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Author Topic: Inductive Kicker or Bug?  (Read 10698 times)

DreamThinkBuild

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Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« on: April 28, 2010, 12:29:56 AM »
Hi all,

I didn't know where to put this. I've been playing around with "Circuit Simulator", trying to make an inductive current amplifier. The circuit is quite simple, however after setting another inductor as a load it kicks itself. I need verification that this is just a bug because it doesn't seem like the 5v input will generate a run-away voltage like this. It builds up to 11Kv (11.32Kv*126.63ma=1.43Kw) before it stops the program. Also if someone has another simulator program to verify it (Spice, Multisim, etc) that would be great.

I've attached the circuit (ikick.txt) which can be imported at:
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/index.html

Thanks for any insight into this.
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otto

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2010, 06:50:09 AM »
Hello all,

@DTB - to make it short

Is this a invertor in the schematic??

Otto
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EMdevices

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2010, 07:02:25 AM »
This is a boost converter with another inductor as the load.

You do know what an inductor behaves like right?    It opposes instant current changes so voltage would be HUGE!!!

EM
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innovation_station

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2010, 07:04:44 AM »
Quote from: EMdevices on April 28, 2010, 07:02:25 AM
This is a boost converter with another inductor as the load.

You do know what an inductor behaves like right?    It opposes instant current changes so voltage would be HUGE!!!

EM

SO EM ..   my large inductor of 5.15 henries and a aa battery .. what will the voltage be .. not kicking its self ...  simply pulsed ..  when 5.15 henries colapsed what is the output ...  ill tell ya right now that .5 henries colapsed hurt ! and was way off my scope ...  well over 1000v ALL WIRES ..
and my battery was really weak   
try it think im kidding ?

ist !
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EMdevices

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2010, 07:15:13 AM »
I believe you IST,  you can step the voltage up quite a bit with an inductor, even from an almost depleted 1.2 V AA battery.

EM
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innovation_station

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2010, 07:23:06 AM »
Quote from: EMdevices on April 28, 2010, 07:15:13 AM
I believe you IST,  you can step the voltage up quite a bit with an inductor, even from an almost depleted 1.2 V AA battery.

EM

thank you !

please anyone that trys this be carefull ! 

it bites bad !

ist
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DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2010, 05:47:10 PM »
Hi All,

@Otto, There is a digital inverter on the 2nd switch. First switch on 95% to charge main inductor and 5% on Second switch to dump into second inductor.

@EMdevices, This only works with analog switches. Put in a digital or mosfet switching and it doesn't work, you'll get maybe a 17-20v pk which would be normal for a boost. Maybe the sim is calculating transients with mechanical switching(?). The circuit I've been toying with is to charge a multitap inductor in series(mutual inductance) where each tap has a reduced inductance. Switch them down sequentially at high speed in parallel so that the field collapses down to reduced inductance, creating a large output which can be used for water heating. The input would be driven with solar panels (225watts) since that is the closest thing I have to free power when the sun is out.

@IST, This will work with a 30mv seed voltage at a lower output(according to sim) so an AA would have no problem. The analog switching would probably kill any gains though.
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innovation_station

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2010, 12:12:22 AM »
Quote from: DreamThinkBuild on April 28, 2010, 05:47:10 PM
Hi All,

@Otto, There is a digital inverter on the 2nd switch. First switch on 95% to charge main inductor and 5% on Second switch to dump into second inductor.

@EMdevices, This only works with analog switches. Put in a digital or mosfet switching and it doesn't work, you'll get maybe a 17-20v pk which would be normal for a boost. Maybe the sim is calculating transients with mechanical switching(?). The circuit I've been toying with is to charge a multitap inductor in series(mutual inductance) where each tap has a reduced inductance. Switch them down sequentially at high speed in parallel so that the field collapses down to reduced inductance, creating a large output which can be used for water heating. The input would be driven with solar panels (225watts) since that is the closest thing I have to free power when the sun is out.

@IST, This will work with a 30mv seed voltage at a lower output(according to sim) so an AA would have no problem. The analog switching would probably kill any gains though.

i agree unless you have a good cheep way to switch it high speed mechanical .. : )

i may have a method or 2  lol

ist

aswell if you used the rotation to move air and plunked a wind tunnel a top it .. you can grab from the moveing air too ...  maybe a few computer fans ..

i have built and showen public a VERRY LARGE COIL  built like i have explained for a huge pulse motor  infact i built 2 of them  bout 10 lbs each coil ..  i have a verry large axel and bearing set and i have collected many microwave magnets to place on the rotor ..  the mini stack can drive the motor generator  and it will turn a FEW 12VDC ALTONATORS .. as well as all the other methods for generating large volumes of current !
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 04:06:32 AM by innovation_station »
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DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2010, 07:47:43 PM »
Hi All,

Here is just a simple modification to the last circuit to keep the kicker energized I put in a 10nf cap. Now the sim just shows it go up(and up) over 50KW before it stops.
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giantkiller

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2010, 09:30:37 PM »
I will proto this up in the near future, power with a Jule thief, and definately check this out.
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e2matrix

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2010, 10:27:48 PM »
Seems like it would be fairly easy to build this or something close to it.  Maybe just give it a real world try.  I was going to try testing it in LT Spice but it doesn't seem to have an import ability.  I may have another proggy that will do it - I guess the kick.txt file is what you would import? 
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innovation_station

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2010, 10:39:00 PM »
you can always go optical switching but 5v is needed .. so you could use a jt and a led reciever on the fet but you may find a crystal diode is needed to get 5 v to fire the fet  but then you just turn the jt or MOVE THE MAGNET ON THE IST WJT TRANSFORMER 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf2_mUt29LI

IST

 
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Sprocket

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 06:10:31 AM »
@DreamThinkBuild - Hi.  Interesting circuit, never came across it till now.  I'm confused as to what your switches are!  I had a go simulating with Spice, trying both reed switches & mosfets.  Reeds were a no go, mosfets returned something reasonable when I modify the circuit a bit, (smaller inductor, bigger cap.) giving about 800V.  No run-away effect like you're seeing!  My effort isn't overly convincing though - selecting generic components rather than specific values like I've done returns something completely different!  Anyway, fun to play with.  I may even have a go at building it...

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otto

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 06:45:04 AM »
Hello all,

nice work here.

Maybe you should change the 7404 with a 40XX IC so you can use a 9V battery or even a 12V car battery? Just a guess.

Otto
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innovation_station

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Re: Inductive Kicker or Bug?
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 01:55:08 PM »
Quote from: otto on April 30, 2010, 06:45:04 AM
Hello all,

nice work here.

Maybe you should change the 7404 with a 40XX IC so you can use a 9V battery or even a 12V car battery? Just a guess.

Otto

maybe you use a atmega or atmel  8515 : )  and program the damm thing ...  hummmmmmmm

ever hack free tv ? 

: )

ist!

8515 is a 40 pin dip ... lol  they make smaller ones for those that dont know it is a programable  microcontroller

some are made hardned !  hummmm still it is a waste of time as i can do it with out junk spark gap the flb

get rid of the diodes you will blow them ..  i lit 60 watt bubls from neo zapping alone and low self inductance . coils so do it right ... DROP THE 9VDC AND THE 12VDC ... AND MAKE IT RUN ON A WATCH BATTERY .....

HUMMMMMM

its all so simple ..  use the watch battery to make the large kick .. from the several henry coils .. use the returned kick to power the low inductance coil then neo zap it .. then load it ..

and it is then posibale  to start the coil with only the swipe of a magnet .. and a starter coil insted of the battery ..

where is the FROG NOW TO TELL THE WORLD THIS IS HIS WORK !!!!

I THOUGH SO .... 

LITTLE FAG HE IS ...    TRY AND TAKE MY HAT !

nuttin on the top but a bucket and a mop .. and an ILISTRATED BOOK ABOUT BIRDS ...  see a lot up there but dont be scared WHO NEEDS ACTION WHEN I GOT MY WORDS !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7RbCyxU_Uc

HORUS!
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 02:44:49 PM by innovation_station »
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