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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Low-Q on July 21, 2010, 12:14:47 AM

Title: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 21, 2010, 12:14:47 AM
I would like you gravity-folks to take a look at this idea on Half baked ideas:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9445.new#new

Nice drawings and explanations one can really understand.

It looks good. It should work. It should be over unity.

Vidar
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 21, 2010, 03:15:30 AM
Low-Q

This is what I wrote on the Cherryman string.


Cherryman and all

 If you like this. Here is a simple test that I have already done with similar thoughts and effects but a different design. Take a bucket with a hole funneled in the bottom with a hose that goes out the bottom and up the side to the edge of the bucket to try to flow back in. Then tie a rope to the handle of the bucket and fill with water and spin it around as hard as you can. The water will stay in the bucket but little water if any will come out of the hose. This is a test you should do before trying this design in a build. I chose to go no further on mine.

But I find allot of good thought to come up with the design.

Alan
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 21, 2010, 08:03:03 AM
Hello all,

Tnx Low-q for bringing this to attention. (In a gravity forum, only it does not use gravity ;-)


P-motion, i do not really understand what you are saying.

I think the mass of the water in the horizontal pipes is enough to raise the water.  (You have to make sure you start with water inside the pipes)  When the rotational forces push the water outside , the vacuum created will lift the water )  Just like emptying a pool of water with a hose .

Ofcourse there is a relation between the hight, size and speed.. But that is a different story. This was just a concept drawing. In real the horizontal arms could be (for example) 2 meter , as the raising only have to be a few cm .


 And AB. I answered you in the original thread

Greetings all.
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 21, 2010, 08:34:34 AM
Maybe this will make things more clear:

Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 21, 2010, 11:44:54 AM
Hello all,

Tnx Low-q for bringing this to attention. (In a gravity forum, only it does not use gravity ;-)


P-motion, i do not really understand what you are saying.

I think the mass of the water in the horizontal pipes is enough to raise the water.  (You have to make sure you start with water inside the pipes)  When the rotational forces push the water outside , the vacuum created will lift the water )  Just like emptying a pool of water with a hose .

Ofcourse there is a relation between the hight, size and speed.. But that is a different story. This was just a concept drawing. In real the horizontal arms could be (for example) 2 meter , as the raising only have to be a few cm .


 And AB. I answered you in the original thread

Greetings all.
It will raise the water. I know that water pumps that must deliver much water at high pressure use centrifugal pumps. They look more like a turbo charger that is driven by a powerful motor. Water scooters are using the same pump - and the efficiency are quite high.

A turbine that is attached inside the rotating hose where the water are picked up will help the initial water to raise and leave the hose. From there it should be an idea to let the centrifugal forces of the water suck water throug this turbine and power the rotation itself. I mean, if it takes no power to sustain rotation of the hose, this thing should definatly power itself. That is where my little sceptism bothers me.

In the case of the idea above, the water will go back to the same level - almost. It should be no problem for the hose to pick up the water. I will however assume it will take energy to accelerate the mass of water as its velocity increases radially as the water goes through the hose from the center and out. At the same time, the rotation goes angular to the direction of the water - which means that no power should be needed to pump the water. It seams too god to be true, so this must be tested in order to confirm if this is the holy grail or not. I have a good feeling, but I'll wait with yelling high opera notes untill I know the practical outcome :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 21, 2010, 02:39:06 PM
Cherryman

I don't see how you are going to get enough recycling of the water to run it. It looks like there is a breaking point you are still going to have to beat.

Alan
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 21, 2010, 06:20:42 PM
Cherryman

I don't see how you are going to get enough recycling of the water to run it. It looks like there is a breaking point you are still going to have to beat.

Alan
Isn't it just to pour more water into the tank during startup when all the hoses are saturated with water? Then it will re-establish the balance between water level in the tank and the hoses apperture?

I cannot see the problem. The water are going back to the tank anyway.

Vidar
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 21, 2010, 10:41:02 PM
Hay guys

 I am going to leave this one with you. I have to much on my plate, and when I am done I will have videos. Closed at first and open after protection.

Good luck
Alan
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 21, 2010, 11:41:29 PM
Hay guys

 I am going to leave this one with you. I have to much on my plate, and when I am done I will have videos. Closed at first and open after protection.

Good luck
Alan
So you are going to build one. Great :)
I want to make a centrifugal pump that can raise water several meters without adding more energy than it takes to sustain the rotation. How cool is that :)

Good luck with your build AB

Vidar
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 22, 2010, 03:15:53 AM
So you are going to build one. Great :)
I want to make a centrifugal pump that can raise water several meters without adding more energy than it takes to sustain the rotation. How cool is that :)

Good luck with your build AB

Vidar

LOL No Vidar

 Not one of the ones on this string but one that already does some fantastic things with no water. Like 1lb drops 1/4 and lifts 4lbs up 4/4 and this is just the beginning. 4/4 is the full distance. I think this makes it a 1 to 16 ratio in effect because 4 times the distance. Science will love this one. LOL

Alan
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 22, 2010, 10:25:20 AM
LOL No Vidar

 Not one of the ones on this string but one that already does some fantastic things with no water. Like 1lb drops 1/4 and lifts 4lbs up 4/4 and this is just the beginning. 4/4 is the full distance. I think this makes it a 1 to 16 ratio in effect because 4 times the distance. Science will love this one. LOL

Alan
Would you like to share this in detail with us? Drawings, explanations, equations, calculations etc....

Ar you using centrifugal force for this one? I believe that this force are not a part of the general laws of gravity, as it is some kind of artificial gravity itself that we can use to defeat gravity, but still not break the laws of physics :)

Vidar
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: broli on July 22, 2010, 12:03:02 PM
I believe that this force are not a part of the general laws of gravity, as it is some kind of artificial gravity itself that we can use to defeat gravity, but still not break the laws of physics :)

Vidar

In my opinion not. If you want centrifugal force to do work your rotating mass has to increase its radius, but doing that will decrease its rotational speed if you accept conservation of angular momentum to be correct. Decreasing its speed gives a drop in kinetic energy which can be used to lift a mass. But if you do the math you'll see that the lost energy due to angular momentum conservation is compensated by the work the centrifugal work done.

I still want to do a final test concerning this to see that whether angular momentum conservation truly holds or not.
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 22, 2010, 07:26:29 PM
I will do my tests too. I will use a small T-split and put a stiff plastic hose in all three holes. One vertical into the water, and one on each side horizontally. I use a dremel to speed it up till water squirts out of the two horizontal hoses. If the rpm decrease when water finally sucks up, the whole idea are trash.                Vidar
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 22, 2010, 07:47:37 PM
I will do my tests too. I will use a small T-split and put a stiff plastic hose in all three holes. One vertical into the water, and one on each side horizontally. I use a dremel to speed it up till water squirts out of the two horizontal hoses. If the rpm decrease when water finally sucks up, the whole idea are trash.                Vidar

I just was in the bathtub and rotated a single hose ..  Not the most accurate test, and indeed a mess ;-)

But, Instead of flowing back downwards, the water did propel itself outside the rotating end!
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: midknightoysters on July 23, 2010, 01:48:55 AM
 ;)HI IM IN AUSTRALIA AND IF YOU PULL THE PLUG
OUT OF THE BATH THE WATER WILL ROTATE ANTI CLOCKWISE
JUST A THOUGHT
THANKS
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 23, 2010, 03:48:57 AM
To clarify any misunderstanding in my test. It is a test to see if CF can cause enough water pressure to force water down and up a hose to pore back into the bucket. You swing the bucket around as you would swing a ball on a string. The water will stay in the bucket, but the test is to see if you can get it to force the water against CF.

All I will say is good luck. When I did the test, I did force up some water but I had to work at it and I don't believe you will get enough action for the design. But to be fair I will look at it some more and look for the flaws to see if a correction can be made.

Alan

Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: mscoffman on July 23, 2010, 11:19:40 PM
To clarify any misunderstanding in my test. It is a test to see if CF can cause enough water pressure to force water down and up a hose to pore back into the bucket. You swing the bucket around as you would swing a ball on a string. The water will stay in the bucket, but the test is to see if you can get it to force the water against CF.

All I will say is good luck. When I did the test, I did force up some water but I had to work at it and I don't believe you will get enough action for the design. But to be fair I will look at it some more and look for the flaws to see if a correction can be made.

Alan




No, Alan you have this correct. A very similar thing happens in
Unipolar Dynamos. The water pressure in the bucket and the water
pressure in the pipe both end up being the same psia pressure
per square inch at depth. Without any pressure difference
the volume of flow pipe vs bucket makes no difference. So
except for a little intertial spill-over no water transfers.

In the Unipolar Dynamo this happens with electrons rather than water.
(given a motion vector by a magnetic field.)  If the electrical current
is pulled from the rim of the dynamo - everything is cool. but if one
tries to run a wire from the rim back to axle...bsst' no current
can flow because the voltage on the disk and in the wire are
the same oposite voltage potential- Potential current difference
then makes no difference and no current can/will flow in the wire.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 26, 2010, 12:25:42 AM
  @All,
 I do believe this web site would be considered a publication since it is a public forum.
 And if you read the last sentence, may or may not be protected in foreign countries.
 Unless the price has changed, Provisional Patents are $110.
Since I am going the way of for profit private builder, doubt there would be any need for me to post in here any more.
 And if neither of my idea's prove to be functional, that's okay. It would be because of them that I could understand Bessler's wheel. I have all the weights and have started on it, but will stop.
 
http://www.uspto.gov/patents/resources/types/provapp.jsp

   Provisional Application for Patent Filing Date Requirements

  The provisional application must be made in the name(s) of all of the inventor(s). It can be filed up to 12 months following the date of first sale, offer for sale, public use, or publication of the invention. (These pre-filing disclosures, although protected in the United States, may preclude patenting in foreign countries

Hi,

Not sure what u are saying..  You are gonna patent this idear? 

C'man
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 26, 2010, 08:33:19 AM
  C-Man,
 Not sure who you are talking to, but you should tell them to get their facts straight before accusing someone.
 For all I know, you added a way to generate electricity off of my idea. Do have an earlier date documented.

Hi P-Motion,

About straight facts, I'm not accusing, it was a question as i do not quite understand your post.

As for myself, I'm not claiming anything, i just added my idea to the open source community.

C'man
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 29, 2010, 12:50:08 AM
Jim

He is dealing with CF effect and it is a simple CF test for water flow in Cf conditions. Why was it so hard for you to connect the dots on such a simple test?

Alan
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: broli on July 29, 2010, 02:19:11 AM
I'm sure you guys want to skin each other alive.

I'll repeat, this idea is not new. It has been actually performed and it works. That it is overunity is entirely different. But centrifugal force can make the water rise, same reason why a centrifugal governor rises. The difference of course is the continuous feed of water mass.

Here's some more info on related tech:
http://www.free-energy.ws/messias-machine.html

Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 29, 2010, 11:37:33 AM
Indeed, back on the subject!  ;D
 
I was thinking of creating extra mass by enlarging only the horizontal water mass, inflow and outflow smaller.

Think of it as a bottle in between.   This extra mass want to escape the rotating force.. Only way out > trough the turbines.

Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 29, 2010, 11:43:05 AM
One good thing is that eventually load is not "taken" from the driving engine.

Ass the mass of the rotating wheel, including (flowing) water inside the pipes and bottles is always the same.  So, once revd up, the wheel is only to be kept moving by a little force.

I thinking of using reversed water-pumps as generators.
Title: Re: Centrifugal gravity water wheel.
Post by: Cherryman on July 29, 2010, 11:45:36 AM
@ Broli.

Indeed it looks very similar to the messias machine!
 
The difference is in My harnessing of the water flow, which is, in my believe, more direct and more powerful.