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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: void109 on July 09, 2010, 07:50:53 AM

Title: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 09, 2010, 07:50:53 AM
Just had a notion, and tried out the model in a magnetostatic simulator.  With a Halbach array you end up with one side of the magnetic configuration having roughly twice the magnetic field it would have without the configuration, and other other side is roughly nil.

If you have a Halback configuration of Up, Right, Down, Left, Up - all of the flux is to one side.

Replace the second and fourth magnets, Right and Left with solonoid type electromagnets that we'll pulse with AC current to act as a transformer.

When the second and fourth magnets, shift from Right Left, to Left Right polarity, the entire field shifts to the other side.  So we can pick up the current from the magnetic fields we are creating, and also the fields of the other three magnets as they are shuffling back and forth within the halbach configuration.

It seems obvious so its probably an old idea thats been hashed apart somewhere already.  I just havent seen it.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 09, 2010, 08:13:57 PM
Hi Void109,

That is a really good idea. I drew a version where the coil gets placed along the magnetic field lines. It may be better to have the input coil 90 degrees to the pickup(?). If this is all wrong let me know I'll redraw it.

Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 09, 2010, 10:59:54 PM
Was thinking something like this:
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 09, 2010, 11:00:42 PM
Sorry about the monster image size, I'm a completely new scrub to making gifs - that's my first, not sure how to resize it yet.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: phoneboy on July 10, 2010, 06:17:16 AM
Always wondered why noone had tried something like this? I had a design something similar to this, but mechanical. The idea was to rotate the outer and and center magnets in the array in unison and to wrap flat spiral coils around the other two to capitalize on the flux change.  Never thought about using electromagnets though, good idea, much easier to impliment.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: synchro1 on July 10, 2010, 07:22:38 PM
I too had a design similar to this, with flux blocker coils turning the array field on and off to one side only. I didn't realize reversing the fields of the second and fourth magnets shifted the field from side to side, but I see it now. Thank you for the enlightenment. With this concept, even a simple pendulum generator should be several times overunity. Wraping an output coil directly around the three magnet and two electro magnet array might generate even more. Wraping the electro magnet solonoid coils bifilar, would double the magnet strength for the same power.
 
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 11, 2010, 04:35:30 PM
It looks like you would need several separate coils working independently given that the flux lines are so awkwardly placed in the array.  It looks like if you just wrapped it in a coil, it would defeat itself since half of the lines would counter the other half.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: Staffman on July 11, 2010, 06:21:04 PM
Great idea Void109!! I have been trying to play with this design some, but I'm running low on wire. It will probably be awhile before I can order more. Anyway... Here is a quick drawing of what I think your talking about here. I also included a possible way to tie the outputs together without the output of one side of the Halbach array putting power to the coils on the other half. I call it a phase rectifier, it's just a full bridge rectifier for each 'phase'.

Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: synchro1 on July 11, 2010, 07:36:45 PM
Picture a Hallbach array sandwiched between two rotor wheels with staggered iron cleats attached along the edge of each of the insides, above and below. Activating the second and fourth electro magnet would make the Hallbach magnetic field shift from side to side with double the strength, attracting first the overhead then the staggered rotor cleat beneath; like the Art Porter design, a different coil assisted magnet motor, with a five to one pay off, strength doubling on each side! The Tesla bifilar high volatge magnet coil is wraped exactly like a Joule Thief, two wires three ends. The beginning of one wire attached to the end of the other. Twice the magnetic strength of a single wrap solenoid for the same wire length and input!   
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: Paul-R on July 12, 2010, 04:21:01 PM
Void's idea is most intriguing. Obviously, the power consumed by the electromagnets
will be crucial. Maybe the device can be used to get a SMOT ramp into a circle.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 12, 2010, 04:45:47 PM
Since nobody has said its an old idea, or a terrible idea (yet), I will order the supplies to build the transformer today.  For the coils, I'm thinking of using ferrite cylinders, small, as well as ceramic magnets for a weaker field.  When playing with a halbach array in sims, it seems like the magnets need to be of roughly equal strength, so I think need to be able to gain the same strength from the pulsed cores.

Should be:
2 x ferrite cores, 1" diameter 1" length.
3 x 1" x 1" ceramic cube magnets 
3 x 1" x 1" neodymium magnets
A large quantity of 26 awg magnet wire

I'll try it with both ferrite and air cores, as well as both ceramic and neodymium magnets.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 12, 2010, 05:01:02 PM
Here's an implementation idea
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: mscoffman on July 12, 2010, 05:25:14 PM
Since nobody has said its an old idea, or a terrible idea (yet), I will order the supplies to build the transformer today.  For the coils, I'm thinking of using ferrite cylinders, small, as well as ceramic magnets for a weaker field.  When playing with a halbach array in sims, it seems like the magnets need to be of roughly equal strength, so I think need to be able to gain the same strength from the pulsed cores.
...



@void109

Wouldn't it make sense to initially use electromagnets in place
of permanent magnets? Precisely so you could make the field
strengths equal. This seems to have happened in the toroids.
Permanent magnets are quite powerful and it is hard to get a balanced
magnetic field strength system with them when using them with
electromagnetic coils. This might cut down on the net number of
coil turns required until you've proven operation.

One would simply not count the substitution coil current (power)
being dissipated understanding that these would eventually be
replaced by permanent magnets. These could be designed in
taking time to not have them affected by magnet erasability
issues of non-neo magnets. In NEO's the external fields do not
totally penetrate the interior of the magnets.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 12, 2010, 05:29:09 PM
Quote
Wouldn't it make sense to initially use electromagnets in place
of permanent magnets? Precisely so you could make the field
strengths equal.

@mscoffman

Great point!  Thank you!  That will make it much easier to determine whether or not this will produce useful output. :)
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 12, 2010, 05:51:04 PM
Hi Void,

Your last representation makes it clear now. This is a very interesting design.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: synchro1 on July 12, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
Alot of magnet wire will stand away from the magnets. It might look more like sugar cubes between cans of tuna then the representations. Hi voltage wrap important. Maybe the cores could be made smaller.
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: void109 on July 12, 2010, 07:49:29 PM
New animation
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: Hope on July 24, 2010, 08:22:22 PM
Please continue this flux bender, perhaps end coils as well ...   and when you pulse you also create voids you can capture and reflect as echos.   Excited coils beginning at 5Kv  pulsed to 15Kv will give less resistance to flux paths.   Careful if you create a HOT CHASSIS not to ground yourself though. 
Title: Re: Solid State Generator via Electromagnets + Halbach Array
Post by: TruthHunter on August 18, 2015, 02:20:20 PM
I see this "promising idea got dropped like a hot potato..

Flux switch can only work if the path is switched. This is more than that. Its substitution
of electromagnets for PM's. It simply requires too much power to switch the direction of the Halbach array.
Even for a standard(non OU) motor it won't make sense.