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Author Topic: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery  (Read 6561 times)

Offline SiliconWizard

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Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« on: July 17, 2010, 02:52:08 AM »
Hi guys

I've been doing a lot of research into wet-cell chemistry trying to find something that was a bit safer and more environmentally friendly than commercial batteries.

...And some of these alternative cells. Cmon guys, sodium and potassium peroxides. You shouldnt be chucking that stuff down your drains and I bet you arent disposing of them properly. Costs more than the battery is worth...

Anyway, I found one that works pretty well, and just about everything can be found laying around.

Anode is made of aluminium, cathode from carbon and the electrolyte is oxygen bleach. I use the one in the pink tub... There are several but look for Sodium PerCarbonate and TAED (TetraAcetylEthyleneDiamine) as the working components. Sounds nasty, but its basically turbo vinegar and soda:

2(Na2CO3·1.5H2O2) → 2 Na2CO3  + 3 H2O2 in solution - it makes Hydrogen Peroxide that then reacts with TAED to make PeroxyAcetic Acid, CH3CO3H.
What makes it interesting is that it has to mature first, freshly mixed up it does not work at all. If you leave it to stand though, the voltage peaks to 1.3V, dips, peaks again to 1.1V 50-60mA after about 12 hours and then produces for several days before dropping to 0.3V 2mA with a cloudy gel in the bottom. This is mostly Aluminium Hydroxide, the rest is a series of compounds that break down swiftly and harmlessly in the drain system as the makers of the stuff intended.

The ingredients are simple. Cola cans and small fizzy pop bottles provide one plate and a shell, stainless steel mesh from a sieve for another electrode and a chunk of charcoal provides the carbon. I do a pre-soak and would otherwise tip away, but its now ready for use. Old cloth or paper towel insulates the aluminium from the stainless mesh, which is wrapped around the charcoal. You just wrap the plate round the electrode and when its in the bottle it unwinds, you can get a few in there for extra amps. Dont forget the wires first, just rolled into the electrode and pinched flat with pliers. The positive electrode lasts forever, by the way. Comes up nice and clean.

Not the best in the world but its easy, free, and bio friendly. And yes, and it does the washing... Take that you stupid bunny ;o)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline The Observer

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2010, 06:34:44 AM »
Sil,

Bio Friendly?...
   I got Bio Friendly and it's been running a month   
        without and noticable degredation...
                just needs a bit of fresh tap water from time to time.

Best Regards,
                  The Observer

Offline Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2010, 09:02:38 AM »
check out some of the other battery threads here.  Several people using carbon and aluminum; carbon and magnesium etc.  Some good threads on earth batteries and all that too.  Check out the air battery thread.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2010, 09:02:38 AM »
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2010, 10:07:38 AM »
Thanks, I already bought some magnesium ribbon, I'm actually working on a way of making a carbon core using Bentonite clay as a porous mechanical shell containing charcoal powder (Fuller's Earth or cheaper still, clumping cat litter) rather than buying one... WTG LaserSabre...

I've made numerous water / wet cell batteries and a few hybrid Stubblefields involving sulphur and carbon besides the regular iron and copper. One with Zinc wire that was pretty good, but all the water batteries only put out uAmps, and using pennies (I'm in the UK) costs me more than it does in cents... For 60mA, it'd be quite an outlay. I found all my parts on the side of the road except the o2 bleach, which I buy and throw away after use.

Mind if I ask what sort of amperage you're getting, Observer? I've never pulled anything worthwhile out of water without some help from chemicals, or using something really reactive like magnesium that outgases pretty bad too. Mine dont seem to produce significant gases beyond the initial oxygen.

My remit was free, not cheap, and no emissions/hazardous chemicals.

Keep up the good work, guys.

Peace

Offline The Observer

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 04:27:43 PM »
Sil,

I suppose the amperage of my batteries would be more if there was acid in there.
Avoiding that.. I wanna see what is possible with just tap water.

Currently (no pun intended) I have 1 pill Jar running the Joule Thief LED as I discovered that the other had shorted out due to shoddy construction.
It lights up nicely but not super bright off just 1 battery.

It is starting to look like these will run for a looong time.  Which in that case puts me in the running for the OU prize as it needs to run 3 months and can add a liter of water a day.  I would need only cup per week to make 1 watt light go however.

Best Regards,
                  The Observer
« Last Edit: July 17, 2010, 05:01:52 PM by The Observer »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2010, 04:27:43 PM »
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2010, 09:49:06 PM »
Observer,

Dont get me wrong, I wasnt knocking them. Actually, thats a pretty pain-free way of getting a lot of bulk and surface area in a small space. I never managed to get a water battery to light a JT (Actually, a few did but the JT flashed on and off. No constant light.)

Have you tried a little piece of carbon in contact with the bolt and insulated directly from the coins? It must be wet... You dont need much and it improved pretty much every type of cell I added it to.

I'm not sure exactly what it is doing, it doesnt have to be in circuit, just in contact with it as near to the outlet point as possible - I think though, its acting like a salt bridge in a split cell; deionisation of the electrolyte would definitely increase amps if not voltage, slightly, as well.

I had a look at the competition rules, 1VA will be hard work, you'll need a *lot* of bottles if they are .6V each and under a few mA - mine suck after the chemistry dies. Er... 'Keep taking the pills?'  :D

Seriously tho, good luck to you. They do have longevity on their side, mine wont last that long so I'm out - not that I'm interested in money anyway!

Peace

Offline jeanna

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 11:24:43 PM »
Hi siliconwizard,
Welcome to the fun.

With your name I thought you were bringing us a silicon based battery.  ;D
I like the idea of the sodium bentonite, and Ian used that successfully when making a hutchison type crystal cell, which he was convinced was non galvanic.

In using the charcoal, how are you connecting this?
Are you sticking a probe or alligator clip into a briquette?
I am using copper pipe, but charcoal is possibly better if the connection can be made secure.

I am glad you ordered the magnesium ribbon. It is really a breakthrough material for this, IMO.


thanks,

jeanna

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2010, 11:24:43 PM »
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Bio-friendly recycled materials battery
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2010, 01:00:33 AM »
Hi Jeanna

I feel welcomed indeed...

Sadly no, I have only just begun to experiment with the stuff outside of a computer. I was a programmer by 12 years old, and later got into processor R&D, but I've done many things. I now see myself more as an artist who uses physics, and I'm a wearer of many hats - some of them pointy lol. But hey, I can try... Come Metatron, my idle familiar, we have work to do... ;)

In the bio-friendly cell, its just wrapped in the stainless mesh, itself wrapped in cloth. Theres a bit of a trick with charcoal, its no good getting briquettes.
I use only good quality lumpwood and choose a piece that has obviously been a big chunk of wood. It has a grain when broken open, and its the pieces from the center of a log, and hopefully the center of the oven that will have the best carbon.

I made a fizzy monster of a test cell with magnesium in bicarb solution, and the cathode was just a 2" piece of lumpwood with an alligator clip. It was however carefully chosen. Winding copper round it works too, I should imagine just jamming a piece in the copper tube would help.
Charcoal briquettes are very often recycled from cotton tree waste and other sources and are simply pulped and torched to hell without oxygen, which isnt good carbon. You'll stomp on a few bits before you see what I mean. Its not crumbly, its hard, brittle and flaky, black and not dark grey. Drawing charcoal didnt appear to work but thats usually willow sticks, little thin stuff that can percolate CO2 out, reducing the carbon in the structure.

For a dry cell, I had the idea of powdering it and wetting it with salt, bicarb or something crystalline, then stuffing it into a tube that had been pre-lined with sodium laced bentonite and compressing it while it dries. I'd need a serious press which I dont have to mechanically bind charcoal so I thought the salts would perform as a binder when they recrystallise on drying. Should hold it together so long as it stays less than damp...

During the filling of the tube, the idea was to insert a bit of stainless mesh that runs the length of the core. I've found mesh and powder work well together, theres a lot of potential points of contact even with poor charcoal and stainless doesnt corrode significantly, where copper oxide is bad news.

Actually, not always. Copper oxide is another killer material but thats for another thread entirely. I've made some really cool stuff with that too.

No problem. What else can one do with free energy but give it away?  ;D

 

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