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Author Topic: Do you see what I see???  (Read 11424 times)

Offline Raj Balkee

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Do you see what I see???
« on: June 06, 2010, 10:21:22 AM »
Please bare with me. I am new here, and I'll have to learn my way through this forum.

Please look at the attached drawing which is self-explanatory and tell me if you see what I see.

The drawing represent two wheels: one small wheel, with diametrically magnetised permanent magnets, lining  its outer rim, with their north (N) and south (S) poles fixed as shown, freely rotable on its fixed axle.  One larger cylindrical wheel, with diametrically magnetised permanent magnets lining between its inner and outer rims.
The small wheel rotates on its fixed axle.
The larger wheel rests  and rotates on the outer rim of the small wheel.
NOW!
I see the larger wheel being pulled to the smaller wheel on the counter-clockwise side by the attraction of opposite poles of magnets and being pushed away from the smaller wheel on the clockwise side by the repulsing of like poles, forcing smaller wheel to be in a continuous unbalanced state and rotate continuously.
Do you see what I see???

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Do you see what I see???
« on: June 06, 2010, 10:21:22 AM »

Offline gauschor

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2010, 11:17:42 AM »
Even if it seems constantly in an unbalanced state, it will eventually come to rest in a state, where least energy is needed. And there is plenty of possibilities in this setup. I'm sorry, but this device will not work in my opinion :(

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2010, 12:04:10 PM »

Interesting design. I think only experiments can prove or disprove its usefulness, at the moment I cannot 'see' any negative thoughts in my mind against its magnetic operation.  Will consider more pondering on it later.

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2010, 12:04:10 PM »
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Offline FatBird

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2010, 11:30:37 PM »
Very Interesting Design.

Yeah, I too think that the best way to prove or disprove whether it works is to build one & try it out.

.

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 03:05:39 AM »
I agree it could looks like it may run if it can be started.  I do see possible stiction points but I think it's really hard to say without giving it a try.  Looks fairly easy to build if you have the diamagnetic magnets. 

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2010, 03:05:39 AM »
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Offline gauschor

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2010, 11:36:14 AM »
it's really hard to say without giving it a try

No, it's not hard to say that it won't work, if you've messed around with magnets before. If you don't believe I'd suggest that you buy 50 magnets for a total of 20$ and try out multiple arrangements yourself...

Offline Raj Balkee

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 11:36:16 AM »
I thank you all gentlemen for your replies.
I would like many more forum members to reply and let me know what they see in my concept ( A very simple concept).
 Tell me honestly what you see, good or bad. It won't hurt me.

I see the the wheels in the drawing in a BALANCED  state (as if held at rest at this position). But looking closely at its setup, you will feel that the small wheel must get unbalanced immediately (when released from held rest position) because of the magnets attracting and repelling actions.
The small wheel will then rotate clockwise, because of the additional torque provided by the larger wheel resting and moving further from the axle of the smaller wheel on that clockwise side.

I see the actions of the magnets to continue. I see the rotations of the two wheels to continue.

I DO NOT see anything in this set up to act, to counter this rotation once started. Not even FRICTION.

Of course, the efficiency of my device will depend on (1) the strength and weight of the magnets,(2) the size of the wheels and (3) the weight of the larger wheel which will provide the required torque.
N.B: Further efficiency can be attained with magnets lined up throughout the circumference of both wheels.
Now!
How many of you, good members of this esteemed forum, see what I see?
I thank you in advance for your replies.
Please remember, your replies can be positive or negative views. I will appreciate them.  I just want to hear from you.

Raj Balkee
Mauritius

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2010, 11:36:16 AM »
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Offline Raj Balkee

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2010, 12:04:47 PM »
Just a quick passing thought!!!

If the wheels won't run, they must keel to a stop position.
Where will be that 'Keel' position?
Certainly not the positions of the wheels as in the drawing. Here the magnets are ready to act, pull and push to start a motion of the wheels.

Where will be the rest position of the wheels if they wont't run???
Do you see what I see???

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2010, 01:07:04 PM »
Hi Ray,

I think your setup can work as you describe. I 'went through' on it in my mind and have not found a state where the rotation could stop due to sticky points.  Of course there are sticky points.
The biggest sticky point is whenever two magnets on the different wheels are just passing in front of each other as you can see in the drawing at the 12 o'clock position on the big wheel but this sticky point is always defeated by two attract and two repel effects of the neighbouring magnets.
The other sticky points are much much smaller than the big one just mentioned and they depend mainly on the diameter of the small wheel with respect to the big wheel. The small sticky points (that are not at the 12 o'clock position) are also compensated for by the attract and repel forces, there is very little residual motion-to-counterforce remains that is also overcome by the main two attract and repel forces mentioned earlier.

Do you have practical result with this setup or you just figured it out without any tests?  Maybe you have some hint on the ratio of the outside diameters of the two wheels?  They are important of course. Suppose the big wheel has a 30cm OD, then the small wheel should have slightly less than 15cm OD or around the half OD of the big wheel?

rgds,  Gyula

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2010, 01:07:04 PM »
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Offline Raj Balkee

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2010, 02:01:09 PM »
Hello Gyula,
I would have already built a working device, but for lack of readily available materials, like special magnets in my tiny Island Country, I have not been able to do so.
 I have carried out partial initial test to check basic concept of my device, using magnets from car windscreen wiper motor, and my tests were conclusive.
I have no doubt that with proper cylindrical diametrically magnitised magnets, my device will work perfectly. At least this is what I see right now!.
 I have no knowledge of electromagnetism. Thus I do not have any clue to any rpm that the wheels
will have and least of all, I do not have a clue to any power output my device may or may not give.
All I see is that my device will run.
That's all I want. Just show a running device for now.
I know many of you gentlemen have far more facilities in your countries to built devices like mine. Needless to say, how much I would appreciate if any of you, good Samaritan, will try to build and test my device and let us all know the outcome of his endeavour. I know it will cost a few dollars, as one of our friends has mentioned earlier, but I believe it will be money well spent, as it will show us something we don't know yet.
Once again, I thank you, and all other friends on this forum, for taking their time and effort to contribute on my topic in here.
Raj

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 02:57:14 PM »
Hi Raj,

Thanks for your answers.  I wonder what is your take on the diameter ratio of the wheels?  I 'feel' the small wheel may have a maximum OD of half of that of the big wheel.   
rgds,  Gyula

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 02:57:14 PM »
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Offline Raj Balkee

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2010, 03:30:21 PM »
Hello again Gyula,
Initially, the diameter of the smaller wheel (rotable on its fixed axle) is half the diameter of the inside rim of the larger wheel, so as to make the magnet at the 10.30 o'clock position on the larger wheel to come right on top of the magnet at the 9 o'clock position on the smaller wheel when both magnets pass the 12 o'clock position on the smaller wheel.
But things can be made easier by lining magnets throughout the whole of circumference of both wheels. Then the difference in diameters of the wheel will only affect the torque that the larger will provide to the smaller wheel, which will then affect the rpm and power output of the device.
I hope you can see what I can see.
Regards.
Raj

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2010, 03:59:24 PM »
Ok,  and one more thing: why did you give title for your drawing: Gravity Engine?  Why not: Permanent Magnet Motor?

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2010, 05:27:00 PM »
This design is on a horizontal plane on a vertical axis. The magnets are at 90 degrees to each other.
The Hamel design overcame the sticky point by adding in a horizontal axis that rotates on a center point which enabled a precessional wobble. The offset in your design was accomplished in the Hamel design by the inner ring entering and leaving the horizontal plane in a sine wave fashion during rotation.

One of the David Hamel devices shot up into the skies never to be seen again.
The next step after turning a mechanical output is to turn the fields and not bog the operation with frictional losses.
This is where the real promise is. Your device is well named.
The virtual side of the device should spin at an astronimical rate compared to a metal axle.

Offline Raj Balkee

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Re: Do you see what I see???
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2010, 05:38:34 PM »
Well Gyula,
I am working on Perpetual Motion Machine and Gravity wheel concepts for many many years, in fact since my university days in UK. I must have made hundreds of drawings of different concepts on and off during these years.
In the end, I came to think that gravity alone won't make a wheel turn continuously, because I came to think that gravity force acts only vertically to the earth surface and only one direction, i.e downward.
I came to think that in order to make a wheel turn on a horizontal axle, we need at least forces acting in two directions: vertically and horizontally.
I tried to incorporate other type of forces with gravity in my new designs, like springs, elastiic bands, and magnets.
About six months ago, I came up with a new design that I thought looks good. I posted it on Besslerwheel .com in last december for the first time. It got mixed views.
Just to make this design, which I have named Universal Gravity Wheel, better I added the concept of using magnet in the design to add horizontal force to the wheel in the design.
I was overwhelmed by my partial test of my UGW device. It looked very good to me.
I posted on Besslerwheel.com.
You can view it there if you want to.
I was politely told that since my device uses magnets, I was on the wrong forum and that I should try OverUnity.com. Since then,I have improved on my UGW and now, I have named it Automatic Gravity Engine.
But what's in a name? The device that counts. Doesn't it?
Raj

 

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