I never said the machines produce energy.

If the machine sinks to the bottom, then floats to the top all by itself and repeats that continuously it must necessarily produce energy to make up for the friction losses. You machine doesn't do that, therefore it should be ignored.

I like "ocean wave generators" and there are several developments going on just now. "Wave generators" are a simple concept, but durability is a very big issue, also collecting the electric power from many units deployed over many kilometers is a challenge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_power  .

A further technology is to use the tides and there are at least two ways of doing it:

- one builds a dam that catches the ingoing tide and then the water is let out through turbines (much like the it is done with river dams);
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tidal_power_stations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_power (many more schemes are possible)

- the best I think are marine current turbines http://www.marineturbines.com/ (much like submerged windmills, several developments are ongoing)

I neither live on a lake nor near the see nor at a river or stream, therefore "water power" was never high on my agenda. But it is very windy where I live, so I started to look into wind power (but this is an other topic).

Nevertheless, I can not refrain from posting my favorite wind power:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/solar-wind/4224763
http://www.humdingerwind.com/
(forget Humdinger, the general principle is known, only special belts or special electronics could be patented; do not worry about efficiency for a home built thing, the wind is plentiful when it blows)


When I was referring to the temperature gradient I was thinking about "up and down floaters" like the ones suggested in the discussed patent from Brian.

May be one can build a very efficient "heat pump" based on "up and down floaters"? A wheel type concept probably would be best?

Since Brian (I mean the inventor of the discussed patent) has thought very long about his machines, he would be best suited to add "temperature" to his "Gedankenexperiment" and by such bringing it back to known physics.

Sorry, for posting my junk here.

Greetings, Conrad

brian,

i just had a read of your patent.  from this patent (for machine#1)...

When the top part of the un-expanded machine is abruptly stopped it becomes a expanded machine (FIG. 2). The momentum of the piston-like tanks full of liquid (3a) and the nose-cone full of liquid (4) pulls the piston-like tanks full of liquid (3a) out of tanks 2a and 2c. Expanding the machine.

and (for machine#2)...

The machine free-falls from position 8 to position 9. At position 9 the gas filled tank (20) in the upper part of the machine is abruptly stopped from spinning and falling by the stop in the tank (10) and by the stops on the machine (23). The lower tank (21) filled with heavy liquid keeps spinning and falling. The lower tank (21) unscrews from the upper tank (20) expanding the machine.

i think you have not considered the difference between the liquid resistance and air resistance.  consider why boats don't have brakes like cars do.

the #3 machine just falls into the trap of not considering the extra pressure at depth.  this has to be accounted for by some means.  i couldn't get the drawings to download so not sure how it works.  just from the readings, it seems to have too many assumptions that are not real, not to mention the complexity (way too many things to go wrong).

i will give you credit for a great imagination!!  keep at it, something will come.

tom

i will give you credit for a great imagination!!  keep at it, something will come.

Not so. This should not be encouraged.

The patent office did not have any problem understanding the machines.

iThe patent office did not have any problem understanding the machines.

Tf the reason you say that is because you've been issued a patent and you think just that makes it worth more than the paper it's written on you're badly mistaken. If the buyer doesn't understand it you'll be the one holding the bag having spent tons of money to get the patent. Losers like you who have spent thousands for worthless patents such as this one are countless.