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Author Topic: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil  (Read 15398 times)

Offline Poit

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Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« on: June 04, 2010, 02:30:02 AM »
Hi Everyone,           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxcEaUd0ZaA
This is my first thread. I came across this video on youtube that effectively has made a permanent magnet motor with similar principals of a traditional electric motor. Attracts, repels, attracts, repels etc etc..... I am very keen in duplicating the magnetic field blocking coil. Looks like a simple enough circuit (I am not all that smart with electronics, but know enough (I guess) to replicate this).. Even has circuit diagrams and pretty pictures :)

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Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« on: June 04, 2010, 02:30:02 AM »

Offline exnihiloest

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2010, 11:13:24 AM »
Hi Everyone,           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxcEaUd0ZaA
This is my first thread. I came across this video on youtube that effectively has made a permanent magnet motor with similar principals of a traditional electric motor. Attracts, repels, attracts, repels etc etc..... I am very keen in duplicating the magnetic field blocking coil. Looks like a simple enough circuit (I am not all that smart with electronics, but know enough (I guess) to replicate this).. Even has circuit diagrams and pretty pictures :)

Interesting matter. There is something intriguing at time 3'00. A rotor magnet is attracted towards the toroidal coil. This is due either to the stationary magnet attracting it from the other side of the coil or to the ferromagnetic core of the coil.
But when the coil is powered, the rotor magnet is repelled. It is not clear why because the field from the coil is perpendicular to the magnet's field so it should play no role and even if it would play a role, there is no reason the rotor rotates clockwise or counterclockwise.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2010, 06:40:34 PM »
Interesting matter. There is something intriguing at time 3'00. A rotor magnet is attracted towards the toroidal coil. This is due either to the stationary magnet attracting it from the other side of the coil or to the ferromagnetic core of the coil.
But when the coil is powered, the rotor magnet is repelled. It is not clear why because the field from the coil is perpendicular to the magnet's field so it should play no role and even if it would play a role, there is no reason the rotor rotates clockwise or counterclockwise.

When you place a magnet (either permanent or electromagnet) to the side of the ring core and the coil on the ring is excited, the flux can leak out at the place where the side magnet is positioned, the homogen inside toroidal field in the ring is disturbed from outside and the flux leaves the ring I think.

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2010, 06:40:34 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2010, 11:24:41 PM »
It looks like he just wound magnet wire over a common iron washer, untill he filled the hole up.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2010, 01:17:21 AM »
Interesting matter. There is something intriguing at time 3'00. A rotor magnet is attracted towards the toroidal coil. This is due either to the stationary magnet attracting it from the other side of the coil or to the ferromagnetic core of the coil.
But when the coil is powered, the rotor magnet is repelled. It is not clear why because the field from the coil is perpendicular to the magnet's field so it should play no role and even if it would play a role, there is no reason the rotor rotates clockwise or counterclockwise.

When you place a magnet (either permanent or electromagnet) to the side of the ring core and the coil on the ring is excited, the flux can leak out at the place where the side magnet is positioned, the homogen inside toroidal field in the ring is disturbed from outside and the flux leaves the ring I think.

Here's a third possibility.  The rotor and stator magnet (the stator magnet being on the other side of the coil) are in repulsion mode and this can be seen in the video at 2:52 written out in a caption.  The rotor magnet is attracted to the core, since the attraction to the core is greater than the repulsion from the stator magnet.  When the coil is energized at TDC, then the core loses it's net attractiveness and the rotor magnet is repelled by the stator magnet.

Around 3:02 of the video, you can see the rotor oscillating back and forth when the coil stays energized due to the rotor magnets on each side of TDC repelling against the stator magnet in opposite directions.  When he de-energizes the coil, then the approaching magnet is attracted to the core again.

GB

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2010, 01:17:21 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2010, 10:26:34 AM »
Here's a third possibility.  The rotor and stator magnet (the stator magnet being on the other side of the coil) are in repulsion mode and this can be seen in the video at 2:52 written out in a caption.  The rotor magnet is attracted to the core, since the attraction to the core is greater than the repulsion from the stator magnet.  When the coil is energized at TDC, then the core loses it's net attractiveness and the rotor magnet is repelled by the stator magnet.

Around 3:02 of the video, you can see the rotor oscillating back and forth when the coil stays energized due to the rotor magnets on each side of TDC repelling against the stator magnet in opposite directions.  When he de-energizes the coil, then the approaching magnet is attracted to the core again.

GB

Hi GB,

Yes, I think your suggested third possibility is in fact a reality shown in the video.  And the ring core when it is excited become quasi 'transparent' to the flux so that the two permanent magnets can interact as their polarities dictate.  And the ring's 'transparancy' to flux comes from becoming at least partly saturated, the ring core's permeability gets reduced by the excitation.

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2010, 05:13:36 PM »
Not only does the core grow saturated, but it begins to magnatize, after which point the motor can no longer run.

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2010, 05:13:36 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2010, 06:25:19 PM »
Not only does the core grow saturated, but it begins to magnatize, after which point the motor can no longer run.

Well this can happen if the ring core has a material with high value remanent magnetic properties,  you wish to avoid using that.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2010, 01:45:37 AM »
Does anyone know just exactly what kind of washer material he's useing and if theres somthing else that might work better? Here's an idea for an M.E.G. configuration: Magnets sandwiched between two wraped toroidal washers, with spiral pancake output coils on each end of the stack. Might make a very efficient solid state. This intrepid inventer achieved overunity doing somthing like that over here on youtube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxL9W6gVG4

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2010, 01:45:37 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2010, 08:29:07 PM »
We can see how Gotuluc gets more out than in with an LLC resonant circuit, in his Youtube video from the message above. Two coils on the toroid core and a balanced capacitor, with magnets attached. Two toroid motor coil type inductors balanced with the right capacitor with magnets in between gives us the same LLC magnet oscillated circuit. The only problem is, the frequency has to be adjusted as the capacitance rises to maintain resonance in the tank circuit, which is a different output source from the spiral pancake coils suggested for the outside. Gotuluc has a detached output coil generating current along with the LLC output feedback too.  A few cheap correct alloy metal washers might work nearly as well as a costly custom core. Gotiluc's LLC OU feedback circuit can be coupled with the Toroid spinning roter as well. Gotuluc's circuit might also spin a magneticly levitated frisbee type ring with magnatized sections, inside his two coil toroid, using this toroidal coil magnet pulse principle.

Offline Poit

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 11:36:15 PM »
I love all the replies (if only i could understand them haha). You guys are very smart, I am doing my best to keep up.

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2010, 11:36:15 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2010, 12:06:06 AM »
Does anyone know just exactly what kind of washer material he's useing and if theres somthing else that might work better? Here's an idea for an M.E.G. configuration: Magnets sandwiched between two wraped toroidal washers, with spiral pancake output coils on each end of the stack. Might make a very efficient solid state. This intrepid inventer achieved overunity doing somthing like that over here on youtube.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxL9W6gVG4

Hi,

I think toroidal cores would be good, see this link for cheap ones:
http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerToro/FerToro-3.html 

Strip wound cores like these: (ICH) 52425-1A  (ICH) 52356-1/2A
or ferrite toroids like (ICH) H5C2T31X8X1 and maybe this bigger one (ICH) MM-T225-6 here http://www.surplussales.com/Inductors/FerToro/FerToro-1.html

All these I listed will give very little eddy current loss when you pulse the coil wound on them, also they have very low remanence magnetic properties.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2010, 08:06:14 PM »
@Poit- Would you be kind enough to tell us what the core material is in the video?

Imagine two toroidal coils. Now after one's pulsed, it can pass it's power to the second one through a capacitor, instead of running the power into the ground for a net loss, as the video model does.

@Gula, thank you very much for your worthwhile links!



Offline NTesla

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Re: Magnet Motor Toroidal Coil
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2010, 08:03:12 AM »
I was considering making an Orbo like device similar to the video - the trick is ensuring the stator and rotor magnets are in neutral attraction (or repulsion in this case) when the toroid 'gate' is not turned on. This is achieved by careful magnet strength selection in combination with the toroid properties.

Also I think a good idea is to use arc magnets instead of flat surfaced magnets so that when the stator and rotor magnets are opposite each other the opposing forces are in the direction of rotation instead of pushing on the rotor bearings.

 ;D

 

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