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Author Topic: vetting god  (Read 36469 times)

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2010, 11:41:39 AM »
11:11

I really think that your contributions here are absolutely NOT required.  I have never read such drivel on any forum ever.  I'd be glad if you could spare us this nonsense.  I'm amazed that Wilby tolerates having your posts at all.  You are monopolising what could otherwise be an interesting thread.  May I, for one, impose on you to either get on topic or get off the thread? It is absolutely NOT of interest what you think.  Clearly you've never managed the art.

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2010, 11:41:39 AM »

Online ramset

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #76 on: August 07, 2010, 01:45:38 PM »
                                                           




                                                                             

                               
                                   

                               .
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 04:35:58 PM by ramset »

Online ramset

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #77 on: August 07, 2010, 04:43:33 PM »




              If you have some material evidence or a logical proof, great! present it.


                                                            I present   Love
                             
                                         I gave it a good think![praying and such]
 
                                 If I were just a pile of DNA, Morphing into whatever ?
                                                              Why do I love?

                                                        Its a design feature!

                                           I could smother you in examples of love!
                                                                 Chetty


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Re: vetting god
« Reply #77 on: August 07, 2010, 04:43:33 PM »
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Offline tak22

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #78 on: August 07, 2010, 10:33:20 PM »
11:11 speaks drivel? There's wisdom to be found in those 'ramblings', so learn to learn from
everything you read, and use your expression of distaste sparingly and carefully.

Quote
A portrait of intellectual (smart) fools

There are all kinds of fools, but the most intriguing ones are the bright fools. They appear to be intelligent and even religious, but they still make a mess of their lives because of their lack of wisdom. They feel miserable, because they don't understand that the pathway to happiness is not power and fame but wisdom and understanding. Here is a composite picture of the well-educated smart fools:

- They win the whole world but lose their own souls.
- They live as if they will never die.
- They want to play God, because they think that God either does not exist or he does not care.
- They are more concerned about looking good than acting right.
- Their conscience is seared by greed and arrogance.
- They have too much knowledge and information but very little human understanding.
- Their hubris prevents them from listening to words of wisdom from others.
- They are too busy defending and justifying their actions that they are not able to learn from their mistakes.
- They are unaware of their own blind spots and foolishness.
- Their judgments are often clouded and distorted by false assumptions, biases and self-interests.
- Their course of action is often dictated by how to win the turf-war rather than how to resolve the conflict.
- They like to hide behind their position of authority and overrule good decisions.
- They subscribe to dominant paradigms and conventional wisdoms and resent innovative solutions.
- They intellectualize everything and rarely consider the spiritual and humane dimensions of their actions.
- They are guided by expediency rather than principles.
- They often lose big by gaining small advantages.
- They would not hesitate to lie to cover up their wrong doings.
- They never say what they mean and never mean what they say.
- They use people and exploit relationships for their own gains.
- They don't have the courage to stand up for what is right and just.
- Their world is very small, because they only live for themselves.
- They think that they are smart enough to fool everyone including God.
- They don't recognize their boundaries and limitations.
- They are always ready to make deals, without realizing that they may have dealt away their souls to the devil.
- When the house they built collapses, they even do not realize that it has been built on sand.

tak

Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2010, 02:53:28 AM »

More fatuous platitudes?  And this is what?  Wisdom?  A guarantee for happiness - IF that's 11.11's mission in life - is self-satisfaction.  It seems that 11.11 has secured that happiness - is my opinion.  It is a happiness that, frankly, I'd happily do without.  Your standard parrot would do a better job of preaching.  If 11.11 had the modesty to realise he was off topic I would be more inclined to accuse him of wisdom.  As it is he appears to be bereft and I rather suspect that he has simply given us a self-portrait in that long list of vacuous and irrelevant observations.  I'd copy them as reference if I thought it mattered.


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Re: vetting god
« Reply #79 on: August 08, 2010, 02:53:28 AM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #80 on: August 08, 2010, 05:44:31 AM »



              If you have some material evidence or a logical proof, great! present it.


                                                            I present   Love
                             
                                         I gave it a good think![praying and such]
 
                                 If I were just a pile of DNA, Morphing into whatever ?
                                                              Why do I love?

                                                        Its a design feature!

                                           I could smother you in examples of love!
                                                                 Chetty
chetty... i am very disappointed. you obviously haven't been paying attention... 'presenting love' and then attributing 'why you love' to a design feature of god is a logical fallacy. it does not follow.

quit being so lazy and learn what logic is. here i even made a clicky thing for you, since you appear to require someone holding your hand...

Online ramset

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2010, 01:40:02 PM »
                                                                          Wilbyi
                                                                            Ok
                                                        I will look at  the clicky thing,
                                                  maybe then I'll understand your rules.
                                                                          Chetty

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: vetting god
« Reply #81 on: August 09, 2010, 01:40:02 PM »
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Online ramset

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2010, 01:42:42 AM »

                               HHMMmm...............
                             
                                   I'll be Back!
                     [Spoken like a California Governor.]

Online ramset

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #83 on: August 31, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »
WilbyInebriated,
Quote:
people, all people, have a need to share a bit of themselves with others.
------------------------------------

                                 Design feature!!
                    [not optional, standatrd equipment]
                                     Hows it go?

          I[the big "I"] could live anywhere in the universe,
                         But I chose to live in "YOU"!
                                  Even Rainmen!
                        Perhaps especially "RainMen"!
                                   
                                          Chetty

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: vetting god
« Reply #83 on: August 31, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #84 on: September 01, 2010, 05:19:13 AM »
Wilby - for what it's worth, here's my take.  God - thus far - has been appropriated by mere mortals and these mere mortals presume to 'speak on behalf of God'.  Which is absurd.  Religion is that systematic appropriation of that right.  And religion is best served where it preys on guilt and the promotion of a sense of obligation, where sins can be expiated - only at a price.  Big subject. 

So.  There are a few considerations related to religion.  The one is the presumption of authority - which is always questionable. And then there's the ability to exploit a message to any self-serving purpose - thereby corrupting any moral basis of religion.  Which is historically evident and seems to be traditional.  The 'exclusivity' that belongs to religion is barbaric and presumptive and does little to promote the general well-being of the individual - or even alleviate the suffering of the human condition. 

But we do have reason - and it is reasonable to assume a beginning and it is thereby also reasonable to recognise that, in as much as we were not 'responsible' for that 'beginning' then someone or something may be.  And where it may not be entirely logical - it is, nonethelss, 'understandable' to attribute that beginning to 'God'.  That we then apply 'human properties' to God - is perhaps a little pretentious - but it's kind of understandable and it's a kind of bench mark.  We're definitely not PERFECT and one hopes that 'deep inside' the potential to be 'perfect' would be nice.  Therefore, by contrast to us - perhaps that God like being - is perfect.  Hopefully. 

So, in it's way God represents an aspiration - of sorts.  NOW.  What I think is this.  Religion - ALL religion - bastardises the human condition - where and if it constantly reminds us of a collective guilt - this wild unsolicited, undeserved inheritance that we got from some clumsy choices that some distant forebear may have made.  Frankly if God is willing to punish everyone in such a way - then he's somewhat tyrannical and somewhat unforgiving.  Not the kind of God I'd care to know.  Certainly not PERFECT.  However.  If and where religion advances a 'greater understanding' and, as Chet keeps saying 'love' - then that's definitely in line with PERFECTION.  It's the kind of aspirational high that I think could keep the entire human race more or less motivated and motorised. 

But it's a really deep subject.  We are all hidebound by evolutionary constraints.  And I wonder if there are sufficient natural pressures to induce greater evolutionary adaptations.  But what we do have, collectively, is a brain.  And where - to date - evolution has depended on those external pressures - I wonder if we are not now evolving a greater capacity to discover things like 'anti gravity' - perpetual motion - time travel - all those things - subjects - that are, outside of these forums - considered impolite subjects for discussion.  But which, nonetheless, are preferred states of being and which I, personally, would consider more perfect than our present lot. 

In other words - the 'reach' into new fields of endeavours - into better adaptations - into perfection - rests on a kind of collective reach which is taking over from Nature's usual methods of evolutionary adaptation.  In other words - it's not necessarily a question of survival.  In fact it may be - in the long term.  But, by and large it's the cherry - the improved condition of survival.  And since this has NOTHING to do with religion and everything to do with logic  - and as our 'logic' forges this path so to speak - then - that is the same logic that first perceived of the state of perfection.  And that concept of a state of perfection is, in turn, vested in the concept of a 'creator' at the beginning - who, hopefully, is greater than us mere mortals.

Therefore do I believe in God.  And therefore do I absolutely NOT subscribe to any religion.  And that's my tuppence worth.  ;D

Kindest as ever,
Rosie

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2010, 05:32:13 PM »
it's amazing to me that after all of the discovery and understanding of thousands of years of observation and research, by the some of the best minds our world has produced - so many people prefer to believe bronze age goatherders, about whom we know little except they were incredibly ignorant by today's standards and steeped in superstition. these people sought to explain what they couldn't understand by creating myths about god(s) that created and ruled the earth and the stars. in their case, it was understandable, they didn't have the incredible knowledge we do today, nor the tools to explore and understand the universe that we now have. less understandable to me is why many prefer to cling to the superstitions they created in those ancient times.

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2010, 05:32:13 PM »
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Offline Rosemary Ainslie

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #86 on: September 03, 2010, 08:38:41 AM »
it's amazing to me that after all of the discovery and understanding of thousands of years of observation and research, by the some of the best minds our world has produced - so many people prefer to believe bronze age goatherders, about whom we know little except they were incredibly ignorant by today's standards and steeped in superstition. these people sought to explain what they couldn't understand by creating myths about god(s) that created and ruled the earth and the stars. in their case, it was understandable, they didn't have the incredible knowledge we do today, nor the tools to explore and understand the universe that we now have. less understandable to me is why many prefer to cling to the superstitions they created in those ancient times.

Agreed.  I can only argue this in terms of Christianity as it's the only religion I know anything about.  Here's the thing.  There are claims made by reputable witnesses that Jesus walked on water, stilled the storm, fed the thousands, healed the sick, and on and on.  We can discount that evidence as 'pure fabrication' or we can acknowledge the truth of it.  Either way.  To my own interpretation of the central message here - is that Christ continually advised us that we need do no more than 'ask' and it will be granted'.   Apparently at all stages of this mission of his he kept reminding the healed, or those happy beneficiaries of those multiple miracles - that they could now do so simply by exercising their own 'faith'.  In other words - the central message here is 'have faith' ask away - and it will be granted.  Nothing is out of reach. Dream your dreams. 

Now.  To my way of thinking - whether Christ was God's anointed son - or wether he was just the most extraordinary and charismatic person - what can't be argued that he literally 'gave his life' so that we'd get rid of 'guilt' which seems to be some kind of archetypal response that we're literally born with.  That's a pretty generous gesture and I'm sure that I, for one, certainly appreciate it.  The trouble is that it didn't seem to work.  His great historical contribution to the human psyche to FREE it of guilt was then appropriated by the Church who distorted the message to KEEP REMINDING us of our guilt.  DEFER your gratifications and satisfactions - until you get to heaven.   ::)

It is my opinion that this appropriation of authority to interepret Christ's message actually diametrically contradicts the core message in Christianity.  In effect - our actual heritage is freedom from guilt which religion finds offensive - and it is RELIGION or the CHURCH that requires that we are not thereby 'freed'.  In effect they require those shackles and the more the better.  Very exploitable.

So.  I actually think that man's evolutionary reach is dependant on 'loosening the shackles' of guilt and then loosening the 'dreams' that I suspect we all yearn for - and then, indeed - one could, perhaps, get a general improvement in the human condition.

But the actual question then is how much of these 'reportings' are the result of susperstition.  There's no way here to find an answer until we actually manage time travel.  So.  Perhaps the question could be rephrased to the object lessons in those simple belief structures.  Where they are simply tools to exploit the persistent deprived conditions of living and life - then clearly they're corrupted.  And where they point to an expanded good will and well being and fulfillment of dreams - then perhaps they are not so evidently corrupted.  But both object lessons can result both inside religion and outside religion.  And depending on the self serving nature of those dreams, or otherwise, then the truth is that even unshackled dreams can be dangerously corruptible.

So.  Best thing for me personally is to 'eschew' religion and follow some reach towards the collective good of humanity and that relies - not on belief structures but logic. 

And I have no trouble, logically, in understanding that Jesus was trying to rid us of our collective guilt.  Very desirable.  And certainly required if we're to challenge the apparent constraints of the 'forces' and the rest.   ;D

Kindest as ever,
Rosie

Offline stevensrd1

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #87 on: September 28, 2010, 02:39:09 PM »
You know I can not say I know any gods of any stories, or myths, or by any religions. The world is so full of many religions. Like fads over the ages they come and go. The greek gods is just such a story. That was before the biblical stories. Like a fad it came and went. Strange how back then so many would swear upon anything that zeus was real, yet today few if any would. This is what is happening to the modern day biblical religion. And thats what many dont like. Personally it dont matter to me, religions serve a purpose for a time, to ease minds and worries, in hopes something greater loves them. Why? Perhaps because our love for ourselves or others simply is not enough to supply what we need, so as an escape to this misery of not enough love and to many problems or worries we as a species invent gods, and pretend our gods love us and make us special, and will solve our problems. Its an escape from the insanity of reality and the lack of love therein. Its not really a bad thing,,tho many bad things have been done over or in the name of gods and religions. This is the truth, plain and simple, if such a thing can be simplified. Faith is a strange thing, its a way to believe something with no proof,,and in many cases with no results even. And I am not saying that is a bad thing, it serves a need, fills a hole or bridges a mental gap which is lacking in understanding. We all need that sometimes, but how often do we see it for what it really is? Strangely we are already gods, compared to animals, to lower life forms, over the tiny creatures. Maybe the question is how good are we at being these gods. And perhaps that is why we cant imagine any greater god being better then we are. Perhaps that is why all of humanities religions have gods that are not absolute unconditional love, but usually say something to the effect do what I say or do it my way or perish ,,or be destroyed. I find it odd some cant see this, even in the modern biblical religion it says their god is unconditional love, but then in the next phrase that would be said sooner or later,,that you must obey/serve and do what god says or go to hell, or some even say burn forever in he-double-hockysticks...And that is not what an all loving god of unconditional love would say, as anyone with a bit of common sense would know that. That is not a put down of the biblical religion itself as I think all religions world wide, all through the ages, all are made up. But they did serve a psychological need, or many for a time. And they all will pass in time like fashion fads, that just become unfashionable eventually. And just like in the past new god/s and religions will come to take their place. This will repeat as it has in ages past untill we become a species that can supply enough of our physical and emotional needs, to not need it anymore.

Offline hidave

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2010, 02:25:49 AM »
11:11
this thread is specially dedicated to the subject of VETTING god. what you 'think' god is does not qualify.
if you have some material evidence or a logical proof, great! present it.

thank you for your cooperation.

OP, I am quite disappointed with your non sequitur quote "vetting God". You have set forth limits and demand physical evidence of the force that is beyond most will or wit.

What is God?.
A non thinking logical answer is not true and it is impossible to produce an answer  our current state due to biological limitations of perceptions using our 5 sensory.

To produce physical evidence requires manifestation of matter which is a process of brain associations with determined values pre-linked and stored in memory called conscious. So therefore your answer will be a continuum of pure speculations.

To produce a pure state answer requires a being to communicate to you anomalous cognition which is a different mode of transmission. State of super conscious is not comprehensible to 99.99 percent of the population.

What is GOD?.
It is a pure super state of being. Not human Deity such as dogmatic Jesus or Allah etc. These were enlightened beings, we all are capable of controlling the greater force such as defying gravity and giving life to the dead.

My answer is How to be God?
All is love, light and unity. :)




Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: vetting god
« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2010, 06:58:21 AM »
OP, I am quite disappointed with your non sequitur quote "vetting God". You have set forth limits and demand physical evidence of the force that is beyond most will or wit.

What is God?.
A non thinking logical answer is not true and it is impossible to produce an answer  our current state due to biological limitations of perceptions using our 5 sensory.
there is no non sequitur... a non sequitur is an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises. i have offered no argument, i have simply asked techstuf (and people like him) to provide material evidence or a logical proof of his imaginary godfairy. but since we are on the topic of logical fallacy, it's funny that first you say it is impossible to produce an answer, which by the way, you cannot possibly know... ;)
and then you follow with this!?!?
What is GOD?.
It is a pure super state of being. Not human Deity such as dogmatic Jesus or Allah etc. These were enlightened beings, we all are capable of controlling the greater force such as defying gravity and giving life to the dead.
i'm amused by your contradiction here. ;) and as far as defying gravity and giving life to the dead by "controlling the greater force"... well, i'll believe that when you demostrate it. ::)

My answer is How to be God?
All is love, light and unity. :)
logical fallacy, red herring... i didn't ask "how to be god?".
LOL, keep working at it, you'll get this logic thing some day. ;)

now, since you seemed to have missed this in the post of mine that you quoted ::) i'll say it again: this thread is specially dedicated to the subject of VETTING god for people like techstuf. so before you post again go read my opening post a little closer and a few of techstuf's posts and decide if you are like him. and again, what you 'think' god is does not qualify. if you have some material evidence or a logical proof, great! present it.
thank you for your cooperation.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2010, 07:25:10 AM by WilbyInebriated »

 

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