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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: oswaldonfire on July 20, 2010, 05:30:31 PM
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The largest - surface area. How do we fix that? What substance contains more surface area than anything else? What can you do to a conventional electrode to increase the surface area - say from a few square inches - to several thousand yards - in less than a few cubic inches of space? The answer to this question will eventually lead you to extremely efficient electrolysis... and yes, overunity. Think outside the box - way outside. It is incredibly simple, yet I only know a few people who have done it.
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steel wool lol
or stainless steel racing tank
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Steel wool would have a lot of area, but not enough. It's not what we're after.
And a racing tank will not have thousands of yards of surface area.
HINT - think microscopic.
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maybe a lot of tiny steel balls in the container.
there is a structure in a car excaust catalyst which hast such dimensions, but its not made of any useable material for our needs, as fas as i know until now...
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You're getting a little closer, but still not there.
You're both thinking MACROSCOPIC - we want MICROSCOPIC.
Can you think of a system in which the electrodes are so small, it will be nearly impossible to get power to them? I can.
Which has more surface area: a bucket of peas, a bucket of rice, or a bucket of granulated sugar? As the particle sizes decrease, surface area increases - an inverse relationship. What states that we must stop at the size of granulated sugar? Think smaller!
Another problem with conventional electrolysis - gasses building up on the plates. If we solve the above problem, we also solve this problem. There will not be large enough "flat" spots for bubbles to collect on.
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That is how the diet coke and mentos trick works. The mentos surface is actually very rough and is filled with little pits and valleys. This gives it a very large surface area which allows for more of the carbon dioxide to form on its surface. The same thing happens your straw when you put it in a cup of soda, only on a much lower scale.
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That is correct vrstud. But we're looking at using extreme surface area to get rid of the gasses - not collect them.
How is this possible? Find the answer to my quote below:
You're both thinking MACROSCOPIC - we want MICROSCOPIC.
Can you think of a system in which the electrodes are so small, it will be nearly impossible to get power to them? I can.
Which has more surface area: a bucket of peas, a bucket of rice, or a bucket of granulated sugar? As the particle sizes decrease, surface area increases - an inverse relationship. What states that we must stop at the size of granulated sugar? Think smaller!
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maybe a metallic powder wich is mixed with water.
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Yes, you're getting there! This gives us a HUGE surface area, and there are very small particles dispersed within the water - the gasses are given off straight into solution.
Take a small block of, say, aluminum, with 6 square inches of surface area. Now grind it down into a VERY fine powder, and it has thousands and thousands of inches of surface area.
Now the question is, how do we provide electricity to these particles (our electrodes)?
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hold a blank end of copper cable into the mixture and see how the water becomes "dirty" :-)))
Well, the only way can be a electric or magnetic field, the positv side could be the container itself.
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You seem to be right on the money, atlantex. You are correct that the only way to provide power is by a magnetic field. For now, let's forget about the container. Because if you use the container for an electrode, then we are still limited by that lack of surface area.
Now comes the hard part, with lots of tiny details on the edge of known science. Have you heard of a process called magnetic induction? We must induce a current into the particles using a changing magnetic field.
Another problem - what would you do about oxidation problems? The increased surface area also opens up more opportunities for chemical reactions - oxidation. So far as I know, there is only one solution. (Besides using a metal that is not easily oxidized.. and also very expensive!)
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You seem to be right on the money, atlantex. You are correct that the only way to provide power is by a magnetic field. For now, let's forget about the container. Because if you use the container for an electrode, then we are still limited by that lack of surface area.
Now comes the hard part, with lots of tiny details on the edge of known science. Have you heard of a process called magnetic induction? We must induce a current into the particles using a changing magnetic field.
Another problem - what would you do about oxidation problems? The increased surface area also opens up more opportunities for chemical reactions - oxidation. So far as I know, there is only one solution. (Besides using a metal that is not easily oxidized.. and also very expensive!)
You make a capicitrode tank using foil on OUTSIDE each end of tank. Then you pump a high frequency into the capacitor plates end infinite VSWR which creates scaler waves. This will act on every molecule of water without electrode metal contact. Now beat that for surface area! A bit like a microwave oven.:)
The HHO production is created from the Radiant energy tensor and very little power required.
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As all of you probably know, if you drop Sodium into water you get the following reaction:
2Na + 2H2O --> 2NaOH + H2
Sodium is a metal.. it conducts electricity. It is NONferrous... yet it can be influenced by a changing magnetic flux... it can be affected by electromagnetic induction.
This is the final piece of the puzzle. Can any of you figure out the rest?
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my electric toohtbrush is using induction to load the battery, that came to my mind like a flash to induct the "electrods" with power. As far as I know, there are little coils in the game...
Well the oxyd problem, glycol (in car antifreez) would reduce it a bit.
In pipeline and bridge engineering, they are using a special anode (think it was graphit) to prevend rust on metals. Maybe it goes in this direction.
Also, there are system for water pipes for homes, which "should" take effect to the water hardness...
For a first shoot, I would try destilled water, maybe in combination with an electrolyte (will affect to the alu). We should also try to prevent to have oxigen in the system.
To be honest, I'm not good in chemical questions, hopefully here can help another user in the board.
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You are right about the coils. I will tell you that using a coil is the way to go. A SINGLE coil will provide for the entire process.
The aluminum was just an example. In my previous post, I mentioned SODIUM. I suggest that you start looking in that area, that is the metal that I would suggest using. Do sodium ions in solution oxidize like normal sodium? NO. That is the solution (no pun intended) to the oxidation problem.
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i still say a stainless steel racing tank sanded with roght grit paper would give good surface area and well maybe a vibrating motor to help displace the bubbles off the plates
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That will give a decent surface area, you are right, but nowhere near what my method gets. Plus, it would be more expensive in the end (and with far less production).
A vibrating motor uses a lot of energy, and even that will only partially help displace bubbles. My method requires no additional energy to displace the bubbles, leading to far less current draw, less power consumed, and extreme efficiencies.
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yes but the amount you need to produce depends on the amout you need eg the size of the engine
if you are happy to stick to speed limits then a small engine car with hho would be best option if you wont a v8 v10 or v 12 monster then maybe this is not the best way to go
i did this on a 125cc bike once
i just used stainless steel elctrodes about 2 mm apart from each 12 in total
and use an electolite to get about the right production needed
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I don't know how much production you get with your tank setup... but mine has more than enough production to run a small 5hp engine... in a space of less than 20 cubic inches and an energy input of only a few watts.
How much energy did it require for you to run that small engine? I would imagine a lot of amps.. and a LOT of watts..
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Oswaldonfire,
As you touched on in an earlier post, Sodium Metal and H2O immediately explodes. How do you over-come that?
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While an explosion is what will happen if you place a large enough chunk into H2O, that is not the case with this setup.
The reaction between the Na and the H20 creates NaOH, H2, and A LOT of heat. This heat, if there is enough Na reacting at the same time, will ignite the hydrogen gas, resulting in an explosion. However, let's consider a single atom of Na reacting. No explosion - there isn't enough heat to ignite the hydrogen and the surrounding SOLUTION absorbs the heat.
The chemical reactions are a little more complex than just this simple reaction. Think redox - that's what is happening. And keep in mind the word SOLUTION. That will give you everything you need to know.
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the hole unit was made to pull no more then 1 or 2 amps my goal was to not have more draw then the bikes electrical system could handl
how much browns gas did i produce i dont know
i dident know of a way to measure and still dont
the speed of the engine was controled by a control the amperage enterying the unit more gas higher reves etc
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i really dont know why your been cryptic
makes me belive you havent got the full grasp pf what your trying to do and are fishing for the missing ideas in your unit
my system works and ok it is small but can be easy made when you get into chemical reactions thats a hole new ball game and lots of many licences for chemicals etc
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A quick and easy way to measure production:
Get a stopwatch, get a 1 liter soda bottle. (any size will work, but we want to keep the volume relatively small for safety reasons)
Put the output of your cell into the bottle and time how long it takes to fill. From this you can use dimensional analysis to derive the LPM of your cell.
Dasimpson, I have a full grasp of everything that is happening in my cell - and more. I came to this forum because I want to share information with you and other people so that you, too, can reap the benefits of this type of cell. I could keep all of this to myself, but nothing would be gained, nobody else could follow, and it would all be for nothing. This is unlike any other cell you've ever seen or heard of in this forum, although the concepts and idea has been around for years.
I won't spoon-feed everyone every detail as to how exactly it works. My goal is to get people to think and come up with better solutions to common problems. I will give hints and show you the right direction, but I will not come straight out and say it. If you have a question - ask! Ask and ye shall receive.
I do not intend to come across as "cryptic", but rather I am trying to share knowledge while helping people to learn a thing or two.
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i have seen from what i have figured in viedos of things like this over 3 years ago i know that a 5hp engine tend to be in the 350cc range correct me if im wrong but that was my old 5hp genny was
to mathermatics i dont have a clue but if you ment a bottle full of water and see the dissplacment of the water then it would empy a liter bottle in 5 mins but that isent really telling me how much a min because of pressure needed to force the water out were as the engine wouldent need pressure but good flow
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Do you mean that you saw something like I am describing over 3 years ago? To my knowledge, the only thing on the internet even closely resembling what I am talking about is John Kanzius' well-known work.
I can help you with the math.
When you fill the bottle, you hold the mouth very close to the surface of the water, so that the pressure of the water is very small. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is exactly 1 atmosphere (atm), or approximately 14.6959 psi. The output hose of your electrolyzer is always facing this atmospheric pressure. Depending on how far underwater we go, we add the pressure of the water column to the atmospheric pressure to get the total pressure.
So, let's say that you hold the hose 1 cm under the water. The output of the hose is now facing approximately 14.7105 psi - virtually no change from the 14.6959 psi in the air.
Let's even hold it 10 cm under the water. The total pressure is now 14.8417 psi - still very little change.
(All these numbers assume that you're at sea level, but the changes will stay the same no matter the altitude)
This change in pressure is so small that for our purposes, we can ignore it. However, if you wanted to account for this small pressure difference, you could use the formula PV=nRT. If you would like me to explain this, let me know. For now, I'll leave it out.
So now that we understand the pressures involved, let's take your figure of filling a 1 liter bottle in 5 minutes.
Using dimensional analysis, we can convert this into Liters/min.
If you can fill a 1 liter bottle in 5 minutes, how many liters can you fill in 1 minute?
The answer is 1/5, or .2 liters per minute.
So the production of your cell is approximately .2 LPM.
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well that went way over my head lol
i would make a video of the bike running but 6 month after this experement the bike seized old engine iron blocks etc i was looking at a newer engine but well have to get the money for testing
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Basically what you should get out of that is that the pressure of forcing the water out of the bottle is negligible for our purposes. I just showed why it is negligible.
I'd save your money for other designs for now, if I were you. A standard plate electrolyzer like you built is good to start with, however there are much much better designs out there.
I built a standard 4-plate electrolyzer in a 1-inch pipe when I was 12 and was just getting into this stuff. I have since moved on to better things, and personally don't bother with conventional electrolysis any more. It's a waste of time, in my opinion.
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i mess with it cos parts are easy to get if i got the right engine that wont react to water then i would turn it into a genny to power the house more ideal another bike just mot's are a pain whent hey see it they dont like seeing o emissions lol so i stick carb back on etc just for the mot's
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My method is much cheaper than conventional electrolysis, and the parts are even easier to get. And yet it outperforms it every day.
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i dont class chemicals as easier
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There is only one chemical involved - and it is extremely easy to get and very cheap. It's the answer to the sodium question I posed above.. and you probably already have a ton of it to use for your electrolyte in your cell. Do you know which chemical I'm talking about?
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yes salt
salt is my elctrolite
tap water on it own would not produce that amount of gas need but a teaspoon of salt adderd to the unit put ampage uop but also gas production
it then becomes browns gas nut just hho
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Well, I assumed that you did not use salt, which is NaCl. I don't recommend anyone using salt as their electrolyte, as POISONOUS and DEADLY chlorine gas is evolved. This is the stuff they used in World War I. It will destroy your lungs from the inside out and kill you.
There is one other popular electrolyte.
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baking soda
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Try again - and brown's gas and hho are the same thing. The salt will not do anything special to the gas, besides make it deadly.
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i thoght that was why it got it's name browns gas and the the electrlite they are my only 2 ideas
anyway 00:45am here work at 06:30 and maybe an hour or so life left in batterys befor they knock off
so ill catch you tomorrow see if i worked out what other thing i could have in the house would be sodium
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im intrigued oswald
interesting way of presenting your piece
when i was still putting time and effort into hho,
these were my results and conclusions-
very thin guage wire was the only practical largest
surface area
i used it and got dismal output
its very tricky to work with and a constant worry
that a point in the wire might burn out or get loose
and touch its opposite
i found the optimum way of clearing hydrogen and
oxygen from clinging to the cell surface was vacuum electrolysis
this is connecting to inlet manifold directly
i used a large airstone as a flashback resistor
i got no flashbacks
use an airstone and you can throw the bubbler into the
garbage can where it belongs
but sodium and magnetic energy ive never come across before
microscopically, one sodium atom (if its a fairly round shape)
must be largest surface area possible
and magnetic energy is a form of electricity-right?
cant wait for the next installment
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I already explained no need to use ANYTHING other than pure water and no contact electrodes. Electrodes stay on the outside to make a capacitor then "contact" with every molecule of water is 100%.
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What substance contains more surface area than anything else?
Tetrahedron nano stuructures,
like cutting edge batteries.
And I say tetrahedron, only because
the process is not refined enough yet,
to call them nano-spheres as due course...
But it isn't the boat (Surface area),
it is the motion of the ocean (Stimuli).
Electrolysis will evolve when we know
what stimuli's in harmony water needs...
But I respect your current approach,
for current "Bute-Force" methods. :)
Atlantex suggested metalic powder,
sounds silly at first, right?
Consider the neutral-plate designs.
OK, they aren't really neutral,
just potential (Voltage) subdivisions.
Metallic powder,
suspended in water,
resonated into tripes
(Solid particles suspended into boundary layers by resonance in fluids)
would create "Virtual Plates".
The right sound + the right modulated voltage waveform
might negate the need for the neutral plates.
Something to ponder...
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Jikwan - you are correct. That's the answer you are looking for.
Compututor - you said:
Atlantex suggested metalic powder,
sounds silly at first, right?
He is on the right track. What kind of surface area does a powder have? What makes the powder have such a huge surface area??? And knowing that, how can we increase it even further?
You also said:
(Solid particles suspended into boundary layers by resonance in fluids)
would create "Virtual Plates".
Replace the word "virtual" with "liquid". And trying to arrange the particles into "plates" would be too much work.. and is not necessary. Why not just let the "particles" be evenly disbursed within the solution?
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This will also work with other metals - Potassium, for example. Is anyone starting to see the connections yet?
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lithium ????..........temperature disasscociation....at a molecular level???...just thinking out loud
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For now, let's focus on the metal SODIUM. It will also work with potassium and maybe even other metals, such as lithium.. but let's keep it simple for now. Sodium is the metal of choice. We have already established that we want to create a "liquid" electrode. We have also established that a single sodium atom will provide the greatest surface area possible.
So.. what's the most logical step to take next? Fill a container with a zillion sodium atoms. Bingo. Problem solved.
BUT - a single sodium atom is so reactive that it will immediately combine with the water in an endothermic reaction to produce Na+ and OH- ions. Na is a metal. Metals are affected by magnetic induction. Sodium is affected by magnetic induction....
However, let's consider a single atom of Na reacting. No explosion - there isn't enough heat to ignite the hydrogen and the surrounding SOLUTION absorbs the heat.
What word is spelled right out in bold letters? It's the key. It's made from a common electrolyte.
Are ions affected by magnetic induction? You tell me.
I've practically given it away now... it's really very simple.
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what? dump a kilo of sodium bicarbonate into a litre of water
and position magnets around in certain places.....and it
would give off hydrogen?
might have to be pretty strong magnets...electromagnets
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Not exactly - but you're getting there.
I already said that sodium bicarbonate is not the salt we're looking for, and neither is Sodium Chloride (table salt). There is one more popular salt that contains sodium that can be used as an electrolyte.
You are right in suggesting that we would need a whole lot of whatever salt we're using. The increased surface area of a single sodium atom/ion will only be useful if we create a supersaturated solution of it.
Read up on magnetic induction. Wikipedia summarizes it nicely:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_induction
Once you understand the basic principles of induction, you will see why a permanent magnet will not work - or even an electromagnet for that matter. Induction will not occur if there is just a static magnetic flux.
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ill read it-but i got tell you just before i posted the last message
i could see a glass food mixer spinning the solution round with
magnets strapped to the sides
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Yes, as long as the magnets are moving... but there is an easier way.
Remember when I mentioned a coil?
You are right about the coils. I will tell you that using a coil is the way to go. A SINGLE coil will provide for the entire process.
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Sodium Nitrite, is an electrolyte, which would give us our sodium atoms, and dissolve safely with H2O.
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it must be your basic generator then
its got magnets and coil
magnets strapped to the outside of mixer
metal coil attatched to the spinning rotor should produce
electricity enough
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Not sodium nitrate... it may work but I have not tested it. The chemical I'm talking about is even more well known as an electrolyte in electrolysis cells. It is a strong base.
There are no magnets, and we're not trying to generate electricity. We're simply trying to induce current into the sodium atoms. A single coil, fed pulsed current, creates a changing magnetic flux. This will induce current into any conductor within it's vicinity.
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Sodium hydroxide, then?
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Correct.
So now that you know the chemical we need... how would you go about setting this up? Any ideas?
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So, your saying that the common electrolyte that folks use for hho production, is all you need as the sodium atoms themselves act as or replace the metal plates and give us a HUGE area increase. If it works, that's ingenious.
They have good-sized magnetic induction charging tables for charging small personal electronic items....put I don't know if they would give us the pulsed current we would need. Perhaps they could be modified.
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a pulsed coil - fine guage
probably need a few - just like the joecell
one within the other
one single coil wouldnt reach out
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YES!!!!
Thank you. That is exactly what is happening. And it does work; I personally have built one and I know of at least 5 other people who have built one.
Liquid electrodes... the new wave in electrolysis.
Are you familiar with the principles of magnetic induction?
Create a coil. Then put a wire inside the coil. Pulse current through the coil, and current will be induced in the wire. Now size the wire up. Will it still have current induced? Yes. More than before, because it is intersecting a larger cross-section of magnetic flux. Now size it down. Still has induced current. A little less than before, but it's still there. There is no limit on the size of the wire.
Now... where most people get lost. Size the wire down to one atom in length. Is current induced? YES. However small, the atom is still being affected. Now take untold trillions of trillions of trillions of sodium atoms... each receiving a small amount of power.. and it all adds up.
Can you see the electrodes? NO.
And just like that, we've solved almost every problem associated with conventional electrolysis.
Surface area? Not a problem!
Gas collecting on plates? No problem!
This is so elegantly simple.. yet SO effective.
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One coil WILL do the trick. The trick is positioning the solution in the densest part of the flux created. Any ideas on where this would be?
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i kind of get the idea but without complete understanding
got to mull it over
what kind of litre per minute is the output?
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That's because we haven't completely explained how it works yet. Now comes the fun part - chemistry!
If you had to build one of these units now - based on what you've read and understood so far - what would it look like? Describe it to me.
I have not measured the liters per minute output of this device... but I can assure you that there is no need. My first test was running a small 5hp engine... well I can tell you one thing - I wasn't ready to have TOO MUCH hydrogen!!!!!
5 or 6 of these could easily run a full-size vehicle.. like an SUV.
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i reckon its running the solution through small dia tube
in its centre is the fine guage wire
hho just bubbles up to the surface
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Where would you put your coil? There is nothing inside the container except the sodium hydroxide solution.
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right.
everything has to be very small because you insist
on getting so near to the power source
a tube
a coil inserted with spacer protecting it from the tube
a wire with spacers keeping it central
i inch high
half inch diameter
a cap on the bottom
a hole in the middle for incoming new solution
capped on the top with a pipe for outgoing gas
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Put it inside with the medium it's reacting with. They're married, why not put them in the same bed?
I love the simplicity of this. It's like music...which is so often what science is.
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You know this is like a quantum leap in hho production. So, my mind is all of sudden thinking you're troll, and I'm nuts for even playing your game. You did just fall from nowhere. The thing is, is that I know I'm nuts, but are you and your information for real?
Problem is, is that it seems so intuitional, it makes sense. Or....maybe that means there is no problem.
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It is not necessary to put the coil inside the tube, per se.. but it could be done. I prefer to keep it outside the tube, to avoid issues with the extremely caustic solution reacting with the coil, and to keep assembly simple.
My first setup was like this:
A one-inch PVC pipe, vertical, about 10 inches long.
Both ends were capped, with a hose barb on the top cap to collect the gas.
800 or so turns of 22-gauge magnet wire wrapped around the outside of the pipe.
A supersaturated solution of NaOH inside the pipe.
Pulsed current fed through the coil.
Absurd amounts of hydroxy production followed.
I boiled off all of the water in my tube in about 10 minutes... I could not get water into the darned thing fast enough.
I ran the gas output through a condenser to make sure that it wasn't steam.
I burned the output gas. Pure HHO.
Now are you starting to see the advantages over conventional electrolysis?
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osy,
Have you considered doing some videos. It would be really great for you to have a youtube thing going on, so that people can get a better idea and feel what you're doing. It will also bring a lot of feedback and joint experimentation. If this is a big as it could be, then the more involved the better.
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I understand your concern. You are correct - this is a quantum leap. But yet - it is so simple! It must have you thinking - why did nobody think of this before??? It's too good to be true! That was my first thought.
I only have 30 posts on this board, and those 30 are in this thread. I am labeled as a "newbie".. but this is just based on my number of posts.
The reason I came to this board - and the ONLY reason - was to share this information with you and whoever else is interested in changing the world. I believe that this technology can and will change the world. But we need to make it open-source. Put the knowledge out there, anybody can build one, and nobody can patent it and make billions off of it. End the greed of the oil barons forever.
Oil will become worthless - people will be fighting over putting the useless shit back into the ground... rather than fighting useless wars over who gets it.
Do you see where I'm getting at? Picture a future with FREE energy. We could do anything. We could reverse everything we've done to this poor planet.
That said... again... this is the ONLY reason I came to this board. I don't have any interest in any other part of this board or any of the other ideas. Sure, I bet some of them *might* work. But why should I waste my time on that when I've already got the answer right in my hands?
20 or 30 bucks could buy you everything you need to make your own replication. How much of this stuff do you already have? Chances are, a lot of it.
So yes, my information and myself are real. I'm not some elaborate hoax who has spent an ungodly amount of time researching to make myself sound convincing. Do you agree with my ideas? They are scientifically sound.
Even better - don't take my word for it. Build your own.. see for yourself. You may even learn a thing or two, and that is worth more than the final product.
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It is not necessary to put the coil inside the tube, per se.. but it could be done. I prefer to keep it outside the tube, to avoid issues with the extremely caustic solution reacting with the coil, and to keep assembly simple.
My first setup was like this:
A one-inch PVC pipe, vertical, about 10 inches long.
Both ends were capped, with a hose barb on the top cap to collect the gas.
800 or so turns of 22-gauge magnet wire wrapped around the outside of the pipe.
A supersaturated solution of NaOH inside the pipe.
Pulsed current fed through the coil.
Absurd amounts of hydroxy production followed.
I boiled off all of the water in my tube in about 10 minutes... I could not get water into the darned thing fast enough.
I ran the gas output through a condenser to make sure that it wasn't steam.
I burned the output gas. Pure HHO.
Now are you starting to see the advantages over conventional electrolysis?
it sounds like you need controls to limit production...who would have thought?
It looks like your unit works well. Just need a reservoir of solution to feed into the reaction chamber, and automatic controls.
For right now though, I find this too much to believe. Yes I will have to build my own.
How about your youtube thing?
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All that is needed is a reservoir of pure water - the NaOH is not used up.
I know exactly what you mean. Intellectual high/rush is more than any drug can ever give you.
I may see what I can do about posting some videos of the process.
You should have enough information to begin a replication - but if you need help I am willing.
In the meantime, I think it will be beneficial to discuss further the details of what exactly is happening in that solution - so that everyone can understand.
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this is mindblowing
thanks a lot for this oswald
this will have earth shattering effects due to simplicity
and production output
the amount of water used is a sure sign of big output
we have a pretty good explination of how to build it
i dont know if youre going to be around to answer
any questions eg
incoming water--needs to be thoroughly mixed with baking soda
b soda mixed with water as its coming into chamber? etc etc
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never mind-didnt see the previous posts
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I can answer any questions you need.
However, I will not spoon-feed the answers. Rather, see what you can come up with by yourself - or even better - amongst yourselves. That's what a forum is for...right?
I can provide guidance if anyone needs it.
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"I think it will be beneficial to discuss further the details of what exactly is happening in that solution"
Isn't the same thing happening that happens in a common "plate" cell, only at a microscopic level? The dynamics are the same only magnified a thousand+ times because of the huge molecular surface area involved compared to common cells? You've already explained it. The proof is in the pudding. In the replication.
You mentioned oil companies and such...well a youtube account with vids of your work can easily reach thousands, even millions. Please don't discount it. You can get a nice little Flip video camera for $100 that takes really nice and clear videos.
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glad to know youll still be with us a while os
someone pretty soon will build one and put it on utube
well, i sre disgraced myself there
shows how much i got in my head trying to
figure something so simple
i gotta get some sleep
had a hard day
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Correct!!!!
This is the EXACT SAME thing that happens in a conventional cell - only at a microscopic level. You are absolutely, 100% correct. And the molecular size of the electrodes fixes all the problems of normal electrolysis.
A simplified version of what happens:
For every downswing of the EMF, each sodium atom will catalyze the release of one hydrogen atom and one oxygen atom. These monatomic gasses will bubble out of solution.
Do you now see where we can get our incredible production!?
For EVERY sodium atom.. we're getting ONE hydrogen and ONE oxygen. That's a lot of gas.
Now... pulse the field... but pulse it FAST. You're getting that amount of gas EVERY PULSE.
I encourage you and anyone else reading this to build a replication for yourself. It's so simple.
I'll see what I can do about getting some videos to post online. I agree with you that youtube could be a viable way of getting this out.
I hope you are right, jikwan. If we can get this technology out to the world.. everyone could build one. Run your house, run your car... for how much money? Pocket change, compared to a solar system or a commercial hydrogen system... neither of which do much of anything anyway.
What about a small device that a homeowner could buy.. maybe for a hundred bucks or so... that would power their furnace, or car, or whatever else they want. This way everyone could have one - not just people like us who are comfortable in building their own. People want commercial quality - something in a nice case with quality construction, safety features, and a warranty.
-
To be honest, I was expecting this thread to turn to shit like so many of them do. You get your hopes up and then your brain gets keelhauled.
But, so far, it has only become more intriguing; and like I have already said it makes a great deal of sense. It's just macro to micro level.
Oswaldonfire, who the hell are you? Can you share a bit about yourself and how you came up with this?
-
I don't want to reveal my full identity on this forum, but I can tell you a little about myself.
I live in New Jersey. I have been doing experiments since I was in grade school. An autodidact, I had taught myself science up to the high school level by the time I was 10. My first experience with a soldering iron was in the 6th grade.
I do a ridiculous amount of experimenting. All my time and money is spent on projects. I began commandeering the garage at age 12, when I first began branching my work in alternative energy. That was when I really began expanding my mind. My schoolwork started to suffer greatly, but I couldn't let that bother me. What I was doing was far more valuable. I could sit through class and learn things (and fall asleep in science class), but the second I got home, I was down in the garage.. forget homework.
A lot of people get wary when I tell them my age... so I will withhold that information. They immediately dismiss someone so much younger than them as a joke.
I do not claim to be the inventor of this technology. I never have and never will. However, I do know the inventor. He and I decided that it would be best to release the information freely as I am doing so right now.
I picked up on what he was doing, recognized it for what it was, figured out much of the inner workings myself... and then presented them to him. He acknowledged what I had figured out as correct, and I have been working with him ever since.
I do manage to have time for other things too, however. I'm somewhat of an adrenaline junkie.. my idea of fun is climbing 300+ foot cliffs.
Too much else to say.. it's past midnight here and I've got work in the morning.
I say, let's get this thread hopping with replications. Let's get some brainpower flowing. Read up on some of these concepts. Try to think about how what you have read can be adapted to explain what you're reading here. Step outside the box... way outside.
I can help you along the way with some of the chemistry and other details.
It is just as important, if not more important, for everyone to understand exactly how this device works before or while they are building a replication.
-
A guy called Alaskastar also had the same idea/concept in 2008.
Read
http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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Oswaldonfire,
Been following along,
Thanks for sharing Bud!
This will be fantastic [huge understatement]!
You are one cool fellah ,don't worry about your age we have many young genius's here![residents or otherwise].
Your actually an" old dude" [to some of the crowd].
Thanks
Chet
PS
HHMMm.......
I noticed in the "Alaska" link!
Farrahday [long time member here]
I don't remember "Her" discussing this topic?
PPS
I'm in [replication]!
-
You are correct with that link. "Alaskastar" is the inventor of this technology. He tried what I am doing right now back in '08. Read that thread... it turned into pure garbage. Nothing but mudslinging. You'll also find the reason why Farrahday has since dismissed this topic as bogus. She was getting frustrated with how things were presented, and nobody could explain things exactly the way she wanted. Meanwhile, everyone else was just ripping themselves apart - so she left.
There was a time when oupower.com was an energetic forum. Alaska came and revealed this concept... and a few others. People were scrambling to do replications, everyone was fired up. And then it turned to shit when people couldn't understand. They wouldn't even go and research things for themselves - they just wanted the answers. So they begged and begged to know everything. Alaska finally told them... and the forum has since DIED. Look at the last page of that thread. Someone tried to re-start it... citing information that everyone could understand... but there is nobody left to read it.
Do you see what I mean?
Age does not mean a thing - both Alaskastar and I are living proof of that.
ramset - glad to hear it!
I would suggest that you try to describe what you are doing as much as possible - that way your success might inspire other people to begin replication as well.
One of the key things that needs to happen with this thread is the sharing of information.
If you build a replication or are going to build a replication - DOCUMENT IT! Let other people see what you are doing!
We need to get the ideas flowing, the conversation happening... collaboration.
Post your design. How are you going to build it? You can get some feedback on it before you even begin.
Any questions? I'll see what I can do.
Let's get this process figured out. How do YOU think it works??
I'm not getting anything out of this thread except the incredible feeling of helping other people to understand. I've logged over 7 hours of my time in the past 3 days on this thread.
This thread may have been started by ME... but it is about YOU.
-
And for future reference - this process is called Magnetolysis.
-
Os,
I don't know squazool about "magnetolysis".[surprise, surprise]
In concept It all makes sense
I am willing to learn,will be reading all the posted/printed Data I can get my hands on.
The crowd at this forum won't tolerate "nonsense".[bickering]
we need results, group involvement.[VERY good at that here]
I will share all I do !
Researching.......................
Chet
PS
why not invite Alaska here?[that would be nice}
-
@oswaldonfire,
Thank you for making your information public on this forum.
The question I have concerns your signal driving source. What is it’s
characteristic. The frequency and the voltage and the wave form.
Here are a bunch of questions about the signal source.
a. Loaded and Unloaded Voltage
b. Current
c. Waveform
d. Sum of Waveforms?
e. Center Frequency
f. Amplitude Modulated?
g. Frequency Modulated?
h. Phase Modulated?
i. Output Impedance?
j. Output Power (watts)
k. VSWR
Since you are actually likely to be obtaining the excess energy from D+D
CF cold fusion – the above information is likely to be most important in
any attempted replication.
Note: Depending on it’s frequency the device will likely need to be RF shielded
in a way that prevent it from interacting with it’s environment and vice versa.
---
Also a link to something similar (note the RF cautions):
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6170.0
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
An internet search of the word "magnetolysis" will not give you much of anything. In fact, the only thing that will probably show up is the thread from oupower.com, and maybe this thread.
I encourage you to read that thread. As much nonsense as there is, there is still some valuable information that can be extracted.
Read this:
http://knol.google.com/k/how-induction-lamps-work#
There is a very important paragraph in there, under the induction lamps section, that relates directly to this concept. Can you tell me what it is?
Alaska and I are working on a presentation about this technology, and when it is done, it will be released all over the internet.
Mark - I do not have test equipment suitable to answer all of your questions - but I can answer some.
The very first version of this technology used a 17.1 MHz crystal to pulse the coil. Hydrogen production was through the roof... but the setup gave a splitting headache. Sorry, I don't have any specs other than this.
The second experiment was a 555 timer PWM setup pulsing the coil. I want to say the circuit was running at around 125 kHz... I can't remember exactly. It may be cited in the oupower.com thread.
The power input was 5 watts total - 5v @ 1A. Square wave. I have not tried other waveforms (triangle, sawtooth, etc.). Try them.
It was determined that frequency was not as important as the Gauss strength.
The strength of the magnetic field is the MAIN factor - NOT frequency.
There is no tricky resonance or anything strange happening - this is simply normal electrolysis - sized down. As long as the field is pulsing and everything else is right, a reaction will occur.
-
Oswaldonfire
Quote:
There is no tricky resonance or anything strange happening - this is simply normal electrolysis - sized down. As long as the field is pulsing and everything else is right, a reaction will occur.
------------------------------------
Has any one gotten this reaction and posted a Step by step on what they did?
A vid?
Knowing how things work is always nice!
Not always possible!
My cousin Bobby has made it his lifes work studying Fire.
Yet I use it every day completely oblivious to what is actually going on[according to him].
The proof is in the pudding!!
Where to start??
Chet
-
As far as I know, there are no videos or anything of this process. Everyone (including me) who has gotten this process has kept it to themselves, until now.
Do you mean "Where to start??" on the replication, or explaining how this works?
You should have enough info to begin a replication by now... if not, say something.
As for explaining how it works:
-Are you familiar with the principles of magnetic induction?
-Are you familiar with how transformers work?
-Are you familiar with what happens at each electrode in conventional electrolysis? (the chemical reactions)
-Are you familiar with redox reactions?
If the answer is NO to any of these, then you know what to research. Once you have a complete understanding of all of those items, the realization of exactly what is going on should set in. You simply have to look at it a different way.
-
I noticed in the light article that a ferrite material around the glass is used to wrap the copper coils around "which causes a very strong magnetic force". It looked from the other thread like folks were just wrapping wire around the glass or perhaps an insulating material to keep heat away from the glass. Which may make for a lesser force.
The same light bulb article mentions how an induction lamp works as a 'transformer", with the coils being the primary and enclosed mercury metal acting like the secondary. Only in our case the sodium metal is acting as a secondary which explains how the transfer of electric energy happens. An energy which must excite the h20 molecules enough to make them separate into there basic O and H.
-
James, first off let me congratulate you. That is EXACTLY what is happening in our setup, as far as the transfer of energy goes.
Now the only thing left to figure out is the chemical process of splitting the water. For example - why are we using sodium? Why not aluminum or another metal?
But most importantly - HOW THE HELL DOES THE SODIUM SPLIT THE WATER SO EFFICIENTLY?!
The answer is a series of three (3) redox reactions, all of them catalyzed by the magnetic field causing the movement of electrons.
This is the last big hurdle to understand.
I suggest you look at what happens at each electrode in conventional electrolysis, since this is just basically normal electrolysis scaled down and with a different metal. You can then apply that to what we have here.
Specifically - what goes on as far as the transfer of electrons at each electrode?
Keep in mind that we don't have 2 dedicated + and - electrodes. Any sodium atom could act as either one at any given time, depending on which part of the cycle it is in.
-
Want to thank you Osy for making us think.
I felt from the beginning this was the same dynamics that happen on a macro level, scaled down to a micro atomic level. That said, I now realize I don't know what's happening at a macro level. So I'm having to read a lot in hopes of getting a basic grasp. Thank gawd, learning is fun and stimulates the brains production of opiate like substances.
-
Now that's what we need to see! Thank you for taking the initiative to try to understand this further.
As I said before, look into the details of electron transfer at the electrodes, substitiute Sodium into the reactions, and then balance the redox equations.
That's how I figured it out. It may also be helpful to have information about sodium's atomic structure (valence levels, etc) and a standard electrode potentials chart in front of you.
-
@ oswaldonfire
Thanks for the posts on this electrolysis process it's very interesting and unconventional...
I've read through Alaskastar's posts at the oupower forum but cannot get to his project folder in both IE or Firefox to see the circuit(s)...
Could you please post your circuit for everyone to replicate with component values.
Kind Regards,
Paul
-
Goat,
Quote:
Could you please post your circuit for everyone to replicate with component values.
---------------------------------
now that would be nice!!
get off to a good start ,everyone on the same page!
Chet
-
@oswaldonfire
wow is all i can say right now i think, ive been on the edge of my seat for the last 24 hours. thanks hehe. :D
even if this doesnt work for what ever reason its an interesting exercise. ;D
Peace.
-
I have since taken apart my old circuit for other projects, and I never wrote down exactly how it was configured. However - I will see what I can dig up.
I have ordered a small magnetic induction lamp - it arrives on the 28th. The plan is to take apart the light to get the ballast and the induction coils to drive my setup - you already read how similar these processes are. Instead of designing something, why not just get something that already has been professionally designed to do exactly what you want it to do?
That's my thinking behind it, and I will post how well it works or does not work.
Everyone here could buy a lamp and create their own - it's not hard. We'll see.
How's it coming with the chemistry?
-
have a feeling i'm being dared... again.
been happening more often lately, it seems.
i'm getting involved with an induction lighting project. last monday i received delivery of
1 Amko Solara model WJY85DG01 and 1 Brightmax model ZN-PL80W/a.
friday i picked up a complete fixture - bulb / socket (with induction coil) / housing and ballast.
i've always had the wire and pvc/cpvc on hand.
weird.
not going to be much help on the electro-chemistry side. didn't do so well in chemistry.
not sure how to get my hands on sodium hydroxide. is there a name brand i can look for?
while i'm at it with the questions:
did the solution get warm?
how long does the sodium hydroxide last?
thanks... i think.
nap
-
Slapper, if you use one of your nice induction lamps for this project, it can never be used as a lamp again.
When I get my lamp, I am going to have to smash the glass to free the induction coil.
(make sure you wear gloves, work in a well-ventilated place, and put the mercury amalgam pellet and all the glass shards into a sealed container and bring it to a center that accepts hazardous waste)
The idea is to simply take the coil from the lamp and slide it down around a container, with the solution inside. No extra wire will be necessary.
You can get sodium hydroxide all over. It is the main ingredient in some drain cleaners - Red Devil lye is the most popular one. I scored 10 pounds of sodium hydroxide from ebay for only 34 bucks with free shipping. It's 99.9999% pure technical grade, and it should last me for quite a long time... several years at the very least. The seller was "Essential Depot".
The solution did get slightly warm... but it's the coil that produces most of the heat. In high-power experiments, I had to submerge the coil in ice-water, or else it would have started to boil the solution and melt the plastic. However, this could be alleviated by using thicker wire. I used 28 gauge magnet wire.
The NaOH will last practically the whole life of the cell. The NaOH is not used up - only the water is. The only thing you need to do is add pure water as the level drops.
This is as good a time as any to warn you about the dangers of working with concentrated NaOH. We are dealing with concentrations high enough that one micro-pindrop will burn through your skin. If it gets in your eyes - prepare to be blind for life. It will turn your eyes into jelly. If you breathe in the fumes - prepare for severe Pulmonary edema and drowning in your own blood.
Read up on how to handle it safely. Read the MSDS sheets on sodium hydroxide.
Keep a bottle of strong vinegar close by the help neutralize spills if they occur.
Wear proper safety gear and work carefully, and you're fine.
Hope I didn't scare anyone off, but you need to know if there are potential dangers involved.
-
my induction coil is the outie kind.
i'm thinking i'd like to avoid drowning in my own blood and having my eyes turn into jelly.
thought this stuff was supposed to be safe.
is it less scary to use the off shelf drain cleaners or lye?
don't have a fan vented hood available to me in any practical way at this time.
take care.
nap
-
Are you able to remove it from the lamp without breaking anything?
Sorry if my last post was a little.. extreme. But I want everyone to know what could happen if they don't use their brains. To avoid what I just warned you about - wear goggles. When I work with the stuff, I wear goggles and then a face shield over that. I also wear gloves, a long-sleeve shirt, long pants, and closed-toe shoes that will shed liquids.
Anything can be dangerous if used improperly.
I don't have access to a fume hood or anything like that either - my solution is to simply mix the stuff outside, where there is plenty of ventilation. I once caught a small whiff of the fumes.. that was not fun. Mixing it is the most dangerous part, because when it dissolves, it produces heat. This creates steam - but steam laced with NaOH. The heat creates a lot of vapors.
I believe that as long as you don't mix this stuff up in a closet with your head directly over it, breathing deeply, with no safety gear, standing in flip-flops, you're fine. Just use your head.
Another thing - this may work with other chemicals - I just haven't tested any of them. It may very well work with chemicals (sodium or potassium salts) that aren't strong bases and are simply neutral salts - which would be nice because it would eliminate almost all of the possible danger. Try them out if you want.
-
exciting times!
im very pissed off at a time that a fairly simple and
effective method can be put into practice
been backpacking india/thailand for 3 years now
i have an adjustable spanner and screwdrivers
no chance for me
alaskastar is one hell of a mechanic. if you could
get his help on this it would accelerate things in
every way
his experience with mixing hho+ diesel engines
could save people from wrecking their cylinders/heads
oswald, you mentioned running a 5hp motor
was this 100% hho?
i hope you or someone else points out that the more
hho is used, a corresponding adjustment to the
timing is required. is critical. must be retarded
quite a lot or else pay for new pistons/head
i dont think i could contribute much else
wishing you guys full power on this
death to big oil and the new world order!
-
Are you able to remove it from the lamp without breaking anything?
-
Qswald
Eye jelly!
lung drowning!
one drop pain thingy!
I was wondering why all the guys in the last thread were "Dragging there ass's".
Has to be the reason!
One of my business's is electroplating!
All the above plus a few more treats [cyanide]
Fellas this can be done very safely "VERY"
just set up a place dedicated to experimenting.
AND NEVER EVER DEVIATE FROM YOUR SAFETY PROTOCOL
the solution is only one thing !
the gas is another![much more to worry about]
Oswaldonfire
Quote:
have since taken apart my old circuit for other projects, and I never wrote down exactly how it was configured.
------------------
5 watts
1 gallon water
5 minutes water all gone
Thats enough gas to fill a small house[5 watts 5 min]
Sounds like the best thing since canned beer!
No much better than that!
The best thing since the Breast!!
Amazing!!
Your working on something better than that?
Still researching.
Chet
PS
Os/slapper
How bout a part # on the light
-
PS
Os/slapper
How bout a part # on the light
the part number off the bulb probably isn't going to help much. haven't got into the specifics on the bulb
itself except for the way it works. the group i am to do the work for is custom making their own bulbs.
but i won't be officially starting this project for another week or two for the clients. way too behind on other
contracts (my night gig - on my 'free' time).
here is a little quote from one of osy's links from Tesla in 1929:
"Surely, my system is more important than the incandescent lamp, which is but one of the known electric illuminating
devices and admittedly not the best. Although greatly improved through chemical and metallurgical advances and skill
of artisans it is still inefficient, and the glaring filament emits hurtful rays responsible for millions of bald heads and
spoiled eyes. In my opinion, it will soon be superseded by the electrodeless vacuum tube which I brought out
thirty-eight years ago, a lamp much more economical and yielding a light of indescribable beauty and softness."
ya gota luv it.
take care.
nap
-
Yes, the small engine was run on 100% HHO.
And yes, I had to adjust the timing of the engine.
ramset - you are correct. This can be done very safely as long as you just use your head. It is not as dangerous as I made it seem by listing all the terrible things that could happen to you. Just don't drink it, don't breathe it, and wear safety gear.
Yes, I am working on an even better method. The production is mainly determined by the FLUX STRENGTH. An induction coil is professionally designed to have an extreme flux strength in order to excite the mercury. So it already does exactly what I want, only better.
Also, I was only using 5 watts before. I ordered a 15 watt induction lamp.
The lamp I bought is here - the 15 watt model:
http://www.inductionlamps.com/screwInSpecs.shtml
-
here's the ballast i got:
http://www.brightmax.net/lamp/electronic.html (http://www.brightmax.net/lamp/electronic.html)
it's the 80w.
still trying to get more info on the bulb and socket.
i can see why you were asking. your ballast is built in. if you haven't already done it i'd check in on the frequency.
they still have some of those 2mhz ones out there in these styles.
take care.
nap
-
Fellas,
thanks for the info!
Os
Very smart going with an existing product that hopefully does the job!
The K.I.S.S. comes to mind!
Didn't get much sleep because of this thread [exciting stuff]!
studying................
Chet
-
@ oswaldonfire
A question:
Coils were mentioned - made of .... "800 or so turns of 22-gauge magnet wire wrapped around the outside of the pipe."
Q. - Were the turns continuous up the pipe or layered, a set of turns over the others ?
-
The turns were layered. The THICKER the coil, the STRONGER the flux inside.
-
I followed this thread from the begininng and want to thank oswaldonfire for his unselfishness and real desire to help those who ask for it. I did build an HHO system using ss plates and produced quite a bit of hydrogen that the head blew and the cylinders warped. Cost me $1200 for an engine overhaul. Needless to say without knowing how to control the amount of HHO generation I stopped working on the project for the past 2 years. Now I am excited again and want to start all over using the same principle but on a microscopic scale as described in these posts. Again thanks for bringing hope and excitment back into my life.
-
I am very glad to have sparked your mind once again, sergenet. Welcome to the thread!
I am very excited to announce the following:
I have just done some simple calculations, and have found the amount of available surface area in this setup.
A supersaturated solution of NaOH gives us approximately 2.9 x 10^25 Sodium ions per liter of solution.
The surface area of a single sodium atom is approximately 4.54 x 10^-19 square meters.
The surface area of a single Sodium ion is approximately 1.18 x 10^-19 square meters.
So in one liter of a saturated solution, we have:
(1.18 x 10^-19)(2.9 x 10^25 ) = 3.42887 x 10^6 square meters.
Yes, you read that right… 3.43 MILLION SQAURE METERS!!!!
And that's in one 10cm cubed space.
-
SO....... it may only take a cell the size of a test tube to run a car?..and even that might be over kill?.. :o
-
Theoretically, yes.
However, there are practical limitations. For example, a cell the size of a test tube putting out that much gas would literally explode all over - there would be too much gas in too small a space being produced too fast.
There are a few others, but I can't think of them right now. My brain is running a million miles an hour!
Got some stuff I'm working on and gotta finish within the next 40 minutes, so I'll be back on later tonight.
-
how long before the reaction cools?
closest i could come up with at this time is drano. got about 5 ounces stirred into a 16 ounces of distilled.
it's been about 1hr and it is still quite hot and dark.
here is some more pics.
take care.
nap
-
It can take a while to cool down - I leave my solution overnight for at least 12 hours to cool down and settle. Any extra crystals will settle on the bottom - use everything but these.
Looks like a good first setup, and I am very pleased to see that you've already started it.
Only thing I'd like to say is - make sure that seal at the base of the jar is good. You don't want any of this stuff leaking out.
I'd keep a bottle of vinegar around, just in case.
-
okay - i'll hold off till tomorrow :(
had to heat the pvc up and form it around the oblong induction coil.
the pvc tube fit tight in the hole i cut in the bottom of the plastic peanut jar.
everything is a snug fit.
put a bead of some cheap 5 minute epoxy around the penetration both inside and out. pretty rigid.
do you think i should put a thin bead of silicon over the epoxy?
thanks.
nap
-
You don't absolutely have to wait until tomorrow if you're fired up and ready to go. The solution will get warm anyway during use.
It shouldn't hurt to try putting a little silicone on, but if you're comfortable that it looks watertight, then you don't have to.
-
Slapper,
You slapped that together nicely!
Os has laid out a real simple concept here!
A gazillion meters or working surface,SWEET!
What you gonna drive it with??
On second thought I see its all there, In the bulb set up.
Hope it works!!
Chet
-
didn't get a hint that it does anything. no bubbles. 8oz of draino in 16 oz of distilled. poured half the mix in the rigged up induction coil container.
so:
solution not saturated enough? it dissolved all the draino.
need it inside the coil - the way it was built for? maybe?
to much volume in the container?
pvc wall thickness to thick?
frequency? i'm at 250khz.
put the 80watt bulb back on - bulb still works fine, nice and bright.
gota go.
nap
-
Hi Oswald,
Thanks for sharing this info.
I have some questions and hope you can answer them.
Your details are: 5watts (5Vx1A) on a coil of 800 wraps of 22G.
As far as i understand electromanets, this setup is not a very strong magnet.
Still your claim is that this creates HHO from tapwater saturated with NAOH?
Regards
Steve
www.ionizationx.com
-
need it inside the coil - the way it was built for? maybe?
First of all a big thanks to Oswaldonfire for sharing this all with us. Hope this leads to more then on the OUPower board.
Slapper,
If I understand you right then your NaOH/H2O Solution is not inside the tube?? If it is not then it certainly needs to be in there because that is where the magnetic field is....
Please let us know if I understood this right, thx.
Regards Dutchy
-
...This would be freaking huge!
If it works it definitely would be.
---
An interesting true scientific experiment would
be to seal some magnolyser water inside a glass
container. Then ignite the hho and burn it inside
the top of the sealed container ala John Kanzius.
So that the condensed water drains back into
the bulk magnolyser solution.
If the power output was overunity and is always the
same then the excess energy is coming from ZPE.
And therefore the water molecules just fall apart.
But if you get an exponential energy extinction
curve it could be proven that the excess energy
is coming from the deuterium cold fusion reaction.
The energy will approach faraday levels in the
lower limit as it's fuel runs out.
This could become the classic scientific experiment
for proving cold fusion and you will have performed
it first.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Thanks Oswald!! Even to me this makes perfect sense I think :) The reaction of water and Na produces H and the electrolysis process separates H & O (water). Add more water and the reaction continues...
@Slapper, if I read this thread correctly, the solution is comprised of Na/NaOH/H2O
-
Slapper -
Assuming that the Draino is 100% pure NaOH (which I don't know if it is), 8oz of it in 16oz of water will make only a 43% solution. In other words, increase the concentration of the NaOH by 2.31 times in order to make it a saturated solution.
The other thing I would check is to make sure that you have a strong magnetic flux happening outside the coil where the solution is.
Steve - I am aware, however remember how efficient this process is. That was the first version. and yes.
jsd453, if Na is added to the solution it will produce NaOH, which is really just Na+ and OH- ions in water.
So in the end, the solution is just NaOH/H2O, or Na+/OH-/H2O, to be exact.
-
Let's review what we have been shown
Jump in to add or correct info
-
as i've been stirring in some more draino i got to thinking that draino is junk.
i'll keep stirring in but i'm going to do a little studying.
hoping to get some good stuff by the end of the week. http://www.hydrite.com/ (http://www.hydrite.com/)
usually get down that direction once or twice a week. hard to keep track.
i do have my eyes looking for a small but long container that will fit in the hole.
<poorly worded speculation>the ferrite half-moon wedges serve to put a twist in
the field.</poorly worded speculation> i do believe the field is stronger inside the induction coil cavity.
the main amalgam is at the end of a long thin glass nipple protruding down the center of the of the bulbs cavity.
here is a pdf of a bulb and base that is very similar to the one i happen to have my hands on at this time.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=405 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=405) starting on page 4.
difference is it's main amalgam is on the outside of the coil and their coil is made for this purpose. it appears they
use a solid ferrite tube.
i'll try to do some gauss meter measurements tomorrow. not sure if i'll be able to get much out on the scope.
take care.
nap
-
Let's review what we have been shown
Jump in to add or correct info
Where did the four diferent windings come from I dont recall a number of windings.
I am winding mine now so if I missed something please let me know ASAP :o :(
-
here is a pdf on drano <-- i spelled it correctly the first time
http://justonly.com/chemistry/pdfs/drano.pdf (http://justonly.com/chemistry/pdfs/drano.pdf)
-
Breathing any form of aluminum as an
airborne contaminant is very unhealthy.
Please be careful.
-
Um...Not sure how to post pictures here....
Basically I use 1" PVC pipe, nylon nipples both ends. Pipe is 16 inches long, 12 inches of it wrapped 6 layers deep in 22AWG magnet wire.
Outside the magnet wire is a steel pipe slid over the top to effectively enhance the core strength hysteresis curve will slow it down a touch, but the ferric ringing will smooth out some of it.
I plan on connecting to ONE phase of the alternator, and seeing if it can run a 4 cylinder car.
The solution is ROEBICK drain cleaner, which is listed as 100% pure NaOH, sold for $8 for 2 pounds. I completely filled the chamber with the NaOH, then connected the water line, hydrogen output line and bubbler. I put the entire assembly into a concoction of my own brewing before adding the water.
The cooling brew was simple: steel bucket about 6 gallons MUST be used because the HDPE 5-gallon plastic buckets shatter too easy.
Get 4 gallons of isopropyl alcohol, and 10 pounds of dry ice. Add dry ice to the alcohol and stir using a metal rod and some damn good gloves with pot holders. Keep doing this until the dry ice is all gone.
Now put the assembly into the bucket, and add water through the hydrogen output line. As the solution tries to heat up, the supercooled alcohol keeps the temperature down and you don't melt the plastic.
I noticed a lot of things here were copy/pasted from AlaskaStar's thread, but without the garbage and mud slinging.
Also the claim that it would be the first time cold fusion was proven going to Oswaldonfire...I beg to differ. AlaskaStar published a powerpoint which a frame was referenced previously back in 2006 or 2007? Need to double check that. I also note that John Kanzius patented it AFTER AlaskaStar's powerpoint was published open-source...which should nullify Kanzius' patent. So I would opt to give the credit where it's due.
I certainly give credit to Oswaldonfire here for making it elementarily simple for people.
I have pictures, but I won't have video until the rain lets up. Cameras and torrential rain don't mix very well, and neither does my experimental time.
Back to work...
StihlWoody
-
Forgot to mention that the NaOH can be bought at Lowe's. SKU# 146450 2lb ROEBIC HD DRN REMOVAL.
It's on the end cap near plumbing at both Lowe's stores...so I imagine it's the same elsewhere.
If the rain doesn't let up, I think I will just put a big ballast resistor on it and plug it into the wall outlet and measure the hydrogen output.
StihlWoody
-
StihlWoody
Yes Many thanks to Oswald,
Quote:
If the rain doesn't let up, I think I will just put a big ballast resistor on it and plug it into the wall outlet and measure the hydrogen output.
----------------
Sounds very aggressive!!
NICE!!
@Airbag where did you find that info? staggered / multiple coils?
Chet
-
just some interesting things that might be relavant to this thread.
http://www.grid-shift.com/white_papers/docs/3D_Water_Electrolysis_May_10.htm
http://www.qsinano.com/about.php
I have talked to Robert Dopp a few times (and Alaska star) both are very clever men.
Kind Regards
mark
-
@ gsmsslsb -Re: Where did the four different windings come from I don't recall a number of windings.
I am winding mine now so if I missed something please let me know ASAP
and
@ ramset - Re: @Airbag where did you find that info? staggered / multiple coils?
A. - ALASKASTAR's ( Chris Hunter) info. It is presented in a Power Point layout here > http://altenergy.site90.com/hunter.htm
Also note that in my post # 105 -
@ oswaldonfire
A question:
Coils were mentioned - made of .... "800 or so turns of 22-gauge magnet wire wrapped around the outside of the pipe."
Q. - Were the turns continuous up the pipe or layered, a set of turns over the others ?
oswaldonfire said in reply at post # 106 - The turns were layered. The THICKER the coil, the STRONGER the flux inside.
One can assume that the different coils are layered over one another.
That ask the questions:
A . Which coil goes on first, the second etc. ?
B. Is coil A the only one powered ?
From the information so far we know this from this discussion - "The second experiment was a 555 timer PWM setup pulsing the coil. I want to say the circuit was running at around 125 kHz."
The power input was 5 watts total - 5v @ 1A.
So ........ 5 Volts at 1 Amp using a PWM to pulse the coil.
I hope this helps. I'm searcing for answers myself.
-
Wow
Lots more info!!
Thanks fellahs!!
Chet
-
@oswadonfire
Firstly thank you for your information. I have been folloing electrolysis and hydrogen production for many years. I have known Chris Hunter for about 4 years and he is young but very rereshing. In talking to hi I am out of my depth in minutes but I love is thinking.
Do not worry about your age, the best ideas come from young minds.
I have uilt, observed and worked with many systems to produce hydrogen. Chris gave me the info years ago but i never followed through on the magnetic induction one.
Just a couple of questions. please humor me and do not hol my ignorance against me.
In all examples of attempts to produce hydrogen something is consumed or converted into something else that needs converting back.
1. In eletrolysis using normal plates etc we consume electricity. Ie the best systems require around 2.5 watts per litre per hour.(I have seen beter but nothing that is scalable)
2.I have seen the chemical processes like puting aluminium or a metal in an acid in an alkaline solution. You end up with the metal being consumed (Chris had some great ideas about revering these processes an capturing the electricity but I always found he solution eventually broke don)
In other cses the mtal osidises as you have mentioned and then you hae to convert it back to the metal.
My question is, you claim the NAOH does not get consumed in your process. Howlong have you been able to run it for (in your first or small recator) before it has to be replaced or the gas production slowed ?
Kind Regards Mark
-
sorry about my last post. I was typing why someone was down loading a 5 gig file on my desk top. As such my keyboard missed a few hits.
I was not drunk.
Just another quick point. To run a 5 hp engine would require between 5 litres to 25 litres per minute depending on Revs or load. It takes in most conventional ICE engines between 5 and 7 litres per minute of Hydrogen to produce 1 HP
I. E. a commercially available 100 hp hydrogen engine consumes around 500 to 700 litres per minute of hydrogen under full load.
You need around a litre of water to produce at least 1500 litres of Hydrogen.
The bottle displacement method you described to measure hydrogen output is good. The other way is with water consumed.
Many Thanks
Mark
-
Let's look at the info.
Drain cleaner is made to pass through water as a BLOB and get to the obstruction. So, in the PIPE or TUBE the DRAIN CLEANER will be in the bottom, not necessarily mixed.
I believe that the process to prepare the Sodium Hydroxide is this:
The NaOH concentration is pushed to the 100% dilution. To determine the 100% dilution point, the NaOH is added and stirred in a large glass container and allowed to sit for 12 hours and anything more than the 100% dilution/saturation will precipitate out of solution and re-crystallize in the bottom of the container. Don't use these re-crystals. Use everything else.
If I read this right, only NaOH is in the glass container. 12+ hours later the concentration is achieved.
If the pipe is 1 inch in diameter and 10" long, how much drain cleaner (NaOH) should be in there ? 1/3. 1/2 ?? and the rest water.
As I asked before A . Which coil goes on first, the second etc. ? B. Is coil A the only one powered ? That is, if we use the 4 different coils.
Can anyone post a schematic of the Power Source, PWM and Hookup that may work in this unit ?
We also know that if all goes well, this unit will produce a lot of energy producing Hydrogen. It was stated that all the water ( how much ? ) was consumed in 10 minutes.
So, how will we control the reaction ? One method is to vary the VOLTAGE, AMPS or FREQUENCY. Because these are relatively low numbers it may be difficult to have instant control. Why not do like the nuclear reactors do ? Rods In, Rods Out. Build the coils around a very thin non restrictive material and use a device to slide the TUBE containing the NaHO and WATER up and down into the coil. Production is controlled by the % exposure of the liquids to the magnetic field. Just a thought.
-
Airbag -
The 4 coils mentioned in Alaska's powerpoint are from the first (and old) version of the magnetolysis unit. We both have since built units with single coils (multi-layered) that work just as well.
Slapper - you are right. Drano is not 100% pure NaOH - I would suggest getting ahold of the real stuff. Please post the results of your Gauss meter measurements, that would be some interesting data.
StihlWoody -
That sounds like an excellent setup! The thin steel sleeve to enhance the hysteresis curve is brilliant.
Please let us know how it goes with running a 4-cylinder engine, I am very interested.
And pictures and videos are always welcome.
I do not claim to be the inventor of this technology. I never have and never will. You are correct, AlaskaStar published a powerpoint in 2006 that made this technology open-source...BEFORE John Kanzius even began dabbling in this stuff. Alaska performed magnetolysis first - all credit goes to him.
The powerpoint should indeed nullify the patent. Since Kanzius is dead, nobody is left to defend it.
Mark -
The NaOH does not get consumed. Well, rather, the Na+ does not get consumed. The OH- is consumed to produce a portion of the gasses, but it is continually replenished from the water supply. So the concentration effectively stays the same. I have not been able to run my setup for long enough to "run out of" NaOH. However, it is safe to assume that small amounts are released with the gasses, and that eventually some would have to be replaced in order to keep the concentrations up - unless it was a closed system.
Airbag has posted a good method of producing the 100% solution of NaOH (did you get that off the oupower thread? I seem to remember reading that before).
I use that method. You need to wait until the solution is CLEAR. If it is still opaque, then you have produced a colloid and all you can do is wait until all the excess particles of NaOH have settled to the bottom. In some cases, I have had to wait several days for this to happen. Then, you must carefully extract the clear solution while not disturbing the crystals.
Just make sure that you are starting with 100% pure NaOH and that there are no other additives.
I also like your "control-rod" method of controlling production - it's an interesting take. Probably worth a try.
There is no separation between the NaOH and the water. Every drop of liquid in the pipe is of the NaOH solution.
Hope this helps.
Side note - has anyone made any progress on the chemistry of how this works?
AlaskaStar and I have created a presentation that provides every detail of how this process works - but before I release it I would like you guys to try and figure some of it out yourselves.
-
Oswaldonfire:
So I am going to be posting pictures today (damned camera...), and still figuring out the video mode on this camera, because 1 minute makes a 300MB file, horrendously large to do anything useful with.
If I get the 4 cylinder car running on this...what is the next step you propose?
StihlWoody
-
I can help you out with video if you need, I'm really proficient with that sort of stuff.
If you find your file is too large and don't feel like waiting a week for youtube, I could help you upload it to my server (which would be MUCH faster), and then I could convert the file to a smaller size for you and upload it. I have the sort of equipment to process this stuff that could spit out a file that size in less than a minute. Just let me know what you want to do.
If you are successful with running the car... then I think we will begin to get overwhelming attention on this subject.
I think the eventual goal is to create a small unit that could be bought for maybe a couple hundred dollars, and would be able to power anything you throw at it. Maybe it could be self-regulated within a certain output level, and have different models available for different applications.
Buy one to run your furnace. Buy one to run your car. Let's concentrate on developing this technology enough to get it out into the general public's hands.
-
Well, here's my pictures...
One tube is CLEARLY where the magnetolysis process occurs, the second tube is a scrubber/bubbler, and the 3rd tube the water refill.
I haven't driven to the hardware store yet to get the steel tube....
StihlWoody
-
Oswald,
I am very interested in your work, especially if you can get one to run a natural gas furnace. I look forward to your pics and you sharing more of your success with us! Thank you.
Mark
-
@ everyone
I will be salvaging some of my old projects and have a crack at this as well.
It is important to scrub the gas first. I spent many months in the USA running HHO through diesels etc in small quantities testing the effect it had on cleaning up emissions , power and econ my. One thing we noticed was often with he gas production yougot some steam which was in this case containing KOH. It was highly corrosive. By putting it through a bubbler we were able to scrub the gas and reclaim the lost KOH to be reused in the system
Also if you are running any engine on hydrogen they need to be modified or treated as you will soon run into embrittlement issues. many experimenters with HHO has run into this in the past. You can purchase new engines of all different sizes that are made to run on HHO or I believe (have never done it myself) youcan by treatments that will coat your parts n a way to protect it from metal embrittlement.
I am curious to get this running as an experiment to see ho much of the lye or solution is consumed. If it is minimal then it still a very cheap form of non polluting fuel.
This leads me to another question.
If you start with lets say our pre prepared saturated solution, how much water do we add to it to start with and how do we top it up on the fly?
Mark
-
I just read my last post and want to add a little for information on the recovery method. When we scrubbed the gas through the water we use this water to top up the electrolysis unit. It worked a treat. We were using both conventional plate cells (Bob Boyce arrangement) and what I known as Dry Cells or the Terro designs. We simply had the bubbler as part of the main unit with a hole between them below the fluid level so it would self top p. The gas was gathers and piped into this compartment containing the reserve. To this compartment we had the water reserve which just topped it up when it reached a certain level (this was pumped in)
I hope this makes sense.
Mark
-
Also the claim that it would be the first time cold fusion was proven going to Oswaldonfire...I beg to differ. AlaskaStar published a powerpoint which a frame was referenced previously back in 2006 or 2007? Need to double check that. I also note that John Kanzius patented it AFTER AlaskaStar's powerpoint was published open-source...which should nullify Kanzius' patent. So I would opt to give the credit where it's due.
Your getting this a little wrong...Oswaldonfire is really claiming that there
is no source for the energy required beyond the magnetic drive energy
required to magnolyse water. Which is OK, but this is a violation of the
conservation of energy law, and if it's happening then it's REALLY big news.
I am claiming that water molecules don't just fall apart but need extra energy
to make up for the difference in energy emitted beyond faraday
amounts (the amounts a plain old electrolyser uses.) But the cold
fusion explanation requires fuel in the water (deuterium) that will
be used up as the water is recycled in a closed container.
So if you can produce the amount of gas claimed (which is obviously WAY
overunity) then you or we can test if recycling the HHO causes the gain
to die out over time while the water is being recycled in a closed isolated
container...if it does then it is cold fusion...out if it never dies out, then
water molecules are just falling apart.
In either case the process still works, but in the deuterium case you
will have to recycle the water through the environment to pick up
new deuterium. No harm to know what you want it to do so that it
doesn't ever die out.
This John Kanius thing just paints a pretty picture because he never proved
that he even had overunity at all. Just that HHO could be combusted at the
same time it was being produced. I recognized that that could produce
a "Luminary: - a light bulb recycling the HHO. And I then recognized that
that could be used to prove cold fusion explanation for excess HHO or a ZPE
explanation.
So the experiment could be done by someone producing large amounts of
HHO. Just tell me which happens and how long it takes if it dies out.
It is something to look forward to if someone makes this work as claimed.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Oswaldonfire is really claiming that there
is no source for the energy required beyond the magnetic drive energy
required to magnolyse water. Which is OK, but this is a violation of the
conservation of energy law, and if it's happening then it's REALLY big news.
This process does not violate the first law of thermodynamics... at least the way I see it in my mind. There is always new energy coming into the system in the bonds of the water molecule. This process is already EXTREMELY efficient compared to conventional electrolysis - it doesn't have any of the drawbacks to overcome.
We are inputting energy - but only to split the water. And more energy is coming off of the water in the form of the gasses. The amount of energy contained in the system (in the water) is LESS THAN OR EQUAL TO the amount of energy coming out in the gasses. At least this is how I think of it.
Right now I have more of the mentality of, "who gives a shit exactly how it works or where the extra energy comes from - IT WORKS. Now let's build it again and make it better."
-
Right now I have more of the mentality of, "who gives a shit exactly how it works or where the extra energy comes from - IT WORKS. Now let's build it again and make it better."
Don't get me wrong...This is very important on it's own no matter
how it works...and you are doing good as long as you have seen it
work and helping us understand how to make it work...
But right behind it, is the question: "Where does the extra energy
come from?" For example if it violates the
2nd law of thermodynamics and it is not a "fueled process" then it absorbs
heat from the environment. As your furnace tries to heat your house
in the winter with HHO this cell will absorb it all again and you will be
left in the cold...It still has value but not the value it has if it is ZPE.
Whatever it's doing, it's first of it kind when proven widely...So continue.
If this is unimportant to you, it may also be important to science...
and if the answer is really bad it may turn into an archeilles-heel of
the proccess.
I am not trying to interfere. It's just very interesting. Please Proceed.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
@ everyone
I will be salvaging some of my old projects and have a crack at this as well.
It is important to scrub the gas first. I spent many months in the USA running HHO through diesels etc in small quantities testing the effect it had on cleaning up emissions , power and econ my. One thing we noticed was often with he gas production yougot some steam which was in this case containing KOH. It was highly corrosive. By putting it through a bubbler we were able to scrub the gas and reclaim the lost KOH to be reused in the system
Also if you are running any engine on hydrogen they need to be modified or treated as you will soon run into embrittlement issues. many experimenters with HHO has run into this in the past. You can purchase new engines of all different sizes that are made to run on HHO or I believe (have never done it myself) youcan by treatments that will coat your parts n a way to protect it from metal embrittlement.
I am curious to get this running as an experiment to see ho much of the lye or solution is consumed. If it is minimal then it still a very cheap form of non polluting fuel.
...
Mark
I think this thread should be divided into "before proof" and "after proof"
sections because there need to be a number of cautions about working
with hho using an electrolyser that produces large volumns of it. Now
is not the time to discuss this probably. There is a 4-cycle leaf blower
that runs on propane cyclinders that would be interesting to convert
to run on HHO - new but very inexpensive. Then maybe have that drive
an automobile alternator plus regulator plus car battery to make a mini
12VDC gen-set.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Oswald
Quote,
Right now I have more of the mentality of, "who gives a shit exactly how it works or where the extra energy comes from - IT WORKS. Now let's build it again and make it better."
---------------------------------
Thats the best page to be on!!
Thank you!!
Chet
-
@all
Just finished reading all the posts and am now excited all over again since trying some other stuff on this forum
I fully intend to attempt a replication as soon as I can get my hands on some lye
Come to think of it, I'll have to get some safety gear as well
When I get everything together I'll try to make some vids and pics along the way
Many thanks to all involved in bringing this to such a great forum, especially to Oswald for the nature in which this was introduced
Keep up the good work!
-
@ All
What we need is to come up with an off the shelf model of something with a variable frequency, power and magnetic field.
Is there any off the shelf solenoid or coil that's available that we could use to make it easier than winding and building circuits that could work for the average person to make a quick build?
I heard the mention of using thicker wire so would something like a starter solenoid for a car not work to create a strong magnetic field? Take the pvc pipe and stick it in where the driver pin would be?
I'm not up on all the ways to build a perfect coil for magnetic strength and frequency and power consumption but it would be nice if we could come up with something standard.
I'm posting a picture also of another source of KOH that's readily available but it's not drain cleaner, not sure of the purity although it says 100%, it's called Gillett's lye.
Edit: The above sentence should've been NaOH (Sodium hydroxide) not KOH (Potassium hydroxide) for the Gillett's lye, sorry folks I'm not educated in chemistry.
Regards.
Paul
-
Goat
Quote:
What we need is to come up with an off the shelf model of something with a variable frequency, power and magnetic field.
--------------------------
That and maybe a specific gravity ,viscosity,etc of the "solution"
First we need to Make the gas with this method!!
And then as Oswald says "Make it better"
Chet
-
@ ramset
Just a couple of thoughts....
I believe that the concentration was discussed in the oupower forum and quoted by Airbag in the previous page at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9448.msg250132#msg250132 so to repeat "The NaOH concentration is pushed to the 100% dilution".
On another note, I was wondering if a Bedini circuit could be used for the coil as they're easy enough to put together, just not sure if the frequency and magnetic flux would be strong enough. I've made some in the past that were self exciting and open core (air core) where you could slip in the PVC tube into it. I know they don't take much power to run and the coils don't get hot.
Regards,
Paul
-
Goat
Quote:
"The NaOH concentration is pushed to the 100% dilution".
-------------------------------------------------
Yes I did see that.
Determining a way to "measure" the concentration accurately for replication purposes is what I am referring to.
It may be a moot point and Gauss strength could be more important.
Either way ,experimenters need to have a good way to measure these levels of density
for purposes of replication and improving performance
How can we measure Gauss ?[pick up weights??]
How do we measure solution density [specific gravity,viscosity??]
Of course first we need a working system to start!
Chet
-
Of course first we need a working system to start!
YES.
Let's get some working replications happening - and THEN start worrying about these tiny details. Once we get a working model, then we can concentrate on modifying things and noting any effects they have.
While this can lead to some important discussion, **right now** it is more important that we get off our computers and begin experimenting. Once you have some results, come back and post them. Or if you have any questions specific to your unit. And post pictures!!
Everyone understands how it works, right? Then start building one! The first purpose of this thread was to get you to think in different ways and come up with a new, promising method. But now that everything is revealed, it will all be for nothing if everyone just sits there and says, "well damn, that's cool. I can't wait for someone to post results!" Nothing will happen if everyone has this mentality, and this thread will die just like the oupower one.
Get fired up! Let's get some tinkering and innovation going on down in the collective garages of this forum. Let's take this info, take our intelligence, get some replications and video cameras, and take the world of alternative energy by storm. Theorizing and all that is good, but let's keep it out of the way of this thread. Make a separate one for that. Let's dedicate this thread to hardcore progress from this point forward.
Good luck!
Oswaldonfire
-
@oswaldonfire
I for one am thinking that you know an exact easily describable method to build this. If you will detail that method then I can have one made and working in less than two hours after I get home from work. Otherwise you are no different than ten thousand people on this forum with a great idea that hope someone else will try it and see if it works.
If you detail your method and ten thousand people get it to work than all the credit is yours. You will have saved the world and made a fortune.
Garry
-
@Oswaldonfire
1. I previously asked how what is the ratio or water to our solution of NAOH is to be usd in the tube to start with?
2. Do you start with just the concentrated solution and add water or is it say 50/50.
3. You speak about lets get one running first,we are all here n the belief you did. Do you currently have one running and if ot when was the last time you did?
Yes my teamwill be replicating but some important info is still missing.
Mark
-
...
On another note, I was wondering if a Bedini circuit could be used for the coil as they're easy enough to put together, just not sure if the frequency and magnetic flux would be strong enough. I've made some in the past that were self exciting and open core (air core) where you could slip in the PVC tube into it. I know they don't take much power to run and the coils don't get hot.
Regards,
Paul
@goat
A better way to describe it would be to build a Joule Thief circuit
but put the magnolyser coil in place of the toroid but wind some
smaller gauge enamel wire around the driver coil that is there. Then
use a 2n3055 transistor rather a 2n2222. Start off with 5Volt DC
from an old PC power supply then to 9Volt and ultimately to 12VDC.
The Jt is a blocking oscillator and it’s output is pulses. This set
up should give you about 15Watts at 12VDC. The problem is the
process may modify it’s own waveform and we don’t know if that
would be a good or bad thing? Someone with a oscilloscope should
try it first to see what signal it is generating. It will need to have
it's operating frequency set with a capacitor.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
I'm a little puzzled.
The Power Point presentation from AlaskaStar spends far more time discussing the coil than the gas production. If this is a simple matter of magnetically exciting sodium ions to catalyze dissociation, then why the heavy emphasis on the coil. The reason I ask is because if the coils are wound as flat solenoids, and you pulse them with DC at resonance, they are going to act like Tesla coils and be producing some interesting LMD output. If that is a critical part of the process, then there is far more going on here than just the sodium thing.
Can oswaldonfire, or others who have built and demonstrated the claimed output, confirm whether that particular coil arrangement is critical to the results?
And on the subject of results, are there any video demonstrations? Forgive me if I missed the posting. These results are pretty extreme...would love to see some evidence before investing time and resources.
-
Quote:
it is more important that we get off our computers and begin experimenting.
---------------------------------------------------
As you wish!
Lets make some "GAS"
-
To those of you who are wondering about the exact state of the NAOH solution
that oswaldinfire is referring to, maybe I will be of some help.
He is clearly referring to a saturated solution of Sodium Hydroxide in tap water.
A saturated solution is made by gradually mixing Sodium Hydroxide into water so that
the solution doesn't get to hot. When reaching a point where the crystals seems to
stay undissolved one should wait at least a couple of hours before adding more if needed,
and then let it rest to next day.
If there is still undissolved crystals the next day, I can assure you that you have a
100% saturated solution.
Now you have to filter away all those solid crystals remaning, and what you will have after filtering
is an almost clear solution.
And just as mentioned, this is really a dangerous area of experiments, combining saturated lye
with an eventual explosive rapid release of HHO could easily become a disastrous situation.
Oswaldonfire also mentioned that the concentration of NAOH is going to be constant as long as there is
a continously adding of water replacing losses due to the HHO process.
I believe the best way to test oswaldonfires´ information is to simply express high frequency pulsed
EM fields into an open container of saturated NAOH, and watching the whole thing from a safe distance.
If this creates HHO in excess amounts, his words are validated.
No need for any exact simulations here or taking energy efficiency into consideration at this stage,
since the very concept of getting the ions in the solution to act as alternating cathodes/anodes is
what has to be tested.
Like so many other of you I will of course do some tests to verify this highly intriguing statement of oswaldonfire.
Thank you, by the way, oswaldonfire for this adrenalin boost in HHO experiments, really hope you are walking your talk.
Gwandau
-
Gwandau,
Quote:
A saturated solution is made by gradually mixing Sodium Hydroxide into water so that
the solution doesn't get to hot.
------------------------------------------
Do you say this for safety ?
Or does something get lost in the sauce if you mix it to aggressively [Hot]?
Thanks
Chet
-
Here's some practical experience. They probably aren't mixing to 100% saturation. Still, it told me alot in just the 3 minutes watching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EqmC-eltHA
-
@niofox
good video on mixing the lye.
-
@Gwandau
good advice. I know with using KOH over the years how dangerous it can be.
I agree that at this stage we only need to prove these claims with small steps. The fine tuning will come latter.
With the number of people replicating we will all soon know if his hypothesis is supported.
kind Regards
Mark
-
The pictures I posted took only 1 hour to build.
Parts (not counting the wire) were all purchased at Lowe's for under $50.
I think that's quite reasonable for a quick and easy setup to find out if it works.
At least it's not precision cut 316L stainless into concentric rings and some fancy Flux Capacitor and Time Shifting Toroidal Caduceus Coil for a Stan-Meyers/Joe Cell.
Could it be any simpler?
StihlWoody
-
There are four (4) areas of caution
that need to be handled with this:
a - cautions of dealing with quantities of HHO
b - cautions of dealing with concentrated NaOH liquid electrolyte
c - cautions of dealing with RF radio frequency shielding
d - methods of getting reliable feed water into the cell
But as long as people keep experiments brief no-one
should be excessively concerned about the above
until they are producing actual quantities of HHO.
One way is to edge in on the process - use voltages below
twelve volts and see what it can do. There are several
youtube videos that give typical liters of HHO per watt
(@STP) generation figures for standard faraday electrolysers
and they come in approximately the same. What we want to
see here, is a lot more liters per watt.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Well, my shop has all the proper safety gear, including a vented box with 1" thick bullet-proofed plexi, and chemical safety gear so that I can simply plug it into the wall outlet. I will just see if it bubbles any or not, and from there I can post results.
I put a Steel tube over the wires so that the tube becomes a hollow ferrous core, and the standing wave effect will be effectively nullified.
I am using a ballast resistor to keep the coils physically cold, and then just plug it into the wall when I get a break from all this work. No rest for the self employed!
StihlWoody
-
Using this link:
http://www.horrorseek.com/home/halloween/wolfstone/TechBase/com555_555TimerCalc.html
I found the resistor values needed for 125KHz square pulse for the circuit diagram they provide. R1 = 1000, R2 = 940, C1 = 0.004
I think I already have this circuit setup at home. Now I just need to make the resistor adjustments
I sourced the lye (everyone here calls it caustic soda. They have no idea what lye is) and will pick it up on my way home, along with the other stuff I'll need to put this thing together.
Hopefully on Saturday I'll be making gasses. And not just the kinda that occur after lunch 8)
Edit:
Of course the output from this circuit will not be leds but will bias the base of a transistor (using ones from my Bedini experiments) which will allow my 2nd voltage source (an adjustable adapter) to juice up the coil.
Here's another nice link that has some more detailed info as well as a whole set of other circuits
http://home.cogeco.ca/~rpaisley4/LM555.html#3
-
ramset,
sorry for my late answer.
It is all for your safety. NAOH reacts aggressively with water, and if you by accident happens
to get water into the NAOH container, it will definitely explode.
Also too much NAOH poured into the water without any delay will create such an aggressive reaction that it will boil almost explosively,
additionally creating a poisonous and corrosive chlorine gas strong enough to severe your lungs for life if inhaled.
Chlorine gas is heavier than air and has a strong irritating odor like bleach. We are able to smell chlorine at levels much lower than those levels
considered harmful. It has been intentionally used as a weapon during World War I and in IED detonations in Iraq.
Relatively low levels of chlorine gas can cause sore throat, coughing, and eye and skin irritation, while higher levels can cause burning of the eyes and skin,
nausea, temporary blindiness, difficulty breathing, and chest pain. At high enough levels, chlorine gas can cause immediate collapse and death.
As a NAOH solution in water it also reacts with aluminium, magnesium, zinc (galvanized), tin, chromium, brass, and bronze and this will produce hydrogen gas,
in some cases extremely aggressively (magnesium).
Lye may also react with various sugars to generate carbon monoxide, which is a poisonous gas; mixing sodium hydroxide and sugar is therefore dangerous.
So just as mscoffman emphasizes, there are a lot of cautions to be considered, and personally I would recommend the experiments proposed by oswaldonfire
to be performed outdoors with safety glasses and proper clothing if you don't happen to be the owner of a high risk chemistry lab.
Gwandau
-
I have since taken apart my old circuit for other projects, and I never wrote down exactly how it was configured. However - I will see what I can dig up.
I have ordered a small magnetic induction lamp - it arrives on the 28th. The plan is to take apart the light to get the ballast and the induction coils to drive my setup - you already read how similar these processes are. Instead of designing something, why not just get something that already has been professionally designed to do exactly what you want it to do?
That's my thinking behind it, and I will post how well it works or does not work.
Everyone here could buy a lamp and create their own - it's not hard. We'll see.
How's it coming with the chemistry?
@ oswaldonfire
You mentioned you had the circuit put together earlier in your reply to my post about the circuit.
Where did you get the information for the circuit you had and can you still get it for us?
It seems odd that you had the proper circuit and coil that worked and now you've lost it and are now trying other circuits like the small magnetic induction lamp to experiment with, why not start back to the circuit you originally had that worked and go from there?
I'm trying to get all my ducks lined up for a circuit/coil/NaOH container/bubbler/burner setup but the missing piece is Alaskastars original circuit(s), he tried 3 different ones from what I read at Oupower.
I tried to find information about the circuit(s) at the Oupower forum and everyone that posted about using Alaskastar's circuit(s) was from his projects folder.
Unfortunately he emptied his folder because of all the BS in the thread and joined another forum on another site....
"Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:02 pm Post subject:
Reply with quote
Correct. The project folder is empty, and has been for a while now.
A person only has so much time and patience for bullshitters.
I am on a new forum, a private one, as are a few of the members here.
The new forum, bullshit isn't allowed in.
Hope you enjoy this forum, for what it has become, as it could have been great, it could have been much much more than what it is now.
Keep in mind that the site admin no longer visits here, nor ever posts here."
So oswaldonfire my question to you is, where are the circuit(s) that Alaskastar originally posted?
In post http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=post;quote=249731;topic=9448.75;num_replies=168;d179290c3=7f85ba6c789c5fcd7cffce515f247a6b you mentioned that "I do know the inventor. He and I decided that it would be best to release the information freely as I am doing so right now."
The only problem is that in order to replicate this experiment we need the proper circuit information, otherwise, how can we replicate it?
Regards,
Paul
-
@Paul
you hit the nail on the head. It would be usefull to replicate the original experiment and coil winding as per what worked before. This is a great starting point.
However if using the lamp eqipment works that may be a great starting point as well.
I have the parts (well have to wind the coil yet) and am waiting to see what circut I need before progressing any further.
I do have some original documents Chris Hunter had forwared to me some time ago but will check with him if it is ok to pass it on.
Mark
-
I believe the best way to test oswaldonfires´ information is to simply express high frequency pulsed
EM fields into an open container of saturated NAOH, and watching the whole thing from a safe distance.
This is an excellent way to go about it.
No need for any exact simulations here or taking energy efficiency into consideration at this stage,
since the very concept of getting the ions in the solution to act as alternating cathodes/anodes is
what has to be tested.
Thank you!!
For now, the first priority is just getting bubbles. Then we can work out solutions to other things.
Gwandau, excellent information.
MarkSCoffman, you are right.
Good stuff, niofox.
Goat, I moved from my original circuit because I wanted to try something that was engineered to produce a stronger magnetic flux. As someone pointed out - the original coil was not terribly strong. It was simply an idea that I had, and I wanted to test it out. It may or may not work better - but that is how things are discovered and progress is made.
I talked to Alaska, and he is trying to locate the pictures that he posted. If he can dig them up again, I will post them here.
I am also surprised that there is so little attention being paid to StihlWoody's replication. I mean, he is the first one to post pictures of a real replication, and all he is waiting to do is plug it in and look for some results. Maybe we could get some feedback and conversation happening about his replication.. although it is good that you are all concentrating on your own.
Anyway, just trying to provide more fuel for this thread.
Good luck
Oswaldonfire
-
@ markdansie & oswaldonfire
Thank you both for your comments.
I'll wait for further information on the circuit(s) info before proceeding.
Regards,
Paul
-
I am also surprised that there is so little attention being paid to StihlWoody's replication.
Anyone who has hung around this and other similar forums is well versed in the many ways that these 'simple' experiments universally fail to produce meaningful results. Show something...anything...that demonstrates the effect you describe and this thread will be 100 pages long in a matter of days, with 25 independent replications.
So far what we have heard is a nice theory that violates accepted conservation laws. I personally would invest considerable resources if you or anyone else could show a video of the effect...but not until then.
-
Anyone who has hung around this and other similar forums is well versed in the many ways that these 'simple' experiments universally fail to produce meaningful results. Show something...anything...that demonstrates the effect you describe and this thread will be 100 pages long in a matter of days, with 25 independent replications.
So far what we have heard is a nice theory that violates accepted conservation laws. I personally would invest considerable resources if you or anyone else could show a video of the effect...but not until then.
@ LtBolo
I agree with you and this is why in my previous post I mentioned "replicate" and without all the information it's impossible to replicate an experiment without all the information of the original experiment that worked!
So I guess we just have to be patient and hope that all the information that was used in the original experiment that worked comes to us from the inventor or anyone that has tried this method and had success with it and is described in detail, circuit(s) and all.
So I'm taking the wait and see method. It's not that it's a complicated experiment, it's only a matter of time before all information from the original experiment is detailed and then it's just a matter of replication.
Time will tell, we just have to be patient.
Added: See me as Vulture # 2 getting impatient...LOL
Regards,
Paul
-
@ All
Just found some useful info of a replication that didn't work...
http://www.chrismarion.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100&Itemid=205
Perhaps this info can be used to eliminate some of the variables that don't work in the replication of the original experiment....
Regards,
Paul
-
@ All
I was thinking and looking into info on Sodium Hydroxide Solutions (Specific gravity compared to water) and wondering if the problem of over coming the boiling off and replacing the NaOH solution being burned off with fresh water could be overcome with a 5 gallon of fresh water being supplied to the bottom of the the small of 1" (1 Inch) PVC tube of NaOH solution by the way of a float system similar to a toilet tank or any other float system.
The idea is pretty simple, keep a big reservoir topped up via a float system feeding the smaller 1" (1 Inch) PVC tube of NaOH solution topped up as it is depleting the ammount of solution being "boiled off" as HHO.
Question is I can't find an answer as to top feed or bottom feed the water to the 1" (1 Inch) PVC tube of NaOH solution because of the specific gravity difference between water and the NaOH solution.
Hope this isn't too confusing for those that have a chemistry background and actually understand what I'm asking here.
Regards,
Paul
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s4037.htm
-
I do not have a chemistry background but I would think since you would want to keep the solution saturated, then you would add the water from the direction that would force it to flow to the opposite end and thus mix with the existing solution. Meaning whichever is heavier then feed the water from the opposite end.
-
I am replicating with the instructions that we have so far.
I wound 1000 turns of .5mm copper magnet wire in two layers over 10 inches of one inch PVC.
I have a variable frequency driver with a 555 timer running a 2n3055 transistor.
I have been mixing naoh into the water for two days now but it just keeps eating it.
I have added at least a kilo of naoh pearls to 2.5 litres of water in small lots so it doesn't boil
Each time I come back there is a little precipitate but then I add more and it disolves in so I am still adding.
-
I do not have a chemistry background but I would think since you would want to keep the solution saturated, then you would add the water from the direction that would force it to flow to the opposite end and thus mix with the existing solution. Meaning whichever is heavier then feed the water from the opposite end.
@ sergenet
Thanks for the response, I think one would need to feed the water from the bottom of the PVC reaction tube because water is lighter in specific gravity than a solution of NaOH in water.
In section 9 of the msds sheet from the link I posted earlier http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/s4034.htm it mentions the following:
Solubility:
111 g/100 g of water.
Specific Gravity:
2.13
So being that water is lighter it would need to be added from the bottom of the PVC tube otherwise if you added it from the top it would sit on top of the solution.
This whole point might be moot as the solution is being agitated as it is being pulsed by the coil and the water would probably mix into it.
I'm just trying to figure out which kind of fittings and hoses to get and where they should be hooked up on the PVC tube.
Regards,
Paul
-
The place was closed when I left work, but I got everything this morning
1/2" PVC pipe, safety wear, 2kg Caustic Soda
Can't mix it until we get another sunny day however. All rain this past week.
There's just no way I'm mixing this inside my stuffy place
Will be winding the coil when I get home. Luckily I've got a 4-day weekend to get this thing running ;D
I noticed I had the capacitor wrong in my previous post. I'm actually using a 0.001 cap
Along with the resistors I already have I will be using a 1k for R1, and a 5k + 220 in series for R2
According to the calculator I'll get 126KHz. Will prolly use my 5k pot in there to change the frequency if it doesn't work at first
-
@niofox,
the pvc is supposed to be 1 inch in diameter. The half inch is just too small although ok if you just want to find out if the idea works. You dont need much solution to fill it up. Good luck.
Serge
-
@ All
Just found some useful info of a replication that didn't work...
http://www.chrismarion.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=100&Itemid=205
Perhaps this info can be used to eliminate some of the variables that don't work in the replication of the original experiment....
Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul and Oswald,
Thanx Paul for the link.
I had a look at this experiment and to me it seems he does exactly what we are expected to do.....
What is wrong in this experiment?
@Oswald
Any comments on the experiment shown? Is this how we have to try replication?
regards,
Dutchy
-
Just tried it.
No joy yet. :( :(
I think with 1000 turns I may need more than 12 volts to get action.
The 100% solution is quite syrupy when pouring it.
Pulling 12 volt .17 amps = 2.04 watts may need to put more watts through to get action.
-
gsmsslsb
I'm going your route [lye syrup]
Will slap this rocket fuel silly with whatever it takes !
Still "Brewing"
This may have been posted already.
Hydrogen Magnetrolysis
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=66598
Chet
-
Hi,
Still wondering about the liquid electrodes.....
We mix NaOH into water --> Na+ and OH- and H2O solution
If we put a magnetic field through this, the ions get deflected by lorentz force. So the Na+ and OH- go in opposite direction and it would seem they create the liquid electrodes on either side of the containing vessel.
Something like:
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
IF this is the way to do it then there are some things to think about while pulsing the liquid. If we let the magnetic field completely collapse we will get a magnetic field in the other direction and this will influence the ions again (will be deflected in the other direction). We will probably never get the right liquid electrodes that way. All it is doing is shaking the Ions back and forth.....
So maybe we have to pulsate the magnetic field but NOT let it collapse completely....
Just my two cents worth....
Dutchy
-
@niofox,
the pvc is supposed to be 1 inch in diameter. The half inch is just too small although ok if you just want to find out if the idea works. You dont need much solution to fill it up. Good luck.
Serge
Quite right sir, I tend to miss details :S
But now that I think about it ... if I concentrate the magnetic field on a smaller area would that be similar to increasing the field strength on the original area size?
Indeed I do just want to see if the idea works, but winding coils has never been an easy thing for me, so increasing from 800 turns say to 1600 would be way more hassle the just using a smaller container. Well, I'm just going on common sense here, I never seem to be able to grasp the nature of magnetic fields properly ... let me know if I've got it all wrong before I waste a lot of time :P
-
Plain Jane magnet does tho job.
http://www.electricitybook.com/magnetism/
Chet
-
Got a hold of some Roebic crystal drain opener from a local Ace Hardware store. I let the first mix get away from me and by the end of the day the milky white solution was solidified. Could barely stick my stir rod in it. I now have a more syrupy solution with my second attempt with the Roebic crystals. It is not settling clear.
The 80-85 watt electronic ballasts that I have sense if the correct load is on the induction coil assembly. If the load current or resonant frequency is not within the proper operating range a relay cycles and disconnects the output drive.
To fake a load I've slipped in a ring of aluminum, down toward the base, before I slide the container over the induction coil. The top of the aluminum ring is up 1-1/2 inches off from the base of the induction coil assembly. The ballast stays on now and heats the aluminum ring underneath the container to an uncomfortable level. But no bubbles in the solution yet.
So far I have not been able to compensate for the operating range by placing anything inside the induction coil's cavity.
I've not been able to get enough clear data from my gauss meter. The frequency seems to be to high. Can not figure that one out as I know how fast those hall sensors can be. I'll keep working on it. A single turn loop of wire shows a strong field.
Take care.
nap
-
Here is the Magneto RF circuit that Alaskastar said was working...
-
@ Passion1
Excellent find!
I looked at the list of components that Alaskastar had listed on http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=315&sid=db62edf009caea84de790aeb11d55f19
Do you or anyone else here know if they are the components to the schematic just posted above?
555 Timer IC
1 Megaohm Cermet Potentiometer
47K Ohm Resistor
330 Ohm Resistor
1 uf tantalum (Polarized) capacitor
0.1 uf disc (non polarized) capacitor
LM7805
10 uf Polarized electrolytic capacitor
100 uf Polarized electrolytic capacitor
IRF540N HEXFET
Xenon Bulb
1 Mega-Ohm Resistor, 0.125 watt
Regards,
Paul
-
Paul
Yes, that is the components.
I got the schematic directly from Chris (Alaskastar) back in 2008.
(Since this circuit/pcb was already posted on the oupower forum as open source previously, I believe I may post it here. If not, then please remove my post)
I also attach a photo of a unit that was used/built by Alaskastar himself.
At the time I was just as excited about the concept as everyone else in this thread.
Chris also sold PCB's at the time (see attached PCB layout) for the circuit and I ordered two pcb's from Chris (hand built by himself with the right components).
Did everything he told me in e-mails but could not get it going?
Chris is a nice guy and I trust him but I cannot explain why I couldnot get it to work even while using a pcb built by Chris himself.
I tried several different configurations of pipe diameter and number of windings and/or wire thickness, but no luck.
Hope that some of you have more luck than myself and share your success if you do!
Just be VERY careful because the super saturated NaOH solution is really very very nasty. One drop of that in your eye and you’re blind....
Unfortunately, this is all information I have to share.
Good luck!
-
Passion,
Your input here is priceless!
thank you
Can you give more detail on what you tried?
Oswald implied GAUSS brought home the bacon.
suggesting the "soup density " and the Gauss strength were key to success.
Oswald also mentioned other successful replications,
Did you see any vids?
all the vids from back then of this working have been removed for "violations"[as the ones I posted above]
I had to run out of state for a few days ,my stew is brewing back home.
This will be a really big deal when we get some replications.
Which is what we were told this thread is all about!!
OPEN SOURCE REPLICATION!! [that would be nice]
Thanks
Chet PS
BTW
I have absolute confidence that what these young men have done is 100% true.
Lets take it up a notch fellas [Oswald and Chris]
We need your help and guidance with this [replication].
And I know many other young men of similar beliefs that would love to follow your lead.
-
My solution went a bit awry when I stirred it with an (unknown to me) aluminium spoon
I realized it was fishy when it started bubbling on the spoon itself
I quickly changed over to using a random piece of wood but I think I may have introduced unwanted contamination
Still, who knows, maybe that's what's missing (wishful thinking +5)
So here's my slightly syrupy solution after siphoning - looking much like watery honey
Also a snapshot of my initial try at the circuit I had in my head
The 555 Timer is putting out ~300Khz now. I had to change my resistors and cap cuz for some reason it wasn't coming to what the calculations said it would ... maybe I was reading the capacitor value wrong or something. I'm now using a 102 - 2KV ceramic cap, R1=220, R2=440. I just have to figure out the next part with the transistor :-\
-
This part of a project where the first experiments are made is always the most fun part.
Anything may surface.
I have a feeling oswaldonfire is walking his talk, that he really has experienced what he talks about.
But I also have a feeling he somehow lost it along the way, and now needs help to pin it down to a repeatable
situation again. Just like John Hutchinton, who never really could repeat his gravity experiments,
because he never recorded the exact configurations.
dutchy1966,
your thoughts about the magnetolysis are interesting, although quite different to my own ideas about how the oswaldonfire-magnetolysis is facilitated.
Still, this is what makes cooperative research fruitful, and your attempt to relate to the common way of electrolysis
is very valuable, since this so called magnetolysis still probably just is ordinary electrolysis although very efficiently fed by the EM field.
Your concept of how the liquid electrodes are created seems to imply an unidirectional pulsed current through the coil,
created by a PWM and thus making the positive and negative ions separate into opposing parts of the container.
This assumes a stable opposing liquid ion disposition in the container regardless of strong liquid currents due to massive HHO production and heat,
which I personally am afraid will not be the case, since the solution will risk getting thorougly mixed the same instant HHO production starts.
But who knows? At this stage anything is possible.
Personally I will check out the perimenters of alternating electromagnetic fields expressed in a saturated NAOH-solution.
By expressing an alternating EM polarity into the liquid electrodes we may have a electrolytic cathode/anode situation
represented everywhere in the solution.
But there is so many unknown parameters to this riddle, that we can start wherever we want.
Maybe there is a certain resonance point hiding in the high frequency range of alternating EM polarities,
a resonance point triggering cavitation and all kind of stuff in the Planck range. Then we are dealing
with something quite different to ordinary electrolysis.
My own approach to this experiment will initially be by applying an alternating current through one single coil
placed around a cylindrical open container with saturated NAOH solution.
If needed, secondary experiments with two separate coils inducing interacting effects will be employed.
A friend of mine who is a developer in electronic control systems has promised me to come up with a nice solution
which will create a high frequency alternating EM pulse system that will be adjustable from 5 to 100 Watt and with
an adjustable frequency range between 50HZ and 1 MHZ.
This will allow me to employ a wide range of different high Gauss electromagnetic effects upon the NAOH solution.
He also told me a good start would be a high watt tone generator, like an ordinary amplifier, which is capable of
generating an alternating current strong enough to reach the gauss levels needed for the experiment.
Really looking forward to put it to test.
Gwandau
-
Went through my stuff and found one more circuit diagram that differs from the previous one.
Can vaguely remember that Alaskastar made a change (but I anyway used his latest updated pcb that I bought from him at the time).
I believe the second circuit (attached below) is the correct one.
Can't find the notes I made at the time, but my units looked almost exactly like the one in my previous post.
Note that Alaskastar used just ONE continuous coil (may be more than one layer of windings) and not multiple coils as in his Powerpoint document.
For some tests I used NaOH bought from my nearest hardware store and for some I used high quality chemical grade KOH. But no success.
Sorry, this is all I've got....
-
http://hhoinfo.ning.com/profiles/blogs/reducing-electrolysis-power
-
Sorry I posted the wrong one
Mark
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=magnetic+electrolysis&hl=en&rlz=1T4TSHN_enAU319AU319&prmd=v&ei=ywNYTJrPAonQccnusdQI&start=40&sa=N
-
I found some info, can be helpful:
http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/books/the_chemistry_and_manufacture_of_hydrogen.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TinQ3iV403s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smQEBW9UFNI&NR=1
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/DopageVitry_English.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zn2tGyGlTw&feature=related
-
Well Fellas
If Chris did this and wants to share how ,as Oswald says he /they do?
Lets ask him to join us here!
Chasing 10,000 hits at this thread with very little effort!
This one isn't going away!!
Call him, E mail him Invite him,to this
Open source world wide "public" forum.
Have your bulbs[as Os mentioned] and your salts ready!
lets help him change this world !
---------------------------------------------------------------
From marks post above!
CHRIS HUNTER
MAILING: 3150 SOUTH STORYBOOK CIRCLE WASILLA, ALASKA, 99654
PHONE: (907) 775-0765 (24 HOUR MESSAGE) ALASKA STANDARD E-MAIL: ALASKASTAR2000@HOTMAIL.COM
If nothing changes,
nothing will.
Chetkremens@gmail.com
-
@All
Let's not forget that the late John Kansius proved that EMF decomposition of
sea salt water electrolyte was possible near 13.0Mhz at 300Watts with pure EMF.
This experiment was reproduced by another scientist. It should be possible for
someone to see if they can experimentally retrieve this reaction and pull this
down to the 100KHz RF region where one could use more available 1KW audio
amplifier as final drive. I have some ideas for what the transducer coil would look
like.
---
@ramset
Concerning the Web link;
http://altenergy.site90.com/H2_MAGNETIC_GENERATOR.ppt
This link is interesting because I see some commonality With this Chris's coil
assembly and an possibly an early experimental NMR nuclear magnetic
resonance antenna transducer which may explain where the extra pulses
are coming from?
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Chris responded,
Alaska Star
to me
show details 3:15 PM (43 minutes ago)
I have been reading this thread since----------- started it.
You guys are on the right track.
There's so many variables that you can modify from the size of the coil, the length of the coil, the strength of the coil, the dilution of the liquid, the frequency of operation, whether the field drops below zero line, if the coil has a ferric housing around the winding, ferric ringing, the type of material to make the coil (maybe copper coated steel wire dipped in the enamel to make magnet wire?) and anything else you can think of.
That particular technology for me was to just do it, see if it worked, post that it worked and move on to something else. It was originally nothing more than a satisfaction of my curiosity.
Chris
------------------------------
Chris ,
We like this [alot]!
Any contributions you can offer as we start posting our results would be great!!
We need more Men like you in this world!
Chet
Ps,
yes Mark C
Chris is a brilliant man!
His step by step commentary is wonderful in helping to understand what is going on!
And perhaps we can hone this technology into something to make this world closer to his [and our]idea of a better world!
OPEN SOURCE!!
PPS
A little OU gas production would go a long way towards boosting morale around here!
-
Chris responded,
Alaska Star
to me
show details 3:15 PM (43 minutes ago)
I have been reading this thread since----------- started it.
You guys are on the right track.
There's so many variables that you can modify from the size of the coil, the length of the coil, the strength of the coil, the dilution of the liquid, the frequency of operation, whether the field drops below zero line, if the coil has a ferric housing around the winding, ferric ringing, the type of material to make the coil (maybe copper coated steel wire dipped in the enamel to make magnet wire?) and anything else you can think of.
That particular technology for me was to just do it, see if it worked, post that it worked and move on to something else. It was originally nothing more than a satisfaction of my curiosity.
Chris
------------------------------
Chris ,
We like this [alot]!
Any contributions you can offer as we start posting our results would be great!!
We need more Men like you in this world!
Chet
Ps,
yes Mark C
Chris is a brilliant man!
His step by step commentary is wonderful in helping to understand what is going on!
And perhaps we can hone this technology into something to make this world closer to his [and our]idea of a better world!
OPEN SOURCE!!
PPS
A little OU gas production would go a long way towards boosting morale around here!
@ Chet
Thanks for the update but.....something about this doesn't make sense and like many OU claims this is another one where we have no proof of a successful replication by anyone...if an inventor comes up with a way to produce HHO as claimed by Chris then abandons it without ever helping someone replicate a successful duplicate of his original I always get very suspicious...sorry if this sounds negative but so far from what I've seen and read is that Chris and Oswald both claimed that it works without proof....there's a bunch of information about it on the OUpower forum but it added up to nothing...then the circuit(s) were provided with incomplete information about the placement of the components and their values....then Chris just mentioned to you that "There's so many variables that you can modify"...why the original circuit worked why would you do that???
If you were to come up with a circuit that works at producing copious amounts of HHO that heretofore had never been accomplished would you throw away that circuit and just move on to other projects? Call me crazy but I think it's irresponsibly insane to just walk away from something as big as this when you could have saved mankind from it's energy dependence on oil and all the pollution and wars it brings to this world...
Having said all that I still hope that someone can come up with a circuit that actually works and proves that this method is indeed the way to go because so far it doesn't look all that promising.
Regards,
Paul
-
Paul
I don't know what happened 3-5 years ago?
After "studying" all the data presented by many readers here,
and all their ideas,
I'm in [for replication ]
This I can do[attempt] and this I can grasp how it could work!
The way Oswald laid it out, It almost falls into that righteous" common seance" arena!
And If Chris can add input {or not].
So be it!
I spent most of my life in heavy construction/demolition in the streets of NYC,
A VERY rough place to do business!
You get a feel for BS!!
This fellow ain't a BSer
On the contrary!
He's a man of impeccable moral fiber!!
:)
Its the least I can do!
Chet
PS
who knows ?
Maybe I'll hook up one of Dr, Stiffler's SEC's,and give it a whirl??
-
Flat solenoids, much like one you would wind around a pipe, are inherently resonant in the spirit of a Tesla transformer. When the coil is designed for high Q, a sharp impulse from a fast FET switch, or better yet a capacitive discharge through a spark gap, it will accumulate reactive energy with each impulse. It could be the intensity of the reactive energy, or perhaps the resonance at a specific frequency, that is the key for triggering the reaction.
Think of it this way: If you have a tuning fork that rings at 1000Hz, and you were to attach a magnetic coil assembly to excite it, if the coil assembly was highly resonant at 1000Hz, you could excite the tuning fork with almost no power. If the coil was not resonant, however, it might take far more energy to excite the same output.
There are many possible resonances in this system: The coil, the column of water acoustically, the column of water electrically, the NaOH ions in solution, etc. When the coil resonance matches the drive frequency, you can excite the coil with very little energy. When the coil frequency matches something in the water too, perhaps the reaction can be started with very little power.
I certainly have no clue, having not tried it...but...I think that is the kind of thinking Chris is encouraging, and is perhaps the reason that some have good results and some none at all.
-
Flat solenoids, much like one you would wind around a pipe, are inherently resonant in the spirit of a Tesla transformer. When the coil is designed for high Q, a sharp impulse from a fast FET switch, or better yet a capacitive discharge through a spark gap, it will accumulate reactive energy with each impulse. It could be the intensity of the reactive energy, or perhaps the resonance at a specific frequency, that is the key for triggering the reaction.
Think of it this way: If you have a tuning fork that rings at 1000Hz, and you were to attach a magnetic coil assembly to excite it, if the coil assembly was highly resonant at 1000Hz, you could excite the tuning fork with almost no power. If the coil was not resonant, however, it might take far more energy to excite the same output.
There are many possible resonances in this system: The coil, the column of water acoustically, the column of water electrically, the NaOH ions in solution, etc. When the coil resonance matches the drive frequency, you can excite the coil with very little energy. When the coil frequency matches something in the water too, perhaps the reaction can be started with very little power.
I certainly have no clue, having not tried it...but...I think that is the kind of thinking Chris is encouraging, and is perhaps the reason that some have good results and some none at all.
@ LtBolo
I understand what you're saying but I ran across this from Alaskastar at the OUpower forum so I'm not sure about the frequency and resonance but more to do with Gauss strength...
I lost the link to this quote but it's in the thread on some page:
Edit: Link to page at http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285
"FIRST TEST:
AT A FRIEND'S HOUSE, WE USED 17.1 MHZ POWER TRANSISTORS JUST LIKE
THOSE USED IN TRANSMITTERS TO PERFORM THE TEST. WE COULD NOT GET
ENOUGH WATER INTO THE DAMNED COILS FAST ENOUGH. I DO NOT HAVE AN
FCC LICENSE TO PURCHASE THE AFOREMENTIONED EQUIPMENT, HE TURNED
INTO AN ASS, AND WE HAVEN'T SPOKEN IN QUITE A WHILE SINCE.
SECOND TEST:
USED A 555 TIMER PWM, AND SEVERAL COIL DESIGNS, AND DISCOVERED IT HAS
LITTLE TO DO WITH FREQUENCY, AND MORE TO DO WITH THE GAUSS
STRENGTH."
It would be nice if Chris had documented his experiments with the right combination that was successful. We do have a lot of information but which of the variables work well you got me on that one :)
Chris also mentioned 3 different methods he had tried which I"m still looking for but it was basically what he mentioned above.
Regards,
Paul
-
I understand what you're saying but I ran across this from Alaskastar at the OUpower forum so I'm not sure about the frequency and resonance but more to do with Gauss strength...
Yeah, I read that. High Q coil resonance will increase the magnetic field with very little input. Hence my statement that it could be the intensity of the reactive energy.
But...
If others have taken Chris' own board, with his guidance, and were unable to get any meaningful results, I would be questioning his conclusions. The logical next step after testing high magnetic strength generated efficiently via resonance, is to look for other sympathetic resonances.
If this were as easy as Oswald suggested, there would already be a pile of replications. Since there doesn't seem to be, if we accept what Oswald and Chris have said as truth, then we have to assume there is more to the story. I am just offering some thoughts on what that might be.
-
That's got me kind of baffled. That ~1-1/2" long aluminum tube gets very hot fast.
Don't dare hang unto it. Can't leave it on for more than 5 seconds - don't want to bake
the insulation on the wire.
How much flux do we need? Maybe the more flux the less touchy the frequency.
Maybe my rig is just way off. The assembly settles in on 230Khz resonance.
It's looking like I'mma gonna rig my Don Smith assembly up for some magnetolysis.
Take care.
nap
-
That ~1-1/2" long aluminum tube gets very hot fast.
Eddy currents, perhaps?
-
How strong an electromagnetic field does it take to create that kind of eddy flow?
Heck if I know. I will show some measurements but a 2" single turn wrap around the inductor coil
creates over 100volts peak to peak sine waves connected to my scope probes. Not sure I can trust
the measurements till I get some detail time.
Take care.
nap
-
How strong an electromagnetic field does it take to create that kind of eddy flow?
I suspect very little in that configuration. I'm not sure that metalic pipe can be used.
-
More from Chris,
Alaska Star
to me
show details 4:21 AM (1 hour ago)
In response to those seeking "proof" before trying to replicate it, I suggest this scenario:
Presume that you indeed built and proved it works. You can post plans, step-by-step, part numbers, source suppliers, voltages, amperage, frequency, gauss strength, pictures and videos. However...all this in vain because some arm-chair expert will claim that your video is a hoax, the pictures are cobbled up from the junkyard, and your numbers are bunk, thus making it impossible to work....but keep in mind that this comes from people that have not built, nor ever plan to build anything.
Now, that being said: what about my Hydrogen DVD? You know...the one with my car running on hydrogen...yeah. The one that I paid an average of $6.95 apiece to make copies of, and mail with tracking numbers to literally thousands of people...and never got reimbursed for a single disc. Should I repeat the same process? I stopped making those DVD discs, and I stopped replying to emails requesting that disc because I found a world full of liars who are self serving and want everything in life handed to them for free without ever doing anything for it.
Such a process, as simple as it was, by dumping galvanized nails into battery acid, produces so much hydrogen in quantities sufficient to run a 1.6L 4 stroke gas engine in but a few moments of production time was able to run a full automobile for several minutes.
How impossible it was, that after it was all revealed, in all it's simplicity, that it was proven beyond all shadow of a doubt...the thread died. People stopped trying, their minds went back to sleep, time to change the channel. If one were wise...they would look and find that recyclers do not accept galvanized steel, and there are no plants out there that specialize in de-galvanization of steel. Maybe it's a 2-fold business opportunity that can take care of battery acid, galvanized steel, and make fertilizer and hydrogen fuel for pennies on the dollar compared to gasoline. Non-electrolysis, cleans up 2 waste streams, and makes clean fuel and wonderful pure fertilizer. Too bad people can't think that far ahead. I would jump at the chance to set up a full scale plant like that. I would tell 1/2 the planet to kiss my ass for the opportunity to build a plant for doing that. Alas...the lack of funds takes hold and I continue to work.
Now, even if I produce a DVD, with me standing in a room devoid of everything except a rolling table, the devices needed, and a power cord, showing magnetolysis complete and all, and even rolling the table around to PROVE that there's no hose coming in from the floor... it would still be considered a hoax.
Now keep this in mind because if you read pages 13 through 15, you will see exactly that.
I am not refusing to join membership there, but I haven't closed my mind or anything about helping you guys out. Maybe...just maybe...it might be worth my time to literally build a functional unit and send ONE, just one, not 200 or 5,000 of them, but ONE/ UNO/ UNI/ ICHI (whatever language you prefer) unit for review to a respected member who is a no-bullshit 'authority' which means that they aren't armchair experts whom never built anything beyond bullshit. This member can validate, beyond a shadow of a doubt, answer questions, get pictures from every conceivable angle, even video from inside the unit if needed to prove to these armchair experts that it can be done, and that it's not as complex as they would like it to be.
Now I haven't offered to do what I just mentioned, I was just putting an idea out there. Keep in mind that I am quite busy with other work, which might be considered "skunk-works" type work, and I live on 6 hours of sleep with no caffeine.
So consider that when you see posts asking for proof beyond the shadow of all doubt. If they want proof, I can start going through my books, and giving ISBN Numbers with exacting page and paragraph for where to look for the proof beyond all doubt. This is all 100 year old textbook stuff.
Most of everything I have built or done can be found in early 19th century textbooks.
I am a history fanatic, and have a fascination in the realm of historical science, because the ideas they had were limited by the knowledge and understanding of technology and chemistry and tooling to make it happen.
We have everything now that they didn't have 100 years ago, so the chance to make their dreams a reality is now. My dreams also parallel their dreams.
So if you look at all my projects, all the stuff I am doing... and reference back to the right book, 90 to 110 years ago, you will find that it's nothing new, and we have now the benefit of technology to take it from the lab to practicum.
Chris
---------------------
Chris,
I can imagine your frustration with your fellow man [US]
I "KNOW" a lot of the members here are genuine, sincere men
trying to make a difference,[and working VERY hard]
We NEVER get to pick all the "PLAYERS"
You have a lot of great ideas and a gifted mind!
Lets give this a 'Roll"
Where gonna stumble along anyway!
Chet
PS,
If I were to offer a member I thought Impeccable[there are many, MANY] But, wattsup or giantkiller come to mind.
PPS
Also,
If you help us ,
We will carry you around on our shoulders ,chanting praises to your name!
Through rose petals under your feet [almost every step]
And have lovely Damsels ,and a few virgins [getting harder to find those].
sing you lullaby's every evening.
That is our "Deluxe" package!
Of course we can negotiate?
Chet
-
Chris ran an engine on hydrogen derived from what appears to be conventional chemistry. Impressive, but not world changing.
Chris talks about a mechanism for generating hydrogen from non-conventional means that does appear to be world changing...yet...he himself hasn't done anything with it since then and cannot show a video of the process working.
Chris seems a bit wounded that folks challenge his reasoning or want to discuss the science behind it, but time and resources are not free, and although some are just skeptics, some of us are simply concerned about being good stewards of time and money.
In fairness, Chris, there is a great deal of crap on these forums and most of us have developed a BS detector over time. While you seem sincere, the lack of any evidence whatsoever does tend to trip the BS detector. No offense intended. I represent a business interest that would dearly love to pursue something like this, but would only do so given some degree of evidence in support.
I can easily build a case as to why this might work. Actually I can build several possible cases. That said, the lack of evidence in support and the presence of some evidence to the contrary, comes far short of the level that I would want before committing engineering resources to a project like this. But trust me, I wanna believe...
-
LtBolo
Quote:
. I represent a business interest that would dearly love to pursue something like this, but would only do so given some degree of evidence in support.
--------------------------------
No offense Bud,
It would be my intent that this info will be Open sourced!
be prepared to get your hands dirty,
or just sit back and "CHILL".
You can make a sales pitch later!!
The words "Business interests" make me ITCHY!!
To much of that "I can make a buck from this mentality" is why we don't have anything
available to the peeps yet!
100 yrs is enough!
Chet
-
Ordered a new function/signal generator off ebay. Should be here in another week or 2
I plan on taking about 5 plastic bobbins I have here, wrapping them with various gauges of magnet wire, sealing the bottom of the air core and putting some solution in all, then pulsing them simultaneously to get a wide range of configurations going at the same time. I figure I'd dial the frequency slowly and make observations until I get SOMETHING to happen and take note of all reactions. The siggen is .2Hz to 20MHz, +-20v. I'll go through all the ranges with all the wave forms and see what I get. If that doesn't produce anything I'll look into getting frequency multipliers in there to go beyond 20MHz
If anyone can post a circuit diagram to help me out with this I would be very greatful
I do have an idea what it would look like, but I do tend to make mistakes with these things
-
@ramset
I am so sick and tired of people on this and other forums that do this self righteous 'business is bad' bull$hit. The reason that nothing has been done on this is because an experimenter in his garage has precisely zero chance of making anything useful out of this. In order for the public at large to benefit it will take design, testing, agency approval, manufacturing, marketing, sales, etc. Do you have the resources to do that? If so, you are likely a business. If not, then you have no hope of helping the broadest group of people.
It is a complete mystery to me how people can say they want society changed while simultaneously attacking the people that have the best chance of making it happen.
I have made no sales pitch...although your boy Chris has sold boards to folks. Last time I checked, when somebody sells somebody else something in exchange for money...that's what we call a 'business'.
I don't want your money...I have plenty...and Lord knows I don't need this crap to make more. My point in mentioning that I was a business interest was simply to say that I have the engineering and financial resources to invest...and a willingness to do so...when somebody has given me any reason to believe that there is good reason.
-
LtBolo
Quote:
@ramset
I am so sick and tired of people on this and other forums that do this self righteous 'business is bad' bull$hit. The reason that nothing has been done on this is because an experimenter in his garage has precisely zero chance of making anything useful out of this. In order for the public at large to benefit it will take design, testing, agency approval, manufacturing, marketing, sales, etc. Do you have the resources to do that? If so, you are likely a business. If not, then you have no hope of helping the broadest group of people.
It is a complete mystery to me how people can say they want society changed while simultaneously attacking the people that have the best chance of making it happen.
I have made no sales pitch...although your boy Chris has sold boards to folks. Last time I checked, when somebody sells somebody else something in exchange for money...that's what we call a 'business'.
I don't want your money...I have plenty...and Lord knows I don't need this crap to make more. My point in mentioning that I was a business interest was simply to say that I have the engineering and financial resources to invest...and a willingness to do so...when somebody has given me any reason to believe that there is good reason.
----------------------------------------------
Its not in the best interests of this thread to poke and jab!
Sorry Bud![that's an apology on my part]
Chet
PS
The design as presented ,can change this world
one garage at a time!
This doesn't appear to need Procter and Gamble to do research.
Never underestimate
MOM and POP!!
Too many walmarts not enough Mom and Pop!!
-
Please know that my intentions are honorable. I do get the slightest bit frustrated with the prevailing attitude about business. Business is neither good nor evil...it is a tool. People are good or evil, and their business practice is an expression of who they are.
I appreciate your positive attitude about incremental change. It is romantic, but nevertheless naive. Real change will only occur when you can buy a free energy generator at Walmart for $100. It doesn't take P&G to do that, but it does take resources. My company designs and manufactures electronics that are sold all over the world. We have the resources and experience to take a concept to product, and a product to market. We also have the desire.
I just need to see bubbles formed in an ionic solution, excited by a magnetic field, produced by a reasonable amount of power...
-
Here's what I just cobbled together in TinyCAD
I know there's many things wrong with it, but not sure what
The symbols for the SigGen and Ground are different since I couldn't find anything more adequate in the toolbox provided
The "Load?" part I wasn't sure if that should be there, or what should be there exactly, so I just threw in a neon symbol
The values for the solenoids I haven't planned out properly yet and are subject to change based on feedback
So, the question is, am I doing complete nonsense here? Or do I have the general idea but got things all wrong on the circuit layout?
-
Something given has no value.
Anything worth having or doing never comes easily or quickly.
StihlWoody
-
I went over and read AlaskaStar's thread. As per it being a business, I read (it's out there, so I don't need to cut/paste) that basically he had a corporation set up to do the mass production of hydrogen, and faced 2 challenges that destroyed the opportunity: The business partner went psycho with greed, and nobody would believe it works, thus could not get the funding or the backing to make it happen beyond a pilot plant.
Thus it died. If the business failed to take off from internal poison, and external circumstances, I can see where a dream that was worked quite hard to get, failing, would cause severe burns for Chris. Wouldn't you?
After reading the crap at OUPOWER.COM and sifting through the bullshit with a nice filter, I can see his motivation is actually quite selfless. He WANTS this stuff to come out so that the world can change IF the world WANTS to actively participate in changing. I see he's wrapped up in ArcticTek.com which means he's giving it another try in business. Everyone has to make a living folks. Just like you, he has to heat and eat, shit-shower & shave. You gotta have money to buy food, lights and fuel. To get money you gotta work.
So he lives on 6 hours of sleep? Geez! Either he's got more energy than 90% of people...or he's motivated beyond any rational or 'normal' person. No caffeine? WTF? Now I know he's crazy!
So maybe he works a day job...and then goes to the work-shed and works on the technology until some ungodly hour in the morning? If so... then what is he working on? What is he building now? "Skunk-works"? I smell a gag order. If he's tied into Silicon Valley, and he's got a gag order on him, then he's working on something huge. Just what?
So after reading his response to Chet, it's apparent that he read the contents of this thread, and was quite disappointed that it turned the same as the other forums. If that's the case, maybe he's not a proud owner of a bullshit detector, and if this is the case, then it's safer for him to shy back. It also looks like he's trying to say for us to stuff it, because he's tired of the forums full of (I like this...) "armchair experts" who would decry hoax and have done absolutely nothing to prove nor disprove.
If the DVD showed exactly what's going on for one process, repeatable science, nothing hidden, and 5 years later (could be wrong on the timeline) Silicon Valley snatched him up because he's onto something big, then maybe...just maybe...it could be that it's not a hoax, it's not bunk science.
He charged money for the circuit boards. Ok. Fine. What did it cost him to make? Printing the boards? proofing the boards? Assembly time, solder, electricity, each component, shipping, etc..?
So he's supposed to set up shop and crank out components and circuits and mail them to everyone for free?
Sounds really stupid to me.
I find it quite reasonable for him to charge money for a circuit board that he invested time and money into manufacturing. Don't you?
If you don't, then obviously you are an "armchair expert" and a "mooch on society".
How unreasonable is he being?
He posted his phone number, his mailing address, and his e-mail address out there for everyone. He builds first and makes claims later.
You know what would be interesting?
I think it would be interesting to not see what he's doing, but to rummage through the pile of FAILED PROTOTYPES that he must have laying about.
Seriously, anyone here that has ever got off their ass and built something and it didn't work, has a place for the failed prototypes. Either to be recycled, or scavenged for parts.
If that's the case, then I want access to his bone pile of prototypes.
StihlWoody
-
Check out what this guy is doing;
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/avebury/50/dan1.htm
This is essentially the same thing, except that the coils are in the
center of the chamber. All six rod coils are connected in series.
In addition to supplying a magnetic field pulse the coils also
provide a high voltage (flyback) pulse. I'm not quite sure how
the DC bias is supplied via metal electrodes. But he indicates
that DC current is required in addition to the mag. pulse.
The circuit amplifies the square wave from the NE555 up to the
level where it can drive the series coils. The 2n2222/Zener part
is equivalent to a 78L09 +9 volt regulator for the NE555.
This thing should have rf shielding outside the acrylic case which
it currently doesn't have. I'll bet this thing supplies part of it's
own power when it comes up...Nasty.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
@StihlWoody
Are you addressing me with these comments? I hope not.
I see no one here mooching. I'm just looking for one tiny shred of evidence that this ever worked. Again, if everyone on this forum set out to replicate every purported technology without even the most basic due diligence, they wouldn't get anything useful done.
I personally don't buy the 'nobody would believe it works, thus could not get the funding or the backing to make it happen beyond a pilot plant.' It is dang near impossible to get successful folk to part with money without something demonstrable. They didn't become successful by being gullible or stupid. Neither did they become successful by passing on good opportunities.
I see bubbles...I'm all over this...
-
Two Questions:
At Reply #191, In the picture of a unit that was used/built by Alaskastar himself, what is the coil around the lower inlet fitting ?
Has anyone seen or tested this ?
http://www.springerlink.com/content/y7941574h27kv665/
Abstract A novel method of hydrogen generation by water electrolysis using ultra-short-pulse power supply is demonstrated. The ultra-short power supply consists of a static induction thyristor (SIThy) and a specific circuit which is called the inductive energy storage (IES) circuit. It was found that by using an ultra-short pulse with the width of 300 ns, electrolysis takes place with a mechanism dominated by electron transfer, which is different from the conventional diffusion limiting process in DC electrolysis.
-
Ltbolo:
Since the previous post was not specifically directed at anyone, but was a mere observation and musing...and since you directed a question to me specifically, I will address you now.
I did some homework on AlaskaStar, and he lives in Wasilla, a small town along the railroad tracks. Pictures at street level show that almost everything is built on on side of the tracks, and there's nothing on the other side. Basically it's a very long town, not big, just long.
In looking further, I found he went to Palmer High School. I researched Palmer. I found that the City of Palmer is a farming community, very large and sprawled out, farms of several hundred acres, explaining the size of Palmer. Both places have a very low population.
I looked at the largest town in Alaska, and it's Anchorage, Population about 100K people. Anchorage is the largest city on the planet in terms of acres that it's municipality consumes, which also includes a whole mountain range.
He lives outside of town, and probably by choice. He likely chose to go to school in a smaller town than he lived, which says a lot about his outlook in life, keeping things simple.
Now the vast expanses in which he has to romp/play with less than 1 human per square mile allows freedom of thought and any other thing he chooses.
Now, if in a population that low, in a town that small, and the largest city in the entire state being smaller than most cities in America, if he could not find a person who would believe in him, and see the idea and the possibilities for that which it is, then yes, I can believe that he couldn't find any backers.
Maybe that small town didn't have the right person, and he was unable or uncomfortable in leaving home (quite a large place I might add...) and going to a more densely populated area to find a person who could and would help. Maybe he didn't even know where to start looking?
So after all that, you would still choose to focus on that it may be bunk.
Ok. Fine. your opinion like many others before...
So I looked into ArcticTek. I found several news articles, and I find that he's strongly connected to Silicon Valley, but lives in Alaska. Is there something at home that he finds worth more than the world? A child? A wife? Family? Are his values lesser than yours? Maybe he's living as he should be living, a life that you and I can only dream about?
How did he manage to be the VP/CTO of a company in Palo Alto, and never leave Alaska?
His battery circuit took 1st place in the 2009 Arcticinno.com thingy. He came home with a $10K check.
Where do you specifically call out credibility?
At what level does he amount to credible in your definitions?
Did he live to serve you?
I may be a newbie here, but I am calling it out as I see it, plain as day.
So what?
I looked into what I can find regarding his magnetolysis cell. I looked at Kanzius, and I looked at the parallels in the design, I looked at how the magnetic fields work. Honestly, I think it will work.
I am willing to try. I already posted pictures of what I built so far. I have been working, so when I get a chance I can do some testing.
I spent about $50 in parts so far and am ready for testing when I have a free moment.
I don't know about you, but the simplicity of this is incredibly genius.
$50 is not a lot of money, and the design is so open to variables that you have the ultimate freedom to make changes as you see fit.
Now you can sit there and become an 'armchair expert' or you can go build, and have credibility to actually say with definitive proof that it does or does not work.
What's the worst case...you learn something?
Let's cut the crap, get busy and stay focused on the replication. If theres any success, then you will know. If it works as good as claimed, then we will be ushering in a new era of energy, simple enough to build it at home.
Is a new era of energy and society worth the $50 and a few hours spent to replicate? I sure hope so.
And for the business aspect? Let's focus on that AFTER we have successful replication, ok?
StihlWoody
-
Here's what I just cobbled together in TinyCAD
I know there's many things wrong with it, but not sure what
The symbols for the SigGen and Ground are different since I couldn't find anything more adequate in the toolbox provided
The "Load?" part I wasn't sure if that should be there, or what should be there exactly, so I just threw in a neon symbol
The values for the solenoids I haven't planned out properly yet and are subject to change based on feedback
So, the question is, am I doing complete nonsense here? Or do I have the general idea but got things all wrong on the circuit layout?
@niofox,
My recomendations for changes to your schematic;
I looked up your transistor it is bipolar NPN with a b=beta amplification
between 25 and 75 times. (It's NPN power transistor with intermediate gain)
a) Loose the load symbol, replace it with a wire.
b) The battery needs to be reversed as a NPN transistor collector is (+).
c) now interchange the battery symbol and the inductor.
d) now all batteries (-) are grounded and you can supply the +12volts
all from the same source if you want.
d) signal generators signals usually go (+)peak to (-)peak ac voltage
you want yours to stop at or go slightly below 0V Gnd. for Ne555 this is
ok because the signal goes from 0V to +5V. but a lab signal generator
is going to require a series capacitor (for DC blocking) then a diode
to keep the signal from going very far below ground. This will boost the top
of the signal up in voltage. A 1uf cap and a 1n4148 diode will work,
it will still work with an NE555.
e) you should measue the resistance of the 800 turn coil with an
DVM ohmeter then multiply that resistance by beta of 25 so that
it takes 25 times less power to drive the base then it takes to
drive the coil. Then multiply that resitance times 12/5 (or 12/10)
which is the ratio of collector voltage to base drive voltage. Put the
resistor of that value or near it in series with each base. That will
take unecceassry load off the signal generator and provide only
the signal required to drive the load.
Because of the low beta of these transistors, significant signal
drive capability will be required in the Signal Generator. This may be
better handled by one additional buffer transistor feeding the other
three bases.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
I personally don't buy the 'nobody would believe it works, thus could not get the funding or the backing to make it happen beyond a pilot plant.' It is dang near impossible to get successful folk to part with money without something demonstrable. They didn't become successful by being gullible or stupid. Neither did they become successful by passing on good opportunities.
Did you see the DVD?
I guess that's more than sufficient proof, and yet...where is it?
Probably sitting in the corner, collecting dust in Alaska.
I guess reality is a hard commodity to come by, more valuable than platinum eh?
StihlWoody
-
Wow,
Chris returned my phone call!
This fella is going places!!
Good places!!
He's ridiculously busy with his new ventures,which should keep him occupied for several more life times!
Haven't looked yet but Arctictek.com is the address .
He did this Boys [magnetrolysis]!
I believe him to be a bit of a "Savant" when it comes to these things!,
" Gifted"
This most recent endeavor is his baby,
I believe he won't be able to resist getting involved to some degree when we start posting our experiments.
I plan on making bubbles!
Chris your one cool Dude!
Chet
PS
I believe it would be a VERY good idea to experiment with this!!
Hi frequency
Big Gauss
PPS
Stihl woody,
Hows your bubble bath going?
Any "SUDS" yet??
-
Did you see the DVD?
I guess that's more than sufficient proof, and yet...where is it?
Does the DVD demonstrate magnetolysis? If so, I'd love to see it.
-
Ltbolo wrote:
Does the DVD demonstrate magnetolysis? If so, I'd love to see it.
Obviously I can see where AlaskaStar got a bit frustrated...
Since you didn't bother to read the 1st time, I will copy and paste it for you, by quoting AlaskaStar:
Now, that being said: what about my Hydrogen DVD? You know...the one with my car running on hydrogen...yeah. The one that I paid an average of $6.95 apiece to make copies of, and mail with tracking numbers to literally thousands of people...and never got reimbursed for a single disc. Should I repeat the same process? I stopped making those DVD discs, and I stopped replying to emails requesting that disc because I found a world full of liars who are self serving and want everything in life handed to them for free without ever doing anything for it.
Such a process, as simple as it was, by dumping galvanized nails into battery acid, produces so much hydrogen in quantities sufficient to run a 1.6L 4 stroke gas engine in but a few moments of production time was able to run a full automobile for several minutes.
How impossible it was, that after it was all revealed, in all it's simplicity, that it was proven beyond all shadow of a doubt...the thread died. People stopped trying, their minds went back to sleep, time to change the channel. If one were wise...they would look and find that recyclers do not accept galvanized steel, and there are no plants out there that specialize in de-galvanization of steel. Maybe it's a 2-fold business opportunity
that can take care of battery acid, galvanized steel, and make fertilizer and hydrogen fuel for pennies on the dollar compared to gasoline. Non-electrolysis, cleans up 2 waste streams, and makes clean fuel and wonderful pure fertilizer. Too bad people can't think that far ahead. I would jump at the chance to set up a full scale plant like that. I would tell 1/2 the planet to kiss my ass for the opportunity to build a plant for doing that. Alas...the lack of funds takes hold and I continue to work.
So, quite obviously NO. It does NOT show the magnetolysis process, it shows a different process.
I think I am going to observe that it is people who don't take time to read, would rather make noise who cause the BS that occurred over at OUPOWER.COM.
In my humble opinion, Chet asks AlaskaStar to come join this group. He reads this, and sees shit like this, I am willing to drop a $1 bet that he won't join unless we clean up our act.
We all have the same goal: to make the world a better place.
Why would you take it upon yourself to be a disturbance to this process?
It makes you no better than the oil companies.
I have a suggestion, which might get me kicked off this forum:
Shove your keyboard up your ass, walk out to the shop, get busy like some people have and prove it for yourself.
You don't want to spend the money or the time trying?
Too bad. Have a big cup of shut-the-fuck-up then and sit back and watch other people possibly succeed.
Your attitude sucks, plain and simple. I can already see tears flowing because someone didn't hand you something that you so want. Sorry fella, but we don't have it, and that's why we are here discussing it- so that we can have it, however many tries or variations it takes to get it.
StihlWoody
-
Wow. Gee. Thanks.
Yes I read it, sir, and yes I was aware that it didn't show magnetolysis. Since you presented it as proof of technology that somebody should be pursuing, I was simply allowing the possibility that I had missed something meaningful. Nails and acid isn't exactly newsworthy.
I applaud Chris' efforts and I wish him well.
Since folks would rather attack me than have rational discussions, I will leave. Good day and good riddance.
-
Two Questions:
At Reply #191, In the picture of a unit that was used/built by Alaskastar himself, what is the coil around the lower inlet fitting ?
Airbag
Funny enough I asked Alskastar the very same question at the time.
That lower few windings means nothing and is merely a few windings to keep the main coil in place so that it does not unwind. Remember its just one coil.
By the way:
The reason why I personally terminated my experiments in 2008 is not because I questioned Chris' credibility. Initially I was just as excited about the concept hoping that it was 'The Solution', but after working a lot with this really nasty saturated NaOH/KOH concentration, I started asking myself how viable this solution would be in practice.
Even if one get this to work, and eventually get an engine running on it, what happens if the vehicle is in an accident? Could one safely with 100% certainty prevent this solution from spilling? What is the legal implications if the solution spills and anyone gets hurt? This is really vicious stuff....
The saturated NaOH/KOH is >100 x stronger than the concentration typically used in 6 series cell hydrogen boosters and people are already complaining about a typical weak NaOH/KOH solution saying its "not ideal/dangerous".
(Note that I have built several 6 series cell boosters and I am not scared of using NaOH/KOH, but there is a BIG difference between using a few teaspoons of NaOH/KOH in a liter of water compared to a saturated solution!! And anyone that think I am exaggerating clearly has not worked enough with it yet...)
Not trying to be negative, just being realistic and sharing with you the reason why I personlly did not continue experimenting after my initial tests.
If anyone of you can make it work, I would be just as excited, (at least you should be able to use it in stationery installations) but still the implications of the saturated NaOH/KOH solution is in my opinion the BIGGEST real-time implementation obstacle.
-
Fellas,
A lot of good points and observations from "ALL"
The biggest one
DO IT!!, Try it , SHARE what you try .
I will .
And yes its Nasty
The list of "Nasty" in our every day lives Starts with the kids dirty diaper passes Fiddo's flea collar and goes up and off the nasty scale, flying right past your coffee cup in the Microwave and God knows what else!
Be safe with the "NASTY"!
It makes the "MAGIC" happen!
Chet
PS
Stihl Woody
Any bubles in your "bath"?
-
OK,
Getting the "NASTY" containment vessel ready!
The lab assistant [smoosh] is being awfully quiet!
I don't plan on putting to many "limits" on what Smoosh and I will try in the "Nasty containment vessel"[NCV]
Have some Honey doo things going on till Sunday!
Then I will start !
Chet
-
@mscoffman
Huge thanks for the help, I'm still in the process of self-taught electronics and appreciate that you would take the time out for a newbie like me ;D
So here's what I've done:
a) Check
b) Check
c) Check
d) Check
d) Made the modification as best as I understood this point
e) This requires a bit more time, so I'll tackle this one after work
"Because of the low beta of these transistors, significant signal
drive capability will be required in the Signal Generator. This may be
better handled by one additional buffer transistor feeding the other
three bases."
Would it be better to do this or just find a more suitable transistor spec to replace the MJL21194?
Thanks again!
Edit:
Forgot to change the solenoid values, but just pretend they are different values each
-
@mscoffman
Huge thanks for the help, I'm still in the process of self-taught electronics and appreciate that you would take the time out for a newbie like me ;D
So here's what I've done:
a) Check
b) Check
c) Check
d) Check
d) Made the modification as best as I understood this point
e) This requires a bit more time, so I'll tackle this one after work
"Because of the low beta of these transistors, significant signal
drive capability will be required in the Signal Generator. This may be
better handled by one additional buffer transistor feeding the other
three bases."
Would it be better to do this or just find a more suitable transistor spec to replace the MJL21194?
Thanks again!
Edit:
Forgot to change the solenoid values, but just pretend they are different values each
@niofox;
Better;
- Except;
A) Remove "S" shaped wires to ground. Just have grounds hanging from transistor
emitters.
B) Move battery vertically down to the bottom of page
with ground symbol still attached, stage #3 is still wired wrong -
(still is like it was before)
c) Diode needs to be moved from horizontal to vertical. Diode pointed up
with ground at lower end. The diode gates ground onto the signal
if the ground becomes (+) relative to the signal (-) - while that DC is blocked
from signal generator by the capacitor.
d) Should still have series base resistors in each transistor base circuit to
keep excessive energy out of base - a bare base connection will look almost
like a short circuit to the signal generator - Res. value can't calculated until
coil's DC resistance is measured though.
---
Bipolar Power transistors all have relatively low beta gains. It's not their fault -
it's a design trade off by their designers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darlington_pair
If you use the above link make the first transistor an NPN 2n3904.
A medium power small signal transistor. You may need heat sinks
on the (3) power transistors if they start to get more than a little
warm. You also may want "freewheeling" diodes across the inductors
backwards from the drive direction to throw away back EMF so the
transistors won't see the large negative spikes. More sophisticated
circuits make use of this back EMF. Especially if the cell starts
to do energy "talk back" to the driver.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
@niofox
Please start your modifications using this one:
Jesus
-
nievesoliveras
Thank you for looking in!
Chet
-
I didnt see a injector even the best gas the best jet fuel the best nitro all get turned to vapor with a mist first why would anyone think hydrogen is different im not a eletricle enegeer but take dr stifflers designs inject the h20 first to vapor add carbon to bond the oxygen charge wireless with frequency find the frequency from our stereo so we can put the frequency converter in our intake manifold and then blow it up then recycle the water and do it again.
-
Tush,
You have to be careful with some of those "Vapors"!
Just say No!
-
Gentle men,[and StihlWoody :}]
I offer the blast chamber [and my services]
To any Ideas you might have ,but do not have a safe place to experiment.
I will of course share all.
In the venue recommended by Oswaldonfire,I will be starting with existing devices for driving the soup.
Ballasts, Inductive lamps, cfl's etc.
AC ,DC [Bats to welders]
I will keep temperature,specific gravity records on all tests.
Open to suggestions?
Chet
-
Ok, here's how I'm going so far
With regards to the buffer transistor, would I still need the resistors? And what feeds the collector?
If I'm on the same page, then I can have 1 NPN to bias the other 3. My best assumption is that the collector would be fed straight from + battery
-
@niofox
I dont understand what you are trying to do.
But if you have a circuit for a single coil electrolisis that works, post it.
I will build one that has the three coils you want working from it.
Jesus
-
Ordered a new function/signal generator off ebay. Should be here in another week or 2
I plan on taking about 5 plastic bobbins I have here, wrapping them with various gauges of magnet wire, sealing the bottom of the air core and putting some solution in all, then pulsing them simultaneously to get a wide range of configurations going at the same time. I figure I'd dial the frequency slowly and make observations until I get SOMETHING to happen and take note of all reactions. The siggen is .2Hz to 20MHz, +-20v. I'll go through all the ranges with all the wave forms and see what I get. If that doesn't produce anything I'll look into getting frequency multipliers in there to go beyond 20MHz
If anyone can post a circuit diagram to help me out with this I would be very greatful
I do have an idea what it would look like, but I do tend to make mistakes with these things
This is what I intend
-
Has anyone posted any LPM measurements of the output of magnetosis?
Or a pulsing circuit that has been "known" to work?
I'm just curious as I haven't seen any "hard numbers" out of this thread yet for either the initial discovery, or a replication attempt.
I think this could be a great discovery if it can be replicated, but I would greatly appreciate it if either oswald or alaska could post some definite output numbers as to their successful initial experiments as that's usually the reason people do experimentation in the first place.
It's just be a bit easier if there was a baseline set via the initial experimentation by those who have reported this as a significant advance in hydrolysis.
Until some hard numbers come out of this, I think I'll watch and wait to see if anyone can post something exciting in the amount of output that a replication (or the original) is capable of.
-
Ok, here's how I'm going so far
With regards to the buffer transistor, would I still need the resistors? And what feeds the collector?
If I'm on the same page, then I can have 1 NPN to bias the other 3. My best assumption is that the collector would be fed straight from + battery
@niofox;
Things are looking great in the schematic!
Except:
A) you need to move the back-emf diodes from being in series
with the inductors to being in parallel with the inductors. Keep
the end that is connected to the diode where it is and
swing the diodes down to connect to the other side of the coil.
Wire will be where the diodes are now.
What these do is if the coil back emf drives the transistor side higher
more (+) then the battery is, the diodes absorbs this power to let
the coil get ready to do the next pulse.
B) I'd try the base drive the way it is...If it doesn't work because it loads
the signal generator down too much I'd get the 2N6284 transistor
darlington pair that wikipedia suggested and replace the MPS
transistor with those...they require much less base drive even though
the MPS is faster. Have it so the transistors are easy to replace.
the 2N6284 won't require a buffer transistor. Having three different
wire gauges coil doesn't make a whole lot of sense from a magnetic
standpoint. A little bit from the EMF standpoint. And connecting all coils
maybe even in series to one transistor is a possibility. I just stuck
with your initial intention. You should try the puzzle through the hand
drawn schematic for that Stanley Meyer type cell I gave above
in this thread to see what they are doing. He's putting back-emf to
work, I think.
If you where to build it, a quick run thorough with an oscilloscope probe
would make sure you are not (a) loading down anything too much and
(b) the signals are not distorted. Then adjust the component values
accordingly. When one design something, one can do all the math carefully
vs. probe the resulting circuit to see what going on. It possible to do a lot
with a DVM only, but it would take more time.
:S:MarkCoffman
-
...
By the way:
The reason why I personally terminated my experiments in 2008 is not because I questioned Chris' credibility. Initially I was just as excited about the concept hoping that it was 'The Solution', but after working a lot with this really nasty saturated NaOH/KOH concentration, I started asking myself how viable this solution would be in practice.
Even if one get this to work, and eventually get an engine running on it, what happens if the vehicle is in an accident? Could one safely with 100% certainty prevent this solution from spilling? What is the legal implications if the solution spills and anyone gets hurt? This is really vicious stuff....
The saturated NaOH/KOH is >100 x stronger than the concentration typically used in 6 series cell hydrogen boosters and people are already complaining about a typical weak NaOH/KOH solution saying its "not ideal/dangerous".
(Note that I have built several 6 series cell boosters and I am not scared of using NaOH/KOH, but there is a BIG difference between using a few teaspoons of NaOH/KOH in a liter of water compared to a saturated solution!! And anyone that think I am exaggerating clearly has not worked enough with it yet...)
Not trying to be negative, just being realistic and sharing with you the reason why I personlly did not continue experimenting after my initial tests.
If anyone of you can make it work, I would be just as excited, (at least you should be able to use it in stationery installations) but still the implications of the saturated NaOH/KOH solution is in my opinion the BIGGEST real-time implementation obstacle.
@passion1;
This is why I think one should not consider the idea for use
in a product before one knows how to produce the result.
Once one proves that one is producing HHO with oxygen
and hydrogen in a (stoch.) balance and how many HHO output
liters per watt that is all that should be required of this experiment.
76watts per 1 liter of HHO at standard temp and 1 atmospheric
pressure is the breakeven point. 12volts@6amp can produce
1 liter HHO per minute. 1 liter input water can produce
like 1500 liters of hydrogen. Compare that with the specs
that were given... That is what we are up against. We need
more than Faraday efficiency.
First of all Sulfuric Acid is pretty nasty stuff too and
we seem to get along with it ok.
Second if we wait a little longer for the cell to come up
we may be able to have the cell produce the H+, OH- ions
itself, like Stanley Meyer suggested. Even though we
may need some other metals ions too.
At some power level, at some frequency and
with some antenna design almost certainly
magnetolytics is possible. It would then just
be a matter of tuning and adjustment of
the electrolyte.
Also If your experiment produces only hydrogen and
no oxygen it means you have just dumped nails into acid
(actually, aluminum cans into HCl) and are getting a
chemical reaction that absorbs oxygen and binds it to
the metal in the electrolyte to produce the extra energy...
that is no good. We need the real thing. :)
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Jesus
Quote
If you have a circuit for a single coil?
-----------------------------------------------
First let me thank you for your presence here
You are a selfless open source engineer ,that works tirelessly for this cause!
I will try to find out if this circuit can be modified/used with one coil or a different configuration is suggested.
Exx another selfless experimenter/open source engineer,
A good crowd of men showing up here!
Workers,builders,experimenters.
This is starting to feel real good fellows!!
great stuff!
Perhaps this time will be different Chris?
Chet
PS
5 watts 5 minutes 1 gallon of water into gas
-
@mscoffman
Ok, I think I got a bit too far ahead of myself
I believe that I understand a lot of what you've taught me here so far and I will be pondering on it all as I go, but I'm thinking maybe I need to starting off a bit simpler with a 1 coil design
Since you mentioned re-using back EMF it so happens that my best experience with that is Bedini's stuff
I have all the duplicate components from my Bedini rigs and I figured I could re-use them here
This is essentially where the idea for running multiple test setups in the same circuit came in
I just decided to start from scratch in my previous posts for some reason
I will try to work in multiple later when I have more bench experience with the SigGen addition to the whole thing
I will definitely look up the suggestions you made. It'll still be a week yet before the SigGen arrives, so I've got plenty time.
Meanwhile does this look like a successful setup?
-
Darlington Power Amplifier
http://www.nteinc.com/specs/200to299/pdf/nte251.pdf
500ma Base Current
vs
http://www.nteinc.com/specs/2600to2699/pdf/nte2670_71.pdf
5A Base Current
Is that what I'm comparing?
They only sell NTE locally
Hopefully they have these in stock
-
I was drawing your idea and the energy went out on my area this afternoon.
If your idea is like this, it is very difficult for it to work, because the electrolitic must be in contact with the negative and positive poles in order to produce electrolisis and water molecules separating as hydrogen and oxygen.
Jesus
PS
There is one circuit by dr @stiffler that produces hydrogen with a diode.
-
From the circuit you posted. This is a possibility.
Using just one transistor.
-
What @mscoffman is telling you is to do this:
Jesus
-
I was drawing your idea and the energy went out on my area this afternoon.
If your idea is like this, it is very difficult for it to work, because the electrolitic must be in contact with the negative and positive poles in order to produce electrolisis and water molecules separating as hydrogen and oxygen.
Jesus
PS
There is one circuit by dr @stiffler that produces hydrogen with a diode.
Yes that is what I had in my head
I thought that was essentially what the proposed experiment was about
When you say "In contact with" the poles ... do you mean the solution needs to extend beyond the top and bottom of the coil? Like if I reverted to putting a pvc pipe thru the middle of the bobbins and fill that instead?
Great circuit illustrations by the way
Much thanks for this
-
@passion1;
This is why I think one should not consider the idea for use
in a product before one knows how to produce the result.
.........
At some power level, at some frequency and
with some antenna design almost certainly
magnetolytics is possible. It would then just
be a matter of tuning and adjustment of
the electrolyte.
Also If your experiment produces only hydrogen and
no oxygen it means you have just dumped nails into acid
(actually, aluminum cans into HCl) and are getting a
chemical reaction that absorbs oxygen and binds it to
the metal in the electrolyte to produce the extra energy...
that is no good. We need the real thing. :)
:S:MarkSCoffman
mscoffman
Yes, for the process to be useful/viable in practice, we need to MAINTAIN and be able to CONTROL the reaction on demand.
In other words, we need to be able to start/stop the reaction as we like and we need to be able to recreate/run the process reliably & uninterrupted for prolonged periods of time, at required levels of hydrogen production.
-
Jesus
Quote
If you have a circuit for a single coil?
-----------------------------------------------
First let me thank you for your presence here
You are a selfless open source engineer ,that works tirelessly for this cause!
I will try to find out if this circuit can be modified/used with one coil or a different configuration is suggested.
Exx another selfless experimenter/open source engineer,
A good crowd of men showing up here!
Workers,builders,experimenters.
This is starting to feel real good fellows!!
great stuff!
Perhaps this time will be different Chris?
Chet
PS
5 watts 5 minutes 1 gallon of water into gas
I beg your pardon. I did not see this one.
Thanks for inviting me to the thread.
Jesus
-
Yes that is what I had in my head
I thought that was essentially what the proposed experiment was about
When you say "In contact with" the poles ... do you mean the solution needs to extend beyond the top and bottom of the coil? Like if I reverted to putting a pvc pipe thru the middle of the bobbins and fill that instead?
Great circuit illustrations by the way
Much thanks for this
Usually the hydrolisys is done like the photo shows.
But maybe your original idea can work, you never know.
I dont think that inmersing the coil in electrolite is a good idea, because the electrolite will corrode the material.
Also for the electrons to travel through the water two separated poles are needed.
May be with your idea and the magnetic field created by the coil, the hydrolysis proccess begin. You never know.
Dont give up your dream. Keep experimenting.
Jesus
-
Stihl Woody
Sorry to hear you can't continue [moving is rough]
You should look up Chris when your in Alaska ,he seemed to appreciate you and your efforts.
I will test your rig and post here [Emailing my address to you]
Sorry to here you won't be by the "net"
Make the rest of your life,
The best of your life,
Jesus,
I Emailed your schematic to Alaska star, he said it was good.
All
I believe enough info has been presented here to replicate
And he knows it!
Yes It needs some "Fussing
Again Chris's response to my query,
Alaska Star
to me
show details Aug 4 (4 days ago)
I have been reading this thread since ------- started it.
You guys are on the right track.
There's so many variables that you can modify from the size of the coil, the length of the coil, the strength of the coil, the dilution of the liquid, the frequency of operation, whether the field drops below zero line, if the coil has a ferric housing around the winding, ferric ringing, the type of material to make the coil (maybe copper coated steel wire dipped in the enamel to make magnet wire?) and anything else you can think of.
That particular technology for me was to just do it, see if it worked, post that it worked and move on to something else. It was originally nothing more than a satisfaction of my curiosity.
Chris
-------------
He is working very hard on a motor that does things no one has been able to do,
He is a great fellow and lives a very humble life [by choice]
I don't think he is into "The Little Red Hen" Syndrome.
I believe He shared this once
Nobody really seemed to pick it up and run with it!
Plus it could be that this is something that is in the back of his mind to develop down the road?
But he has Offered to send a running unit to a trusted member here for Open source analysis.
He would have to find time in his 18/7 schedule to do this?
I personally feel without some published efforts ,that would be pathetic [to request that on our part]
We want this, we better show some effort!
High frequency ,Big Gauss, Strong Salt solution
-
Usually the hydrolisys is done like the photo shows.
But maybe your original idea can work, you never know.
I dont think that inmersing the coil in electrolite is a good idea, because the electrolite will corrode the material.
Also for the electrons to travel through the water two separated poles are needed.
May be with your idea and the magnetic field created by the coil, the hydrolysis proccess begin. You never know.
Dont give up your dream. Keep experimenting.
Jesus
Well I was making sure the solution never touches the wire by using something like glue to seal the small holes where it feeds through the middle of the bobbin
Although it sounds like you are thinking of a more conventional process the more I think about it
-
Jesus
I forgot to post this [your circuit]
I asked Chris Hunter,[the fellow who did this] to verify your circuit!
He said quote:
"THAT SCHEMATIC WILL WORK" [and that's all he said]
Chet
PS
Mark C,says 1500 liters of gas in one liter of water!
1 US gallon 3.8 liters
1500 x 3.8=5700
5 watts , 5 minutes, 5700 liters of gas!
So what do they say? the average ICE [internal combustion engine]
100 lpm[liters per minute] to run at highway speeds?
That goes way off the Holy s%@t scale!
gonna be a blast!! [i wish]
PPS
Chris,
Chasing 12,000 hits here, from all over the planet [and you ain't even here[yet]
You guys wanna change the world?
you have a very good start!
and I will guarantee this is gonna get better!
-
Maybe something good comes out of all our efforts.
Jesus
-
Darlington Power Amplifier
http://www.nteinc.com/specs/200to299/pdf/nte251.pdf
500ma Base Current
vs
http://www.nteinc.com/specs/2600to2699/pdf/nte2670_71.pdf
5A Base Current
Is that what I'm comparing?
They only sell NTE locally
Hopefully they have these in stock
This is correct. The signal generator might be able to produce
a few 100milliamps, but is unlikely to produce amps. They
expect you will use an amp and you will not want to blow up
components on a short or something.
That transistor is quoted a gain of x25 (audio power) @400V
while the darlington has a gain of between x750 and x18000 @100V
(quite a range actually depending on conditions.)
and nievesoliveras's previous schematic is correct though the
one transistor circuit looks identical. Maybe C1 could be
bigger - it depends on frequency and how much energy
the SG can push through it. Charging an extra battery while
making HHO sound a bit like overkill.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
SOOooo....................
Not yet [haven't fired up the soup]
Soon!
Inspiration [why you should be playing with this]
5 watts = 17 btu per hour [almost 100 % efficiency electricity]
Chris Hunter discovered,
5 watts utilyzing magnetrolysis =
17,500 btu's per hour.
HHhhmmm..........................
Chet
-
Charging an extra battery while making HHO sound a bit like overkill
Although it would be a very nice use of back EMF it might actually do harm to batteries at such high frequencies. I have never tested charging at anything over 500Hz or so
-
NioFox
Quote:
I have never tested charging at anything over 500Hz or so
------------------------
How many Hertz you building for?
ThanX
Chet
PS
I'm still preparing,making some copper plated steel wire [magnet wire], covered with an enamal
[one of Chris Hunter's reccomendations]
NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED!!
-
How many Hertz you building for?
ThanX
Chet
PS
I'm still preparing,making some copper plated steel wire [magnet wire], covered with an enamal
[one of Chris Hunter's reccomendations]
NO STONE LEFT UNTURNED!!
Well according to what I've read I at least need to be in the Khz range, and the lowest number I've seen is 250khz as stated by oswaldonfire in his early postings (if I recall correctly)
The Signal Generator I order goes up to 20MHz, so does my oscilloscope
I figured I'd play around in between these ranges first and see if I could get any kind of action in the electrolyte
So if I haven't completely mis-understood how a siggen works, I should have a dial I can turn slowly to increase frequency, taking notes on any reactions that occur in the solution
-
As most of you understand, the incorporation of EM fields into an electrolyte is nothing
revolutionary. Conventional science have implemented this in various experiments where other
results were demanded for.
The secret behind this success reported by Oswald does most likely not lie in the normal
range of EM induced electrolytes.
That I am almost definitely certain about.
Just a nice load of Gauss pulsed into a nice saturated soup of NAOH will probably not do it.
Oswald and his intriguing affiliates has come across a certain threshold point in an area
unknown to conventional science, and probably unknown to themselves for that matter.
The phenomenon may be related to acoustic cavitation or frequency resonances hitting nodes
in the Planck scale.
I myself believe this threshold point is reached through the means of tuning into the harmonics of
the very standing waves that matter is made up of, thus an atomic or nuclear level event,
maybe affecting the valence electron exchanges.
Probably even common electrolysis is a much greater mystery than explained by common science.
So please do not give up, just because of the fact that pulsing EM into NAOH as told by
Chris is giving you negative results.
I will myself go into an area of experiments incorporating interaction between two pulsed
EM fields, and test some of the information below, displayed on the net by an unknown author.
Quote from unknown author:
There are two primary frequencies that produce the best results. They are: 14372 Hz and 43430 Hz.
The former is about 50% more efficient, but it seems that just about any frequency between 9 KHz and 143762 KHz works quite well.
1) This is because the nature of the wave form ( a spike ) is rich in harmonics and one of them is bound to be close to one of the two primary frequencies.
Use of permanent magnets may also increase efficiency.
Note: Sub-harmonics of the two primary frequencies at which dissociation will occur:
43430 Hz 143762 HZ
SUBHARMONIC SUBHABMONIC
1st 21715 HZ 1st 71881 HZ
2nd 14476.67 HZ 2nd 47920.67 HZ
3rd 15517.5 HZ 3rd 35840.1 HZ
4th 8686 Hz 4th 28752.4 HZ
*1500 VOLTS IS THE MINIMUM REQUIRED FOR MOLECULAR RINGING TO BEGIN.
end of quote.
Good luck to all of you in this inspiring quest.
-
So does anyone have a great idea for getting 1500v out of my 12v battery?
-
Can you post a link to the original article on the 1500 volt electrolysis
-
Gwandau
I keep thinking of Chris Hunter"s claim!
"This is a lot less complicated than you think"
We shall see?
Chet
-
niofox and gsmsslsb,
Looking a little deeper into different Internet sources regarding the quote I posted about frequency subharmonics,
I found that this material is all about pulsing electric currents in an electrolyte in a somewhat similar way
of Stan Meyers concept. Due to the limited material I found initially, I thought it was referring to pulsed EM fields,
which it proved not to be.
Sorry for this apparently misleading material.
But there may still be harmonic resonance effects involved in Oswalds concept,
so this is a road I will continue in any case, maybe just because nobody else will.
Here is the link I found after your request:
"Molecular Dissociation of Water: A Project for the Experimenter by Dan Danforth"
http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#danforth
Gwandau
-
Gentlemen,
one thing to remember,
Oswaldonfire is going this route,
http://www.inductionlamps.com/screwInSpecs.shtml
He has done this,he understands how to get this effect,
and this is how he is going about replication!
KISS comes to mind!
Ps Oswald, how are your latest efforts going?
Chet
-
Chet,
I really hope you are right and I am wrong, since my road is far more ardous and complicated.
Best wishes,
Gwandau
-
Gwandau
I'm not trying to be criticle in any way,
your insights make perfect sence .
I just believe that the three things presented[3]
Hi frequency
powerful gauss
strong salt solution
bring together a perfect storm senario!
where perhaps cavitation ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC6I8iPiHT8
We can "SEE" cavitation yields Overunity.
Could be all the "STRESS" in this perfect storm
causes...................?
who knows[yet]
We most definately are going to pursue this !
And we will learn and share .
Good to read your posts!
Thank you
Chet
Ps
I'm jealous of your EE friend,[helping you build such appropriate stuff]
but happy you have such good friends.
No stone left unturned!
-
Something I forgot to mention!
We asked these fellows
Chris Hunter and user Oswaldonfire,
Why they dropped this?
When Chris called me he asked me a question,
What do you think would happen If we could continue along
burning oil and could burn all our reserves?
"We'd run out of Oxygen"
Was his reply to my inability to answer.
He feels Burning Oxygen is not the way to go.
The techs he is working on at Arctictek.com
Don't burn our air!
Chet
-
What do you think would happen If we could continue along
burning oil and could burn all our reserves?
"We'd run out of Oxygen"
Was his reply to my inability to answer.
So what did the animals that became these fossil fuels breath prior to dying and becoming said fossil fuel?
-
Gwandau
I'm not trying to be criticle in any way,
your insights make perfect sence .
I just believe that the three things presented[3]
Hi frequency
powerful gauss
strong salt solution
bring together a perfect storm senario!
where perhaps cavitation ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC6I8iPiHT8
We can "SEE" cavitation yields Overunity.
Could be all the "STRESS" in this perfect storm
causes...................?
CF is very complicated. The output to it, seems to align with the
chemical process under which it occurs. If the process is charging
a battery, you get overunity charge. If it is producing heat then it
gets hotter. If you are electrolyzing water you get more HHO.
Also that flash you see from the shrimp claw is not fusion occurring
but only conditions in the bubble becoming hot enough for it to occur
because only the Deuterium isotope of Hydrogen can fuse. So
it takes two D atoms to be positioned correctly for it to occur
which in physics is expressed as a probability. The flash is called
"diagnostic" of fusion. Pistol Shrimp do heat up the water jet when
they do this - and that is where the extra energy is seen.
---
More similar claims Web Link;
Diesel Truck Runs on 100% HHO
http://pesn.com/2010/08/10/9501686_Future_Energy_runs_truck_on_100_Percent_Hydroxy/
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Mark C
Quote:
Pistol Shrimp do heat up the water jet when
they do this - and that is where the extra energy is seen.
-------------------------
True ,
the little midget heats it to 9900C
Hotter than the sun!
Thanks for posting the link on those fellows.[the guys with the 60 psi unit,50 lpm]
Perhaps with what Chris Hunter has developed[magnetrolysis]
We will utilize HHO until the "other" teks become available?
The Arcticteks.com
Chet
PS
Hopefully we'll be posting our own vids soon
OPEN SOURCE!
-
Mornnin Men
[it is here ,and its a beauty]
Meeting with a few EE's this weekend!
Help to focus things a little bit!
Hope you fellows are getting along with your reps.
Chet
-
Mornnin Men
[it is here ,and its a beauty]
Meeting with a few EE's this weekend!
Help to focus things a little bit!
Hope you fellows are getting along with your reps.
Chet
When you say it's here, are you referring to Chris's "cell"?
Assuming you are, can your EE associates take LCR measurements with lab quality equipment?
I would like to see values of all three, inductance, capacitance and resistance for proper reproduction. Not to mention dimensional measurements.
Oh, and lots of pictures!
Thanks,
Mike
-
Mike,
Quote:
I would like to see values of all three, inductance, capacitance and resistance for proper reproduction. Not to mention dimensional measurements
----------------------------
That would be nice!!
I would just like to see "bubbles"!
I was greeting the fellows
and it was in the mornin[where I was}
and it was a beautiful mornin!!
Oh and Mike,
Don't worry ,
when /if we reproduce this
It ain't for sale!!
It will be full Open source disclosure!
EVERY DETAIL!!
SSOOooo.........
you givin this a shot??
Chet
-
Yeah, I'm going to try and replicate.
I followed the original thread at oupower, but my main focus has been figuring out Stan Meyer's way of makin gas.
This appears to be a lot simpler.
Mike
-
Mike,
Welcome aboard Bud!!
Chet
-
Hello everybody,
I apologize for my recent absence... but I am back.
There's way too much to respond to right here; I wouldn't even know where to begin.
How is everyone doing? How are the replications coming?
Oswaldonfire
-
Oswald.
Good to see you back!
No posted progress on any replication attempts
to date!
Perhaps a brief sumary of what you feel needs to happen for the effect to manifest?
[for the new comers[13000 hits on this thread]
Chet
-
Mission statement
We are here to explore/replicate Magnetrolysis!
"Open Source"
PLEASE JOIN US!!
This effect as rediscovered by Chris Hunter [Arctictek.com]
Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]
As witnessed by Oswaldonfire, Chris Hunter And several other replicaters.
We are here to "Open source" this Replication.
and utilize every possible resource at our disposal!
Chet
-
Just came back from the Post Office with my Signal Generator. Tested it on the oscilloscope about 5 minutes ago, everything looks good.
This weekend I'd tried biasing the MJL21194 with the output of a 555 timer with no joy
The wave that came out varied between 9.5v and 10v instead of going 0v to 10v (The battery was really drained)
I also sealed the bottom of the bobbin and tested it with water, everything is in order
So all I have left to do now is buy the transistor and construct the circuit
-
Sounds good, niofox.
A signal generator will be very helpful in your replication.
Please post back with further details and results.
Oswaldonfire
-
Just came back from the Post Office with my Signal Generator. Tested it on the oscilloscope about 5 minutes ago, everything looks good.
This weekend I'd tried biasing the MJL21194 with the output of a 555 timer with no joy
The wave that came out varied between 9.5v and 10v instead of going 0v to 10v (The battery was really drained)
I also sealed the bottom of the bobbin and tested it with water, everything is in order
So all I have left to do now is buy the transistor and construct the circuit
Sounds like you are pulling too much current from the NE555 because the
the base of the transistor is too low of an impedance (resistance) you
are going to need another smaller tansistor (coupled as a darlington) to buffer
the signal before you drive final transistor. Having current sucking the voltage
down at the base of the mjl21194 is not necessarily wrong, except the NE555
is not meant to work that way. (current mode) Use a higher resistor instead
of the coil as a preliminary test load then subsequently load it down with the
coil. That's my recomendations.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
@mscoffman
Sounds good
I couldn't find the darlington pair locally. They were out of stock and were not getting more anytime soon
Would a broken CRT or old computer Power Supply (I have many of these lying around) have any transistors that would be suitable to pair up with the MJL's?
Interesting point to note, I couldn't even get an LED to visibly light with the output from the Signal Generator
It was a green LED I got out of an old CD-ROM drive
I'm wondering if the 500ma would still have been too much for it to handle
-
Well
600 Watts
does 50lpm here
http://pesn.com/2010/08/17/9501689_QA_Frederick_Wells_VP_Future_Energy_Concepts_Inc/
So 5 watts does 1150 lpm
with Chris Hunter's Magnetrolysis!
We will probably run that truck with a watch battery!
Stay busy fellas
Chet
-
A recap from user Goat
-----------------------
Edit: Link to page at http://oupower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2327&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285
"FIRST TEST:
AT A FRIEND'S HOUSE, WE USED 17.1 MHZ POWER TRANSISTORS JUST LIKE
THOSE USED IN TRANSMITTERS TO PERFORM THE TEST. WE COULD NOT GET
ENOUGH WATER INTO THE DAMNED COILS FAST ENOUGH. I DO NOT HAVE AN
FCC LICENSE TO PURCHASE THE AFOREMENTIONED EQUIPMENT, HE TURNED
INTO AN ASS, AND WE HAVEN'T SPOKEN IN QUITE A WHILE SINCE.
SECOND TEST:
USED A 555 TIMER PWM, AND SEVERAL COIL DESIGNS, AND DISCOVERED IT HAS
LITTLE TO DO WITH FREQUENCY, AND MORE TO DO WITH THE GAUSS
STRENGTH."
It would be nice if Chris had documented his experiments with the right combination that was successful. We do have a lot of information but which of the variables work well you got me on that one
Chris also mentioned 3 different methods he had tried which I"m still looking for but it was basically what he mentioned above.
Regards,
Paul
-
Okay, here's another way not to do this. They said big magnetic field so I used fifty turns of welding cable with 235 amps passing through it, surrounding a beaker full of saturated sodium hydroxide. I could detect no difference with the power on or off in the fluid. It did magnetize all the metal particles on the floor surrounding the cables and the coil. About 18000 watts of power and no bubbles.
Garry
-
Okay, here's another way not to do this. They said big magnetic field so I used fifty turns of welding cable with 235 amps passing through it, surrounding a beaker full of saturated sodium hydroxide. I could detect no difference with the power on or off in the fluid. It did magnetize all the metal particles on the floor surrounding the cables and the coil. About 18000 watts of power and no bubbles.
Garry
What frequency? Or is it DC?
-
ac 60 hz
-
So we are on page 20 now which means it must be working and making 200 liters of gas a minute on 10 watts?
Answers on a post card please!
-
So we are on page 20 now which means it must be working and making 200 liters of gas a minute on 10 watts?
Answers on a post card please!
Gee Bolt, you seem a bit skeptical. ;)
I really think it might work...but...I never thought it was as simple as suggested.
We've been playing a bit with the Tesla Hairpin lately, and the high voltage capacitive discharge is fascinating. Completely different beastie from a high voltage inductive discharge. I was thinking that Chris Hunter's circuit used a Xenon tube, not sure what the stated purpose was, but that might be working as a spark gap. High freq capacitive spark discharge into a resonant solenoid might be the key. Do it right, it works great...but slightly wrong yields nothing.
-
bolt
Can you offer any guidance?
I know you are a Ham [operator]
And a master of most of the tech that "might" be at work here
Chris Hunter Quote:
"FIRST TEST:
AT A FRIEND'S HOUSE, WE USED 17.1 MHZ POWER TRANSISTORS JUST LIKE
THOSE USED IN TRANSMITTERS TO PERFORM THE TEST. WE COULD NOT GET
ENOUGH WATER INTO THE DAMNED COILS FAST ENOUGH.
--------------
couple that info with this schematic Chris said "will work"
We could use some input bolt,perhaps some good questions?
Chris Does read this thread .
At 30 days [the thread] I don't believe it will drag out very long if the right guys offer some guidance/suggestions!
Chet
-
Even if you never find the "Holy Grail", ( but I'm sure you will ), you guys need to be commended for your efforts. This topic has been interesting in it's presentation, challenging me to try to learn the technologies at work. In my online research, I found something that may or may not be useful. Hope it helps.
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=40649
-
So this has got to be it
One of these small transistors that you can find anywhere should do it yea?
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets/208/489434_DS.pdf
-
Mission statement
We are here to explore/replicate Magnetrolysis!
"Open Source"
PLEASE JOIN US!!
This effect as rediscovered by Chris Hunter [Arctictek.com]
Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]
As witnessed by Oswaldonfire, Chris Hunter And several other replicaters.
We are here to "Open source" this Replication.
and utilize every possible resource at our disposal!
@Stressed 101
;D
Maybe we can turn a page here ?
And get it in gear!
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=40649
Thanks Bud
Chet
PS
bolt
Can you offer any guidance?
This could be the best thing since sliced bread!
-
These seem like very talented and benevolent fellows,
the type that an Open source project like this could use.
I'm going to invite them here!
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=40649
nothing changes if "nothing changes"
Chet
Ps
Hopefully we can ask them to look at the two circuits in the last few posts,
The one Chris Hunter said will work[multi coil design?]
And the one niofox and Mark Coffman have been putting together[one coil?],
give them a rough idea [very] of what we are trying to do, and start a standardized build to work on this together with a parts list etc.............
-
I will post once I have invited them,hopefully today.
I've been working on a project for children with Autism
and it has to take priority !
We are chasing 15,000 hits here [in a little over 30 days].
hopefully a nice bunch of replicaters in the mix.
Perhaps a few "Not so nice" replicaters
Thats Fine!
This is not "my" thread!
It belongs to "all"!
Opensource !!
Chet
-
Chris Hunter,
I asked a few questions of Farrah,and a really cool fellow showed up,
Bob Potchen , aka the cell
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5809-closed-loop-electrolyser-3.html
Testing your concept right now!
Take a look
Chet
-
Chris Hunter,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgXVMTpPmbw
You should call him ,
his # is on the screen!
Vetting Magnetrolysis [W]
@ltbolo
I see bubbles!!
Open source !!
-
A reply from Bob Potchen
I'm the type of person that likes to meet people face to face,....and, just happen to know Palmer and surrounding area quite well....you see, I own a house up there. So, after my UK trip, I have scheduled a trip to AK,...and will hopefully get a chance to meet in person Chris hunter. If he has an interest, and a working system, we can bring to market this invention in weeks, not years....in the meantime....I can put out the feelers to some of my good friends up there to "go have a beer with him" (on me of course), to let him know that I am a Down to Earth kind of guy, and not the internet "injector"
So, stay tuned....and I will let you know.
Thanks, Cheers,
Bob Potchen
-
Vetting Magnetrolysis [W]
@ltbolo
I see bubbles!!
I'd love it to be true ramset...but I don't think his demonstration was magnetrolysis...given that there apparently were 2 metal plates and clean water. It sounded like the magnet shifted some kind of operating point and the system went from dissipating no power to about 10W, with an expected increase in gas output.
I do think that the move toward resonant solenoids is interesting. We have been playing with similar coils in our lab for the last month or so. Fun toys.
Don't know much about Mr. Potchen other than that he and Bob Boyce had quite a public spat, and Bob Boyce seemed pretty convinced that Bob Potchen was trying to kill him. Not that I think that Bob Boyce is completely sane, but I would take that under advisement were I going into business with him. (Chris...)
-
Super Bob's [the Cell] first attempt,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3civVBRbAI
And Chris Hunters work
http://www.powershow.com/view/d1bbe-MDk3M/MAGNETIC_HYDROGEN_PRODUCTION_THROUGH_INDIRECT_ELECTROLYSIS_USING_MAGNETIC_INDUCTION
Chet
More here,
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5809-closed-loop-electrolyser-3.html
-
Sorry Chris,
Didn't check my mail till recently[5 min]
To the anonymous man!
You say you brouse the forums
If you read this, Thank you for believing in Chris Hunter
enough to run 100's of experiments.
And sorry for sharing this,
But I will always share ,this is Open source!
Chetkremens@gmail.com
Ps
Would love to learn more about your system!
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Reply |Alaska Star to me
show details 9:37 PM (23 hours ago)
fromAlaska Star <alaskastar2000@hotmail.com>
toChet Kremens <chetkremens@gmail.com>
dateSun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:37 PM
subjectFW: Electrolysis accelerator
mailed-byhotmail.com
hide details 9:37 PM (23 hours ago)
I know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I have blanked his name, and his email.
You have been seeking independent validation of various theories that I came up with, and successful replication. The person I have been conversing with will probably see this and shoot me, but he, like me, would rather stay out of the public forums and the stew-pot of feces that is found there.
Like I stated from the beginning, this is, has been, and always will be far simpler than you can imagine. You have always the option of making it super complicated.
Now I was asked a question regarding his build and his design with a stumbling block, and I answered his problem, which has relevance to what you are working on, for that is the only reason I am sharing it with you. Keep in mind that my non-participation in the forum and his non-participation in the forum is not something that says that I am hiding anything. This guy has the brains enough to figure it out, for all it's simplicity, and use it.
How hard can it be?
So, I am sharing this with you in confidence that it would not be twisted around, but the knowledge gained and applied, proven, can be used to teach others, so that they my indeed understand such simple concepts.
Chris
From: ***************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Electrolysis accelerator
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0400
Hi again Chris,
Hope your project has moved a few more steps forward since last time. Stay with it.
Since your reply, I took your suggestions and was able solve my electrical issue. It enabled me to be able to finally test
for much longer periods of time. That allowed me to take things even further. Thanks Chris ..you got me out of a rut.
Those stator magnets were very strong, and the effect dramatic as I said before, but it led me to conclude
that I needed something with an even greater magnetic capability.
Since then, I was able to pick up a powerhouse industrial electromagnet, that at 12 volts has a lifting strength of 889 lbs ( nearly half a ton ! )
and is designed to operate at either 12DC, 24 DC or 120 AC, with lukewarm heat at best at full power. With a variac I'm able to run it
anywhere from 10 AC to 140 AC without a problem. Weighs a whopping 7 lbs. Cost me $60 and has a magnetic field that extends nicely.
At 12 volts DC it sticks to metal like its welded, and a simple PWM takes care of the regulation.
If you're looking for one or two for any reason, let me know ..I have a great supplier.
The accelerating effect on electrolysis is monstrous using this magnet. I'm purposefully using mason jars for testing, so that I can
visually see what's going on, but the pull is so strong that I'm continually breaking jars. I should be able to overcome that pretty simply
with a different plate assembly configuration.
Thanks again Chris. When I'm done I'll upgrade my internet service so that I can send you a video clip (for your eyes only).
..............................
Incidentally..While doing some lurking I see that you are being invited to join a discussion forum. For your sake, I hope you don't take the bait.
It will only lead you to frustration and argument and a huge waste of your time dealing with people who's only goal is to be King of the Castle.
Just by reading what's in those forums, you can see that there's nothing new to learn from people who are still just talking in the same circles.
You've been there before and have been around long enough to know that most people only want something for nothing.
Take the bait..and you'll lose another year.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alaska Star
To: *****************@*************.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Hey! Yes I have my voice back, and I have been quite busy. Building an electric car from scratch by designing the motor, the battery management, speed controller, etc all from scratch.
Ok, to keep the stator coils from frying up, you need to observe Kirschoff's Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics. These are so important that you will soon learn the most valuable lesson in circuit design.
I will start with a simple circuit because keeping it simple is important.
We have a power source (can be AC or DC) and we have a Coil. Now this coil is nothing more than a length of wire, and this length of wire can be 1 inch long or it can be 1 mile long, it doesn't matter. What would happen if I put a 10 inch length of wire across the terminals of a car battery? Gets quite hot quite quickly! Now, let's put a heat device in series with this wire, like a light bulb.
So we insert a light bulb which is 90% heat and 10% light in series with your coil. Now the coil becomes passive and is a conductor and an inductor, and we observe the laws of thermodynamics. How? For every hot side there's a cold side. Equal and opposite reaction. So if the cold side of the circuit is desired to be the coils, then we need something to get hot so the coils stay cold. The energy has to go someplace.
Now if we put a large ballast resistor in series with your coil (I prefer the tube type carbon pile ballast resistors because I can run a cooling pipe through it to a radiator to cool it down) then it will allow enough current to flow to generate the magnetic field you need without messing with the frequency. If you use a light bulb, you will be restricted by the amount of current that can flow through the tungsten element. A large resistor is designed to carry current but convert energy to heat in a specific location, which would be wherever you want that heat to be located.
Now if you want to go a step further....put your 2 plates in series with the coil, where the power flows THROUGH the water to get to the coil, and the resistance of the water will keep the coil cold, but it will self regulate from the gaseous resistive barrier that builds on the plates from the hydrogen and oxygen.
I hope this helps, and please if you could, let me know how it works for you, test results, etc.
Chris Hunter
ArcticTek.com
From: *******************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:14 -0400
Hey Chris
You probably don't remember me 'cause I only send you an email maybe once a year.
The first time was before you got sick...the last time was when you were getting your voice back.
Hopefully that's all behind you now, and you're back in some friggin' zone again.
If you remember, I'm not a member of any forum...just a lurker and a browser once in a while.
I'm stuck on something that maybe you can help me get around the stump. I've run hundreds of tests on this
and is the only area of electrolysis that I'm focused on. ..The effect of magnetism on the electrolysis process.
For the past year I've been playing with accelerating the electrolysis process using a couple of fair sized stator coils
(7.5 amp and 8.4 amp) with great success using straight 120 AC. ( No effect with DC). One has 4 coils and the other has two.
Both very powerful electromagnets. I've run them as conventional electromagnets as well as connecting the windings to have
the same magnetic pole facing in. Simple 2-plate martensitic ss electrodes are just fine as a cell for testing.
The acceleration process is monstrous running this way. You probably already know that a 15 to 20 times increase in the rate
would not be exaggerating. (I'd gladly send you a vid clip but my cable provider has me capped, so I cant do that )
As you probably know, you cant run a stator coil that way for much longer than 10 seconds or the windings will fry
with the conductive load, so I protect the windings with a 7.5 amp variac . The problem with that is the increase in acceleration
is very minimal running this way, and I can only run it at 7.5 amps at around 30 volts AC..
Anything you can think of anything (electrical or otherwise) that can add to this set up try to get around this?
Even if you don't have an answer for that ..any thoughts on a slightly different approach I might try with this?
Hope you're doing well.
-
Hi everyone.
I have been reading all about this since Oswald first presented it. I also read everything on the energetic forum. It seems that Farrah is completely convinced that Oswaldonfire and this Magnetolysis concept are pure garbage. Furthermore, she goes on to tell off on Chet that he is being too trusting.
I believe that Oswald, Alaskastar, and the Magnetolysis concept are credible, and that we are simply not looking in the right area yet.
I cannot explain why Oswald has suddenly disappeared from this forum and everywhere else. Perhaps he wants to let us figure things out by ourselves for a while? Who knows. I will try to PM him and see if I can get a response.
meanwhile.... I have some ideas on how to develop this magnetolysis.
since the NaOH solution was a problem for many people from the start, maybe we don't absolutely need it. ( I also have my doubts about a single atom being a successful electrode, it seems to me that we would need more than one atom together to be an electrode. I dunno).
What if, instead of single Sodium atoms, we used a nickel powder? I am thinking to use nickel because the nickel will not oxidize in the water. if we keep a suspension of nickel powder (maybe a little air bubbler or something to keep it moving, then shouldnt we be able to induce current in the particles in the same way as the Na atoms? i dont see anything wrong with it.
And it seems to me that the major thing is the electronics. I mean, the largest variable in the designs seems to be the electronics. get the input right, and it works. get it wrong, and nothing; hence discouragement.
What if:
before we even start worrying about our solutions and electrolytes and all that crazy stuff, we just concentrate on getting our coil and driver circuitry all correct. We can test it by establishing some sort of test of induced current. I'm thinking that if we place a single wire in the middle of the coil, then we can measure the current coming through that and tweak our stuff to get the max current out of that wire. Then once that is set, we put our solution in place of the wire and we should see results. Sounds good, eh?
Thoughts?
-
Hydro dude
welcome to the forum,I like the positive vibes ,
feelin a little beat up right now!
For a woman that Farrah sure can throw a punch!
I believe we have enough info to give this a serious go!
I also don't want to distract Chris from his lifes work.
I'll be quiet Now [a bit excited and confused]
Chet
Ps
Ltbolo
could you share a bit more?
-
Ltbolo
could you share a bit more?
I honestly don't know anything else, and if I did, I really wouldn't want to drag anybody though the mud. I spoke with Bob Boyce on the phone once and within 5 minutes the discussion turned to his encounter with bigfoot...seriously. As such, I take everything he says with a certain arms length skepticism. It is my understanding that Bob and Bob were in business together...Bob B was consulting on The Cell's design...then stuff went to crap. Google "Bob Boyce Potchen" and you can find wonderful details.
Do I think it is true? Doubtful, but I've met neither face to face. I like to look a man in the eye before I make an effort to judge his character.
I saw Bob Potchen's test of magnetolysis. It failed...but...he appeared to use pulsed DC...which isn't going to work for magnetic induction. If it works, it will almost certainly require AC.
-
Ltbolo
Quote:
If it works, it will almost certainly require AC.
---------------------
Thats the kind of "light" I'm talkin about,
and anonymous above seems to agree!
Your playing with solenoid coils?
Well hopefully someone here can study a bit the info presented to date and offer a course of action!
I thought Super Bob might be such a person ?
perhaps he's not into open source?
From anonymous's posts above, this needs to move forward.
AND I CAN GUARANTEE YOU IT WILL!!
With the help of this community!
Chet
-
Oswaldonfire is in HIGH SCHOOL. Anyone look at the calendar lately?
Anyone care to remember how much time you did and didn't have in school?
Ok.
That mystery is solved.
Who's Next?
StihlWoody
-
SW
Just seeing you post here again brings a big smile to my face!
Thanks Bud
Chet
-
Mission statement
We are here to explore/replicate Magnetrolysis!
"Open Source"
PLEASE JOIN US!!
This effect as rediscovered by Chris Hunter [Arctictek.com]
Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]
As witnessed by Oswaldonfire, Chris Hunter And several other replicaters.
We are here to "Open source" this Replication.
and utilize every possible resource at our disposal!
AND WE WILL SUCCEED!!
JOIN US!
----------------------------------------------------------
I like this Guy!!
He definately has an opinion!
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5809-closed-loop-electrolyser-4.html#post109103
iquant
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5
Proof of concept at this stage is to induce the NaOH separation / Na H20 reaction. Lets focus on the magnetic induction piece of this puzzle and see if bubbles can be replicated. Maybe use common commercially available products for consistent replications.
Induction Lighting
"Induction lamps require a correctly matched electronic ballast for proper operation. The ballast takes the incoming mains AC voltage [or DC voltage in the case of 12V and 24V ballasts] and rectifies it to DC. Solid state circuitry then converts this DC current to a very high frequency which is between 2.65 and 13.6 MHz depending on lamp design."
Do we not have a DC problem?
What frequency? 2.65, 13.56 or 250Khz
Internal self ballasted or External-coil Induction Lamps?
How about using an Induction Hot Plate?
Litz wire is used to reduce the skin effect and proximity effect losses coils.
$59 Hot Platehttp://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-Electric-Induction-Cooker/8224072
"In each of the electronics modules, the 240V, 60Hz domestic line power was converted to between 20V and 200V of continuously variable DC by a phase-controlled rectifier. That DC power was in turn converted to 27 kHz AC by two arrays of six paralleled Motorola automotive-ignition transistors in a half-bridge configuration driving a series-resonaYou may already have an induction heater in your house.
ie a glass topped stove/cooker.
Now all u need is a beaker or a glass saucepan, or a plastic cup or a drinking glass, or a paper cup etc.. Non conductive vessel!
Half fill with with sodium hydroxide solution and turn on full.
Nothing happens.
Add a stainless teaspoon to the mix and try again.
Vickers
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#109 (permalink) Yesterday, 10:35 PM
iquant
Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6
Any ideas on disabling the Safety circuits?
7-Point Safety System
Beyond a flameless & cool to the touch cooking surface, Fagor’s built-in induction cooktops are also equipped with the following important safety features:
* Overflow Safety: Stops the cooktop if food is spilled over the touch controls
* Cookware Detection: The cooktop will switch off automatically if no cookware is placed on it within one minute
* Small Utensil Safety: Surface will not activate unless the pan placed on the cooktop is at least 5" in diameter
* Anti-Overheating: Disables temperature at 575 F
* In case of improper electrical connection, the cooktop is automatically protected
nt LC oscillator, of which the inductor component was the induction-heating coil and its load, the cooking pan."
--------------------------------------------------
Iquant
Nothing like a man who takes a Bull by the Horns!
Thank you Brother!
Chet
-
Let me tell you about Alaska...
FROST HEAVES!! THEM ROADS ARE NUTS!!!
And Chris/Alaska is a modern DUKES OF HAZZARD DRIVER!!! He see's the speed limit as 'suggestive' and lives out of town in a 'Double Fine Safety Corridor' because people can't seem to figure out how to drive without crashing. Well, he doesn't get into wrecks, but I bet he's the cause of them!! DAMN HE DRIVES FAST!!!
Ever been airborne in a CAR????
So he may be an idiot behind the wheel, and Wasilla is tiny folks. That town is so damned small that you can literally stand on the hill behind Home Depot and see both CITY LIMITS!!
Ok, so his shop is not huge, but it's filled with all sorts of neato stuff that he's working on. He's got a shelf (ok many shelves...but one in particular) had Jaguar V6 engines stacked neatly on it (curious...will it make a resounding thug in an earthquake??) he has 6 huge tool boxes, all sorts of machining tools, materials to work with and bolt bins everywhere you look all sorts of fasteners that you can't find at the hardware store. One area dedicated to just electronics, one for metal, and the other is pretty deep in shavings from making shit.
That motor he's building....VERY LIGHTWEIGHT!!! the thing can be carried under ONE ARM!! He painted it metallic blue for some reason...
So the other thing he's working on is a thermal engine of some sort, and I admit that I don't fully understand it, but he built home-made heat exchangers that I wish I could bring home with me....and camshafts, and geartrains, and loads of stuff he's tried to make it work. He's pretty good at taking an idea to reality for what he's focused on.
He's got all sorts of cars, trucks, tractors, and stuff around the yard, and regularly drives an old gray Ford tractor (think he said made in 1942) that he restored by himself in 3 days after the radiator blew out. But he drives it to snarl traffic because it's legal and nobody stops him.
So you should see the racks of parts at his disposal guys!! MILES OF EVERY TYPE OF WIRE!! STACKS AND BINS OF NEO MAGNETS!! PIPES FITTINGS, ADHESIVES, PLASTICS, METALS, WOOD, ROLLS OF MATERIAL, RUBBER, FIBER, KEVLAR, COTTON... You name it!
HOLY SHIT! THIS GUY HAS A SHOP!!
He's average height, and recently cut all his long hair off after "an incident" with CPVC Cement involving a shelf and a loose can and his hair...so he's got a buzz cut. His desk is covered with papers, computer parts, tools, parts, hardware, bolts, nuts, wires, drill bits, books, you name it!
He doesn't have a tv...weird...
He's got this bonfire going...and going...and going. He poured 5 gallons of diesel fuel (ok splashed) onto his bonfire to get it going again for the day and my god that sumbitch was HOT!!!
He's appears to be athletic, and spends a lot of time hiking, showed me a spot up "Hatcher's Pass" where the parking is free, the view is phenomenal and you can climb up every peak all day long.
He's got a zillion ideas, most of them I don't understand, like a Hall Thruster used to electrolyze water vapor in a pipe? What the heck is a Hall Thruster?
He's opposed to oil in the worst of ways, and yet lives in an oil state...hmm...
His girl is pretty (WOOHOO!! WOW!!) and she welds, runs torch, fixes cars, operates heavy equipment, can bust a tire in no time, and looks like a beach babe. She's also a florist at a local store called CARRS.
So other than seeing a lot of scenery at 90+ MPH...and touring his shop, I didn't have many intelligible questions for him.
He's 28, and his birthday is the shortest day of the year, so he jokes about party all night. I guess this is about sunlight. At 8:00 PM, the sun is still very high, as in the same as about 3:00 pm in Oregon, which I find quite weird.
He's got people calling him all the time, and people stopping by all the time, he's fluent in deaf language and offers the simplest solutions to people needing repairs. You would not believe how busy this guy is! He's gotta be insane because without coffee I wouldn't make it to breakfast following his shadow! He hates coffee. He doesn't drink, and doesn't smoke. So I know he's nuts.
He's been to Washington, Oregon, California, and Hawaii. He is planning to drive the electric car through Canada someday soon, once it's running.
Hmm...what else?
I didn't ask about the magnetolysis, because I was looking over the other stuff he's doing.
He's got a thing for "world music" which isn't heard here in Oregon on the radio, and in particular he's got a liking for music from Senegal. It sounds like gibberish, only because I don't get the language, but whatever....
So he modifies everything. Nothing stays original at his place. Everything is modified, but it WORKS. His 1942 Ford is modded, and with a 1/4 turn of the hand crank when it's cold, it fires right up. His van is modded out, bigger water pump, transmission modifications (what is a "lube dam"???) and suspension mods.
Guys, at first glace, he's an average joe, but be goes from level to level with people, and to watch him work is impressive unto itself. People keep flowing to him for things to be fixed or worked on, and no business signage at his place, they come, he fixes, they drop cash and he's happy.
Sorry for the long post...but I thought you guys would like some insight.
StihlWoody
-
SW
So the rumers aren't true? That he 's a smarmy ,milktoast geek that lives in an old boot ,and sits around knitting "FLUX Capaciters" out of old toaster wire, while humming the old "Davey Crocket" jingle??
Thanks for the insight!,Sounds like a man that lives life to the fullest!
His energy level sounds Super Human and I love that he doesn't do TV or any other drugs!
Thanks
Chet
PS
SW
What no pics??
Freakin Alaska and no pics? a samon egg? a grizzly? a tree?
How bout a nice Mountain pic?
-
Vickers
They have a thermal cut off switch. Coil gets to hot it cuts off.
All these safety features boil down to a thermal switch.
Fool proof.
U can balance the reaction by adjusting the simmerstat
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cool experiment... but same result. Energy loss.
Vickers
Wanna get real. Go over unity...etc...Look at that big hot shiny thing in the sky. What is its primary fuel source? Why does it not burn out? What is the secret? why does it burn continually? Why is mankind more interested in weird reality TV shows?
Simple answer. Hydrogen will burn hot/react enough with earth metals to create a self sustaining flame/temperature.
Any issues with this? Ask the sun.
-----------------------------------------
Sounds like we are gonna need a strong magnet and some mayonaise jars soon!
Chet
-
Posted at OU power by hydrodude12
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to revive a bit of an old post... but I think I may have come up with the balanced equations that FarrahDay was after.
They are redox reactions, with three steps:
Na plus H+ --> Na+ plus H (H bubbles out of solution as a monatomic gas molecule)
Na+ plus OH- --> Na plus H+ plus O plus e- (O bubbles out of solution)
e- plus Na plus H2O --> Na+ plus OH- plus H+
As for the source of electrons that FarrahDay was talking about, I believe that there is no external source.
Just as in conventional electrolysis where the electrodes are the electron source, and an electron is taken from one electrode simultaneously as another is given to the other electrode, the Na atom serves as the electrode.
This is the SAME EXACT PROCESS, just on a smaller scale and using a different method of energizing the electrodes. Take a 6 inch sqaure electrode, and size it down to one atom in length. It will work exactly the same as the full size one, just at a much much smaller scale. Now take trillions of trillions of trillions of these electrodes, and that is where we get the extraordinary production of Alaska's cell.
As you can see by the second and third equations, an electron is given up and then it is taken right back. The magnetic field simply catalyzes and provides the activation energy for these reactions.
-
Chet,
Try placing a small amount of 50% solution (100ml) in a non conductive container (glass/plastic/beaker)
Cover half the hot plate with a small conductive pan and place your solution container on the other half.
Record Time, pan temp, solution temp and volume.
Start it up on lowest setting:
See if anything gasses out.
Record Time, pan temp, solution temp and solution volume.
Turn it up and repeat.
-
iquant,
just so you know,I didn't highjack Farrahs thread
I asked her a question ,thats all.
Thank you for showing up here,I'll drag the stove top outside [a take out from a demmo job]and hook it up to the mains.
get some batteries for the camera and get busy!
Chet
Oh Oh..............
I just went out to the truck the top was stored in,
looks like I'll be goin to Walmart ,the "boyz" scrapped it last month ,I forgot![things been rough around here]
Is this the right one?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-Electric-Induction-Cooker/8224072
It will be better than draggin that other monster around and wiring it up [sour grapes ,seeing as how its gone ]
-
.
-
University of Wisconsin has got a nice page on the Electrolysis of Aqueous Sodium Hydroxide
wisc.edu Movies & Pics (http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA3/MAIN/ELECSOL/PAGE1.HTM)
-
Another smart man!
ltBolo
----------------
LtBolo
Chris didn't disassemble it...he loaned it to another guy and never got it back. I know the details of why, and why getting it back is now not likely to happen, but am choosing not to say because it really isn't anyone's business.
Chris is not particularly interested in hydrogen production. There are any of a dozen good reasons for that. One major one is that hydrogen embrittlement will destroy an internal combustion engine, so any practical solution will likely require external combustion. That increases the complexity considerably, and as a reasonably poor 28 year old, I seriously doubt he has the resources to tackle the problem.
Contrary to assertions here that there is no chemical answer, it seems that John Kansius' experiments would suggest otherwise. The fact that only a couple have managed to demonstrate the effect doesn't invalidate the fact that pure EM energy can cause water dissociation in an ionic solution. Since that is an established fact, rather than questioning Chris Hunter's statements, you might should be questioning why you were unable to reproduce the effect.
The point I'm trying to make is that there really is more than one question here:
1. Is it possible to dissociate water via magnetism?
2. Does that process deplete the water of its ionic content?
3. Can it be done at an energy discount?
I think Chris would answer yes, no, and yes.
John Kansius proved at the very least yes, unknown, and unknown.
Before I ruled it a failure, I would personally be trying to understand why I couldn't replicate the Kansius experiment with a strong magnetic field, because that should be possible. Only after replicating that much, would I move into evaluation of the last two parts.
There is zero doubt in my mind that if I stuck a piece of copper wire in water, and subjected that wire to a variable magnetic field, there would be a point when that wire would have enough voltage induced in it to start electrolysis. The key would be rate of change of the field. Too slow, you get nothing, but beyond some threshold you would get gas.
If you were to increase the number of wires while decreasing the length of each, it would still work, but I expect you would need to increase the rate of change. You could do that by increasing the field strength at the same frequency, or by increasing the frequency. As before, when you hit the correct threshold it would work.
If that conductor were reduced to something atomic sized, I would expect that the rate of change would need to be extremely high. To do so would likely require both high frequency and high current. That is something that doesn't come naturally, especially for those not skilled in the art. From what I have observed around these forums...the questions asked about drive circuitry...it is obvious to me that most would struggle to build a full H bridge drive that can push current and frequency to the levels that might be required.
Since an atomic sized conductor would probably not produce a coherent magnetic field, I'm not sure that Lenz would apply, or would apply poorly. That has very significant efficiency implications that might affect question #3. Additionally, since a magnetic field does not dissipate power, in the absence or reduction of Lenz, the use of high Q resonant circuits might make it possible to create the magnetic field needed with very little input power.
Once the threshold was hit, I would expect the knee of the reaction to be very sharp, since quite suddenly 10 to the gazzillionth conductors would hit the voltage needed to start dissociation.
While I can't vouch for Chris, I can come up with enough reasons that it might work that I'd cut the guy some slack...
There are obviously questions that need to be answered, so why don't those of us who are interested in a fair evaluation, wander back over to the thread on OU, and return this thread to Farrah's capable hands
-
I have been reading up here...
and here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5809-closed-loop-electrolyser-5.html
and it seems that Chet wants to move forward, LTBOLO is willing to make an attempt, Oswaldonfire simplified it for everyone, Farrah demands numbers yet unable to publish her numbers...
How can we move this forward?
While I was gone, my brother was watching the house, and he sold my unit for the copper to buy dope! DAMN HIM!
Oh well, I can build another unit...
Now, again, without all the political BS, can anyone cut through the crap and just try, show what you built, how you built it, the specs, and the results?
Simple, simple, simple.
Just build, photograph, and post results, the good the bad and the ugly...
Stihl cutting through the crap makes for some stinky saw chippings!
StihlWoody
-
SW
Ok we have
1.Niu Fox
2.gwandau
3.Iflew my own
4.stihlwoody
5.Hydrodude 12
6.iquant
7.vickers
8.the cell
9.Ltbolo
10.farrah??
11Chet
12.passion1
If I'm missing someone??
so far 3 and 8
have reported an attempt # 10 filed no report!
#12 had no success [Yet]
Chet is going to file a report on iquants suggestion tomorrow although it might be simular to #3's
Please If ANYONE has anything to contribute do not hesitate!!
THIS IS AN OPEN SOURCE PROJECT
IT BELONGS TO ALL!!
-
Question regarding coils, but first I will fill in as much information as possible, so that we may find an answer:
2 coils, identical, from wire length, number of wraps, spacing of the wraps, everything identical. I used micrometers to get this as perfect as possible to have 2 exacting and matching coils.
Now one coil will resonate the other (in a tranciever setup) using 1.233 ohms on a 10pico-farad capacitor. The other will only tune in when I change the resistance to 1.276 using a 10pico-farad capacitor.
WHY IS THIS???
Now when relating this to the topic at hand...
Any one of us can build a unit, give exacting dimensions, etc, etc, etc...and it works, so someone builds it and it doesn't work.
Should we be finding not just the resonance of the water, the sodium and such but ALSO OF THE COIL ITSELF?
Just a thought here....
StihlWoody
-
More insight,
LtBolo
From what I noticed from the older threads was that Chris tossed out an idea that he claimed worked for him. Then varying degrees of spatting caused that to degrade into hurt feelings and chaos. Did Chris owe anybody anything then? Does he now?
Please understand, I am anything but Chris' or anybody else' groupie. Quite to contrary, I have a successful business (evil business...this is where everybody jumps down my throat) that I started over 18 years ago. My interest in any of this is a healthy balance between altruism and capitalism. If I see something that makes some sense, I'm interested. Do I care about petty egos and crap like that. Uh, hardly. Didn't get where I am by letting human nonsense get in the way, and the affirmation of random names on a forum full of crazies is not something that I need. My interest is financial well-being while helping human-kind solve some pressing needs.
That said, I personally think there might be something to this when viewed as an extension of John Kansius' experiments. Chris is clearly not university educated and may not have a clue as to the whys and wherefores. That is irrelevant. Sometimes not knowing what's not possible is what makes it possible.
I would also suggest that your value system may or may not be his. I completely agree with what you say...something this important should be pursued. He is a young guy working long hours living paycheck to paycheck in the Alaskan interior. I am a well-off businessman. From a purely Maslow perspective, we must see things differently. I am sure that at other times of my life I would have seen this differently. Even if I did understand the importance (probably wouldn't have) I would likely not have had the resources for it to matter.
Do I believe? No. Can I build a case why it might be true? Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrah Day
Hi LtBolo
There should be some doubt in your mind here. Where would the ions be exchanging charges for a start? This will not work, nothing will happen.
Didn't say anything about ions. I said a length of copper wire. Last time I checked copper wire generated current when subjected to a varying magnetic field. If that fails to work, transformers will cease to work, and I feel pretty good about them continuing to work.
If the wire is long enough and the field changes rapidly enough, the voltage induced at the ends of the wire will be high enough to dissociate water. I assume that process will scale down if I cut the wire in half. Try that again a few billion times. At what point does it cease to work?
That in itself wouldn't be the slightest bit interesting...except...when the conductor becomes so small that a coherent magnetic field cannot be produced, it might...might...confuse Lenz. If so, it might...might...be possible to produce the effect at a considerable energy discount. Given that Kansius demonstrated something dangerously close to what we are describing, I think there is a strong enough case to warrant further investigation.
Until and unless you can recreate Kansius results via magnetic induction, I think the rest of the discussion is somewhat academic. After doing so...and since RF is just EM it should be possible...then reasonable discussions of questions 2 and 3 should be pursued.
-----------------------------------------
-
hi everyone,
i have an idea that i want to implement in regards to electrolosis. i have a question, if the question has already been answered somewhere in this thread/forum, then sorry :)
Is there a guide to make a petrol or gas engine run off brown gas? i gather it would have to be a 4 stroke (as it would be extremely difficult to lubricate a 2 stroke with browns gas).
my idea in a nut shell:
To have a large bank of 5v 1F capacitors (say, 20) that get a plused charge from the alternator attached to the engine. Portable generator is my aim, like in the youtube videos on the main page - the anton hho closed loop setup. My idea is that the output energy from the alterator pulsed into the capacitors (that electrolisis the water) should be less energy than is required to run the generator to begin with, +100% effiency. i could be (and most likly am) wildly wrong but in any case, I want to experiment.
thanks,
pete
-
Is there a guide to make a petrol or gas engine run off brown gas?
There are many discussions of such elsewhere. This definitely is not the thread that you want to post that question.
-
i gather it would have to be a 4 stroke (as it would be extremely difficult to lubricate a 2 stroke with browns gas).
and don't toss out 2 strokes, mercury optimax, evinrude e-tec, nissan tldi and yamaha hpdi are examples of 2 strokes that use 'direct injection'. direct-injected outboards have neither crankcase oil or oil filter. instead, a precisely metered stream of oil lubricates rings and bearings, flashes off in the combustion chamber, then exits along with the exhaust gas. it might just fit your bill... ;)
-
WilbyInebriated
HHMMmm....
An engine in the water ,that runs on water!
with a lot of the "Tech" already in place.
Food for thought !very Impressive!,But first we need to make the "GAS".
Chet
-
A suggestion:
Start a separate thread dedicated to JUST replications. Leave this thread as it is, but any replications go in the other thread.
I will start it if nobody else steps up to the plate.
Do we have a moderator amongst us who can help if any posts need to be moved or deleted in the future?
Oswaldonfire
-
This solution of ground stainless or for that matter any non ferrous matter can be made diamagnetic using the PMH hollowring filled with what you want to magnetize. This ring is open but can be connected to form a "barred" magnet, Ed Leeds.. setup but modified like David Lambrite. AND I also posted a topic in half-baked recently about Magnetic Plate separation (magnetic induction) using this method to separate the water directly into their base atoms. I am glad to find your topic and will be glad to listen and learn.
-
SW
A replication thread would be a good idea!
We absolutely need to get to the place where the "Anonymous Mayonaise jar Man" is![please get us there Chris Hunter:}
We need A base line, a benchmark.
THEN the game is on!
we can invite guys like this
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6270-ultimate-secret-free-energy-split-postive-negative.html
and this guy
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6227-stan-meyers-secret-preventing-electrolysis.html
In a "Doped" solution, their ideas will manifest much faster than pure water!
Probably a good [safer] testbed too.
An open source thread where peeps exchange test results .
My Autism project has to take priority in my life right now,
[still going to experiment as much as possible]
Start one Bud!
Chet
-
and don't toss out 2 strokes, mercury optimax, evinrude e-tec, nissan tldi and yamaha hpdi are examples of 2 strokes that use 'direct injection'. direct-injected outboards have neither crankcase oil or oil filter. instead, a precisely metered stream of oil lubricates rings and bearings, flashes off in the combustion chamber, then exits along with the exhaust gas. it might just fit your bill... ;)
Maybe...If the lubricant is a hydrocarbon, there is going
to be two problems; a) one is of energy balance as the
energy of a combustable fluid is going to have to be counted.
And b) carbon monoxide/dioxide is going to have to be
considered if running it in a closed space. What might work
really well is to substitute a silicone based fluid lubricant
that doesn't combust, The residue of which may have to
be allowed to drain out from the exhaust system.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Post all replications in the new thread dedicated to hardcore progress:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9690.0 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9690.0)
Leave all theoretical conversation where it is in thread.
-
oswaldonfire,
I'd like to replicate your setup with the magnetic induction lamp. Can you provide details / part numbers / results?
-
Any magnetic induction lamp should work, in theory.
Start by taking your lamp and disassembling it. You will need the electronics (ballast & coil). The rest is garbage. Please, dispose of the mercury-containing parts properly, and use proper safety precautions when breaking the glass (if necessary). The amount of mercury contained in the amalgam is too small to be useful for anything, however even very small amounts can be deadly.
It should then be as simple as putting the coil over a container of NaOH and turning it on. The Na atoms should act the same way as the Mercury atoms in the lamp, and gas should be evolved.
The ballast provides a 230kHz AC signal that is perfectly matched to the coil. I don't know specifics, as I don't have the proper test equipment. I was not able to measure a constant voltage, for some reason. I saw voltages varying from 800 to 1400 volts.
My test ended abruptly and with smoke when the MOSFET in the ballast exploded. It was enough for me to switch to another approach.
Now I am looking into resonant tank circuits.. mutual inductance... inductive coupling... now how could that apply to this concept?
-
Oswald
I've asked an amazing Opensource engineer
User Magluvin [Mags] to take a look at this thread.
He's as busy as a one legged man in an ass kickin contest
But said he'd take a look see.
Be ready with your questions on coils, resonance, tank circuits and such!
He's gonna want to see a circuit to get an idea
I can repost the one I ran By Mr. Hunter
[The one from Jesus]
@iquant
I went to walmart and a few other big stores, no inductive
cook tops,
But now I see your lookin at Lamps I'll wait abit for the dust to settle
Feels like Day 1
But a good day!
Chet
-
Chet,
Don't let Farrah get you down. We are all on the right track by trying.
Edison tried EVERY combination available at the time to get the INCANDESCENT bulb to work on DC power. Why was this so important?
Because Tesla had FLUORESCENT and NEON bulbs in operation for quite some time, but the GRID was DC, and it was imperative that AC didn't put Edison out of business and out of a job.
Clearly AC and Fluorescent/ Neon lights still won out in the end...though it took a while.
So compare this to Farrah's attitude, with her being Edison...
The fact that I was reading all 131 posts, and it's of my opine that she's on a perpetual menstrual cycle, menopause or hasn't had enough to drink each day, or too much to drink/smoke each day. If she had tried anything at all, she would have pictures, proof of something, even a failed attempt.
Talking about a failed try and proving that you actually TRIED are 2 totally different things, and as she decried you, Alaska, and Oswald to be liars...
I seem to recall "A person who speaks the loudest against something is hiding their own fears..."
Had a girlfriend accuse me of being a Player. Later...after we broke up, found out she was the player, as I was left confused. Again she cried that I was the culprit, when clearly she was hiding her own fears behind a loud lying accusation.
I see some parallels here, and though it may not mean much of anything to psycho-analyze Farrah...
I do strongly suggest that you quit wasting your time on her. Obvious she's not going to put out in any way thinkable, so just forget her and move on.
You are a bright individual, and though I can see that you hold the fence, not deciding that it's bunk science until absolutely proven beyond the shadow of a doubt, you have an open mind and are provoking people to move forward.
Cheer-leaders keep the spirit up on the team to do their best despite the failures. What other purpose could they really serve?
StihlWoody
-
SW
Thanks Bud,
Its not possible to evaluate this from the perspective of just one science or field of expertise.
An electrical engineer
a chemical engineer
and a physicist
All would argue about what is taking place here,
You see I absolutely believe this is possible,no fence for me,Fellows are doing this without salts and Stifler is doing it in sterile Lab water[not even a conductor].
I believe in the next few days we will be getting started down this road.
And I am quite excited about it,no matter what happens!
As far as Farrah, I sincerely feel bad ,I despise conflict
But In this case I despise her dishonesty more.
Although I still consider her a huge asset to this community!
Where the heck is the "Fox" ?? [niu fox]
Chet
-
Induction Ballasts are also used by High Pressure Sodium Lamps. I'm guessing at the resonance frequency of Sodium amalgam. These lamps have been around since the 1960's... Some nice technical info: HPS Servicing Guide (http://www.americanelectriclighting.com/Library/Literature/PDFs/HPS%20Servicing%20Guide.pdf)
-
Fox is about 18 miles north of Fairbanks. Drove through it...blinked and missed it.
How does one post pictures here?
Farrah, if she would post PROOF of an attempt, even a failed one, would do herself a lot of credibility to the community.
Even a failed attempt is nonetheless an attempt.
From her arguing, I found her email, and I asked her if it ever occurred to her to DIRECTLY contact AlaskaStar and ASK for the missing pieces, if there are any?
I haven't heard a reply yet, so...
Now, if a replication is successful, as per Farrah's argument, WHOM gets the credit? The guy who came up with the idea? Or the one who made it work?
Clearly by the dates of publication on the PowerPoint, and the dates of PATENT... AS clearly had the lead over Kanzius and Norman. So does Kanzius get it? Norman? AS? Someone here?
And is the credit something to fight over?
Maybe the fight should be for the future of all people, eh?
StihlWoody
-
StihlWoody
Quote:
Maybe the fight should be for the future of all people, eh?
------------------Amen Brother----------------
Mission statement
We are here to explore/replicate Magnetolysis!
"Open Source"
PLEASE JOIN US!!
This effect as first rediscovered by Chris Hunter [Arctictek.com]
And then Kanzius and Norman.
Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]
As witnessed by Oswaldonfire, Chris Hunter And several other replicaters.
We are here to "Open source" this Replication.
and utilize every possible resource at our disposal!
AND WE WILL SUCCEED!!
JOIN US!
----------------------------------------------------------
Experiments will be posted here,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9690.msg255334#new
Please No text other than experimants
Ask Questions or whatever at this thread
Sushimoto
Bitte senden Sie ihre Fragen nur Versuche hier zu fragen
Danke
(Sie scheinen ein Problem mit der Verständigung haben)
ΠειÏάματα μόνο Ïωτήστε εÏωτήσεις εδώ
Chet
-
We played with a couple of configurations...about 500 turns of 16 gauge wire on a spindle and a flat solenoid on a small plastic tube, driven with 30v pulsed DC and a full H bridge drive for AC.
Due to the inductance of both configurations, we found it difficult to get very much power into either coil at frequency. It is obvious to me that nearly any coil of a length needed to generate a significant magnetic field is also going to have enough inductance that high frequency drive will be difficult at any real power level. That leaves me pretty skeptical that 17MHz could happen, and even 10s of kHz becomes somewhat challenging.
Contrary to statements made by others, I do not think this is easy. If it works at all...and I am far from convinced...it seems like it will take more than a simple magnetic field. Barring any demonstrations of a system that works, I doubt that we will pursue this further. If somebody comes forward with a working device, and detailed plans to replicate, I would enthusiastically jump back in.
Good luck.
-
Ltbolo
Quote:
It is obvious to me that nearly any coil of a length needed to generate a significant magnetic field is also going to have enough inductance that high frequency drive will be difficult at any real power level. That leaves me pretty skeptical that 17MHz could happen
-------------------------------
Sounds like a problem!!
Some peeps make their livin solving problems like this,
I'm glad you posted this,Its actually the first real info from an attempt in recent times.
I am very appreciative of your sharing!
PS
Perhaps the gauss can be added the way that anonymous Mayonaise jar man is doing it?
Perhaps we will learn more of his technique?
Tell that "FAT LADY "to shut up and sit down!
This Opera is just gettin started!
Chet
-
NioFox
Can you share anything yet?
Just askin.
Chet
-
NioFox
Can you share anything yet?
Just askin.
Chet
Sry life just hit me in the face like a brick
My experiment equipment took a major chunk out of the meager savings I had in the first place
Now many other things need paying for and I have to use my free time to do flash programming on the side :(
When things ease up a bit I'll get back to it, until then I'll just be reading whenever I can
-
16 gauge wire?
You've gotta be kidding there!
Are you trying to wire a house there?
Try bumping the gauge up a notch or 10 there...get some of that good magnet wire you know...22 or higher...
I have a roll of 58 gauge wire that's used on the voice coils to electric guitars, and those can hit some super high frequencies, a lot higher than 16 gauge wire can!
The problem with 58 gauge wire is that it take almost a zillionth of an amp to convert to smoke.
I know 22 gauge peaks out at 7 amps melting, 6 to be on the hot side, and 5 is safe to handle...
Need some?
500 wraps? what's the Inside diameter? What's the length? How many layers, if any more than a single layer?
Sorry for being the bull in the china shop here, but someone's gotta ask the important questions as blunt as possible.
Y'all can start flaming me now...
StihlWoody
-
Have you built anything yet Woody? You seem to be quite the expert.
-
LtBolo:
YUP!
Let's recap:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9448.msg250153#msg250153
Maybe you didn't see it before eh?
Either you are too busy working...
or didn't care to read.
I hope you were too busy working, because I doubt you to be that mentally lazy.
StihlWoody
-
More specifically:
6,744 turns of 22 gauge magnet wire, 5 layers deep.
ID of the tube is 1.5 inches, wire wrapping is 12 inches in length, with .135 inch thick sidewall between the wire and the solution.
Still need to build a driver circuit.
If it doesn't work, then I will try something different, one variable at a time- the way science SHOULD BE: without the political BS.
Busting chain in the woods doesn't leave much time or physical energy to do much else after a bit.
If a back-woods guy is too rough on you city boys, too bad, the real world doesn't coddle like the internet. Maybe Alaska should step up to the plate and come forth.
Did he lose the unit? Throw it away in the trash? Leave it on the tailgate and drive away? or did it not work at all?
I can see the skeptics saying it's not plausible, but with Kanzius proving it...I am going to side with Chet on the hope for success.
Kanzius?
Yeah.
Try this: Sodium Chloride (salt) also known as NaCl, when electrolyzed, will release the chlorine gas, the water- when electrolyzed- will release hydrogen and oxygen, while the sodium stays behind.
The chlorine, hydrogen, and oxygen combust in a bright ORANGE FLAME. This produces HYDROCHLORIC ACID VAPOR.
Now, the SODIUM STAYED BEHIND IN THE WATER SOLUTION!!
THE SODIUM STAYS BEHIND!!
So, this tells me that the reaction from the Kanzius experiment from bombarding SODIUM in WATER will release the electromagnetic energy in the form of INDUCED CURRENT into the water, splitting the water into Hydrogen and Oxygen.
So if this is the case, then Kanzius proved Alaska's purported theory to be CORRECT and FUNCTIONAL.
Now keep this in mind as we all don't have the same equipment in our garage that Kanzius did in his lab, simply because we all don't have a bazillion dollars lingering around.
Now, if the theory that Alaska/Chris proposed to be true, AND Kanzius proved it, then (aha! That good old "if-then" logic statement....) maybe we can do it on a smaller and cheaper scale.
If it can be done on a smaller and cheaper scale, independence from energy can be achieved.
So you made an attempt, and it failed. So?
Try again. Change something. Change one variable at a time until you get the results you need.
Maybe you need to release other ions into the solution?
Maybe his solution had impurities?
He was playing with Zinc and Steel (I think...) from another thing that was on a DVD...so maybe he added Zinc powder? Steel Powder? Both to the Sodium?
See? There's a variable!!! You can TRY IT!!
What's to lose? You COULD succeed and be king of the ant hill for the day... Or....you can take your 1 attempt that failed and be all negative about it.
I prefer to keep trying. It's the human condition to never give up hope, unless you've been drinking that city water and it scrambled your brains.
StihlWoody
StihlWoody
-
StihlWoody
It's really not possible to flame you on this one.
Your point of view ,your efforts,your logic,
Infallible up to this point!
Please consider posting more info on your build
It looks very "Smart" in its design .
Looks like a good test Chassis and could get the ball rolling on experimentation.
And besides home depot could use the business
Thanks
Chet
-
So you put some wire on a tube, Woody. Congratulations.
If you had actually built something...and by that I mean everything including electronics...what you would find is that the inductance is so high that you will have a very difficult time pushing any real power into the coil. Which is not to say that it won't work, just that you have to go to higher voltages...which complicates things.
When I hear that 17MHz was used with this type of coil, I'm a little concerned. With 800 turns, the inductance would be at least milli-henries. If my math is correct, at 17Mhz into 1mH you would have to be using nearly 1000v to get the current high enough to push 5 watts. At 10mH, it would be more like 2200v. In a pulsed DC mode that's not the easiest feat. Now that I think about it, we designed a CCFL driver circuit that would push about 5 watts at high voltage. Maybe I'll break that one out and see what it does.
Please understand, I'm not saying it doesn't work. I am saying that contrary to assertions, it isn't as easy as suggested.
And yes, Chet, this is what folks like me do for a living. Every day. I'm a degreed EE with about 20 years industry experience. I run an electronics design and manufacturing company with 22 employees. That experience gives me a pretty good nose for stuff, and this smells a little funny. Not rotten, but definitely a little funny.
I agree that Kansius proved something is possible and until that has been replicated via magnetic induction and the power levels evaluated, there remains hope of the viability.
-
LTbolo
Sorry for being Facetious With that crack!
Just seemed like you were throwin in the towel too soon!
And besides that, the few comments you are making now ,are sheading more understanding on this.
Problems always make one reflect ,
==================
LTbolo
Quote:
Now that I think about it, we designed a CCFL driver circuit that would push about 5 watts at high voltage. Maybe I'll break that one out and see what it does.
-------------
Thank you
Chet
-
Throwing in the towel? Not exactly.
This isn't a hobby for me. This is how I make a living for myself and everyone who works for me. I really don't have the luxury of playing with this. If there is something that works, I very much want to investigate it and determine if there is a productizable technology here. I hope that is the case.
I've tried a few obvious things and didn't have a good result. That tells me that it is more difficult than portrayed. Hopefully others will have better luck. If so, I'll jump back in.
-
OK, so according to Tesla, you can pass millions of volts through a wire as fine as a human hair at such low amperages as to not burn it out.
Somehow, maybe it's possible to use multiple stages of ignition style coils to provide a continuous electron flow?
Or should I look into a Tesla Coil to get the voltages?
If I look on Ebay, I find Tesla Coil Primary Windings built EXACTLY like the tube I built.
Could be something there?
And LTbolo...
In case again you didn't read, I mentioned that I still need to build the driver circuit. I think over-building it would be ideal, something like using them 1000 volt, 400 Amp Toshiba IGBT units?
Not sure if it can handle the frequencies, because they are used in MRI machines, they should go pretty fast, but no guarantee there...
StihlWoody
-
Yes Woody I have read your posts. You attack me in them, you criticize my motives in them, you assert that I am lazy in them, and you pontificate in them. The only thing that you don't do in them, is talk about actual replication attempts.
Why don't you do something and then talk about it, and leave me alone. I'm not your enemy, I'm just a guy trying make a living and hopefully help somebody along the way.
-
Mission statement
We are here to explore/replicate Magnetolysis!
"Open Source
"
PLEASE JOIN US!!
This effect as first rediscovered by Chris Hunter [Arctictek.com]
And then Kanzius and Norman.
Takes 1 watt of power to make 1200 liters of HHO in 1 minute!
[5 watts 5 minutes 5700 liters of HHO]
As witnessed by Oswaldonfire, Chris Hunter And several other replicaters.
We are here to "Open source" this Replication.
and utilize every possible resource at our disposal!
AND WE WILL SUCCEED!!
JOIN US!
----------------------------------------------------------
Experiments will be posted here,
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9690.msg255334#new
Please No text other than experiments
Ask Questions or whatever at this thread
-
Ok...
If the inductance is so high, how then (Ltbolo...) does one build a coil that is actually capable of performing this task?
Bifilar windings?
Flat windings?
Caduceus Windings?
Toroid?
Staged windings?
Parallel windings?
So not everyone is an electrical engineer here, and few have actually posted pictures (known as PROOF) of their build attempts.
Is there any reference material that will give a description of HOW to build a high gauss strength winding capable of 17 MHz?
I am not saying that it will definitely work, nor am I saying that it won't work, I am trying to get this working (if possible) to discover if there's a cheap and effective method to do such.
Kanzius did it.... but he had multi-million dollar machines to play with.
StihlWoody
-
SSOOoo..............
17 mhz is a shortwave radio frequency [hence Chris Hunter"s "Crystal"]
We know that we can throw a "carrier" of 17 mhz with a transmitter at a power of 5 watts no problem
Is it possible to oscillate 17mhz into a dipole[antenna/coil]
Sort of like a microwave does?
any sugestions "bolt"?[cringe]
anyone?
seems like we could change the crystal on any old cb radio
for the "carrier".
how to oscillate?
bolt?
[cringe again]
anyone?
Chet
-
Sodium Disposal (http://www.guzer.com/videos/disposal_of_sodium.php) Vintage video clip from the 1940's. It shows how they disposed of sodium after the war.
-
Sodium Disposal (http://www.guzer.com/videos/disposal_of_sodium.php) Vintage video clip from the 1940's. It shows how they disposed of sodium after the war.
-
iquant
amazing, obviously sodium brings alot to the table.
SW @all
I'll be meeting this weekend with an EE about this !
And then a chemical engineer,plus I have a physicist
in the family if need be.
Open source of course.
No stone left unturned!
Chet
-
If the inductance is so high, how then (Ltbolo...) does one build a coil that is actually capable of performing this task?
I'd say the question is best posed to the guys that claimed to have done it. I'm just offering my observations as I play with this.
If a magnetic field is the goal, any coil that cancels or contains the magnetism (bifilar, toroid, caduceus) wouldn't be a very good choice.
To make lots of magnetism you either need lots of windings or lots of current. Lots of windings makes lots of inductance. Lots of inductance makes lots of inductive reactance. Just 10mH at 17MHz is slightly over 1 meg ohm of inductive reactance. I just threw a 2' long by 2" diameter 800 turn air core inductor into the calculator...it is estimated at 82mH. That translates into nearly 9 meg ohms of inductance at 17MHz. To put 5W into that would require about 6600v at about 750uA.
While I want to believe Oswald and Chris...and I honestly do...observations like this give me a bit of a pause. The circuits required to do this are reasonably difficult for a hobbyist to build.
As for using RF, I'm sure that could work since Kansius did it, but you can't simply take the 5W output of a CB radio and push that into a coil. That 5W rating is based on pushing into an antenna with a standing wave ratio (SWR) as close to 1 as possible. Virtually any coil you build will have an SWR much higher than that, which will likely result in destroying the radio. Not sure how much power Kansius used, but my gut tells me it was hundreds or thousands of watts....and probably well under unity.
On a positive note, given the difficulty of pushing significant power into the coil, if you do see gas it probably isn't vapor.
-
What about adding Nickel Nanowires (http://mrsec.wisc.edu/Edetc/nanolab/nickel/) to the NaOH solution?
-
Ltbolo:
THANK YOU!!!
Your last post contained really good and useful information!!!
Now I may grate your nerves pretty bad, but the goal isn't to heckle you. The goal is to find/ try something that may possibly work.
If economic collapse is coming, we (the humans of this planet) are going to need and require an alternative.
This being the case, maybe if you could volunteer some more of this useful information, even if it's speculative, or even un-tested, it might shed light on something or spark an innovative idea.
StihlWoody
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Saw my name was up earlier as one of those dedicated to this project.
This is correct, but I won't be able to initiate my own planned experiments until november,
since the guy who will design the equipment for my AC pulsed test series is gone to Chile for an
installment of an automated mining transport system.
This guy is absolutely invaluable in my participation in this project, since I do not have the academic
background for solving the inductive reactance problem as well as just getting together the optimal
hardware configuration.
Still, I have done some research on the net regarding different kinds of magnetic pulse systems as well
as high frequency pulse systems, but really don´t know if this could be of any value to you guys who
have a better understanding.
For example, would a double-gate-type static-induction thyristor (DG-SIThy) with a high blocking voltage and a high current rating be of use?
The high frequency pulsed power generator using this DG-SIThy seemd quite simple to build, and was made
as a portable unit, powered with a 12 volt battery.
The PDF also contains some heavy duty stuff like a Pulsed High-Current Generator
using IGBT and Magnetic Pulse Compression.
http://www.webstracts.com/ppc2005/papers/10344.pdf
Gwandau
-
I would agree that there are coil arrangements that would work at high frequencies, but in general, I don't think they are going to produce a meaningful magnetic field. Not that I'm married to the idea of the field, but Chris Hunter stressed that magnetic field intensity was the key.
At the levels of inductance that must be present, high voltage is the only way to deliver the power levels he claimed. Of course the power supply required to provide the thousands of volts it would require, are more difficult to build.
I was messing around in the lab a bit tonight, and hooked up a flat solenoid/plastic tube to my Tesla Hairpin. With the tube empty, it will pull about a 1" plasma arc to ground. With the tube filled with NaOH solution, it wouldn't resonate at all...which surprised me...but then after thinking about it, it really doesn't...I can actually think of several possible reasons why it kills the ringing. I reduced the amount of NaOH to about 3" in the bottom, and was able to pull about 1/4" arc. I left it running for a while but got nothing out.
The hairpin is driven with a 250W oil furnace transformer. The spark gap is about 1"...crazy loud and crazy bright. A 100W halogen bulb lights very nicely when hooked across the bars. Clearly there is plenty of power at high frequency.
I wanna believe guys...but nothing I've seen gives me much hope.
-
Well
Spent yesterday with an EE buddy.
Felt like I was in church , bein rebuked ,been there many times before !
Ltbolo I appreciate the perspective you bring to this Forum all the more.
The what if ? kind of mentality! Instead of the "Blasphemy Heretic Whacko"
But thats OK the world will catch up ,and so will the science!
Besides that was just a warm up for the guy I really want to run this by,
An EE extraordinaire,not ready for that yet .
Our friend Mags [Magluvin] emailed back with some very cool insight.And some ideas for "testing".
Hope he can join us soon !\
Real soon!:}
Chet
-
Hi all
I just noticed that I posted in the wrong thread last night. sorry. If you want to get rid of it and paste it here, please do.
Well I found a site that is useful. http://www.cirris.com/testing/resistance/wire.html
So 22 ga 800 turns on a 1 in. ID is 1.25 OD I think and the wire resistance per foot is .01614 ohms
The circumference is 3.14159 x 1.25 = 3.92 in x 800 turns = 3136 in / 12 in. = 261.3 ft of 22 ga x .01614 ohms per ft = 4.2 ohms total coil approximately.
So lets say 13.5v car running / 4.2 ohms = 3.2 amps 24v/4.2= 5.7 amps
All this if just battery voltage is used to pulse the coil.
But the Tesla igniter circuit could use less current than assumed above and fill a cap with high voltage and dump the cap to the coil. Pulse. Good pulse.
Well I got a test tube with a rubber stopper and going to try some small tests. I have some coils premade to experiment with. Its easy to try and I chose glass to see the reaction if any.
Will post results when I get some. ;]
Mags
-
Mags,
Thanks Bud,
If the "edit" hasn't timed out just delete and move to here!
Or just repost here.[if you don't ,I will]
Chet
PS
you always have cool ideas on how to experiment on the cheap!,with limited resources!
These sugestions you offer here ,are just such examples,
and if we can add the Gauss as anonymous mayonaise man is doing maybe we can show some progress!
-
Hi all
Ive been out of the loop for a bit, but had a lot of time to think.
Ram emailed me to check out this idea and it sounds good.
It seems we have all the ingredients other than solution density and how to fire the coil.
Solution will have to be experimented with.
Firing the coil, I would use cap discharge. High impulse dc. Teslas Igniter circuit just might do it. But a cap discharge of high voltage, say start at 300v, starting with small caps at first.
Just a suggestion from what I understand of it at this point.
Caps at high volts can deliver gobs of amps into the coil instantaneously, and produce a strong field very quickly.
Again, just from what I read since last night, I see the particles all in a series/ parallel glob, maybe, but it will take a good pulse to produce all the energy needed to get the majority of the particles to split water all together.
I like the capacitive plates on the container idea also. Believe it or not, I had thoughts of this within the last 2 weeks as to if it could work, being the water becomes a part of the capacitors makeup. This will provide voltage potential within the water, but the induction idea does hold more plate surface area as suggested.
A cheap strobe light can charge a cap to 400v pretty quick, put a larger cap in, it will take longer to charge with the same circuit, but will pulse harder. If it works, build or buy a bigger strobe circuit or just a flash circuit.
Hope this helps
Mags
pasted from repl. thread
-
one more thing. From what I know, dc works better at producing hho better than ac. But I dont know if that applies here. And we all know that the field needs to fluctuate to produce current in a conductor. I would also try some low freq ac. It has a longer dc component which might work.
I read 5 amps input. Does anyone have an ohm reading of a coil according to the directions so far? The voltage can be calculated V=IxR just to get a base going.
Now if it took an average of 5 amps to charge a cap for discharge, the this would produce a lot of energy considering the size of the discharge cap.
But if it is ac, the voltage requirements might be higher as freq goes up, considering the coil impedance. But as long as we have a way to measure the current at around 5 amps, at whatever voltage or freq together produces 5 amps, someone should be able to get close keeping these things in mind.
But then again, 5 amps where? In the coil? From a 12v supply battery?
Just ideas
Mags
pasted from the repl. thread
-
I'm going to start to post relevant info for a replication attempt today,
I will modify this post through out the day,between conversations and emails and past posts of Chris Hunter,
I'm trying to get this Autism project up to schedule at the same time
From an Email
Chris Hunter
I know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I have blanked his name, and his email.
You have been seeking independent validation of various theories that I came up with, and successful replication. The person I have been conversing with will probably see this and shoot me, but he, like me, would rather stay out of the public forums and the stew-pot of feces that is found there.
Like I stated from the beginning, this is, has been, and always will be far simpler than you can imagine. You have always the option of making it super complicated.
Now I was asked a question regarding his build and his design with a stumbling block, and I answered his problem, which has relevance to what you are working on, for that is the only reason I am sharing it with you. Keep in mind that my non-participation in the forum and his non-participation in the forum is not something that says that I am hiding anything. This guy has the brains enough to figure it out, for all it's simplicity, and use it.
How hard can it be?
So, I am sharing this with you in confidence that it would not be twisted around, but the knowledge gained and applied, proven, can be used to teach others, so that they my indeed understand such simple concepts.
Chris
-
Ltbolo
Quote:
It is obvious to me that nearly any coil of a length needed to generate a significant magnetic field is also going to have enough inductance that high frequency drive will be difficult at any real power level. That leaves me pretty skeptical that 17MHz could happen
-------------------------------
Sounds like a problem!!
Some peeps make their livin solving problems like this,
I'm glad you posted this,Its actually the first real info from an attempt in recent times.
Actually Not much of a problem at all.
Most radio transmitters are set up to output into a 50 ohm impedance (load).
This can easily be achieved by taking whatever coil you are using attaching one end of the coil to the center conductor of the feed coax and the other end to a 50 ohm non inductive resistor, and the other end of the resistor grounded to the earth and coax shield.
Ham radio operators use this trick all the time.
the radio sees the desired impedance, and you will realize significant RF power through the coil.
There are inexpensive tuners that can be used to improve the load into the antenna.
Also be aware RF voltage is Waaay different than DC voltage. A CB set can develop several hundred RF volts on a properly tuned antenna.
As for the 17 Mhz I am curious where you came up with that number.
I read through Kanzius's patent and 17 Mhz is not mentioned.
27.12 Mhz is and that is at the top of the CB Band (11 meter) band.
Excerpt from Kanzius patent relating to specific frequencies.
<Certain RF absorption enhancers of the present invention (e. g., those using TILs as a carrier) may be internalized by target cells. Additionally, it may be desirable to surgically-place certain RF absorption enhancers in a patient, e. g., metallic radioactive "seeds. " [0055] RF hyperthermia generating signal may have a frequency corresponding to a selected parameter of an RF enhancer, e. g., 13.56 MHz, 27.12 MHz, 915 MHz, 1.2 GHz. Several RF frequencies have been allocated for industrial, scientific, and medical (ISM) equipment, e. g.: 6.78 MHz #15.0 kHz; 13.56 MHz #7.0 kHz; 27.12 MHz #163.0 kHz; 40.68 MHz #20.0 kHz; 915 MHz #13.0 MHz; 2450 MHz #50.0 MHz. See Part 18 of Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations. It is believed that hyperthermia generating RF signals at sequentially higher frequency harmonics of 13.56 MHz will penetrate into respectively deeper tissue, e. g., a hyperthermia generating RF signal at 27.12 MHz will penetrate deeper than at 13.56 MHz, a hyperthermia generating RF signal at 40.68 MHz will penetrate deeper than at 27.12 MHz, a hyperthermia generating RF signal at 54.24 MHz will penetrate deeper than at 40.68 MHz, a hyperthermia generating RF signal at 67.80 MHz will penetrate deeper than at 54.24 MHz, a hyperthermia generating RF signal at 81.36 MHz will penetrate deeper than at 67.80 MHz, and so on (up to higher RF frequencies that may heat the skin uncomfortably or bum the skin). The optimum depth level is selected based upon antibodies used, and the physical size of the patient, the location and depth of the target area, and the tumor involved. As discussed above, combinations of two or more different frequencies may be used, e. g., a lower frequency RF component (such as 13.56 MHz) and a higher frequency component (such as 40.68 MHz) to target different tissue depths with the same hyperthermia generating RF signal.>
Kanzius's pantent here:
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description;jsessionid=671BD55E4F48A0C7FE47C05EC9A9B720.espacenet_levelx_prod_4?CC=WO&NR=2005120639A2&KC=A2&FT=D&date=20051222&DB=&locale=
I have been slowly collecting the bits I feel are necessary to begin experimentation with this effect. But am still not quite ready yet.
Time and space to do it are at a premium at the moment.
There are a lot of links on the web for antenna design.
google "beverage antenna"
Zatheros-
-
Zatheros,
Thank you for the breath of fresh air!
Who knows what a "dipole" [antenna]
is really capable of doing at the right freQ in the right media?
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
Chet
-
From another friend,[good guy]
wojwrobel
»hello
you may find this usefull
read, think and do.....
US3719583
US5124012
US7033478
US7033478
and most promessing WO2010066025A1 and EP2163514A1
cheers from poland
wojsciech
-
Chet,
I have a 4' piece of clear plastic pipe I picked up to make HHO electrolizers with. I had the idea some time ago to pick up some stainless wire, to make an antenna that would fit inside the length of the tube. Wind as much wire as I could, to make it close to a 1/4 wavelength or wavelength as possible.
Then plug the tube and fill with saltwater. Any gas production could be observed easily.
I have been collecting various radio gear to proceed with this.
I have a Kenwood TS-680 that will put out ~60 watts across most of the ham bands. I picked up a kit from a guy in Dayton to build a 300 watt class E amplifier that will tune from 14 Mhz to 30 Mhz.
The frequencies that Kanzius listed were not "magic" or proprietary to his success, they were simply frequencies that fall into the FCC ISM list, and were available for use for experimentation.
The magic lies in resonance, finding the fundamental frequency of resonance or harmonic overtone of the saltwater is the key.
I remember reading somewhere that the freq. Kanzius was using for the saltwater burn was 13.52 Mhz But I can't find that reference now.
Food for thought-
Zatheros
-
hello
I would like to add one more patent that describes in slow motion what really happens in this kind of water splitting
here is patent http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20060315&CC=CN&NR=1745884A&KC=A
its in chinese but in atachments you will find translation, really intresting !
cheers from poland
wojsciech
-
Gentlemen,
This feels like a good day for Open source research!
And A better day for our planet!
Thank you for the info I will be studying it [as I am sure others will]
Got family coming today !!
Very Cool.
Chet
-
So looking into those patents (PLEEESE!!! MY EYES ARE BLEEDING!!!) I find amongst the legal bullcrap that this is relatively all saying the exact same thing.
They are all proof that AlaskaStar/Chris Hunter was right all along, and it's easy like Oswald described in the beginning of this thread with that Sodium Formula.
So after all that, where does one begin?
I looked at Alaska's circuit, he includes a Xenon Bulb. WHY????
All I can surmise here is that he's doing capacitive discharge through the coil, and needed someplace for that energy to go, instead of displacing heat.
At 5 volts...even 12 volts...can't do much for shit until you do something like cap discharge to fire something like a flash-bulb.
Am I missing something here?
Did he use JUST ONE of these circuits, or did he use several of them staged out to put in a seemingly constant flow?
Maybe his wattage readings were wrong, because when you charge a cap, it can take a while, and the draw is constant...until it's full, but when that sumbitch releases all that energy into a primary coil, you can get one helluva spark that'll knock your pisser into next week.
Can you tell I had a 'hair raising' experience here?
StihlWoody
-
I looked at Alaska's circuit, he includes a Xenon Bulb. WHY????
StihlWoody
Hi Stihl,
I remember reading somewhere it is just a protection for the mosfet or transistor.....
regards Dutchy
Btw Reading/Studying WO 2010/066025 A1 at the moment. Seems very related!
-
Fellahs,
The talent is in the house!
Some of the best Open source Talent there is.
Chet
-
This is how it's done in the WO 2010/066025A1 patent:
Step 1 Electrolyte
100% saturated solution NaOH + H2O becomes:
Na+ + OH- + H2O
Step 2 Ionic sepearation
Either by EHD (electric), MHD (magnetic) or membrame technologies
(mono ionic) Na+
and
(mono ionic) OH-
into separated tanks!
Step 3 Electric charge exchange
By way of an electric connection between the two mono ionic solutions,
free electricity can be taken from the system.
At the same time at the teminals in the ionic solutions the following reactions take place:
terminal 1: 4OH- - 4e- = 2H2O + O2(gas) (hydroxyl is oxidezed to oxygen and water)
terminal 2: 4Na+ + 4e- = 4Na (Cations are reduced to neutral atoms)
4Na + 4 H2O = 4NaOH + 2H2(gas)
Ok so now we have (again!) NaOH + H2O ready to become electrolyte as in step 1 !
Step 4 Burn baby burn......
2H2 + O2 ready to be burned and give us lots of heat and water to refill the tank.
Seems all very straightforward and promising!!
So,
If we compare this to Alaska star's description the only difference seems to be the separation of the ionic species in step 2.
Therefore it would be fair to ask ourselfs if it is necessary to split the anions and cations in two separate tanks.
As I've have mentioned before, when we send a unidirectional (pulsating or not) magnetic field through the electrolyte the ions will get seperated in side the tank.
Lorentz forces will push them in different directions, the result is something like this:
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
Na+ Na+ H2O H2O H2O OH- OH-
| |
|_______ LOAD __________|
Wouldn't it then be possible to just put the terminals in the solution so that we get:
1 - current through a load
2 - 2H2 gas
3 - O2 gas
4 - Heat (exothermic reaction)
I always learned that as it seems to good to be true...it probably is.
So tell what is wrong with the above.....
regards,
Dutchy
-
hello
thats what im talking about !!!!
splitting water and making electricity at the same time!!!
finaly someone that can read and think ... now all it left is to do!!
cheers and good luck
wojsciech
ps in attachments you will find EP2163514A1 patent in word format so you can translate with google it has some important info also....
-
Anyone have access to: Some Considerations on the Electrolysis of Water from Sodium Hydroxide Solutions (http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=JSEEDO000123000002000143000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes&ref=no) ?
The unusually high solubilities and thermal coefficients of solubility of the alkali metal hydroxides make them attractive candidates for high-temperature electrolytic processes to produce high-pressure hydrogen. The feasibility of using strong sodium hydroxide (to keep down the saturation pressure of the condensed phase) electrolysis (to facilitate the separation of the hydrogen from oxygen over a liquid phase) at high temperatures (to increase the energy efficiency by substitution of process heat for electric power) and to increase the production rate in a given cell (by increasing the specific conductance of the working fluid) is explored and discussed. Suggestions are made for future research.
What happens when you drop a little sodium directly into over/super saturated NaOH solution?
Nothing until H20 is freed?
-
Check this out: Electrolysis of molten NaOH,and sodium explosions.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnXJg_asv-o)
A novel method of hydrogen generation by water electrolysis using
an ultra-short-pulse power supply (http://files.myopera.com/H2earth/files/A%20novel%20method%20of%20hydrogen%20generation%20by%20water%20electrolysis%20using.pdf)
By way of an electric connection between the two mono ionic solutions,
free electricity can be taken from the system.
At the same time at the teminals in the ionic solutions the following reactions take place:
terminal 1: 4OH- - 4e- = 2H2O + O2(gas) (hydroxyl is oxidezed to oxygen and water)
terminal 2: 4Na+ + 4e- = 4Na (Cations are reduced to neutral atoms)
4Na + 4 H2O = 4NaOH + 2H2(gas)
Ok so now we have (again!) NaOH + H2O ready to become electrolyte as in step 1 !
[edit]
In the laboratory, with careful control of conditions, sodium metal can be isolated from the electrolysis of the molten monohydrate according to the following reaction:
4 NaOH·H2O(l) → 4 Na(l) + O2(g) + 6 H2O(g)
"The monohydrate does not need to be heated in order to melt, as the process produces enough heat due to ohmic heating. However, it must be initiated with a small quantity of liquid water to create an electrically conductive electrolyte. As the system's temperature increases, the monohydrate will start to melt at about 65 °C as stated above. Only when the temperature reaches about 100 °C can sodium be isolated. Below this temperature, the water produced will react with the sodium, above this point, any water formed will be driven off in the vapour phase, creating an essentially anhydrous reaction. While this process has some advantages over other electrolytic processes, it is not preferred by most chemists for several reasons: a marginal quantity of sodium produced boils at the electrode interface, the vapour thus given off consists primarely of fumed sodium oxide, which tends settle on any surface in close proximity with corrosive consequences."
I'm guessing the NaOH solution we are trying to magnetolyze needs to run hot... > 65.1C.
-
Gentlemen,
If you're interests are Open source over unity
Grumpy[sigma 16] started a thread here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9749.msg257229#new
Chet
-
Chet,
I don't think you understand Iquant's statement.
100% saturation of NaOH in water.
Induction heating.
Keep it below the boiling temp of water, but above 65.1 degrees.
NaOH separates to Na+O+H.
The now liberated Na now goes for the nearest H20 molecule, breaking it into NaOH+H
Water becomes the reagent.
MAYBE.... JUST MAYBE!!! MAYBE...the 5 watts was all the power needed to MAINTAIN THE INDUCTION HEATING AFTER THE REACTION STARTS!!!!
If this is the case, then water will need to be added to the solution as hydrogen gas is released.
If this is as simple as it looks, then we now have the energy breakthrough needed!!!!
Every home, office, car, plane, bus, boat...everything can now be powered on water!!!
I HOPE THIS WORKS!!!
StihlWoody
-
SW
I have been a little distracted ,I get the jist of what iquant and dutchy are saying
We need to move forward with this !
ANYBODY!
give us suggestions !
We will do the experiments!
Chet
-
Maybe a few experimenters can post energy consumption results for standard electrolysis of Super Saturated NaOH at different temps.
20C - Room Temp
66C - Just > NaOH Melting Point < Na Melting Point
99C - > Na melting point < H20 Boiling Temp.
135C < boiling point of 50% NaOH concentration.
Not sure what the boiling point is for super saturated NaOH but I do know the vapor fumes are highly toxic.
My guess is we can run much hotter than 140C as saturation % increases probably up to 300C.
There is much activity in the area of NAS batteries being researched by the Govt. Cerematec / Coorstec and NKG of Japan are leading the way. NKG uses Beta Alumina operating > 300C - 600C and Cerematec utilizes NaSICON at around 100 C. The reason for NKG's high temp was to reduce resistance. Cerematec is working on a Sodium Sulfur Battery for Home Grid Applications. About the size of a small fridge 20KWH 15 year life... $2k.
-
SW
I have been a little distracted ,I get the jist of what iquant and dutchy are saying
We need to move forward with this !
ANYBODY!
give us suggestions !
We will do the experiments!
Chet
Chet,
I've annotated one of the picture from the patent WO 2010/066025 A1.
Hopefully this makes it clear to you what is explained and claimed for in it.
regards
Dutchy
-
Traded a few emails with Alaskastar regarding a Sodium Battery of sorts.
Through our exchange he suggested taking a look at Ammonia for my particular application...
Wow! theoretically the electrolysis of ammonia consumes 95% lower energy than a water electrolyzer!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Electrolysis of Ammonia: an in-Situ Hydrogen Production Process
Gerardine G. Botte, Luciano Benedetti, and Juan Gonzalez. Chemical Engineering, Ohio University, 183 Stocker Center, Ohio University, Athens, OH 45701
Introduction
Hydrogen is the main fuel source for power generation with fuel cells, but its storage and transportation are still major issues. To overcome these problems, hydrogen has been stored and transported via other chemical compounds, such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, ammonia, etc. In many ways, ammonia is an excellent hydrogen carrier [1]; liquid ammonia represents a convenient way of storing supplies of hydrogen, boasting a specific energy density (kWh/l) 50% higher than liquefied hydrogen. Ammonia is also easily condensed at ambient temperature (under 8 bar of pressure), which makes it a good choice for transportation and storage. Even though ammonia is flammable within defined limits (16%-25% by volume in the air) and toxic (above 25 ppm) its presence can be detected by its characteristic odor (above 5 ppm). Ammonia is produced world-wide in large quantities (more than 100 million ton/year), which allows the effect of economy of scale on the cost of production. Its decomposition by electro-oxidation in alkaline media at low overpotentials is NOx and COx free with nitrogen and water as products of reaction [2].
The Electrochemical Engineering Research Laboratory (EERL) at Ohio University (OU) is working on the development of a new technology for the production of hydrogen in-situ from the electrolysis of ammonia. The reactions take place in alkaline medium as shown [3-5]:
2NH3(aq) + 6OH- -> N2(g) + 6H2O + 6e- (1)
2H2O + 6e- -> 3H2(g) + 6OH- (2)
Reactions (1) and (2) take place at the anode and cathode, respectively. At 25 oC the ammonia oxidation potential is -0.77 V versus Standard Hydrogen Electrode (SHE), only 0.06 V less negative than the value of -0.83 V vs. SHE for hydrogen evolution in alkaline solution. Therefore, thermodynamic values are much in favor of the production of hydrogen coupled to the oxidation of ammonia compared to hydrogen production by electrolysis of water, for which the theoretical cell voltage is 1.23 V. One of the advantage of this process is its ease of integration with renewable energy (electricity) sources. Because the energy consumption is low, the cell could operate with renewable energy (or by stealing part of the energy of a PEM hydrogen fuel cell if the ammonia electrolytic cell operates close to the theoretical potential). Therefore, hydrogen could be produced on demand, minimizing the needs for hydrogen storage. The theoretical energy consumption during ammonia electrolysis can be calculated from the standard potential of the cell and is equal to 1.55 Wh/g H2 while the electrolysis of water requires at least 33 Wh/g H2 at standard conditions, this means that theoretically the electrolysis of ammonia consumes 95% lower energy than a water electrolyzer. The scalability of the technology as well as its ability to easily operate in an on-demand mode facilitates the technology's ability to interface with renewable energy sources including those whose production of electricity may vary with time (for example, wind and solar energy).
Recently, we had developed novel catalysts that enhance the oxidation of ammonia in alkaline medium. The catalysts are made by electrodeposition of nobel metals on carbon fibers [5]. The novel electrocatalysts allow the achievement of current densities of up to 75 mA/cm2 at cell voltage of 0.45 V. Within this context, the objective of this paper is to evaluate the technical and economical feasibility of producing hydrogen from the electrolysis of ammonia for distributed power generation using the novel electrodes. These results will be presented at the meeting.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ohio University Licenses Ammonia Electrolyzer Technology to American Hydrogen
6 August 2007
Ohio University has granted a worldwide exclusive license to American Hydrogen Corporation, a subsidiary of American Security Resources Corp., to commercialize the patent-pending catalytic electrolyzer technology developed by Ohio University’s Dr. Gerardine Botte, associate professor of Chemical and Bio-Molecular Engineering at the Russ College of Engineering and Technology.
Ammonia electrolysis could produce hydrogen at a current cost of $0.899/kg H2, according to Botte. The US Department of Energy’s target cost for hydrogen is $2/kg H2. The ammonia process is also much less energy intensive than water electrolysis, requiring 1.55 W-h/g H2, compared to 33 W-h/gH2 for water electrolysis.
Ammonia electrolysis could be extended to use ammonia from waste water (e.g., from livestock or municipal waste water) as a feedstock as well.
Ammonia electrolysis couples the ammonia electro-oxidation reaction with the hydrogen evolution reaction for the production of high-purity hydrogen in an alkaline electrolytic cell. The reactions are as follows:
2NH3(aq) + 6OH- → N2(g) + 6H2O + 6e- (1)
6H2O + 6e- → 3H2(g) + 6OH- (2)
The overall reaction is:
2NH3(aq) → N2(g) + 3H2(g) (3)
One of the challenges faced by ammonia electrolysis is the need for the development of improved catalysts for ammonia electro-oxidation. While significant current densities can be obtained from platinized Pt electrodes, higher current densities quickly deactivate the catalyst.
A number of studies have tried different combinations of catalyst materials, with unsatisfactory results—very low current densities and the deactivation of the catalyst.
Botte and her team combined a catalyst—containing Raney nickel, platinum, and rhodium prepared by electrodeposition—with an operating procedure for the electrolytic cell that prevents deactivation of the catalyst over a long period of time.
-
Wow,
This is quite interesting info !!
Thanks iquant!
Thanks Chris hunter!
And of course Dutchy!
Fellahs this is amazing stuff!
Dutchy you had some ideas?
Chet
-
Ok, still following with great interest, but not up on all the physics of it. I know that ammonia mixed with other compounds can release deadly gasses....are you considering inducing a magnetic field through a vessel containing super-saturated NAOH with ammonia vs with water? Is this safe?
-
Here is the deal..
1 liter of liquid Ammonia stores 2x the amount of hydrogen as 1 liter of liquid hydrogen!
Liquid Ammonia can be stored at ambient temp & pressure and theoretically requires 1/20 the equivalent H20 energy for electrolysis.
Storing Liquid Hydrogen requires Cryogenic dewars...
Storing Gaseous Hydrogen requires High Pressure composite tanks.
1 Liter of Liquid Hydrogen expands to 851 Liters of Hydrogen gas at 1 ATM 20C.
1 Liter of Liquid Ammonia through electrolysis liberates 1702 Liters of Hydrogen Gas
A 34 Liter 700 bar High Pressure Hydrogen tank stores 28 liters of liquid hydrogen expanding to 24,000 liters of gas.
Lots of safety issues to contend with not to mention the cost of the equipment.
14 Liters of Liquid Ammonia contains 24,000 liters of hydrogen gas... full capacity of the high pressure tank and can be generated on demand consuming less energy than produced.
A US 18 Gallon tank of Ammonia with on board electrolysis (1/20th the energy requirement) would give a hydrogen vehicle 5x the range of an existing hydrogen tank + air conditioning (Ammonia is a refrigerant). All the infrastructure is already in place and Ammonia is relatively dirt cheap.. $400 a ton.. $1 per gallon
Horizon Fuel Cell technologies has a 5kW PEM Fuel Cell consuming 70l / minute. About 15 gallons of Ammonia would provide 5kw of power for 24 hours. The average US Household consumes 920 Kwh / month = approx 120 Gallons of Ammonia.
Ammonia is probably the best Hydrogen Battery...
"On-board hydrogen storage and production via ammonia electrolysis was evaluated to determine whether the process was feasible using galvanostatic studies between an ammonia electrolytic cell (AEC) and a breathable proton exchange membrane fuel cell (PEMFC). Hydrogen-dense liquid ammonia stored at ambient temperature and pressure is an excellent source for hydrogen storage. This hydrogen is released from ammonia through electrolysis, which theoretically consumes 95% less energy than water electrolysis; 1.55 Wh g−1 H2 is required for ammonia electrolysis and 33 Wh g−1 H2 for water electrolysis. An ammonia electrolytic cell (AEC), comprised of carbon fiber paper (CFP) electrodes supported by Ti foil and deposited with Pt–Ir, was designed and constructed for electrolyzing an alkaline ammonia solution. Hydrogen from the cathode compartment of the AEC was fed to a polymer exchange membrane fuel cell (PEMFC). In terms of electric energy, input to the AEC was less than the output from the PEMFC yielding net electrical energies as high as 9.7 ± 1.1 Wh g−1 H2 while maintaining H2 production equivalent to consumption"
Edit Here is a link for a video showing the reaction of Sodium Metal and Liquid Ammonia. (http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/JCESoft/CCA/CCA8/MAIN/8/98/07/movie.html)
Ok, still following with great interest, but not up on all the physics of it. I know that ammonia mixed with other compounds can release deadly gasses....are you considering inducing a magnetic field through a vessel containing super-saturated NAOH with ammonia vs with water? Is this safe?
-
Gentlemen,
So far I have found three things that don't work.
I was able to conduct a few experiments using High frequency RF and UHF RF energy to split water. So far I have not had any luck.
I took a 250 ML graduated cylinder and wrapped 24 ga. wire around the cylinder fro the base to about 6" above the base.
I attached a 50 300 watt carbon pile resistor to one end of the wire and chassis ground. The other end of the wire was attached to the center conductor of a pl-259 RF chassis connector.
I chose this method for two reasons-
1) To not destroy my radio gear in the pursuit of the experimentation.
2) This method will definitely deliver RF power ( field ) to the cylinder.
I filled the cylinder with a saturated aqueous solution of sodium Hydroxide. I powered the coil on the cylinder with ~40 watts @ 146 Mhz and observed the cylinder to look for any hint of gas production in the cylinder.
Nothing.
I then tried a lower frequency. I tried 28 Mhz @ ~ 60 watts.
Nothing.
I went down to 18 Mhz @ ~ 40 watts.
Again nothing.
I will repeat these same experiments with saltwater when I get time.
Zatheros
-
What was the temp of your solution? Try > 66C.
Gentlemen,
So far I have found three things that don't work.
I was able to conduct a few experiments using High frequency RF and UHF RF energy to split water. So far I have not had any luck.
I took a 250 ML graduated cylinder and wrapped 24 ga. wire around the cylinder fro the base to about 6" above the base.
I attached a 50 300 watt carbon pile resistor to one end of the wire and chassis ground. The other end of the wire was attached to the center conductor of a pl-259 RF chassis connector.
I chose this method for two reasons-
1) To not destroy my radio gear in the pursuit of the experimentation.
2) This method will definitely deliver RF power ( field ) to the cylinder.
I filled the cylinder with a saturated aqueous solution of sodium Hydroxide. I powered the coil on the cylinder with ~40 watts @ 146 Mhz and observed the cylinder to look for any hint of gas production in the cylinder.
Nothing.
I then tried a lower frequency. I tried 28 Mhz @ ~ 60 watts.
Nothing.
I went down to 18 Mhz @ ~ 40 watts.
Again nothing.
I will repeat these same experiments with saltwater when I get time.
Zatheros
-
So it seems that Chris Hunter/ AlaskaStar is a bit smarter than he want anyone to know.
WHAT ELSE IS HE DOING?
I didn't see anything in his shop regarding refrigerant except a few snap-on tools, and r134a bottles, propane bottles...
But this stuff is so simple. Why did he disappear from all the boards?
Was he chased off or something?
If this stuff comes so simple and easy to him, then where is he? What is he really working on?
rrrg! Now I am curious!
Where do we begin?
The science is starting to show that maybe it was a heater, not so much of a EMF reactor?
If that's the case, then we may be close to cracking it?
I am wanting to build, but where to start now?
StihlWoody
-
SW
We seem to have a conglomeration of ideas that can change our world forever!
we should figure a way to focus our efforts and choose a path!
Chet
PS
There is also an amazing amount of talent watching!
PPS
they say we can run around like chickens with our heads cut off!
Lets not do that!
Ideas??
-
Perhaps if we pick the one we can actually replicate ,and go from there?
Or the biggest bang for the buck?
Dutchy,
Are there any claims made in your patent research on Energy in energy out?
iquant,
ammonia? is this feasible?[sounds like it].
We allready know Chris Hunter has a 5 minute, 5 watt, 5700 liter claim!
Geesh, that sounds good!!
HHMMmm......
we have three threads in one here,but somehow some things seem connected perhaps the focus is just around the corner!
Chet
-
Dutchy,
Are there any claims made in your patent research on Energy in energy out?
Chet
Chet,
There is no claim of COP but the system is nearly passive. Basically it works like this:
NaOH and H2O are put in a tank. Then the system starts running and it gives you electricity, Hydrogen and Oxygen. After using these three, the Sodium hydroxy and water are collected in two separate tanks.
Up to this stage no external energy input is used!
Just to restart the system you have to put the two separate tanks back into the starting tank...so you might need a little bit of input energy to pump it back. (Or you can do it manually yourself :-) )
ALL ingredients are recovered!
Just read the patent, it is not diffecult and makes things very clear. As you know I have already a passive ion separator to replace the design in the patent.
regards
Dutchy
-
Exploring a few different routes:
#1: Liquid Electrode using Sodium Hydroxide for Magnetolysis of H20.
So far no luck replicating but worth continuing efforts.
Currently playing with temp/pressure.
#2. Ammonia for Hydrogen Storage.
Conceptually - safe and easier to use for on demand H2 generation.
No cryo - No high Pressure COPV - 1.5x H2 density by volume over liquid hydrogen.
You always lose energy converting mediums and storing.. But Ammonia appears to be fairly efficient.
1/20 the energy for electrolysis compared to cracking H20 directly.
Near zero storage losses with virtually unlimited shelf life.
Unlike Fossil fuels NH3 can be made synthetically anywhere
#3. Solid State Ammonia Synthesis
As per the general concept presented by NHThree here. (http://www.energy.iastate.edu/Renewable/ammonia/ammonia/2007/SSAS_Oct2007_Final.pdf)
General idea is to use Magnetolysis of Sodium Hydroxide for Solid State Ammonia Synthesis.
The cycle as I see it is:
1. NH3 Synthesis
--------------
3 H2 + N2 => 2 NH3
2. NH3 Storage
---------------
Both H2 and NH3 are energy transport systems, not energy sources. - Clearly when the cost of transport is included, room temperature NH3 system is much cheaper and much lighter. The distribution infrastructure exists today.
3. Power Generation
-------------------------------
NH3 Electrolysis - H2 Fuel Cells
Direct NH3 Fuel Cells
95% NH3 + 5% H2 as 170 octane ICE burnable fuel.
Lots of possibilities all generating carbon free N2 & H20 as byproduct
-
Hello Dutchy
Thanks for the heads up on that patent.
I have downloaded it and am studying it.
I think I have all the parts here to give it a quick and dirty shot.
I just need to know a bit more about separating the M+ ions and the OH- ions.
I will go the high voltage field way and see how that goes for me.
Gsm
-
I just need to know a bit more about separating the M+ ions and the OH- ions.
Gsm
I do have a few other patents that deal with separating the Na+ and OH- ions. I'm still debating US 7223335 patent as it is fully passive.
It uses magnetism only. Just not sure how valid it is.
Of course the best would be to use high voltage AND magnetism crosswise throught the flowing electrolyte.
Please let me know any good ideas you have as I'm gonna try the ion separating aswell
regards
Dutchy
-
Hi dutch
Take a look at this link it explains the problems with the HV approach in simple language.
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99264.htm
I normally like HV but I am thinking in this case the magnetic may be better after all.
!!! Jury still out!!!
I will take a look at the patent posted above.
If you get a chance let me know about the other info you have.
Thanks gsm
-
Well,
Getting back to frequency and HHO!
I would call this a "Must Read"
Michael John Nunnerly's work
More here > http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o.html
The plot thickens!!
Chet
Ps
HHMMmm...
It says the file is to big?
anyhow Page 3 at the thread "slovania" is updating a pdf
On a regular basis.
-
Fellahs
I hope your keeping an eye on this!
Getting equipment lists ,the whole maggilla!
This ain't gonna be conventional electrolysis!
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o-6.html
Chet
-
Mabe someone has posted this link already.
It is about an oriental that makes watergas and run a motor with it.
http://www.examiner.com/breakthrough-energy-in-national/ohmasa-gas-makes-water-as-fuel-more-feasible
-
Yes, the Ohmasa-gas link has been posted earlier in this forum, but deserves another look at,
since it again stresses the importance of not only projecting high effect pulsed EM fields
into the NAOH-solution, but also align the frequencies employed with the resonance of the
material that we want to excite.
IT IS ALL ABOUT RESONANCE INTERACTION ON THE MOLECULAR OR ATOMIC LEVEL.
Chris and his fellows must have hit the right nodes needed to free the molecular bonds.
The 5 Watts employed by those guys indicates this, since you need thousands of watts to separate water
by HF raw power like in the RF method invented by John Kanzius.
Dale Pond emphasizes this in his work "Sympathetic Vibratory Physics" where he talks about the fundamental
dynamical principle and that every vibrating entity in the universe from atoms to galaxies is activated by this principle.
They each and all vibrate and oscillate perpetually at their own given sympathetically inter-linked frequency powered
by this dynamically balanced interchange of syntropic and entropic forces. The connecting link is of course sympathetic association,
absorption and response as resonant (continuous rhythmic or period) motion.
It is the veritable wheelwork of nature to which Nikola Tesla said we would eventually hook our machinery.
So it is all about exciting the relative vibrational energy level of the elements in question , in our case the Na+ and OH- ions to an
vibrational energy level that allows for the split into hydrogen and oxygen.
When talking about energy levels, we are not talking about the conventional concept of energy, which in my opinion is
a misunderstanding of what energy really is.
Real energy is the index of vibration creating the standing waveform that decides the type of matter projected into being.
There is no such thing as solid matter. It is all patterns of standing waves projected and interacting in our Universe,
thereby creating what we experience as matter.
Therefore it is all about interaction of vibration in the form of resonance interaction.
Since the frequencies projecting matter into being are far beyond the Planck scale, neither mankind or any other intelligent being
in Universe will ever be able to directly influence these frequencies, but it is still fully possible to tune into the spectra of resonance
frequencies related to each element.
It is all about resonance, no matter what area of OU we are dealing with.
Hit the right frequency dynamics in regard to the responding element and we are striking home.
It is quite obvious to me that Chris have some serious problems in scoring the correct parameters himself,
since those guys really did not manage to pin those parameters down to a repeatable level.
That's why he wants to inspire us all here to help him regain what he has himself once experienced, but
unfortunately lost track of.
As a product developer in the coating industry I know very well how easy the parameters are lost when
stumbling on an unexpected effect, and then trying to backtrace to what parameters actually was involved.
It's a typical Murphys law, when you hit it, you are most likely to do it accidentally when least in control
of the parameters involved.
So you may do your experiments without taking interacting resonance into consideration, but I am afraid this will be
taxing on the inspiration of this project in the long run, and make people give up too easy.
Low energy resonant magnetolysis is fully possible, and we will make it sooner or later.
Gwandau
-
Hello all,
I have been trying to follow this link along with a couple others. Been away for a while and trying to get caught back up. Can you guys fill me in on your successes so far? Most of the talk is somewhat beyond my skill level. I would like to run a system for a home furnace to replace natural gas. I hope this new magnetolysis will be able to do it safely. Thanks!!!!
-
Mark ,
The more we look ,the more interesting this becomes!
Still nothing close to a replication has been shown,
But ,Chrie Hunter claims it can be done ,and he has done it,
Before Kanzious!
So shall we!!
Some fellows over here, getting ready to through an ax at the wall![the front gate to the fortress of oil]
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6431-none-electrolytic-splitting-h2o-6.html
Page 3 of the thread has an ongoing pdf update by "Slovenia"
Chet
PS
And yes home heating would be nice!!
PPS
@Gwandau
YES!!
-
And our friend Farrah [being serious here]
Is sharing a lot of her understanding [and science :o]
Here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=2584ea08c04a7770581c844896609848&topic=389.msg5786;topicseen#msg5786
It should help understand where we have been ,and
Where we are going!![the name of this thread]
Chet
-
SSOOOoooooo............
Mr. Hunter,
Hows things?,good I hope!
Chet
-
Well, well, well,
Mr. Hunter,looks like you are going to have some SERIOUS competishy in that electric motor bizzness
YEP
Got a fella from up in canada ,says he can eat you for breakfast,pull your D8 20 motor monster Mud flingin beasty
SIDEWAYS, with one foot tied behind his back[excelerater foot]
YEP
You better remember how to make that Gas ,so's you can put that in the D8 too [like nitrous]
Any how have a look 2700%[and counting] OU!
Replication info being gathered for a supervised[by the inventer] replication!
The Thane Heinz, AKA Boom Boom ,CrankyPants, Man Zilla
I can Do 2700% [to infinite] OU, What can you do info?
JUST POSTED DOCUMENTS
Right here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=443
and he is available for Input and replication here
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7833.new
Chet
Ps
His phone number is in the Zip file[you two should talk]
PPS
What About that Gas??
-
WoW,
Disassociation of the water molecule!!
Is that a Mayonaise JAR!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKqs5z2DrCk
Farrah's gonna be talking about this here!!
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=389.msg6184;topicseen#msg6184
HHMMM.......
actually being Discussed here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6637-electrolysis-accelerator.html
-
Sig
Yes I have lit the output gas without a lid on the cell and completely blew apart the (plastic) container.
I will never do that again. The "milky looking water "as you describe it, is made up of a huge amount
of oxygen/hydrogen bubbles that are miniscule in size as compared to the bubbles produced with
a cell running in normal conditions...the cell appears to be supersaturated with escaping bubbles,
and as fast as they leave the cell...they cant leave fast enough.
Lamere
I appreciate your observations, but the plate resonance is not acoustic and the ions do not move back and forth.
The movement occurs along the magnetic field lines. You can visibly see that, but not in the vid clip
..because of the poor quality resolution of the vid.
Seb
The electrodes are martensitic ss ..and must be so for obvious reasons.The accelerator itself is a monstrously powerful
industrial AC/DC E-core electromagnet. The one in the vid has a pull strength of just under a half ton (963 lbs).
Its operates at 7.5 amps at 120 volts AC. The variac transformer regulates 0-140 volts AC and is rated for 7.5 amps output
and is required for 3 reasons. Firstly, to regulate the rate of acceleration, secondly to keep my glass test cells from smashing.
I went thru a dozen glass jars because they simply cant handle an instant start-up at 120 volts. The magnetic force is too great.
A regular properly-built (non glass) cell works just fine at instant full power. And thirdly, to watch the dynamics that visibly occur
at different voltages. The amp draw of the cell is not at all affected at any time.. with or without the electromagnet.
Yes 60hz is correct...but that has no bearing on the resonance of the plates. Resonance is caused by, and is dependant on,
the strength of the electromagnet, which is driven by the current as more voltage is applied to it. That is why this is so simple.
...But for anyone unfamiliar with a voltage regulator, you can get away without one with a well-built cell.
Silver
You may be partially correct but I really wont be discussing anything about what is actually happening unless its
with those who have also built one for themselves. There are things going on in the cell that I haven't mentioned,
that are just fantastic to see, but I would be quite happy to answer any questions as to how to make one.
.................................................. ..
Since this vid, I am using a much differently configured cell and electromagnet which is a bit more complicated,
but my very first one consisted of 2 ss screws in a Crazy Glue container with a small toriod AC electromagnet.
Anyone can make one of those.
But let me go on record ...I am not claiming anything ..I'm sharing it.
If no one finds it interesting ..I will quietly disappear..so fire away.
Mookie
-
ALL RIGHT !! THIS IS WHERE YOU BETTER BE LOOKING
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6637-electrolysis-accelerator.html
CHRIS HUNTER
Is this who I think it is?
THE FREAKING GAME CHANGER !!!!!
Chet
-
I am watching......
-
@All
I don't know the details but it is possible to design an AC
electromagnet coil that attracts ferrous metal but does cause
it to vibrate very much. They do this in AC activated relays.
Most likely Lenz Law plus phase shift. I would expect they would
design AC metal attracting electromagnets this same way. Some
vibration may leak through with a very powerful electromagnet.
Also vibration could be enhanced by injecting/modulating a
secondary signal waveforms on top of the bulk 60Hz carrier.
:S:MarkSCoffman
-
Well CAVITATION is what some peeps [Farrah] think is going on.
And I have to say "Its a definate maybe"
Mookie is helping replicators here,
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/6637-electrolysis-accelerator.html
And Farrah will be doing a replication here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=389.msg6216;topicseen#msg6216
And just incase you forgot what Cavitation in water can do
Its called Overunity, yeah a pretty big word!
Things like 5000 degrees celsius
And Sonoluminescence
Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKPrGxB1Kzc
Wouldn't that be a blast if what Chris Hunter did was really CAVITATION!
I think my head is gonna explode!!!
Chetkremens@gmail.com
PS
Quarktoo where are you??
-
Ramses, still awake? Damn, all those big words... I bet they influence you?
Watch out, I think your head is going to explode....
No no, don't you worry.... You'll be just fine.
-
spinner
this one will be good to watch buddy!!
Chet
Also Farrah's opinion on what is happening with Mookie's cell
Farrah
Quote:
As a consequence of Mookie employing his time and effort in experimenting with electrolysers and magnetism, he has recently afforded me a ‘Eureka!’ moment.
Though my interpretations of what is occurring differ vastly to that of Mookie’s own interpretations, I still have Mookie to thank for demonstrating the effect in the first place, and providing me with a new insight and indeed a new avenue to explore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKqs5z2DrCk
Though I have stated much of my thoughts on the Dissociation of the Water Molecule thread, I want to reiterate my thoughts here before I go into detailing my planning, designing and indeed fabricating of a new cell based on what I… think I know.
Firstly, I believe the phenomenon we are witnessing is due to cavitation, and this is what I think is happening in Mookie’s set up.
He has stainless steel electrodes in a glass jar of water doped with a small amount of KOH. This simple electrolyser is powered by a stabilised dc PSU from a PC, and is using the 12volt terminals. Close to the glass jar electrolyser he has a powerful industrial electromagnet.
When he attaches the 12v PSU, normal electrolysis takes place. When he also powers up the electromagnet, the magnetic field produced by the dc current flowing through the electrolyser interacts with the powerful magnetic field of the electromagnet. The electromagnet, being mains powered is hence running at 50 – 60Hz albeit via a variac. This 50 – 60Hz mains frequency causes the electrodes to oscillate at this given frequency, applying more voltage simply increases the amplitude of the oscillations. Below a certain amplitude, little or no cavitation is in evidence, but up the voltage and the effect eventually displays itself.
One minor area of contention is that Mookie says it won’t work with stainless steel electrodes that are NOT magnetic. Well, obviously magnetic electrodes will be influenced into vibrating far easier – or greater - than non-magnetic electrodes, but I personally doubt that this is a critical factor. If this were a critical factor, then cavitation and hence evolving gases would surely be evident when the electromagnet was powered up near the electrolyser, even without the electrolyser itself being powered. This does not seem to be the case. Now, there is some visual motion of the water that suggests that the plates might indeed be oscillating via the electromagnet and without the electrolyser being powered, but not to such a degree that initiates cavitation. However, as yet it is unclear as to whether or not the glass jar is in physical contact with the electromagnet, and if this is the case then this observation could be simply a result of the electromagnet itself physically vibrating and nothing to do with its magnetic field.
The magnetic field of the electromagnet is proportional to the current flowing through it, which itself is proportional to the applied voltage, so reducing the voltage on the variac correspondingly reduces the current and hence the magnetic field.
There is quite a lot to explore here before designs can be optimised. We first need to know if certain frequencies are more efficient than others in this process and what works best. What would happen if the electrolyser voltage was also pulsing? AC might not produce normal electrolysis, but would cavitation efficiency rise or reduce… would AC work at all?
If Fleming’s right hand rule is a key factor, how do we go about designing an electrolyser that best exploits this rule?
I sense some fun and interesting times lie ahead.
Edit: I keep referring to Fleming's right hand rule, but actually Fleming's left hand rule may be more applicable here. The right hand rule is known as the generator rule whereas the left hand rule is known as the motor rule. Either way I feel Fleming's rules may play an important role here.
Last Edit: 2010-11-01, 20:27:55 by Farrah Day
from here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg6213;topicseen#msg6213
-
Some more from Mookie
Mookie Quote:
As far as output I need to be cautious in what I say. This "accellerator" is based on Felix Ehrenhaft's work in the 1930's. His experiments, and those who briefly followed up on it demonstrated a tenfold to 15x increase in the electrolysis rate. I have no way to properly measure that, but can confirm from my own experiments that the increase has to be at least ten times.The effect, as I said earlier, is obvious, dramatic and ferocious.
I assure you, firsthand, that the work that those that are doing this in a much more advanced way than what I have described here
will never see the light of day.
----------------------------------
A replication is happening here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg6213;topicseen#msg6213
-
Another replicator [and a good one]
"vrand"
at the same link
I believe the link I posted above may require "login"
I did not know that and will be posting a link that does not require "membership" soon.
Mean while
Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #8 on: Today at 15:31:17 »
vrand
Quote:
Thanks Farrah Day for starting this thread and thanks RAMSET for pointing to this forum.
As you probably read over at EF I plan on reproducing Mookie's experiment and purchased the same electromagnet he used. My first setup will be to attach steel bars to the 3 legs of the EM about 10" long. Then attach to the steel bars 16 ga 430 ss plates, 3" x 7" in between the 3 bars. The spacing of the 16 ga plates will be in the area of 1/16" to 1/8". Will try to get to 1/16" spacing so as to fit as many plates as possible between the steel bars as possible. All of this will fit inside of a GE house filter housing, 4.5" ID x 10.5" tall. The bars will come in from the bottom of the housing as well as the DC wiring. Will use the 068 PWM to pulse 55 amps at 12 VDC, same as the Freddy Cell setup. Will coat the steel bars with a thin layer of epoxy to protect from the KOH electrolyte.
The GE housing is rated at 120 PSI and will test the cell to 60 PSI. This is also my test bed for the Freddy cell and the Zach West cell designs. That GE water fi;ter housingr is 1/2" thick wall clear acrylic so can see the bubble action as it happens. Will do time tests to fin out how long it takes to get to 60 PSI with pulsed DC vs. pulsed DC + EM. Will test the HHO gas in balloon float test and pop test.
The idea in this design is to move close to 100% of the EM "magnetic circuit" through the 430 ss plates. Mookie had a gap of close to 3/8" of an inch between his plates and the EM face, because of the glass wall thickness. That is a lot of wasted EM magnetic field. So the idea in this test setup is to use more of that magnetic field. Will find out if it works.
Mike R.
-
Link Update to replications!! [No Login required]
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg6234
Mookies work is based on this mans work, a post from
Torano
»QuoteAnyone reseaching Felix Ehrenhaft....
1845 Luigi Palmieri used his "palmieri circle" to split water using the Earths magnetic field.
Details of his experimental set up have obviously been shelved.
Theres a paper written about him,"The scientific life of Luigi Palmieri" by L Casertano , 1999,Vol 42 No 3. I tried the URL ,wasnt happening for me.
The book " Electricity" by Robert Ferguson ,1867 makes interesting reading if you can keep up with the Victorian language and conventional current. Takes your thinking pattern back 140 years, before the rules stepped in.
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=RukDAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=electrici
**you HAVE TO type in page number 200 to find the section on "Electricity induced by the magnetism of the earth" and Palmieri.
Both Faraday and Palmieri were alive at the time and these theories were accepted. This is before AC took off and all other options dumped, the 1882 edition is suited to AC,its a different book .
Palmieri predicted weather changes from measuring electrical disturbance similar to Subblefield,
His pioneer work lays foundation for alot of 'free energy' research using air core coils.
wiki has a bit of info but not much
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Palmieri
-
Ramset,
Mookies results is most certainly related to a phenomenon called Ohmasa gas generation.
Proffessor Ohmasa exites the water molecules through vibration to a point were any gas bubbles becomes microscopic,
just like the white gas cloud in the Mookie vid.
Sonoluminescence ? This phenomenon is easily identified by the light emitted.
Don´t think this is S.L.
Microscopic bubbles sounds more close to it, but this does not make it less interesting,
since there is yet a lot to understand in the realm of microscopic implosion effects.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Ohmasa_Gas_by_Japan_Techno_Co.,_Ltd.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUPE0Z9V82E
Additionally, Mookie stopped using glass jars for his cells long ago. They all got smashed
into pieces when putting the electro magnet into action. I would recommend anything but glass.
I went thru a dozen glass jars because they simply cant handle an instant start-up at 120 volts.
The magnetic force is too great. A regular properly-built (non glass) cell works just fine at instant full power.
I do not believe it matters if the vibrations are caused by sound or electromagnetic pulses,
since it is all about resonance.
Resonance is the key to every known physically observable event, since all matter is made of standing waves.
Gwandau
-
@Ramset,
This ought to tickle you. I just had a few minutes in the shop to try Mookies idea. I had thought that his method of adding magnetism to the water was very inefficient and indeed maybe it was not the magnetism at all but only the 60hz vibration created by his plates shaking. I dug out an old 3/4 hp. motor core and set it on the bench. Next I found a plastic container that would just push into the hole where the armature used to fit. Of course there was not one piece of stainless in the shop that was attracted to a magnet. Since another theory running through my mind was that eddy currents were shaking the plates I decided to press on anyway. My plates were 316 .032 x 2" by 3.5". I have some polyethylene tube sleeve which is an open diamond weave flexible mesh used to protect expensive machine tools or the threads on the ends of tubing. I used a piece of the mesh to space the plates about 1/16" apart. Just one plate then the mesh then the last plate wedged in the center of the plastic container which was sitting in the center of the motor core. I used 6 volts from a battery charger to the plates. Filtered water and small amount of sodium hydroxide. I used a variac to power the motor core. With the variac at 50 volts a piece of alum or steel held in the core would vibrate at 60 hz. With the plates energized I slowly turn up the variac to full 120 vac. Only the tiny stream of bubbles that you would expect came to the surface. There was no difference with the magnetism or not. Which is what Mookie said would happen.
Then I stuck a 1"x1"x3" ceramic magnet in the container and the magnet promptly stuck to the motor core. This time there was a difference with the variac on full but not as pronounced as in the video. Next I pulled out the magnet and the plates. Then I stuck a magnet onto each plate. Magnet,plate,mesh,plate,magnet like a sandwich. Back into the water to retest.
This was the real deal. With partial power the water boiled throughout its volume with millions of tiny bubbles. The surface was instantly covered with a mass of foam. No! I did not attempt to light it. I will later outside with a long flaming stick. The proverbial ten foot pole. My opinion at this early date is that it is just vibration. It is well worth pursuing and I will tomorrow.
Garry
-
Garry
Holy Crap!!
Consider me tickled,
Chaloopa says you get a free car wash!!
You Da Man!!
Chet
-
Sent Chris Hunter an E mail today
Sir
Have you been following?
------------
No. I have been working on an advanced platform transport drive. Skunkworks. Too much time spent working with a scanning electron microscope.
That....and winning $10K again from the Arctic Innovation Competition on Friday.
Chris
------------------------
Such a show off!!
Good for you Bud!!
Chet
PS'Gwuandau
Farrah has addressed Ohmasa Gas At her thread
here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg6213;topicseen#msg6213
Or it might have been on her Dissasociate the molecule thread?
-
Hey Chet, what is the chance after you get your replication working that you try to used the stainless mesh in a second experiment? I am thinking that the more surface area and allowing the molecules to flow through the stainless as it is resonating will really get them excited.. Let me know what you think..
Mark
-
Once again I put out the call!!
This will be an OPEN SOURCE replication!!
Chris Hunter's {Felix Ehrenhart's]
And now MOOKIE'S
Magnetolysis
Luigi Palmieri deserves recognition as the original pioneer utilising magnetism for electrolysis . [1830]
ALL WILL BE SHARED. ALL!!
This is some really exciting stuff folks and I hope to see it put in simple enough terms ,so that all will be able to see this for themselves,the more replicators the faster we get to the goal!!
@Mark,
This opens A whole new door ,well reopens an old door that somebody shut 80 years ago,
I think we'll figure a way to make that heater buddy!!
At least bring it into the realm of "plausible".
We shall see??
Chet
PS speaking of heat,
Garry be careful with that!! the whole solution could
POP not just the vapor!![Or it coul;d just go PHFfiiit]
Better use a 20 foot pole or get one of these[blast chamber]
looks like Smoosh and me are gonna "GET BUSY"
Thats the blast chamber in her claw.
-
Another replicator [and a good one]
"vrand"
at the same link
I believe the link I posted above may require "login"
I did not know that and will be posting a link that does not require "membership" soon.
Mean while
Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #8 on: Today at 15:31:17 »
vrand
Quote:
Thanks Farrah Day for starting this thread and thanks RAMSET for pointing to this forum.
As you probably read over at EF I plan on reproducing Mookie's experiment and purchased the same electromagnet he used. My first setup will be to attach steel bars to the 3 legs of the EM about 10" long. Then attach to the steel bars 16 ga 430 ss plates, 3" x 7" in between the 3 bars. The spacing of the 16 ga plates will be in the area of 1/16" to 1/8". Will try to get to 1/16" spacing so as to fit as many plates as possible between the steel bars as possible. All of this will fit inside of a GE house filter housing, 4.5" ID x 10.5" tall. The bars will come in from the bottom of the housing as well as the DC wiring. Will use the 068 PWM to pulse 55 amps at 12 VDC, same as the Freddy Cell setup. Will coat the steel bars with a thin layer of epoxy to protect from the KOH electrolyte.
The GE housing is rated at 120 PSI and will test the cell to 60 PSI. This is also my test bed for the Freddy cell and the Zach West cell designs. That GE water fi;ter housingr is 1/2" thick wall clear acrylic so can see the bubble action as it happens. Will do time tests to fin out how long it takes to get to 60 PSI with pulsed DC vs. pulsed DC + EM. Will test the HHO gas in balloon float test and pop test.
The idea in this design is to move close to 100% of the EM "magnetic circuit" through the 430 ss plates. Mookie had a gap of close to 3/8" of an inch between his plates and the EM face, because of the glass wall thickness. That is a lot of wasted EM magnetic field. So the idea in this test setup is to use more of that magnetic field. Will find out if it works.
Mike R.
Thanks Chet, keep up the good work in posting info on this very interesting technology. More experiments are needed.
Even trying out different configurations, like adding magnets, that Garry did in his experiment today. The more data points we have the better we can understand what is happening. For example Farrad mentions that the glass touching the electromagnet, shaking the jar, might be the cause of the bubbles. Garry's data disproves that theory with his plastic container inside the 3/4 hp stator windings setup.
We know from Mookie that the "bang" strength of the gas was good. When Garry reports back on his gas bubbles flame test that gives us more data.
Also Garry used non-magnetic ss backed with magnets and it still produced lots of gas where Mookie indicated only non-magnetic ss would work.
So there are a lot of new data being generated from every experiment, no matter if it is not exactly what Mookie showed on his original video.
Its, experiment, experiment, experiment, to get, data, data, data.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
Sherlock Holmes
Mike R.
-
Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #30 on: Today at 11:00:27 »
HHHmmmm.................
Mookie Quote:
Yes I have lit the output gas without a lid on the cell and completely blew apart the (plastic) container.
I will never do that again. The "milky looking water "as you describe it, is made up of a huge amount
of oxygen/hydrogen bubbles that are miniscule in size as compared to the bubbles produced with
a cell running in normal conditions...the cell appears to be supersaturated with escaping bubbles,
and as fast as they leave the cell...they cant leave fast enough
--------------------------------------
Yes I know he's making Gas any way in the Cell
Little Pops on top ?Yeah Thats what you get
BLOW UP THE WHOLE JAR?
NOT!!!
The more I read Mookie, The more I here Chris Hunter's Email from Anonymous Mayonaise Jar Man!![What I refer to him as at OU } When I saw the Mayo Jar in the vid I thought "NO WAY"!!
YEAH WAY
Holy Crap!!
Was getting ready to post this
LOOK AT THE TITLE CHRIS HUNTER PUT ON THE EMAIL
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FW: Electrolysis accelerator
InboxX
Alaska StarI know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I...
Aug 29
Alaska Star to me
show details Aug 29
I know you will post this for everyone to see, so for the person's privacy, I have blanked his name, and his email.
You have been seeking independent validation of various theories that I came up with, and successful replication. The person I have been conversing with will probably see this and shoot me, but he, like me, would rather stay out of the public forums and the stew-pot of feces that is found there.
Like I stated from the beginning, this is, has been, and always will be far simpler than you can imagine. You have always the option of making it super complicated.
Now I was asked a question regarding his build and his design with a stumbling block, and I answered his problem, which has relevance to what you are working on, for that is the only reason I am sharing it with you. Keep in mind that my non-participation in the forum and his non-participation in the forum is not something that says that I am hiding anything. This guy has the brains enough to figure it out, for all it's simplicity, and use it.
How hard can it be?
So, I am sharing this with you in confidence that it would not be twisted around, but the knowledge gained and applied, proven, can be used to teach others, so that they my indeed understand such simple concepts.
Chris
From: ***************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: Electrolysis accelerator
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 11:42:08 -0400
Hi again Chris,
Hope your project has moved a few more steps forward since last time. Stay with it.
Since your reply, I took your suggestions and was able solve my electrical issue. It enabled me to be able to finally test
for much longer periods of time. That allowed me to take things even further. Thanks Chris ..you got me out of a rut.
Those stator magnets were very strong, and the effect dramatic as I said before, but it led me to conclude
that I needed something with an even greater magnetic capability.
Since then, I was able to pick up a powerhouse industrial electromagnet, that at 12 volts has a lifting strength of 889 lbs ( nearly half a ton ! )
and is designed to operate at either 12DC, 24 DC or 120 AC, with lukewarm heat at best at full power. With a variac I'm able to run it
anywhere from 10 AC to 140 AC without a problem. Weighs a whopping 7 lbs. Cost me $60 and has a magnetic field that extends nicely.
At 12 volts DC it sticks to metal like its welded, and a simple PWM takes care of the regulation.
If you're looking for one or two for any reason, let me know ..I have a great supplier.
The accelerating effect on electrolysis is monstrous using this magnet. I'm purposefully using mason jars for testing, so that I can
visually see what's going on, but the pull is so strong that I'm continually breaking jars. I should be able to overcome that pretty simply
with a different plate assembly configuration.
Thanks again Chris. When I'm done I'll upgrade my internet service so that I can send you a video clip (for your eyes only).
..............................
Incidentally..While doing some lurking I see that you are being invited to join a discussion forum. For your sake, I hope you don't take the bait.
It will only lead you to frustration and argument and a huge waste of your time dealing with people who's only goal is to be King of the Castle.
Just by reading what's in those forums, you can see that there's nothing new to learn from people who are still just talking in the same circles.
You've been there before and have been around long enough to know that most people only want something for nothing.
Take the bait..and you'll lose another year.
----- Original Message -----
From: Alaska Star
To: *****************@*************.com
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: RE: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Hey! Yes I have my voice back, and I have been quite busy. Building an electric car from scratch by designing the motor, the battery management, speed controller, etc all from scratch.
Ok, to keep the stator coils from frying up, you need to observe Kirschoff's Law and the Laws of Thermodynamics. These are so important that you will soon learn the most valuable lesson in circuit design.
I will start with a simple circuit because keeping it simple is important.
We have a power source (can be AC or DC) and we have a Coil. Now this coil is nothing more than a length of wire, and this length of wire can be 1 inch long or it can be 1 mile long, it doesn't matter. What would happen if I put a 10 inch length of wire across the terminals of a car battery? Gets quite hot quite quickly! Now, let's put a heat device in series with this wire, like a light bulb.
So we insert a light bulb which is 90% heat and 10% light in series with your coil. Now the coil becomes passive and is a conductor and an inductor, and we observe the laws of thermodynamics. How? For every hot side there's a cold side. Equal and opposite reaction. So if the cold side of the circuit is desired to be the coils, then we need something to get hot so the coils stay cold. The energy has to go someplace.
Now if we put a large ballast resistor in series with your coil (I prefer the tube type carbon pile ballast resistors because I can run a cooling pipe through it to a radiator to cool it down) then it will allow enough current to flow to generate the magnetic field you need without messing with the frequency. If you use a light bulb, you will be restricted by the amount of current that can flow through the tungsten element. A large resistor is designed to carry current but convert energy to heat in a specific location, which would be wherever you want that heat to be located.
Now if you want to go a step further....put your 2 plates in series with the coil, where the power flows THROUGH the water to get to the coil, and the resistance of the water will keep the coil cold, but it will self regulate from the gaseous resistive barrier that builds on the plates from the hydrogen and oxygen.
I hope this helps, and please if you could, let me know how it works for you, test results, etc.
Chris Hunter
ArcticTek.com
From: *******************@****************.com
To: alaskastar2000@hotmail.com
Subject: Electrolysis accelerator..any thoughts?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:14 -0400
Hey Chris
You probably don't remember me 'cause I only send you an email maybe once a year.
The first time was before you got sick...the last time was when you were getting your voice back.
Hopefully that's all behind you now, and you're back in some friggin' zone again.
If you remember, I'm not a member of any forum...just a lurker and a browser once in a while.
I'm stuck on something that maybe you can help me get around the stump. I've run hundreds of tests on this
and is the only area of electrolysis that I'm focused on. ..The effect of magnetism on the electrolysis process.
For the past year I've been playing with accelerating the electrolysis process using a couple of fair sized stator coils
(7.5 amp and 8.4 amp) with great success using straight 120 AC. ( No effect with DC). One has 4 coils and the other has two.
Both very powerful electromagnets. I've run them as conventional electromagnets as well as connecting the windings to have
the same magnetic pole facing in. Simple 2-plate martensitic ss electrodes are just fine as a cell for testing.
The acceleration process is monstrous running this way. You probably already know that a 15 to 20 times increase in the rate
would not be exaggerating. (I'd gladly send you a vid clip but my cable provider has me capped, so I cant do that )
As you probably know, you cant run a stator coil that way for much longer than 10 seconds or the windings will fry
with the conductive load, so I protect the windings with a 7.5 amp variac . The problem with that is the increase in acceleration
is very minimal running this way, and I can only run it at 7.5 amps at around 30 volts AC..
Anything you can think of anything (electrical or otherwise) that can add to this set up try to get around this?
Even if you don't have an answer for that ..any thoughts on a slightly different approach I might try with this?
Hope you're doing well.
------------------------
-
Another replication
Stevie1001
Pics and a vid too, haven't seen it yet,perhaps somebody can post it?
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
Chet
-
@all
I won't bore you with all the details leading here. I did not need a ten foot pole, I did not need a pole at all. I could not get the mix to spark, bang, whiz or fizz. Nothing, Nada, Zip. The mix looks like a half empty soda bottle that you have shaken for a minute and is about to bust. I ran experiments half the night and the magnetism is essential. I vibrated water from 0 to 120 hz. and no fizz. The stuff just has no bang. I have got other irons in the fire. The video was impressive so I tried it.
Garry
-
Thanks Garry!
Perhaps Take a look at the Vid from stevie 1001 above
I cannot view it yet or post it
Somebody??
Chet
-
Hi
I have looked at steve's video and it is clear there is an increase in production.
Mark
-
Mark
Garry saw an increase Too just PHFFITT no pop
I know Garry was doing a diferent experiment [non ferrous 300 series]
Does Stevie light it??
Before he starts to add the accelerator and after??
Show some kind of comparison??
Chet
PS
I am quite sure we will be hearing From Garry again Soon
He won't sleep till he knows!![cool Guy]
-
Hi Ramset,
no test of gas (flame) was just a short video of the output in an open container. It showed the bubbles before then after...you could hear the device kick in it was audiable.
I was interested in seeing Gary's post...was it running when he tested it?
Ultimately we have to see what the total gas out put is to energy consumed including powering the accelorator (magnet).
Lets hope some more results come in
Mark
-
Thanks Mark
Yes Good questions
Especially Is there a bigger "bang" with the accelerator On??
Chet
-
Steves responce for more info
Quotes from here
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
Posts: 2086
Re: Resonant waterfuelcell project by Steve
« Reply #33 on: Today at 18:17:05 »QuoteI can comment on the video, but not too much.
I made a promise to a certain person and i have to ask him permission before to give all details.
The Plates are SS430
Power to the plates: 5v by 1.3amps
AC magnetic field.
Tapwater with a drop of NAOH
Thats what Mookie said and thats what it is..
regards
SteveReport to moderator Logged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve
Administrator
Hero member
Posts: 2086
Re: Resonant waterfuelcell project by Steve
« Reply #34 on: Today at 18:19:01 »QuoteQuote from: yaro on Today at 16:44:21
Are you pulsing the magnetic field? Are your plates shaking?
Yes and yes
-
Steve made another movie
Here http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
I did some cross reading over most forums and some suggested that the gas of this system is not H, but just an air bubble.
Well....IT IS HYDROGEN GAS.
My ear is def on the leftside now....
Wanna convince yourselfs?
Watch my last video of this day. I am tired and i certainly need a Glenfiddisch..
Steve
------------------------------------
Steve is a great Guy !!
Thanks Bud
Chet
Ps
I Still haven't seen the movies but I'm sure they'll be good!
-
Steves responce to vrand's gratitude for the vid from here
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
Hi Vrand,
Thanks for the complements.
This setup with the pretty hugh space between the electrodes is just for proving a point. And it worked well. This way we all can observe the effects.
I am still experimenting on angles and see what will work best. For sure it is important to stay as close as possible to the magfield.
-
Well well welll
Mookie you are an amazing human being
Chris Hunter thank you too.
And stevie 1001[from here http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
well what can we say!!!
Mookie
quote:
This is my last post to the forum.[Energetic]
Last month I was offered a reasonable amount of money for the intellectual property rights to
a different version of this accelerator by an American research institute after demonstrating it to them.
No one knows me well enough to know what a relief it was for me to turn them down and remain a free man.
That is why I chose to make this earlier version public, here last week.
Have fun with it folks ..there is more to it than meets the eye.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................
Steve
You are a man of your word. I wish to publicly thank you for keeping this confidential for the past 6 months.
It is for that reason that I have dropped all communication with regards to my work with everyone,
and in future will communicate only with you, and my one trusted colleague and friend
that I told you about some time ago.
You are aware of the wonderful project I am working on. I will remotely stay in touch with you,
with regard to it's progress, as time permits.
My plane leaves tomorrow afternoon.
Mookie
-
My computer died yesterday right after I posted about the no effect effect. I tried to light the gas while the cell and accelerator were both running. First I used a ten foot pole with a flaming rag on it, then as I got braver and closer I stuck a match in to the space directly above the boiling water at least 5 times. No one is more shocked than me. The boiling must just be water vapor. What little hydrogen is generated is swamped by the water in the air above the cell.
I hope somebody has more luck than I did. I am conducting other experiments that are more promising in another field, this was just a side trail for me.
Garry
-
Once again I put out the call!!
This will be an OPEN SOURCE replication!!
Chris Hunter's {Felix Ehrenhart's [chummy with Einstein]
And now MOOKIE'S
Magnetolysis
Luigi Palmieri [chummy with Faraday]deserves recognition as the original pioneer utilizing magnetism for electrolysis . [1830]
ALL WILL BE SHARED. ALL!!
Replications will be posted in the replication thread!!
"""First actual replication with a vid and pics""
By Steve here http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1471.new.html#new
Vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlvnhJ78KZI
[img0110]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3T1fB1wFOo
0107
@Garry
Just for clarity
your attempt was not using the type 400 [magnetic]stainless ?
You used type 300??[non magnetic]
If you had no gas at all,it would seem that the cell wasn't making any HHO to start with??
were there any other deviations??
Thanks for sharing Buddy!!
Chet
PS
I bel;ieve this process is like Nitrous in an ICE[internal combustion engine].
Its an addendum to an existing Cell that makes it "FLY"
-
Hi Chet,
Is there a link to this video.
On looking at Steve's site, I think I don't get to see links and pics cause I have no account.
A link would be great.
Regards, Penno
-
Penno,
I'll try to get a link!
Chet
PS
If anyone here can post it that would be great!!
Until I get to a real Compu [probably saturday]
I won't be able to do it!
-
@Garry
Just for clarity
your attempt was not using the type 400 [magnetic]stainless ?
You used type 300??[non magnetic]
If you had no gas at all,it would seem that the cell wasn't making any HHO to start with??
@Chet
Slow down, take a deep breath. The cell is tiny like the mayonaise jar. It does make HHO. It has 316 -plates with a magnet on each side. It foams internally in the container just like the video. There is no HHO in the water OR else the container would be evenly distributed over these 3 acres. If you turn off the accelerator then you can make a tiny pop like always. I thought that would be plain...
Just try it. It won't take 20 minutes. The video leads you to believe that the bubbles in the cell are HHO and they may be if you use the correct stainless, but Mine are Not and based on what I've seen so far I wouldn't walk across the street for some magnetic plates. I truly hope I'm wrong, but at my typing speed I have spent more time
answering questions than working on something usefull.
Garry
Garry
-
Thanks Garry,
Sorry If I was assuming too much!
Mookie did say over at Energetic that this would be a No go with out 400 series!
Your Bubble deal is interesting !!
Thanks
Steve lighting the Gas during accellerated mode
Vid here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlvnhJ78KZI
[img0110]
Chet
-
Some advice to Garry and other replicators from Chris Hunter Today
Alaska Star to me
show details 2:56 PM (1 hour ago)
I finally got on to read the thread some more.
Tuning: have you ever tried to make 2 identical coils, same gauge wire, exact length of wire, number of wraps, etc....and then tried to tune them?
They will each have their own resonance.
They will never be identical no matter how hard you try.
Exacting plans are useless, and replication worthless if this basic tuning of coils concept is missing from the equation.
Just thought I would point that out so that people can collaborate with a bit more proficiency.
Also, the guy who had too much water vapor mixed...he needs to just run it through a condenser, cooling it down, allowing the water to drip out and the hydrogen to be separate.
Chris
-
I am including experiments that are relevant to Cavitation also.
From iquant,
Made my hair stand up!! turned me into one big goose bump!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0YBAhY2PQ
Lets just call this Inspiration!!
Cavitation
Suddenly the possibilities seem so logical !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06iCfowinUM
Me thinks we''ll be learning an awful lot this winter !
Or summer depending on which side of the rock you live on!!
Chet
-
Before getting too excited.
I've not found any cases where cavitation produces more gas... yet...
The examples I'm looking at are using ultrasonic agitation inducing cavitation.
Mookie and FarrahDay are looking at a magnetic implementation.
www.hielscher.com manufacture industrial ultrasonic equipment.
http://www.hielscher.com/ultrasonics/cavitat.htm is worth a quick read
A few of their videos are listed below.
Ultrasonic Cavitation in Water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkYtVjJGNRs
Ultrasonic Cavitation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oNZcLyCR_Q
Another interesting video:
I don't follow the science but the claim is burning water purely by ultrasonic oscillations...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4nSIOdKyKA
This guy used a ultrasonic pond fogger in an HHO setup measuring the gas production.
http://www.youtube.com/user/m3sca1#p/u/50/Hxtug3pIHlc
His results were no increase in gas... however, he had no way to tune his pond fogger.
There is a good chance no cavitation was actually occuring in his experiment.
A good experiment would be to replicate this experiment with Hielscher equipment.
I am including experiments that are relevant to Cavitation also.
From iquant,
Made my hair stand up!! turned me into one big goose bump!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR0YBAhY2PQ
Lets just call this Inspiration!!
Cavitation
Suddenly the possibilities seem so logical !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06iCfowinUM
Me thinks we''ll be learning an awful lot this winter !
Or summer depending on which side of the rock you live on!!
Chet
-
I've invited "Mile High" here to explain Science's View of Cavitation.
Chet
-
I've invited "Mile High" here to explain Science's View of Cavitation.
Chet
LOL ::)
-
Hows it going Wilby?
I don't understand whats really happening with the 5000 degree celsius and the sonoluminescence event
That a little "BUG" can do underwater any time he wants.
I understand its Cavitation,
I don't understand all that heat and sonoluminescence
Mile high said he knew,
It needs to be put here, so we all can know.
Chet
Ps Mile High started a thread here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=post;msg=6528;topic=413.0;sesc=54def3ea3e47946c1660c9d73054774c
-
Hows it going Wilby?
I don't understand whats really happening with the 5000 degree celsius and the sonoluminescence event
That a little "BUG" can do underwater any time he wants.
I understand its Cavitation,
I don't understand all that heat and sonoluminescence
Mile high said he knew,
It needs to be put here, so we all can know.
Chet
Ps Mile High started a thread here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=post;msg=6528;topic=413.0;sesc=54def3ea3e47946c1660c9d73054774c
hi chet, i'm good thanks for asking. i hope you are also well.
i used to have a mantis shrimp (odontactylus scyllarus) in one of my saltwater tanks, it hitched itself into my 5 gallon nano tank inside some live rock i got from vanuatu. killed 3 fish and left no trace (i would go to sleep with a live fish in the tank and wake up to nothing, no bits, no pieces) before i started to suspect what had happened. anyways, mantis shrimp can do the sonoluminescence thing and are much less annoying then a pistol shrimp (i have had those also, they will wake you up) you should get one and observe. they are easy to care for.
http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Animals/Archives/2005/Who-You-Callin-Shrimp.aspx
but i digress. it's like you snapping your fingers, except the duration of the shrimp's 'snap' is less than 1 millisecond... the temperature of the air bubble gets to be so high because it collapses. the snap creates a small pocket of air that rapidly collapses, and as the air inside the bubble contracts, its pressure and thus its temperature, go up. the bubble glows very brightly and is far, far hotter than the sun, but because it is only radiating for such a small amount of time, it is essentially giving off no power.
as an aside, in my opinion the mantis shrimp has the most fascinating eyes (hexocular vision) in the animal kingdom.
edit: good movie of a mantis strike and excellent description of how the shrimp stores up that much power, the strike and the resulting cavitation bubble.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/aprilholladay/2006-01-09-shrimp_x.htm
-
Wilby
Mantis shrimp scare me![The eyes :o}
I woudn't be able to sleep in the same room!
Thanks
Chet
-
Wilby
Mantis shrimp scare me![The eyes :o}
I woudn't be able to sleep in the same room!
Thanks
Chet
naw, they are very intelligent... i was able to hand feed mine after a bit.
-
Wilby
Quote:
i was able to hand feed mine after a bit.
------------------------
AAHHHhh
Like the spider and the Web,she is setting you up for the
CHOMP.
She thinks you taste like chicken!:}
Chet
-
Wilby
Quote:
i was able to hand feed mine after a bit.
------------------------
AAHHHhh
Like the spider and the Web,she is setting you up for the
CHOMP.
She thinks you taste like chicken!:}
Chet
LOL! naw, i don't think it was interested in troll meat. ;)
i wasn't anymore scared than i would be feeding the dog from my hand. you can train them...
-
here is the scientific explanation chet: brief guide to sonoluminescence (http://physics.open.ac.uk/~swebb/briefguide.htm)
tell milehigh to quit making assumptions based upon a youtube video...
-
Thanks wilby
We'll take a look!!
They say trolls taste like chicken !:}
{something every "Mantis" knows]
@ All ,got this From iquant
Have a look at the following paper when you get some time.
Ultrasonically-excited electrolysis Experiments at Energetics
Technologies:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/DardikIultrasonic.pdf
Experimental results and discussion of 3 electrolysis cells with built in ultrasonic transmitters to induce cavitation in the electrolyte.
A significant amount of excess heat was generated and a very large COP was obtained in several experiments.
Largest excess power: 34 watts
Largest excess energy: 3.5MJ
Largest COP: 3000%
Longest duration of excess heat in a single experiment: 40 days
-
Gotta read this folks!
Wilby's link
http://physics.open.ac.uk/~swebb/briefguide.htm
Chet
-
Well, well, well
A surprise "TOP Shelf" entry into the fray!!
"AllCanadian "
This is VERY COOL!!
Post from here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=399.msg6577;topicseen#msg6577
Re: Mookie's Electrolyser Accelerator
« Reply #99 on: Today at 16:32:53 »
@FarrahDay
Quote
At this stage I'm honestly unsure as to whether or not the bubbles in Mookie's viideo are simply pockets of water vapour that evolve due to the breaking of the water tension which is creating low pressure areas within the liquid, but it does seem rather odd that a certain threshold needs to be reached before this happens.
Allcanadian
Responce,
Cavitation would certainly go someway to explaining a lot of past claims, but it still remains to be shown that the gases are hydrogen and oxygen or free radicals rather than just bubbles of water vapour.
I would agree, the only facts we have at the moment is the fact that we have none as such I have put a few other builds on hold and begun putting this device together as we speak. I seem to have this compulsive and somewhat childish need to build damn near everything I am uncertain about which keeps me on my toes I guess. Im not entirely sure cavitation is occuring here but we will know one way or another soon enough.
Regards
AC
-
Here is a link to an interesting published scientific paper:
An Investigation on the Net Charge on Gas Bubbles Induced by 0.75 MHz under Standing Wave Condition
http://www.jtaphys.org/archive/Volume2/Number2/4.pdf
Sonoluminescence has been attributed by some authors to compression of gas inside collapsing acoustically induced cavities (or even to pulsation violent stable cavities). This adiabatic compression is believed to raise the temperature of the gases by up to 10,000 K which radiate in the visible spectrum. An alternative explanation has been proposed by others as: the changes in charge density on bubble surface during compression leads to electrical discharge (in microscopic scale) and they believe to that this process causes emission of light from the cavity. In this work we report on the measurement of the net charge induced acoustically on the bubble by means of the motion of bubbles in distilled water while an external electric field applied. The motion of the bubbles is recorded on a photographic film during 1 second exposure hence the stationary bubbles appear as points and moving bubbles as lines. The radius of the bubble and hence the bubble charge can be estimated from the velocity of bubble provided by the length of the line.
The photographs and conclusion were on point with claims that cavitating bubbles have a negative charge except in their discussion they appear to question their results...
I'm finding more and more recent papers regarding microbubble cavitation phenomena both in the scientific and medical communities (ultrasonic lipo and body sculpting).
Potential of Microbubbles in Aqueous Solutions: Electrical Properties of the Gas−Water Interface
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jp0445270
This study investigated the potential of microbubbles in aqueous solutions and revealed that the bubbles were negatively charged under a wide range of pH conditions. The potential was positive under strong acidic conditions, and the inorganic electrolytes decrease the potential by increasing the amount of counterions within the slipping plane. OH- and H+ are crucial factors for the charging mechanism of the gas−water interface, while other anions and cations have secondary effects on the potential, because counterions are attracted by the interface charge.
Evidence that ultrasonically-induced microbubbles carry a negative electrical charge: (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TW2-46SXR3V-15&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F1992&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=browse&_origin=browse&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=35a63ccb4fdc5916f293da0038a0c835)
The abstract states they estimate the field to be about 7 × 105 V m−1
Unfortunately, this is all new territory for me forcing me to resort to the Chet-n-paste method to articulate:
SWAG on the chemistry is courtesy of Farrah Day:
2Na + 2H2O = 2NaOH + H2
While the hydrogen rises out of the solution, the sodium hydroxide produced will remain in the water forming ions 2Na+ and 2OH-.
Now of course, because this seems to be unknown territory, the chemistry is somewhat unclear and very debatable, but consider this scenario.
A head on collision between a sodium ion Na+ and a hydroxyl ion, OH-… what would happen? What if the energy of the collision was such that the sodium ion temporarily took the electron from the hydroxyl ion?
Na+ + OH- = Na + H + O
Or balanced in favor of molecular gases
2Na+ + 2OH- = 2Na + 2H + 2O
In this scenario we now have highly reactive pure sodium metal in the water, which will instantly react with a water molecule to form sodium hydroxide and in doing so release more hydrogen.
2Na + 2H2O = 2NaOH + H2
The sodium will always remain in the solution, but the water content will gradually reduce as it is dissociated and evolves as gases.
The process outlined above relies on the sodium ion collecting an electron from somewhere in order to become an atom.
There are no electrodes from which to do this and we know anyway that H3O+ reacts ahead of Na+ in a normal electrolyser, so it would have to be taken from a –ve ion already within the solution.
My SWAG is this -ve ion comes from ultrasonically induced cavitation of micro bubbles.
Maybe instead of electrolysis we might be able to produce H2 by inducing the Na - H20 exothermic reaction by ultrasonic agitation of super saturated NaOH. No electrolysis, no magnetic induction.. just low power ultrasonic transducers...
Of course this is all just SWAG for now... Thought I'd throw this out for discussion and feedback before rolling up my sleeves.
-
iquant and everybody going for tests in this intriguing area of HHO generation,
PLEASE DO NOT GET LOST IN PARTICULARS.
IT IS ALL ABOUT RESONANCE.
Both sonoluminescence and cavitation are the direct result of vibrations resonating all the way down to the atomic level.
Even HHO production in ordinary electrolysis is induced at the Planck scale by atomic resonance effects.
Do not get too hung up on contemporary electrochemical explanations of electrolysis.
Those explanations will in a near future be regarded as misleading and totally off the track.
The more energy used in creating HHO, the less important are the settings, since the abundance of electric
and electromagnetic fields created will INEVITABLY hit the resonating target somewhere by the pure overdose.
Conventional electrolysis is such an overdose method.
The trick is to strike the correct relative value of vibration corresponding to the value of vibration that are
keeping the H2O molecules together.
The wavelength and frequency has to relate to the dimensional values of the target material, in this case H2O.
By creating this resonance we will simply open the door with a key instead of forcing it open with brute energy overdose.
Fred Wells creates 59 litres HHO per minute by employing the correct distance between the electrodes in regard
to the frequency of the pulse expressed in his HHO-cell.
No matter what method we will chose, with or without metal electrodes, with or without NaOH, it is all about resonance.
This resonance may be achieved by ultrasonic methods, or by PWM:s, or by correct frequency of ANY vibrational source.
SO PLEASE DO NOT GET LOST IN PARTICULARS.
If anyone else here have reached the same understanding as I, please contact me and let's arrange an organised series
of tests this winter. As a product developer I am well aware of the massive series of initial tests needed to even
begin to understand the basic parameters of resonance at the molecular and atomic level.
gwandau@hotmail.com
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You are missing the point and the approach: I'm talking closed cell H2 production (No O).
SWAG and brute force can only take you so far... Lets get the science, chemistry and particulars right.
Identify experiments to hash out grey areas of our present knowledge, theories and understandings.
This isn't rocket science... Simple repeatable experiments so all can validate and move forward together one step at a time.
iquant and everybody going for tests in this intriguing area of HHO generation,
PLEASE DO NOT GET LOST IN PARTICULARS.
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iquant,
I'm probably using the word "particulars" wrong, since this isn't my native language.
And I'm in no way opposing your suggestions and ideas.
I just wan't to emphasize that it all boils down to resonance.
Closed cell H2 production or whatever road you want to take, it's all the same basic event behind it.
Resonance isn't a small niche in the physics of our universe, it one of the main characteristic of matter.
I´m sorry if this sounds like rocket science, since I want to keep it as simple as possible, but ordinary
chemistry and electromagnetic science is not enough when entering this area of experiments.
Conventional science will only be in your way here. If low energy production of H2 or/and O was explainable
by common science, it would have been known to science long ago.
We have to think outside the box here.
That was really all I wanted to say.
Gwandau
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iquant
you rollin up the sleeves??
Where are you going to focus? any ideas?
I would like to try also?
Have a few extra dollars coming in soon[for materials and equipment] ,and I hope some time to play!
Chet
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What would happen if we come up with a variable frequency crystal oscillator and insert the crystal in water and vary the frequency up and down a vast range of frequencies? Will the crystal vibrations cause any water molecules to break up? Any thoughts? I do also believe that vibrations is the answer to the solution of electrolysis. The entire universe is based on and sustained by vibrations. A very low input power to achieve what currently requires a great energy expenditure (conventional electrolysis).
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Depends on your approach: Electrolysis or Chemical H2 production:
Ultrasonic agitation is frequently used to speedup and control chemical reactions:
Checkout the following chemical H2 production methods:
NaH + H20 > http://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/28890pp2.pdf
Hydrogen is produced when the pellets are cut and immersed in water. The exposed NaH surface reacts with water, releasing hydrogen and forming sodium hydroxide (NaOH) as a byproduct.
NaOH + Al > http://pfc.org.in/fac/sept04.pdf
Production of hydrogen gas by reacting aluminum with water in the presence of sodium hydroxide as a catalyst.
Ammonia Borane: http://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/research/2010/100616VarmaHydrogen.html
Purdue researchers developed hydrothermolysis approach to release hydrogen from AB without catalysts.
Ultrasound-assisted electrolysis in NaOH solution for hydrogen generation
http://www.programmaster.org/PM/PM.nsf/ApprovedAbstracts/E4731A7BA8DFC935852577730067ECBB?OpenDocument
Water electrolysis in 0.4 M NaOH solution for hydrogen generation was carried out with ultrasound introduced through the anode. It was found that the cell voltage reduced by 150-250 mV in the current range of 20 mA to 40 mA with ultrasound frequency at 25.3 Hz. The cell operation became unstable when the cell current was larger than 75 mA with ultrasound. This reduction in cell voltage was due to removal of the gas bubbles on the electrode surface, which can be directly observed in the see-through cell of water electrolysis. Ultrasound with frequency of 33.3 Hz was also tried, but no better effect was obtained. The results suggest that ultrasound assisted water electrolysis can have potential in energy savings for hydrogen production.
A recent published paper on point to your question is:
Water electrolysis in the presence of an ultrasonic field (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TG0-4VK6NDH-3&_user=10&_coverDate=06%2F01%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1539831536&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=04c417d311a4b12a77b53f3e6b493528&searchtype=a)
The energy efficiency of water electrolysis has been considerably improved in the presence of an ultrasonic field. This was demonstrated by measuring the cell voltage, efficiency and energy consumption of the generated gas from the electrolysis. These measurements were carried out in alkaline solution using linear sweep voltammetry (LSV) and galvanostatic polarization techniques. A large reduction of the cell voltage was achieved under the ultrasonic field, especially at high current density and low electrolyte concentration. With the same current density, the cell voltage difference with and without the ultrasonic field fell as the concentration of the electrolyte was increased. The efficiency of H2 generation was improved at a range of 5–18% at high current density in the ultrasonic field but the efficiency of O2 generation fell a little due to the difference in the behavior of the gas bubbles. The energy saving for H2 production by using the ultrasonic field was about 10–25% for a certain concentration of the electrolyte when a high current density was used. On the other hand, the energy consumption for O2 production with and without the ultrasonic field was almost the same.
What would happen if we come up with a variable frequency crystal oscillator and insert the crystal in water and vary the frequency up and down a vast range of frequencies? Will the crystal vibrations cause any water molecules to break up? Any thoughts? I do also believe that vibrations is the answer to the solution of electrolysis. The entire universe is based on and sustained by vibrations. A very low input power to achieve what currently requires a great energy expenditure (conventional electrolysis).
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Chet,
I've setup a work bench at overunityresearch.com
Still formulating a sequence of experiments... Got some input from Farrah, Chris Hunter and others.
At this moment in time I'm focusing on chemical methods of producing H2 from concentrated NaOH solutions.
I've contacted Hielscher.com awaiting their equipment recommendations.
http://www.hielscher.com/ultrasonics/cavitat.htm
They have a comprehensive test lab available as these theories progress.
http://www.hielscher.com/image/flowchart_discrete_p1000.gif
Will kind of give you a picture of the initial setup:
Tank 2 = Supersaturated NaOH
Tank 1 = H20
I'm working on engaging the Suslick Research Group as they are experts in this field.
http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/~suslick/index.html
I don't believe the commercially available ultrasonic cleaners and humidifier/fogger equipment will do the trick.
At this stage we need the ability to adjust amplitude and frequencies: Speed of sound in water is 1500 m/s but in saturated NaOH its up near 2750 m/s.
The idea is fairly simple but requires proper equipment and a certain level of accredited expertise to document and validate the experiments in order to gain traction. I've searched the cache of scientific papers on the web and can not find any documented experiments trying this approach.
iquant
you rollin up the sleeves??
Where are you going to focus? any ideas?
I would like to try also?
Have a few extra dollars coming in soon[for materials and equipment] ,and I hope some time to play!
Chet
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iquant
VERY EXCITING!!,[your rolling up the sleeves!]
At the very least, This should be one of the things you will
see
"Meanwhile a spectacular phenomenon has been developing - a miniature merry-go-round of gas bubbles between the faces of the poles and parallel to them. Incapable of being shown adequately in a time exposure, the effect nevertheless appears plainly as a white blur, when the upper magnetic pole is given a conical shape for photographic purposes. Visual observation, shows striking details. If copper particles, say, have been added to the acidulated water, they will rotate in the same plane as the hydrogen bubbles, but in the opposite direction. For both, the speed of the whirligig depends upon the strength of the magnetic field. Reverse the polarity of the magnet, and each set of particles spins in the opposite direction.
Here are no wild-eyed theories, but perfectly demonstrable facts. Any skeptical physicist has a standing invitation to see them with his own eyes at Dr. Ehrenhaft's laboratory, placed at his disposal in the New York City quarters of the famous Carl Zeiss optical firm. How to account for the phenomena remains a challenge to science, unless Dr. Ehrenhaft's conclusions are to be accepted. See how neatly they would draw an analogy between well-known electric effects and new-found magnetic effects:
From Here
http://www.electricitybook.com/magnetism/
Chet
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sergenet,
Nice to encounter someone who have understood what all matter is made of: vibrations aka standing waves.
A variable frequency crystal oscillator sounds interesting. I will ask a friend of mine that is far more at home
in this area than me.
I am personally convinced that Chris encountered a resonance phenomenon without being aware of it,
since he never succeded to repeat the so called magnetolysis which this topic is all about.
Resonance is the key here and this is what I am going to concentrate on this winter.
I have a feeling the active resonance points get more powerful the further up the frequency scale one moves,
since the further up the frequency scale you go, the further down towards the Planck scale one moves.
And it is there at that sub-molecular level where it all happens.
Therefore I suggest anyone interested in this area to explore the frequency band beyond the Mega Hertz range.
I also believe it is absolutely vital that the equipment used are perfectly calibrated and that all settings
and frequency adjustments during the experiment is digitally recorded for optimal retracability.
Gwandau
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Is anyone using the frequency of 42.7122? This has been proven to be the frequency at which water will fracture. I believe this was discovered by Patriach (spelling)?
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I built an oscillator that covered a wide range of frequencies but was not able to crack water with it.
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Sergenet
Hopefully that will just be "YET"!!
If we work together and share "open source"!!
WE WILL DO THIS!!
PERIOD!!
The talent is in these few forums to get this done!!
Chet
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Have you tried cracking supersaturated NaOH H2O solution?
I built an oscillator that covered a wide range of frequencies but was not able to crack water with it.
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if you can crack plain water, then we wont need the NaOH. That would be excellent! No chance of poisoning.
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I have not experimented with super saturated NAOH H2O or any other solution. I believe frequency alone should do the job. It just is so difficult to find the resonance at which water will break down. I have done a lot of reading and many suggested low frequency but I just was not able to accomplish much. Everything on our earth and the universe itself vibrates. Each element down to its sub-atomic level resonates. If one could find that element-specific frequency, one could slice metal like a piece of butter. I envision (some day) a multi-frequency rod that tunes itself to any element's harmonic resonance frequency that will be used to slice through that element just like we use a knife to slice through a tomato. Maybe far fetched, but I believe it will be done some day. That is why I believe you need a specific frequency to break up water. No chemical is needed or should be used.
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Any volume of water is going to absorb energy... Like trying to boil 2 quarts of water in a microwave.
But... a shallow 1to 2 mm sheet of water with a large surface area may be worth experiment.
I have not experimented with super saturated NAOH H2O or any other solution. I believe frequency alone should do the job. It just is so difficult to find the resonance at which water will break down. I have done a lot of reading and many suggested low frequency but I just was not able to accomplish much. Everything on our earth and the universe itself vibrates. Each element down to its sub-atomic level resonates. If one could find that element-specific frequency, one could slice metal like a piece of butter. I envision (some day) a multi-frequency rod that tunes itself to any element's harmonic resonance frequency that will be used to slice through that element just like we use a knife to slice through a tomato. Maybe far fetched, but I believe it will be done some day. That is why I believe you need a specific frequency to break up water. No chemical is needed or should be used.
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From Farrah
PRICELESS!!
Here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=387.msg7579;topicseen
December 2010
The limitations of standard Faraday Electrolysis should be quite obvious to anyone and everyone that has taken the trouble to read and understand Faraday’s Laws of Electrolysis. After all, they couldn’t be much simpler. The amount of gases evolved under standard Faraday Electrolysis, is - and will always be - governed by the current through the cell/electrolyser. Even if we keep the voltage to the realistic optimum of around 2 volts per cell to initiate and maintain electrolysis, then we are still always limited by the current that can be drawn through the cell at this voltage. With the power dissipated equal to, P = V x I, or P = 2V x I, even at just two volts the high current required produces lots of wasted energy in the form of heat. Under these conditions, the current needed to produce enough gas to run an ICE becomes enormous, and indeed impossible to provide continuously via an on-demand vehicle system.
To electrolyse 1 litre of water (under ideal conditions of around 1.3 volts and 100% efficiency) requires 3.658kW of power per hour. Which, at 1.3 volts, equates to 2814 amps! This would provide 2038 litres of oxyhydrogen.
Now if you check out this link you will see where the problems lie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qzrI20VPCw
This emphasises the very real limitations of so-called brute force, Faraday Electrolysis.
So, is there another way?
Well, it has been proven that for the same amount of power, Plasma Discharge Electrolysis produces more combustible gases than Faraday Electrolysis. I say, ‘combustible gases’, because the high temperatures created by plasma discharges do not just involve the creation of radical species H+ and OH-, but also OH2 and O, reacting to form not only hydrogen and oxygen, but also highly combustible hydrogen peroxide H2O2.
If you are aware of the work done by Dave Lawton, who was himself active on forums a few years back, you will know that he claimed to be achieving 3 – 4 times more gas evolution from his Meyer-like electrolyser than Faraday’s Electrolysis Laws state was possible. Of course Faraday’s Laws of Electrolysis were not at fault and still completely valid, so there had to be something else happening too. Back then there was much theorising, much controversy, and of course much wild speculation. But now, a few years on, things look a little different and the pieces of the puzzle are starting to fit nicely to show us glimpses of the big picture.
One thing that was a feature of Dave Lawton’s electrolyser design was that the tubular electrodes were ‘conditioned’. Conditioning is a term that is banded about quite a lot. For a long time it was considered a mysterious process, creating much speculation and debate, and indeed seen by some as a bit of a dark art. The problem was, that no one really knew what it was all about - how or why it apparently increased efficiency of the electrolyser - or indeed if it served any real purpose at all.
Further complications arise from the fact there seems to be two types of conditioning of the electrodes, or rather two interpretations. The first is that running an electrolyser at a low current for a few hours, allows iron in the surface of the electrodes to ‘leach’ out. That is, any microscopic areas of iron on the surface of the stainless steel electrodes, under working conditions will react with the oxygen being created to form rust. Now obviously if we are losing oxygen to the iron to form an oxide, then we evolve less oxygen as a gas, so certainly this will be seen as a reduction in gas output. When this iron reacts to form rust it usually leaves the surface of the SS electrodes to become a precipitate in the solution, and the chromium in the SS quickly acts to form a protective oxide coating. Once all the microscopic iron has been reacted, the chromium oxide coating on the SS surface does its job and prevents further reaction. So this form of condition makes sense and indeed is good practice.
However, Dave Lawton’s electrode conditioning goes a step further. By using hard water (that is water high in minerals) or indeed doping water with minerals, he built up a visible mineral coating, which consisted mainly of calcium carbonate, or scale. Water that is filtered through limestone is very mineral rich and ideal for producing this coating. But what does it do?
Well at the time, as I mentioned above, it was a mystery. But not so now.
Dave Lawton claimed that his cells appeared to glow slightly in the dark, producing some kind of luminescence. At the time, though interesting, not too much was made of this and little investigation or indeed real consideration was given to this phenomenon.
The interesting thing about this mineral coating was that, although it did not conduct electricity, having a non-measurable resistance on a digital multimeter and so effectively a great insulator, it was actually very porous.
What I know now, that no one realised at the time was that the luminescence was due to microscopic PLASMA DISCHARGES within the microscopic cavities of this porous mineral coating. And any apparent over-Faraday results were likely due to this phenomenon.
Now, CAVITATION produces similar results to plasma discharges in water due to the high temperatures and pressures created on a microscopic level but, unlike plasma discharges which are created by high currents, cavitation is induced mechanically by physical vibration.
So here’s the thing. Why not introduce all these elements into an electrolyser in order to – if possible – increase overall efficiency.
So here’s my idea: The Hybrid Electrolyser
An electrolyser that uses elements of Faraday Electrolysis, Plasma Discharge Electrolysis and Cavitation.
I’m currently designing and fabricating, but the current freezing cold spell is hampering me somewhat. However, I’ve attached a couple of my initial designs in order that you can see where I’m going with this.
-------------------------------
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Farrah
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that really counts!
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the luminescence was due to microscopic PLASMA DISCHARGES within the microscopic cavities of this porous mineral coating
This is soo intriguing! What a beautiful way to initiate resonance, using the microscopic
dimensional boundaries created within the cavities.
Priceless indeed! Thanks alot for sharing this.
Gwandau
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Gwandau,
Yes ,A wonderful find [observation]!!,perhaps a way to tune [get the glow going]?
The slow road to eureka!
Good to be excited ,and good to hear Farrah 's
Positive side! [very good]
Chet
PS
From "Yaro"
Here is my effort at replicating Mookie's experiment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6OIcjNl66E
12V, 6A. The electromagnet was set at 70V and it pulled 0.66 amps.
I used six 4 inch pizza cutters I bought from The Dollar store.
My observations:
The higher the amp draw the better the production.
I won't call it an avalanche. Accelerated production is a better term.
The container wall has to be thin. I tried a 3/8 " thick Plexiglass and it did not work.
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hello
i have been thinking how could the stanley meyer device work and i came to this:
what you guys think?
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TheBuzzer sound...
Meyer had two different processes. You appear to be trying to replicate the tube cell.
I replicated that and what he was doing is heterodyning a bunch of signals onto what amounts to an RF modulator, mixer, ring mixer - all the same thing.
The reason he did the bifilar coil wrap was because in the final stage of an AM RF stage, you have an inductor and a cap. The cap goes to the antenna and the inductor goes to ground. Meyer needed two wires to produce potential but did not want electrons donated to the water. So he sunk the magnetic energy into the inductor and the bifilar wrap cancels out each other leaving just voltage - hence the term "voltrolysis". When the outer coils of his transformer fire, (the outer modulator coils) they reverse the current.
The heterodyned wave produces side bands that go way the hell up into the gigahertz range as Puharich stated and is well known and easily verified with a RF spectometer.
The burst wave he spoke of was all these timers firing in sequence. Meyer used a cascade generator circuit in at least his first two early designs and I have boards that he used that have not been made public.
The alternator was nothing special and I have the alternator board. Large case Ford alternator. The high voltage alternator claim is BS and easily proven false.
I posted some photos of the boards with writing on them so people could not reverse engineer them at OUR when they began the process of banning me. That is a spook trap and the last thing they want is for real info to come out.
It is so easy and obvious when you know what you are looking for. Look at the back of the fracture generator. Notice the BNC connectors? RF baby.
The RF is the reason the VIC was inside a metal case when a delrin box would have been rust proof and what stan liked to machine - me too. The galvanic voltage caused corrosion in Meyers prototype but the tube cell design was a non-starter on a large scale anyway.
His next venture was the injector attached to the air gas processor which was a laser ozone generator. The ozone was used to make hydrogen peroxide - rocket fuel baby! That is the reason Meyer used the aluminum engine - aluminum is resistant to the corrosion and contamination effects of H2O2 and the preferred storage vessel.
The water tank had two different heaters in it. One was used to make steam to mix with the ozone in ultrasonic mixer tubes located in the bottom of the air gas processor and the other heater was to keep the tank from freezing.
Fig. 10-4 of his notes. Notice the word composite on the drawing. That means that the wire was coated with anther metal such as copper or... silver. Dankie was wrong and TheBuzz was right.
Photos are:
Fig 10-4 from notes
Fracture generator BNC connectors
VIC coil off buggy
Hope that helps! I spent several frustrating years and about 100K of my own money researching that one. All I got for it was banned from about every forum on the web. I also had a gold star stolen from a pig butt named Ramset... don't even get me started on that one. :-)
I have mountains of Meyer stuff but am busy building a "giant laser" that I plan to use to "take over zee world". - later and good luck
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QuarkToo
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge .
XS NRG
And QuarkToo also pointed this out :o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyNc-97ZFhM&feature=related
Chet
Perhaps what Oliver {anton cell] Meant about pursuing
other meens of harvesting from the cells.
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Quark, have you made a working unit? That would be great if you could. ;D