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Author Topic: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !  (Read 306065 times)

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2010, 09:54:56 AM »
Hi!

To stop all the wild guesses about this topic I just want to write some lines.

The DryCells used are the ANTON Cells. The cells are an open source project.
The engine is a 4 stroke 1 cylinder 80 ccm gasoline engine (2.8 hp, 1000 Watt max from the generator) adapted to oxyhydrogen by ourself.
The ignition is also selfmade with parts from the junk yard. No wasted spark and the timing can be changed. No plasma spark.
The engine runs with a HHO and air mix. The HHO from the ANTON cells goes through a bubbler and a backflash-arrestor as you can see in my videos.
 

With the ANTON cells we had no problems at all.
But there are some problems with the controll of the small engine:
The engine is small and has insufficient flywheel mass so it is very "nervous".
Due to the backflash-arrestor we always have a little bit preassure in the cell and the bubbler. So it takes a few seconds if we adjust the current.
The ratio of the HHO and the air must always be correct and must be adjusted by hand.
The original speed controller of the engine can not be used, because we removed the leverage and the carburetor.
And so on...

Here are our original videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrEntelecheia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6bw0dlxDnQ&feature=related

Here we used 3 ANTON cells with 21 electrodes each. We used about 800 - 900 Watt from the power supply (pulsating DC at 100 Hz). The electrolyte concentration is about 3% KOH.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ9azEA54Q8

In this video I am not sure if the display of the voltage and the current is correct. Because of the controll problems with the engine (the rpm goes up and down) we are not able to deliver constant 230 V at 50 Hz (standard in Germany) to the electronic power supply all the time.


So as you can see, we had a great success    ;D    but there is still a lot of work to do. So please don't be too euphoric.
Now we need a better engine and good control circuits to get it running stable to do exact measurements.

If there are some important news I will post it here.
But it can take some time and we have a very limited budget. I am sorry about that.

Cheers!

Valentin

Hi Valentin,

Thank you very much for posting your video's and describing your design of your VERY interesting experiments!

Do you have a Paypal account so other researchers can Donate to you funds so you can continue your experiments?

We all look forward to your experiments with HHO + N2 + O2 (air) to fuel a engine generator set!

Best regards, Mike R.

p.s. if possible could you try a HV coil like:
60kv coils from www.summittracing.com for about $30
the part # SUM-G5220   
60,000v ignition coil
coil resistance: 1200 ohms
external ballast resistor: 1.5 ohms


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #90 on: April 26, 2010, 09:54:56 AM »

Offline tagor

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #91 on: April 26, 2010, 10:23:08 AM »

But yes. It is a  "breakthrough" .
because so far nobody has yet demonstrated as far as I know
a motor-generator, that was loaded with its
maximum rating power of the  generator (1kW in this case).
hi , Stepan
yes the french Mirabella has done it with his motor/generator and 80% water
look at the french Nexus
 
http://www.econologie.com/forums/album_page.php?pic_id=564
http://www.econologie.com/forums/album_page.php?pic_id=565
http://www.econologie.com/forums/album_page.php?pic_id=566
 
the were a demo in paris last year with press and official representative of university
CERNTEA ( patnership of french panacea ) has to do independant verification on this claim
you can go to see him , it is south of france , way to go to spain ...
 
http://cerntea.canalblog.com/archives/2010/02/26/17059117.html

Offline sushimoto

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2010, 11:02:05 AM »
Hello Folks,

This is probably the right time to consolidate
and to bring the puzzle together:

NH3, HHO, SPAD/Geet, ionization and Robert Krupa's Firestorm Spark Plugs.

best,
sushi

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #92 on: April 26, 2010, 11:02:05 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #93 on: April 26, 2010, 12:26:38 PM »

If exhaust is going back into the engine, as with Paul Pantone's 'Geet' system, then there is a reactor/transmutation type effect at work here.

Pantone has noted some unexpected strange properties in his "reactor rods" due to the 'Geet' process.

Regards...


Offline tagor

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2010, 12:56:15 PM »
If exhaust is going back into the engine, as with Paul Pantone's 'Geet' system, then there is a reactor/transmutation type effect at work here.

Pantone has noted some unexpected strange properties in his "reactor rods" due to the 'Geet' process.

Regards...

yes Mirabella can do it , it is a pantone likes
he said that , when the reactor is hot , the motor cans run with water only

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #94 on: April 26, 2010, 12:56:15 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ramset

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #95 on: April 26, 2010, 01:42:20 PM »
Valentin
Quote:
But it can take some time and we have a very limited budget. I am sorry about that.
------------------------------
Can those of us that wish to, "donate" to your work?
You come highly recommended and your goals of finding an alternate sustainable energy source are what this is all about!
  No reason to waste time because of finance,you are sharing all. I am willing to donate what ever I can afford to
your research

Paypal??

Chet

 

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2010, 03:37:50 PM »
Hi Valentin,

Thanks for coming to this forum. Very nice work. Wish you all the success. You deserve it.

Can you please explain what the current efficiency was in the video where you were measuring the volume of gas. You might have explained it there but it's in German and couldn't understand what you're saying.

Also, have you done calorimetric measurements of the outcoming gas to see if its enthalpy differs from what's expected? The effect should either be due to a violation of Faraday's law, that is, producing more gram-equivalents of gas than the predicted by the coulombs that have passed through the cell or due to a hitherto undetected higher enthalpy of the obtained gases. This has to be established even prior to getting into the trouble of using it as fuel for a motor-generator. The latter is telling indeed but seems more complicated technically to have the test rigorously done. In a calorimetric test you don't have to rely on cheap Chinese junk and is financially less draining.

Would it be possible to send me a cell to study for a month or two which I'll return to you when finished?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #96 on: April 26, 2010, 03:37:50 PM »
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Offline sushimoto

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #97 on: April 26, 2010, 05:42:10 PM »
Maybe a little hint to the crackheads on the issue?:

One of the cells was filled with UREA in pevious tests of several electrolytes.
One of the other cells was freshly build and the plates where cleaned with acetone.
For the latest setup, all the cells were filled with a 5% KOH solution.

Is it possible, that some remaining N-molecules combined with
nascend hydrogen to  something else like N2H4 for the extra-bang?


Offline ramset

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2010, 07:36:58 PM »
Sushimoto
is this the cell you were working on?[at energetic]
Or do I have you confused with someone else?
[if so my apologies].

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #98 on: April 26, 2010, 07:36:58 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #99 on: April 26, 2010, 08:01:17 PM »
I hate to correct people on terminology but I'll say it for the sake of those who might want to use it correctly -- it's non-stoichiometric and not non-stochastic. Stoichiometry is the proportion set in stone between the moles of reactants and the products given by a chemical (electrochemical) reaction. Stoichiometry is an expression of one of the basic laws of Chemistry -- the law of constant proportions and has nothing to do with stochastics -- the area of mathematics which studies random processes and probabilities therefrom.


You are correct I do projects in both areas and my brain was wired for statistics.

Offline vrand

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2010, 08:21:58 PM »

yes Mirabella can do it , it is a pantone likes
he said that , when the reactor is hot , the motor cans run with water only

Yes, they said that they did run the exhaust back into the intake. No mention if it improved the running of the engine.

This project has been going on since at least January of this year. Its slow going building process to reach this stage yesterday with the video of powering the 1000w loads.

The engine seems to be the limiting factor along with time and money.  The regulation of the HHO +air gases input is the problem, so that the engine runs smoothly. Currently they needed 2 people to run the engine, one to adjust the gas inputs and the other to demonstrate the electrical loading.

Maybe a simple Natural Gas conversion kit that has a gas regulator would work. Or can buy a genset that already has the Natural Gas kit built in:

Triple-Fuel Honda Powered 8,750 Watt w/ Electric Start - Runs on propane, natural gas and gasoline right out of the box! No mechanical alterations are necessary - simply change your fuel source!
http://cgi.ebay.com/Triple-Fuel-Honda-Powered-Generator-w-Electric-Start-/390187050383?cmd=ViewItem&pt=BI_Generators&hash=item5ad8f5e58f

With small engines you still need to advance the ignition timing to TDC and currently there is no units that allow adjustment. Also the removal of the "waste spark" that causes back fire when using HHO. Their setup using a standard car ignition coil, the large and small plastic timing gears and wood lever is one way to adjust the ignition timing and get rid of the waste spark. 

Regards, Mike R. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #100 on: April 26, 2010, 08:21:58 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #101 on: April 26, 2010, 09:17:03 PM »
Here is a video if you are interested in running an internal combustion
engine on hydrogen. What this person does in the video and what they
fellows have done is very similar.

Hydrogen Fuel Engine Fundamentals Parts #1 thru 10 link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo88bRN8vFw

You have got to get to fact that air is not pure oxygen. So the
oxygen and hydrogen to the engine may be in stochiometric quantities
but the mixture is not. The engine is designed to run on fuel air mix
and therefore some air is gated in.

---

The experiment needs to be improved as follows;

a) You need a needle value in the fuel line to act as a throttle. You should
couple the throttle to the Hall Effect switch in a way that controls the RPM
of the motor. This will set the 50 Hertz line frequency correctly in the
generator. The Voltage Regulator in the generator are generally resonant
circuits I think so the frequency instability will negatively affect the voltage
stability.

b)You need a hydrogen accumulator and a pressure sensor that controls
how much energy is being gated to the electrolyser. When the pressure
goes down in the accumulator the electrolyser cells should work harder
the bring it back up. For this control you should use a bulk 40VDC supply
rather than a regulated one so that the output voltage follows input.
If the transformer of the power supply doesn't like continuous TRIAC
controls then try using cycle skipping.

c) You need two Variac's variable AC auto-transformers. These are manually
adjusted to split the generators output power between the load and the
electrolyser. The concept is since P=E*I, as you increase the AC voltage
slightly up or down then the power on that path will follow along. Diesel
Electric Locomotives operate this way (sans hydrogen of course) and use
a variable transformer as a Continuously Variable Transmission.

Of course stabilising the feedback loop will do nothing if the electrolyser is not
producing at least somewhat above Faraday hydrogen and oxygen amounts.
It doesn't, by the way, make sense that non-stochiometric quantities of gas
would come from the electrolyser because the feed chemical is water and
if CF Cold Fusion is source of the excess energy, one is never going to see
reaction products because their quantities is so small.

If you have an option get a "Digital" Generator Set as it has a bunch
of features that would make it easier to control the feedback loop.
It essentially works the way the feedback loop should look!

I hope these fellows go on to improve their demonstration because they
started it. :D  I would rather have self-running proof of overunity energy
with a Carnot perfect gas engine rather than measurements anyhow. So
far what they have looks very good.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline sterlinga

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Feature page for the Self-Looped Anton HHO Cell open source project
« Reply #102 on: April 27, 2010, 05:57:08 AM »
I've created a feature page on this at http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Self-Looped_Anton_HHO_Cell_System

Self-Looped Anton HHO Cell System - Some researchers in Germany, Oliver and Valnetin, have excited the forums with their announcement of being able to self-run a 1000-watt generator from the HHO gas generated from their electrolysis process. So the electrolysis unit produces HHO gas which runs a genset (an engine connected to an alternator that produces electricity), and the electricity produced then runs the electrolysis unit. (PESWiki; April 27, 2010)


Feel free to use this page to organize all the great material coming through this forum.

It's a publicly editable site.  Just log in and edit.

@Stefan, Thanks for all your hard work in posting this info here.

Offline broli

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #103 on: April 27, 2010, 12:28:58 PM »
You shouldn't worry about being limited in resources. Like you mentioned, there are quite some cheap modifications you can still apply to make this cheap inefficient motor more efficient. I also recommend you look into;  Somender Singh's Design to Improve Turbulence in Combustion Chambers by Creating a Vortex. This is a very cheap method of increasing the efficiency of your motor.

As time passes by and more people get into this, the resources will come to you like magic  ;) . In your case the best gift would imo be a Massive Yet Tiny engine.

Keep up the good work guys.

Offline Rapadura

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Re: Breakthrough with the Anton HHO cell !
« Reply #104 on: April 27, 2010, 01:25:28 PM »
Could this cheap chinese motor run for just 30 seconds with the output being used to run the 3 Anton cells and light up a small fluorescent lamp at the same time? That should be overunity.

 

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