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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: AB Hammer on June 11, 2010, 07:26:12 PM

Title: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 11, 2010, 07:26:12 PM
Greetings All

 This string is to help those who want to build there ideas into gravity wheels. Drawing and simulations are fine but until a real build is done. Your idea will only remain an idea. I am a part of Arrache, a group of private builders. But there are several of open source people out there, and this string is to help give information on how to build a wheel with what you may have available or can purchase.

 For example - Most all of test wheels will be of a full axle (the axle goes through the wheel), split axle (two side attached normally on the edges and an single axle on each side but don't need double bearings)  and a single side axle ( A flush to one side axle but the need of two sets of bearings to level the disk or wheel)

More what will be discussed will be. How to build with less friction, and more control of the actions.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 12, 2010, 03:39:10 AM
Bearings for smaller test wheels need to have the grease cleaned out of them and use only a light oil. Larger bearings for larger wheels, can also be done this way but not always necessary.

1st you remove the cover by prying carefully not to dig into the bearing which can cause damage to the guide that hold the bearing balls.

2nd soak into mineral spirits, sloshing and spinning the bearings to clean out the grease.

3rd dry and blow out if you have an air compressor available.

You can also just in some types of bearings, just spray a little WD-40 into the bearings to loosin them up. This is what I like doing with larger bearings for larger wheels. 


Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 12, 2010, 03:30:09 PM
How to cut a wheel with a true center.

When using plywood, mdf or many other types. You will want a well centered wheel. I like to use a wood router with a circle guide. Test wheels up to 3 feet. A 1/2 inch hole is what I use. for smaller wheels 1ft or less I use 1/4 or 3/8 holes. Before you cut, make sure you have your 4 corners marked for reference. I learned a trick from Ralph that if you measure square off and mark a cross and drill your center hole you will end up with 4 equal pie sections for references for what ever design you are going to do.

If you are going to try some form of ball/disk wheel, and you need to cut it out of wood. You will want a template for your layout. Scroll saws, jigsaws, and the later rotary side cutters to make your cuts. A router can cut grooves making tracks or you will need a flat surface and you may have to clean it up with files and sandpaper.

For those who have a little spare change. You can go to a toy store and get an erector set, legos, or other builder toys for quick modeling. Never underestimate modeling toys.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 12, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
If anybody has questions or suggestions please post, I don't have all the answers so please join in. This string is to help everybody. Also to promote build testing for only a build can be used as evidence of a running wheel.

Thanks
Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 12, 2010, 05:49:11 PM

   Alan,
 You can take it personal if you like, but I think when people see what I am building, they might build one themelves.

Greetings Jim

 If that is what they want to do? That is their choice.
This string is to help with how to build, not what to build. Their are many things that cause problems with the smoothness of operations with wheels, and is open to anybody who wants to add any idea on the how to build.

 For instance
 If you need a wheel for some basic test. A bicycle wheel can become a very good wheel for some types of test and constructions.

You can show how to build jigs for duplication of parts.

As long as it is just the construction of and references of. even youtube videos and other web sights.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 12, 2010, 08:44:00 PM
  Out of curiosity, when is your group going to show something ?
I've posted a number of videos and pics of what I have built and why changes were made.
 Here is an example of a modular building technique. I think it helps people if you show examples Alan.
Just curious Alan, is all you've built just 10 inch wheels ?

edited to add; the layout shown allows for the arms to have a levered action. It allows for various concepts to be tried requiring only a little modification.
 What I have found that helps is discussing math and have done lots of it. It helps me to understand what I try.

edited to add; until my present build, all I used was a drill and a jig saw. If you can make a radius guide you're comfortable with for a jig saw, that might work better than a rotary tool, more power less binding.

Greetings Jim

You asked
Quote
Out of curiosity, when is your group going to show something ?


When we work together on a project all has a say. When we are working with someone else's design it is up to them if they want it shown. When it is our own we can post it unless we added the group to the project. I have allot I can post but I won't post prospective runners until all protections are in place.

Quote
Just curious Alan, is all you've built just 10 inch wheels ?

No, They range from 10 inches to 6 ft not counting stands or extended arm effects. The most common size I like working with is 2 to 3 ft diameter. This way they can be carried into buildings for show. But if you have a working design? you should be able to build it small. Thus the rumors that Bessler had a small running wheel that he showed as well.

Here is an Aluminum wheel blank that has allot of makings on it for reference. I have build several designs on this one wheel. Also here is one on it.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 13, 2010, 03:18:24 AM
Jim

 Please lets keep this string on how to build only. I am busy with armor and a wheel that the mechanism lifts 4lbs 4times higher by 1lb down, for any other detail conversation at this time, except for this, how to build a test wheel string.

Thank you
Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 13, 2010, 03:21:43 PM
Lets look at stands for the wheels. If you look back at the wheels I posted and look at the stand. This one was designed to work on the wheels and only set in a V to hold the bearing.
Stands need to be of a sturdy material and braces with a long base to deal with the shifting of weights. Side to side just needs to be sturdy. I like stands that I can turn on their sides for a gravity wheel can not run on its side, unless the design is for on its side. This is under the assumption of a runner, or will need to have a breaking mechanism installed.

Here is a picture a simple wooden stand that works well.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 13, 2010, 05:16:11 PM

  It is knowing how to build certain details that would let someone know how to build a test wheel.

All base/blank wheels or devices need to be balanced before you add anything to it. Then what is added to it has to be equally supported to it mounts to keep from twisting effects. For instance a single arm 1/8 inch thick only has an 1/8 inch stable base but if you have two 1/8 inch bases 3 inches apart you then have 3 1/4 inch stable base.  Then it depends on how you mount. From 2 sides like a split axle or duel sided wheel is allot stronger than a single side which depends on how strong the material is to start with.

 This string is also for those who are building and have for instance a mounting problem or structure problem and if they ask, I and other builders can help them out.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 14, 2010, 06:33:03 PM
To All

 By this week end, my son and step son will be building on some wheels and some step by step for making the basic wheel will be videoed. Then we can post them here on the forum. I am trying to make this a family effort. We will not go into designs but will show some test and applications to use as reference.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 14, 2010, 11:48:50 PM
Here is an early photo of my parts collection and a couple of test wheels that I played with to learn the problems of a gravity wheel approach. Collecting thing you may be able to use is a good step at getting ready to build. Also a wheel I showed my step son could be built out of an old erector set. I used the MT1 to show some of what has to be overcome.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 15, 2010, 01:10:44 AM
Making or finding weights

What I do is purchase bar stock 1 to 3 inch diameter and use a metal cutting band saw to cut my weights to the size I want. Then I drill out the center hole to the size I need. Mostly they are 1/4 inch holes for my armor work I use allot of 1/4 inch bar for bar cages for the SCA helms I build. Here is a sample of those.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 15, 2010, 03:13:51 AM
I am locking this string to keep P-Motion from causing problems but I will keep posting information on it for the good of those who want to build.

Alan

edited to add, That several post of P-Motion has already been deleted from this string.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 16, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
To All

 I believe it is best to leave it unlocked for everyone else for it is unfair if you want to ask any question on construction of a test wheel. I am not going to react to a Troll no more, I will just have him deleted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

http://www.flayme.com/troll/#Why

But I think P-Motio quilfies for Internet Stalker for he has followed me to other forums and was banned for his actions.

http://www.flayme.com/stalker/
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 17, 2010, 01:02:15 AM
@ All

Springs are an interesting thing and you can make your own leaf spring from band saw blades and just grind off the teeth then heat with a torch till cobalt blue and quench in water or oil. And for those who follow bessler. Here is a wheel I did and tested that blended the leaf spring effect MT18 with the arrangement of MT19. You will notice the same Aluminum wheel from the other before in this string. You will be able to reuse your basic disk wheels for many test. No it did not run.  ::)

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: JEJEHO on June 17, 2010, 02:30:10 PM
Hi Alan,

Nice work.

Nixon
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Alexioco on June 17, 2010, 07:38:15 PM
Alan

I could do with some advice...

How can I make an axle for a wooden wheel so it rotates smoothly like with bearings and also strong so i can attach weights to one side of the wheel without it tilting?

Alex
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 17, 2010, 11:52:47 PM
Greetings Alex

 Wood to wood tends to be a lot of friction so what you want to do is bushing effect like in wagon wheels. Sleeves of copper or brass was use in chariots up to wagons yes iron/steel was use in the later periods.
 First to use it for a wheel. You would want to turn or carve your wood down to be as smooth and true as possible.
 Second you need to know what type of stand you are trying to put it on.  Between columns braced high and low. Similar to the stand earlier in the string supporting high and low you would want to taper The end of the wooden axle and sleeve it in brass or copper and then you want like sleeve to fit them in, similar to but not at the angle of the wagon style wheel. Even though this picture come from the cannon carriage I and a friend Mike built for Rev-War reenactment. It is a good example of the taper but you would want yours strait to keep the wheel strait. Not off angle like needed for the carriage.
 Note in the second picture you will see the bushing on the axle part only do not have to go all around but can be plates screwed into the axle to keep steady but this is for the greasing and to be able to hold the extra grease. Also the axle on a wagon or carriage does not turn. Only the wheels. So the plate bushing only had to be on the weighted side unlike the picture the shows it only on the top side it is best to have it on both side. The picture was found to be only on the top side which by itself was wrong. We believed the artist meant to put it on both side like most did.

Third. Lets look as an easy way and just purchase sleeves bushings to go over the ends and let them sit in a u shaped bushing for ease of oiling. Make sure you have larger washers on each end and pend to keep to keep it from sliding out of the u bushing.  ;)

Also make you axle larger out of wood but taper for the bushing also to keep from tilting you may want to go to a duel side mount between two wheel disk or a framework.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Alexioco on June 18, 2010, 01:07:07 AM
Wow Alan

I am completely lost now lol I need to use a metal axle yes to avoid friction but i want to use ball bearings around the axle to help make it smooth like a bicycle wheel is smooth and sturdy.

Alex
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: grayone on June 18, 2010, 01:16:10 AM
Alex; My Step-Dad is cutting leather for some sports armor. I will let him know you posted.

Michael
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: MrMag on June 18, 2010, 01:40:15 AM
Wow Alan

I am completely lost now lol I need to use a metal axle yes to avoid friction but i want to use ball bearings around the axle to help make it smooth like a bicycle wheel is smooth and sturdy.

Alex

Yes, I thought it looked a little complicated too. What size (thickness/diameter) of wheel are you thinking about?
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 18, 2010, 03:35:53 AM
Greetings Alex

 Yes I am sometime bad about to much information. LOL

For smaller wheels up to 3 ft as long as you are not trying to put 60lbs + on it you can use 1/2 inch all thread but if heavy you need to go up to 3/4 inch or 1 inch. I use flange bearings in steel tubing or wood but don't tighten them to tight for if they get any twist in the mounting. They may bind and not role as good. A little WD 40 will loosen up the grease. On the disk I use wide thick washer lock washers and of course nuts, but  I use lock nuts on the ends to regulate the tightness of the on the flange bearings. Now for split axles I use carriage bolts and 1/4 inch all thread in 6 to 8 placings around with spacers or nuts and lock washers to stabilize the edge of the wheel and keep them aliened to each side. If you are wanting a single side single disk you can do the same with a carriage bolt with a long thread about 6 to 8 inches long and then you will need 2 mounts separated apart by 4 to 5 inches for you flange bearing, but you will have to have a base that exceeds by front of the single face wheel to balance the stand from to much weight applied to the wheel. For those who are not sure what a flange bearing is. It is a bearing with a flange or some could fall it a rim to stop the bearing from going through the hole for the smaller size of the bearing. You can get these from most hardware stores. I use TSC. But when you get past the test wheel stage. You will start looking at larger bar stock and what is called pillow block bearing setups on steel frames. If you build smaller you will build less expensive and more often, with better chances. 

Personal note to Alex; If you look at that video of the one wheel you will see a single side of a split axle set up to do the design I showed you.

I hope this helps

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 18, 2010, 04:18:50 AM
Here is another view of my wooden stand

From left to wright. 1/2 inch all thread  with a lock nut next to the flange bearing through to the wheel blanks which have a nut then lock washer to a larger thick washer and on the other side then out through another flange bearing and another lock nut. The lock nuts are to keep from to much pressure on the flange bearings so they will spin freely with minimum friction. What is on top of the stand is similar to Bessler's pendulums but they are of all steel. Note in the front view picture that there are no nuts or washers on the inside of the bearing for they are not needed.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 18, 2010, 02:30:29 PM
@ All

 When building a wheel you will want to lay out your parts before ever building to double check. I like to call it the "Check check double check method". Another is "measure twice drill once method".

Here is an early stage photo of a wheel I was working on and then the finished design.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on June 19, 2010, 11:09:41 PM
Regarding friction, there will always be friction. I can see the reason for having as less friction as possible, but I do not see the point in special treatment of bearings to make them even smoother with less friction. If a motor, driven by electric energy, or some how driven by "unknown" forces, the friction is not an issue anymore. Because there is plenty of over unity, the need of a super low friction bearing is just not necessary because it does not steal that much of energy anyway. I feel that most people in this forum is talking about 100,00000001% over unity, because the talk about these bearings are SO important to have going as smooth and frictionless as possible.

I want plenty of over unity in small devices. An over unity in a nano scale is not interesting, because the possible power plant will be so enormous you could harness 1W of a plant that is bigger than the Moon...

Think big, but small ;)
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 20, 2010, 12:04:20 AM
Vidar

 The reason for removal of the grease in the bearings is for the test wheels. This way if you finds continuous action you will be able to build up from there. In a small test wheel this will allow a more positive understanding of what you are doing, and not a misunderstanding thinking you may not have a non runner due to stiff bearings. When you build the larger wheels this is not as much a problem.  ;)

Alan

PS I like wheels that can overcome allot of friction and have plenty of energy over that as well.  ;D
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Cloxxki on June 20, 2010, 12:10:18 AM
I agree. So often I read about gravity wheels that they "almost" ran by themselves. Well, a beam stuck to an axle comes even closer.

All my life, since a little boy really, I've been bugged by friction, as it should be somehow used to work FOR us, not against us. Friction is so powerful, and easy to obtain. It is NOT nothing, it just always has the opposite agenda to our devices, making them work less efficiently.

Enter: the DDWFTTW technology, proven beyond doubt now by the Blackbird team of California. Wheels on a vehicle, pushed along by the tail wind, are geared to also turn a propellor, in airplane mode. Yes, the prop takes energy from the wheels. Yet, adds more thrust. Cart accelerates past wind speed, and already they attained 2.86x wind speed, travelling dead down wind. This is not over unity, it's tapping into the power of the wind, and having a low-loss vehicle to exploit it.
If a similar trick could be pulled on gravity rather than the wind, there is hope.
A cart rolling down a hill, thereby powering a prop on the back geared that little bit higher, maybe...?

Our energy dependency better not "depend" on gravity wheels, just yet. :-)
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 20, 2010, 03:53:44 AM
Cloxxki

  Good point Sticking, and binding parts cause allot of problems and scissor jacks are one of the worst for this.  Sticking, and binding parts are cause in most cases by twisting parts causing the sticky friction effect. The answer to this is to build with arms and leavers in pairs. This equals out allowing the action to take place. When boring holes in would you might find it good to use brass and copper bushings to reduce friction and only make it as close to the exact size without being tight so you will have an oil-able bushing bearing effect. When boring steel you may want to use some fine emery cloths in the hole to smooth it off as well. Don't round the inner edge of the hole but just enough to take of the sharp edge.

 If you have a hole to loose on the fulcrum of the device used. You may cause vibration or what some call a chatter effect. This is bad, anytime this happens.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 20, 2010, 04:01:14 AM
Or just use ceramic.  Partially stabilized zirconium oxide to be specific.  Ceramic on ceramic has the lowest coefficient of friction measured to date.  ***EDIT***  Also, no need to lubricate as this actually increases the friction.

Bill
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 20, 2010, 07:17:35 PM
Or just use ceramic.  Partially stabilized zirconium oxide to be specific.  Ceramic on ceramic has the lowest coefficient of friction measured to date.  ***EDIT***  Also, no need to lubricate as this actually increases the friction.

Bill

Greetings Bill

 That is a very good suggestion. Thanks! I have a couple of them in my surplus but when I did some pricing some of them where high cost. Do you know where we could find them at a reasonable cost?

 I guess that the removing of the grease is the cheep way. I get most of my bearings for less than 3 dollars each. and if I find some rollerskates at a yard sell. I can get several for a lot less. But when it comes to build the next wheel after the test wheel. It will be well worth the cost of the ceramic bearings.

Thanks again Bill

Alan

edited rollerskating. Well I kind of miss rollerskating  :'(
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 22, 2010, 02:17:46 AM
@ All

 Here are some pictures of my table top wheel stand. It IMO would be a good stand for those who don't have much room but would like to build. I use angle iron and welded tabs for bolt to tighten the bearings in. They sit well in any V shape without having to know the proper size. Then I welded it to 1 inch square tubing. I use mine for quick ideas and test. The closeup shows the spacing or two bearings to keep a stable hold on you axle. In my case it is 1/4 all thread but I think I am going to up it to 3/8 size. This way I can use 18 inch disk.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 22, 2010, 02:24:59 AM
Greetings Bill

 That is a very good suggestion. Thanks! I have a couple of them in my surplus but when I did some pricing some of them where high cost. Do you know where we could find them at a reasonable cost?

 I guess that the removing of the grease is the cheep way. I get most of my bearings for less than 3 dollars each. and if I find some rollerskates at a yard sell. I can get several for a lot less. But when it comes to build the next wheel after the test wheel. It will be well worth the cost of the ceramic bearings.

Thanks again Bill

Alan

edited rollerskating. Well I kind of miss rollerskating  :'(

Actually, I don't.  We used to make our own.  Of course, I owned a precision ceramic machining corporation all equipt with diamond tooling.  We used to make them for NASA and General Motors and others as well.  I have no idea who is making them now and for how much.

Bill
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 25, 2010, 03:30:49 AM
Actually, I don't.  We used to make our own.  Of course, I owned a precision ceramic machining corporation all equipt with diamond tooling.  We used to make them for NASA and General Motors and others as well.  I have no idea who is making them now and for how much.

Bill

Greetings Bill

 I remember the phone call. We talk quite a bit about it. I had almost forgotten.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: infringer on June 25, 2010, 04:04:10 AM
yes good thread indeed gravity wheels are very time consuming as you say all those builds and you have prospects I just hope folks know what they are getting into they can be very disappointing to build it will take many failures to find a runner that I am sure of as proven through history...

My question is this why not make a design that is capable of brute force somehow... The ability to keep using the same wheel over and over with different applications of gravity power would be great!
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on June 25, 2010, 03:52:48 PM
Vidar

 The reason for removal of the A in the bearings is for the test wheels. This way if you finds continuous action you will be able to build up from there. In a small test wheel this will allow a more positive understanding of what you are doing, and not a misunderstanding thinking you may not have a non runner due to stiff bearings. When you build the larger wheels this is not as much a problem.  ;)

Alan

PS I like wheels that can overcome allot of friction and have plenty of energy over that as well.  ;D
Ok I see :)
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on June 25, 2010, 03:55:48 PM
yes good thread indeed gravity wheels are very time consuming as you say all those builds and you have prospects I just hope folks know what they are getting into they can be very disappointing to build it will take many failures to find a runner that I am sure of as proven through history...

My question is this why not make a design that is capable of brute force somehow... The ability to keep using the same wheel over and over with different applications of gravity power would be great!
Agreed. It seams it takes forever.... I think however we need to get some help from Mother Nature. Harness the energy potential that is already there, and combine it with a gravity wheel. Because it is hard to understand that a wheel can power itself with no help.

Vidar
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 27, 2010, 04:01:41 AM
Hi Vidar

 Gravity is all we need. But you have to figure out the reactions of the device that the Gravity activates is the trick.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on June 27, 2010, 01:13:31 PM
The problem is that the gravity works equally on both sides of a wheel. Without help to distribute energy, the wheel cannot run.
I see however the need to understand the mechanism. The closer you are to understand the mechanisms, the farther from a self sustaining wheel you understand you are. 
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 27, 2010, 02:26:57 PM
The problem is that the gravity works equally on both sides of a wheel. Without help to distribute energy, the wheel cannot run.
I see however the need to understand the mechanism. The closer you are to understand the mechanisms, the farther from a self sustaining wheel you understand you are.

Hi Vidar

Lets look at this. Which is gravity pulling harder on? An object going with gravity or an object going away? In a wheel you have both effects despite the constant pull of gravity. It is easier to fall, than to jump up. Now you do have a difference to consider, and you have to understand how to capitalize on this information.  ;)

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on June 27, 2010, 04:42:21 PM
Hi Vidar

Lets look at this. Which is gravity pulling harder on? An object going with gravity or an object going away? In a wheel you have both effects despite the constant pull of gravity. It is easier to fall, than to jump up. Now you do have a difference to consider, and you have to understand how to capitalize on this information.  ;)

Alan
Well, it is easier to fall if you already have been carried upwards by some one else. If you had to climb up to that altitude yourself, the fall will just compensate for the energy you used to climb up. And where did you get that free fall in the first place?

OK. Imagine this. One single weight is taking one round on a wheel. Its path is circular, or maybe not - doesn't matter. Its velocity is constant, or maybe not - doesn't matter. The weights is changing altitude of 1 meter from the very bottom to the very top.
What part of gravity is letting this weight to take one more round, and keep that forever?
What if we add more weights so the lonely weight can have some company. Will then the weights have a better reason to keep spinning around in that loop?
It is all about kinetic and potential energy. About where the weight is present in altitude at any time. About the velocity of the weights at any time. No matter which path these weights are taking, all that matters is the altitude position and the velocity of the weights at all times. The sum of 1 meter up minus 1 meter down is still zero - no matter how the path is on its way up vs the path on its way down.

There is in other words no excess free fall of the weights which is letting the gravity wheel keep spinning, because the physical limitations of the wheel isn't allowing them to do so.

It isn't more complicated than that :)

That is the reason why I took the gravity wheel a step forward. Using environmental temperatures to control the weights in order to have a true unbalanced gravity wheel. This is not new, however, but it should work.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 27, 2010, 07:00:14 PM
Vidar

 You mean like this test I posted on youtube 2 years ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhskB-0SjKI

Now for placement weights you are correct. But use the energy of the stronger resistance of the ascending weight to make the shift to improve the descending sides effectiveness to keep possible acceleration. As seen in the video the weight falls faster than it lifts but the extra kinetic weights allow for a more solid flywheel effect that helps lift the weight back over. Of course this was just a simple test and not a running wheel but the slowdown was hard to detect in the first minute of running. There are ways to do things if we keep an open mind to try. The quest is to find those ways.  ;)

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on June 30, 2010, 06:17:21 PM
Greetings All

 Some more good information, and a good tool to use, is on one of my older strings from 1 1/2 years ago. This help with understanding of how weight placement reacts on a wheel.

AB Hammer's gravity and keel grid

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6474.0

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 02, 2010, 12:23:25 AM
Vidar

 You mean like this test I posted on youtube 2 years ago?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhskB-0SjKI

Now for placement weights you are correct. But use the energy of the stronger resistance of the ascending weight to make the shift to improve the descending sides effectiveness to keep possible acceleration. As seen in the video the weight falls faster than it lifts but the extra kinetic weights allow for a more solid flywheel effect that helps lift the weight back over. Of course this was just a simple test and not a running wheel but the slowdown was hard to detect in the first minute of running. There are ways to do things if we keep an open mind to try. The quest is to find those ways.  ;)

Alan
Well I feel that we understand each other, but we do not agree :) It really does not matter how weights are configured as long the difference between max and min. altitude is constant. Really - think about it. It is really not that complicated. We do not only know that gravity is conservative, but we also know that each and every attempt to make a working gravity wheel has failed. Shouldn't that be proof enough? Well, you might say "no".
We did not believe that planes could fly a few years ago, but should the planes start falling down from the sky the day we finally have a working gravity wheel? Because all the sudden the laws of physics did change! Planes don't keep flying because we don't know better :)
So be careful with that gravity wheel, because one day I might have an Airbus 380 in my living room ;D

Vidar
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 02, 2010, 04:31:22 PM
@All,

Not sure if this has been posted before, it says 2007, but this patent caught my interest.

Gravitational magnetic energy converter
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0174121.html

The idea of using a heavy mass combined with gravity to get past the sticky spot of the magnetic ramp needs investigating.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 03, 2010, 05:59:56 AM
like this?
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on July 03, 2010, 06:31:59 AM
Hi Smoky,

Ya, something like that.

I tried a hammer with a hole at the end mounted to a shaft(no magnets). It did swing pretty good(starting from the 12 o'clock position) but not very far into quadrant 4(just on the edge). It would seem that the magnetic ramp might have to extend half way into quadrant 3. It could be the weight was off or too much friction in my rough test.

Another idea is to mount the hammer to one side of a bicycle wheel for using better bearings.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Low-Q on July 03, 2010, 11:05:34 PM
Just have in mind that a SMOT ramp does not add extra energy. It is just permanent magnets that will not provide any extra energy at all - really!

Vidar
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 10, 2010, 02:27:41 AM
Because nobody has posted it. I will post it here for construction reason for ideas.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_F._M._Chalkalis_Gravity_Wheel

Yes he is using a motor to accelerate the overbalanced wheel. Will it ever make enough energy to power itself? This would be for opinions and testing.

I wanted to point out his holding device for wheel builds. I found it to be simple and effective.

I only had a short time, and I'm back to the shop.
Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: mscoffman on July 10, 2010, 03:26:29 AM

Because nobody has posted it. I will post it here for construction reason for ideas.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_F._M._Chalkalis_Gravity_Wheel

Yes he is using a motor to accelerate the overbalanced wheel. Will it ever make enough energy to power itself? This would be for opinions and testing.


In a perfect world the supports for something will be perfectly
stiff, but in the real world. Even the stiffest support with have
small movement excursions associated with them. This means
the universe provides a back energy wave associated with the
forward energy wave created by the gravitational imbalance
from the machine. Only if the support were perfect would there
be no energy exchange. So I think a material's physical stiffness
is a source of this energy, annealed or recharged to some
extent by random thermal motion. and fracture and breakage is
an indication that this material energy has been discharged.
You can see this is happening where his nailed wood headboard
is beginning to separate apart.

Capturing only a small amount of back energy wave in a high
efficiency device would be needed, but does one call this
overunity energy or does one call it stored energy? The
self annealing part probably truly is overunity.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: sm0ky2 on July 10, 2010, 06:38:26 AM
Because nobody has posted it. I will post it here for construction reason for ideas.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:_F._M._Chalkalis_Gravity_Wheel

Yes he is using a motor to accelerate the overbalanced wheel. Will it ever make enough energy to power itself? This would be for opinions and testing.

I wanted to point out his holding device for wheel builds. I found it to be simple and effective.

I only had a short time, and I'm back to the shop.
Alan

That video is interesting for a couple of reasons.

what i see in this video is a tiny motor hes using the turn the two upper "roller-drive" wheels.
This is a well known propulsion technology. It is used in everything from toy HotWheel car racetracks, to bumpercars, even Skybuckets, Skilifts, baseball throwing machines, Skeet Shot launchers,balistic-testing machines, the list goes on and on. Basicaly the full momentum of the high-speed rollers is transfered to the object and the process is very efficient. - the fact that he used this particular method, over a million other choices, tells me hes got something going on upstairs. not yur average backyard tinkerer.

This type of expertise ( i believe) can only come from a long time of working on the problem, as many of us know all too well.
This guy ( at least from my first impression) appears to be honestly working towards the cause. As opposed to thousands of people that hoax an effect and act stupid about how it could ever have happened.... or try to get $$ out of fools, for their phony balogny device that does nothing at all.

he has the engineering right, hes done his math...
we should give him a thread and get him over here...
anyways,.

The second thing that stands out,

is the fact that he is adding the propulsion force:

A) not only at the top of the stroke (bingo!),

but also

B)on the same plane as the gravitational vector. (double bingo!) -

which i think is useful knowledge, should a particular gravity-wheel include the addition/re-integration of rotational force.
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: teslaalset on July 10, 2010, 02:54:23 PM
i started a fresh discussion thread on the wheel of Chalkalis here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9410.new#new
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 14, 2010, 02:21:50 PM
To all

I think you will like this. Inspiration comes from many places.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCpCvID6XD8
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 21, 2010, 10:51:21 PM
Greetings All

 The middle of August I will be done with my armor rush for the big event and I will have a fair amount of time to finish what I believe to be a possible runner. But I will also be doing other builds as well. I will have allot of how to pictures done and some videos. Yes you will see this old fart. LOL I have already cleaned up my youtube sight. 2 and a half weeks then the fun begins for me. For I won't even have to think about armor, but think only wheel. ;D ;D ;D

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 29, 2010, 04:59:31 PM
12 days and counting.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 31, 2010, 08:05:31 PM
10 days left of Armor hell and over 100 degree temperature. :-\
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on August 05, 2010, 12:39:39 AM
5 days left of armor hell and the weather is suppose to finally be down now in the 90s. :)
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on August 05, 2010, 04:03:27 AM
  Is that how you build a gravity wheel ? Boy, am I glad I never listened to you  ;D

 Jim

 I am also glad you never listen to me. It is your choice. My armor work is my job and wheels are my hobby. But don't get me wrong I would love to have my wheels as my job. ;D

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 05, 2010, 04:51:17 AM
Alan:

Over 115 degrees F here today.  I felt like I was working on the surface of the sun!!!

Bill
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on August 30, 2010, 01:46:07 AM
Greetings All

 Sorry for not updating this string. I have been spending a lot of time with my Mother who has not been given long to live. I probably won't post much here due to it, until ...

I will look in from time to time.

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 03, 2011, 04:17:33 PM
Well I figure it is time to pull this string up again. Good information for builds.
 I myself have several wheels in the mix not to mention helping others. I am planning on a new stand for larger builds and will be posting it here on the forum shortly. It will be of steel construction but similar ones can be made of wood.

Have a great build
Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 03, 2011, 04:54:09 PM
Here is a video of an earlier wheel I posted on this string to show how it reacted.  Reply 14    http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9301.0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtWzl2BeyA


have a great build

Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on July 04, 2011, 03:53:57 PM
Greetings All

 Remember this is a string of help of how to build, not what to build.

 So if you have questions on how to build, and what resources you are looking for, just ask. You will always have a better chance with a solid balanced base than a floppy one. Excess and unwanted movement is a lot of extra friction and it will work against you in this quest.

Have a great build
Alan
Title: Re: How to build a gravity wheel.
Post by: AB Hammer on August 28, 2011, 06:26:02 PM
Greetings All

Here are some pictures of my quick change axles and stand for wheel work and test. I leave the mounts on each wheel I am working with, so I can change wheels at will. Now if a runner? I can show switching from stand to stand.

I use 2 flange bearings for each piece of pipe (2 cut pieces of pipe) and I use lock nuts to allow them not to be to tight. I also spray WD-40 into the bearings to loosen them up.

Note that I use angel iron for to set the mounts in.