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Author Topic: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !  (Read 284965 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #180 on: April 30, 2010, 05:58:17 PM »
That would be true as long as we have the technology. Just building something doesn't mean we have it. There are strict scientific requirements to determine its reality and that's not the market, individual or dominant, that determines it. OU will win if those who have succeeded make it so that thousands of replicators produce it just to show that is works, not for the purposes of selling it to anybody. That's the only way to put the powers that be in the corner -- by not playing their market game (market belongs to them 100%) but by overwhelming them with facts they can't deny and suppress.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #180 on: April 30, 2010, 05:58:17 PM »

Offline the badger

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #181 on: April 30, 2010, 06:13:06 PM »
To the gentlemen who are working on this project I say this. Keep doing what you are doing. Don't waste your time and energy on all the calorimetric testing, university crap just to satisfy people on this forum. If they want that done then tell them to get off their butts and do it themselves. They obviously have time to do it as they spend hours typing on this forum. Just use what you have and refine it. Keeping it a cheap backyard experiment will ensure that others will be able to afford to replicate it. Once it is working good share it with us. The governments and oil companies will ensure that this never becomes a commercial success. Hard to suppress it if everyone is building their own.

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #182 on: April 30, 2010, 06:17:14 PM »
Quote from: Omnibus link=topic=9099.msg239712#msg239712 A=1272638832
Of course, that's the case. We are arguing about the method of establishing the new truth and I'm saying market isn't the criterion. There are firmly established scientific criteria for establishing novelty in science let alone novelty of such significance as the one we're discussing. Market, products and the like should be left alone for the time being and focus should be on the scientific research and its criteria to find out if what's being claimed is real.

We have already established that to do the research will cost lots of money that is not currently available.

How does one get funds to do the research?
1. Sell products.
2. Ask for free money from someone.
3. Save funds from your "day job."

#1 above is the quickest way to get funds, ask Microsoft how they did it  ;)
#2 is difficult in this recession economy.
#3 can take months to years to save enough funds.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #182 on: April 30, 2010, 06:17:14 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #183 on: April 30, 2010, 06:19:48 PM »
To the gentlemen who are working on this project I say this. Keep doing what you are doing. Don't waste your time and energy on all the calorimetric testing, university crap just to satisfy people on this forum. If they want that done then tell them to get off their butts and do it themselves. They obviously have time to do it as they spend hours typing on this forum. Just use what you have and refine it. Keeping it a cheap backyard experiment will ensure that others will be able to afford to replicate it. Once it is working good share it with us. The governments and oil companies will ensure that this never becomes a commercial success. Hard to suppress it if everyone is building their own.

Everyone here, even those with a lot of time on their hands, agreed that having a reproducible, stable self-sustaining device is the best thing to happen. It hasn't happened yet, unfortunately. Now, what do we do if a self-sustaining device isn't achieved by the gentlemen, then what do we do? Shall we abandon the experiments or we should do calorimetric measurements and should study this further to understand if it's a real phenomenon or not? What do we do in such a case?

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #184 on: April 30, 2010, 06:31:44 PM »
We have already established that to do the research will cost lots of money that is not currently available.

How does one get funds to do the research?
1. Sell products.
2. Ask for free money from someone.
3. Save funds from your "day job."

#1 above is the quickest way to get funds, ask Microsoft how they did it  ;)
#2 is difficult in this recession economy.
#3 can take months to years to save enough funds.

Microsoft isn't a good example. Theirs was already known to be real -- they (Gates and Allen) were even employed by someone in Albuquerque who was already selling desktop computers with an operating system prior to any Microsoft in the horizon. Here we don't have any tangible marketable product made let alone convincing scientific proof for most of the claims.

The only way is to use your own money. If you can't afford it, too bad. We're living in a cruel world if you haven't noticed it. This is a very specific area of research and if you don't know and/or don't have the inclination to finagle (to spare the word lie) with investors giving them the impression there will (soon) be a product that will change the world and in the meantime they will get a return on their investment, forget that way of funding. Governmental funding you might as well forget about form the get go. I wonder if you remember Gene, Ed Storms and Randy appearing before congress and that hot fusion person making faces behind their back. Forget it. Use your own money, no other way.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #184 on: April 30, 2010, 06:31:44 PM »
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Offline the badger

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #185 on: April 30, 2010, 06:36:46 PM »
These gentlemen don't have to prove anything to anyone. They don't owe us a thing. It is nice of them to share what they are doing and keeping us informed. If they get it self running so that it stays running and it gives more, then it is OU. That's all the proof anyone should need. Anything else is a waste of time that can be left to the science community.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #186 on: April 30, 2010, 06:39:19 PM »
The great discoveries in science were either made by people who were independently wealthy or were talents plucked out from the crowd and supported by the powers that be when what they were doing was in the interest of the military or the overall standing of the nation. OU isn't that kind of a thing and official support cannot be expected but an independently wealthy cannot be prevented (up to a point) from exploring it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #186 on: April 30, 2010, 06:39:19 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #187 on: April 30, 2010, 06:52:48 PM »
These gentlemen don't have to prove anything to anyone. They don't owe us a thing. It is nice of them to share what they are doing and keeping us informed. If they get it self running so that it stays running and it gives more, then it is OU. That's all the proof anyone should need. Anything else is a waste of time that can be left to the science community.

If we agree to that we would agree to condone just anything perpetrated over the internet. People have responsibilities, though. Even the anonymous users of the internet do. That's the elementary human ethics of a civilized society. So, yes they owe us an explanation once they have placed it to be observed and discussed publicly. Otherwise the society will turn into a jungle.

Further, if their effort to build a self-sustaining device turns out to be unsuccessful (hope that won't turn out be the case) that will not be the end of the research in this area. The end of the research in this area can only be brought about by careful in-depth scientific exploration of the purported phenomenon. And, in the case of current self-running trial turning unsuccessful but the scientific research reveling it's a real phenomenon then further, more sophisticated efforts will inevitably bring about a self-sustaining technology. Rigorous scientific research is inevitable in these matters and trying to find a shortcut doesn't work overwhelmingly, history tells us.

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2010, 07:20:22 PM »
These gentlemen don't have to prove anything to anyone. They don't owe us a thing. It is nice of them to share what they are doing and keeping us informed. If they get it self running so that it stays running and it gives more, then it is OU. That's all the proof anyone should need. Anything else is a waste of time that can be left to the science community.

I agree.  "build it and they will come" is my motto  ;)

Now if they can make it work stable, get a gas regulator on the input, I would like to buy a unit from them, or if it is too expensive (euro is expensive) then make my own unit if possible.

Not everyone will buy the newest invention. Some will wait for more scientific proof. Some will wait years before buying anything that does not have a long history or "track record" of sucess and have years of warranties guarantees.

Not me, I want to get "off the electric grid" and make my own electricity, as the rates are rising every year!

Oliver & Valentin, just make it work with what you have, show a video, document your existing setup so other researchers can replicate and verify that it works.

The Anton cell is not cheap so not many researchers will be able to afford to build a unit right now.  But some will have the funds to try to replicate  ;)

Regards, Mike R.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #188 on: April 30, 2010, 07:20:22 PM »
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Offline briansahern

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #189 on: April 30, 2010, 07:43:58 PM »
One cannot pull off the Yul Brown tricks with other fuels, because they produce a non-condensable gas (CO2). This will not condense into a liquid like the hydrogen gas does under properly controlled conditions.

People are generally unfamiliar with combustion with stoichiometric mixtures of H2 and O2 and for good reasons. They would generally  take themselves out of Darwinian selection when a large volume of the gas was inadvertently collected.

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #190 on: April 30, 2010, 08:41:43 PM »
One cannot pull off the Yul Brown tricks with other A, because they produce a non-condensable gas (CO2). This will not condense into a liquid like the hydrogen gas does under properly controlled conditions.

People are generally unfamiliar with combustion with stoichiometric mixtures of H2 and O2 and for good reasons. They would generally  take themselves out of Darwinian selection when a large volume of the gas was inadvertently collected.

Yeah, Yull Brown showed that intereesting property of 100% HHO in one of his video demonstrations, that a combustion of stoichiometric mixtures of H2 and O2, you get a VACUUM as the gas returned to liquid water. 

Now if you mix HHO with air, up to 130 to 1 lean air/fuel ratio (such as used to fuel engines), then you get explosive energy release upon spark ignition.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #190 on: April 30, 2010, 08:41:43 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #191 on: April 30, 2010, 08:50:07 PM »

These gentlemen don't have to prove anything to anyone. They don't owe us a thing. It is nice of them to share what they are doing and keeping us informed. If they get it self running so that it stays running and it gives more, then it is OU. That's all the proof anyone should need. Anything else is a waste of time that can be left to the science community.


Truly they don't owe us anything. But logic dictates a path that should not be
so hard to follow. But like the Tilly affair, these people often don't seem to behave
logically.  And then the gaps in their systemic knowledge start to show up, and
soon they are accused of fraud.

I think anyone wanting to sell equipment should start out like Anton, then shift to a
logical basis so that those in the field understand their intent, and Anton still might
behave this way, we don't know. I'm not sure why their equipment is as expensive
as Omnibus says it is, it actually look pretty simple, but well designed. Also I don't
know if anyone noticed, but they could make hydrogen fuel-cells in a very similar
manner. But they may be too busy trying to eat everyone elses lunches to to see
this.

The problem is that in the real word CF energy actually vests twice. Once
as HHO gain and once as Plasma gains due to the recycled exhaust H2O.
The two stage gains multiply so as to become visible. The trick is to recognize
the HHO gain before the complexity of the situation also multiplies and parameter
control is lost.

I am afraid that the best we can hope for is someone who knows they have
electrolyser gain sees the Anton approach and actually wants to sell product,
repeats it, but does so with a provable video.

In the instance of the personal computer industry there is a difference;
In the computer industry both the hardware performance was/is new but
the software capabilities are/were also new. In the energy industry only
the hardware is new, we all know precisely what we will be doing with it.
 
:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #192 on: April 30, 2010, 08:55:44 PM »
See, one of their simpler cells sells for over a thousand dollars. That's expensive if one is to only explore their claim. At least there should be a good reason to do so. So far I don't see one in strictly scientific terms. Just a video with claims for self-sustaining run isn't enough. We've seen a lot of videos. Where will we end up if we're to buy  for a thousand dollars the equipment shown in every video?

Offline mscoffman

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #193 on: April 30, 2010, 09:00:57 PM »
@All

With (HHO or hydrogen) + air.  The pollution called NOx is still produced
during combustion. I guess is another good reason to discharge the exhaust
gas to the atmosphere.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #194 on: April 30, 2010, 09:16:15 PM »
Quote
The pollution called NOx is still produced
during combustion.

Do you have any hard data to back this up?

 

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