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New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: old man on June 24, 2010, 10:33:10 PM

Title: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 24, 2010, 10:33:10 PM
i am looking for some one to help with this the more the minds the better lol got this what i have in mine aluminun cans we all can get them and copper wire water and salt and them and the make a 12 volit batt that you can have all the time and all you have to do is and water and salt  so i started with to cans 5 day andgot 1.5 v now i and going to see how many cans to get 3 leds to light and the i going for 12 i no this is crazy be lets thing for a min if you have 12 v you can run an 250 w inverter all the time for a week  anthing you can come up with  thang out side the box here it can be 05 and up  just and more can or thake away come on in and lets find out i just need some pelope as crazy as me to help i thank we can all laren on the way

thanks
old man
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 25, 2010, 01:11:22 AM
ok sorry for not tell how the test is and sorry for the spelling  i am old  lol
 stared test today with six cans and in each one the is one table spoon of  salt  there is 12in all

1 six are with out load they are at 3.5 v

2 six have a led 2.5 v on it and its at 1.5 v

i need to find out how toget more amps out off it anyone no how without killing me doing it lol  wood  bleach work or vinegar i need something togo with the salt any help wood be appreciated thanks

old man
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 25, 2010, 01:19:56 AM
i am looking for some one to help with this the more the minds the better lol got this what i have in mine aluminun cans we all can get them and copper wire water and salt and them and the make a 12 volit batt
As an alternative (easy to do), is start with copper wire, paper-sanded aluminum can  side metal (for conductivity) and salt water in a 16-oz to 2-liter plastic bottle.  White vinegar might also work? (it's an acid, though)

Experimentation for greatest efficiency is the key, but the component materials are widely available and inexpensive as well.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 25, 2010, 01:33:46 AM
old man said:
Quote
ok sorry for not tell how the test is and sorry for the spelling  i am old  lol
 stared test today with six cans and in each one the is one table spoon of  salt  there is 12in all
1 six are with out load they are at 3.5 v
2 six have a led 2.5 v on it and its at 1.5 v
i need to find out how toget more amps out off it ...
Wiring the battery cells in series will give you more voltage.  Several strings of these in parallel will give you more current and voltage at the same time.
Quote
... anyone no how without killing me doing it lol ...
If you're just lighting LED's, the current and voltage won't kill you, unless you have a string of 10,000 LED's; maybe.
Quote
... wood  bleach work or vinegar i need something togo with the salt any help wood be appreciated thanks
Bleach and ammonia should not be mixed.  That would generate poisonous gases and might kill you.  Vinegar might work; try it and see?

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: jeanna on June 25, 2010, 02:01:04 AM


i need to find out how toget more amps out off it anyone no how without killing me doing it lol  wood  bleach work or vinegar i need something togo with the salt any help wood be appreciated thanks

old man
I think you could use some washing soda. This is Sodium Carbonate and really works well with Al and Carbon, so it will probably work well with Al and copper.

I do not know where you live, but if you are in the states, Arm & Hammer makes it and it is called washing soda. 
There is a way to make it from baking soda, but I forget.
It works well.
Stephan suggested Al foil and Carbon a few years ago and I put 2 in series and lit a yellow LED for several days. I remember I used this washing soda for electrolyte.

jeanna
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 25, 2010, 02:52:25 AM
jeanna
thanks  i will do that thanks


the_big_m_in_ok

 i  have them in a series  and for the  Bleach and ammonia i no what that does been there done that when i was about 15 NEVER WILL i do that agin lol and what i am trying to do is power a Bedini all the time who nows what i will do i got all kind of thing i wont to do i could light my house with them lol you never no all i need is about 10.000 cans and a lot of copper there so muck you could do lol  i just looking for power lol for my shed for now then ill go from the  and this way i can us what i got to do it why buy it when you can find it

thanks for the help

tom ( old man )
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys + My Own Battery Test Results ...
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 25, 2010, 05:17:49 AM
the_big_m_in_ok

 ...i  have them in a series  and for the  Bleach and ammonia i no what that does been there done that when i was about 15 NEVER WILL i do that agin lol ...
Good.  Your neighbors might object and become upset if you were to do that!   :o    ::)   :-X
Quote
... and what i am trying to do is power a Bedini all the time who nows ...
Well, you will still need quite a few of these batteries, to put it very gently.  Thousands of units in series and parallel, probably.
Quote
... what i will do i got all kind of thing i wont to do i could light my house with them lol you never no all i need is about 10.000 cans and a lot of copper there so muck you could do lol ...
Why use cans?  See below for my informal test results---a  first! for my research contribution here at OU.  ;D 
You might need more than 10,000 batteries, but if you use recyclable parts to build them, it shouldn't be terribly expensive.  However, you'll need enough room to store all this stuff.
Quote
... i just looking for power lol for my shed for now ...
Good, start small and work up from there.  It could take, say, 10-15,000 watts for enough power to run power tools and the lights.  Heat in the winter, for example.  Make plans for possible expansion.
Quote
... then ill go from the  and this way i can us what i got to do it why buy it when you can find it
thanks for the help
tom ( old man )
Now that you said it, I have test results on this thread to report:

Taking empty plastic soda or water bottles (trash on the streets---everywhere!) I built 3 water batteries using tap water only.

Starting with 2 solid strands of 24 ga. copper wire twisted together and a piece of magnetic (not stainless, non-magnetic) wire about 12 ga. I had on a small roll---and finally---a piece of heavy aluminum wire about 8-10 ga. I bought from dollar store.

I filled three bottles with city tap water and put 2 ea. "electrodes" in different combinations in each; then measured the resulting voltage across each with my DMM.
RESULTS:

POS       VDC       NEG

Cu          .34        Fe
Cu          .78        Al
Fe          .14        Al
NOTE:
These are average readings because the figures fluctuated about .02-.2 volts either way randomly.  But, you get the idea?  The electrodes didn't touch each other in the bottle.  All bottles were about as full as you would see with soda or water on a store shelf.  Room temperature.  Bottles were rinsed out first, but that's all.  (Tap water is notoriously highly electrically conductive.)

Next I might build 3 more with salt water.  I'll also check the voltage in a few days and see if they fell any in voltage during the time period.

--Lee

Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on June 25, 2010, 06:56:57 AM
Hello,

Last night I attempted to make a Water Capacitor similar to the tube design of Stan Meyer.

A 2 inch long Copper tube inside 2 1/2 inch long Steel Pipe separated by rubber bands.

I threw the thing in a pill jar with some good old City Tap and it is giving off .700 volts !   

Hmm... I could make 10 per night.... in a month I'd have a nice 200 V supply... or in parallel to charge a 12 Volt Battery that runs the lights with a JT Setup..

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys + My Own Battery Test Results ...
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 25, 2010, 08:33:58 PM
the_big_m_in_ok said:

Fresh water (tap)
POS       VDC       NEG

Cu          .34        Fe
Cu          .78        Al
Fe          .14        Al



Salt water
Cu          .34        Fe
Cu          .72        Al
NOTE:
This was done in the mid-evening.





At 7 A.M. the next morning:
Fresh water
Cu          .53      Fe
Cu          .52      Al
Fe          .4        Al



Salt water
Cu         .38       Fe
Cu         .55       Al

The trends are obvious:
A) Salt water doesn't add significant voltage to any cell and costs money, anyway
B) Iron(steel) and copper can "age"? overnight and increase voltage 50% or more, except for:
c) Aluminum-containing cells degrade performance over several hour's time and aluminum wire, especially, isn't widely available
Qualifications:
Long term effects like electrolytic effects on electrodes and degradation of what passes for electrolyte hasn't been considered yet

Other electrolytes like washing soda or something corrosive like dissolved Drano or white vinegar haven't been considered due to cost and potential safety issues

Mixing different types of electrolytes might be especially risky, depending what they are

These are unknown factors to my experience, so the reader is warned

--Lee

Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 26, 2010, 04:20:17 PM
all

 well led out so now i will go for 2 can test
2 with white vinegar and two with bleach water and two with lemon A later on today let you all no

with one tea spoon in each


tom


lee
thank you  for your in put and yout test

Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 26, 2010, 05:27:14 PM
all

started new test with two cans 

 white vinegar and water

vdc       ma
 .635      .269


bleach water

1.027      .273


 lemon juice water

1.116    .141


The Observer

could you let use no what your getting with your setup if you could ples thank you

tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on June 26, 2010, 06:54:07 PM
Old Man,

So far I've deduced that a Steel-Aluminum set up in Tap water Produces .700 to .800 Volts.
(about the same with Steel-Copper  .6 V - .7V)

I came up with the idea last night of using Soup Cans (FE) and Aluminum Cans (AL) for making water batteries for cheap/ free.
Line up 150 of these.. and you would have over 100 Volts...
1500, and you would have over 1000 V.

I would spend a week making these things if it meant I could tell the Electric Company to go take a hike !

The Observer

P.S. Could make 14 V packs that hook up in parallel with a Car Batteries.
        The Car Battery would store excess energy and be available for times of Peak Usage.

Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 26, 2010, 07:17:23 PM
I would spend a week making these things if it meant I could tell the A to go take a hike !

now that wood be nice   me all i wont to do is get my bill down so i am starting small if i can find a way off getting these to work and give me 12 v all the time for 5 or 6 moths i can work with that and then i can add to it like moter or run a wind mill to in to a batt bbank  and use things we have at home like me in my test iam useing old house copper wire  that was given to me i can get tvs @vcrs@all kinds of things to use  and i like you idea of useing Soup Cans  and Aluminum Cans  and lee useing empty plastic soda or water bottles idea i thank i can come up with something there  ??? and if you no anybody one here the more heads there is the better ;D and thank you for your help on this

tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on June 26, 2010, 08:11:25 PM
Something like this for my Free Materials Setup of the Water Battery. ;o)

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 26, 2010, 08:37:37 PM
hey that just mite work i found out what a aluminum cans are made of this will help to no

 beverage cans consists mostly of aluminum, but it contains small amounts of other metals as well. These are typically 1% magnesium, 1% manganese, 0.4% iron, 0.2% silicon, and 0.15% copper.

i like youe setup
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 26, 2010, 11:41:45 PM
all
started new test with two cans
 white vinegar and water
vdc       ma
 .635      .269

bleach water
1.027      .273

 lemon juice water
1.116    .141

The Observer
could you let use no what your getting with your setup if you could ples thank you
The Observer is correct in saying the final voltage of a steel/copper water battery is about .6-.7 VDC.
It takes a couple of days for the cell to actual get to that voltage in an open circuit.  The only cost to me is the wire.

Do your vinegar/bleach/lemon-juice batteries give more voltage over time like the steel/copper ones?
What ohmic value of resistor were you using?

Research questions for future study:
Can these batteries be made to act like a backup UPS with a trickle charge applied to them over time?

How long will one hold a charge if it sits on a shelf unused for awhile?  Will the charge decline over a lengthy time period?

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 26, 2010, 11:57:20 PM
ROCHELLE SALT try this stuff out it is used to make piezoelectric crystals which generate electricity ...

Maybe you'll have something then worth a shot...

Maybe try the bargin bottle with 1031% more from walgreens of aloe vera with some rochell salt...

Aloe Vera has an acidic pH which helps to encourage the body to secrete proper amounts of hydrochloric acid to improve digestion and absorption.

Being that it is gel it may last longer IDK worth a shot though!
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 27, 2010, 12:30:46 AM
SALT try this stuff out it is used to make piezoelectric crystals which generate electricity ...
Maybe you'll have something then worth a shot...
Maybe try the bargin bottle with 1031% more from walgreens of  with some rochell salt...
Aloe Vera has an acidic pH which helps to encourage the body to secrete proper amounts of hydrochloric acid to improve digestion and absorption.
Being that it is gel it may last longer IDK worth a shot though!

http://www.reference.com/browse/rochelle+salt

Well, maybe?  This is potassium sodium tartrate.  Dissolved in water, it might act like a salt, since it actually is a salt, but money spent on the stuff and research into voltage generation would be necessary, yes?  Electrically, unless there's an unknown factor somewhere, it's just a chemical salt.  I could check out the price at Walgreen's, if they sell it.

LATER REEDIT:
I checked at Walgreen's:  No Rochelle salt for the same use as Epsom salts to soak in water for sore feet.  However, they did sell an electrolyte for babies who suffer from diarrhea or vomiting to replace natural electrolytes, but it goes for US $6.00/qt (or liter equivalent).  It had salt and other things in it.

It occurs to me that diluted soda is also acidic and inexpensively available everywhere.  Not mush should be needed in tap water.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 27, 2010, 12:33:44 AM
lee


i hate to be dumn but what does What ohmic value of resistor  mine i dont no

will see how long they will hole a charge these can with vinegar/bleach/lemon-juice are going to be my controll i not going to add anything to them and aee how long they will list till the reading are 0 or no water in them my first test is for 5 days and then i and going to see how long i can keep a led on and so no till i have 12v all the time and that even with a load on it and even if it says at 12 v for a week or month it wood be good


infringer
where can you get
ROCHELLE SALT  at ill give a shot and see what happens

thanks for all of the help you guys

tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 27, 2010, 01:19:52 AM
I actually have a big tub of it but usually your local supermarket...

I am just shooting in the dark here no sound principals at all to tell the truth!

I will tell you what maybe I will preform the expirament myself here and save you the hassle !

Hell they sell it on ebay as well I think...

-infringer-
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 27, 2010, 02:32:42 AM
well .813 was the highest voltage read so I think you have me beat on the lemon juice
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: hartiberlin on June 27, 2010, 02:32:45 AM
Well, I am trying now longtime tests
on a graphitepaper-alufoil test cell and so far it
looks quite nice.
The starting voltage without a charge is about 1.45 Volts.
After the electrolyte is a bit degraded, the cell
is down to about 0.9 Volts and stays there for a long time,
if you don´t draw much current from it.
You can also reacharge it several times and it will
behave like a combination of a supercapacitor and
normal galvanic cell.
After the charge it can go up to around 1.9 to 2 Volts
and then slowly goes down to around 1.3 Volts, if you
don´t discharge it.

I will tell more soon,
when I have done a stacked version with more cells
in series with much
more voltage.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 27, 2010, 02:40:42 AM
infringer

i am leting mine set for 24 hours and see what happen then and then iam going to see how long it stay up or if it goes down fast yours mine go up in 24 hours ;D

Stefan.

whats you geting on it sound like you might have somethere


thank for the info you two
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 27, 2010, 06:20:55 AM
Oh crap I already took my cell apart lol dumped all the electrolyte ...

I could try rochell salt and water...

Oddly the salt turned the gel into the consitancy of water maybe this is to be expected but i'm going to let the rochell salt dry out and harden for kicks and see what happens with it...
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on June 27, 2010, 07:24:25 AM
Greetings,

I created a Penny Pill Jar Battery (with Bolt).
1 Jar gives an approximate voltage of .650 Volts.

Two of of them in series run a JT just fine !

Will be interesting to see how long it will last.
The Picture Below should explain.

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 27, 2010, 07:52:18 AM
Funny I used a pill jar as well but a clear one and a pop can which I cut the top off of...
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 27, 2010, 08:06:34 PM
all

my 24 hour test on vinegar/bleach/lemon-juice

vinegar

dcv      ma                           
1.132  .266
to start with   
vdc       ma
 .635      .269


bleach

.885   0.16
to start with
1.027      .273

 lemon juice

1.235   .124
to start with
1.116    .141



lee
thanks ill try them i no someone who has a baby and i no they have some electrolyte of it that i can try


infringer

let us no what happens


The Observer

Penny Pill Jar Battery who now thats useing your head lol what kind of bolt or any old bolt wood work @whats blue paper towel i dont no what that is ?


Stefan.

dont the alufoil get eat up with that set up?


well i am going to try  tomato juice and dill pickle juice and then i am going read the all of the jf post wich will take 10 years lol



tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: hartiberlin on June 27, 2010, 08:12:36 PM

Stefan.

dont the alufoil get eat up with that set up?

tom

Yes, but it latest now almost 3 weeks !

You can do a few recharge cycles.
I am using a bit K2CO3 as the electrolyte in tapwater.
This seems to be a good solution.
Will have to check in more how often I can charge and discharge it
and see how many cycles I can get out of it.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 28, 2010, 04:06:11 AM
wound up loosing some voltage after a few hours I believe it was .734v or something I did not do any charging per say but check these out for chargers they may make some good chargers if you cut the USB cable end off hook up positive to anode and negative to cathode ...

I ordered them www.thingfling.com

obviously you would need roughly 5.5v worth of these to make a difference....
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: infringer on June 28, 2010, 05:08:10 AM
Anyone try jalapeno juice or some other hot pepper with water this may do something not sure...
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: PeteIdl4 on June 28, 2010, 05:40:33 PM
Hello everyone,

I'm just wrapping up a few tests on two cells I made about about 3 days ago, today would be the fourth day. They have been running a joule thief continuously with a white Led. So far they do not show any signs of losing power. I have not added more electrolyte than what I initially started them with which is a small mixture of water, salt, and  sodium bicarbonate. I will be making a video tutorial on these today if anybody is interested in testing them out for themselves. I have a few pictures to leave you guys with showing the cells in action. Thanks to everyone for sharing and keep up the good work.

-Pete
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Mk1 on June 28, 2010, 11:43:10 PM
@all

Have a look at those video
http://www.youtube.com/user/JackTSunn#p/a/u/2/hbS64LblwG8

http://www.youtube.com/user/JackTSunn#p/a/u/1/YwT-ONznU5I

http://www.youtube.com/user/JackTSunn#p/a/u/0/_Oy_iVscnJQ

I also have more on this , i just need to find it ...

Mark

But if i remember correctly it uses carbon and nickel also .

 
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 29, 2010, 12:45:25 AM
lee
i hate to be dumn but what does What ohmic value of resistor  mine i dont no
The ohmic value is the resistance value of the resistor in ohms.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/resistcolcalc.html

This is probably for American industry standard resistors.  A typical carbon film high value resistor "resists" electricity and allows a battery or capacitor to drain more slowly.

http://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/resistor/res_1.html




So, the real reason I'm writing is to say I'm building water batteries differently because the electrodes rust or corrode way too quickly to be useful making them from wire for copper, for instance.

I "invented" this last night:

1) Take a commonly available American 15-16 oz. steel can and a small-diameter 8.4-12 oz. "red Bull energy drink can made of aluminum.
(The aluminum can has to fit inside the steel can.  This is the easiest way to manage this construction.)

2) With a pointed tip razor blade or very sharp knife, scratch a groove hard into the inside of the steel can and the outside of the aluminum can about 10 times; that's all.
(This will expose metal in the cans to the electrolyte through the outside paint or inside safety coating if the cans.  They're conductive now.)

3) Find a polyethylene "Wal-Mart" shopping bag from a past shopping trip.  Flatten the bag against the top of the steel can and then take the pointed razor or knife and stab the inside top of the can about 9-10 times all the way around the inside circumference of the can.

4) Now that you have a circle of 2-sheet polythene discs, tear them out of the hole you made with your fingers and then shove them flat to the bottom of the steel can.  You might need a pencil to arrange them neatly.  Repeat the operation at least 10-15 times or until the bag is too full of holes to continue.
(With 20-30 sheets of plastic discs in the bottom of the can, they will insulate both cans from each other after you pour in the electrolyte.)

5) Take a piece of standard 8 1/2 X 11" sheet of scrap of paper (computer printout scrap is perfect), and cut 10 strips about 1" wide out of it, using the whole thing.  Take 5 of these stacked on each other and roll up one end like you do to an empty tube of toothpaste.  With Scotch tape, tape the end down to keep the roll from unraveling.  You'll need at least 3 of these.

6) Shove the rolled up paper "shims", spaced 120 deg. apart, between the cans to force the aluminum can to remain centered inside the steel can.
(This will keep the electrodes apart and not ground out the cell.)

7) Fill the cans with your electrolyte of choice.  Whatever you favorite is.  I use water,  since it's free.  Lastly, connect the cells together with alligator clip jumper leads from Radio Shack.
(This should be your only cost and they're reusable.)
NOTE:
Steel rusts and aluminum corrodes, so this whole system should be as inexpensive as possible.  Narrow aluminum cans are available on the streets of all large American cities, or you can buy the drinks and consume the contents.  Steel cans are also on the streets or you can buy soup/fruit/etc. cans and reuse them.

I don't have a  camera or graphics software to better describe all this in pictures or on YouTube.  Sorry.

Be aware: 
This is legally the Internet, so my instructions are:  In.  The.  Public.  Domain.
(The date and time of entry is at the top of this post.  That may actually be why it's there--legal protection for the software engineering company who wrote this program.)

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on June 29, 2010, 02:10:42 AM
lee

that should work grate let us no how it work for you


mk1

that looks funney to me when you fine more let us no and thank for the info


PeteIdl4

that looka good cant wate for the vido


i am still reading the jf post all most done i have been reading now for 12 hours i got a lot idais for these cans  almost done with my teasting


thank agin for all the help


tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: PeteIdl4 on June 29, 2010, 01:28:41 PM
Hello Everyone,
Sorry for the late post I got held up with a few other matters. None the less I have the promised video tutorial up on youtube, here are the links:

Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9YqFY-Z0dk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9YqFY-Z0dk)

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeQof7ue9xA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeQof7ue9xA)

These cells have held up very well running a joule thief with a white LED for 4 consecutive days with no added water/electrolyte, and no noticeable change in power. Better performance than what I expected.

P.S. sorry for the audio in the videos my cam is still giving me some problems.

-Pete
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: jeanna on June 30, 2010, 05:01:27 AM
Nice job on the video, Pete.

I was not able to see how you make the connection with the 2 al sides and the 1 copper.
I am assuming you connect the 2 al electrodes together as one then use them connected instead of a single electrode. I wanted to confirm this on the magnesium too. It is a good idea.

I couldn't see through the snarl of wires ( ;) ), but please verify this for me. I like the concept. It is like making a parallel element before adding the copper to give it more mA.

jeanna
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: PeteIdl4 on June 30, 2010, 07:02:27 AM
Nice job on the video, Pete.

I was not able to see how you make the connection with the 2 al sides and the 1 copper.
I am assuming you connect the 2 al electrodes together as one then use them connected instead of a single electrode. I wanted to confirm this on the magnesium too. It is a good idea.

I couldn't see through the snarl of wires ( ;) ), but please verify this for me. I like the concept. It is like making a parallel element before adding the copper to give it more mA.

jeanna

Hi Jeanna,
Thank you and yes, you are correct. Each cell has both Al pieces wired together then used as a single electrode to run in series with the other cells. It is the same with my Magnesium one also, although I've only made one of those. Sorry for the mess of wires in the video ;D

-Pete
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on June 30, 2010, 09:18:31 AM
Greetings,

The Penny Pill  Battery Experiment is going well.
4 days and Counting... the batteries run better on their side for some reason,
LED is running Bright.

Anyways... I do have an Invention.
It could be a World Changer.

I'm thinking a (2 different metal)/(tap water) Battery could run for years if not a decade.
       Could be wrong... but I am an optimist. ;o)

A large scale model of this that charges your 12Volt Battery system used in Solar/ Wind 24/7 might be the ticket.... Yea

Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: jeanna on June 30, 2010, 07:04:16 PM
I moved this over from the joule thief thread since it is about batteries.



Jeanna,

I have not tried charging a NiMh with the pill jars yet...
     At this point it is next to a forgone conclusion that will work.
           The Pill Jars give off Amps and Volts just like any other power supply.
                   The more Pennies the more Amps... (voltage stays the same)

I am curious how long they will last.
.....
I think you kinda figured that.

The Observer
Yes,
My question was about usefulness.
I understand that theoretically it will work.

So, because I was not very clear when I asked it before, (my apologies) I will ask it this way:

Will the recharging ability of these pre-1983 pennies with zinc (slugs? or a) bolt be a reasonable resource over time?
They corrode terribly and if they only last 3 hours before you must take them apart and sand them down, will it be worth it at all?

I am not asking a theoretical question.
It was my first electrical experiment to make a penny/zinc galvanic battery, and yes it worked. I forget how long it was in the electrolyte, but when I walked past it one time, (maybe after only 3 hours)  it had gone out and it was badly corroded. That is why I ask.

thank you,

jeanna
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on June 30, 2010, 07:40:24 PM
Jeanna,

The Penny Pill Jar Joule Thief is on it's 5th day and going strong.
I did put in a tiny bit of water last night.
They also  run a lot better on their sides...(Bolt parallel with the ground).

Because it is running on water... I wonder if there will be much degradation or electroplating.
As long as the ingredients stay the same, I don't see why this wouldn't run for years.
Of course. this is the 5th day...
After a few months I would start talking pretty confidently. ;o)

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 01, 2010, 12:48:17 AM
 all

my test on alum can and copper wire i test everyday and 10 am

 vinegar                                   limon juice                                 
started with
dcv             ma                dcv                    ma                   
0635            .269              1.027              .273                                                     
day 1
1.132            .266            .885                .016
day2
1.110            .178            .738                  .010                       
day 3
1.105          .162              .725                .009
day 4
1.130           .245              .975               .000   
day 5
1.061            .175             .775               .000


and bleach

dcv                     ma
1.116               .141
1.235        .124
1.235            .087
1.199         .047
1.025             .15
.955            .000


so they dont hold up they all fall in voiles and amps next 3 will be
mild pepper juice @ salt and baking soda and electrolyte used for babies


Pete

good vid i am going to make some of them and see what happens

lee

hows your steel and alum can doing?


The Observer


good work but i have? how many do you have to have to light an led without a jf the reason why i am asking is if you dont have a way of makeing a jf just to of them wood not work  now if it takes 20 or 30 to get lets say 20 v all the time now that wood be nice  ;D  ???you have it all the time but if it run down  with a load on it  we wood have to add more water to which is good  ill thank i am going to see howmany Pill Jar it takes and how long it last with out an jf


Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 01, 2010, 01:44:08 AM
lee
hows your steel and alum can doing?
@old man
I've been rather busy with time-consuming personal issues.  But, my prototype steel-aluminum can water batteries leveled off at around .4 volts or so.

I have resistors, and a DMM, so I can check the operation of batteries I have now.  The first one, by-the-way, had no scratches on the outside of the aluminum can, and it gave about .01-.03 V right away.  Scratching the can is important.  Otherwise, performance is very poor.

My immediate goal is to build a (simple!) electrical relay inverter to run an emergency backup 6W fluorescent light from either AA/AAA Radio Shack batteries or otherwise can water batteries for free.  30-40 ea. cans should give 12VDC.  They'll be a lot of space on the floor, but they're sturdy, simple and free.  Components are found on the streets, except for reusable jumper wires.  Building one takes me about 25-35 minutes.

Here's some wiring diagrams:

http://www.eleccircuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/buzzer.gif
http://www.eleccircuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/ignition-coil-high-voltage-generators.gif
httP://img29.imageshack.us/i/schematic2.jpg/

You see what I mean?  The focus is "simple" and "reliable".
The 3rd circuit in the list just needs a battery connection.  The fan might also be done away with altogether.  The yellow leads can go to a resistor and separate power supply, although the LED's would be experiencing square-wave AC voltage.  The LED's can also be replaced by a step-up transformer or counter-wound toroid, for instance.  Lots of possibilities for experimentation.

I myself will be using Radio Shack components, since there is no surplus new/used retail electronic parts distributor in San Francisco.  And I don't trust the delivery reliability of the USPS or the cost of shipping.

Maybe later I'll try and build a useful, medium-to-high voltage Lakhovsky radiating coil and experiment with that.  In a while, though.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 01, 2010, 02:42:48 AM
lee

them diagrams are good i am going to have to try them later
there is a lot there  i am trying to find the right electrolyte combo
found around the house thats good and last a long time and then ill go from there you no thank out side the box i hate boxs lol ;D ;D  i am going to test somemore thing in a day or two i find most of my stuff in the trash or pp give me stuff i go bye why bye it when you can find it lol

tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 01, 2010, 03:10:29 AM
Old Man,

Well, it's true, a JT cheats the system by using the energy from the ferrite core that flips the dipoles back to random... that produces the spikes.

However, I would guess since they (the Pill Jars)  are putting out .5 - .6 Volts... it would take about 6 of them to light a regular 3 Volt Led.

So far... all I've added to the system was a small amount of water.

The Observer

P.S.  I am looking to build some bigger models using scrap metal of some sort.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 01, 2010, 05:35:43 AM
lee
them diagrams are good i am going to have to try them later ...
I have several more; I was concentrating on mechanical systems.  Electronics is quieter and lasts longer, but is fairly often more complicated as well.  Multivibrators are popular square wave inverters; reliable, too.
Quote
... there is a lot there  i am trying to find the right electrolyte combo found around the house thats good and last a long time and then ill go from there ...
Lemon juice was your best one so far, yes?  It might get a little expensive if you use a lot.  I'm still thinking of soda, which is acidic.  I drink it, anyway.
I wonder if galvanic action between the electrolyte and electrode(s) is something to be concerned about?
Quote
... you no thank out side the box i hate boxs lol ;D ;D  i am going to test somemore thing in a day or two i find most of my stuff in the trash or pp give me stuff i go bye why bye it when you can find it lol
tom
Right.  I look around the downtown area for cans and bottles, so things are free when I find them, too.

Will try and write in a few days.  I'll be back.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Mk1 on July 01, 2010, 12:22:46 PM
@all

I have uploaded a study made on aluminum battery simple construction and clear detail .

to get access to the download

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=396

Enjoy !
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 01, 2010, 05:29:57 PM
mk1


i will read it and thank for the info


lee

I wonder if galvanic action between the electrolyte and electrode(s) is something to be concerned about?
 that why i download a 2009  chemistry book and if anyone needs a copy i can sent it to them  just let me no


i sould have named this subject any batterys that you can make form stuff from around the house lol ;D instead of  aluminum can and copper wire batterys lol  ;D



tom


Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 01, 2010, 07:38:40 PM
Greetings,

I like the Batteries from stuff around the House Idea... ;o)

Anyways,

I'm on about the 6th day of my Joule Thief running off the Pill Jar Batteries... things look pretty good.
I put a 200uf capacitor across the Pill Jars as I saw someone mention that was a good idea... it did make the Led Brighter, so I left it..
Also, it seems as if current production has increased over the days !!!

     I really don't think the Water is going to eat away the Pennies or Bolt quickly.
     But only time will tell and I don't claim to know all the Chemistry behind it.
     I believe that Water takes electrons from the metals revealing an Electric Potential Difference.

I am thinking if this thing goes for a few months with no real degradation... I have found Free Power.
Free Enough anyways... if a Penny/Water/Bolt setup is going to last for years.

The Oxford Bell has been ringing for 170 years off of a couple Piles !
                   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell
Although it may cheat the energy system through creating motion by means of a static Electric Field. (something to be contemplated)

The next project is the Penny Power Cube.
     - 4 Nantucket Nectar Bottle Penny/Bolt/Water Batteries (1 should equal about 4 Pill Jars)
     - inside 2 bottoms of 1/2 cut Milk Gallons to create a stack-able Cube.
     - One Cell is .6 Volts... So the Cube (of 4 Bottles) can be wired to give off   .6 V  or   1.2 V    or     2.4 V.

The idea is that 11 or 12 of the 1.2 Volt Model would Charge a 12 Volt Array ... 24hours/7days a week.
This array then would power the house (like solar) with the Array able deliver appreciable amps when there is demand.

Regards,
                The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 01, 2010, 08:08:31 PM
Lee:
"I wonder if galvanic action between the electrolyte and electrode(s) is something to be concerned about?"

lee
... that why i download a 2009  chemistry book and if anyone needs a copy i can sent it to them  just let me no ...
@Tom
That sounds pretty good.  How big is this book?  Does it come in .PDF?  I have a 1GB SanDisk to download it to.
Quote
... i sould have named this subject any batterys that you can make form stuff from around the house lol ;D instead of  aluminum can and copper wire batterys lol  ;D ...
I get paid tomorrow (Fri), so I'm going to get some parts.  One of these is a different kind of relay.  The Radio Shack relay I bought had a good coil (160 ohms) when I started, but after I soldered wires to the coil terminal pins, it was open!  0 ohms.

I'll get a larger 12 VDC automobile relay from an auto parts store and do away with soldering---just use jumper wires w/alligator clips. 

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 01, 2010, 10:42:58 PM
Observer


i love what your are doing keep up the good work :o


lee


yes the book is pdf and the size is 135 mb if your wont it just let me no


tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 02, 2010, 01:07:24 AM
old man said:
Quote
Observer
i love what your are doing keep up the good work :o
@The Observer
You have a good idea with your proposed, approximate "UPS" system.  Good work, as Old Man said.
Quote
lee
yes the book is pdf and the size is 135 mb if your wont it just let me no
Sure, I'd like to see it.  I can go to more than one borrowed computer and try to load and run the file.  These computers have professional-quality .PDF compilers on them, so the only thing stopping it would be individual system constraints.

Just PM me with the attached file.  Or send it to my e-mail address as an attachment.  Either way should work.  Whichever is easiest for you.  Thanks.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 02, 2010, 01:25:07 AM
...I put a 200uf capacitor across the Pill Jars as I saw someone mention that was a good idea... it did make the Led Brighter, so I left it..
Also, it seems as if current production has increased over the days !!! ...
I hadn't thought of that, but it sounds good to me.  I can get several sizes of electrolytic capacitors when I get paid.  Good idea.
Quote
... I really don't think the Water is going to eat away the Pennies or Bolt quickly.
     But only time will tell and I don't claim to know all the Chemistry behind it.
     I believe that Water takes electrons from the metals revealing an Electric Potential Difference.
@The Observer
I didn't know myself, so I went looking on GOOGLE:

http://courses.washington.edu/bhrchem/c456/ch11.pdf

You may be onto something, here.  But you're correct, a redox chemical reaction is involved.
Quote
I am thinking if this thing goes for a few months with no real degradation... I have found Free Power.
Free Enough anyways... if a Penny/Water/Bolt setup is going to last for years.

The Oxford Bell has been ringing for 170 years off of a couple Piles !
                   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_Electric_Bell
Although it may cheat the energy system through creating motion by means of a static Electric Field. (something to be contemplated)
I read somewhere awhile ago that when Edison's wet cell batteries wet dry while being used in a telegraph office, they continued to work just as before!  Really!!  That was the story.  I was so surprised, I never forgot the subject of the article; it was years ago, though.  He knew how to design batteries!

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 02, 2010, 07:23:27 PM
all


i found this on info i thank it will help


http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/elchem/ec6.html


Observer

did you use penny after 1983 or before  or any pennys  why i am asking is the one after 1982 are 95% zink and the ones before are copper

heres a chart

1793–1857 100% copper
1857–1864 88% copper, 12% nickel (also known as NS-12)
1864–1942 bronze (95% copper, 5% tin and zinc)
1943 zinc-coated steel (also known as steel penny)
1944–1946 brass (95% copper, 5% zinc)
1946–1962 bronze (95% copper, 5% tin and zinc)
1974 Experimental aluminum variety
1962–1982 brass (95% copper, 5% zinc)
1982–Present* 97.5% zinc core, 2.5% copper plating


lee

pm me where i can send that book

thank you all keep up the good work

tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 03, 2010, 01:01:10 AM
Big M,

            Yep, the cap must take energy from the battery on the down time when the JT isn't using it... then adds to the next pulse when needed.

             I'm sure someone will tell ya that the metals have to degrade so no Conservation Laws are Broken. 
                   Might be true if an acid is used, but water?... isn't there metal found on ShipWrecks 100's of years old?
                   This is one of those things I am going to  find out for myself.
                   If it does run for a long time... I'm sure the propaganda says it doesn't.

                   Interesting... the Edison batteries.
                    I'm sure he knew how to make them as that was about the only source of Electric Power at that point in time.

Old Man,

       I wasn't very aware of the difference in pennies when I first made the Pill Jar.
       What I did was pick out the shiniest looking pennies... those are the new ones with Zinc apparently.

       Unfortunately, I noticed at the Hardware Store.. that the Bolt is Zinc/Steel/Something
                                That means I'm matching Zinc to Zinc... theoretically not the best match up.
                                 I may have to construct a Pill Jar with just the Copper Pennies and see if there is a difference.

       I did make a Nantucket Bottle Cell last night (see above diagram)... with a larger Bolt and about 500 ($5) Pennies.
       It does work.. puts out same voltage ~ .6 V     and more current than Pill Jar.. but not as much as I expected or hoped for.

Best Regards,
                      The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 03, 2010, 02:06:35 AM
 The Observer

hay you mite be on to something there are your frist one still going i tested sink on sink i go a little nothing like you got and copper on coper and nothing good so it mite sink and copper and steel or something elase i am going to teast every setup there is and see whats happen your doing good it wont take much there something we are missing we just need to find it because i dont see why it wont work your setup is good the way you have it it shoud have 12 dcv and  if all elas fell start over  ;D



ok i have tryed it all and have no idia what is happening but my are getting the same as yours no matter what combo i do so we no it no just the penney or just the bolt we have to have both or it wont work  i hope this helped  :) oh will just as long as it works thats all that matters  ;D

lee
 ill send that to you no sat cent i know how todo it  :D

keep you the good work everyone and thank you all

tom


Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 03, 2010, 06:09:20 PM
Greetings,

Update on the Pill Jars.

I experimented a bit with my NaNtucket Cell Last night.
I guess I am doing Copper from the outside of the pennies to Zinc on the Outside of the Bolt.
Anyways, I discovered that it ran at higher Volts and Amps with No Water... Just the Damp Paper Towel in Between.

So I changed the Pill Jars Running the JT to a tiny bit of water at the bottom to soak up into the paper towel.
It's running brighter and a bit more stable too ( I had to jostle the Jars from time to time before to keep em going)

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 04, 2010, 12:03:11 AM
Big M,
            Yep, the cap must take energy from the battery on the down time when the JT isn't using it... then adds to the next pulse when needed.
I imagine so, too.  Would that be why the toroids work to well?
Quote
       
             Might be true if an acid is used, but water?... isn't there metal found on ShipWrecks 100's of years old?
Please keep in mind there are no acids in sea water, either.  In tap water, there are actually things like phosphates, sulfates, chlorides, nitrates, etc., in trace amounts.  Enough to cause chemical changes in refined, smelted and forged metals, though.
Quote
              Interesting... the Edison batteries.
              I'm sure he knew how to make them as that was about the only source of Electric Power at that point in time.
I remember later:  Edison built or improved on the work of earlier electrical engineers like Marconi or Stubblefield and others, if he knew of them.  Some of his batteries were also earth batteries, and good ones, too.  That's why they could sometimes last decades.  I imagine his application determined what he did with his batteries.  The invention cited by old man was a evidently free-standing one.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 04, 2010, 12:53:38 AM
all

here one of Edison batterys patten that i found looks easy to do

tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 04, 2010, 05:07:31 AM
all
here one of Edison batterys patten that i found looks easy to do
tom
@tom and @all
Here's another that's just as simple:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=5sFMAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA1&dq=battery&as_drrb_ap=q&as_minm_ap=0&as_miny_ap=&as_maxm_ap=0&as_maxy_ap=&as_drrb_is=b&as_minm_is=1&as_miny_is=1860&as_maxm_is=1&as_maxy_is=1900&num=100&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's made with silver chloride, which may not be easy to come by.

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 05, 2010, 06:44:26 AM
Working on my 4th of July Project today...

More to come soon...

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 05, 2010, 07:12:46 AM
Hello,

For the 4th I created the first in a series of Lamps hopefully powered by a Penny Pill Jar Setup.

Being my 1st Step Toward Energy Independence... This will be a 4th of July to Remember !

The goal is to have a Joule Thief do the lighting, but the  light's circuit will have to be a start.
   -note ... the  light's circuit has no inductor yet lights 1 bright LED w/ 1.2 V NiCad
            ... the Pill Jars (2.4 V in series) do not work directly in solar light's circuit, but light a JT just fine (brightly)

This lamp is going to be powered by both the ambient light in the room and the Pill Jars.
It has already changed the world as I have not turned on the lights I normally would have tonight.  ;o)

Best Regards,
                      The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 05, 2010, 08:48:15 PM
@The Observer
With respect to your Post #60,

Good going!  Reminds me of my steel/aluminum can water cells.  I need a few more parts to attempt to repeat your experiment with what I have handy.
(I don't have the software you have to be able upload data to OU's server, but I can reference the 'Web wherever possible.)

--Lee
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: old man on July 06, 2010, 07:00:10 PM
all

here is my test on pepper juice,salt@baking soda,electorlyes for babys

pepper juice

dcv                        ma
start
1.372                    .375
24  hours later
1.282                     .165

salt@baking soda

start with
dcv                          ma
1.175                     .825
24 hours
1.168                      .430

electrolytes for babes

start with
dcv                        ma
.955                        .105 
24 hours
.001                         .000


i will be starting a test in a day or so


Observer

you are doing good with it  it looking good  is it holding up good mine loses power after a day but it could be my setup i and trying something elas will let everyone no later if it works or not  ;D


lee


i am still trying to get bthe book to you i mite have to put it on here for everyone to have ;D




tom
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: b_rads on July 07, 2010, 09:23:34 PM
@old man
I hope it is ok with you to post this in your thread.
I have made what I will call my “RX Water Battery”.
The first 2 were made 5 weeks ago – joined - and are putting out a constant 1.3v unloaded.
RX Containers – trash
Ground wire from romex, 15 inches - recycled
Galvanized steel wire, 18 inches – pennies
LED (20 asst from RS) – not expensive
Squealing like a little girl when it actually works – priceless
Below is a pic of my latest test – after approx 6 hrs I had to remove 3x5mm red leds, 1x3mm red led is still shining brightly with no sign yet of quitting.

Having this much fun should be wrong!
Brad S.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Mk1 on July 07, 2010, 09:24:23 PM
@all

Guys have a look a this fire from a potato.

One potato emptied in the middle filed with salt and toothpaste , 2 wire they seem the same material , so i don't thing galvanic here , 5 minute and voila enough current to start a fire , its probably a trick but if real really worth looking into .

http://wickedhowtos.com/index.php/2009/05/28/how-to-make-fire-with-a-potato-potato-battery-cotton-ball-fire/

Potato juice any one !
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on July 07, 2010, 10:05:48 PM
BRad...

Great Work.. and you aren't even using a Joule Thief.

The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: jeanna on July 07, 2010, 11:27:53 PM
@all

Guys have a look a this fire from a potato.

One potato emptied in the middle filed with salt and toothpaste , 2 wire they seem the same material , so i don't thing galvanic here , 5 minute and voila enough current to start a fire , its probably a trick but if real really worth looking into .

http://wickedhowtos.com/index.php/2009/05/28/how-to-make-fire-with-a-potato-potato-battery-cotton-ball-fire/

Potato juice any one !

That's a funny one, Mark.
I could see some little sparks coming out of the wire.
crazy??

toothpaste gel?

jeanna
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Mk1 on July 07, 2010, 11:47:22 PM
@jeanna

I don't know but its almost like some sort of self charging cap potato  ::).

Its strange , salt and toothpaste my guess is we will know soon ...

Mark
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: b_rads on July 08, 2010, 03:55:37 AM
@The Observer
Thank you for the kind words and yes you are correct, I am not using a joule thief.  This A is going for 6 full days and no visible degradation.
@old man
You mentioned the Edison Battery and I looked at your attachment.  Something I found interesting was that he placed his copper below the zinc.  I messed with copper and magnesium ribbon last night and (not scientific) noticed that my LED was brighter when the magnesium was on top of the copper and as close as possible to the copper.  I am attaching v.2 of my “RX Water Battery” for your review.  So far it looks promising, though time will tell.
@all
I am even worse than a newbie in that my knowledge of energy would not fill a thimble.  Please feel free to offer advice – but please keep it simple or I will probably not understand.
Thanks,
Brad S.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Mk1 on July 13, 2010, 12:18:42 PM
@all

Ok i made some pictures , this is a aluminum /copper cell , it has been active for over one week , copper is only plated on each side of really slim PC board
and the aluminum you will see in the picture .

I was checking the voltage and amps it has over 22 mili , so i decided to take a picture i started playing with is it went down  :-\ , this design is really temperamental , i will keep at it ...

Size 470 millimeters by 40 .

 
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Mk1 on July 13, 2010, 10:56:22 PM
@all

I bought supplied , Epsom and cotton , the cotton should improve the stability , and Epsom boost the amps , i will try a 3 layer stack , to get 1.5v out of it .

My plan is to use the battery has the core for a Joule thief circuit ...

Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: b_rads on July 13, 2010, 11:35:09 PM
@all
Just some random thoughts about these batteries.
Object: Best methods to optimize output and minimize fuel consumption (Anode).
What is the best Cathode/Anode/Electrolyte combination?
What is the simplest build method to replace fuel source (Anode)?
Seek the most environmentally safe combination of materials.
What is the best use or storage method for output from these batteries?

I agree with others that have indicated that the Cathode can be a more expensive part of the battery since it should have a very long life, and the Anode could be recycled waste – such as aluminum, galvanized nails, steel wire, etc.  For the Cathode, I am currently using an electric motor carbon brush 1 ¼”x1/2”x1/4” with very good results.

Thus far – if I were to experience a power outage, I know I can build batteries to power lights or a small radio.  This is a very comforting feeling.

For general info on batteries – I have found these references interesting.
http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/echem/batteries/batteries.html
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/battery2.htm
http://www.mpoweruk.com/cell_construction.htm

@Mk1
I really like your build – I think you are onto something with this.
Brad S.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: jeanna on July 19, 2010, 06:31:00 PM
This fellow just subscribed to my youtube channel. He has a very interesting battery with instructions.
It uses the carbon from charcoal and it is in an aluminum base which is the anode.
He is getting 1.6v and 15mA because he uses clean potash (= cleaned wetted wood ash from a wood stove)
I am impressed... Talk about recycled!
Please have a look. All the information needed is on that video. It is a good job.

http://www.youtube.com/user/greycom123#p/a/u/1/5h1tQn4Qyjc (http://www.youtube.com/user/greycom123#p/a/u/1/5h1tQn4Qyjc)

jeanna

... and in the end he uses a garden light circuit (EE's jtc) for a light, so this is great for anyone who does not have access to a  toroid or for rainy days use with the garden light.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: b_rads on July 20, 2010, 04:13:12 AM
Not as eco friendly as the video “Jeanna” posted above.  However, this is a very easy to make emergency light.  Fire starter, carbon brush, hacked solar light, and 20% bleach solution.  The AA battery was removed from the light.  I also tried this with table salt (heavy toll on the magnesium) and the output was about the same. Runs for 2 full days before the light dims – stirring the electrolyte will give temporary boost. 
Love all the builds everyone is doing and all the ideas floating around.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: b_rads on August 17, 2010, 08:19:18 PM
See Reply #63
48 days and still running.  ;D
After several days (10 maybe) I added 2-1x3mm red leds for a total of 3 leds.
I have not added any water, just let it happily light the leds without interuption.
I do occasionally check with a meter and it is consistantly putting out 1.57v to 1.62v.
@The Observer
How are your Pill Batteries holding up?
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: The Observer on August 17, 2010, 09:05:52 PM
B-Rad,

Thanks for the post.

I have had one pill Jar lighting an led for around 40 days.
New water filled 1/2 way about once a week.
It is losing some "running voltage" I call it.
From above .5V   to    below .5 v.

I believe the zinc coating from the steel bolt is leaching into the water...
   therefore I am transitioning from a  Copper-Zinc setup  to Copper-Steel setup.

Best Regards,
                      The Observer
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: Xaero_Vincent on August 17, 2010, 11:26:36 PM
This thread about homemade batteries made me come up with a cool experiment.

One of my favorite alleged free energy devices is Ben Schwartz's old rod generator prototype.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9xiGhVeLEY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9xiGhVeLEY)

I know how their claimed to work but not the materials used to create them. But it should be possible to create a working replica as a water battery, although the power output is far less.
Title: Re: aluminum can and copper wire batterys
Post by: triffid on July 30, 2012, 12:27:30 AM
test