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Author Topic: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel  (Read 73411 times)

Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2010, 03:45:11 PM »
Milkovic has shown nothing, other than a nice way to get high torque out for short pulses, from longer low-torque, equal work input. Not one replication, even a recent genious one that had full syncronization from output to input, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJsXLiLNJHA ) was unable to keep going, let alone offer the 12x claimed output.

If you've ever seen a better attempt, let alone by Milkovic himself, please let me know, I'd be most interested to see, study, and replicate it.
That was indeed an elaborate and clever attempt to loop a pendulum, but I could have told you it wasn't going to work. I've tried the same thing only to find that the timing of the pulse is critical. If the feedback pulse is applied at the wrong time it won't work no matter what you do. The Milkovic device is also primarily an oscillator, which denotes resonance. This attempt never got anywhere near resonance, which in itself invalidates any conclusions.
Not being able to loop the output power only proves that the method used was unsuccessful. It does not prove anything else. The attempt cited here merely shows me that this guy didn't really understand the primary mechanism to begin with.

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2010, 03:45:11 PM »

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2010, 05:52:57 PM »
I think your response doesn't do the attempt justice. I, for one, don't believe or at least don't understand the hype about resonances. I've yet to find a situation where 1+1=3.
Would you like to venture that a similarly looped system will prove to be a source of energy when merely timed a bit better? This would imply that indeed timing of an input pulse is vital. And that then would imply that energy is lost or won, depending on timing of release. Such a statement would be going against preservation of energy.
Anyway, what do I know. So many geniouses are devoting their free time to Milkovic, and all we get is odd oscillations, always under unity.

Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 09:58:36 PM »
I think your response doesn't do the attempt justice. I, for one, don't believe or at least don't understand the hype about resonances. I've yet to find a situation where 1+1=3.
Would you like to venture that a similarly looped system will prove to be a source of energy when merely timed a bit better? This would imply that indeed timing of an input pulse is vital. And that then would imply that energy is lost or won, depending on timing of release. Such a statement would be going against preservation of energy.
Anyway, what do I know. So many geniouses are devoting their free time to Milkovic, and all we get is odd oscillations, always under unity.
The guy who built that feedback mechanism didn't understand how the Milkovic oscillator really works. It's as simple as that. The impulse should be applied at the top of the stroke, not at the bottom. Also, if you have too much vertical travel, like this guy did, it takes all the velocity out of the pendulum. There is also a delicate balance between the pendulum weight, it's period, the length of the lever and the weight or springs used. He was dead in the water before he started.
Until you build a Milkovic replication and get it into resonance, you are just fooling around with a very inefficient pendulum.
Milkovic calls it an oscillator for the simple reason that it doesn't work worth beans until it is oscillating (in resonance). 
Very few people take the time and effort to really understand what's going on with his device, which is well worth replication and study.

Ted

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2010, 09:58:36 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2010, 06:36:22 AM »
how do you make this thing a self runner!?

HOW???????????????????????????!

Offline Ted Ewert

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 07:02:59 AM »
how do you make this thing a self runner!?

HOW???????????????????????????!

I would suggest starting with a full rotation pendulum. This mode would be much easier than a swinging type. If you need any more help, let me know.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2010, 07:02:59 AM »
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Offline tagor

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2010, 09:16:39 AM »

I would suggest starting with a full rotation pendulum. This mode would be much easier than a swinging type. If you need any more help, let me know.

I have one !
how can I get OU ?

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2010, 11:29:09 AM »
This construction can be simplified to the following test case:

Is there a difference in kinetic energy gain between the following two cases:
-you drop a stone from a bridge
-throwing a stone downwards from the same bridge

Kinetic energy gain when dropping = delta (potential energy) = mass * gravitational constant * delta hight.
Kinetic energy gain when throwing = deta (potential energy) + throwing energy = mass * (gravitational constant + extra acceleration) * delta hight

In other words: is there a gain in the energy that was spend by throwing down?
Energy spend to throw: E=F*t=m*a*t, with "a" being the extra acceleration caused by the throw.
Should be easy to calculate how much the extra kinetic energy is at point of reception

I see some resemblance with bungee jumping  ;)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 12:00:03 PM by teslaalset »

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2010, 11:29:09 AM »
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Offline tagor

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2010, 11:58:46 AM »
...

In other words: is there a gain in the energy that was spend by throwing down?
Energy spend to throw: E=F*t=m*a*t, with "a" being the extra acceleration caused by the throw.
Should be easy to calculate how much the extra kinetic energy is at point of reception.

no
no gain , because gravity is conservative ...

Offline teslaalset

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2010, 12:11:06 PM »

no
no gain , because gravity is conservative ...

I agree with you.
If you work out my given example case and use an elastic band than you should see following:
If the claimed extra energy at the bottom is not tapped, the extra energy will be spend in launching the stone upwards after reaching its minimum hight.
If there would be an energy gain, the peak hight, obtained after spending the upward force, will be higher than when simply shoot the stone upwards from the bridge with the same energy spend for throwing down the stone.
This will not happen, otherwise this would have been observed much earlier in time.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2010, 04:16:46 PM by teslaalset »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2010, 12:11:06 PM »
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Offline TechStuf

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2010, 12:17:07 PM »

Quote
no gain , because gravity is conservative ...


Yes, but not too conservative.  Besides, sometimes two conservatives, like, say, gravity + angular momentum = .......



Offline tagor

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2010, 03:25:13 PM »

Yes, but not too conservative.  Besides, sometimes two conservatives, like, say, gravity + angular momentum = .......

 
can you give me an example of not conservative case ?

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2010, 03:25:13 PM »
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Offline lespaul109

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2010, 04:42:44 PM »
AN UPDATE

Offline lespaul109

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2010, 05:54:30 AM »
just an update

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2010, 08:19:19 AM »

 
can you give me an example of not conservative case ?

the archer quinn S.O.G. device comes to mind.....
--------------------------------------------------------------
Gravity is only conservative when analyzed from the perspective of lift vs fall. (mgh)
an object accelerates with the square of time on the way down, and inversly deccelerates on the way up.

If the object already has a velocity when it is released (i.e. throwing it down), then is allowed to fall, it is the same as dropping it from a higher altitude.
This higher altitude, would be equivalent to the original (mgh) + the kinetic energy of the 'throw'.
However, the momentum of the object, is its mass times its velocity. The time derrivative is not squared.
When you impart this 'throw' energy in the same directional vector as the gravitational force, the momentum force added to it, results in a greater final momentum than when the object is allowed to free-fall from the 'higher' altitude.

for instance, take the Chalkalis device, and move the drive-wheels to the other side of the wheel; Such that they are driving the wheel up and over the top, instead of pushing it on the down side. If the drive-wheels are set so that the wheel just barely completes the full circle when pushed on the down side,
when you move them to the up side, the wheel will not make it around the top, and back into the drive-wheels.
too much momentum is eaten by the gravitational decceleration.
it goes up, over the top, then pendulates to a stop at bottom dead center, never re-entering the drive-wheels for another cycle.

The same ammount of energy was added to the system, yet the wheel retains less momentum.
-------------------------------------------------------
using the rock thrown from a bridge example::
you calculate the gravitational displacement from the top of the bridge (mgh), and add the energy of the "throw", then launch the rock with this set ammount of energy, vertically upwards from the ground.
You will observe the 'conservative' gravitational field. Up / Down.
allow the rock to land on an impact-scale.
the rock arrives back at the ground with the same ammount of force you imparted upon it.

Now, take this rock to the top of the bridge (mgh input), and give it an equal 'throw' downwards.(same total input energy) and allow this rock to strike an impact-scale on the ground. the impact force(momentum) of the rock, moving faster now, is greater than in the first test. This is defined in Newton's second law.

The total Energy in both cases is the same yet the momentum (impact force) is quite different. Momentum is a vector quantity (directional) and does not significantly affect the total energy of the system until you approach relativistic velocities.
It does however affect the kinetic energy of the system in motion.
and in the case of the unbalanced wheel, this becomes more complex. Momentum is increasing and decreasing during different parts of the cycle (up / down).
--------------------------------------------------------------
When the mass is attached to a fixed wheel, and the additional momentum is in the same vector are the gravitational force, this momentum is added to the gravitationally imparted velocity as the wheel turns around. Because the added momentum is conserved all the way around the wheel.

This is why when the drive-wheels are placed on the down-side of the chalkalis wheel, it allows the wheel to complete a full circle and re-enter the drive-wheels.
--------------------------------------------------------------
another example would be if you have a mass, rotating at a set distance around a fixed axis. Then you change this distance.
like a kid on a whirl-a-round, moving inwards or outwards.
The momentum increases or decreases accordingly, and this affects the rotational velocity of the whirl-a-round.
Yet no "energy" is added to or subtracted from the system.
------------------------------------------------------------

The important difference in the Chalkalis device, is that extra energy IS actually added to the system, from the drive-wheels.
When this translates to increased momentum, there is a greater rotational force imparted upon the axis.
To determine the extent of this effect, would require a "load" placed upon the axis, increasing until the wheel no longer makes it over the top. When this maximum output is reached, it should then be compared to the energy input INTO the drive-wheels.

This would be the ONLY definitive test, to determine wether or not the Chalkalis device is "OU".







Offline teslaalset

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Re: Chalkalis Gravity Wheel
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2010, 09:39:46 AM »
just an update

Looking good, please keep posting your progress. We need replicators like you.
I admire your skills  ;)

 

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