Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Mi on April 22, 2006, 01:59:38 AM

Title: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 22, 2006, 01:59:38 AM
Perendev-like prototype in progress. Free peek, open source, etc.
http://www.magnet.gr8.se - updated along the way... movies will come if it works.
Input in this thread appreciated.
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: hartiberlin on April 22, 2006, 02:54:32 AM
Greatwork so far.
What kind of magnets did you use ?
Did you put a hole into neodym magnets and did you screw
them then to the rotor ?

How do you want to do the shielding ?
You need a few iron plates in a specific angle
in front of the magnets almost half to the center...

Good luck.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 22, 2006, 03:04:21 AM
What kind of magnets did you use ?
Did you put a hole into neodym magnets and did you screw them then to the rotor ?
How do you want to do the shielding ?
You need a few iron plates in a specific angle in front of the magnets almost half to the center...
Kind: Neodymium.
Hole: Already there
Screwed: Yes, with angled head. Steel screw - if need be, stainless available.
Shielding: Will first look at and feel behaviour to determine location if necessary.
"specific angle": Do you have more info?
"half to the center": Can you be more specific?

Don't we _love_ this?  :o
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: hartiberlin on April 22, 2006, 03:13:33 AM
Steel screw is bad, cause you make a shortcircuit of the magnetic flux from the
upper surface to the lower surface.
Use nonmagnetic screws only.
You could fix also a small iron plate onto the upper screw head
with some airgap between magnet surface and iron plate,
use some plastic sheet or something like this, so you
have a small airgap between magnet and iron plate
both being hold by the screw.
You probably have to form the ironplate this way, that half
of the flux can get out of the hole
and the other half is shielded.
when now the rotor moves versus the stator it will first attract the
iron plate and then finally sees the repelling magnet field of the
rotor magnet and the rotor can turn on.
Without shielding these motors will never work.
I also think the Torbay principle is much better than the Perendev principle,
cause it will generate much more torque and thus power.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 22, 2006, 05:04:55 AM
Steel screw is bad, cause you make a shortcircuit of the magnetic flux from the upper surface to the lower surface. Use nonmagnetic screws only.

You could fix also a small iron plate onto the upper screw head with some aurgap between magnet surface and iron plate, use some plastic sheet or something like this, so you have a small airgap between magnet and iron plate both being hold by the screw. You probably have to form the ironplate this way, that half of the flux can get out of the hole and the other half is shielded. when now the rotor moves versus the stator it will first attract the iron plate and then finally sees the repelling magnet field of the
rotor magnet and the rotor can turn on. Without shielding these motors will never work.

I also think the Torbay principle is much better than the Perendev principle, cause it will generate much more torque and thus power.
Steel screw: Stainless non-magnetic on the way. Thanks.
"iron plate": Interesting idea, solving the shielding and adding attraction when needed, on the aproach to the stator magnet.
Torbay: VERY interesting. Yes, Perendev has both positive torque and repelling/resisting, hopefully the positive will "win", so Torbay... IF we get to see, use and reproduce it, will be great. Hope it does not get bought and destroyed... ;)
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 22, 2006, 05:09:21 AM
Mounting all done.
Stators (3 with 4 magnets each) movable for tweaking.
Interestingly, in spite of many things "wrong" with it, when turning it by hand, the thing is very balanced, so it almost feels like turning the wheel without the stators present.
Due to the "errors", lockups occur where expected.
Next, get rid of errors, as described in above posts. Resuming Sunday night.
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 22, 2006, 07:04:48 AM
Without shielding these motors will never work.
Question: In this movie, there seems to be no sheilding. What's the "trick" to this, you think?
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Gregory on April 22, 2006, 02:10:43 PM
Hi Mi!

I really appreciate your effort, but...

What is your conception of the operation principle of the Perendev magnetic motor, showed in this video?
http://www.perendev-power.com/My_Homepage_Files/Download/magmotor%20web.wmv

Do you know what type of neodymimum magnets used by Mr. Mike Brady in his motor, in the video? What's are the dimensions and the magnetic orientation of the magnets? What's are the geometric relations between magnet to magnet, and between the rotors and stators?

I collected these questions, because it's a never ending story to replicate the perendev motor without the correct & exact answers to these questions at least...
Impossible... Impossible to replicate or copy something you don't exactly know how it works. And before replicatiing you must do some experiments to find answers to your questions step by step, starting with easy and simple things, and tend forward to complexity.


On the other hand What's are the properties of your magnets? What's are the dimensions and orientation?
First you must know what magnets do you need, anything other just come in the next steps, i think.

Maybe I can help you a bit, if I want. But i don't know I want it or not.
At the moment I wait for magnet manufacturer companies to reply my emails, I have got reply from one company, and I wait for 3 more. Next week I order special magnets for my experiments. My own design of a magnetic motor is almost complete. But unfortunately I need special magnets for one last experiment, and for my planned motor of course.  :(

And I also think not the shielding is the point, which actuate this type of motors.

What's about the movie you ask about Mi?
I see some magnets attracting to other magnets. Is this right? Because this means nothing useful.
If the thing works why they are stops? In fact if the thing works, they aren't stop instantly.
It's a video of Calloway? Calloway's design is incorrect, i think.


Best wishes,  :)
Greg
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: hartiberlin on April 22, 2006, 04:36:12 PM
Without shielding these motors will never work.
Question: In this movie, there seems to be no sheilding. What's the "trick" to this, you think?


Well, here we have the "end effect" of the tracks at work.
In a complete circle we have no "end effects" , cause we are in a loop
and only shielding will work
to get the rotor to the next stator segment !
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 24, 2006, 12:58:04 AM
Well, here we have the "end effect" of the tracks at work.
In a complete circle we have no "end effects" , cause we are in a loop and only shielding will work to get the rotor to the next stator segment !
But...
Take the track, make it longer, curve it UP at the end, curl it around to meet the beginning of the track - you have a circle, loop. The upper plate keeps moving eternally, but now inside the circle. End of story?
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 24, 2006, 03:48:36 AM
What is your conception of the operation principle of the Perendev magnetic motor, showed in this video?
Do you know what type of neodymimum magnets used by Mr. Mike Brady in his motor, in the video? What's are the dimensions and the magnetic orientation of the magnets? What's are the geometric relations between magnet to magnet, and between the rotors and stators?
After studying Brady's, i am 99% certain he uses repellation between stator and rotor. Orientation: Pole<->pole, radial to construction.
On the other hand What's are the properties of your magnets? What's are the dimensions and orientation?
Same as my 99% certainty, although mine are too short, poles are too close to eachother, i believe.
And I also think not the shielding is the point, which actuate this type of motors.
The shielding would not be actuating, it would only be to lessen the initial repellation as rotor magnet approaches the upcoming stator magnet, and produce further general unbalance.
What's about the movie you ask about Mi?
I see some magnets attracting to other magnets. Is this right? Because this means nothing useful.
If the thing works why they are stops? In fact if the thing works, they aren't stop instantly.
It's a video of Calloway? Calloway's design is incorrect, i think.
No, i think the magnets in video are repelling, but not sure. The stop is because the track ends, no? As far as i remember, the video is from someone's attemt to replicate a Calloway principle, yes. Why do you think Calloway principle is wrong?
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: mark australia on April 24, 2006, 05:44:35 AM
You are right its a repulson method...thats why if place under load or left running for a few days the magnets loose their powers. Many models of magnet motors using repulsion methods have run...but lose their power. The energy has to come from somewhere. I am not sure if this applies to the Torbay motor.
Kind Regards
mark
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 26, 2006, 02:37:32 AM
Well, here we have the "end effect" of the tracks at work.
In a complete circle we have no "end effects" , cause we are in a loop and only shielding will work to get the rotor to the next stator segment !
But...
Take the track, make it longer, curve it UP at the end, curl it around to meet the beginning of the track - you have a circle, loop. The upper plate keeps moving eternally, but now inside the circle. End of story?
No one to answer this?
Is it because it embarassingly reveals my ignorance? This question seems crucial to me. Is it not?
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: hartiberlin on April 26, 2006, 03:38:24 AM
If you close the stator loop, you have no end-track effects abymire, where the rotor
wants to move to.... Thus you need shielding to get a differential force again...
Been there have done these experiments...
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Gregory on April 27, 2006, 12:28:02 AM
I agree... The motor (in the movie) works in a repulsion method. But why? No one explained this...

So here is a few of my explanations:

See Brady's movie first, the starting of the motor. When the stators are closing, and before the rotor strats, you can see it first swing a little in counterclockwise direction. After this little swing it shows a tiny swing back in clockwise. And only begin to spin and accelerating after this swing -- swing back pattern. This is a very important pattern.
Reconciled with the construction of the motor this proves one thing: Every interaction between the magnets is repulsion in every position of the motor, because never appear a similar pattern with attraction. (Attraction is impossible to balance, but you can balance something with repulsion.)
And... If everey interaction in the motor is repulsion in every position, this also means the magnets in the design isn't oriented through thickness. They are oriented diametrically (or perchance radially), and mounted in the same way to repell each other in every position, i think. The dimensions of the magnets are also important.

Doesn't matter you use a closed loop cycle, or a straight line. If it works, It works in either. But if it doesn't work, it doesn't work either.
Of course in a straigth line you have an end effect in the end of the stator track. But thats all. This is not a devilish thing.

Greg
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Clarky on April 27, 2006, 12:47:12 AM
There is no question about it, Brady uses the repulsion, their site even says so. I can only imagine that the best way to reduce eddy currents for longevity would be to have the magnets well within their load threshold and use magnets with a relatively high gauss level. The shielding may also reduce eddy currents as it would constrict the approaching parts of the field preventing them from reacting as strongly over the same distance, so the overall build up would be diminished significantly if each magnet has a smaller focused area of interaction.

The angles, the tri rotor offset of half a magnet, and shielding (mu-metal inserts on the approaching sides) seem critical, it all seems to be set up in such a way as to tip the balance so the direct initial repulsion of one magnet in the rotor pressures the next magnet in the offset to pass the parrallel point of the next stator magnet, concluding in a repeat to the next.. locking it into an asymmetric interaction.
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Mi on April 27, 2006, 01:22:46 AM
I totally agree.
The method i am using, is to divide the stator in 3 separate parts, overlapping by half a magnet each stator part. (Thus i dont have to make 3 stator- and rotor-parts). Granted, mine will give much less torque because of this - but it is a toy, and proof-of-concept, only.

Update on my replication:
- i got non-attracting stainless screws to hold the magnets
- i got metal plates to attach atop magnets on rotor, to separate with thin plastic sheet, producing frontal shielding, and some initial attraction to upcoming stator magnet.

Not much time, as other projects, family and a 5-day out-of-town trip is "in the way" ;)

BTW: The assymetrical interaction, over-riding the repellation, is a "loose-some - gain-some" situation. This means the "net" output torque is much less than the total magnetism/energy in magnets. It would be so much better to get all the magnetism/energy to do an "un-interrupted job" - and possibly others have succeeded/come closer to this, but it seems they always use electricity/electromagnetism to overcome the lock-up.

I still follow the www.befreetech.com project a lot - they just had meetings/demonstrations in Cleveland and Chicago - anybody know how they went?
Title: Re: Motor test - input appreciated.
Post by: Jdo300 on April 28, 2006, 10:45:07 AM
Hi Mi,

It looks like your motor design is just like the Tri-Phase motor project that I have been working on for some time here: www.fdp.nu/perendev.

That design can work buf if you go with the all repeling design, you will need to design the shielding to cut down the repelling field on one side of the magnets. Not to say it is impossible to get working without them but it will be worlds harder to tune. I have a prototype that I have been playing around with for some time but I have yet to get it to run in repulsion mode. If you can't get yours to work, you may consider using magets at 90 degrees as I proposed in my article the 90 Degree rule Theory here www.fdp.nu/free_energy.asp?book=90.

God Bless,
Jason O