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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 07:43:19 PM

Title: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 07:43:19 PM
I'm new here at this forum and have been following many of the more recent conversations.

*** It seems to me, that creating any sort of self-runner mechanism would be nothing
short of miraculous.
*** Simplicity of design is always best.

Did come across something interesting going back to 1879...
((Harper's New Monthly Magazine - March 1879 pages 601-605))

Gary Wesley's Magnet Motor... ((easy to Google to find relevent articles, descriptions, etc.)

*** Gary has a very simply design based upon something he discovered "about the Neutral-
line in a magnetic field interacting with a piece of iron))

*** Perhaps, Gary's design might be the simplest and most easy to replicate as a proof-
of concept -- that IT IS possibly to have some sort of long-lived perpetual
mechanism using magnets.

ANY SORT of even the most simplest "it truely works" prototype, would then allow
one to have HOPE that greater things are possible.

-----------------------
A few months ago, my own interests in this subject matter have been awakened, and since
I have studied hither and yon via the net --- as to what "seems to exist" ...
Much talk -- but after centuries -- of God knows how many "trial & error" attempts by God knows
how many people... "Where is anything to show for it????"

*** Perendev ????  Perhaps, but probably the magnets wear out.
*** Snyder --- no real proof of anything.
*** and the many others??? Where's the real, tanglible, reproducible proof of concepts???

----------------
Maybe, just perhaps, the simple "Gary tidder todder" concept could be replicated - as proof
the "it is possible....

I mention this here in these forums, as it seems to me that there are many individuals that have
enthusiastic, youthful energy to do "trial & error" work...

Would anyone be up to the challenge of replicating and proofing that there is something
that everyone can easily replicate as proof of concept that a magnet motor can be made
to work, and that once this is established, larger ideas could evolve from that.

I have also been following the more recent thread on Torbay's design...
Maybe Torbay's design is actually something along the lines of what "Wesley Gary"
discovered...

Perhaps...

Hi to everyone...
PS: I'm a Swiss-trained Watchmaker, mid-age, and with a good share of "senses"
around mechanical issues... Watchmakers in general tend to be interested in mechanical
things, Pendulum, etc...
The perpetual pendulum is sort of a "holy grail" to any watchmaker...



Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 07:54:20 PM
Quote
*** Snyder --- no real proof of anything.

What's your reasoning in saying that?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:02:09 PM
Quote
*** Snyder --- no real proof of anything.

What's your reasoning in saying that?

I see as of yet, no verifiable proof of anything yet, let alone detailed plans that
allow replication and verification.

Till then, it's on the back-burner - along the lines of "wait & see"...
I think a reasonable amount of skepticism is healthy until verifiable proof is at hand.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:08:39 PM
Quote
I see as of yet, no verifiable proof of anything yet, let alone detailed plans that
allow replication and verification.

How come, don't you see the rotor tuning all by itself without being powered by anything? Or you think Snyder is doing something secretly that we don't see to turn the motor? I assure you he isn't.

As for replication and verification -- can you replicate in the workshop in your basement a computer from scratch, even if you have the detailed plans? Perhaps (almost surely), not. And yet, computers are real.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:09:35 PM
Quote
*** Snyder --- no real proof of anything.

What's your reasoning in saying that?

Question: ?Could you prove to me beyond a resonable doubt // any sort of simple
magnet based self-runner that exists and has been verified to function for a very
long time before wearing-out???
Given the centuries of many attempting to do this???

Gary Wesley's motor "maybe" might be a simple proof of a self-runner being
possible... big big maybe...

Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:13:32 PM
Quote
Question:  Could you prove to me beyond a resonable doubt // any sort of simple
magnet based self-runner that exists and has been verified to function for a very
long time before wearing-out???
Given the centuries of many attempting to do this???

Gary Wesley's motor "maybe" might be a simple proof of a self-runner being
possible... big big maybe...

No need to do that. Conventional science absolutely denies that the rotor of a motor such as the one Wesley Snyder built is capable of making even one full turn. Wesley Snyder's motor, as you can see, makes many more full turns than one full turn at that all by itself, without input energy.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:14:34 PM
Quote
I see as of yet, no verifiable proof of anything yet, let alone detailed plans that
allow replication and verification.

How come, don't you see the rotor tuning all by itself without being powered by anything? Or you think Snyder is doing something secretly that we don't see to turn the motor? I assure you he isn't.

As for replication and verification -- can you replicate in the workshop in your basement a computer from scratch, even if you have the detailed plans? Perhaps (almost surely), not. And yet, computers are real.

I would welcome verifiable, outside analysis of Snyders work... Till then, nothing has been
proven.

I think there is a pretty clear pattern (over the many decades) of attempts, fraud, etc etc.
Snyder's work proves nothing in my mind "other than // let's wait and see".

Even following the latest thread on Snyder // nothing further has been forth coming.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:19:32 PM
Since you say there have been previous similar attempts, can you show another, earlier, video of such motor working?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:19:50 PM
Quote
Question:? Could you prove to me beyond a resonable doubt // any sort of simple
magnet based self-runner that exists and has been verified to function for a very
long time before wearing-out???
Given the centuries of many attempting to do this???

Gary Wesley's motor "maybe" might be a simple proof of a self-runner being
possible... big big maybe...

No need to do that. Conventional science absolutely denies that the rotor of a motor such as the one Wesley Snyder built is capable of making even one full turn. Wesley Snyder's motor, as you can see, makes many more full turns than one full turn at that all by itself, without input energy.

Science hasn't yet uncovered all there's yet to be discovered.
I'm not into any sort of arguing here... I respect your opinion, and hopefully you can also respect
my point of view.

What this thread is really about is "searching for a "simple self-runner"...
that is proven to work, and can be replicated.

I would welcome your thoughts on this.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:22:08 PM
No, I cannot respect unsubstabtiated claims. Again, can you show me a video (previous to that of Snyder) of a self-sustained device. If not, you should withdraw your statements about Snyder.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:22:23 PM
Since you say there have been previous similar attempts, can you show another, earlier, video of such motor working?

http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gary2001.htm (http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gary2001.htm)

I would be happy to see even the "simple Gary" tidder todder working.
Next would be the motor...
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:25:51 PM
No, I cannot respect unsubstabtiated claims. Again, can you show me a video (previous to that of Snyder) of a self-sustained device. If not, you should withdraw your statements about Snyder.

The videos of Snyder do not in my mind represent "substantiated proof", as such, I do not
withdraw my statements about Snyder.
It is up to Snyder to prove to the whole world "beyond a reasonable doubt" that he has something
that works.

Till then, I have nothing further to say on this subject matter as it's futile to argue about
this any further.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:26:06 PM
That's interesting but where's the video of the motor working? Whatever happened to this effort, now it's 2006?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:27:54 PM
Indeed, it is futile to argue that something isn't when it clearly is. Wesley Snyder's is the first public demonstration ever of a self-sustaining motor.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:29:41 PM
That's interesting but where's the video of the motor working? Whatever happened to this effort, now it's 2006?

I have not found any videos...
The Gary Wesley material was uncovered not all so long ago via old Patents found,
and that ancient article dating back to 1879.

It just "seemed to me" to perhaps be a long the same lines of what is going on with the Torbay
motor... perhaps working on a similar prinicple.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:31:38 PM
Well, that's pretty interesting. I wonder how is the guy doing the replication to be contacted?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:32:53 PM
Indeed, it is futile to argue that something isn't when it clearly is. Wesley Snyder's is the first public demonstration ever of a self-sustaining motor.

Tell me more about this "first public demonstration"????
I have come across the 2 videos // that are not in my mind "public demonstrations"...
 ?and what I did come across about "a public demonstration" // is not quite enough for any of us
 ? to be sent in a direction that we could explore and possibly build upon...
 
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:35:10 PM
Well, that's pretty interesting. I wonder how is the guy doing the replication to be contacted?

I don't know, but it seems from reading over the "Gary Wesley materials", it might not be
all so difficult to make some progress with a "proof of concept"...
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:35:34 PM
See, first of all I do consider a video such as the one shown by Wesley Snyder as a public demonstration. If you listen to the voice in the video you'll hear that anyone interested is invited to Snyder's lab in Texas to see it for himself. So, if you don't trust Snyder's video-demonstration you may visit him personally.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:36:42 PM
Proof of concept is all that's needed. Scientific experiments don't make sense to practically minded engineers but some of these inauspicious experiments cause revolutions.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 08:42:37 PM
Proof of concept is all that's needed. Scientific experiments don't make sense to practically minded engineers but some of these inauspicious experiments cause revolutions.

The work of Moray comes to mind when you mention this.
BUT even Moray did not clearly understand his own discoveries... (which might possibly
be atomic in nature)...
and -- was demonstrated to thousands of people, YET, many years later, there's now nothing
to show for it...

And there's a long long list of many having been lost - with nothing now to show for it.

--------------------------------------------
I AM SEEKING one simple self-runner! ((( let alone magnetic in nature )))
where is it ???

LET's FOCUS on finding one self-runner!
as that would be nothing short of a miracle in my books.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 08:46:42 PM
Quote
The work of Moray comes to mind when you mention this.
BUT even Moray did not clearly understand his own discoveries... (which might possibly
be atomic in nature)...

Understanding plays no role here. Show the rotor turning without any energy input. That?s all that?s needed.

Quote
and -- was demonstrated to thousands of people, YET, many years later, there's now nothing
to show for it...

And there's a long long list of many having been lost - with nothing now to show for it.
 

Now, that?s a tragedy if that really had been the case. Can?t these be dug out somehow?

Quote
I AM SEEKING one simple self-runner! ((( let alone magnetic in nature )))
where is it Huh

LET's FOCUS on finding one self-runner!
as that would be nothing short of a miracle in my books.

Absolutely. I subscribe with both hands to that. So far, Wesley Snyder?s is that device.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:00:28 PM
Quote
I AM SEEKING one simple self-runner! ((( let alone magnetic in nature )))
where is it Huh

LET's FOCUS on finding one self-runner!
as that would be nothing short of a miracle in my books.

Absolutely. I subscribe with both hands to that. So far, Wesley Snyder?s is that device.

A shame we don't have enough information on Snyders work to do anything with it
other than to "wait and see"...

I'm trying to cut to the chase on all this magnetic motor stuff given what I have come to
understand over the past few months researching via the net.
There are many that have "built things", even many patents are filed hither & yon...
There's a lot of exotic designs...

Being a "Swiss-trained Watchmaker", I marvel at logical simplicity of good designs!
Those Swiss Watchmakers have created some amazingly simple mechanical solutions.

I would like to see a "simple self-runner" // just as a well-designed Rolex :)

specially something like "a perpetual pendulum"...
which has just everyone stumped, and of course is much more simple that any
sort of self-running motor "going round & a round"...

Ironically, buried away in the past, perhaps in old patents, maybe someone
has yet discovered something of interest that could lead to a self-runner.

I do believe in "cracks" and loopholes in science // a newtonian crack in the
egg that would allow for something "new to be discovered"...

Often, the biggest discoveries have been by accident...
That's why I brought up the issue of Gary Wesleys work... as it might be
something quite simple for us all to work with.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 09:09:26 PM
Why don't you try replicating Torbay's motor? You, as a Swiss watchmaker certainly should have a lot of expertise in making mechanical devices. And Torbay's motor doesn't seem to be anywhere near a watch in its complexity.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:10:08 PM
Quote
I AM SEEKING one simple self-runner! ((( let alone magnetic in nature )))
where is it Huh

LET's FOCUS on finding one self-runner!
as that would be nothing short of a miracle in my books.

Absolutely. I subscribe with both hands to that. So far, Wesley Snyder?s is that device.

BTW: Snyders work seems to be in the Hammel department from what I seem to
understand about it sofar... I've chased-down the Hammel scene and it's too dubious
as of yet to justify my interests.
But I would be pretty excited if Snyders work turns-out to be a valid direction
to pursue... (don't get me wrong with that).
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:14:10 PM
Why don't you try replicating Torbay's motor? You, as a Swiss watchmaker certainly should have a lot of expertise in making mechanical devices. And Torbay's motor doesn't seem to be anywhere near a watch in its complexity.

Torbay's work has caught my interest, but there are a lot of vague issues underlying it all.
As such I'm looking for "simple solutions"...

I think right now, there are some people following that thread that will be spending quite a
bit of time persuing that issue...
We'll see how that goes...
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 09:17:04 PM
See, Hammel's device doesn't impress me one bit. I can show you a rotor turning if I am to hold the stator magnet and wave it the way Hammel does. Snyder's stator is stationary and I hear he has the motor already suspended on a stand (not holding it) which he'll soon show in a video. I'd like to replicate Snyder's device too. For me this will be enough to convince me forever in the validity of self-sustaining motors. I don't think also any other serious scientist would deny it either. Engineering efforts at a later stage, to bring it to a useful state, would be a trivial pursuit.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 09:18:24 PM
Quote
Torbay's work has caught my interest, but there are a lot of vague issues underlying it all.
As such I'm looking for "simple solutions"...

See, I'm curious what those "vague issues" might be for an expert watchmaker like you?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:25:43 PM
See, Hammel's device doesn't impress me one bit. I can show you a rotor turning if I am to hold the stator magnet and wave it the way Hammel does. Snyder's stator is stationary and I hear he has the motor already suspended on a stand (not holding it) which he'll soon show in a video. I'd like to replicate Snyder's device too. For me this will be enough to convince me forever in the validity of self-sustaining motors. I don't think also any other serious scientist would deny it either. Engineering efforts at a later stage, to bring it to a useful state, would be a trivial pursuit.

That's what I'm afraid will turn-out with Snyders work. That once it's trying to be run in a stand,
not being hand-held (and receiving kinetic energy from the person holding it).
I'll be quite interested to see that video too... and // I sure would like to see the device being totally
disassembled (all parts exposed), reassembled and working again...
Building plans would be nice too :)

Wesley's simple tidder todder might be worth playing with till then, as that would already
constitute the equivelant of a "perpetual pendulum"...
which does not yet exit :)

The best "longest running" pendulum is still going after 165 years based on the Zamboni-pile...
The ATMOS clock is a pretty amazing clock working of of ambient temperature changes,
and runs for decades at a time before needing to be serviced.

Did you come across (via Google) // the Gary Wesley designs???
that simple tidder todder // that then service as a basis for his motor design???

Apparently he spent 4 years just on making that tidder todder to work perpetually
(or should I say before it wears out).
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:29:57 PM
Quote
Torbay's work has caught my interest, but there are a lot of vague issues underlying it all.
As such I'm looking for "simple solutions"...

See, I'm curious what those "vague issues" might be for an expert watchmaker like you?

The rotor portion, and portions of the stator magnets - the arrangements between
them all.
One would almost have to work with a small portion of it to understand how might possibly
work.

and in part, I think the Torbay design, might possibly be based upon what Gary Wesley discovered,
and it seems that Wesleys tidder todder might bring some understandings to this.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:37:08 PM
Quote
Torbay's work has caught my interest, but there are a lot of vague issues underlying it all.
As such I'm looking for "simple solutions"...

See, I'm curious what those "vague issues" might be for an expert watchmaker like you?

Building anything can be extremely time-consuming, assuming one understands clearly
what one is attempting to design!!! :)

Take the SMOT device for example... that SMOT was pursued with an amazing amount
of "build-time" and attempt by many -- but no-one succeeded in building a closed-loop
smot.

I know all to well from bench-work how time-consuming building things can be :(
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 09:47:55 PM
It boggles the mind -- they are speaking as if Gary Wesley's device is around as peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Harvard and MIT people had been impressed and it had been available from the US to Japan. What is this all about?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 09:59:50 PM
It boggles the mind -- they are speaking as if Gary Wesley's device is around as peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Harvard and MIT people had been impressed and it had been available from the US to Japan. What is this all about?

Seems you're coming across some of what I've come across searching the net.
Plus is goes back to an era of 1879 -- and I do believe that that article published in
"Harper's New Monthly Magazine - March 1879 pages 601-605."
Is quite an honest article...

The entire Wesley issue is something that has perhaps been long-forgotten because of the
times back then... Plus there are some patents around too, and back then, it seems the patent
office was more strict too.

It seems, Gary was able to demonstrate this to people back then... even investors entered
the scene to the point of making it all fall apart.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 10:04:00 PM
This has to be gotten to the bottom of. What shall we do?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 10:12:15 PM
This has to be gotten to the bottom of. What shall we do?

Seems the simple "tidder todder" device being shown in various documents would
be the very easiest to attempt understanding and building"...

and if It can be proven to work... then one could develop this further to
produce motive force to drive a wheel.

There are some experimental setups that one should probably do as described
to understand the priniciples -- and then on to the perpetual version of that
tidder todder. (which is my nickname for that contraption)...
But that darn tidder-todder (if it can be made to work) // would actually be a form
of perpetual-pendulum...

----------------------------------------------
Lucky // I have 4 young sons around here // tons of LEGOS // and youthful
energy which I can perhaps encourage to attempt to build it...
I might yet myself venture to build the simple setup...
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 10:15:33 PM
This has to be gotten to the bottom of. What shall we do?

Here's is one of the many URLs on the Wesley gizmos...

http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/gary/gary1.htm)

It has some good illustrations to work with that are quite simple to follow.
It might take some tinkering to come to understand the issues, and then one
might succeed.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on April 06, 2006, 10:26:33 PM
I looked at the illustrations in the site. I may be wrong but it seems that it will be more difficult to replicate Wesley Gary's device than Torbay's motor.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 10:30:05 PM
I looked at the illustrations in the site. I may be wrong but it seems that it will be more difficult to replicate Wesley Gary's device than Torbay's motor.

Illustration #3 would be the one to conquer as a "proof it can work"...
before going any further... It seems so simple.

Illustration #1 & 2 seems to help understand it // and #3 is then a self-runner.

and that would be much easier that the unknown issues of Torbay's design.
I think there are some clearer images of #3 if you hunt via google... I came across
one that is larger.

I wouldn't attempt any of his motor designs unless #3 can be proven to work.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 06, 2006, 10:39:26 PM
I looked at the illustrations in the site. I may be wrong but it seems that it will be more difficult to replicate Wesley Gary's device than Torbay's motor.

I've attached page 603 from the 1879 article which has clearer illustrations....
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Nastrand2000 on April 07, 2006, 03:07:52 AM
one more link you might want to look at Lynxis http://www.keelynet.com/energy/gary2001.htm
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: silverdragonrs on April 07, 2006, 03:22:05 AM
i haven't yet looked at the site or titter totter device but i think a lot of people are over complicating the torbay motor. once youve gotten past the blurry images and all the argueing the torbay motor is really simple and not hard to build. the ahrdest part is finding parts ans such.

as for finding something simple i agree starting at the bottom and working your way up is always the way to go.

as to why there are few replicas of other devices it is because very few ideas work the way they are drawn out. compremises and alterations last minte changes are all put into it as it is being manufactured. these details are often forgotten and or left out of the published design. torbays motor is one of the first that i have seen several versions of the same concept broken down to be analysed. the only missfortune there is the bad photography and lack of US press coverage.

also alot of devices like this are created just by messing around in the garage by some guy who knows very little about what hes doing. and once he creates it he doesnt know how he did it and can never do it again. again torbay is the first i have seen to even replicate his own design and create several working versions of the same device.

as to the wearing down of parts - think of all the money one would save by not paying for electricity in the car or house and such..... if the motor wears out two years later and you only paid 500 dollars for it then your in good shape, just get another one.

the important thing to do is to find a simple design that works and that lasts more than an hour or so and improve upon it over and over again.

no matter what you find online or in the paper you can not believe it works untill you see it yourself. on the same note you can not discredit anything that you have not seen fail. i have read over and over people saying that i dont see it work so on. and it is up to the creater to prove it works! my butt! it is up to you to prove it does not work! as in snyders case he has taken the first step in releasing a video. he at this point has more evedence that his device works than anyone else has to the contrary.

in a feild such as this when a new device is descovered every couple of years there is no room for sceptics. if there was a device created every day then perhaps some level of caution would be in order. but to toss down an idea out of hearsay or oppinion scientific or not is wrong. attitudes like this are what hold everything back.

i don't know who said this but it is true.

"What science holds as the basics today were yesterdays impossablities. imagine what is impossable today that will be basic tommorrow?"

in other words just because you read it someplace or its a "law" or physics or what not do not rule it out because new things are discovered every day! and old laws are over written by new ones.

I believe that these motors are around. I believe that they are hard to reproduce do to lack of forplanning/research/ ond or publicity.

in the case of torbay i believe that he went public prematurely. he was not prepared and did not have a schematic drawn up yet. also alot is lost in translation of what we could find.

I think this forum has done very well in "figuring" it out with what little rescourses it had.

I beleive that to take a step back at this point would be wrong.

i think we should continue with the torbay device. and give wesley's motor a try as well.

I am sorry for the %$#%^ fest/ been a long day and i been holding that in through out the torbay thread. all those people saying it wouldn't work got under my skin!

thanks,
danny
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Lynxis on April 07, 2006, 03:28:22 AM
I think this forum has done very well in "figuring" it out with what little rescourses it had.

I beleive that to take a step back at this point would be wrong.

i think we should continue with the torbay device. and give wesley's motor a try as well.

I am sorry for the %$#%^ fest/ been a long day and i been holding that in through out the torbay thread. all those people saying it wouldn't work got under my skin!

thanks,
danny

I'm fully behind demystifying and attempting to replicate the Torbay device...
The Wesley motor (and the relevant materials written by Wesley) might also help shed some light
on the Torbay design.

I appreciate what you wrote!
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Nastrand2000 on April 07, 2006, 03:31:57 AM
@silverdragons,

I believe your design on the torby motor is correct(as we understand it). Just make sure to allow ajustment with the rotor magnet for timing changes. I never trust what other people say, scientists or otherwise, the easies way to test something is to build it yourself and learn. Good luck with the torby motor, I will be replicating it within the week as well.

Jason
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: lancaIV on April 07, 2006, 04:11:27 AM
Two extra motor-concepts:
Gramberg DE3602039
LI YNG TYAN DE4402337(also as US 5463914 publicated)

Sincerely
? ? ? ? ? ? de Lanca
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Nastrand2000 on April 07, 2006, 04:49:10 AM
@LancaIV,

would it be possible to give links to the above patents......Many thanx.

Jason
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: lancaIV on April 07, 2006, 10:14:19 PM
Visit the depatisnet.com-page
-enter "Recherche"
-"Einsteiger"(first modus)
and introduce the publication codes

Sincerely
            de Lanca

p.s.: actually the main interest should be easy replication
       (like "Rapid Prototyping")
       and the approvement of rotatoric OU-concepts,
       by combination of OU-motor concepts with conventional
       generator/alternator

       Other,"simple",concepts:,

       BE879579 Buyst              BE=Belgium Patent Office
       BE754918 Vercruyssen
       BE879579 P.J.Hendriks
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: kukulcangod on February 01, 2007, 10:35:27 PM
I see everybody talks and nobody works .

That's why we are where we are, waiting for others to do the job for you is going to take you nowhere.
 
 So I will take the lead on this one.

This is one of my many other projects, but they are my own inventions I have at least 3 forms of achieving permanent magnets to spin with no problem ,yet to be build, nonetheless the little tests prove they work .but yet to be finished and be exposed to skeptics trying to take the credit after it works?, that's a punch not willing to take from cynical lazy people......it take years to figure out this stuff.

 But some of you deserve to know more. so here we are

stop arguing and start building.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on May 19, 2007, 05:59:26 PM
I agree. I am tired of reading theories and skeptics and non experiential thoughts. There are hundreds of pages of that. I am in the process of attemting a replication of Torbays device. I will upload pictures and possibly video(if I am far enaough) tomorrow.
In the meantime here is an explanation of my build and experience so far. For those interested.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Low-Q on May 19, 2007, 06:49:32 PM
I see everybody talks and nobody works .

That's why we are where we are, waiting for others to do the job for you is going to take you nowhere.
 
 So I will take the lead on this one.

This is one of my many other projects, but they are my own inventions I have at least 3 forms of achieving permanent magnets to spin with no problem ,yet to be build, nonetheless the little tests prove they work .but yet to be finished and be exposed to skeptics trying to take the credit after it works?, that's a punch not willing to take from cynical lazy people......it take years to figure out this stuff.

 But some of you deserve to know more. so here we are

stop arguing and start building.

...and what is the video tell us? i'm not sceptic, just curious :)

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on May 20, 2007, 03:12:16 PM
Hello,
As stated here are some images of the components I am building. Any questions I am happy to answer. I only have one stator fixed in position so far. I need to be more precise with the pivot arm. I have simply pushed a nail through and they aren't always very straight. I have manually held 3 other stators in place and the rotation did cause this stator to lift and the rotor continue past the raised stator.

I won't be posting agin for the week but I hope by next weekend to have something I can video. Whether successful or not.

Hammertime - emitremmaH
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Low-Q on May 20, 2007, 09:16:53 PM
Hello,
As stated here are some images of the components I am building. Any questions I am happy to answer. I only have one stator fixed in position so far. I need to be more precise with the pivot arm. I have simply pushed a nail through and they aren't always very straight. I have manually held 3 other stators in place and the rotation did cause this stator to lift and the rotor continue past the raised stator.

I won't be posting agin for the week but I hope by next weekend to have something I can video. Whether successful or not.

Hammertime - emitremmaH
The wood you're using looks like balsa or similar. Is that right? - ok, an off topic question...but I'm building model air planes once in a while :)

The magnet #1, is that suppose to lift up or down to avoid the sticky point?
How much energy is needed to lift that magnet away compared to the rotating energy produced in one revolution of the rotor?
The magnet on the opposite side, is also hinged - it looks like that anyway. What purpose have that hinge?

What if you make two devices placed upon each other, linked and working in parallel, but 180 degrees off so you can cancel out the sticky point by adding an opposite sticky (Repel instead of attract) point elsewhere at the same timing? Then you are left with the forces which is not opposite of each other - the rotating forces....probably ( ??? )

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on May 20, 2007, 11:46:21 PM
Yes the wood I am using is Balsa Wood. Light but sturdy and non metalic.
All will eventually have hinges. Only the one on the right is completed.
In this configuration the magnets move up though moving down should also work.
One key is to balance the pivot so minimal work is required to move the magnet out of the flux path.

I am sticking with the video design first. Under the KISS principle.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on May 26, 2007, 04:33:22 PM
Here are some videos of where I am at. I had to get a drill press to put in some straight hole through the frames and blocks.

3 videos.
The first video shows how the stators are lifted as the rotor turns.
The 2nd video shows how when properly balanced the stators will lift themselves at the end of the magnetic arcs. 2 of the stators are still to out of balance.
The 3rd video shows how the magnetic force causes enough rotational energy to lift one stator and almost the second stator.

I am working on the lid which will prevent the stators from lifting to high and also apply the pressure to put the stators back into the magnetic flux field. I probably won't finish it tomorrow but in another week or 2 I should have more to update.

Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: hartiberlin on May 28, 2007, 09:43:37 PM
Well done,
please keep trying and let us know, what you will
find out, when you have added the top lid.
Many thanks for the videos.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Low-Q on May 30, 2007, 03:03:46 PM
Here are some videos of where I am at. I had to get a drill press to put in some straight hole through the frames and blocks.

3 videos.
The first video shows how the stators are lifted as the rotor turns.
The 2nd video shows how when properly balanced the stators will lift themselves at the end of the magnetic arcs. 2 of the stators are still to out of balance.
The 3rd video shows how the magnetic force causes enough rotational energy to lift one stator and almost the second stator.
I am working on the lid which will prevent the stators from lifting to high and also apply the pressure to put the stators back into the magnetic flux field. I probably won't finish it tomorrow but in another week or 2 I should have more to update.



In bold: This is quite essential to achieve to make this device to work. Nice videos! :)

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on May 30, 2007, 03:57:00 PM
I am discovering some interesting things.
1) it seems the only important magnets are the ones at the end of the arc. No additional rotational force seems to be added by increasing the number of magnets along the rotor segment.
2) From 1 it seems that the stators need to be raised for a longer period then I first assumed.
3) If looking at a clock, rotor going counter clockwise. Rotor arc lead is A tail is B.
stators at 12 and 1 o'Clock will push on B with enough force allow rotor to travel from 12 to 6 oclock and lift stator. Addition of stators at 11,10,9,8,7 do not seem to improve the rotational momentum/force and may actual hinder it.
4) Dropping stator between A and B just before B seems to be the timing I need to get right.
5) I can get the second stator to rise by ensuring stators are locked in a down position in the right configuration but can't move fast enough to lock down the next required stator to keep things going by hand.
6) The lid is proving more complicated to make out of junk than I expected.

I will post more videos here and on youtube this week showing what I mean
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 03, 2007, 03:14:08 PM
I have posted a new video on youtube.(Save you some space Stephan :) )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6fKG1aB4bs
Not very important, it just shows the construction of the stator. Mainly for documentation purposes.

It seems in my configuration that 7 stators is better than 8. As in the original Torbay video.
To check the balance of the system I use 2 stators side by side. The end of the arc at the right most stator traveling from right to left will cause the rotor to go around with enough momenetum/force to lift the stator on the right. Adjustment of the balance of the stator and placement to the rotor is adjusted until this works. Then I move one location to the left. Now using the second of the original 2 stators and the next in line. adjusting until the first stator is lifted. I perform this all the way around. I then test 4 stators at a time and ensure that 2 stators get lifted at a time. This is very time consuming and because I am using such a loose setup is a bit troublesome.
The stators occassionally become unstuck from the mounting tape and I then have to realign a start again.
3 stators will result in the same
4 stators and the rotation will lift 2 of the stators.
I have used a heptagon to create the template for the 7 sides around the rotor.
I thought I had a video of this but it ran our of memory. Before I realised it I started putting on the lid - height restrictor - which isn't transparent so now when testing it is hard to see anything.

My lid is dragging on the stator supports so I am now cutting notches in the supports to allow the lid to rotate without friction. I am also not happy with the movement of some of the stators. I still believe what I have will either offer enough hope that I will now have the templates to build completely out of transparent materials or give this device a no go.
 
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 03, 2007, 03:48:09 PM
I finally got Virtual Dub from SourceForge and can shrink the size of my videos.
The original was 30Mb this one is less than 2Mb.
Here is a much smaller sized one that shows that 2 stator can lift 1 stator.
Later this week I will post 4 stators lifting 2 also so getting more than 1 stator lifting is not a problem.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 07, 2007, 03:07:58 PM
I seem to be the only one working on this any more. Perhaps I should finishing reading Argentinian motor part 2. I don't think people concluded it to be a dud. And the only guy who said he got it to work never came back.

Anyway here is the next video showing that with 4 stators down the rotational force is sufficient to lift the first 2 of the 4 stators. It actually has enough force to slightly raise the 3rd. I am hoping that this exess energy will be enough to lower a stator instead. I have created a lid for this but my double sided tapes have all lost thier stickyness and the stator won't stay in place very long so I have to keep resetting thier positions. Very painful and time consuming. The lid I have right now also has far to much drag to be usefull. Just pieces of cardboard that drags on the stators when they are raised.

It is time for me to actually mill the base for the stators and to strength the rigidity of the stators. This will take the long weekend coming up. In the meantime. Enjoy this little show. My camera only takes decent resolution for 90 secs so I have to keep these short.

Hammertime

Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: lwh on June 07, 2007, 07:19:09 PM
Hey emitermmah.

I think your arrangement has more potential than all the other replications and experiments shown here so far. 

If you look up my own experiment and conclusions you'll see where I stand on the subject of the Torbay motor (might be better if you don't).  That said, I am genuinely hoping you'll be able to follow through with your good work so far. 

If I were to make one suggestion it would be to hold off on milling the base and strengthening the stators until you've experimented with a better top-lid.  This is just to save you unecessary work, as working out the top-hat first will sort of make or break the project.  You should be able to get something working with the base and stator arrangement as it is, or not at all.  That's just my opinion based on what I can see from this distance, don't let it stop you from doing what you've got to do.

Les.   
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 08, 2007, 03:59:49 PM
Les,
Were might I find these observations?
Checked under your login and didn't see anything yet you have 47 posts.

I have a lid but I know it is only first generation. It is 2 half circle arcs. One rests on the rotor magnets and the other rests on the top of the rotor. It has a simple balsa wood angle to push the stators down.
But I can't do that when my suports are falling off the stators
Hammertime (emitremmaH)
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: gyulasun on June 08, 2007, 04:38:27 PM
hello hammertime,

see this 2 page thread here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1579.msg14030.html#msg14030

Keep up tinkering, sooner or later you succeed.

Gyula
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 08, 2007, 05:21:47 PM
Hello,
Would someone create a flux diagram of this setup. Remove magnet 6 from the equation and reduce magnet 7's strength as it is not on the same plane.
TIA

If printed on a 297mm x 297mm this is almost exactly my setup.

Hammertime
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 08, 2007, 05:29:44 PM
Explaination of above image.
Rotor turning clockwise.
Magnets 1,2 and 3 are exerting the rotational force.
4 and 5 are insignificant on the other side of the rotor.
6 is lifted above the leading edge flux
7 is being almost lowered unto position equal to magnet 1 and does contribute slightly to the rotational energy due to the existing rotational movement.
As stated earlier it takes 2 magnets to lift one so the work of magnets 1 and 2 have raised magnet 6. 4 magnets in this configuration will lift 2 so hopefully that is less than lift 1 and lowering 1. Gravity and magnet 3 contribute to lowering magnet 7 with I hope surplus energy to keep rotational energy.
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: lwh on June 08, 2007, 10:30:34 PM
"Hello Les,
I agree 100% with your statement about the fact the horizontal rotor magnet must have some length. This is so that stators can be lowered towards the middle were the flux is the weakest. If the magnet is to long it will change pole to n-s on the ends instead of inside/outside.

Say for a 4 inch length if you place a north face magnet stator withing the first 2 inches it will repel in one direction but if placed in the last 2 inches will repel in the opposite direction. movement of the rotor does compensate for this slightly. But there is a definite balloon effect around the ends of the magnet.

One thing that I notice most people try to do is use Neo magnets. I personnally think they are to strong to work in this configuration. The magnitude of the flux field is to great. You would have to move the stators a far greater distance awat\y from the rotor to get away from the balloon effect.

I also believe that 7 magnet stators is the way to go not 8. I am uploading a new pic of my layout. Almost 1:1, off a few mm. If you look at the way 7 magnets set to the rotor you can see it is always off balance especially as long as the magnet in from of the rotor is missing. I explain where I am working from.

I think you did very well with your tooling but again I would not use metal objects which again will effect the lines of flux more than orgainc or plastic will." - Emitremmah

Replying here to your post in the other thread so as to let that thread sink back down quicker.  I don't really have anything to add though.  I can see by your explanation why you need to redo the stators before anything else.  I think you're right about the magnet types/strengths and avoiding using a lot of metal in the construction, but I don't know that from first-hand experience or anything.  If what I said in the other thread about the Torbay design hasn't put you off, then by all means continue with it.  As I mentioned, yours seems to be the most accurate replication attempt so far, as far as I can remember.  I'm hoping that will make a difference in terms of the results you get, but at the same time, I don't want to encourage or discourage you.  I just want to see what you come up with.  Sorry I can't be more helpful.

Les.   
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 09, 2007, 01:25:34 AM
Les,
Thanks for that. I may end up saying good bye to this project in the near future but for now it occupies my evenings while watching the idiot box. I may run into a point where I too conclude that the forces don't end in surplus. I am hoping to know one way or the other in a couple of weeks.

I am not fond of having to tool things but i need more consistancy in the objects. The stators are just too unstable. I am holding off on improving the pivot axels and improving the rotor and a dozen other things that are affecting my results until such time as it becomes necessary; and that will only occur when it is shown not to be, but would add more to the output.

Today I am getting some dowels and looking in my scrap timber for some old masonite.
I will use the dowels as cross supports on the stators and the masonite for the base. I will be using the image I uploaded as the template for cutting slots in the masonite to hold the stators.

Hammertime

Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 12, 2007, 02:42:09 PM
Well I have done some more.
I have routed grooves in some mdf to hold the stators. This meant that they are no longer the same height as the rotor. So I redrilled axle holes in the stators.
I have come up with the lid. It is from a ceiing lighting fixture. Heavy aluminum disk.
A video is on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N4jtCwqdI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N4jtCwqdI)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-N4jtCwqdI
This shows the action of stators without the lid pushin down.

In testing I believe that in order to lower the stators into line with the rotor will take more than is being delivered by the rotational energy. As a result I have now double the magnet face on each rotor attempting to increase the repulsive effect. I am in the  process of realigning and rebalancing the stators.

I have also started the cut on the aluminium disk.

I will need to bend this more appropriately but as a start it is not bad. The wheel it is attached to is about a 5kg spool of stitching wire for book staples. When properly balanced the single magnet faced stators can turn it fairly easily, though not as easily as without. I am thinking maybe the additional mass will help in a flywheel sort of assistance.

Hammertime
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Omnibus on June 12, 2007, 04:16:36 PM
So, this isn't yet working on it's own. You're turning it by hand, right?
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: emitremmah on June 13, 2007, 02:40:16 PM
That's correct. And funny thing is it looks just like Torbays! except backwards. Stators above rotor magnet and down when no magnet.
It demonstrates that one does not have to be in contact with the top except when being pushed down.

The more I play the less thrilled I am becoming. 2 maganets per stator does not seem to increase torque. I actually seems to have reduced torque slightly. bit difficult to measure though.

Any ideas how to create a simple torque measure?

A spiral spring in the center perhaps that tightens as the rotor turns and a dial on the end of it. Something like that.  A bit of string attached to the edge then over a lever lifting a weight?  ....
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: casstete on May 22, 2014, 08:36:14 AM
there is a device based on gary's  called the toy by www.overunitybuilder.com ... you seen that one ?

Else I also have a portuguese inventor who made a sophisticated design https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybWA9wWfUbQ

Look at this one http://linoavac.no.sapo.pt/electrorepulsion2.jpg very smart guy with excellent scientific background
Title: Re: Self-Runner // Gary Wesley's Motor // Torbay
Post by: Ghazanfar_Ali on May 22, 2014, 06:27:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omul_PPqoJg