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Author Topic: Requesting decent analysis on FEMM simulation data  (Read 4943 times)

Offline shadowpt

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Requesting decent analysis on FEMM simulation data
« on: February 08, 2013, 10:50:26 AM »
I have made this post on another website while seeking for help but none was found so far so I am posting here hoping that I can finally find some insight on this situation, the following is the post:

I have been running simulations in FEMM for different magnetic configurations as an attempt to understand better how do they work and why it is impossible to come up with the holy grail of energy: a permanent motion machine run by magnets only.

I have started this 3 years ago (just for pure curiosity) and already conducted simulations on the most known configurations (spirals, v-gates, etc.) which made me understand why they did not work. After that I started running simulations of configurations of my own (some very basic and some very strange) and they all end up resulting in a total force of 0 (or very close if we take into account the precision treshold) which is what is to be expected, the magnets are not suppose to generate more energy by themselves.

4 days ago I came up with another configuration that made me question my ability to analyze the data retrieved from that simulation and the following is the respective chart:

From mark 0 to mark 90 you can see various colors and I will explain them to you:

    -Both "light blue" and "orange" colors represent the forces existing in both the X and Y axis respectively.

    -Positive values represent the direction on which the force is leading in that respective position, ex: positive X means the force is to the right, positive Y means the force is upwards and vice-versa.

    -The "light yellow" and the "grey" colors represent the effective forces (resulting forces that contribute or not for the movement), they are the decomposition of the source forces (X and Y) because the movement in this path is circular, so only a tangential force related to the circle is the only one that matters here.

    -The "dark blue" color represents the sum of the "light yellow" and "grey" forces which is the final tangential force related to the circular movement.

After the 90 mark till the rest of the chart the movement is vertically straight so only the Y force is the one contributing (or not) to the movement.

After the last mark the movement is equally repeated so it is of no value for analysis.

Either one of the halfs is contributing or not contributing to the movement, so we will take into consideration (for better understanding) that the from 0 mark to 90 mark the force is working AGAINST the movement and after the 90 mark the force is working FOR the movement.

The total sum of the forces (taking into account the direction and path movement, so the first half will have negative values and the second has positive, as stated before) is ~2.92 and the second half has 3.5 more times the force of the first half.

My final conclusion after this analysis was that it is not possible and that I might have done some mistake, so I removed the magnet which I used to retrieve the force values and only analyzed the forces that existed in the path only. The result was exactly the same.

It is to my understanding that such thing is not possible, we have laws about this and after squeezing my brain over this I couldn't come to a solution to make it result in 0 (as it should) or finding a mistake. I had no other alternative than to search for other people's analysis (someone that knows more than me) on this data in order to pinpoint me what the error is or if there is no error at all and in fact the configuration is able to create more energy than it receives.

The following is a link leading to the data pulled from the simulation so that anyone can check it with more depth, the file can be opened in excel.

Hope someone can shine some light in this matter.

PS: Forgot to explain that I do not know almost anything about magnetism, I am at best a person playing with legos and seeing how they work together.