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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: ashtweth_nihilisti on April 19, 2006, 02:46:35 AM

Title: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on April 19, 2006, 02:46:35 AM
hi guys,

im from the Rvreplication yahoo group along with kones evgray group. we have been for about the last year or so try to extract LC resonance into a usable work.
to aquire resoannce we use the RV method which is simply by using two three phase motors having the prime mover wired fro high voltage and using he third phase through capacitors and tuning the run cap to the lowest draw, whilst having the alternator capcitors on an identical three phase motor acting as a generator but wired for low voltage high current.

usually we get 12 to 1 virtual to real, so far hector the invetor has been the only one to be able to loop and 'tune' the Rv for usfull work.
he posts the Rv or rotor verter looped sch over at

here is the latest by one of the engineers dfedicated to try and extract LC resonance into usfull work, has any body here gone down this road?
we have many 'ideas' but so far would like to hear from others exeriences if at all they exist.

Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: FredWalter on April 19, 2006, 08:14:36 PM
so far hector the invetor has been the only one to be able to loop and 'tune' the Rv for usfull work.

Has anyone seen Hector's setup and been able to verify that his setup actually does what he claims it does? Or is everyone just taking Hector's word that his setup works as described?
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on April 20, 2006, 03:01:06 AM
well it that depends, if you simply need verification that two three pahse motors coupled together with capacitor boxs will give a virtual to one of 12 on average, most of the community at the yahoo group have done this, including myself,  have we had NOT had success extracting  yet.

but one person has extracted OU, norman wootan did a test and posted it on keely net, there he used a pmi PM dc motor belt driven acting as a generator.
ofcause this inst off the looped sch metic posted at the very last page of te internet, but is still quiet a valid test from a reliable source.

its is very hard for those never having done the exper4iment to tune the condition, many experiences have been close but nothing has been replicated to hectors looped resutls yet. thats not saying it cannot be though, and of all the positive feedback and results i have conducted, it is in no way influencing my decision to keep looking on this matter.

dont let this spook your investigation into the RV  ;)
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: FredWalter on April 20, 2006, 03:46:22 AM
if you simply need verification that two three pahse motors coupled together with capacitor boxs will give a virtual to one of 12 on average, most of the community at the yahoo group have done this, including myself

What does "virtual to one of 12" mean?

one person has extracted OU, norman wootan did a test and posted it on keely net, there he used a pmi PM dc motor belt driven acting as a generator.

Do you have an URL for this? Does it contain lots of photos and explicit instructions?

A while back I bought a few small PMI "ServoDisc" motors off ebay, the 9cm in diameter ones if I recall correctly. Several were damaged during shipping, but I think I have two that work around here somewhere. I bought them for a direct-drive windpower project before I found out that their voltage/RPM characteristics were incompatable with direct-drive wind generators.

dont let this spook your investigation into the RV  ;)

Well... generally when no one (except the original inventor) can replicate something, and when there is no independent verification that the original inventor ever did build what he claims to have built... I am skeptical.

But I do have two PMI motors, and if they match with what Norman used, well... I have no other use for these motors.
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on April 20, 2006, 05:11:39 AM
If you look at the picture atached,  you can calculate the input power (96W at PF=1) and the virtual circulating power.

The generator current is 5.1A. As the load is connected in delta, the VIRTUAL power (PF=0) circulating in the circuit is 203 * 5.1 * 1.732 =1793W.

The trick is now to transfer the potential (at the voltage node) to a capacitor that is discharged to transfer its POWER to a PF=1 energy mode. As such you 'plug' more power out than in.

Tapping the 3PH resonance energy can be done (theoretically) with 3x diode
plugs or a single 3PH FWBR or 3x FWBR power extraction (res-clipping) circuits. In a looped design H used to impedance match it to the battery (which should act as capacitor, see point 1 amplification).


This is the circuit for the fully looped roto-verter. There is only one battery and it is shown as being both charged and discharged simultaneously. Recently it has been postulated that  improvement would be to use two batteries in an alternating battery bank, more on this will be detailed below.

The PM (prime mover) is tuned to parallel semi resonance with the Cap box, a parallel resonance will appear as a higher impedance to an external signal (mains in this case) as the semi resonance is tuned.

The Power factor will go towards 1 and the current will be minimized. The second motor(M2) is run as an induction generator if you put a capacitance across a pair of leads it  can be tuned to series semi resonate (at 60hz) by varying the capacitance.

 The impedance will decrease as the pairs reactance are tuned to cancel each other. At the same time the current in the series loop will increase. The increased current in M2 will reflect as a load to the PM and its current will rise with the M2 load.

 Now you can measure a large virtual current flowing in the M2&cap loop. if everything is set up correctly one can see in excess of 14:1 virtual current  to PM real current.  One of  the basic theories is that one can  extract a percentage of the resonance energy without killing the resonance by  using a diode plug and a synchronous extraction circuit.

 The trick being you extract the energy from the plug cap that is static as the other cap is being charged. Form the schematic one can see that there are three coupled caps that connect to three coupled 10:1 trifos (transformers) that are connected in Y.  note these are 120vac to 12vac trifos  M2 will be set to resonate at 220vac 60hz   the secondaries of the trifos feed a small block labeled diodes.

Diodes are an electronic device that has two electrodes or terminals and is used especially as a rectifier and enables the current to be extracted with out effecting the resonant action. The trifos (transformers) are part of the resonant loop with M2. The size of the extraction plug is IMPORTANT!

With no load is does nothing. It takes some cycles to become fully charged. This goes unnoticed at RV with "normal" cap values after then it just keeps the charges and does nothing. But if you pulse-discharge the cap after every cycle, you will see the effect. The bigger the extraction cap, the more the system detunes, as you have in principle 2 resonance frequencies, or in other words, charging the cap takes a bit longer than discharging, as you have to charge 2 caps (higher capacitance->lower frequency) and discharge just 1 cap (lower capacitance->higher frequency).

But the smaller the X-cap, the fewer energy you can extract per cycle, and the more ohmic losses you will over the time, as you have to pump the current more often through the wires. The trick is to find the "middle course". Tuning. If you want to discharge your X-cap fully after every cycle, you should try normal cap to X-cap -> 4 to1 or 5 to 1 capacitance ratio as recommended by hector the inventor.

The task is to loop with the trifos (transformers) as part of the resonance and the battery
part of the resonance as well.  If one just wanted to resonate the trifos one could put a cap(of the right value) on the second Aries.  But the resonance capacitance is supposed to come from the battery. Further suggestions have considered that a component network needs to be in place with the battery   that will allow it to respond as capacitor would in the resonant circuit. Note the plug circuit is not that network.

It has since been advised that You need to run a circuit that can switch the battery in and out for charging. AS Any attempt to charge a battery and deliver power at the same
time does not work. The battery must be switched away from the inverter, and another battery switched in, to continue the running of the inverter.

 This sequence can be done with a timer or by monitoring the battery voltages.  Another technique is to run a large value capacitor as the secondary source and oscillate the charging mode and delivery mode between the battery and the capacitor. Resonating the Transformer at any frequency will not make any difference to whether the battery will charge or not, while the circuit is closed looped.

 The battery requires to be charged at least 2 or 3 volts higher than its rating to ever be charge. If you do this it means the Inverter is now drawing more current because of the higher voltage. As the inverter uses more current it pulls the charging voltage back
down, so it is a no win situation.

 The key is to use the above combinations or use a voltage regulator between the battery and the inverter where the inverter is kept at the original battery voltage and the battery can charge at a higher voltage level.

What?s going on here (based on numbers )is the virtual circulating current in the alt is more 17 times greater than the real 96w power(pf=1) being input to the PM.

To get some real energy (PF=1) out of the virtual circulating (V&C 90deg out)(pf=0) you use the diode plug arrangement. You have to either use a synchronous pulse extractor circuit (see rains PDF) or a  split cap diode plug configuration.

 Look at the diode and cap pulse recovery circuits near the trifos that are switching the 12vdc up to high volts.  The volts on an inductor V=L*di/dt. If you leave the volts on after the transition (pulse mode) you start dissipating power (losing energy). So the right timing is important when trying to maximize energy recovered.

Ed has been the closest I know of to getting the replicated results from hectors description on Dons page. Ed is still trying to fine tune and allow the configuration to behave in the manner hectors describes. We have since acquired more Q and A from hector regarding the laymen?s side of the looping arrangement.

A-TIP RF rules apply

Q: Could it be that the trifos in hectors schematic are really homo-polar types for RE conversion????? The magic gain in the system is in fact there??? IF so we need to get busy cutting and tuning pipes of differing diameter and equal mass?

RF and POWER transformer rules apply. I tested all of them, You got Alternator VOLTAGE relative to the IMPEDANCE and capacity Hi voltage lower capacitance  LOW VOLTAGE HI CAPACITANCE

Sample 200v 100mF , 20V 1000mf , 10v 2000mf.Interesting to note than CORE density is relative to L1 HV to L2 LV were CORE defines L1,L2 Q relation were null zone is within CORE itself (reread postings relative to ferro-resonance RECORDING commentary)

Being alternator PM then C can be in a value to acquire charge in the logarithmic resonant half waves (DIODE PLUG ) wherever on reverse induction we need to maintain a pressure wall reflective to the source to maintain core self excitation. Values need to be rotary standing wave within a given voltage value determining the broad banding of
signal (in this case Hyper signal)

The swing of particles within mater from + electron Values to Negative POSITRON ones in hyper dimensional fabric Were electron becomes elektron With K charging energy from time reversal hyper signal is what makes looping self sustaining but at same time DEGAUSES and transforms LOCAL time-space into a singularity.

Q- Maybe the impedance match trick is to take the homo-polar second Aries and drive
 the power trifo primaries with it.

A- On RF the trick is FEEDING a HI Q 60CPS LC with the battery being a plug capacitor load on it Compensate For VARACTOR detuning effect Its no Mystery but a matching and in vitro application Issue.

The need to keep to the BASIC essential were the OU transform Manifest is the key
In reality there is no secret ... just a need to "FOCUS" On what is already done.

Remember R represents a series L to L and series C to C and reflects as such a purely resistive load were RA and RV are theoretically in phase at a 0 angle or POINT in SPACE, like the center of a valance in equilibrium.

So the REAL value is a virtual Ampere load as seen by the pure LC were Voltage is not reflecting the reality of that point but shifted to other point within the circuit ... Node , Anti-node.  In ZPE and magnetic amplification this is the difficulty the experts stumble and fall face into the reality every part parameter reflects in the other.

A battery by sample , its L its R and its C ,It has an Intrinsic resonant value as an unit or its parts , its a self tuning on state device with those R,C,L values being VARIABLES within a working unit.

This is the Reason the Kone motor was working in OU - non OU cycles and reason
Engineers failed to analyze properly, ED also met the wave within the Wave oscillations in a partial loop. Idea is to optimize energy use then to be able to use OU transform
one. Battery as seen by L from a rising AC half sine-wave is C "capacitance" when CL frequency Equals THE WAVE FREQUENCY POWER MULTIPLIES BY 1.618 IN LOGARITMIC EMA , this multiplied also by Q EMA factor and gives OU gain over Isotropic virtual dipole ..

A need to Know in deep Bedini and KONE design and the term I use that BEDINI just POWER FACTOR corrected his battery. Increase C in LRC to compensate R broad banding loss.  Step By step the knowledge is acquired and is the  reason for the RV tool in first place , learn to produce radiant energy and how it manifest in the rotor conversion effect, impedance match in power engineering applications using 3rd generation technology .. (Energy saving) and EMA R&D.

The reverse of apparent loss is GAIN.  If mathematically we have Sine & cosine is obvious in energy we got same manifest that represent energy transform  The famous
Negentrophy Bearden mentioned so much but failed to demonstrate others.

A-From ED -If the diode plug recovery circuit/impedance match test with the 10:1 trifos is successful then ill sit down and try to figure out how one can connect three trifos & plugs to a single battery.

A- Yes the system needs to be in resonance to get any gain out of it. As I understand, the one vectoring cap gets the alternator to generate but the three other caps in series with their respective transformers and motor windings should form the resonant LC tank circuit while the whole system is connected in loop mode.

I guess it is really bitchy to tune Good finely tunable cap banks are needed for that.. H has mentioned, that the three caps were about 100uF each. It?s simple - the small rectangular boxes beneath the word diodes are the diode bridge rectifiers.

Q- So the operative prase being "tuned transformer"  i have set all the elements up and connected  everything  according to Hs original looped RV diagram and used  bridge rectifiers in the block called diodes  I haven?t yet been able to match the same results  but interesting just the same.

A-The H's looped system works so, that the output of the each tuned transformer is separately rectified using the diode bridge rectifier and then the + outputs of all rectifiers are tied together and go to battery and inverter via the measurement shunts. This system with 3 separately rectified trafos gives minimal pulsation and smoothest DC current
at the tied rectifier outputs (further smoothed out by the battery itself).

A-The three transformers Ed has are 10:1  120vac to 12vac @25aac power transformers. These are the ones i used when i tried to loop. I bought them here (model MD725).

When I (ED)  tried to loop they were not in resonance from the secondary side (which i later came to the understanding was necessary) so the attempt was way UU (under unity)  as I understand it we are basically trying to set up a standing node in the battery its like the RLC light bulb standing node experiment that neither of us have yet to perfect. The XL is supposed to cancel out the XC and the resistive element is supposed to be on the node with lots of current and little voltage(series resonant circuit) the looped RV is supposed to generate the same result only in this case we have the trifos secondary induced resonance, impedance matching, RF rules ,diodes, a battery. etc to complicate

The light bulb experiment is from Dans compilation and show in the radiant energy light bulb section in the comp

A- About resonating the 120:12V 25AAC transformer.

Perhaps you did this way - you inputted 120V and tried to see the voltage resonance by adding capacitors to the 12V side. Amps went higher and higher and no sign of voltage rise ?

If you did so you attempted to do the resonance already near the transformer saturation and adding capacitors to the 12V side that has low inductance requires really a lot of them.

Here are important tips for resonance! I assume you have 60hz 120VAC grid.

 * input 120/4 = 30V to the 120V side and add a lot of capacitors (over 200uF) to see the voltage resonance from 3V to 12V or more. (not very good idea as 12V side is low inductance)

* increase the input freq to 4x60=240hz. Now you can use up to 120V input
and use a 4^2=16x smaller resonance capacitor in the output!!! If you increase the freq 4x your resonance capacitor required will be 16x less.

* take (4x120VAC) 480VAC : 120VAC transformer. Use normal grid 120VAC into
480VAC, just like running a RV - now you have room for the resonance. Output 120VAC winding has higher voltage/impedance so you will require optimal amount of capacitance (perhaps 50-200uF) to resonate it.

* optimal ratio 5:1, (also don?t resonate over the current rating in the secondary or that transformer will get hot and saturate, amperage turn determines the magnetic field and saturation parameters that must not be exceeded)

A- Resonating transformers is something I have done a lot of in the past. The idea of using a computer and sending tones is the trick. What I use too do was put in a music CD and drive the output combining the stereo signals together with resistors into an electronic circuit used for saving the wear on mechanical ignition points. These circuits use a very low current signal that drives a FET too then pulse your ignition coil in your older vehicles.

Now if you do drive an ignition coil with a spark gap you will hear the music through the spark, (weird) but as you continue too watch, there are particular mixed tones that produce unusual plasma and the current drops right off. Personally I like these coils which are really transformers because they are designed for high frequency operation.

The problem with mains type transformers is that there is much inductance that robs a lot of the action. But it can still be done if you have the right load on the transformer as this changes its operating frequency too a higher level, and with 2 mixed tones it will hit resonance. When you run 2 harmonics together a new tone develops and I have found this is the key for the transformer operation.

I guess too some degree this is like having a carrier wave that allows the energy too ride on the higher frequency. Now also you can do it differently and I think it is actually better.

What you do is pulse in one short pulse then another one a few milliseconds latter being shorter again then a few milliseconds latter the slightly longer one again and so on.

 You will hear the transformer undergoing a strange tone where it develops a new resonating frequency of a lower value.

A- In Pure "L"

The Idea is to charge coil and "core" (If any) to saturation being the collapse discharge the OU producing element.

IN Pure "LC"

Idea is to charge a capacitor to max potential within a resonant circuit with the lowest power usage to prime mover, RV alternator does that already .. OU using reverse resonant induction Lab Tested & OU L being impedance matched to C as to attain EMA gain from M field.

PM induction RV & Muller RV

Here POWER factor & resonance intermix were PM " M field " saturates a COIL & core as to cause a charge resulting in OU potential as it gains power from M field "EMA " and ZPE "C" components. JM charger , RV & trans-verter play big issue here  (LC). Current problem is attaining the PM induced OU states and understanding how to transfer this power as a vector to a battery.

Check looped RV schematic

If by sample I got 200V at 10 Amps we have to figure that is the same as 20v at 100A at alternators end, in that the capacitance and impedance is responding to the  same proportion but increasing its Q to the hilt x10 Q into extreme "OU" states.

Then the battery and its charge becomes a VARACTOR diode in a series with this LC, the battery power is determined by the amperes in and by amperes out within a virtual load.The inverter then becomes R in parallel with the source which then becomes added to the series LC vector source and then the RV output becomes a current vector within the R component. This is where the battery becomes a varactor in a negative resistor state where as such becomes C and L as the reverse induction is attained.

 RV output becomes the virtual higher VOLTAGE battery to the LOAD where the current transfers from lower state in a current reversal to higher state one. The voltage differential causes reversed voltage to reverse current to the lower power region into the battery R and becomes a virtual shunt regulator, in this case inverter.

In RV schematic the symbol of transformers and diodes from the RV
alternator represent the down conversion of voltage and increase of current and this is done using RF engineering rules.

Those rules are simpler if using a Muller generator but issues are the same. Being  the sum of the vectored DC must relate to battery parameter and your inverter specifics and within a range of 10 to 15 volts DC as to play safe, current & Volt ampere is where the magic is, the battery as i have mentioned a million times is a VARACTOR LOAD relative to the SOURCE impedance, to maintain OU transform from a ZERO point the
RESONANCE TENSOR must be maintained within all circuit elements , so its time to get an inverter, power up the RV from a DC battery and start vectoring your generator output into the battery and load stream.

As a simple shunt is all that is needed to demonstrate OU (Current charging battery ) and a voltmeter to monitor voltage 12.7 optimal. A series of loads must be provided to prevent overcharge and create the hyper wave OU- non-OU HI-LOW wave cycles normal to a well tuned system . regulating load can be at any stage.

ED was working on this preliminary and got wave effect as described the  principle is quite well demonstrated issue is to transfer it to a working physical model within closed loop and mitigate the impedance mismatch problems (Main problem for many).

Tips: Coil voltage as DC must be greater than battery real load must be battery not a resistor. he real POWER then becomes voltage differential of source relative to battery multiplied by the amperage ...(Charge) "OU" he recirculation power is imaginary "virtual" power within a local singularity created by the device as a whole.
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on April 20, 2006, 05:13:38 AM
here is the RE-OU ebook for more detailed thoery, plus it contains norman wootans keelynet post.
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: FredWalter on April 21, 2006, 05:28:05 PM

I've had some bad experiences with BAP, the fellow that owns/runs nuenergy. As a result, I am very skeptical of anything that he gets behind, unless there is a lot of independent verification of his claims.

The fact that Hector is associated with BAP, makes me very skeptical of anything that Hector claims.

Add in the fact that, in over 4 years, no-one has been able to reproduce Hector's 'overunity' device, well...

I think when I do find those two PMI servodisc motors, instead of wasting time (and money) trying to reproduce Hector's device, I'm going to make new stators for them, and use them as small windmill generators. Windmills are 'free-energy' devices that I know work.
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on April 22, 2006, 02:31:00 AM
fred, BAP only featured hectors stuff on his site, he is in no way affiliated with hector
 there is only two sites in existance that feature hectors stuff so i think H had no choice but to link that material.

now there is discussion yahoo groups, and many more replications of hectors, every one can get the OU reading but extracting it takes alot of 'tuning' skills.
recently the discussion is that the radient energy is best suited to charge batteries, as thats where the 'open' system resides

it is in no way out of reach or fake. you can see your self by taking two simple 3 phases motors connecting them with a capacitor bank and measuring the phase angle in the alternator out put (i suggest using the prime mover in a solar battery charging dc input through an inverter)

Dc in and DC out would be ideal, you can diode plug extract from the alt, but most extract too much and bog down the priome mover, resonance wont give you all its secrets easily, you must vector the NODES of the the voltage and current

the understanding so far is that with the resoannce created in teh ALT, a standing wave is created, and creats NODES these in fact scroll with in the resonant media and can be of higher and or lower freq. And furtehr the most practical way to extract this into usefull work is infact to use it to charge a battery or loop.

good luck with the pmi,  please keep us informed of your progress

Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on May 17, 2006, 10:18:08 AM
i forgot to add

quote from hector

3 ABC phases  conected to 3 capacitors to 3 bridges in series and a common
DC load or split tripleflux load .... ( Good for electrolisys reactor )

as basic , remember VECTOR output is DC .. and must Equal ampere load else
it shuts down it in plug ,voltage doubler or bridge configuration..

plus this is the latest on the resonance collection
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: uberdeity on May 26, 2006, 11:05:45 AM
Hey, guys. Just a newbie here, but it seems that it's easy to extract the extra energy if it exists other than in calcs;

If you can get a reading showing 1793W with an input of 96W, why not use the output to drive a motor? Or a heater or something?

Surely if there is a measurable point with enough voltage and enough current to give over a kW of power output you'd be able to clip a pair of croc-clips between that point and ground and get an output? Otherwise isn't it just a mathematical curiosity?
Title: Re: ideas how to collect the resonance power from high voltage
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on May 27, 2006, 02:33:49 AM
series resonance is tricky ;)

if you just simply attach a resitive load it will bog down the prime mover, there are advanced ways of tuning it and creating standing waves and taping the 'nodes' of these from the alternator side, or what the inventor calls a tripple flux capacitor setting, but thats so far been too far advanced for this and a few other replicators to extract, or we are too lazy and stupid to tune it right  ;D so far this is the current circuit the group is working on as i right this

here is a quick shot off simulation so you will see as the voltage
hits a level from resonance or anything, the FET auto switches on and
goes thankyou I will take that.

  I use this circuit concept all the time in my other circuit designs,
and didn't think mate, too just draw it out as a simple extraction
circuit on its own.

The component values will allow you too adjust clipping off the
resonant peaks from 80volts upto 300volts no problem with the
adjustable resistor on the circuit.

  If you want higher voltage collection you only need too change the
Zener diode value too a high voltage rating or just whack another
Zener in series with it.

  The only thing I didn't mark on the diagram was the FET model because
it all depends what voltage they want too play with, but the IGBT part
number I gave you before will be perfect. That's the 1200volt dude.

  Its just a perfect little circuit for tapping into the RV if you want
too, or on any DC motor collecting BEMF or whatever, and you can
adjust by turning the potentiometer how high or low of the peak
voltages you want.

But with the RV I have found you want the energy circulating in the
motor and left alone, but that's my belief so far and needs
-end quote