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Author Topic: Working Air Battery  (Read 183038 times)

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #195 on: July 23, 2010, 10:56:07 PM »
@mscoffman and all interested in simple batteries:

There seems to be a grave error in the Russian text.

Look at a "voltaic pile", e.g. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Voltaic_pile.png

It is obvious that the right order of metals and tulle is the following:

copper
tulle
zinc
copper
tulle
zinc
copper
tulle
zinc

There must always be a zinc plate in touch with a copper plate (besides the first copper and the last zinc plate). The Russian text omits this "touching of metals" in a voltaic pile and proposes tulle between all plates. This would cause 0 Voltage (in case the first and the last plate is of the same metal) or just one "copper - zinc" difference in Voltage over the whole pile (which is around 0.5 Volt).

And it is hard to believe the 2 KW.

Interesting, already in 1918 there where tall tales about technical achievements. And I thought that started with overunty.com  :)

Greetings, Conrad

Not so fast conrad; (sorry, i just had to say that here)

I figured out what he means by this, I think. Suppose you alternate
metals like they say, but you then connect every similar *pair* of metal
disk together in sort of a stamped clip shape.

You would then have the battery in series as 2Q+Q+2Q.

Why? Back in 1918 or whatever even today the touching of dissimilar
metals in a circuit would be difficult to support because electrolyte
would tend to work it's way between the metals and cause corrosion.
This would be especially true of metal foils. If the cells were really thin
you could have a thousand in a single pile. ala Joesph Newman motor.
Flooding of the battery with water might not be so efficient, but it could
also result in the electrolysis reported.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #195 on: July 23, 2010, 10:56:07 PM »

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #196 on: July 24, 2010, 11:30:17 AM »
@ MarkSCoffman

Yes, I was too fast; concentrating on the "voltage addition" in a voltaic pile, while we seem to get a "current addition" in the Russian battery. Good thinking Mark!

See the attached drawing. I guess you see it like that? (The Russian inventor in 1918 probably intended such a hook up?)

I like the idea and will try it.

For higher voltage one would need several such batteries in series.


You are right, it is important to keep copper and zinc apart. I got problems with that when experimenting with similar piles or stacks. My voltaic pile had to be very "dry" to work properly. Already a little moisture between the touching dissimilar metal plates caused heavy corrosion and soon voltage loss.

I looked at the voltaic pile because one only needs to make a connection to the top and bottom plate. As I found, the connections to the plates are also a problem. Connection-wire and plate should be of the same metal in order to avoid corrosion problems.

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Poit

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #197 on: September 15, 2010, 02:27:47 PM »
How come this thread has died? :( I'm in the process of building an air battery, I will post details when its done :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #197 on: September 15, 2010, 02:27:47 PM »
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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #198 on: February 08, 2011, 06:42:57 PM »
I have been enjoying this thread very much and am just waiting for my carbon rods to arrive this week to begin my replications.

I do have one question if anyone has tried the following(Just thinking outside the box)...to date every one has wound the magnesium around the carbon core with a dielectric in between. However has anyone tried putting the carbon around a magnesium core.
I actually have ordered the parts for that as well so I can hopefully try them side by side. It is my design to use large copper pipe sections about a foot in length with a solid bottom. Then take a solid magnesium core and wrap the dielectric around that including the bottom and set it inside the copper pipe section. The magnesium core I found has a steel center to attach a lead. Once the magnesium core is inside fill the rest with powdered carbon, or coal. I have been working with both in my latest earth battery experiments. After that thanother lead can be attached to the copper pipe.
Let me know your feelings on that. I will be sharing my findings once I get this assembled.
Bizzy

Offline b_rads

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #199 on: February 10, 2011, 06:04:06 PM »
@Bizzy
I do have one question if anyone has tried the following(Just thinking outside the box)...to date every one has wound the magnesium around the carbon core with a dielectric in between. However has anyone tried putting the carbon around a magnesium core.
Interesting approach - Good Luck with your project.  This forum is about sharing information and here is a couple of ideas to consider.  Stainless Steel mesh and activated carbon is very easy to form into a shape of your design - is quite inexpensive - is as effective as electric carbon brush in my experiments.  Also - Coffee filters make a good separator material.
Brad S

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #199 on: February 10, 2011, 06:04:06 PM »
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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #200 on: February 10, 2011, 06:34:35 PM »
b_rads
I like the idea of using activated carbon as a source of carbon. That seems alot easier to work with than crushing pieces of coal or bartering a bottle of homemade wine with my cousin who works at a carbon plant in St Marys, Pa...thanks for the tIP. Do you know if it works as well as regular powdered carbon?

Offline b_rads

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #201 on: February 10, 2011, 06:45:11 PM »
@Bizzy
I have not tried powdered carbon - do not know how the two would compare for performance.  I have experimented with the activated carbon in water batteries and very happy with the results.  In the water batteries, I look for as much surface area as possible in both the cathode and anode for the galvanic effect to take place and this has served my purpose very well.  Not certain how it would perform in the air batteries.  Best of luck.
Brad S

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #201 on: February 10, 2011, 06:45:11 PM »
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Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #202 on: February 11, 2011, 06:55:51 PM »
b_rads
I picked up some activated carbon at lunch today and want to hopefully set up my experiments later this weekend. I never worked with it before so i am uncertain how to use it. It seems like it is in small pellets. Should this be ground into a fine powder like I would do when I use coal?
thanks
Bizzy

Offline b_rads

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #203 on: February 11, 2011, 07:05:38 PM »
@Bizzy
I have used stainless steel mesh formed into the shape needed and simply packed the carbon as tight as will go.  A quick rinse with tap water and connect my positive to the stainless steel mesh. 
Brad S

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #203 on: February 11, 2011, 07:05:38 PM »
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Offline b_rads

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #204 on: February 14, 2011, 04:43:38 PM »
@bizzy
For your consideration!  Sunday morning I threw together a small cell loosely based on your idea in an above post.  This is a magnesium fire starter wrapped in a coffee filter and surrounded by activated carbon with @jeanna’s Epsom Salt electrolyte.  The cell outputs 1.25v.  The cell is powering a cheap solar accent light with its AA rechargeable battery removed.  I apologize ahead of time for posting this in the air battery thread – however, I feel this does have some relevance to the design mentioned by @bizzy earlier.
Brad S

Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #205 on: February 14, 2011, 04:53:16 PM »
b_rads
That is great work. It also looks like the cell is totally eclosed...is that correct? How long has this been running continuously?
I am still waiting for all of my parts to arrive.
Thanks
Bizzy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #205 on: February 14, 2011, 04:53:16 PM »
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Offline b_rads

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #206 on: February 14, 2011, 05:08:33 PM »
You are correct, the cell is totally enclosed - this should impede any evaporation of the electrolyte.  The cell is just over 24hr old - I will keep an eye on it - no observable reduction in output yet.
Brad S

Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #207 on: February 14, 2011, 06:03:41 PM »
Brad
Great work keep us posted.
Bizzy

Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #208 on: February 17, 2011, 03:57:13 PM »
You are correct, the cell is totally enclosed - this should impede any evaporation of the electrolyte.  The cell is just over 24hr old - I will keep an eye on it - no observable reduction in output yet.
Brad S
Hi Brad
How are your tests going? I received my magnesium extrusions today so i will be able to assemble my air batteries this weekend.
Bizzy

Offline Bizzy

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #209 on: February 17, 2011, 03:59:07 PM »
@bizzy
For your consideration!  Sunday morning I threw together a small cell loosely based on your idea in an above post.  This is a magnesium fire starter wrapped in a coffee filter and surrounded by activated carbon with @jeanna’s Epsom Salt electrolyte.  The cell outputs 1.25v.  The cell is powering a cheap solar accent light with its AA rechargeable battery removed.  I apologize ahead of time for posting this in the air battery thread – however, I feel this does have some relevance to the design mentioned by @bizzy earlier.
Brad S

Hi Again
Where can I find Jeanna’s Epsom Salt electrolyte? I have no idea what thread to begin looking for it
Thanks
Bizzy

 

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