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Author Topic: Working Air Battery  (Read 183023 times)

Offline stephenafreter

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Silver-Magnesium battery
« Reply #150 on: July 06, 2010, 01:40:19 PM »
Ok, here is a trial with silver and magnesium in tap water.
Voltage with 1 red LED lit brightly is 1.59V
Of course my electrodes are much bigger than Rock's ones.
I don't have silver wire on hand yet.

THE MOST "AMAZING" is that when I replace the silver electrode with a graphite pencil or carbon tube or copper wire, the red LED doesn't have enough power to light up brightly, and the voltage readings are lower.
So it seems that potential of the material is important, but electrolytic reaction is different and could give more power output even with lesser potential difference ...
« Last Edit: July 06, 2010, 06:18:17 PM by stephenafreter »

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Silver-Magnesium battery
« Reply #150 on: July 06, 2010, 01:40:19 PM »

Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #151 on: July 06, 2010, 02:28:20 PM »
A quick update to say that it works great with silver leaf.
Having no silver wire, I glued a silver leaf on a PVC pipe and it gives the same result as with the piece of silver.
Of course it's just short term results.
I am happy because I had difficulties to conceive a thin conductive graphite layer.
This silver is interesting. Using for example copper pipe plated with silver would be cheap and long lasting. Silver plating is also available everywhere, for jewelry, and it uses just a micro size layer of silver.
I hope to try soon to wrap some magnesium ribbon around my PVC-silver pipe to make a Lasersaber kind of battery.
1 leaf only used on the picture, enough for this 32mm diam. pipe.
Cost for 1 leaf is 0.10 Euro (10 for 1 Euro, from Thailand sold on ebay).

Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #152 on: July 06, 2010, 03:43:12 PM »
Should also try silver plated copper wire.
1 layer of this wire, 1 layer of paper towel, 1 layer magnesium ribbon, 1 layer paper towel, and another layer of silver wire ... double power :)
180 meters for 5 Euros, and it shouldn't corrode, so it should last a long time ...
Might find this kind of wire in HiFi/electronic shop, like Litz wire.

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #152 on: July 06, 2010, 03:43:12 PM »
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Offline rock321

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Water/Humid Air Battery
« Reply #153 on: July 06, 2010, 05:56:49 PM »
Good job stephenafreter! I didn't spell out exactly what I was using because I wanted you all to think a little bit. There are only a few silvery metals that are good conductors. If I really wanted to "tease" you (Conrad) then I would not have shown any clear images of the metals I was using or not posted at all and left everyone in darkness. Silver plating is all that is needed on the wires and this is very inexpensive.

Rather than just duplicating experiments, I want everyone to start thinking about WHY this works better. What is actually happening with the energy? What is the energy? How is it moving? What would make it even more efficient?
"[It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter."

Be kings (and queens for the ladies).

Blessings,

Littlechristgod (aka rock321)



 

Offline stephenafreter

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Silver leaf - Magnesium ribbon battery
« Reply #154 on: July 06, 2010, 06:07:10 PM »
1 leaf of silver (25 micro thick) around 32mm PVC pipe
+ 3 feet magnesium ribbon
paper towel soaked in NaCl water (still waiting for my Epson salts)
Cost is very low, I am happy, Magnesium is the most expensive part, the fuel ...

Results are better when immerged in tap water, but magnesium might oxydise faster.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Silver leaf - Magnesium ribbon battery
« Reply #154 on: July 06, 2010, 06:07:10 PM »
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Offline stephenafreter

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Power increased !!
« Reply #155 on: July 06, 2010, 08:18:34 PM »
I wrapped the outside with some masking tape to prevent evaporation.
After around 1 hour my white LED became BLINDING BRIGHT :)
So I added 2 more LED, and all three are bright, and voltage still good :)
I am VERY happy ! It's so cheap and easy to build !

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #156 on: July 06, 2010, 08:20:04 PM »
@ stephenafreter - very nice experiments with silver - and because silver seems to last (being more noble than the other metal used) one could store some silver foil or silver coated wire for many future batteries which is really not expensive, I found some sources easily (in Europe)


My experiments showed the following:

- copper and aluminium works only a short time (two to three hours) when submerged in salt water, it works well and many days in combination with damp paper

- copper and mild steel works only a short time (two to three hours) when submerged in salt water, it works well and many days in combination with damp paper

Stephen reports that silver and magnesium works better when submerged in water. Therefore I want to try (and want to ask all silver foil or silver coated wire owners to try it too):
 
silver - aluminum  submerged in water

silver - copper  submerged in water

silver - steel  submerged in water

May be our cryptic rock321 has done that already?

To me a little container (e.g. glass jar) with salt water containing silver (which seems to last) and the other metal (aluminum, copper or steel which probably are consumed) looks more practical than damp paper which has to be replenished with water almost daily (according to my experiments). It would also not be so bad having to change the salt water on a monthly basis. It looks like tap water is enough, no additional salt needed.

I like the silver-ideas a lot (silver foil or silver coated wire), specially in case the silver is not lost.

The obvious strategy: one buys silver once (for as many batteries as one envisions) and recycles aluminum, copper and steel (probably found for free in thrown away products) in home made batteries (silver and an other less noble metal submerged in tap water in a little container)

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #156 on: July 06, 2010, 08:20:04 PM »
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Offline Mk1

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #157 on: July 06, 2010, 08:28:31 PM »
@all

I got some great results from using recycled hard drive disc , they are palladium plated aluminum , palladium is one of the noble element and give the same potential carbon has ...

 

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #158 on: July 06, 2010, 09:07:59 PM »
@Mk1 - Could you be a bit more specific about your recycled hard disk batteries (palladium coated aluminum)?

- What is the other metal you are using (may be you tried several metals)?

- Do you submerge the two metals in water (or in an other electrolyte) or do you use damp paper?

- Volts and amperage?

Remark: When submerging two different metals in tap water (or salt water) one has to do the experiment for some days (always driving a load like a LED) in order to see whether the effect becomes weak in the long run. Some metal pairs give very good results for some hours but then they stop producing electricity. One has to change the water after a few hours to get it going again (the oxygen in the water seems to be used up over time). In some cases (e.g. aluminum and steel in combination with copper) it helps to use damp paper (instead of submersion in water) because oxygen from the air can participate in the galvanic reaction.

Greetings, Conrad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #158 on: July 06, 2010, 09:07:59 PM »
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Offline Mk1

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #159 on: July 06, 2010, 09:29:42 PM »
@conrad

I don't have all the results yet , i am still waiting to find the proper materiel (the good size) , but i am talking about the platter .

Now the palladium will not tarnish , and is rated at 0v on the galvanic scale.

The remark about the metal working for some time then stopping , some times its the electrolyte that is not a good carrier , some time the metal deterioration shape and chemical content , trying all type of electrolyte mixes when you got to see that alkaline cancels acid electrolyte ...

There is solution to battery electrolyte , yes we may stumble on something great eventually , but i don't think it will be on the chemical side , but more on the easy fabrication , new shapes (coil Ns type) applications .

We are used to start from zero but with battery we start on 90 ...

I will post some pictures of my experiments ...
     

Offline Mk1

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2010, 09:25:54 PM »
@all

Guys have a look a this fire from a potato.

One potato emptied in the middle filed with salt and toothpaste , 2 wire they seem the same material , so i don't thing galvanic here , 5 minute and voila enough current to start a fire , its probably a trick but if real really worth looking into .

http://wickedhowtos.com/index.php/2009/05/28/how-to-make-fire-with-a-potato-potato-battery-cotton-ball-fire/

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #160 on: July 07, 2010, 09:25:54 PM »
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Offline jeanna

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #161 on: July 09, 2010, 08:44:23 PM »
I have been using and loving my air batteries.
I am letting them dry out and I squirt them before each use.
They will last a very long time.

But, I think I have found 2 interesting things to add to out reservoir of knowledge.

1- These seem to INCREASE in output when I put them to use.
I have noticed this since the beginning.
If I use a 1 ohm resistor to measure the mA available to my ckt, I will watch the number go up!
This is opposite to the usual.

2- I should probably put this next one on the joule thief thread, because it has to do with how the joule thief works, I think.
In the case of adding one of these air batteries which shows around 30mA available, I cannot get a jtc to turn on more than a minimum of leds.
I checked this out using my scope, on a few high power circuits I have and the highest I could get was 28v where it was over 450 with a AAA.
So, something is becoming more clear. hmm.

thank you,

jeanna

Offline stephenafreter

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #162 on: July 10, 2010, 02:50:13 PM »
@jeanna
Yes it is strange that the Joule Thief output power is very low with those batteries ...
Is there a recharging effect with normal AA batteries, or is it a problem with the meters while spikes are going back to the batteries ??

I tried silver wire with magnesium ribbon and it's great.
Silver leaf version is faster to build, but silver coated wire makes it easy to put an outside layer around the magnesium ribbon, increasing power output.

I need to go for big size battery to get decent output power, enough to light a room ... I'll work on that  :P

PS: My first silver leaf magnesium battery is still running after almost one week. Now I have the Epson salts and my batteries should last even longer, as you demonstrated in comparing with table salt.
Thanks for sharing !

Offline DrZoidberg

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #163 on: July 10, 2010, 08:15:26 PM »
I think I found a substance that can make those batteries powerfull even when dry.
"Solid gel electrodes".
These electrodes are used in medicine. They seem to be dry but they are very well conducting. I haven't found out yet what material they are made of. But that "solid gel" seems to contain a lot of moisture which it doesn't loose even when exposed to dry air for a long time. I think it's a great material for a dry air battery. The battery would perform nearly as well as a wet battery without having to add any water to it.

Offline conradelektro

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Re: Working Air Battery
« Reply #164 on: July 11, 2010, 04:59:10 PM »
@ jeanna and stephenafreter - Joule Thiefe power consumption

I measured many times the power consumption of Joule Thief circuits with a digital storage oscilloscope (measurement over a 1 Ohm resistor, 1 mV corresponds to 1 mA, see the attached picture).

One can see that a JT consumes power in a saw teeth like fashion in sync with its frequency of oscillation.

If the power consumption of a JT is measured with a digital multimeter one gets the "average power consumption".

This "average power consumption" is a useful number but one has to take into consideration that the battery must be able to supply about the double amount of the "average power consumption", not continuously but intermittently.

If for example a JT consumes on average 30 mA, the battery must have the power to supply about 60 mA. And in case the battery delivers only 30 mA maximum the JT will have a poorer output because the pulses on the coil will be truncated (in comparison with a battery that can deliver 60 mA).

Greetings, Conrad

 

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