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Author Topic: Gulf Oil Spill - new record  (Read 30130 times)

Offline sparks

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2010, 01:57:20 AM »
  REsin Rat

     Your right on.  There is plenty of enery scources but not alot of fuels.   The automotive industry and the oil industry appear to be indistinguishable.  One provides the fuel and the other provides the fuel heater uppers.  When I was a kid 30 or more years ago it became apparent to me that the world needed a new fuel.  The only one that has any merit is hydrogen.  But it explodes if there is any spark or anything.  And gasoline doesnt?.  Gasoline will burn on top of water hydrogen goes bam and produces water.  Hydrogen is very light unlike propane which is almost the same densisty as air.  Its going to go straight up and out decreasing the likely hood of dense vapors becoming ignited.  The oil companies could have been supplying us with hydrogen years ago volatile organics are loaded with it.  Thats why the engine runs to begin with.  The carbon is just a way of transporting the hydrogen to the cylinder.  Then we have the dangers involved with storing hydrogen under high pressure and the need to develop new infrastructure to transport it .  Bullshit.
A fuel processor on the front end of a hydrogen powered car or fuel cell powered car could easily seperate the hydrogen from the carbon using a liquid state fuel before it entered the engine.  When you stop to fill up you dump the seperated carbon and take on the hydrogen rich carbon.  You still have as much punch per pound and no reason to change anything but the engine.  This cuts the oil drillers out of the action all together  as their exploitation has left us with plenty of carbon on the surface.  This mixed with the hydrogen in water in endothermic reactions where thermal activity is available like anywhere it is above absolute zero.  The enriched carbon then supplied by existing distribution systems to the end users.  The automotive industry has gone for the carbon lithium battery which is a good thing in and of itself.  The problem is the grid is barely supplying the needs of the population now.  How bout when millions of cars are plugged in all at once when people arrive home and the batteries charge up fast.  Ten million vehicles hitting the grid all at once pulling serveral hundred killowatts each is going to be a nightmare for the utilities.  The simple addition of chemical reactors in the vehicles and in the fueling station is a baby step towards a pollution free fuel.

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2010, 01:57:20 AM »

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2010, 02:03:57 AM »
I work as a Polymer Research Chemist and earn an above average income. I looked into SHARP solar panels on my house to try and offset some of my energy usage. The cost was ridiculous. Even I couldn't afford it. It would have taken more than 27 years to break even, and the panels were only advertised to have a working life of 25 years. That was a system tied to the grid without a battery. The battery system was even more expensive. I also looked into wind turbines, and the cost was too expensive for the dinky output these things put out.

Please show me what system you are using. If you have more affordable system of solar panels that don't take over twenty years to get your money back then please show me. You also need to understand that the majority of people are not do-it-yourselfers. They need to buy systems that are commercially built, have safety systems built in, and can competently handle large wattages. Not a home built, thrown together system. Most people will not use such a system for fear of mistakes, chance of fire, etc. They want commercially available, warrenteed systems.

You also are taking my first statement as a personal attack on you. It was not. It was not a quote of what you wrote, it was a general statement, which is true. Solar and wind cannot provide all the needs for our society. If you are implying that you only meant for powering electric cars then that is clear. My statement is unrelated to what you wrote.

I am not your enemy, only an average United States Citizen who is trying to get by in a rotten economy and a rotten job market.


Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2010, 02:24:28 AM »
I work as a Polymer Research Chemist and earn an above average income. I looked into SHARP solar panels on my house to try and offset some of my energy usage. The cost was ridiculous. Even I couldn't afford it. It would have taken more than 27 years to break even, and the panels were only advertised to have a working life of 25 years. That was a system tied to the grid without a battery. The battery system was even more expensive. I also looked into wind turbines, and the cost was too expensive for the dinky output these things put out.
is your house built AND positioned in a way to best utilize the sun's energy? or are you just making more excuses for lazy convenience...
your sincerity seems suspect when i read posts of yours like this one:
Be careful with the Acetone. I tried this with my PT-Cruiser. It has a high-output turbo engine and normally gets crappy mileage. I am lucky if I achieve 19 miles/gallon on the highway. (Why do I drive it? I love the 220 -hp output of the engine on that small car. It throws me back in my seat and gets me merged on the 70 mph highway is seconds. It's great at stoplights and surprises laughing potential victims. I love it too much to give it up right now.)

You also need to understand that the majority of people are not do-it-yourselfers. They need to buy systems that are commercially built, have safety systems built in, and can competently handle large wattages. Not a home built, thrown together system. Most people will not use such a system for fear of mistakes, chance of fire, etc. They want commercially available, warrenteed systems.
in otherwords you are saying most people are too lazy to learn and get out there and do it themselves and are instead dependant upon someone else to provide them with their wants... more excuses for lazy convenience. not my problem, and again confusion over wants and needs... ::)

You also are taking my first statement as a personal attack on you. It was not. It was not a quote of what you wrote, it was a general statement, which is true. Solar and wind cannot provide all the needs for our society. If you are implying that you only meant for powering electric cars then that is clear. My statement is unrelated to what you wrote.
no i'm not. i took it as a logical fallacy, which is what it is when you pervert someones statement:

from your beloved wiki...
"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

   1. Person A has position X. person A would be me saying vehicles could and should be EV's and solar charged, which is position X.
   2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X). person B would be you inferring/implying that i meant "all energy from solar and wind" which is position Y.
   3. Person B attacks position Y. person B would be you. Y is your distorted version of what i ACTUALLY said.
   4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
"


I am not your enemy, only an average United States Citizen who is trying to get by in a rotten economy and a rotten job market.
i never said you were, being addicted to lazy convenience as you are doesn't make you my enemy...
« Last Edit: July 09, 2010, 04:13:29 AM by WilbyInebriated »

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2010, 02:24:28 AM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2010, 02:42:47 AM »
is your house built AND positioned in a way to best utilize the sun's energy? or are you just making more excuses for lazy convenience...
My house is in a very good position for solar panels. It has a large surface area on the south side of the house. Position was not the problem, it was the cost.

in otherwords you are saying most people are too lazy to learn and get out there and do it themselves and are instead dependant upon someone else to provide them with their wants... more excuses for lazy convenience. not my problem, and again confusion over wants and needs... ::)

People are not too lazy, they just realize they do not have the knowledge, skill, intelligence, and ability to tackle such projects. I wouldn't trust myself to do it. That is why everyone has a profession and other people pay you to do that profession. I wouldn't put up a solar panel for many reasons. I don't think I could do it safely; but I can design and cook polymers at high temperatures and pressures with confidence. That's what I get paid for. That's what I was educated to do; and people pay me to do it who can't do my job. That's not them being lazy. That is the reality of life. Few people can do everything. You are being very cruel and unreasonable.

no i'm not. i took it as a logical fallacy, which is what it is when you pervert someones statement:

from your beloved wiki...
"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

   1. Person A has position X. person A would be me saying vehicles could and should be EV's and solar charged, which is position X.
   2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X). person B would be you inferring/implying that i meant "all energy from solar and wind" which is position Y.
   3. Person B attacks position Y. person B would be you. Y is your distorted version of what i ACTUALLY said.
   4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.
"

i never said you were, being addicted to lazy convenience as you are doesn't make you my enemy...
I repeat, I was not attacking you personally. You are wrong.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2010, 02:50:53 AM »
My house is in a very good position for solar panels. It has a large surface area on the south side of the house. Position was not the problem, it was the cost.
i didn't ask if it was in a good position to use solar panels, i asked if it was "built AND positioned in a way to best utilize the sun's energy." there is a not so subtle difference. if your house was positioned to not heat up via the sun in the summer and to heat up via the sun in the winter, that in and of itself would reduce your energy usage greatly.

People are not too lazy, they just realize they do not have the knowledge, skill, intelligence, and ability to tackle such projects. I wouldn't trust myself to do it. That is why everyone has a profession and other people pay you to do that profession. I wouldn't put up a solar panel for many reasons. I don't think I could do it safely; but I can design and cook polymers at high temperatures and pressures with confidence. That's what I get paid for. That's what I was educated to do; and people pay me to do it who can't do my job. That's not them being lazy. That is the reality of life. Few people can do everything. You are being very cruel and unreasonable.
I repeat, I was not attacking you personally. You are wrong.
people who choose not to learn are lazy... if you don't have the knowledge, skill or ability, learn. whining about it won't change a thing. everyone has a profession because hardly anyone bothers to learn how to be indepedant anymore. they CHOOSE to be dependant on others and rationalize it away. maybe i am being cruel, logic often appears to be cold and cruel, but the only one being unreasonable is you. logical fallacies as arguments are hardly considered 'reasonable'.
i repeat, i DID NOT take it as a personal attack, i took it for what it was, a strawman argument.

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2010, 02:50:53 AM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2010, 03:13:55 AM »
     To get back to the subject of the thread.  Why are they drilling these relief wells  The official BP spokesman says that it is better to inject the mud at the bottom of the well.  Then why dont you put a frigging pipe down the well that is all screwed up and inject the mud at the bottom of the well. If you can thread a pipe through the Earth and meet up at a point several miles away you should be able to slide a small pipe inside a bigger pipe. 

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2010, 03:42:42 AM »
     To get back to the subject of the thread.  Why are they drilling these relief wells
not quite sure the relief wells were the subject of the thread, but it's to get you the oil you 'need' so badly... at least till you get your hydrogen car working. my solar powered electric vehicle works great by the way, do let us know when your H car is done. ;)

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2010, 03:42:42 AM »
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Offline MrMag

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2010, 06:54:11 AM »
     To get back to the subject of the thread.  Why are they drilling these relief wells  The official BP spokesman says that it is better to inject the mud at the bottom of the well.  Then why dont you put a frigging pipe down the well that is all screwed up and inject the mud at the bottom of the well. If you can thread a pipe through the Earth and meet up at a point several miles away you should be able to slide a small pipe inside a bigger pipe.

Relief wells are the way they stopped the last one 30 some years ago. They will take the pressure away from the main line so that they will be able to cap it.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2010, 08:01:49 AM »
i assume you are referring to the pemex blowout in 1979? i guess we can only hope these relief wells won't take 9 months like it did back in '79!
you really don't think they are going plug it do you? they are of course planning to use the relief wells to tap the original reservoir...

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2010, 08:01:49 AM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #84 on: July 10, 2010, 02:04:39 AM »
  The other thing I cant understand isnt there more than one conduit out of this well head.  Why hasnt the damaged riser pipe been replaced with a new riser.    The way the casings are designed is they get weaker and larger as they go up.  They rely on the frictional losses in the lower sections or pressure drop through the point and lower sections.  They hit a pressure way beyond the design parameters of the well and blew out all the mud and ruptured the casing.  But no one is talking.  If that casing ruptured that means there is now a conduit into less dense strata and impregnating this strata with pressurized oil and all the rest of the poisons associated with volatile organics.  Some reports of doming of the seabed floor are circulating along with plumes miles away from the well head.   I believe that is why the wells being drilled are being drilled at an angle.  If they drill too close to the casing rupture the relief wells will start spewing.  Why angle a well in like that unless you are trying to avoid a problem area?  If they have a ruptured casing or buckled or whatever why not come clean with it.

Offline WattBuilder

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2010, 09:04:31 PM »

Here’s something I came up with that might work?
The device uses super magnets and the leak’s own fluid pressure to seal and cap the pipe, then to fallow with cement pour into the pipe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wF3Wx9ZxLw   

Howard Yu
 


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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #85 on: July 10, 2010, 09:04:31 PM »
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Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #87 on: July 13, 2010, 01:31:00 AM »
Here you can see all of BP's feeds at once.

http://www.bp.com/sectionbodycopy.do?categoryId=9034366&contentId=7063636

It's like watching something out of Starwars - with fancy Droids.

Offline the_big_m_in_ok

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #88 on: July 13, 2010, 05:04:27 AM »
Here you can see all of BP's feeds at once.

http://www.bp.com/sectionbodycopy.do?categoryId=9034366&contentId=7063636

It's like watching something out of Starwars - with fancy Droids.
Okay, BP got the new cap attached.  They still have to test it under pressure and see if it works right.  Oil is still gushing from the top, so they're still "on the hook" to everyone for this fiasco.

Let's see what happens in a day or two.

--Lee

Offline ResinRat2

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Re: Gulf Oil Spill - new record
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2010, 11:27:11 PM »
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/15/bp-begins-critical-pressure-test-new-cap-oil/

Oil leak STOPPED -- for now.

We'll see what happens.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=2012968&contentId=7063770

Could last a day or two per tests. Maybe longer.

At least it is stopped for now.

 

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