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Author Topic: Perpetual Plumbing!!  (Read 9361 times)

Offline Newton II

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Perpetual Plumbing!!
« on: February 01, 2014, 03:17:54 AM »
Here is a buoyancy device which eats the ball at the top and shits it out from the bottom causing perpetual plumbing!   This device makes use of momentum and collission unlike other buoyancy devices.  If you use a lengthy tube,  the momentum gained by the ball should be sufficient enough to cause perpetual plumbing!   Will it work?

http://jestr.org/downloads/volume1/fulltext12.pdf

Offline tinman

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2014, 01:14:09 PM »
And how exactly is the water level achieved as shown in the pic,with out flowing around to the side of the U shaped pipe,into the ball holding cavity?.

Offline Newton II

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 02:44:53 PM »

And how exactly is the water level achieved as shown in the pic,with out flowing around to the side of the U shaped pipe,into the ball holding cavity?.


Water is standing on mercury below it.   There is no empty space below the water.   Since mercury is a heavy liquid, the level of mercury is far less than level of water in the tube.    The weights of several balls acting  on the bottom most ball pushes it to some extent into the mercury,  eventhough the ball is lighter than mercury and floats in both liquids. 

There is nothing wrong in figure or idea.    The question here  is,   the momentum of ball falling from the top is sufficient enough to push the bottom most ball through balance portion of mercury to the bottom of water,  so that from there ball floats to the top and cycle repeats.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 02:56:43 PM »
Please study this section of Simanek's Museum:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/buoy4.htm



Offline Newton II

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 03:41:35 PM »
Please study this section of Simanek's Museum:

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/buoy4.htm


The important difference between Simanek's drawing and the one above is,   Simanek's drawing shows only one ball which gains and loses energy as he has explained in that section.   But the drawing above  has several balls which have their own weight and total weight altogether act on the bottommost ball  pushing it to some extent inside mercury and storing initial potential energy in it.   Now you need energy only to cover the balance portion of mercury and not the entire portion.   If the falling ball (this ball falls on another solid ball making a collission and not directly on mercury) from the top provides this balance energy then bottommost ball should cover the balance portion of mercury  and move towards top of water.

Since mercury is a very heavy liquid,  the energy required to push the ball through it will be high.  So, whether this system works -  I don't know.



Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2014, 01:51:09 AM »

 But the drawing above  has several balls which have their own weight and total weight altogether act on the bottommost ball  pushing it to some extent inside mercury and storing initial potential energy in it. 
 

Ball is lighter than mercury and water.  When mercury is supporting such a lengthy column of water on left side,  will it allow the still lighter ball to penentrate through it?  Mercury will easily support weight of all the balls put together and will not allow the bottom most ball to penentrate through it to the extent shown in that figure.

Offline dieter

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2014, 10:54:33 AM »
Does it really need to be mercury? How about oil and water? At least, this could be tested easily. Will the oil and water surface level be the same? I know, it's a silly question. But I really never tried this.

Offline tinman

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2014, 12:55:33 PM »


Since mercury is a very heavy liquid,  the energy required to push the ball through it will be high.  So, whether this system works -  I don't know.

That is where the down fall is,and why it wont work. Since mercury is 13.5 times as heavy as water,it will take 13.5 times as much force to displace the mercury as it would the same amount of water at 4*c.

Offline Marsing

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2014, 01:17:48 PM »
negative........

Offline vineet_kiran

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Re: Perpetual Plumbing!!
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2014, 02:44:36 PM »
Does it really need to be mercury? How about oil and water? At least, this could be tested easily. Will the oil and water surface level be the same? I know, it's a silly question. But I really never tried this.

 
You can use water with lighter oil like petrol or kerosene.
 
I had tried an experiment with water, kerosene and candle wax ball.  Candle wax sinks in kerosene but floats on water (unlike the ball used in the above experiment which floats on both liquids).  The wax ball was sinking down through kerosene and stop at the junction of two liquids.  In whatever fashion (angle) you keep the tube, ball will finally settle only at junction.

It reminded me of one important propery of liquids which says that " liquids communicate pressure equally in all directions".
 
Hence when ball reaches the junction of two liquids, it need not necessarily pass through and float on heavier liquid because the heavier liquid communicates the pressure in downward direction also and holds the ball at junction itself.

Conducting experiment is never a waste of time even if it doesnot work because you will learn lot of things from it. Since this experiment is simple and inexpensive, you can try and see.