the coil itself. I'm hoping to find it on campus.
Thanks very much Laser for your test. AND Please keep us posted on your new developments.
Kindest regards,
Rosemary
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I should point out that about half the coil is still working and I can run the motor off the working half using only one reed switch. It's just has about half it's previous performance.
I am looking forward to taking it apart on video.
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Excellent work Laser. Im glad to see you coupled the cook coil to it. Electricme coupled his Jt to his small coil and lit up the led. Even though you used a splice you wound the coil correctly. Nice and uniform with the layers on top of each other. Makes for a nice uniform field and less eddy currents. The way its wound and the materiel's used makes a difference.
We do need to make these coils bigger but money is usually the enemy. If Pirate ever gets one going with his excellent earth battery setup we may see more advances.
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Dissecting a NS coil after 165 days of operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSZcQ5cGAQ
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Dissecting a NS coil after 165 days of operation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRSZcQ5cGAQ
Hi laser. That was a really interesting autopsy. Delighted to see where your new tests are going. Please do keep us updated. And very well done for all that construct. It was utterly intriguing.
Regards,
Rosemary
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Hi all,.... galvanic reaction ...was mentioned quite a bit....during this test....I noticed in the tests' I preformed that regardless of the amount of copper ,cotton ,steel or aluminum wire..........I could never get better than .75 volts/cell.....I made over 75 different cells...all of different sizes ,different amounts of copper ,different amounts of cotton.....the best arrangement I could get was six cells in series, paralled in sets of three....I still have six leds running non stop for over a month now ...all I have to do is mist them 3 times a day..their not in the dirt just lying on a dinner plate just using tap water ....how long before the metals rust out and quit?...I don't really believe in electron flow ...more so chemical transformation.......and I believe magnetism.....directs the flow of transformation.........voltage rise and voltage drop don't work on these cells I have.............magnetism can direct the flow of tranformation,...transformation should be able to direct the flow of magnetism.something to think about ....shylo