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Author Topic: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?  (Read 31377 times)

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2010, 10:13:27 PM »
Last time I checked, autentic science and authentic religion both look for the truth. There is no contradiction between them. And the Catholic Church didn't burn anyone for subscribing to Galileo's heliocentric understanding of the universe.
religion looking for the truth? they don't even dare to vet their deity much less 'the book'...  surely you are joking? if not please start a new thread and present your evidence. please don't quote the bible as proof, it is not.

"religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." --  h.l. mencken

quarktoo

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2010, 04:48:25 AM »
Hmm, that's a little harsh, as a far as I'm aware, they have never ripped anyone off and no one is forcing anyone to give them 'donations' - in other words, no Perendev-like behaviour...

WITTS promises that "you will have access to all information once you become a member" which costs about $200 US for a short telephone consult. Not one person has ever said that they actually do that "as far as I am aware". I have heard quite the opposite from several people.

Next I have many email contacts that are similar to zerofozzilefuel's experience. You can watch his video.

One of the pillars of all consumer law is that both buyer and seller know ALL the terms and conditions.

When you offer something in exchange for something, that is NOT a donation, that is a business deal or selling a product.

WITTS on one hand says you will have access to all info. and on the other refuse to tell you what info. you have access to until you make a donation.

When someone misleads others in order to profit that is called fraud in every country on Earth.

Lastly, if they were disclosing "all information" they would be shut down since free energy devices  are illegal in the US under national security laws and those laws are global in scope. You need to talk to a qualified international patent attorney to learn more about military marching orders and section 93 part 141, the national security laws, etc.

The ultrasonic water heater was developed in China and for sale for a short time before it disappeared.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1340946.pdf

If you really think they are going to build a factory and sell these, you have a lot learn about free energy suppression. You will not only be allowed to sell them, you will not be able to disclose how they work or that you are under a gag order. The patent process and a gag order is their first line of defense. Angel investors and a fraud trial are second and if that does not work, they will kill you. Stan Meyer was slow to catch on but then he didn't realize that the zionist organized syndicate that rules the Earth is not going to give up on of their primary control levers - energy.

The Gulf oil spill is a bit harsh. Two wars for pipelines and poppies that killed over 100,000 people is a bit harsh, etc. The Gaza blockade that will Allow Israel to steal the only oil and gas around is a bit harsh, etc.

quarktoo

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2010, 04:59:03 AM »
Last time I checked, authentic science and authentic religion both look for the truth. There is no contradiction between them. And the Catholic Church didn't burn anyone for subscribing to Galileo's heliocentric understanding of the universe.

Last time I checked, there has NEVER been "authentic science or religion". Are you being serious or... I think it would be quite pointless to communicate with you.

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2010, 04:02:05 AM »
Quote
Last time I checked, there has NEVER been "authentic science or religion". Are you being serious or... I think it would be quite pointless to communicate with you.

You are right in as much as human persons' imperfections and blind spots (even apart from ill or misleading intent) keep science and religion from being authentic. However, are we not here because we are endeavouring to do authenic science in some small way, despite our own imperfections? In the same way, every religious group's members have their imperfections and blind spots, and bearers of misleading/ill intent. Despite the efforts of the latter, there will always be a spiritual backbone of good persons who seek to live a life of goodness while nurturing and celebrating it in some kind of formalized way. There have been many honourable scientists who have tried to practise both. I'm not going to dig for names, however Louis Pasteur and Dr. Rosalie Bertell are two who come to mind.

I have not met T. Thrapp, and cannot speak for his motivations either as a scientist nor as a religious person. However, I do know that when people strive to honestly seek the truth in either camp, there is often hell to pay due to opposition from those who have been misled, those who seek to mislead or maintain inordinate power/influence/monopoly or those who simply cannot open their minds and hearts to a new paradigm. So perhaps our views are not far apart at all. Hopefully, we can find some common ground, as I have no reason to doubt your sincerity in our common search for scientific knowledge which has been obfuscated at times by both the scientific and religious communities. And yet, at their best, I still believe that science and religion are compatible in as much as they openly and honestly seek after the truth for the betterment of all humankind.
Regards,
Bob

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2010, 04:25:42 AM »
just exactly how do you consider blind faith in imaginary savior entities to be "honestly seeking after the truth"?

the only thing science and religion have in common is a stubborn adherence to entrenched dogma even when evidence, or lack thereof, shows otherwise...

Offline NTesla

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2010, 09:17:06 AM »
Just visited their web site again and got this:

"404 Not Found
The requested URL / does not exist."

I wonder...are they being silenced?

 :-\

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2010, 03:45:04 PM »
Quote
just exactly how do you consider blind faith in imaginary savior entities to be "honestly seeking after the truth"?

the only thing science and religion have in common is a stubborn adherence to entrenched dogma even when evidence, or lack thereof, shows otherwise...

Blind faith can be a real tragedy. Faith has to work in concert with reason. Otherwise, it runs the risk of leading to cultish manipulation, with devastating results - look at Jonestown. Part of the reasoning that accompanies the assent of faith will come from the witness ('testamentum' in Latin - from which we get 'test' in science [to verify or refute hypotheses]). 

Authentic faith and authentic science have much in common. Inauthenticity in either is tragic.
B

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2010, 09:48:26 PM »
Blind faith can be a real tragedy. Faith has to work in concert with reason. Otherwise, it runs the risk of leading to cultish manipulation, with devastating results - look at Jonestown. Part of the reasoning that accompanies the assent of faith will come from the witness ('testamentum' in Latin - from which we get 'test' in science [to verify or refute hypotheses]). 

Authentic faith and authentic science have much in common. Inauthenticity in either is tragic.
B
reason never accompanies faith. if something is reasonable, you don't need faith. faith is a belief 'not resting on logical proof or material evidence.' your response does not address my question, you're just dancing around it. i'll repeat it.

just exactly how do you consider blind faith in imaginary savior entities to be "honestly seeking after the truth"?

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2010, 09:58:33 PM »
Just visited their web site again and got this:

"404 Not Found
The requested URL / does not exist."

I wonder...are they being silenced?

 :-\
probably being silenced by god... ;)

Offline icanbeatbob

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2010, 10:10:40 PM »
Bob,
There are so many religions out there. Which one is right? Is one better than the other. Is there only one truth? There is no logic in religion. The religion people choose are mostly based upon what they are exposed to. Others choose because of a feeling they get, even though they have not looked into other religions. Science and religion don't mix well because "the word of ones god" in written form varies and has many interpretations within each religion. People believe "the word" over truth in what they see and hear. Blind faith is dangerous at any level. Blind faith leaves one blind.

In saying that, I will be the first to say that I do not know of what is real out there. From my own experiences, it does seem that science and spirituality (not religion) seem to be coming closer together.

Have a good day.

Brad

Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 11:30:08 PM »
Quote
reason never accompanies faith. if something is reasonable, you don't need faith.
Well, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree there. Faith certainly embraces what reason alone cannot explain - but an assent of faith cannot be made without reason. In order to have faith in something or someone, doing such has to based on some form of reasoning, which serves as a foundation for a so-called 'leap of faith.' Otherwise it is what you call "blind." I don't subscribe to blind faith. I gather that you do not either, so I guess we can agree on this one point.

Quote
faith is a belief 'not resting on logical proof or material evidence.' your response does not address my question, you're just dancing around it. i'll repeat it.

just exactly how do you consider blind faith in imaginary savior entities to be "honestly seeking after the truth"
Well, I think I've answered the first part of our question. I don't subscribe to blind faith without logic or some sort of evidence or reason. If this question remains for you, it will have to be someone else who needs to answer it, as I quite literally cannot.

As far as "imaginary savior entities," I have one comment on your use of the word "imaginary."  With respect to you as a reasonable person, I wouldn't expect anyone to put their faith in someone's talk of imaginary entities, savior or otherwise.  I doubt that you would either.  If it is imaginary, then as a reasonable person, it would be ridiculous for you or I to put faith in it.

As far as the word "savior" is concerned...
     Well, when I was a child, I put my faith in my mother's being there to welcome me home after school. I had experienced her caring presence, and believed in her unconditional interest in my well-being. I put faith in my father's presence as a caring guardian based on my reasoning that emerged from having experienced his care for me.  However, my parents both had their failings...
     I put my faith in friends, teachers, bosses at work and colleagues, who although well-meaning to various degrees all failed me in some ways - my faith, through this painful realization, was badly misplaced.
     One by one all the persons and things (e.g., money, success, reputation) I had put faith in failed me. As a younger man, I finally found myself sick in bed with no one there, and no one else to put my faith in. The witness of others around me about a God interested in my welfare became my only reasonable option left. Having exhaused all unreasonable options, I entrusted myself completely to one through whom the reasoning of others I had known as God - a leap of faith based on reason. I was ready to die either way.
     In this act of faith, I found peace that was rooted in understanding, and yet went beyond it. That peace has never left me. And so my assent of faith has become a relationship with a divine Person whose being surpasses all other beings, persons or things (which also have failed to bring me peace).  I have lived now for over 20 years with this peace. It has stood the test of time, and has never disappointed me. 

We are all free creatures. If anyone can find deep true and lasting peace to sustain them, to bring perspective and meaning in any other way, they are free to do so. I have made my choice, and have never had reason to believe otherwise, as faith and reason do and must go together.
I would not recommend that anyone make an assent in faith to anything that is not based on reason. I have answered as honestly and directly as I can.


Offline Bob Smith

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 11:50:06 PM »
Quote
In saying that, I will be the first to say that I do not know of what is real out there. From my own experiences, it does seem that science and spirituality (not religion) seem to be coming closer together.

Have a good day.

Brad

Brad, I think you'll find my response to your opinions on 'blind faith' in my previous post. Seems we can all agree blind faith is not a good thing.

I agree in principle with your comment on science and spirituality. For me, spirituality is the way people live their faith. If by 'religion' you mean the empty practice of ritual with no corresponding deep conversion to love of neighbour, I am with you. Lots of very religious people out there whose example would cause me to stay far away.

For me, if religion does not foster faith, then it isn't doing its job. Religion is at the service of faith, which in addition to being at the service of finding ultimate meaning, is also at the service of truth, as is science. If religion fails in its job of fostering faith's search for truth, it should not be brought into science - it can poison science if it does not seek the truth, and yet insists on guiding and informing scientific inquiry. In fact, I would say that one can be a religious person and a person of faith, and simply do good science without ever mentioning religion or science. But some see their work as a form of witness to what they believe, and feel compelled to speak about it - that's okay; I think the world's a big enough place to allow for this. We can all test the words of others and make our reasonable decisions.  Personally, I think the witness of genuine human kindness speaks about faith more loudly than anything else, tho' sometimes words are necessary.
All the best,
Bob

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2010, 01:15:16 AM »
Well, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree there. Faith certainly embraces what reason alone cannot explain - but an assent of faith cannot be made without reason. In order to have faith in something or someone, doing such has to based on some form of reasoning, which serves as a foundation for a so-called 'leap of faith.' Otherwise it is what you call "blind." I don't subscribe to blind faith. I gather that you do not either, so I guess we can agree on this one point.
Well, I think I've answered the first part of our question. I don't subscribe to blind faith without logic or some sort of evidence or reason. If this question remains for you, it will have to be someone else who needs to answer it, as I quite literally cannot.

As far as "imaginary savior entities," I have one comment on your use of the word "imaginary."  With respect to you as a reasonable person, I wouldn't expect anyone to put their faith in someone's talk of imaginary entities, savior or otherwise.  I doubt that you would either.  If it is imaginary, then as a reasonable person, it would be ridiculous for you or I to put faith in it.

As far as the word "savior" is concerned...
     Well, when I was a child, I put my faith in my mother's being there to welcome me home after school. I had experienced her caring presence, and believed in her unconditional interest in my well-being. I put faith in my father's presence as a caring guardian based on my reasoning that emerged from having experienced his care for me.  However, my parents both had their failings...
     I put my faith in friends, teachers, bosses at work and colleagues, who although well-meaning to various degrees all failed me in some ways - my faith, through this painful realization, was badly misplaced.
     One by one all the persons and things (e.g., money, success, reputation) I had put faith in failed me. As a younger man, I finally found myself sick in bed with no one there, and no one else to put my faith in. The witness of others around me about a God interested in my welfare became my only reasonable option left. Having exhaused all unreasonable options, I entrusted myself completely to one through whom the reasoning of others I had known as God - a leap of faith based on reason. I was ready to die either way.
     In this act of faith, I found peace that was rooted in understanding, and yet went beyond it. That peace has never left me. And so my assent of faith has become a relationship with a divine Person whose being surpasses all other beings, persons or things (which also have failed to bring me peace).  I have lived now for over 20 years with this peace. It has stood the test of time, and has never disappointed me. 

We are all free creatures. If anyone can find deep true and lasting peace to sustain them, to bring perspective and meaning in any other way, they are free to do so. I have made my choice, and have never had reason to believe otherwise, as faith and reason do and must go together.
I would not recommend that anyone make an assent in faith to anything that is not based on reason. I have answered as honestly and directly as I can.
you can disagree, but you can't refute it with logic... an assent of faith cannot be made without fallacious reason. furthermore, words have definitions so we are all on the same page when using those words, making up definitions to suit your rationalizations is ridiculous. faith is a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."
faith in imaginary savior entities is the core precept of most religions, specifically christianity. they have FAITH that a savior will save them. it's called FAITH because there is not one shred of evidence that such a being exists, nor can logic 'prove' the existence of said savior... therefore imaginary is not so far off. i'm not saying a 'creator' CAN'T exist, i am saying BELIEVING in one without a shred of evidence is FAITH, blind or otherwise is irrelevant... if one applies reason, the conclusion is thus: the most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by homo sapiens is that the lord god of creation, shaper and ruler of the universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.

more to the topic, thrapp and his cohorts are about the farthest thing possible from 'christian', but then most that claim to be 'christian' do not follow christ's teachings...

quarktoo

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2010, 02:02:27 AM »
you can disagree, but you can't refute it with logic... an assent of faith cannot be made without fallacious reason. furthermore, words have definitions so we are all on the same page when using those words, making up definitions to suit your rationalizations is ridiculous. faith is a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."
faith in imaginary savior entities is the core precept of most religions, specifically christianity. they have FAITH that a savior will save them. it's called FAITH because there is not one shred of evidence that such a being exists, nor can logic 'prove' the existence of said savior... therefore imaginary is not so far off. i'm not saying a 'creator' CAN'T exist, i am saying BELIEVING in one without a shred of evidence is FAITH, blind or otherwise is irrelevant... if one applies reason, the conclusion is thus: the most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by homo sapiens is that the lord god of creation, shaper and ruler of the universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.

more to the topic, thrapp and his cohorts are about the farthest thing possible from 'christian', but then most that claim to be 'christian' do not follow christ's teachings...

I have no idea who you are but I finally found someone that THINKS like I do or even at all. You live in reality and that is difficult to find. You understand that words have meaning and the difference between a magical thought and reality. The direct and logical way you not only express those thoughts but stand your ground tells me that you have integrity at all thought levels.

I have searched the web for such a creature that has the same interests and thought processes as myself and had all but given up.

WilbyInebriated, if you would be willing to be my lord and savior, I would be honored.  ;D

Sorry I gushed out my emotions there but just needed to take a moment to worship quite possibly the only other sane human on Earth.

PS - Are you hiring disciples? You do have a book deal yet? Christ didn't get a book deal until several hundred years after his death and it was written by people that had never met him and then edited thousands of times by people that had never met the writers.

If you look at a King James bible written prior to circa 1930 you will find the line - "five Gods came together and created man". Five ET species and all the evidence is in your DNA. Your DNA is more simple than a blade of grass or a fly but then it was custom engineered by the Gods.

Iconically, Thrapp is showing the skeletal remains of the giants that once roamed the Earth. Maybe he gets that aspect of creation after all is trying to use religion as a shield from taxes and the man. Regardless, by not sharing his knowledge makes him a capitalist either way. Christ was a communist, born of a virgin implanted by ET. There is a 2000 year old painting in France of Mary holding Jesus with a UFO parked behind her.

The bible is the history of ET creation of the Earth for anyone sane enough to know what they are reading.

Offline icanbeatbob

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Re: Does Anyone Know What's Happened to Dr. Timothy Thrapp & Co?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2010, 02:18:24 AM »
Bob,
I am going to have to agree with Wil on this. Maybe not so strongly, but his rebuttal is certainly logical. Ask anyone why they believe the way they do about religion. My uncle, for instance, is a big christian. He says he believes because it is in the bible. Even though his wife, my aunt, suffers so much with illnesses. She is absolutely the most wonderful, generous, kind, compassionate and caring person one could ever meet. They believe god works in mysterious ways. It is in gods plan. With all do respect, anyone who has faith in any religion that allows the kind of suffering as we see today in many many good people is pretty screwed up.

You found something that made you feel better. You found peace in yourself so you believe and now have faith. I find that once this happens to someone of any religion, it is all but impossible for them to see beyond that, even though there is so much more to see. Faith in religion supposedly opens ones eyes. Faith in something that makes them feel better and has no bearing with reality. For me, I don't need the bible to understand what is right or wrong, good or bad. I knew that when I was 3. Also, I didn't need religion or faith to find myself.

Bob, please do not misunderstand me. I am not attacking. It is good that you found your peace, but to say you found understanding makes little sense. No one can possibly understand what is not understandable. I believe, what you found is something you can comprehend that allows your emotions to change to a state that makes you feel more comfortable. Truth in faith, like Wil said, is a belief, not resting on proof.

I do not condemn or oppose those with religious faith. If it works for you and does not impose on my life, then more power to you. I cannot change your mind because you have faith. Even if I could prove you wrong, your faith and religious beliefs would not allow you to accept it no matter how much proof there was. I sure wish you had some way of convincing me that your way was the right way. I am open to all that wish for others to do better, as long as it is not blind faith.

Regards,
Brad