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Author Topic: Self Siphoning Water  (Read 35969 times)

Offline FreeEnergy

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Self Siphoning Water
« on: August 12, 2010, 08:43:35 PM »
I was messing around drawing and came up with this idea,
If you've studied gravity, water siphoning, and capillary water tubes, you should see a clear picture.
the drawing was done free hand by me so its not to its exact measurements.

- edit -- edit -- edit -- edit -
the water tube should be more like a quarter of a circle shaped type of tube.
and i guess the water reservoir should hold a lot of water, probably more than the tube itself.
but the water would have to be spread out in low depth?
and the hoses should be equal in diameter?

- edit -- edit -- edit -- edit -- edit -

MADE A SMALL CHANGE IN THE DRAWING PLEASE REVIEW.


http://demo.physics.uiuc.edu/lectdemo/scripts/demo_descript.idc?demoid=230



 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2010, 11:02:41 PM by FreeEnergy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Self Siphoning Water
« on: August 12, 2010, 08:43:35 PM »

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2010, 08:48:05 AM »
thanks for that.

this is pretty easy to test out.

anyone else think this will work?

Offline ResinRat2

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Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2010, 02:37:06 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2010, 04:08:07 PM »
  ResinRat,
 The idea is not based on capillary action. I can go into more detail and explain the difference between capillary action, hydraulic theory and how using vacuum is different.
 

                                                                                        Jim

Sorry, I misunderstood

RR2

Offline broli

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 02:42:12 AM »
As is this concept looks flawed considering atmospheric pressure. However you made me thing about an alternative idea. Will post later.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2010, 02:42:12 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2010, 10:11:41 AM »
broli,

please post asap!

:-)

Offline broli

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2010, 01:23:02 PM »
Ok as promised.

Your idea made me think of using 2 concepts to create 1 result. It uses siphoning action and the fact that a high enough water column can overcome athmospheric pressure. However the big IF is whether indeed a siphon action will take place and cause a vacuum at the top of the sealed container instead of break down the water continuity and cause a vacuum at the top of the tubes.

Siphons in vacuum work but combining that with a water column high enough to overcome atmospheric pressure is new to me. If it indeed creates a vacuum at the top of the sealed container then you can guess yourself what benefits that has.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2010, 01:23:02 PM »
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Offline tbird

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2010, 06:22:36 PM »
hi guys,

i've been watching this thread but still can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish.  are you trying to get a continuous flow of water to drive a power source?

tom

Offline therealrasta

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2010, 08:39:34 PM »
This is how I picture it working.. Just with a little air pressure and one way valves. Air tight container.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2010, 08:39:34 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2010, 09:12:42 PM »
Sorry, the water will not flow no matter how much pressure you pump into the container. The air pressure pushes equally in all directions and will not allow flow into the open container space through the one way valve.

Offline therealrasta

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2010, 09:55:04 PM »
Well water cannot be compressed and air can... I guess I was thinking optimistically when I thought the specific gravity of the water would be able to over power the air pressure.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2010, 09:55:04 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2010, 10:07:22 PM »
@Free Energy,
 Here is what I came up with. I decide ed to try doing it on my paint program.
What I like about having a reservoir on top is the "cool" factor. Everybody is used to seeing water drain at the bottom of a pipe, but at the top ?
 I think that is something that would catch people's attention. Of course, the larger the volume of the top reservoir, the more vacuum that would be needed. it's shape could be modified to lessen it's volume.
 Of course, like anything else, to see if it works would take some careful work to have everything set up properly. Then by knowing all the different values, it could be properly tested.
edited to add; and of course, the water level in the top resrvoir would always stay at the same level !!!
end edit


                                                                              Jim

p.s. in my previous post with the 2 cylinders, the 5 pounds of water only creates 1 psi of downward pressure if the surface area of the tube is 5^2". I said it is still only 5 psi the second time I mentioned it. I should have said 1 psi.

in your drawing i don't think the water reservoir will hold the same level of water during its process, the water would run out and air bubbles would go up the tube and it would lose vacuum in the reservoir section. the system would stop. this is why i would use equal diameter tubes. i dont even think a vacuum is necessary, it might help or not gotta try it out.

-edit-
need to try my original idea in this thread!
 

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2010, 10:33:50 PM »
hi guys,

i've been watching this thread but still can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish.  are you trying to get a continuous flow of water to drive a power source?

tom

um, no that's not it at all, complete opposite of that!
are you here tell us these kind of ideas will NEVER work? lol

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2010, 10:52:13 PM »
  Tom,
 Initially, just to see if a continuous flow can be achieved. If so, then that alone would be something.
And since it would have a drain, it would be possible to power a water wheel. Wouldn't generate much energy, but could generate interest in alternative engineering.

  @All,
 Had a thought about filling the system. What is interesting is by back filling it, by putting a tube oover the discharge and creating a greater static head, water could flow thrrough the drain into the resrvoir on top and then into the inlet pipe.
 And then, when the fill tube is removed, it would either work or not work. I think the reservoir being filled to the level of the inlet pipe would help it to flow quicker if it were to work. A small detail that I think is important to remember is that the reservoir could only be filled to just below the level of the inlet pipe to maintain seperation between inlet and discharge sides of the system.

@Free Energy, when the drain tube curves up, it creates a trap that won't let air in. Under your sink, it is called a loop seal that keeps sewer gasses from flowing out of your sink.
                                                                   
edited to add; This might also help some to understand how I think Bessler's wheel worked. I do believe he used water.

which way is the water flowing?


--edit--

never mind, i see it now!
when the water reservoir fills up to a certain water level the water gets flushed!   

Offline tbird

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Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2010, 02:16:35 AM »
Quote
broli
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Posts: 1588

Re: Self Siphoning Water
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2010, 09:23:02 AM »QuoteOk as promised.

Your idea made me think of using 2 concepts to create 1 result. It uses siphoning action and the fact that a high enough water column can overcome athmospheric pressure. However the big IF is whether indeed a siphon action will take place and cause a vacuum at the top of the sealed container instead of break down the water continuity and cause a vacuum at the top of the tubes.

Siphons in vacuum work but combining that with a water column high enough to overcome atmospheric pressure is new to me. If it indeed creates a vacuum at the top of the sealed container then you can guess yourself what benefits that has.

33-34 ft is the magic number.  at about there the "water continuity" you talk about is actually cavitation.  water can no longer stay together.  if less than that height, no worry.  the weight on both sides (to the water level of the tank) of the tube will be equal.  as long as the exit tube is lower than the top of the tank level, flow will happen provided the tank is vented (air can come in).  if you plug this vent, flow will stop and leave a partial vacuum in the tank.  depending on how far below the water level the exit tube ends will determine the amount of vacuum.  as mentioned above, the height above the water level (up and down) in the tube will cancel each other.

at this point if you attach another tank, provided the new tube is full of water too, that is below the exit tube of the first tank, water will flow back to that (lowest) tank.  this will cause the upper exit tube to empty.  if the 2nd tank is higher than the end of the 1st exit tube, and vented, the water will flow out the 1st exit tube.

let me know if anything is not clear.

tom

 

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